The Christian "april fools" joke: Real?

[Xeph]

"This little light that you passed onto me, I'm gonna let it shine..."

"It's time now, my time now.. give me my wings."


As much as many people don't want to believe it, it sounds as if Maynard may be getting back to his roots.
I mean seriously, why would one write such obvious and powerful lyrics such as this if he or she is not at least considering such things?
The song is obviously about his mother, but there are more than a couple of references to him acknowledging a "creator" and his want for something more.

It's an obvious change in attitude from the Eulogy days, if nothing else.

Thoughts?

[teegman]

Ever thought about the fact that this may have no relevance whatsoever to his personal beliefs or attitude?
I mean, fuck, i wrote a song once about eating dogshit whilst fucking castrated transexuals.. get my point?

[third_eye77]

Yeah, because MJK is notorious for writing lyrics he cares nothing about.

[win]

Yeah, because MJK is notorious for writing lyrics he cares nothing about.

This may be true, but honestly, I think most of those kind of situations are when he is beign sarcastic, in which case he still cares, it is just not as obvious because it is through a joke. I think it is difficult to see this song in a light of insincerity. I think it is much more likely that another angle needs to be taken to look at it. I view the song as him accepting his mothers religiosity as something different than the 'opiate of the masses' because she has spent '10000 days in the fire' and faced all the tribulations. Although I don't think he accepts her religiosity (as apparent in the contingency of 'should you meet your maker's face tonight') he has accepted hers as something more than being brain washed, but rather as a passionate life fulfilling conviction.

[third_eye77]

^^Yeah, I think that's a more accurate interpretation rather than MJK converting. Almost more of a respect for her faith. And is 'religiosity' even a word?!?! ;)

[win]

And is 'religiosity' even a word?!?! ;)

It certainly is :)

[bellamadia]

"This little light that you passed onto me, I'm gonna let it shine..."

"It's time now, my time now.. give me my wings."


As much as many people don't want to believe it, it sounds as if Maynard may be getting back to his roots.
I mean seriously, why would one write such obvious and powerful lyrics such as this if he or she is not at least considering such things?
The song is obviously about his mother, but there are more than a couple of references to him acknowledging a "creator" and his want for something more.

It's an obvious change in attitude from the Eulogy days, if nothing else.

Thoughts?

In other threads you'll find some people's thought on this. The common thought is that he does not believe these things, but he is writing the song based on his mother's beliefs.

[xskhaos]

When he sings "give me my wings" he is speaking for his mother, not himself. But, when he says "she never had a life but certainly saved one" I think he may be speaking about himself. That doesn't mean she converted him to Christianity, but it means something that Maynard feels saved his life.

[jakethesnake]

Certainly Maynard would disgrace his mother's name by writing a song about her that he doesn't give a fuck about.

That's totally the kool thing to do nowadays kiddies.

Make art that you don't give a fuck about, especially with references to dead relatives.

[ArizonaBay]

This song is very angry. I dont think Maynard believes in a heaven at all. Remember it says 'IF' you see your makers face tonight. Its saying "I hope its all true for your (his mothers) sake and if it is you state your case you look that bastard in the eye and say i deserve my place after how you made me suffer despite my devotion". I think the reason Maynard is holding his mothers faith above the others is not because he believes it himself, but that she still did not having despite having real reason to unlike the others in the congregation who have not known such adversity. I think the really sad thing about the song is that you know Maynard doesnt believe and is heartbroken that the 27 years she spent basically waiting to die were like the Buddhist 10,000 breaths; a preparation for something new but ultimately for nothing.

[Dashel]

I've never taken MJK as an atheist but he is a far, far cry from revealed religion. A 'creator' can mean many things to many people. Religion/faith has always been his problem IMO.

[clavian]

I know Tool's music can be full of all sorts of cryptic things, but it is truly amusing to watch people on this message board debate about what Maynard thinks, as if they know him personally. "He means this...He means that". Good times.

I also think that most are scared to admit that Maynard isn't the anti-christian/whatever-religion person that many people have made him out to be. You see this with popular and influential people a lot--some fan buys their supposed schtick hook line and sinker and then when they find out that it isn't how they interpreted it, they start making excuses for the person saying/doing what they did.

Me? I'll just let the lyrics do the talking. No amount of overanalyzing is going to provide additional insight into these Tool lyrics. They are about as straight forward as can be.

Jusith was a devout Christian. Loved Jesus with all her heart. Maynard finds strength and inspiration in that. Wishes the best for her. Maybe even hopes she'll put in a good word for him.

Sure, there is some room for interpretation, but let's not get carried away here folks...

[win]

I know Tool's music can be full of all sorts of cryptic things, but it is truly amusing to watch people on this message board debate about what Maynard thinks, as if they know him personally. "He means this...He means that". Good times.

I also think that most are scared to admit that Maynard isn't the anti-christian/whatever-religion person that many people have made him out to be. You see this with popular and influential people a lot--some fan buys their supposed schtick hook line and sinker and then when they find out that it isn't how they interpreted it, they start making excuses for the person saying/doing what they did.

Me? I'll just let the lyrics do the talking. No amount of overanalyzing is going to provide additional insight into these Tool lyrics. They are about as straight forward as can be.

Jusith was a devout Christian. Loved Jesus with all her heart. Maynard finds strength and inspiration in that. Wishes the best for her. Maybe even hopes she'll put in a good word for him.

Sure, there is some room for interpretation, but let's not get carried away here folks...

in all fairness I think, as with most art, the artist has an intended message. Of course sometiems this can be simple catharsis from telling their story, We can read a book and talk about the message of the story, we can look at a piece of art and talk about social criticism or spiritual despair. I think it is only fair, and fitting with music as moving as Tool's to discuss interpretations. As for what MJK is thinking, of course (with out interviews and such which are often cited in these things) we can't know what he is think and yet I think it is fair to present evidence for reasonable conclusions. Furthermore on the ppl being afraid that MJK might be religious... This may be true of some 15 year old metal heads, but many people here have lsitened to Tool for a while and with spirituality and god as huge themes in their music, trying to understand the philosophic disposition MJK can have explanatory power in deciphering what are sometimes very cryptic language. take for example The Grudge. That song has some meaning to it (often attributed I think to a group Jewish Magicians or something) and it requires looking at it like a puzzle, which their music and much art often is. Read a Faulkner book and tell me you didn't have to do the same thigns people are doing here. Over analyzation is obviously a possibility but I think much good thought is written off often under that presumptious pretense.

[ArizonaBay]

^^ I did let the lyrics do the talking... that is what they mean -there is no need to overanalyse anything. The lyrics show that that Maynard doesn't believe but almost wishes he did for his Mothers sake, there is still bitterness there its just articulated in a much more real way than "fuck your god".

[win]

^^ I did let the lyrics do the talking... that is what they mean -there is no need to overanalyse anything. The lyrics show that that Maynard doesn't believe but almost wishes he did for his Mothers sake, there is still bitterness there its just articulated in a much more real way than "fuck your god".

agreed

[Harry Manback]

I think he just wishes those 10,000 days of suffering were worth something.

[T-13h]

I think he just wishes those 10,000 days of suffering were worth something.

Yeah.


I get the feeling the April Fools Joke happened when Blair (the band?) heard Maynard's ideas for lyrics on this album and found it kind of funny themselves.

Just my thought.

[gorzholio]

"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind."

[dissonance19]

lol..just wow...

[Blanket_509]

I posted this before, but I'll post it again...

The tone is not that Maynard accepts Christianity, but that regardless of whether or not his mother's beliefs were true or even rational, the fact that she believed in something so strongly earned her the right to finally rest in the place she so strongly believed in. In other words, your beliefs may not be any more right or rational than mine, but if that's what you choose to believe, and if you truly adhere to that belief throughout life, then damn it you deserve to fully realize that belief in death.

To me, an angel's wings seem to be the ultimate token of realization of the Christian goal (his mother's goal).

[ljasonl]

This song makes it extremely obvious that he doesn't believe

Don't just quote single lines out of context

[evilprimeval]

This song makes it extremely obvious that he doesn't believe

Don't just quote single lines out of context
It's ridiculous, isn't it?
Sometimes I'll think that something's obvious but then I'll run across a thread with so many people just not getting it. Here, for instance, they reduce the entire thing to a question of if it's A)he believes or B) he doesn't believe. They miss the entire point of the song. Just feel the songs, think about them, but don't try to boil it all down into an easy-to-swallow concept.

[Lamb & Martyr^]

I think he is mocking Christianity.
Some one so dedicated can be stabed in the back and suffer for so long.
Maynard is asking HER god, how could you do this?

[HateSolstice]

After reading this, it almost seems quite a few people think he is not a spiritual person. Either that, or I grossly misread a lot of it. I've seen it posted plenty of times. I don't really see why people would think this though.

Opiate and Undertow aside, much of Tool's music just radiates with spirtual overtones. Lateralus was the most obvious of their albums, but I sensed a hint of it with Forty-Six & 2, and H(Eulogy, I think, had a slightly different meaning behind it). This album, to me at least, is just a continuation of Lateralus. And to me, that is a good thing. Lateralus was their most mature album up that point, and this record just proves that they are growing up. Not that they were ever childish, but you can see how the teenage angst showed more in Opiate and Undertow. Aenima, I think, was their transitional period, trying to push their own boundaries.

Perhaps he is Christian, and like many others before their final revelation, he is going through his own trials and tribulations(and we really should start including the whole band in this, since it takes them all to formulate Tool). Or maybe he's a total Anti-God nutcase, which I honestly don't believe.

Whatever the truth is, I don't think we have the right to judge him for any religious or spiritual decisions he makes.

[Blanket_509]

^ Spiritual? Yes most certainly. Christian? I'm not even going to answer that one.

[Dungflowers]

Ever think that they were in the midst of creating this opus around April 1st of last year?

Probably where the joke originated...

Duh.

[Perseensilmä]

"This little light that you passed onto me, I'm gonna let it shine..."

"It's time now, my time now.. give me my wings."


As much as many people don't want to believe it, it sounds as if Maynard may be getting back to his roots.
I mean seriously, why would one write such obvious and powerful lyrics such as this if he or she is not at least considering such things?
The song is obviously about his mother, but there are more than a couple of references to him acknowledging a "creator" and his want for something more.

It's an obvious change in attitude from the Eulogy days, if nothing else.

Thoughts?

I think the song is about his mother and her beliefs.

[clavian]

in all fairness I think, as with most art, the artist has an intended message. Of course sometiems this can be simple catharsis from telling their story, We can read a book and talk about the message of the story, we can look at a piece of art and talk about social criticism or spiritual despair. I think it is only fair, and fitting with music as moving as Tool's to discuss interpretations. As for what MJK is thinking, of course (with out interviews and such which are often cited in these things) we can't know what he is think and yet I think it is fair to present evidence for reasonable conclusions. Furthermore on the ppl being afraid that MJK might be religious... This may be true of some 15 year old metal heads, but many people here have lsitened to Tool for a while and with spirituality and god as huge themes in their music, trying to understand the philosophic disposition MJK can have explanatory power in deciphering what are sometimes very cryptic language. take for example The Grudge. That song has some meaning to it (often attributed I think to a group Jewish Magicians or something) and it requires looking at it like a puzzle, which their music and much art often is. Read a Faulkner book and tell me you didn't have to do the same thigns people are doing here. Over analyzation is obviously a possibility but I think much good thought is written off often under that presumptious pretense.


I probably didn't phrase some of that very well, but my general point was that a lot of people seem to be in denial about what I feel is a pretty obvious change in Maynard's thinking. Not saying he is a born-again Christian all of a sudden, but there seems to have been some fairly obvious and marked changes made in his views, yet we still have people INSISTING that he is anti-christian, or anti-god, which he may well be. Seems a lot of this is due to the fact that Maynard has kind of been the champion of the anti organized religion sentiment that a lot of the fans agree with. Not calling anyone out, but there seem to be a good number of folks that are wearing blinders when it comes to some seemingly obvious changes.

I think the songs MUST be held up to the microscope of individual perception, but I'm tired of being "told" what Maynard believes.

[toolmaul]

"Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance,
Burden of proof tossed upon the believers.

You were [the / my] witness, my eyes, my evidence,
Judith Marie, unconditional one."
that pretty much says, I'm set in my ways, but still loved you and respected you and your beliefs

[win]

I probably didn't phrase some of that very well, but my general point was that a lot of people seem to be in denial about what I feel is a pretty obvious change in Maynard's thinking. Not saying he is a born-again Christian all of a sudden, but there seems to have been some fairly obvious and marked changes made in his views, yet we still have people INSISTING that he is anti-christian, or anti-god, which he may well be. Seems a lot of this is due to the fact that Maynard has kind of been the champion of the anti organized religion sentiment that a lot of the fans agree with. Not calling anyone out, but there seem to be a good number of folks that are wearing blinders when it comes to some seemingly obvious changes.

I think the songs MUST be held up to the microscope of individual perception, but I'm tired of being "told" what Maynard believes.

I don't want to seem like I am dogging you nor do I want a stimulating debate in analyzing art (tool specificly) to make people need to feel defensively. You don't have to respond if you feel like I am singling out your comments too much- I sincerely don't mean anything by.

I agree and disagreee with your post here. I do firmly agree that people have viewed MJK as much and that it does distort their analysis. I am not sure which way I feel about caying that his (at least conveyed message) has changed directions. It certainly could have. I do think it is different in respective- I think it would be hard to argue otherwise. However, I am seeing it as more of a development of what was already there. May be it is more of a clarification we are feeling through out the album and in particular in this song. For example he still mocks the mass religion when he talks about the congregation, but now he has become more accute in his position in saying 'but when your beliefs are tested and you are genuinely and passionately still convicted you are not the mindless mass.' I think there are a number of examples of this, but this is a much more ambiguous thing ot pin down because we DON'T know for sure on some of the fine details. For example we can say things with decent certainty like 'he is still fascinated by hallunicenagenic drugs' as evident in rossetta stoned, but debates over the fine details of position on religion are much more difficult. I have my interpretation (mentioned just a moment ago). I dunno I think it is more of a adding a level of accuteness and clarification and expansion rather than a directional change. Just my opinion.

[moneyisevil]

"This little light that you passed onto me, I'm gonna let it shine..."

"It's time now, my time now.. give me my wings."


As much as many people don't want to believe it, it sounds as if Maynard may be getting back to his roots.
I mean seriously, why would one write such obvious and powerful lyrics such as this if he or she is not at least considering such things?
The song is obviously about his mother, but there are more than a couple of references to him acknowledging a "creator" and his want for something more.

It's an obvious change in attitude from the Eulogy days, if nothing else.

Thoughts?

do u even know what eulogy is about....its not sung from mjks pov

mjk: "this song is about martyrs"

[ArizonaBay]

I probably didn't phrase some of that very well, but my general point was that a lot of people seem to be in denial about what I feel is a pretty obvious change in Maynard's thinking. Not saying he is a born-again Christian all of a sudden, but there seems to have been some fairly obvious and marked changes made in his views, yet we still have people INSISTING that he is anti-christian, or anti-god, which he may well be. Seems a lot of this is due to the fact that Maynard has kind of been the champion of the anti organized religion sentiment that a lot of the fans agree with. Not calling anyone out, but there seem to be a good number of folks that are wearing blinders when it comes to some seemingly obvious changes.

I think the songs MUST be held up to the microscope of individual perception, but I'm tired of being "told" what Maynard believes.

I disagree, there is no change in his beliefs in this album, in fact this song makes clear where his grudge against christianity comes from. Its just put in a more mature tolerant perspective. The power of this song comes from the fact that maynard isnt Christian in any sense. He doesnt believe, but his mother did so its like "if you WERE right all along please forgive this selfish question to your god, why did he make you suffer, why? because its all bullshit you are not going anywhere there is no god putting you through this as a test of faith" Think of the first couple of lines of part 2 about romanticising and rationalising- this is what he thinks of religous beliefs. Its an angry heartbroken song, there is no real hope just grasping at straws, which is where the "has Maynard found god?" dichotomy comes in. Im suprised it was even included on the album (not that i dont like it) its so personal. Maybe it was released as part of his grieving process. I love it but feel a little voyeuristic listening to it sometimes.

[clavian]

I disagree, there is no change in his beliefs in this album, in fact this song makes clear where his grudge against christianity comes from. Its just put in a more mature tolerant perspective. The power of this song comes from the fact that maynard isnt Christian in any sense. He doesnt believe, but his mother did so its like "if you WERE right all along please forgive this selfish question to your god, why did he make you suffer, why? because its all bullshit you are not going anywhere there is no god putting you through this as a test of faith" Think of the first couple of lines of part 2 about romanticising and rationalising- this is what he thinks of religous beliefs. Its an angry heartbroken song, there is no real hope just grasping at straws, which is where the "has Maynard found god?" dichotomy comes in. Im suprised it was even included on the album (not that i dont like it) its so personal. Maybe it was released as part of his grieving process. I love it but feel a little voyeuristic listening to it sometimes.

Perceptions differ. I just don't think I'm in a position to speak for Maynard, that's all. So I'll leave it at that.

[panocha21]

I've said this before. I think this song is Maynard literally worshipping his mother the way Christians worship Jesus. Because guess what? She's the only one who can hold her head up high. After 10,000 Days in the fire, she paid her dues. She truly deserves spiritual immortality in Maynard's eyes.

I can't say I feel the same way. Judith wasn't my mother. And we all she's not the only one in the history of man to suffer. But after listening to this song, we know where Maynard is coming from. Being the artists they are, they've allowed us to see the greatness that Maynard saw in her.

[Camo23]

I personally think that the lyrics relate to his mothers religious beliefs hence the line "SHOULD YOU SEE YOUR MAKERS FACE TONIGHT". He doesn't refer to THE MAKER or MY MAKER but YOUR MAKER, insinuating that it is someone elses belief. But hey if they are from Maynards perspective i dont really care. Its a beautiful song and they are beautiful lyrics regardless of MJK's religious opinions.

[ryzur]

I posted this before, but I'll post it again...

The tone is not that Maynard accepts Christianity, but that regardless of whether or not his mother's beliefs were true or even rational, the fact that she believed in something so strongly earned her the right to finally rest in the place she so strongly believed in. In other words, your beliefs may not be any more right or rational than mine, but if that's what you choose to believe, and if you truly adhere to that belief throughout life, then damn it you deserve to fully realize that belief in death.

To me, an angel's wings seem to be the ultimate token of realization of the Christian goal (his mother's goal).

Minus a few details, I completely agree. I think Maynard was basically speaking for his mother, as someone who he believed and adhered to all the "rules" and commandments in the bible, even after being paralyzed, that she better get her Goddamned wings. She worked for it, may have "wasted" her life for it, is it too much to ask?

[spiraleyes]

one thing you can see through the course of tools music, is that as the instrumentation has progressed (even though i personally feel it reached it peak during the song lateralus, just watch it live) maynards lyrics have matured. when the band first came around in 92, opiates lyrics were kinda pissy, and opiate the song was a direct shot a christianity, some songs off of undertow seem to have an underlying message about religion if there wasnt a subtheme dealing with the concept. Aenima progressed more towards human evolution but was not without the likes of eulogy. apc released judith in 2000 and that seemed to be a shot at mrs keenans beliefs. but the release of lateralus seemed to deal more with transcendance and i dont believe any songs had to do with jesus or religion except some argue the combo of parabol/parabola but i always thought of that as fucking. now with this release and his mothers recent death, her being an avid christian, could spark an album that without a doubt has a lot to do with religion, right in two was from the point of view of angels, and this particular track being discussed could be very well him having the best wishes for his mother or maybe her death gave him a new perspective with the line "never took a life but surely saved one" but it could also very well mean that the values she taught him through her beliefs have made him into a good person

[Xeph]

I think many Tool fans are immature people who hate God for the sake of hating God.The fact that this song indicates that maynard is possibly CONSIDERING it embroils you, and you block it out like the closeminded people you truly are.
(If indeed there is one)

Athiesm is washed up and shows that you haven't actually thought it out.(Even if a personal, intelligent "God" doesn't exist, simple logic would dictate that there had to be some spark to start life/matter. (I.e. "God", in whatever form) ) When someone says that they are an athiest it instantly indicates that they just don't have the will to stop and think.
If you are such an athiest then stop telling something that doesn't exist to "fuck off, and just be a goddamn athiest.

"This little light you passed on to me, I'm gonna let it shine" I'm not a fucking Christian fanatic or even a believer, but what I see here is a bunch of pissed off kids. "NO NO! HE FUCKING HATES GOD! THIS SONG IS SARCASTIC!" LOOK at yourselves.STOP and THINK.

I'm not saying this means anything, I was making a suggestion based on some pretty fucking obvious lyrics ( Kind of a contrast from "Fuck your god" and "Come down, get off your fucking cross", don't you think?) and I see a flood of "NO NO! Nothing has changed it's only about his mother" posts. A frenzy of scared people, terrified that they won't be able to identify their favorite lead singer as a fellow "free thinking God hater."

A sarcastic song about something that probably means more to him than his own life? Fucking grow up.
Maybe you'd actually *find* some form of enlightment if you didn't blindly hate the very idea of something beyond your greasy metalhead asses.

[Perseensilmä]

When did Maynard say that he hates god in the first place?

[Xeph]

I think he is mocking Christianity.
Some one so dedicated can be stabed in the back and suffer for so long.
Maynard is asking HER god, how could you do this?


Umm, pretty sure that's what "Judith" was about, big guy.


Yes, everything he does is mocking Christianity because it's so scene and cool.

I'm not even a Christian and I can't believe your astounding absolute lack of any FORM of objectivity.

It's all fucking hate.

[Xeph]

When did Maynard say that he hates god in the first place?


Oh, didn't you know. It goes with the whole metal thing. You know, it's cool to hate God, and anyone who says differently is obviously closeminded, wrong and hates science!

It's like posting with a bunch of highschoolers who claim to be free of mind because they subscribe to a band's belief system.

[Perseensilmä]

Oh, didn't you know. It goes with the whole metal thing. You know, it's cool to hate God, and anyone who says differently is obviously closeminded, wrong and hates science!

It's like posting with a bunch of highschoolers who claim to be free of mind because they subscribe to a band's belief system.

Would you answer my question?

[Xeph]

That post was sarcasm, as many of the posts in this thread reek of people with blinders on.

No, Maynard never once stated that he hates God. He did seem to exude some pretty intense anger throughout the years, but he has never been athiestic in any form. True athiests don't generally yell at things they truly don't believe in.

[Perseensilmä]

I don´t know if there has even been anger towards god.

[Xeph]

I think there has definetly been some marked anger toward God. Eulogy was not about "martyrs" as someone earlier said, it was a direct Eulogy to Jesus Christ. (To say that it was not is to indicate that one has poor knowledge of the scriptures they so dislike)

What would you say to support your claim that there has never been ANY anger towards God in any of Maynard's lyrics?
anyway..
Now people will say "fuck that, Jesus is not God." Well, from Maynard's world that is God. I was raised in a nearly identical atmosphere. From the perspective of the Christian faith (which is what we're talking about in this thread) Christ IS God.

[Perseensilmä]

Well, the way I see it, I don´t see any anger towards god or Jesus in his songs.

examples, please

[Xeph]

Regarding 10,000 days, let me reiterate, and attempt to go through the song so as not to be acused of "taking one liners". Because one liners can't mean anything, right?

"None of us have actually been there, not like you" Indicating that his mother may have had some faith, or a spiritual experience that unbelievers have not had. Therefore, as unbelievers we cannot understand this, we haven't had the experience.

"This little light, the gift that you passed on to me, I'm gonna let it shine and guide you safely on your way. Your way home."
What little light? Could this POSSIBLY be a new perspective? People will chime in "Well certainly not faith, because Maynard's beliefs haven't changed at all!" Of course not, it's all sarcasm, right?

You're right, the "Give me my wings" part seems to indeed be from his mother's perspective. However, he echoes "Give me my, give me my, give me my, winnnnngs", which almost sounds like it may be him saying it for himself.

Probably the most convincing line for me is near the end, where he calls her his "Evidence" and his "Witness". Ok. Evidence for what? A witness for what?

If you can't even at least acknowledge what this song indicates you don't deserve to call yourself a free, objective thinker.

I'm not saying this makes him a born-again Christian, as the last line says "IF you should see your maker, look Him in the eye, look Him in the eye".

But to deny a shift in his spiritual perspective is blindness. (Based solely on what we see in the music, I make no claim to actually know the man's heart)

[Xeph]

Well, the way I see it, I don´t see any anger towards god or Jesus in his songs.

examples, please

Alright then.

Eulogy

"So long.
We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.
Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried. "

Denying the divinity and ressurection of Christ. Calling Christ a mere martyr instead of the son of God who died for forgiveness of sins. Basically completely denouncing Christ's claim based on the Christian faith. (The entire base of the Christian belief system revolves around the ressurection)

if you're doubting that he is talking about Christ theres:

"Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice that was strong and loud.
We'll miss him."

In the bible, Christ taught often times by gathering people and standing above the crowd and teaching so that everyone could hear him. It was also practice for him to go out on a boat so his voice would travel across the water and reach more people's earshot. It was all about everyone hearing his message.

"Come down.
Get off your fuckin cross.
We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr."

The devil's last temptation was basically to tell Jesus that he could make it all end, and call a legion of angels to end the pain by simply saying the word. He basically said "Come down off the cross, Son of Man"
In this song, maynard is sarcastically taunting Christ to come off the cross if he can, and calling him a fool martyr. (..but he who says to his brother, "You Fool", is in danger of the fires of hell)--The bible.
---So basically claiming that He wasn't anything that he said he was. Just a raving fool madman.

"To ascend you must die.
You must be crucified
For your sins and your lies. [sic]
Goodbye..."

Indicating that Jesus died for his OWN sins rather than the sins of everyone who would accept his sacrifice. In a word, complete blasphemy of his name.


How could you possibly twist the interpretation around to think it is ANYONE but Jesus? All the indications are VERY pointed. And with any biblical knowledge, the references jump out at you on the 1st listen.

(As I said, I was raised in the same environment as Maynard. I know when someone is talking about hatred of Christ vs. redemption through Christ)

[heathen]

I'll agree with Xeph on that there certainly seems to be a shift in perspective.Really the only shift I see is there seems to be less angner.

For someone to say they've never seen any anger towards god in maynard's lyrics is silly IMHO. Do you forget the song "judith?" "Fuck you god, your lord your christ, he did this to you." If that's not anger tell me what is, please.

Do the lyrics on this album mean that MJK has "converted?" I don't believe so personally, however as many have stated to this point, there does seem to be a matured and tolerant viewpoint.

Christianity itself has long been a theme in Tool's lyrics. With Opiate, Sober, Eulogy, and now the Wings songs and Right in Two on the new album. I personally see an evolution in perspective over the course of these songs. With opiate, it is a blatant jab at the religion in and of its self, and not the beliefs. Sober is more inquisitive, and again speaking out against structured religion (my interpretation). Eulogy is very pointedly and sarcasticly poking at martyrs and most likely jesus. And now we have wings and right in two. It is clear that Wings was written TO someone else. This person had a profound effect on him, and as he alludes to saved his life. My personal interpretation of this is that person, in their steadfast beliefs and purity inspired him. The line "she never told a lie, well she might have told a lie, but never lived one," says to me that unlike the "collective judas" this persons beliefs were real. Never in the song does he say that this person convinced him that he was wrong, or that they were right. Then there is Right in Two. I take this song as again slightly sarcastic comentary on the state of the human race. Just because he mentions Angels, and "father gave them..." does not mean he holds that viewpoint.

Now, while christiany has been a theme in his lyrics, I see myself a more prominent theme of personal development and personal spirituality. Songs like Sweat, Part of Me, H, Forty Six & 2, Pushit, Third Eye, The Grudge, Parabol/Parabola, Lateralus, Disposition, and Reflection amongst several others express an open minded, raw and avid thirst for knowledge, progression and awareness. It seems to me that he has a more buddhist perspective on the "afterlife" than any other. This is expressed in the lines from Reflection (So crucify the ego, before it's far too late To leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical,And you will come to find that we are all one mind) and Intension (Leave as we come in Pure as light, return to one).

In sumary, as far as christianity is concerned, there certainly is anger on MJK's part IMHO. The lyrics on the new album do not mean that he has converted, but simply show a respect for someones beliefs if they are in fact TRUE beliefs and not 'convenient' beliefs like most people's. His lyrics have long been spiritual in nature, coupled with critisism of organized religion, society and those who judge others.

As far as the April fool's joke and the new album are concerned, I would think it silly to come out and say one is christian, then say it was all a joke when it really wasn't. I personally dont' believe that MJK is that hypocritical.

This of course is my opinion conjecture and interpretation. For the facts, you'd have to ask the artist himself.

[Perseensilmä]

Alright then.

Eulogy

"So long.
We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.
Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried. "

Denying the divinity and ressurection of Christ. Calling Christ a mere martyr instead of the son of God who died for forgiveness of sins. Basically completely denouncing Christ's claim based on the Christian faith. (The entire base of the Christian belief system revolves around the ressurection)

What? Are you sure this song is about Yesua? Those lines doesn´t imply that Maynard´s lyrics are about Yesua.

if you're doubting that he is talking about Christ theres:

"Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice that was strong and loud.
We'll miss him."

In the bible, Christ taught often times by gathering people and standing above the crowd and teaching so that everyone could hear him. It was also practice for him to go out on a boat so his voice would travel across the water and reach more people's earshot. It was all about everyone hearing his message.

And no one else has ever done this? I thought that so called martyrs, other than Yesua, may have done the same thing, of course some of them couldn´t preach publicly because of the persecutions.

OK, it´s biblical imagery but it doesn´t mean it refers to Yesua.


"Come down.
Get off your fuckin cross.
We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr."

The devil's last temptation was basically to tell Jesus that he could make it all end, and call a legion of angels to end the pain by simply saying the word. He basically said "Come down off the cross, Son of Man"
In this song, maynard is sarcastically taunting Christ to come off the cross if he can, and calling him a fool martyr. (..but he who says to his brother, "You Fool", is in danger of the fires of hell)--The bible.
---So basically claiming that He wasn't anything that he said he was. Just a raving fool madman.

Again, biblical imagery doesn´t mean that it´s Yesua that he is talking about.

"To ascend you must die.
You must be crucified
For your sins and your lies. [sic]
Goodbye..."

Indicating that Jesus died for his OWN sins rather than the sins of everyone who would accept his sacrifice. In a word, complete blasphemy of his name.

or not. or who cares.

How could you possibly twist the interpretation around to think it is ANYONE but Jesus? All the indications are VERY pointed. And with any biblical knowledge, the references jump out at you on the 1st listen.

(As I said, I was raised in the same environment as Maynard. I know when someone is talking about hatred of Christ vs. redemption through Christ)

Great. Do you know anything about metaphors and other stuff that are used to write poems. You know, it doesn´t always mean that the singer is eating goat´s rectum if he is singing that he eats goat´s rectum. Or it doesn´t mean that he is attacking Yesua if he is using biblical imagery and metaphors.

Perhaps you should study poems and interpretation techniques.


For someone to say they've never seen any anger towards god in maynard's lyrics is silly IMHO. Do you forget the song "judith?" "Fuck you god, your lord your christ, he did this to you." If that's not anger tell me what is, please.

It´s necessarely not about Maynard´s hate towards god. Actually, I can´t find a reason to interpret judith taht way.

Judith is basically a song about Judith´s faith and how strong it is. Even if he could show her what kind of an asshole god has been to her, still she doesn´t abandon her faith. There´s also indications of how the narrator of that song is maybe even jealous for her faith, unable to choose that kind of a lifestyle. But, the bottom line in that song is that Judith´s faith is strong.

[heathen]

I'm sorry Perseensilmä. Judith is an agry song. If you choose to interpret Judith as a non-angry song, then perhaps you are incapable as seing somone as angry? Or perhaps you are one of the peope that sees every christian as right?

Nowhere in that song does the author say that "judith's faith is strong." He is ridiculing the subject of the song for being so "stong" in faith. Perhaps the words "fuck your god, your lord your christ" are lost on you? Perhaps you wish MJK was christian?

Regardless, that is an angry song, and the words "fuck your god..." express very blatant anger towards god.

[1218JAKOB]

I came from a household like the one Maynard proposed to have come from. I married a woman who is very christian and I can tell you from experience that you tend to make big circles on the topic because you are so damned confused. I go to church every now and then and afterwards I ask myself or God - "Why the Fuck did you do that if you are this God of love"..."Where the Fuck was my "savior?" "
Its not uncommon, and we all need to pair with that thought the realization that Maynards mother passed in 2003 which would make alot of the questios you ask yourself when that happens pretty timely or this record.
I am not saying that he has been born again...I highly doubt that - BUT I do think that where his mother is weighes much more heavily on him now, and that the christianity that she held so dearly has paid off.
I think that like many of us MJK will hold contempt for Christianity, Christ, God, and Religion because of our life experiences.
Some people just dont agree that getting fucked over for a lifetime is worth the price of admission to heaven......

[Xeph]

To suggest that Eulogy is about anybody BUT Jesus is, to ME, ridiculous *given Maynard's upbringing*.

No anger toward God in any of his lyrics? I'm sorry, but it seemsthat you're attemting not to see the obvious. The anger is even inferred through the *way* he sings, and the sarcastic, vitriolic tone some of the songs take.

To suggest that Eulogy is about some random martyrs? Why would Maynard write a song about random martyrs? What possible purpose would this serve? The song is pointed to one individual. "Come down, get off your fucking cross"
English 101: "(You) Come down, get off your fucking cross" With an implied you. Talking to a singular individual.

"He had a voice that was strong in loud, we'll miss him."

This is about Christ, undoubtedly. Christ's voice was strong and loud as he stood over the people and taught. I don't see how people can twist interpretations so much when the meaning is obvious.

He's from a southern baptist home, he makes obvious and marked biblical references, and in parts of the song even assumes the voice of Satan's last temptation of Christ where he TELLS and tempts Jesus to "Come off his cross"! I live about 2 hours south of his old home in the "bible belt", around here, EVERYTHING is Jesus this Jesus that. The song seems to be very blatantly speaking to a *single* individual; not "martyrs in general".

Who would write a song about maryrs in general? (I doubt maynard is pissed at all Martyrs, sir, as martyrs are ususally peopel who believed so strongly in something they'd die for it. Why would Maynard hate *THAT*??)
What a boring, pointless and needlessly hateful song that would be.

"Some people just dont agree that getting fucked over for a lifetime is worth the price of admission to heaven......"

If God created the universe in 6 days, and this world is so infinitely interesting, how cool would heaven be if God spent 4000 years preparing a place of reward. If the Bible is indeed true, and our lives are nothing more than a rising vapor compared to eternity, I'm pretty sure that one won't be disappointed by living this life when it comes to a judgement day. Being objective here, I'm not saying it like I "know" anything. But if heaven exists, and eternity in it exists, I'm pretty sure I'd do anything to get there.

[ArizonaBay]

I posted this before, but I'll post it again...

The tone is not that Maynard accepts Christianity, but that regardless of whether or not his mother's beliefs were true or even rational, the fact that she believed in something so strongly earned her the right to finally rest in the place she so strongly believed in. In other words, your beliefs may not be any more right or rational than mine, but if that's what you choose to believe, and if you truly adhere to that belief throughout life, then damn it you deserve to fully realize that belief in death.

To me, an angel's wings seem to be the ultimate token of realization of the Christian goal (his mother's goal).

Yeah that was what i was trying to say. You put it better.

[Xeph]

I had a very profound spiritual experience tonight I feel that I should share here. I have found that all things: ideas, physical goods, logic, and faith are only as valuable as the INDIVIDUAL says.

This, to me, seems to be true openmindedness. Perhaps I'm wrong. But for the 1st time in 4 years of being a junkie/drug fiend I've returned to Christ as best I can. I'm filthy and don't deserve any redemption, but I felt the cleansing after my friend and I shook and cried for an hour straight about the sorrows of life. How all things die and how honestly, logic has no value unless you give it value.

That is not to say we should abandon science, but I do believe it means that one has to take these items for what they're worth.

Who knows, I'm not bitching or preaching at anyone.

[timmit]

I think a lot of people are rejecting or disregarding some of these lyrics because they dont want to believe Maynard is just as confused and lost on the issue of religion as everyone else. He seemed so sure about where he stood on religious issues in other songs.

[markovnikov]

"This little light that you passed onto me, I'm gonna let it shine..."

"It's time now, my time now.. give me my wings."


As much as many people don't want to believe it, it sounds as if Maynard may be getting back to his roots.
I mean seriously, why would one write such obvious and powerful lyrics such as this if he or she is not at least considering such things?
The song is obviously about his mother, but there are more than a couple of references to him acknowledging a "creator" and his want for something more.

It's an obvious change in attitude from the Eulogy days, if nothing else.

Thoughts?

I think it's fairly obvious that this song is in the same vein as Judith. It's not about Maynard's struggle it's about his interpretation of either his deceased mother's faith or about a time in his own life where he was at odds with his faith and was questioning it.

[markovnikov]

Regarding 10,000 days, let me reiterate, and attempt to go through the song so as not to be acused of "taking one liners". Because one liners can't mean anything, right?

"None of us have actually been there, not like you" Indicating that his mother may have had some faith, or a spiritual experience that unbelievers have not had. Therefore, as unbelievers we cannot understand this, we haven't had the experience.

"This little light, the gift that you passed on to me, I'm gonna let it shine and guide you safely on your way. Your way home."
What little light? Could this POSSIBLY be a new perspective? People will chime in "Well certainly not faith, because Maynard's beliefs haven't changed at all!" Of course not, it's all sarcasm, right?

You're right, the "Give me my wings" part seems to indeed be from his mother's perspective. However, he echoes "Give me my, give me my, give me my, winnnnngs", which almost sounds like it may be him saying it for himself.

Probably the most convincing line for me is near the end, where he calls her his "Evidence" and his "Witness". Ok. Evidence for what? A witness for what?

If you can't even at least acknowledge what this song indicates you don't deserve to call yourself a free, objective thinker.

I'm not saying this makes him a born-again Christian, as the last line says "IF you should see your maker, look Him in the eye, look Him in the eye".

But to deny a shift in his spiritual perspective is blindness. (Based solely on what we see in the music, I make no claim to actually know the man's heart)

a couple of things: first the little light is most definately a referrence to a sunday school song "this little light of mine" which is just a way of alluding to young children's blind faith in the god of their parents.

the witness line is another allusion to christianity. in the christian faith it is often mentioned that believers are witnesses or that they are to testify to god's greatness.

the bit about give me my wings where you say this may be him actually "saying it for himself" i think you could be on to something but not in the way that you think. the way i see it, i think he is saying it in referrence to the rest of the song but as you can hear the despiration it sounds as if he means it for himself. i think that he is trying despirately to understand how such a belief could be held so tightly.

but then again I guess he could have been going to church with George W. and was born again and is just singing his praises... in a sort of TOOLish kind of way.

[markovnikov]

I think a lot of people are rejecting or disregarding some of these lyrics because they dont want to believe Maynard is just as confused and lost on the issue of religion as everyone else. He seemed so sure about where he stood on religious issues in other songs.

I think your right timmit. I think that it's hard for people to understand that just because your not a christian or a muslim or whatever that you can't struggle with your faith or lack thereof. Every man from the dawn of religious belief has struggled with what they truly believe. I know I do and so does maynard.

[markovnikov]

I had a very profound spiritual experience tonight I feel that I should share here. I have found that all things: ideas, physical goods, logic, and faith are only as valuable as the INDIVIDUAL says.

This, to me, seems to be true openmindedness. Perhaps I'm wrong. But for the 1st time in 4 years of being a junkie/drug fiend I've returned to Christ as best I can. I'm filthy and don't deserve any redemption, but I felt the cleansing after my friend and I shook and cried for an hour straight about the sorrows of life. How all things die and how honestly, logic has no value unless you give it value.

That is not to say we should abandon science, but I do believe it means that one has to take these items for what they're worth.

Who knows, I'm not bitching or preaching at anyone.

thinking and religion are not mutually exclusive. they must coexist or else man would have nothing else to fight over. truly belief is a personal thing and if you do or don't believe that is your choice and there is nothing in this existance that can change your beliefs. not crusades, not political regimes, not even you favorite artists can force you to believe otherwise. there is no one else inside your head but you and what you chose to do with that power is the basis of all religion (well most). Belief is not weakness but apathy and following orders is. think on these things and take orders from no man.

[markovnikov]

I think that like many of us MJK will hold contempt for Christianity, Christ, God, and Religion because of our life experiences.
Some people just dont agree that getting fucked over for a lifetime is worth the price of admission to heaven......

that quote is very carelessly worded "Some people just dont agree that getting fucked over for a lifetime is worth the price of admission to heaven." if you believe in heaven or even agknowledge its very existence it implies that you know anything about it. If you agree that it exists then you must invariably agree with its source. If it is there then it has the properties that are described by the various world religions and its price of admission as you've stated might very well be getting "fucked over for a lifetime." Unless you are suggesting your own version of heaven that is less than perfect and eternal then you are saying: **It is not worth the suffering of ones lifetime to enjoy the hereafter for an eternity.** that seems mindless and silly.

I'm not picking on you. Really I'm not. But it's just that you can't just go around saying things that make you sound like a idiot.

[markovnikov]

What? Are you sure this song is about Yesua? Those lines doesn´t imply that Maynard´s lyrics are about Yesua.



And no one else has ever done this? I thought that so called martyrs, other than Yesua, may have done the same thing, of course some of them couldn´t preach publicly because of the persecutions.

OK, it´s biblical imagery but it doesn´t mean it refers to Yesua.



Again, biblical imagery doesn´t mean that it´s Yesua that he is talking about.



or not. or who cares.


Great. Do you know anything about metaphors and other stuff that are used to write poems. You know, it doesn´t always mean that the singer is eating goat´s rectum if he is singing that he eats goat´s rectum. Or it doesn´t mean that he is attacking Yesua if he is using biblical imagery and metaphors.

Perhaps you should study poems and interpretation techniques.


It´s necessarely not about Maynard´s hate towards god. Actually, I can´t find a reason to interpret judith taht way.

Judith is basically a song about Judith´s faith and how strong it is. Even if he could show her what kind of an asshole god has been to her, still she doesn´t abandon her faith. There´s also indications of how the narrator of that song is maybe even jealous for her faith, unable to choose that kind of a lifestyle. But, the bottom line in that song is that Judith´s faith is strong.

You have to admit that even though he seems to have his anger at the moment directed towards his (now deceased) mother, it doesn't seem like he's too fond of god at the moment either.

[Shomino]

The atheist argument:

By Christian standards, God is all-powerful. God is all knowing. Evil exists. God is opposed to evil.

How can all these be true? If God were truly all powerful and all knowing, and ALSO opposed to evil, why would he allow it to exist?

Some would say "to test us". So, are you saying that God is responsible for evil?
Man, that's messed up, but I guess it would be true by that logic.

After all he did create Lucifer, and being all knowing, knew that he would fall from heaven and oppose him.

So did God create evil? If Lucifer (Satan) is what all evil stems from, then God created evil.

This is all according to the assumption that Satan is the fountain that all evil flows from. If not... perhaps we have even more to worry about than Satan.

[markovnikov]

there is no way that you can NOT see how maynard's lyrics in this song point out his contempt for god. that's the kind of blind thinking that has caused us to re-elect that fucking idiot-cowboy in washington.

[Lennon]

I posted this before, but I'll post it again...

The tone is not that Maynard accepts Christianity, but that regardless of whether or not his mother's beliefs were true or even rational, the fact that she believed in something so strongly earned her the right to finally rest in the place she so strongly believed in. In other words, your beliefs may not be any more right or rational than mine, but if that's what you choose to believe, and if you truly adhere to that belief throughout life, then damn it you deserve to fully realize that belief in death.

To me, an angel's wings seem to be the ultimate token of realization of the Christian goal (his mother's goal).

I thought this was pretty obvious from the song. Is Maynard spiritual? Yes. Is he religious? No.

[toolmaul]

I heard a live version of opiate where he says "you ever heard of jesus, buddha, krishna, mohammad? They had some pretty good ideas, then their agents tried to make some money off them and fucked everything up, this song is about those agents"
That leads me to Wings and his belief that the teachings of all these beliefs are good as long as you follow the actual teachings and not the one put forth by people trying to make money.
Then in Parabola, "This body hold me reminds me of my own mortality, embrace this moment remember we are eternal all this pain is an illusion" Then lateralus "I embrace my desire to
feel the rhythm, to feel connected
enough to step aside and weep like a widow
to feel inspired, to fathom the power,
to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain,
to swing on the spiral
of our divinity and still be a human"
and the fact that god is in the head of both faces on lateralus and 10,000 days means to me, (as an athiest where at one point this was my belief but isn't really anymore) that God is in each of us, we created God to suit our needs and if we were true to the beliefs that we created for ourselves we will get what we hope for in the afterlife.
Judith was Job, horrible things happened to her, but her belief never swayed, she was all that her religion taught her to be, so she deserves to get the greatest reward in the afterlife.
Hope you could follow that.
Short version, teachings of religion good, agents of religion bad, God is in each of us, we are immortal and divine. Judith was as true to her beliefs as anyone could be so she deserves what she hoped for.

[clarity.]

He wrote a song about buttsex. Does that make him homosexual?

[kaspguy]

The atheist argument:

By Christian standards, God is all-powerful. God is all knowing. Evil exists. God is opposed to evil.

How can all these be true? If God were truly all powerful and all knowing, and ALSO opposed to evil, why would he allow it to exist?


That is the common argument, isn't it? But as a christian, I've formed my own beliefs from a mix of a bunch of religions I like. And also read a really good book called when bad things happen to good people. Since it's impossible to know the real answer, we have a pretty good one. How can God be good, all powerful, and allow evil and pain and suffereing to continue? Because he's not all powerful.

**GASP!!**

He's all loving, just not all powerful. And as for the whole "creating satan" thing, who knows? It's probably another myth or story, like pretty much the whole bible.


But I don't think Maynard's found God. Just understand and acceptance. Which is very admirable.

[ArizonaBay]

I had a very profound spiritual experience tonight I feel that I should share here. I have found that all things: ideas, physical goods, logic, and faith are only as valuable as the INDIVIDUAL says.

This, to me, seems to be true openmindedness. Perhaps I'm wrong. But for the 1st time in 4 years of being a junkie/drug fiend I've returned to Christ as best I can. I'm filthy and don't deserve any redemption, but I felt the cleansing after my friend and I shook and cried for an hour straight about the sorrows of life. How all things die and how honestly, logic has no value unless you give it value.

That is not to say we should abandon science, but I do believe it means that one has to take these items for what they're worth.

Who knows, I'm not bitching or preaching at anyone.

Strange, i just had a long discussion about the value of reason/logic and the relationship between science and religion with a friend of mine whos is studying genetics. We came to the conclusion that reason as a bringer of truth is a falsehood because it is impossible to be, as seperate individuals, completely objective about anything, therefore science and religion are one of the same; they both require this leap of faith.

[anfisechka]

This song is very angry. I dont think Maynard believes in a heaven at all. Remember it says 'IF' you see your makers face tonight. Its saying "I hope its all true for your (his mothers) sake and if it is you state your case you look that bastard in the eye and say i deserve my place after how you made me suffer despite my devotion". I think the reason Maynard is holding his mothers faith above the others is not because he believes it himself, but that she still did not having despite having real reason to unlike the others in the congregation who have not known such adversity. I think the really sad thing about the song is that you know Maynard doesnt believe and is heartbroken that the 27 years she spent basically waiting to die were like the Buddhist 10,000 breaths; a preparation for something new but ultimately for nothing.

Nicely said. I think Maynard is taking an agnostic position in this song: not saying he believes or doesn't believe, only stating what he hopes is true, if his mother was right. He doesn't say he doesn't believe out of respect for his mother; but I think all outward indications point to the high unlikeliness that he would ever believe in a god.

[eslupminoyler]

I think many Tool fans are immature people who hate God for the sake of hating God.The fact that this song indicates that maynard is possibly CONSIDERING it embroils you, and you block it out like the closeminded people you truly are.
(If indeed there is one)

Athiesm is washed up and shows that you haven't actually thought it out.(Even if a personal, intelligent "God" doesn't exist, simple logic would dictate that there had to be some spark to start life/matter. (I.e. "God", in whatever form) ) When someone says that they are an athiest it instantly indicates that they just don't have the will to stop and think.
If you are such an athiest then stop telling something that doesn't exist to "fuck off, and just be a goddamn athiest.

"This little light you passed on to me, I'm gonna let it shine" I'm not a fucking Christian fanatic or even a believer, but what I see here is a bunch of pissed off kids. "NO NO! HE FUCKING HATES GOD! THIS SONG IS SARCASTIC!" LOOK at yourselves.STOP and THINK.

I'm not saying this means anything, I was making a suggestion based on some pretty fucking obvious lyrics ( Kind of a contrast from "Fuck your god" and "Come down, get off your fucking cross", don't you think?) and I see a flood of "NO NO! Nothing has changed it's only about his mother" posts. A frenzy of scared people, terrified that they won't be able to identify their favorite lead singer as a fellow "free thinking God hater."

A sarcastic song about something that probably means more to him than his own life? Fucking grow up.
Maybe you'd actually *find* some form of enlightment if you didn't blindly hate the very idea of something beyond your greasy metalhead asses.

I agree. I wrote a similar post about the lack of metaphor in songs with references to Judaic/Christian standpoints.

[Buffalo]

I think Maynard may have become a Christian. The line that really make me think this is:

Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance,
Burden of proof tossed upon the believers.
You were the witness, my eyes, my evidence,
Judith Marie, unconditional one


sounds like he's saying he always made Christians try to prove their religion. He was set in his ways and arrogant about not believing Christianity.

Then he says his mother was his eyes and his evidence. So he put the burden of proof upon Christians, then here is his mother, who became his "evidence."

Perhaps his mother was not "proof" to him of the validity of Christianity, but she was "evidence."

There seems to be a lot less hatred towards Christianity on this album, with more Christian references.


But to me this is a very positive song. Yes, he's angry at her death, but I think he's positive about wherever she is in the after-life. It's probably the most beautiful song I've ever heard. You can feel his anger, and triumph, his sorrow, in his lyrics, the way he sings them, and in the music itself.

[Blanket_509]

Of course Eulogy could be applied to Jesus, but it seems to be less about Jesus and more about people who take advantage of the weaknesses of others in order to feed some sort of ego. When I hear "get off your fuckin' cross", I don't really think , "oh he's talking about Jesus". I feel that the cross he speaks of is figurative; a metaphor for any number of ways a person might wear a story of personal sacrifice in order to make people feel as if they owe him or her something (respect, love, pity, money).


And on second thought, I feel like Eulogy could even be written for Maynard. Think about it. "He had a voice that was strong and loud/and I swallowed his facade cause I'm so eager to identify/with someone above the ground/someone who seemed to feel the same/someone prepared to lead the way/someone who would die for me". Sounds like the voice of your typical high school age Tool fanatic to me.

[Placid_Storm]

Children: let's not forget the line "All you know about me is what I've sold you. Dumbfuck. I sold out long before you ever even heard my name. I sold my soul to make a record, dipshit.. then you bought one!" We are only seeing one facet here. We are only being shown what the artist wants us to see. It can't go any deeper than that. These four people have ordinary lives just like you and I. They take shits, go to the grocery store, perhaps even masturbate from time to time. My point being, don't get too wrapped up in it.