some interpretive thoughts

[kabir]

ok, so, i have to say, in context of the whole beginning of this song, considering the MEANING of it all, some words become clearer to me. if you boil each stanza down to one line, essentially it breaks down like this:

living in excess (king, feast, treasures, flesh)
but i'd trade it (wish it all away) to keep you, if i had to.

i was neck-deep in sin & excess, going under.
(great undertow references btw)
but you pulled me out.

so i'd trade it all (for you).

did all these dark things
but i would, if i could, trade it all for you (wish it away)

so if i COULD i'd give it up if keeping it meant i'd lose you
you're my piece of mind, i'm trying to stay sin-free

damn my eyes, fulcrum, Want and Need
--- Need is the "you" he refers to
--- Want is the life of sin and excess
if my eyes (?) lead me astray, i.e. out of balance (compromised fulcrum), if i Need, that would be it for me.
(as it stands, so far the singer doesn't want to trade "you" just to keep the life of sin, but also here seems to suggest that if he keeps only "you" and gives up the life of sin, then he might as well not even be here -- that is, neither solution is a good one. he wants to have his cake and eat it too).


then the whole run of Shine Down on the TWO until they become ONE
-- fix the severed, the broken
-- "divided" equals "withering away"
breathe in union
because as one, you can survive!

after thinking this way, i'm left thinking the words at the end are in fact "Silent legions" - referring to the devil's crew.

so the question is, what are the Two? The Singer vs "You", needing to be united?

or is the Sun's role played by the "You", and the Sun is trying to unite / balance these Two: Want vs Need?


there's a certain heaven vs hell aspect to this that really ties in to Vicarious AND Wings 1 and 2.

[kabir]

well that's why this section of tdn exists - interpretation!

i'm not sure i see father-son as much as i see sinner-savior.
isn't that a line in The Pot as well?

it might point up the larger themes going on on this record. for some reason it still eludes me. the Lateralus theme of division, reunion, etc, i grasped perfectly at once, mostly because i knew a lot more back then about the behind-the-scenes stories.

i like that this song feels so different lyrically than earlier tool.

and no, even on my grad school applications, i didn't use any capital "i" anywhere.

[Oberon]

ok, so, i have to say, in context of the whole beginning of this song, considering the MEANING of it all, some words become clearer to me. if you boil each stanza down to one line, essentially it breaks down like this:

living in excess (king, feast, treasures, flesh)
but i'd trade it (wish it all away) to keep you, if i had to.

i was neck-deep in sin & excess, going under.
(great undertow references btw)
but you pulled me out.

so i'd trade it all (for you).

did all these dark things
but i would, if i could, trade it all for you (wish it away)

so if i COULD i'd give it up if keeping it meant i'd lose you
you're my piece of mind, i'm trying to stay sin-free

damn my eyes, fulcrum, Want and Need
--- Need is the "you" he refers to
--- Want is the life of sin and excess
if my eyes (?) lead me astray, i.e. out of balance (compromised fulcrum), if i Need, that would be it for me.
(as it stands, so far the singer doesn't want to trade "you" just to keep the life of sin, but also here seems to suggest that if he keeps only "you" and gives up the life of sin, then he might as well not even be here -- that is, neither solution is a good one. he wants to have his cake and eat it too).


then the whole run of Shine Down on the TWO until they become ONE
-- fix the severed, the broken
-- "divided" equals "withering away"
breathe in union
because as one, you can survive!

after thinking this way, i'm left thinking the words at the end are in fact "Silent legions" - referring to the devil's crew.

so the question is, what are the Two? The Singer vs "You", needing to be united?

or is the Sun's role played by the "You", and the Sun is trying to unite / balance these Two: Want vs Need?


there's a certain heaven vs hell aspect to this that really ties in to Vicarious AND Wings 1 and 2.


I like the contrast with pushit.

"Slipping back into the gap again.
I'm alive when you're touching me,
Alive when you're shoving me down.

But i'd trade it all
For just a little bit of
Piece of mind."

[Wonko The Sane]

damn my eyes, fulcrum, Want and Need
--- Need is the "you" he refers to
--- Want is the life of sin and excess
if my eyes (?) lead me astray, i.e. out of balance (compromised fulcrum), if i Need, that would be it for me.
(as it stands, so far the singer doesn't want to trade "you" just to keep the life of sin, but also here seems to suggest that if he keeps only "you" and gives up the life of sin, then he might as well not even be here -- that is, neither solution is a good one. he wants to have his cake and eat it too).

then the whole run of Shine Down on the TWO until they become ONE
-- fix the severed, the broken
-- "divided" equals "withering away"
breathe in union
because as one, you can survive!


Yeah, I think the shine down section is the narrator expressing his desire for a kind of alignment of his wants and needs. This would create a kind of wholeness and focused purpose in the narrator. The division of wants and needs is very uncomfortable and seems to be a source of contension and strife for the narrator. I think the silence legions part is kind of a declaration of the narrator aimed at all the forces that would work to divide the narrators needs and wants, that would divide him in two and cause contension.

[njm]

Hey Kabir, thanks for posting your insights. You have opened up this song a lot for me! I haven't examind this song enough to make up my own mind! Does anyone think it is a bad idea for me to accept anothers interpretation as what I get out of the song? I do... but then I like this interpretation!

[holotrope]

Nice thoughts Kabir, you've kind of confirmed my intuition/helped me crystalize my thoughts that this song is about the ancient battle between the active life of experience (which is at least one reason why we're here) which could lead to avarice and hedonism, and the quiet life of contemplation and higher knowledge which could lead to disconnection from the world and squandering the opportunity to have (self-other) experience.

I think this song is all about balance, but the singer feels that if he ended up falling into one extreme, he is more likely to fall down the avaricious path, but if he could forsee that he would rather have the life of contemplation than any of the earthly delights.

This especially makes sense towards the end of the song with the "breathe in union" and the "divided, I'm witherin' away" - the song ends trying to attain the balance and stop either path from becoming all-consuming.

[Eussiah]

so if i COULD i'd give it up

Meaning he can't actually make this trade...

The addition of "if I could" has bothered me while trying to make sense of this.

Who would provide him with piece of mind beyond his treasures? Who would he be afraid of losing? Whose loss would he be unable to trade anything for?

i was neck-deep in sin & excess, going under.
(great undertow references btw)
but you pulled me out.

Someone who saved him? Maybe, someone who "didn't have a life, but surely saved one?"

If connection to other themes on the album is what we're looking for, perhaps...

There does seem to be a dichotomy between his love and respect for his mother, and his inability to agree with her beliefs. Perhaps two things that need to become one. But maybe I'm just seeing this because I have a similar relationship to my own parents.

Maybe this isn't all that the song is about, but maybe on some level of metaphor or influence, the themes of the Wings suite are present here as well.

[foma]

so if i COULD i'd give it up if keeping it meant i'd lose you

And what if 'You' found that the 'Narrator' was insincere and told him to shut up in the last 2 lines?
I can't find any better clues for them (the 2 lines).
I don't think 'silent legions' work, because the way the lines are sung stand way too out of the rest of the song
+
'breathe in union' is rather tired, just as to survive as one at least another day in a tired relationship.
I agree with all the rest, nice work :)

something i thought today was it could be like apc's '3 libras' or 'sleeping beauty' seen from the other side... or something similar to them at least.
ideas?

[ahhnevermind]

I agree completely with the sinner/savior, father/son interpretation. but i cant for the life of me fit in this thought the last two lines. I never heard "silent legions" only "silently just".. still, the end is an enigma.

the whole song feels like a day of clarity/connection/gratuity, lit by a blue sun (drug-induced image, but lingering nonetheless), but the end is without a doubt an absolute storm of selfishness and destruction. This thunder links it's mood with 10,000 days, but the communicated message always gets lost in the storm for me.

thoughts?

[AMF]

Nice thoughts Kabir, you've kind of confirmed my intuition/helped me crystalize my thoughts that this song is about the ancient battle between the active life of experience (which is at least one reason why we're here) which could lead to avarice and hedonism, and the quiet life of contemplation and higher knowledge which could lead to disconnection from the world and squandering the opportunity to have (self-other) experience.

I think this song is all about balance, but the singer feels that if he ended up falling into one extreme, he is more likely to fall down the avaricious path, but if he could forsee that he would rather have the life of contemplation than any of the earthly delights.

This especially makes sense towards the end of the song with the "breathe in union" and the "divided, I'm witherin' away" - the song ends trying to attain the balance and stop either path from becoming all-consuming.

BAM. This is something that affects my life a lot personally....maybe that's why this song is so special to me?

[tabula.rassa]

i see this song as about Devo... really...

i think that this album is unbelieveably personal. there's a lot out there for interpretation, but i think that many of the lyrics are almost literal.

for example: "Judith Marie, unconditional one"... not many ways to misinterpret that...

i wouldnt be surprised to find out that "jambi" may be a nickname for Devo...

...lots of my interpretations have changed over the years tho...



you're my hero Kabir. thanx so much for all you do.


PeAcE...

[transcend187]

I like the clarity of your ideas, Kabir. Nice dissection of the lyrics. I still think they apply primarily to Maynard's son, with secondary connotations for broader ideas. Many of Tool's songs are written about specific ideas, people or incidents, but have a very broad range of application.

By the way.... I prefer not to use his son's name, though I know it, to keep the boy himself out of these discussions. I may have used it on occasion here, but its really not necessary - perhaps even detrimental - to personalize it. I also think the more we use his name, the more we reinforce the illusion that we know Maynard, and that we know his son - something I think is quite problematic.

[EulogyCallinMe]

I posted some of this somewhere else but this is the best i have...yeah i kind of have no freaking idea what this song is about. its probably the most vague thing maynard has written yet.
however i thought that perhaps he was refering to how good he has it vs. his poor mother, and that he'd trade all he has just to have her be healthy is my guess.
at the start of the song it appears as if hes saying that his beliefs and his hedonist pursuits were putting him on the wrong path (or whatever) and was on the verge of swallowing him up completely and that someone, who i am assuming is his mother (the wings tie in), lifted him up out of this way of life and that he'd trade everything he has for her. this is where i got that from:
"Feast like a sultan I do
On treasures and flesh never few...
The Devil and his had me down
In love with the dark side I’d found
Dabbling all the way down
Up to my neck soon to drown
But you changed that all for me"

the "damn my eyes part" im thinking is just him being angry at himself for his own previous actions. remorse and guilt.
towards the end though...the breathe in union and whatever he's saying at the very end doesnt really go along with my little story line. so i have no clue.
but it could be that hes breathing in union with someone of a higher spirit (ie his mom), and IF the lyric is
"silence leech save your poison,
silence leech just stay out of my way"
then that would lead me to believe hes trying to fight off the little demons that are calling him back to hedonism and the darkside if you will.

oh, upon reading the above posts it could be about maynards son, so you can remove his mother from my ideas and replace it with his child. although i dont know what "if i thought tomorrow they'd take you away" part would be about then. well i guess it could be preemptive. it does make sense out of the "benevolent son/sun" part. but im still leaning towards his mom and his expression of the guilt he feels leading the life he did before she left this world.

[imatoolhed]

Here's my thoughts, since this is one of the most stand out traks on the album (imo).
They all are , but this one just grabs me.
All right then ... imagine this if you will. It's about him and his relationship with his mom and her passing. Wishing (jambi grant wish ?) to be with her one more day.
He is the son, And someday they will be together as one. And with it being about the struggle between life and death, Which in the same term as good and evil.


Here from the king's mountain view ( his fame in life )
Here from the wild dream come true
Feast like a sultan I do (money and fame )
On treasures and flesh never few

But I would wish it all away ( give it all up for her, jmk )
If I thought I'd lose you just one day

The devil and his had me down ( again his fame )
In love with the dark side I'd found
Dabblin' all the way down
Up to my neck soon to drown
But you changed that all for me ( her ways of life, may not have agreed but
Lifted me up, turned me 'round ( respected her )

So I, I would wish this all away

Pray like a martyr dusk to dawn (again him)
Beg like a hooker all night long
Tempted the devil with my song
And got what I wanted all along

But I ( now just follow along those lines of thinking ?)
I would
If I could ( I could be wrong here, but i just dont't know.
I wouldn ( It was the first thing that came to me hearing
Wish it away (this one. Even after many listens i feel the same
Wish it away ( There are many great tracks on this one but
Wish it all away ( I hope you hear what i do in this one, imo this
Wanna wish it all away (is a tool masterpiece. )
No pressure could hold sway
Or justify my
Kneeling away, my sinner

So if I could I'd wish it all away
If I thought tomorrow, they'd take you away

You're my piece of mind, my all, my saturn
Just try to hold on
One more day

Damn my eyes
Damn my eyes
Damn my eyes
If they should compromise
<something something> What you need to find me
Then I might as well be gone...

Shine on forever
Shine on benevolent sun
Shine on, upon the broken
Shine until the two become one

Shine on forever
Shine on benevolent sun
Shine on upon the severed
Shine until the two become one

Divide and wither it away (x2) ( die and rot in the ground )

Shine on, upon the many, light our way,
Benevolent sun.

Breathe in union ( in memories of her )

So, as one, survive ( he still alive, she passed )
Another day and season
Silence, leech and save your poison (stop the world from sucking the life out of u)
Silence, leech, and stay out of my way ( gonna live and be strong )


Again i could be wrong, But that's my interpatation.

Beep Beep That's all folks.
_____________

[annie]

i think that the song is about devo (i agree about the name using in a general sense when we are talking about their lives and so on which is a little creepy in and of itself, but i'll drown in pronouns if i don't use their names in this). yeah.

more on that. as kabir put it earlier, maynard seems to be saying that he was saved from drowning, and what came after undertow and before H. (if you interpret H. as i do)?? well, that would have to be devo. fatherhood changed maynard in some way that has also effected his art, hence the song(s).

maynard is worried that his life/job/fame will be bad for devo and his wished he could change things for his son. he is proud of how well his son is doing, and wants him to do well in life (painfully general)

shine on forever
shine on benevolent son

of course, the "sun" interpretation shoots mine in the foot.

so, jambi is a continuation of maynards journey as a father that we saw on undertow (prison sex, dealing with the idea of fathers) H. (dealing with being a father in the face of the abuse he suffered himself) and finally jambi, letting his little boy grow up

[fulmination]

Anyone thought about linking this song with "Right In Two"... Seems the want/need theme could definitely pop up in both songs as well as the "Two" whatever the two may be (aren't we all delving deeper into this atm). "Until the two become one" - "Cut it all right in two]
/ Cutting our love right in two]"... Free will... Must we choose between our seemingly divergent nature or is there a way for the two to become one and if so, what is this way? If there isn't a way, which way do we choose? - "silence leech/legions". I know this is vague, so I apologise. I haven't absorbed Jambi as much as Right In Two yet, so I could be way off.