Drug Advice. [Archive] - The Tool Page: Opinion

bellamadia

05-04-2006, 05:53 PM

The only advice I can give you is from my experience. I have never done anything more than smoke weed and drink, but I have seen a LOT:

1. My ex boyfriend had a VERY bad acid trip and freaked out. It involved stitches and a VERY VERY long night. He is normally a chill cool guy and I was scared to death watching him freak out the way he did.

2. I was in college and went to a party with a bunch of people on my floor who all took ecstasy and apparently it was not good because 2 of them had ceizures on the front lawn of the party and we had to call an ambulence.

3. My best friend from college developed a MAJOR coke addiction and has a heart condition as a result

4. An old family friend's son has been in jail for 10 years for several offenses as a result of his heroine addiction which will drive you to do ALL SORTS OF THINGS you never thought you'd do.

5. A friend from HighSchool did heroine for a bit and went through rehab, watching her withdrawl was AWFUL. It looked like the worst disease possible, what a nightmare.

6. This kid I had many classes with in college did a lot of acid from freshman year to senior year and by senior year he was all sorts of retarded and very different mentally than he was 4 years prior.

Perhaps all of the above are why I never did, or never want to, try harder drugs. Not worth the risk.

neutered

05-04-2006, 09:44 PM

The above Maynard quote is pretty good. Try not to rush into it and rather PLAN ahead to some degree (esp. in regards to set and setting...if unfamiliar with this concept see www.erowid.org ). The advice to take them with someone who's done it before is something I'd recommend for newcomers. It's not vital per se, but I definitely think it's a nice reassuring feeling to be there with others and you know they're in the same state of (being out of your) mind as you. Also, it may be a personal preference, but being around large groups of people or people with which you're not comfortable in general should try to be avoided. I find it hard to handle trying to interact with people I'm not close with and often migrate somewhere else to trip out in peace away from other people's social mind games (whether they be real, or often when on shrooms, imagined). Especially on higher doses I become even more socially retarded and cannot deal with making normal conversation beyond what patterns the breathing carpets or wood-grain are producing...

Or the ways you feel interconnected with everything. How everything looks incredibly beautiful, new, different - due to the massive hallucinations which all together cause overwhelming physical euphoria on top of the amusing visuals. Someone posted in here that you can't describe what shrooming is like and you can't understand unless you go through it. I definitely agree with this, but to a point. The ultimate experience is inexpressible in words, and you will FEEL this while peaking. Just a total sense of awe is the best word I can think of. You truly experience what the word "awesome" is supposed to mean.

I think you can describe other aspects of a trip, to whatever degree language alllows. Obviously, you hallucinate: things melt/morph/breathe/pulsate; patterns emerge in everything (walls, ceilings, tiles, rugs, art...); things seem 'more real' than ever, yet usually they look completely absurd due to said melting or however you want to illustrate the unreal movement. Lines blur between boundaries...which leads into the whole mental aspect, which is harder to describe than the open-eyed visuals you get. There is a dissolution of the ego, and this is the part that truly has to be experienced to understand the feeling which is so foreign to how we normal view the world, but that which causes such euphoric thoughts & feelings; a common one I've felt is of "one-ness" with some bigger whole. There's a massive distortion of time esp. after about 1 hour (or sooner if they're rockin) so that it slows down and becomes practically meaningless. It's an oceanic. timeless feeling that has to be FELT. You will laugh your ass off at nothing and everything ("perma-smile"). You may get profoundly deep insights into the universe, life, anything, yet be unable to articulate what this God-sent wisdom is (Rosetta Stoned?)

Well I digressed from the original question here about advice...but I'd also recommend smoking on the way up to help ease the transition/integration phase. Waiting for them to kick in is a hell of a lot smoother when you're stoned (and if you got it, smoke it thruout if you're feeling it). I could go but I'm not sure if anyone is wasting their time reading. anyways www.erowid.org ftw

plexus

05-04-2006, 10:05 PM

shrooms rock ass.

Shadow_walker

05-04-2006, 10:45 PM

I'm intrigued by some things that I've read about peoples experiences with psilocybin mushrooms and I'm pretty keen to find out what they can do for me. But I'm still kinda apprehensive and dont wanna just dive right in without knowing anything.

Any advice on preparing for my first trip? This seems to be the place to ask.

My Advice... Only do them if your alone or with good friends.. I did them this one time when I was visiting a friend in college. We got to his dorm room and we were all tripping ballz and stuff.. My friend and his roomate started throwing paper plates around the room and just basically trying to destroy anything they could get their hands on in their dorm room.. Neither one of them was a very stable person to begin with, they both listen to death metal etc. So anyway.. I decided I had to get away from the fuckers so I went and wandered down the hallway to another dorm room. I just kind of strolled on in and within minutes I found myself sitting around with about 10 guys watching Faces of Death. Oh my fucking god. Worst trip in my life... It is not a good idea to see gruesome images of people and animals being destroyed while shrooming.. So anyway, I passed out somhow.. I remember the sadistic fuckers dragged me along the floor back to my friends dorm room because I was too drunk and shroomed too walk.. I ended up with a huge fucking rug burn... And I still have the scar from it on my back today.. Crazy shit. So yea. Advice, Do them in a save environment where crazy fucks don't watch Faces of Death. Do them around people you can actually trust, or by yourself. Sorry I'm rambling. Wasted.

skeeto

05-05-2006, 12:21 AM

the shroomery is also a valuable source of information.
If you are picking them yourself, research the afore-mentioned web pages AND get someone you know to identify them, don't _just_ rely on descriptions from web pages as there are alot of very small diferences.
research, learn, and listen to people you know.
above all, be smart, not scared. If you are scared, it will ruin your experience.

holotrope

05-05-2006, 12:24 AM

Identity

05-05-2006, 01:12 AM

Shadow_walker

05-05-2006, 01:27 AM

mushrooms are great. but if you want something you can buy at a store i'd recommend dxm. go to the store and buy yourself a bottle of Robitussin Maximum Strength Cold or a pack of Drixoral Cough Liquid Caps. Pick up ONLY these types. other types have other active ingredients which can at worst kill you and at best make you vomit. the Robitussin should be available at Wal Mart or any store for that matter. the drixoral is a little harder to find but worth it, because it is in capsules and has no taste. the robitussin can be pretty nasty to shallow. drink the whole bottle or eat all the capsules. go to erowid.org for more info. there are some other brands as well, but those two are the most trustworthy.

Um I suggest that no one does dxm.. It is the worst fucking trip ever. I was a brain floating in the middle of the universe without a body for about three hours.. It seriously turns your world up side down. I also had strong urges to commit suicide while on the drug.. Fuck you for even giving some people on this forum the idea.

bellamadia

05-05-2006, 05:04 AM

theprosperone

05-05-2006, 06:10 AM

theprosperone

05-05-2006, 06:15 AM

Am I the only one that finds it kind of sad and slightly disturbing that everyone is telling this person how to "learn about drugs and take them safely?" I don't agree with this. Not everyone can handle drugs, no matter how much they research them, no matter how many times they evaluate why they are doing them. Also, it is INCREDIBLY hard to know EXACTLY what is in the drug you are taking. If you get a bad "batch" of anything, it can have serious and permanant effects. Then theres the whole part about addiction, and how it can sometimes take over otherwise good people. Then the issue of responsibility. The things you shouldn't do while you are on drugs, like driving, being around your children, etc. You may think this is common sense, but there are people out there, many people, that do things like this. I just think the negatives outweigh the positive.

Also, I know I will get flamed for this, but why are people trying so hard to find a different "realm," a higher, better feeling, an escape, with the assistance of drugs? Is like really that awful? And if it is, are you not strong enough to find a way to "escape" from it naturally with meditation, yoga, jogging, drawing, listening to music, whatever? I just think resorting to drugs is a weak way "out."

You have obviously never done psychedelics and know nothing about them. Its very easy to know if the lsd or mushrooms you're taking is good. You don't get a bad "batch" if you know what you're doing and don't buy drugs from strangers. Also guess what? Psychedelics are NOT addictive. Its actually impossible because all the major psychedelics have extreme tolerances, to where you can't even trip 3 days in a row because of the huge tolerance your body quickly builds. Its very easy to take drugs and do it responsibly. Also I'd like to add that if you think mushrooms or Lsd is an "escape" or a "weak way out" then you have no idea what you're talking about. Any doubts, fears or insecurities in yourself that you have you will be forced to come to terms with during a deep psychedelic experience. I have made peace with many things while using psychedelics. They are just like everything else, a Tool. Use them with respect and responsibly and they will treat you well. I will agree though that drugs aren't for everyone and you should real up on them a lot first and also not believe all the stupid fucking drug myths out there that plague our society. But to be uninformed about drugs(its obvious if you mention addiction when the topic is mushrooms) and then still try to give your opinion like its fact...well thats just silly.

theprosperone

05-05-2006, 06:16 AM

Heh one more post...

Dxm is not a psychedelic. Dxm is dirty and can cause health problems. Dxm is a dissasociative, just like ketamine and Pcp. If you want to take drugs, mushrooms and lsd are as safe as it gets as long as you know who you're getting it from.

agave21

05-05-2006, 06:47 AM

Just go to Amsterdam......

davelisowski

05-05-2006, 06:55 AM

bellamadia

05-05-2006, 06:57 AM

You have obviously never done psychedelics and know nothing about them.

No, I have not done them and I do know about them, thank you. I CAN read books and observe those around me.

Its very easy to know if the lsd or mushrooms you're taking is good. You don't get a bad "batch" if you know what you're doing and don't buy drugs from strangers.

Perhaps, but only some people are responsible enough to adhere to this strictly. Take college students for example of those that do not often use their best judgement. You often THINK you know someone in college, when you do not. Also, people lie. You often cannot be 100% positive.

Also guess what? Psychedelics are NOT addictive. Its actually impossible because all the major psychedelics have extreme tolerances, to where you can't even trip 3 days in a row because of the huge tolerance your body quickly builds.

I never said they are addicting, never. I said heroine and coke are when I was referring to those drugs.

Its very easy to take drugs and do it responsibly.

Again, I don't believe this. You have to do many things (or work at it) to do drugs responsibly. It takes a commitment, a strong person and intelligence. Unfortunately, I think the world is filled with people that do not have these characteristics.

Also I'd like to add that if you think mushrooms or Lsd is an "escape" or a "weak way out" then you have no idea what you're talking about. Any doubts, fears or insecurities in yourself that you have you will be forced to come to terms with during a deep psychedelic experience. I have made peace with many things while using psychedelics.

I don't mean to offend you but if this is your idea of how you come to terms with your doubts, fears and insecurities, you are sadly mistaken. This is not confrontation and dealing, it is the opposite.

and also not believe all the stupid fucking drug myths out there that plague our society.

Yes, there are definitely urban ledgends out there, but I can ASSURE you that I was being honest in my stories.

But to be uninformed about drugs(its obvious if you mention addiction when the topic is mushrooms) and then still try to give your opinion like its fact...well thats just silly.

Again, you misread my email.

When somebody makes an informed and intelligent decision, it is important to consider both sides and all of the possibilities. Everyone is encouraging this person to do careful research before he dives into drugs, therefore, I am arming him with JUST as useful imformation as you guys are.

eonphi

05-05-2006, 07:29 AM

my advice would be...don't take drugs

neutered

05-05-2006, 07:30 AM

When somebody makes an informed and intelligent decision, it is important to consider both sides and all of the possibilities. Everyone is encouraging this person to do careful research before he dives into drugs, therefore, I am arming him with JUST as useful imformation as you guys are.

While I think your intentions are good, I have to disagree that you are providing useful information in regards to the original poster's questions about mushrooms. Your original post was completely irrelevant as it dealt with observations of other people on other drugs completely different from shrooms (coke, heroin, ecstasy). The fact that you haven't done them doesn't totally invalidate what you're saying, but it's difficult to give advice about something you've never experienced. Some of the stuff you've said is not "useful information" IMO, such as talking about someone who's personality changed from doing acid over four years. I'm not aruging your description of this, but complete personality change due to psychedelic use would be the exception, not the rule. Maybe some normal alterance of world-view, but not complete change...who knows he might not have been using them responsibly, which I think was a good point of yours and what everyone here is trying to say by advocating objective information thru research.

If someone is naturally interested in tripping for whatever reasons I don't think they need to be discouraged by scare stories, let alone about other drugs. There's enough propaganga/stigmatization of drug use in society as it is. I think drugs have done some good things for people, I really do....

You have to do many things (or work at it) to do drugs responibly. It takes a committment, a strong person and intelligence. Unfortunately, I think the world is filled with people that do not have these characteristics

I agree to a certain extent, but you ultimately cannot control to what degree someone will behave responsibly - only provide the information available. It's the same way with legal things like alcohol. I don't know if this is the best analogy, but millions of people do not drink "responsibly". All the DUIs, physical/sexual assaults, etc that come as a result of weak persons or stupid people (let's call them retards) drinking to excess. Most people would argue there's nothing wrong with drinking, getting wasted, whatever. But when retards start doing stupid shit while drunk, while on ANYTHING, then the substance gets blamed as the problem and not the person themselves/their characteristics

bellamadia

05-05-2006, 07:38 AM

While I think your intentions are good, I have to disagree that you are providing useful information in regards to the original poster's questions about mushrooms. Your original post was completely irrelevant as it dealt with observations of other people on other drugs completely different from shrooms (coke, heroin, ecstasy).

I see what you are saying, I am bringing up other drugs because I choose this thread as my venue to speak about drugs in general. I see that this may have not been where I should have done it.

I agree to a certain extent, but you ultimately cannot control to what degree someone will behave responsibly - only provide the information available. It's the same way with legal things like alcohol. I don't know if this is the best analogy, but millions of people do not drink "responsibly". All the DUIs, physical/sexual assaults, etc that come as a result of weak persons or stupid people (let's call them retards) drinking to excess. Most people would argue there's nothing wrong with drinking, getting wasted, whatever. But when retards start doing stupid shit while drunk, while on ANYTHING, then the substance becomes the problem and not the person themselves/their characteristics

Yes, you are correct to some degree. Allthough, I have these same concerns and issues with alcohol and weed, though I have done both. I think many people do all drugs and alcohol irresponsibly and abuse them. I have a hard time respecting people that do that.

blair's man sausage

05-05-2006, 07:52 AM

Parabolee

05-05-2006, 08:47 AM

Well I think we can agree that Loveboat Captain is being responssible, gaining advice and doing some research before he steps into this paticular void.

Good luck to you, taking mushrooms was the most defining and exciting experience of my life. NO other experience comes close to mushrooms.

Most important things are -

* Start with a LOW dose

* Be in a SAFE secure FRIENDLY enviroment with a close friend that you trust 100% (who is also taking part).

* Read as much research as you can before you start, especially on where to obtain safe mushrooms.

neutered

05-05-2006, 10:13 AM

Most important things are -

* Start with a LOW dose

That's debatable depending on how you define low. I'd recommend something above average & definitely above threshold level. There's a nice chart on erowid breaking up dosage and intensity of trip. Half of an 1/8 would be the smallest dosage I'd say would be good for a first trip. I'm sure it's a personal preference, but I wouldn't want to eat like less than a gram or something and be loving it but knowing that you could be feeling it so much more, experiencing the full range of effects, etc. But I like to trip my face off. Take a decent amount (half an 1/8 to 1/8) and you'll be melting into your chair and the trees outside will be smiling at you.

StereoScopicLenses

05-05-2006, 10:18 AM

Where do all these people get Mushrooms??? I haven't munched on the magik strain in over a year. Time to find some and listen to 10k Days again. I love shrooms. They are fun every now and then. I can't find any around here. Been looking for months. Shit. Send me some in the mail somebody!! haha

StereoScopicLenses

05-05-2006, 10:20 AM

ANyone with questions should jsut go to EROWID.ORG its like a scientific journal for drugs

Bcguitar33

05-05-2006, 12:06 PM

ALWAYS make sure that, for your first time, you are near somebody who
1) You trust completely
2) Has had experience with them.

If you don't know anybody like that, wait until you do to try them. It's the best way you can protect yourself. And it's best that they remain lucid.

theprosperone

05-05-2006, 05:01 PM

No, I have not done them and I do know about them, thank you. I CAN read books and observe those around me.

If you haven't been there then you don't know about it, period. People who have just eaten 1hit of acid or taken mushrooms once or twice don't know about "it" either. They've had a taste but still I don't think that with one or three experiences you can truly relax and involved yourself more in the experience.There is a huge difference between psychedelic drugs being used for recreation and being used for spirituality. You may be able to read books but that doesn't mean that the books you're reading and believe are completely accurate. Hell, have you read the anarchist's cookbook? Can you make Lsd from Foster's beer? Fuck no, but the book tells you that you can. Do some reading on Ayahuasca, Dmt or Mdma psychotherapy. How about reading about the studies which are going on involving terminally ill cancer patients and Psilocybin from psychedelic mushrooms. Also read the electric kool-aid acid test if you would like to understand a little about Lsd. Maybe some work by Timothy Leary or Hoffman himself? What books have you been reading which are about drugs?

I know quite a few people who use psychedelics, mdma and marijuana often.I myself do too. They have careers, great family lives and they live their lives happily. They are all very responsible and intelligent people who don't just take stupid risks to get high. Maybe you just happen to know a lot of loser drug users? Maybe you are in college and only know people from a certain age range? Some of the people that I know are 30 to 50 years old.

If you don't think that people can deal with and solve problems on psychedelic drugs you're just in denial. Maybe not everyone can...just like everyone doesn't get help by just seeing a therapist or choking down wellbutrin or prozac. Did you know that chronic marijuana smoking has been ljnked to lower levels of anxiet and depression in adults? Its because it stimulates cell reproduction in the part of the brain which controls those feelings.

What I'm trying to show you here by talking to you about this is that there is a very big upside to drugs, mainly psychedelics and marijuana. A lot of people use drugs for the wrong reaons but that doesn't mean that a lot of people don't use them for the right reasons. Lsd and psychedelic mushrooms are very easy to find and be sure that you're getting clean drugs. If you're familiar with any mycology you'll know that there are several different ways to identify mushrooms too.

Anyways I've gotten long winded here but it seems to me you have a very uninformed opinion and also a very narrow view into what types of people use drugs. I wish you would just open your mind and be open to the idea that what you know isn't going to the what things are really like in other places or in different groups of people. You obviously missed earlier where I said drugs are just a tool and can be used in a good or bad way.

Really psychedelic drugs only explore what is already in your brain. The key to having a good experience is to be open minded and accepting enough to see whatever might be hidden inside. If that thought really scares you, you might not want to take them.

*FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN MUSHROOM INFORMATION*

www.mycotopia.net

Seriously, that place has a lot of really intelligent people who know a lot of information.

escapeme

05-05-2006, 10:41 PM

I'd have to agree. The only thing I can add is not to do them alone for the first time. Take them with a friend who is taking them with you or with someone experienced. Just don't take them around a bunch of nards that have no clue. Even if those nards are your best friend(s). Because "no one will ever understand unless theyve been through it also."

"Have you ever been Experienced? Well I have."

I agree.... Most important thing but I would even go as far as suggesting doing it with someone experienced and not with a first timer. the power of suggestion is so strong and an experienced person would be able to steer you in the right direction if it got too intense. Just remember to sit back, enjoy what you feel and see and dont try to think to hard about it you will be doing that already!

One more thing. Noone will be able to prepare you for what you will experience because the experience is different with each and every person. There are similarities with how it makes you feel physically and everyone knows there are visuals but its the mental state in which is the actual 'experience' and no two trips (even for the same person) are alike.

bellamadia

05-05-2006, 10:54 PM

........I know quite a few people who use psychedelics, mdma and marijuana often.I myself do too....

First, thank you for calling some of my friends losers, that's nice of you. You DO NOT know me, and you DO NOT know my friends, so please, do not be a jerk. I am not attacking you, yet somehow you are taking this so personally. Why are you so defensive? I was merely doing two things, one, informing this kid of the negatives I have seen as a result of drugs and two, sharing my view on what drugs mean to me. You don't have to agree with me, I'm ok with that. But please do not insult me, or my intelligence. I am not going to sit here and try to prove myself to you by telling you my degree, my gpa, my career, my age, my social status or any of the other things to defend what your post was implying about me. What I am going to do for you, and everyone else that may be reading my posts, is try to explain myself differently so that I feel I am being accurately portrayed...

FIRST, I am not saying that psychedelic drugs are BAD nor GOOD. I DO think psychedelics have negative side effects for MANY people in this world, because MANY people cannot handle them. I do not see how anyone can deny this. If you do not want to hear it from me, Maynard has said it and so have Alex Grey and several others whose words may hold some more value than some girl on the tool site.

I also understand that there are many artists that I admire throughout history and MOST of these artists did psychedelic drugs that inspired the work that I love so much. MOST of the music I love is done by artists that have been inspired by psychedelics. I also know that there are normal people with careers and families that do psychedelics. I am NOT calling any of these people losers, irresponsible or unintelligent.

What I am saying is all of us are HUMAN, no matter how talented, how many kids you have, what your job is.... We are all people that live life and sometimes life is hard, sometimes shit happens to us, sometimes we get depressed, sometimes we get angry, sometimes we get lost and cant find our way, etc. As a result of these things, we look for a crutch, something to get us through... and drugs are one of these things. Again, I don't think you can deny that.

What is sad to me is that people feel they even NEED to have a crutch in the first place. It makes me sad that people cannot look within themselves for the guidance and answers they need, naturally, without the assistance of drugs or anything else. It makes me sad that I question if all the art and music I love would not have been made without drugs. It makes me sad think that THIS reality is so uninspiring to some people that they feel they have to use psychedelics for answers and inspiration. I could go on in this manner about many things, but I think I've made my point.

I know that this all doesn't matter. If the end result is something positive, like an amazing piece of art or a great song... why should I care how they got there? In many ways I don't, otherwise I wouldn't love the artists and musicians that I love like The Beatles, Doors, Pink Floyd, NIN, Tool, Salvador Dali, Most artists in the Dada movement, Alex Grey, Walt fuckin Disney... and on. Do I think these people are amazing? YES. Does the fact that they did psychedelics to create their work make them any less talented? NO. BUT as I mention above, it makes me sad to think that this is the way the world is. Maybe it doesn't make any sense... but it's how I feel. I choose to try to deal with life naturally. Does that make me any better than anyone else? NO. But I have a right to share my opinion with others and perhaps make them see a different side when they ask about using drugs.

I don't think that is offensive or wrong.

Azathoth23

05-05-2006, 11:34 PM

Stay away from mass quantities of people. Also remember everything you do you made the choice to be there. Your experience will be your own. No one else can tell you how yours will be because they are not you. Be around people you trust. I cant stress enough that it will be your exprience and yours alone. Much the same way that you dont see a tree or the sky the same way i do. You may see clouds as coagulated moisture. I may see them as giant demons coming to steal my soul. You get the point. And im not going to name any names (bellamadia), But if a person has never done it before than they dont know. Sometimes psychedelics just amplify whats already there. Thats why i think some people have bad trips. Sometimes at least. Like i said no two trips will ever be alike.

theprosperone

05-06-2006, 06:19 AM

First, thank you for calling some of my friends losers, that's nice of you. You DO NOT know me, and you DO NOT know my friends, so please, do not be a jerk. I am not attacking you, yet somehow you are taking this so personally. Why are you so defensive? I was merely doing two things, one, informing this kid of the negatives I have seen as a result of drugs and two, sharing my view on what drugs mean to me. You don't have to agree with me, I'm ok with that. But please do not insult me, or my intelligence. I am not going to sit here and try to prove myself to you by telling you my degree, my gpa, my career, my age, my social status or any of the other things to defend what your post was implying about me. What I am going to do for you, and everyone else that may be reading my posts, is try to explain myself differently so that I feel I am being accurately portrayed...

FIRST, I am not saying that psychedelic drugs are BAD nor GOOD. I DO think psychedelics have negative side effects for MANY people in this world, because MANY people cannot handle them. I do not see how anyone can deny this. If you do not want to hear it from me, Maynard has said it and so have Alex Grey and several others whose words may hold some more value than some girl on the tool site.

I also understand that there are many artists that I admire throughout history and MOST of these artists did psychedelic drugs that inspired the work that I love so much. MOST of the music I love is done by artists that have been inspired by psychedelics. I also know that there are normal people with careers and families that do psychedelics. I am NOT calling any of these people losers, irresponsible or unintelligent.

What I am saying is all of us are HUMAN, no matter how talented, how many kids you have, what your job is.... We are all people that live life and sometimes life is hard, sometimes shit happens to us, sometimes we get depressed, sometimes we get angry, sometimes we get lost and cant find our way, etc. As a result of these things, we look for a crutch, something to get us through... and drugs are one of these things. Again, I don't think you can deny that.

What is sad to me is that people feel they even NEED to have a crutch in the first place. It makes me sad that people cannot look within themselves for the guidance and answers they need, naturally, without the assistance of drugs or anything else. It makes me sad that I question if all the art and music I love would not have been made without drugs. It makes me sad think that THIS reality is so uninspiring to some people that they feel they have to use psychedelics for answers and inspiration. I could go on in this manner about many things, but I think I've made my point.

I know that this all doesn't matter. If the end result is something positive, like an amazing piece of art or a great song... why should I care how they got there? In many ways I don't, otherwise I wouldn't love the artists and musicians that I love like The Beatles, Doors, Pink Floyd, NIN, Tool, Salvador Dali, Most artists in the Dada movement, Alex Grey, Walt fuckin Disney... and on. Do I think these people are amazing? YES. Does the fact that they did psychedelics to create their work make them any less talented? NO. BUT as I mention above, it makes me sad to think that this is the way the world is. Maybe it doesn't make any sense... but it's how I feel. I choose to try to deal with life naturally. Does that make me any better than anyone else? NO. But I have a right to share my opinion with others and perhaps make them see a different side when they ask about using drugs.

I don't think that is offensive or wrong.

Wow, I asked you a few questions and you pretty much dodged everyone of them, probably because I was spot on with my assumptions. How about those books you've read about drugs huh? I never said that psychedelics were for everyone either. Why do I get offended? Because you say things like, "We are all people that live life and sometimes life is hard, sometimes shit happens to us, sometimes we get depressed, sometimes we get angry, sometimes we get lost and cant find our way, etc. As a result of these things, we look for a crutch, something to get us through... and drugs are one of these things." I'm sorry, but since I've matured and grown into an adult I've moved past that and its not how I handle my problems. If you'll actually read and comprehend my post you'll see that I'm not attacking you, I'm simply trying to inform you. You've given no real information on why to beward of drugs other than "not everyone can handle them" (which I also stated earlier in case you missed that....any that friends of yours have freaked out and had a hard time using drugs responsibly. Jeez, now you're just going back on what you were hinting at earlier and just talking about how many people use drugs and its fine. Why sit in the fence when you seemed so against it before I said anything? I was hoping for a real discussion, not avoid what was in each others posts.

2and46

05-06-2006, 07:12 AM

win

05-06-2006, 07:45 AM

I'm intrigued by some things that I've read about peoples experiences with psilocybin mushrooms and I'm pretty keen to find out what they can do for me. But I'm still kinda apprehensive and dont wanna just dive right in without knowing anything.

Any advice on preparing for my first trip? This seems to be the place to ask.

The first thing is certainly to educate your self. Read and ask about like this. Thats good and helps you remember it is in your head when its going on. 'Knowledge is power' :) Also psychadelics are not like alcohol were being 'more drunk' is like wilder and more fun. Less is better. If you are taking mushrooms I recomend take an 1/8 or less- more likely 2 grams is appropriate for the first time. Also, obviously have a friend with you that is tripping so you don't feel alone, but anothe friendr who is not for safety reasons. I had a very bad experience with mushrooms when I took too much, and it was a horrible trip and I rarely (may be once a year now) do any of that anymore. Even then though I was learning about myself. If you are safe about psyrchadelics and sparing in their consumption you can learn a lot about you subconcious beliefs and confront your emotions in an attempt to understand your self. Have fun!

PS Random thing that helps me sometimes. I like to have one person around me also that is on XTC. They keep the mood very positive and offer unconditional friendship at the time. :)

PPS if you have more questions feel free to message me

bellamadia

05-06-2006, 08:50 AM

Why do I get offended? Because you say things like, "We are all people that live life and sometimes life is hard, sometimes shit happens to us, sometimes we get depressed, sometimes we get angry, sometimes we get lost and cant find our way, etc. As a result of these things, we look for a crutch, something to get us through... and drugs are one of these things." I'm sorry, but since I've matured and grown into an adult I've moved past that and its not how I handle my problems.

Again, this isn't about YOU. This is about MY opinion on drugs and me telling this person that started this thread about MY opinion. You are arguing, debating or whatever you want to call it, something that wasn't ever about you.

Perhaps you can handle drugs well, and they do great things for you, etc. I am not doubting that... but everyone on here is givng this kid advice on how to take drugs responsibly... but not ONE person (or at least none of the posts I read) ask him about his lifestyle, personality, psychological backtound, etc. No offense to the person that started the post, but for all we know, he could be an anxiety ridden, nervous and depressed person. Taking psycedelics would be a very bad idea for him. NOT EVERYONE is like you say you are. Plain and simple.

bellamadia

05-06-2006, 09:07 AM

There is a huge difference between psychedelic drugs being used for recreation and being used for spirituality.

Per your last post, I will respond just to make you happy, lol. I don't believe that the spirituality that is supposedly attained by the use of psychedelics is REAL. There are other ways to find spirituality.

You may be able to read books but that doesn't mean that the books you're reading and believe are completely accurate. Hell, have you read the anarchist's cookbook? Can you make Lsd from Foster's beer? Fuck no, but the book tells you that you can. Do some reading on Ayahuasca, Dmt or Mdma psychotherapy. How about reading about the studies which are going on involving terminally ill cancer patients and Psilocybin from psychedelic mushrooms. Also read the electric kool-aid acid test if you would like to understand a little about Lsd. Maybe some work by Timothy Leary or Hoffman himself? What books have you been reading which are about drugs?

I understand what you are saying here. None of us truely know the real TRUTH about many things. I am not claming to KNOW anything. I am giving my opinion and my opinion is based on my experience and things I have learned from books, etc. To be honest I can't recall titles or artists of the books I read, it was for a thesis paper 7 years ago, I can go look back in my old hope chest in the basement and try to find them.

If you don't think that people can deal with and solve problems on psychedelic drugs you're just in denial. Maybe not everyone can...just like everyone doesn't get help by just seeing a therapist or choking down wellbutrin or prozac. Did you know that chronic marijuana smoking has been ljnked to lower levels of anxiet and depression in adults? Its because it stimulates cell reproduction in the part of the brain which controls those feelings.

We don't agree, you do not have to say I am in denial. I don't believe drugs present you any TRUE and REAL answers, or help you get through life. FYI, I am not a big fan of some perscription drugs either( and before you write a post back I can predict you to say, what about drugs for people with cancer, yadda yadda... there is definite POSITIVE uses for perscription drugs.. I'm taking about other cases like prozac, pain killers, ridilin, etc.) I think they are overly perscribed and just a mask to help people to deal. It doesn't SOLVE anything. I am the type of person that believes in getting to the CAUSE of a problem, not masking it. For example, I have BAD back pain every day. The Dr. tries to give me pain killers all the time, but I REFUSE to take them. I know they would make me feel better, but it is not getting to the route of my problem, it's not FIXING my problem. Therefore I look for ways to get to the cause, ie. excercise, yoga, pilates, mental control (Dr. Sarno writes some great stuff on this). I am working on it and believe that I can help myself without drugs.

I think I said everything else in my last post.

Loveboat Captain

05-06-2006, 09:24 AM

Also, I know I will get flamed for this, but why are people trying so hard to find a different "realm," a higher, better feeling, an escape, with the assistance of drugs? Is like really that awful? And if it is, are you not strong enough to find a way to "escape" from it naturally with meditation, yoga, jogging, drawing, listening to music, whatever? I just think resorting to drugs is a weak way "out."

I meditate and get a great feling of escape from it. Thats why I'm questioning if I need drugs. While meditating I have had a feeling that I've left my body, but I wasnt dreaming, because I was concious.

Thanks for all the advice.

Matt8

05-06-2006, 09:48 AM

neutered

05-06-2006, 11:11 AM

I don't believe that the spirituality that is supposedly attained by the use of psychedelics is REAL. There are other ways to find spirituality.

I wanted to point out that just because you don't believe that psychedelics cannot be used as a tool to achieve a level/sense of spirituality doesn't mean it's not valid for other people. I don't think that there's a way to achieve spirituality thru Wicca or (insert neo-pagan idea) here any more do I think that Jesus died for me & follow that path to spirituality. BUT lots of people do, so it's not worth discounting any more than "psychedelic enlightment" or whatever you want to call it. Then again, I've never truly TRIED/EXPERIENCED these other paths, although I rationalize why such practices logically don't make sense to me. For instance, I've never truly explored Scientology because I think that a galactic ruler called Xenu and that whole story is too out there (not to mention have to PAY). I've never tried any of the Thelemic/occult studies Danny Carey is supposedly into. I guess my point is that while I don't believe these other methods, I would not claim they're not real because I have not studied or experienced anything within the systems. Maybe I could cast some killer spells if I tried?

I'm not claiming this to be THE truth or anything, merely giving my opinion like you did. But there's some other people who have similar views...stolen from another thread, stole from Maynard:

“I think psychedelics play a major part in what we do, but having said that, I feel that if somebody's going to experiment with those things they really need to educate themselves about them. People just taking the chemicals and diving in without having any kind of preparation about what they're about to experience tend to have no frame of reference, so they're missing everything flying by and all these new perspectives. It's just a waste. They reach a little bit of spiritual enlightenment, but they end up going, 'Well, now I need that drug to get back there again.' The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug.” -- MJK

It doesn't SOLVE anything. I am the type of person that believes in getting to the CAUSE of a problem, not masking it.

In agreement completely w/the POV regarding prescriptions. Most people want a quick-fix, a panacea, rather than actually address the underlying issues/emotions that are the root of the problem. And I think the overprescription is a problem, but they can be used correctly and assist people in treatment (like if combined with psychological therapy for anxiety). Likewise, responsible use of psychedelics would be using as a supplement of sorts that one has prepared for, as opposed to eating them at a prom (I saw that in another thread).

There's a book I got from the library, "Flesh of the Gods: The Ritual Use of Hallucinogens" ed. Peter Furst, that contains an overview of hallucinogen use (incorporating shamanism usually) among various cultures. It includes, mushrooms, cannabis, peyote, and more (The Supreme Court recently ruled to allow a group of Native Americans to continue to use peyote for religious purposes). There is arguably quite clear evidence of ritual use of mushrooms in (Mexican) cultures of the past based on archeaological finds & accounts by Spanish conquerors. There's a picture in the book from Guatemala, ~ 500 BC that is a "mushroom effigy:" a anthropomorphic jaguar/human creature at the base of a stone carved like a mushroom. The last chapter is entitled "Hallucinogens and the Shamanic Origins of Religion". Again, I'm not advocating this or saying it's fact, but rather trying to show that there have been countless groups of people in the past for whom this was definitely real, as well as the scholars who write about it, theorize about it, etc. Terrence McKenna and all his wacky ideas were espoused in a book with the same title as the first half of the title above. Some of his stuff is a little out there, but basically he equates human evolution in terms of language, religion, consciousness, and evertying else inextricably tied together...with psychedelic drug use. I know there's other Tool fans familiar w/him.

I'm not saying anyone should start a psilocybin church or anything, just that there are ideas like these that differ from (many?) people's concepts of religion that come from the organized Big 3.

bellamadia

05-06-2006, 01:01 PM

I meditate and get a great feling of escape from it. Thats why I'm questioning if I need drugs. While meditating I have had a feeling that I've left my body, but I wasnt dreaming, because I was concious.

Thanks for all the advice.

Thanks. I think it's great that you can escape naturally. Listen, you do what you feel is best for you. Only you know. Just remember, you NEVER NEED drugs. At least you are very smart to think about it thoroughly before you dive in. Good luck and be safe. :)

bellamadia

05-06-2006, 01:02 PM

i loves me some mushrooms. keeps my mind in that flow between acid trips. i space out my acid trips now to avoid psychosis. personally halucinating all the time dosent sound to bad but since 2 of my friends are both absolutely crazy now from taking too much and taking Syd Barretts example i play it safe. i got tool acid once. had the third eye by Cam de Leon on it. it was intense. mushrooms are much more tame and dont really change you but i find acid has made me a different person. not in a bad way but it will change your perspective on things.

Hey at least you admit that it does screw with some peoples heads so much that it makes them all fucked up. Hope you stay cool with it.

bellamadia

05-06-2006, 01:14 PM

I wanted to point out that just because you don't believe that psychedelics cannot be used as a tool to achieve a level/sense of spirituality doesn't mean it's not valid for other people. I don't think that there's a way to achieve spirituality thru Wicca or (insert neo-pagan idea) here any more do I think that Jesus died for me & follow that path to spirituality. BUT lots of people do, so it's not worth discounting any more than "psychedelic enlightment" or whatever you want to call it. Then again, I've never truly TRIED/EXPERIENCED these other paths, although I rationalize why such practices logically don't make sense to me. For instance, I've never truly explored Scientology because I think that a galactic ruler called Xenu and that whole story is too out there (not to mention have to PAY). I've never tried any of the Thelemic/occult studies Danny Carey is supposedly into. I guess my point is that while I don't believe these other methods, I would not claim they're not real because I have not studied or experienced anything within the systems. Maybe I could cast some killer spells if I tried?

I'm not claiming this to be THE truth or anything, merely giving my opinion like you did.

Fair enough. Totally respect your opinion. (by the way, the reason I am "arguing" so much with the other guy on here is because he is so defensive that he provokes me) You, on the other hand are being quite reasonable about it.

Anyway, you are right in a way with what you say above. Perhaps that is why I have an issue with a lot that has to do with organized religion. There is no ONE BIG TRUTH in my opinion. If someone feels that going to Catholic mass every Sunday or praying facing Mecca, etc. is making them more spiritual, then good for them, I'm glad they have something. The same could apply to psychedelics. I just so happen to believe that none of them are probably truth, particularly the psychedelics because its so far fetched from reality.. much like Scientology is to me, etc.

The only difference with religions, etc. is that believing in them is not potentially harmful to this precious life and body we were given. For all any of us KNOW, this is all we get. We should treat it kindly, with respect, and embrace it with a clear mind and heart.

theprosperone

05-06-2006, 01:33 PM

theprosperone

05-06-2006, 01:35 PM

i loves me some mushrooms. keeps my mind in that flow between acid trips. i space out my acid trips now to avoid psychosis. personally halucinating all the time dosent sound to bad but since 2 of my friends are both absolutely crazy now from taking too much and taking Syd Barretts example i play it safe. i got tool acid once. had the third eye by Cam de Leon on it. it was intense. mushrooms are much more tame and dont really change you but i find acid has made me a different person. not in a bad way but it will change your perspective on things.

Funny, people would say that mushrooms fuck you up permanently but acid never will....

The real truth is that if your mind can't handle the drugs, it doesn't matter if its shrooms or acid....the truths inside yourself that you aren't ready to face up to are what ends up biting your ass in the end. If you don't think mushrooms are as powerful as acid, eat a quarter ounce of some good shrooms and then let me know.

theprosperone

05-06-2006, 01:37 PM

Man, I just realized this isn't even like me. I will admit that she hit a nerve, mainly because I spend a lot of time informing people about the real risks of using psychedelics and also teaching how to cultivate many kinds of mushrooms for themselves, not just psychedelics either.

I bet that bellawhatever doesn't understand that uninformed opinions on drugs effect some people the same way as uninformed ramblings regarding religion or politics.

If you haven't taken psychedelic drugs you have absolutely no right to judge them. If you've ever heard that there stychnine in Lsd, that lsd stores in your spine, that lsd makes your brain bleed...they are all urban legends about drugs.That is part of the reason that I get defensive. People still believe that ecstacy causes wholes in your brain...it isn't true. The study that people used to back that was actually conducted using Methamphetamines, not Mdma. Its very easy for stupid drug rumours to get started and I hate to them perpetuated when the people doing so can't even back up their opinions with more than a, "my friend told me so".

I've seen psychdelics save lives, I've seen them pull people from the brink of depression and suicide. Maybe it isn't for everyone but then again neither is tattoos, piercings or church. Its all up for the individual to decide but making a factual and informed opinion. When people interfere with that, I get defensive.

I would be more than happy to talk with anyone over aim one on one of they want the facts about anything I've mentioned. I'll even give you the negative possibilities, I don't sugar coat anything. I just hate seeing poor information being put out there. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone or come off as a know it all asshole. That was not my intention but I guess that I have difficultly expressing myself online without coming off a little over the top.

Teratoma

05-06-2006, 01:54 PM

my advice would be...don't take drugs

Wow, here I was thinking I was the only one.

bellamadia

05-06-2006, 02:01 PM

Wow, here I was thinking I was the only one.

:) Read my posts.

bellamadia

05-06-2006, 02:12 PM

Man, I just realized this isn't even like me. I will admit that she hit a nerve, mainly because I spend a lot of time informing people about the real risks of using psychedelics and also teaching how to cultivate many kinds of mushrooms for themselves, not just psychedelics either.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone or come off as a know it all asshole. That was not my intention but I guess that I have difficultly expressing myself online without coming off a little over the top.

If this is an apology for discounting my opinion, I accept. I was never arguing because you had a different opinion than me, it was because you were distorting my words into generalizations that you heard form other people. For example, I NEVER said acid makes your brain bleed (lol, that's just funny) or that ectasey puts holes in your brain or even close to any of those things you mentioned. I also feel that you were passing off everything you said as facts, and some of it was opinion.... it's dangerous to confuse the 2. Regardless, we ARE saying the same thing that drugs aren't for everyone. I certainly am not preaching here to anyone. I'm not putting anyone down or saying I'm any better. Just offering the other views that are out there is this world on drugs. I realize that this view might be the minority in the world of a TOOL fan site, however, outside of these types of venues there are many people that feel/believe the same as I do.

bellamadia

05-06-2006, 02:21 PM

I'd love to see Bellamadie eat a ten trip of Lsd and then try to tell me that the spirtual things you experience on drugs aren't real. Open your mind up a little and realize that your opinion is uninformed and ignorant. You still haven't said one single source other than "friends" that you've gotten your information from.

Psychedelics only open up what is inside your head already. It is as real as what is always lingering on the inside of your brain. Jesus, I never thought there would be so many closed minded and ignorant people on a Tool messageboard, then again it is the internet so I guess it is to be expected.

I'm only defensive because you state your ignorant and uninformed opinion as fact. I'd hate for some poor soul to read your post and get scared away from something that might otherwise be an enlightening experience. Drugs can be dangerous but so can everything else in life.

I swear, the intro to Third Eye on the Salival cd must be completely fucking lost on you.

SHIT, I read your last post and thought you decided to play nice, but then I scroll up and see this shit. YOU open up your fucking mind to other people's perspective. YOU are being just as, or possible more, close minded than I am. You do NOT know everything and honestly, the fact that you are so defensive makes you seem very insecure. You may not be that way, but you are making yourself look that way.

I have ZERO desire to take lsd thank you. I don't have these amazing mind control capabilities to meditate like some others were referring to here, but I will say... I am generally a happy person, I deal with life pretty well, I am creative, I am talented at art and creative writing, I am philisophical and I enjoy analyzing things, learning, and debating, I am spiritual, etc.... and I am all of those things WITHOUT the use of lsd and I feel good about that. I do not need it for any of this. You may say I am missing out, but then again others say that having an orgasm while being asphyxiated is so much better, but I'm ok with never experiencing that too. lol

And by the way, acid may play around with what is already in your head but if you need to take something in order to do that, then it's not what your head is naturally supposed to do. LOGIC, it's an amazing thing. Fucking with the order and balance of chemicals in your brain is a dangerous thing.

I'm done debating with you. It's obvious you are very narrow minded. Good luck.

HolyReality

05-06-2006, 02:36 PM

bellamadia

05-06-2006, 03:15 PM

agreed. with no offense to bellamadia.

None taken. And a comment on the songs being lost on me... perhaps the true MEANING is "lost" on me, however I enjoy those songs for the talent that exudes from them. The amazingly done music, etc.

M.Luther

05-06-2006, 03:42 PM

Um I suggest that no one does dxm.. It is the worst fucking trip ever. I was a brain floating in the middle of the universe without a body for about three hours.. It seriously turns your world up side down. I also had strong urges to commit suicide while on the drug.. Fuck you for even giving some people on this forum the idea.

Yea, I agree I unwittingly did this some years ago when I was at work and sick. I was nursing a cold on a empty stomach, big fucking mistake. aside from the disassociative effects there was also a nasty come down of depression, confusion and dry heaving. DXM is more of a drug to do, when nothing else is available.

Azathoth23

05-06-2006, 03:52 PM

Read "Prometheus rising" by Robert anton wilson.

StereoScopicLenses

05-06-2006, 03:55 PM

Just 2 weeks ago some people in the apt next to mine had a CRAZY SHROOM TRIP... haha I just want to share what I saw. Shrooms are fun unless you are stupid like these people in apt. 421. They were havin apparently a great shroom trip and at some point in the night decided to get naked and jump off their 2nd story balcony. Thinking they could fly or something. Dumbasses haha. Anyways an ambulance had to come get them because they hurt themselves on the fall. I love taking shrooms but for god sakes people. Don't think you can FLY. You have to remember its only a trip and eventually you will come down.

M.Luther

05-06-2006, 03:59 PM

Read "Prometheus rising" by Robert anton wilson.
also, anything by Terence McKenna.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrence_mckenna

Go to the "external links" and you'll find alot of fun and interesting facts.

Azathoth23

05-06-2006, 04:12 PM

also, anything by Terence McKenna.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrence_mckenna

Go to the "external links" and you'll find alot of fun and interesting facts.

info- psychology by timothy leary
and in fact anything by leary and wilson. Also if you have access to a sensory deprivation tank try it out its amazing.

GreenSmurf

05-06-2006, 04:14 PM

Well, let me start by saying I am not one to be proud of the choices I have made but I am proud of the life I now live. I am clean. Adise from a cig and a drink on occasion I do not give in to drugs.

When I was sixteen years old I began to use methanphedimes at the advice of a friend. I became an addict within the first week of using the substance. I was 'tweaking' about 4 times a day for about four or five days at a time.
At first it seemed like a wonder drug; I could stay up for hours, do homework all night, draw and paint for hours on end, lost weight and did not hav eto spend money on food, and even sex seemed to be improved.
After a few months of this I began to look ill- no I did not have holes in my skin because I thought there were bugs under my skin, but rather I had huge bags under my eyes, I lost about 50% of my body weight, and teeth were becoming yellow.
During this period something else happened to me. I began to use heroin. Well, I decided to kick the meth habit but not the heroin and this began a slow and steady downward spiral. I continued to lose weight, became constipated for days, and look ill but thought I was alright because I felt good.
At some point between running out of money and begining to see a nice christian girl I stopped all drug use and not a moment too soon. My friend that helped get me started died only two weeks after I quit. Only days after that our mutual friend was arrested for murdering an old man while trying to find money for crack.

I think that is all I have to say. I have been clean for almost four years now.
By the way, you know you are an addict when thinking of the drug makes you feel like it is coarsing through your veins again.

To anyone who knows me; please do not think less of me.

Loveboat Captain

05-06-2006, 04:22 PM

Congratulations.

GreenSmurf

05-06-2006, 04:29 PM

Congratulations.

thx?

theprosperone

05-06-2006, 04:37 PM

Meth, coke and heroin are very addictive and I've only been talking in relation to psychedelics. I've known some very fine people that got into a lot of trouble because of those 3 drugs. They all affect your health very negatively.

Bella, I'm only discounting your opinion because you can't seem to site any real evidence for anything you present about psychedelics. I am sorry that I haven't been able to discuss it without offending you. I understand thats no way to get your point across. I guess I've just been through this dance with enough people that it is easy for me to just assume you won't understand or at least be open to the ideas I talk about regarding drugs.

As for the people who supposedly jumped off of their balcony...I've heard a story like that a few times but in the several hundred times I've seen people trip out I've never seen anyone be that delusional. Pretty crazy really and I agree those people should just stay away from drugs because they're only hurting peoples' perceptions of psychedelics.

Anyways, to the original poster...have you decided you aren't interesting in trying them? Just curious...

ArizonaBay

05-06-2006, 04:49 PM

theprosperone

05-06-2006, 05:09 PM

How many people have had what they consider to be negative trips? Did they affect you a long time afterwards?

I haven't myself and I've dosed many times on many things at high doses. I understand this probably isn't the norm, just curious.

I've never been much on McKenna, he has too many theories I just can't take seriously. He has some interesting lectures but I think ideals are best left in the abstract. As far as reading other peoples experiences with drugs, I find it interesting but I rarely find that I apply their same ideas and logic into my experiences. I feel that its such a personal thing that it varies widely from person to person. Its like everyone comparing how they feel when they experience other emotions, there are similarities that bind us all but also differences which make us individuals.

Interesting thing, the person who came up with the double helix formation for DNA has said that it was thought of during an Lsd trip. I believe they said it probably wouldn't have came to them otherwise.

escapeme

05-06-2006, 05:12 PM

My advice from experience- if you have to take that many precautions to do something which is never as good as its made out to be, dont bother. I have had alot of good times on drugs during that phase of my life, but i honestly dont think it was worth the few bad ones. Shit there is no fear like drug fear seriously. You freak on drugs and it haunts you for a long time *shivers*

I fully agree that there is no fear like drug fear. But even though I havent used anything for 8 years now I wouldnt change a thing about that time of my life. I'd take the good with the bad because even the bad opened my eyes to a lot of things in which made me grow to be the person I am today. There is a lot of 'happy' beautiful things in the unconscious mind just waiting to be experienced and learned from but along with that there is the 'dark' side and you have to be ready if that is the path you end up taking. If you ever do get to meet your 'dark' side... its a life changing experience, even more than the good times/side. But if you think about it thats how life is. What changes you the most is pain and troubled times, when the wound is opened and you stand there raw.

theprosperone

05-06-2006, 05:18 PM

Azathoth23

05-06-2006, 06:18 PM

I like Mckenna and Cosmic Trigger was a really good book (by wilson) but I really don't like Leary. I'm more into the mystical side of this stuff and all Leary did was take chemicals and think. He thought the mystic stuff was a bunch of crap and I always got a really bad vib when I read his stuff.

Leary just kind of resonates with me. He turned out to be a little more than what i thought he would be. I to am also into the mystical side of it and he did support the 8 circuits of conciousness map. I havent really read any mckenna but i may have to seeing as though i hear such good things.

M.Luther

05-06-2006, 08:48 PM

I've never been much on McKenna, he has too many theories I just can't take seriously. He has some interesting lectures but I think ideals are best left in the abstract. As far as reading other peoples experiences with drugs, I find it interesting but I rarely find that I apply their same ideas and logic into my experiences. .

I agree some of his theories were out there. But, he was a unique and intelligent person, qualities that are hard to find these days.

Self Medication?

theprosperone

05-06-2006, 08:52 PM

If you haven't heard them already, listen to the talks McKenna gives on ayahuasca. I have a documentary called Shamans of the Amazon. He speaks in this but its mostly about a man and his wife who venture into the rainforest to partake in Ayahuasca ceremonies. Its very interesting, if enough people are interested I can post the torrent and seed it... But yea, he does have some very interesting and intelligent things to say.

GreenSmurf

05-07-2006, 06:21 AM

Who was the team of guys who studies the myth that there were zombies in South America? I remember reading about it and somehow the team later found out it was a powerful hallucinigen or something...

bellamadia

05-07-2006, 07:12 AM

I'd like to add that the mindset that I've developed with the help of psychedelics isn't only present now when I use them. I've integrated those experiences and ideas into my complete conciousness. I can return to similar states without using drugs. Examples would be how I feel towards nature and the earth, how I feel about death and how I feel about my family. I've gotten a better perspective in regards to my relevence to this world we're in. It has really helped me be more accepting with everything in life, the good and the bad.

These are very important experiences/realizations to have. I'm glad that you have drawn these things from your trips.

I do want to say that I believe these things are also possible without the use of drugs, and just as powerfully. Seeing the Northern Lights, camping in the gorgeous wilderness, seeing what seem to be magnificent miracles in nature and life.... they exist without tripping as well. Even concerts, I cannot tell you the euphoria I feel at a concert, it's so beautiful that all these people are here in one place to share the same intense emotions they get from a band. When everyone sings along and shows passion, it gives me chills and has sometimes brought me to tears or induces perma-grin. I get these feelings even in the silliest places because I can step back and see the wonderful blessing we have called life and the beauty of the world around me. The same kind of thing applies to even bad or negative times for me as well. The thing is, you have to learn to STOP, ABSORB, THINK and CONCLUDE in order to get that powerful experience, some people just don't or can't do that... and that's a shame.

On something someone else said on here. I agree with the "no regret" thing, do not EVER regret anything you have done because they are all a part of who you are today. The good, the bad, it all serves a purpose. Again, you can get in touch with your bright and dark sides without the use of drugs if you are reflective enough. Some people are too scared or too complacent to do that, but it is possible. Drugs or not, the important thing is what you do with/about it once you've faced it. You can tap into your unconscious without drugs as well. For me, I do this while doing my artwork. It's amazing what comes out when you completely immerse yourself in something like art.

Please note: I'm not arguing with anyone (lol thanks to prosperone I feel I must say this), I'm just stating that people can have similar outcomes without getting there with drugs.

Azathoth23

05-07-2006, 08:02 AM

These are very important experiences/realizations to have. I'm glad that you have drawn these things from your trips.

I do want to say that I believe these things are also possible without the use of drugs, and just as powerfully. Seeing the Northern Lights, camping in the gorgeous wilderness, seeing what seem to be magnificent miracles in nature and life.... they exist without tripping as well. Even concerts, I cannot tell you the euphoria I feel at a concert, it's so beautiful that all these people are here in one place to share the same intense emotions they get from a band. When everyone sings along and shows passion, it gives me chills and has sometimes brought me to tears or induces perma-grin. I get these feelings even in the silliest places because I can step back and see the wonderful blessing we have called life and the beauty of the world around me. The same kind of thing applies to even bad or negative times for me as well. The thing is, you have to learn to STOP, ABSORB, THINK and CONCLUDE in order to get that powerful experience, some people just don't or can't do that... and that's a shame.

On something someone else said on here. I agree with the "no regret" thing, do not EVER regret anything you have done because they are all a part of who you are today. The good, the bad, it all serves a purpose. Again, you can get in touch with your bright and dark sides without the use of drugs if you are reflective enough. Some people are too scared or too complacent to do that, but it is possible. Drugs or not, the important thing is what you do with/about it once you've faced it. You can tap into your unconscious without drugs as well. For me, I do this while doing my artwork. It's amazing what comes out when you completely immerse yourself in something like art.

Please note: I'm not arguing with anyone (lol thanks to prosperone I feel I must say this), I'm just stating that people can have similar outcomes without getting there with drugs.
I wasnt going to get into your debate . but i do have respect for what you are saying. Yes maybe he should have a dissenting voice on here such as yourself. I have done psychedelics and its one of the most powerful things that i have ever done. For all we know this kid has already made up his mind and is going to do it no matter what we say. I respect that he asked our opinion first. I dontdo drugs any more and now i meditate and occasionally when i get a chance float in a sensory deprivation tank. I agree there is other ways to expand conciusness. BUt like i said its a powerful thing. And when someone who has never done it before starts giving an opinion it isnt going to sit well with people who have. If the kid had said" Im about to have sex would you give me some pointers" would you think that it would be appropriate for a virgin to give him examples?

Matt8

05-07-2006, 08:15 AM

Funny, people would say that mushrooms fuck you up permanently but acid never will....

The real truth is that if your mind can't handle the drugs, it doesn't matter if its shrooms or acid....the truths inside yourself that you aren't ready to face up to are what ends up biting your ass in the end. If you don't think mushrooms are as powerful as acid, eat a quarter ounce of some good shrooms and then let me know.
mushrooms can be like acid but you need a lot. when comparing cost to fucked-up-ness acid is like 5$ a hit and like 2 or 3 hits gives you a good trip when with mushrooms its like between 5-10$ a gram and you need like much more to get the same effect. i personally prefer acid. its just a feeling i enjoy much more. at the austrailian pink floyd show that came here i was on 4 grams of shrooms and it was the most fucked off shrooms i had ever been. i dunno what it was but they were awesome.

bellamadia

05-07-2006, 08:16 AM

I wasnt going to get into your debate . but i do have respect for what you are saying. Yes maybe he should have a dissenting voice on here such as yourself. I have done psychedelics and its one of the most powerful things that i have ever done. For all we know this kid has already made up his mind and is going to do it no matter what we say. I respect that he asked our opinion first. I dontdo drugs any more and now i meditate and occasionally when i get a chance float in a sensory deprivation tank. I agree there is other ways to expand conciusness. BUt like i said its a powerful thing. And when someone who has never done it before starts giving an opinion it isnt going to sit well with people who have. If the kid had said" Im about to have sex would you give me some pointers" would you think that it would be appropriate for a virgin to give him examples?

It's cool. You probably missed it since there are a lot of posts here but I told him in a previous post that I think he is very smart and responsible for asking/thinking before jumping in. :) I totally respect him for that. And I respect everyone else for giving their advice, no matter what it is. I understand that I may not seem "credible" because I have not done psychedelics, however, the point of view that I am trying to get across is the point of view of someone who has never done them and WILL never do them. I think I am very credible speaking as THAT person. So yes, a virgin would have every right to come on here and say why he/she believes it is best to stay a virgin.

I will quote someone's private message to me without naming any names..... I think he/she hit the nail on the head with what I am trying to do here.

"Without your posts on the "drug Advice" topic it'd be a very one-sided thread. Someone suggested that the words "think for yourself, question authority" were "lost on you". However I think that you are one of the few Tool fans who truely does that. Everyone on this forum seems to think what they think Tool want them to think, and question what Tool want them to question."

Azathoth23

05-07-2006, 08:26 AM

It's cool. You probably missed it since there are a lot of posts here but I told him in a previous post that I think he is very smart and responsible for asking/thinking before jumping in. :) I totally respect him for that. And I respect everyone else for giving their advice, no matter what it is. I understand that I may not seem "credible" because I have not done psychedelics, however, the point of view that I am trying to get across is the point of view of someone who has never done them and WILL never do them. I think I am very credible speaking as THAT person. So yes, a virgin would have every right to come on here and say why he/she believes it is best to stay a virgin.

I will quote someone's private message to me without naming any names..... I think he/she hit the nail on the head with what I am trying to do here.

"Without your posts on the "drug Advice" topic it'd be a very one-sided thread. Someone suggested that the words "think for yourself, question authority" were "lost on you". However I think that you are one of the few Tool fans who truely does that. Everyone on this forum seems to think what they think Tool want them to think, and question what Tool want them to question."

I agree with what your saying. I dont know if i agree with the tool thing but you have a point. But im sure everyone who has ever done or been around drugs has a horror story. I have horror stories. And quite frankly not one of us on here can guarantee that the kid is going to have a good trip. Believe me when i say that if i told the kid some of the things i have seen he would probabaly swear off any kind of drug caffiene included. I would still never tell someone not to do it. But on the other hand i wouldnt tell him that he should either. He asked for advice, were giving it to him.

theprosperone

05-07-2006, 08:30 AM

"Without your posts on the "drug Advice" topic it'd be a very one-sided thread. Someone suggested that the words "think for yourself, question authority" were "lost on you". However I think that you are one of the few Tool fans who truely does that. Everyone on this forum seems to think what they think Tool want them to think, and question what Tool want them to question."

The only reason that I've been so harsh on your opinion is because I question how you came to develop that opinion. I feel like your opinion was mostly formed through the opinions of others and not at all on your own personal experiences. I feel like thats the best way to get the wrong perception about things. Thats why I made the comment about thinking for yourself. You can't ever have a truly informed opinion when you're only basing it on the opinions of others, and mostly people you don't know.

Regardless, its cool. I respect you not wanting to take drugs....but if you're interested in knowing more about them there is a lot more information out there that it seems you haven't been exposed to.

Happy trippin' to those who do. :D

Nate-Dogg85

05-07-2006, 08:34 AM

Wow, i love how this person asks for drug advice and ppl start arguing their point of view of drugs and psychadellics (and yes, they are the same, but different at the same time)

Anyways, my advice for a first time shroom user...

1) Maybe do some meditation to warm yourself up... Ive had similar experiences during meditation as i have on shrooms, and meditation is completely controlled so you can always back out if you start to get scared or something, and then eventually you can work on conqueering that fear....

2) Take a small dose, you wont be that completely annihilated and seperated from this reality all of us are living in. It will be easier to think and tell yourself everything is ok, if things start to go poorly.

3) Get your ass outdoors amongst nature. Ive had numerous times when ive freaked out inside, gotten outside and been completely fine. Preferably in a place where you wont be running into random people...

4) Keep a good mindset before tripping. If you are reluctant at all, it could potentially ruin your trip. If you are excited in anticipation and you're ready to trip, you will be fine... Although you cant control exactly what happens during your trip, you CAN control how well the trip goes.

5) A lot of people like to eat their shrooms, then smoke a bowl... (to pass the time, and get their mindset right). This all depends how you are with pot. If you love pot, and it calms you down and mellows you out, i say go for it. If you get paranoid at all or anything like that, stay away from it. This will warm you up nicely, and if pot is good for you, your trip will be amazing...

6) like a lot of people said, educate yourself (www.erowid.org) read some other peoples stories and know whats coming.

7) I reccomend a baby sitter to watch you during your trip. Make sure they know not to speak and theyre there to watch and tell you "everything is ok" if things start to go not so well. If they speak you will kind of look at them as ignorant fools and you will just say "you are sober, you dont know anything"

8) As for consumption.... Mushrooms taste like shit and i get sick when i taste them anymore, so take a bite and if its disgusting, put them in a blender with some orange juice and just slam that.

I cant really think of anything else to reccomend... Turn your cell phone off? The last thing you want is to be on the phone with your parents or something while you're tripping, that happened to me one time and it was NOT cool.... Other than that just have a good time and enjoy the spiritual enlightenment.

Matt8

05-07-2006, 08:39 AM

Matt8

05-07-2006, 08:41 AM

I cant really think of anything else to reccomend... Turn your cell phone off? The last thing you want is to be on the phone with your parents or something while you're tripping, that happened to me one time and it was NOT cool.... Other than that just have a good time and enjoy the spiritual enlightenment.
yea first time i did acid my mom called. somehow i managed to keep it cool but i was trying to keep a regular conversation while watching the flowers on the wallpaper bloom over and over and the spirals in the ceiling.

bellamadia

05-07-2006, 08:44 AM

I agree with what your saying. I dont know if i agree with the tool thing but you have a point. But im sure everyone who has ever done or been around drugs has a horror story. I have horror stories. And quite frankly not one of us on here can guarantee that the kid is going to have a good trip. Believe me when i say that if i told the kid some of the things i have seen he would probabaly swear off any kind of drug caffiene included. I would still never tell someone not to do it. But on the other hand i wouldnt tell him that he should either. He asked for advice, were giving it to him.

I hear ya! thanks!

bellamadia

05-07-2006, 08:45 AM

The only reason that I've been so harsh on your opinion is because I question how you came to develop that opinion. I feel like your opinion was mostly formed through the opinions of others and not at all on your own personal experiences. I feel like thats the best way to get the wrong perception about things. Thats why I made the comment about thinking for yourself. You can't ever have a truly informed opinion when you're only basing it on the opinions of others, and mostly people you don't know.

Regardless, its cool. I respect you not wanting to take drugs....but if you're interested in knowing more about them there is a lot more information out there that it seems you haven't been exposed to.

Happy trippin' to those who do. :D

It's cool. I respect yours as well.

Nate-Dogg85

05-07-2006, 09:30 AM

maybe its different for me because i did acid before mushrooms. its weird how everyone thinks shrooms are extreme. i always thought acid was much more extreme. acid is a very spiritual kind of quazi-religious thing. shrooms are for when im chillin with friends and want to have some good jokes or we're just feeling them as our drug choice. i mean ive done like shrooms at school and handled myself and i wouldnt even attempt that on acid. then again i guess its how much you take.

Scientifically... Psilosybin < Mescaline < LSD < DMT < Ibogaine

Thats my opinion on intensities of the psychadellics...

Thats just becuase 1 gram of LSD will fuck up sooooo many people, where as 1 gram of mushrooms will only fuck up one person. If you take an equal amount of the chemicals.... Like, an extremely small amount of LSD, and an extremely large amount of Shrooms, they will be very very similar... I cant remember where i read it, but they both effect the same area of the brain, and they both fuck with serotonin receptors that guide or senses.

I have had insanely crazy mushrooms trips where i have died, out of body experiences, the world began to melt away similar to acid trips, i believed god had come to me... various things that are extremely common of an acid trip. I havent ever experienced them quite as vividly as you do on acid though. Acid is just so intense it doesnt allow you to even stay in your head at all, you cant prevent anything from melting away at all.

Alcawhorlick

05-08-2006, 03:20 PM

Man, I wish I had the last 15 minutes of my day back.
That bella chick annoys me even more than I thought.
The people that suggested that he visit erowid, etc were doing exactly what she claimed that no one was doing; informing him of the possible negative effects, etc.
That site, along with countless others will tell you everything you need to know.

That's the best and only advice anyone should give anyone when it comes to this subject.
We have the internet, use it.

BlkGenIV

05-08-2006, 03:23 PM

my advice is to not listen to a damn thing you hear, as you are very succeptable to suggestion in this state. all i can tell you is, nothing you read or hear will ever be able to fully describe what happens. you will never be the same, but not in some weird tripped out way. you will be one of us :)

but yeah, they describe the trails and the jaw ache etc, but nothing can describe what you will go through, and no one will ever understand unless theyve been through it also.

I agree, you can not describe the experince you get from any drug by reading it. Plus everyone has different body chemistry, and drugs effect everyone different.

GreenSmurf

05-08-2006, 04:35 PM

"See I think drugs have done some good things for us. If you don't think drugs have done good things for us then do me a favor. Go home tonight and take all of your records,tapes and all your CD's and burn them. Because, you know all those musicians who made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years? Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreal fucking high on drugs, man. If you don't think drugs have done good things for us then take all of your records,tapes and CD's and burn them.

My final point about alchohol, about drugs, about Pornography...What business is it of your's what I do, read, buy, see or take into my body as long as I don't harm another human being whilst on this planet? And for those of you having a little moral dilemna on how to answer this, I'll answer for you. NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS Take that to the bank, cash it and take it on a vacation outta my fucking life. And stop bringing shotguns to UFO sightings, they might be here to pick me up and take me with 'em."

-Bill Hicks

Well, I think that says enough as it is. If you want advice. I'd say go chil with people while they do the drugs and see if it is something that interests you.

JOK3R

05-09-2006, 02:08 AM

go to www.erowid.com

thanks for the link

bellamadia

05-09-2006, 06:27 AM

Loveboat Captain

05-09-2006, 08:57 AM

Can we calm this thread down? Everyones been very helpful, thank you very much for your input.

Nate-Dogg85

05-09-2006, 09:48 AM

I agree, you can not describe the experince you get from any drug by reading it. Plus everyone has different body chemistry, and drugs effect everyone different.

BUT.... its good to know what your getting yourself into... The first time i smoked weed i knew nothing, had a great time... The first time i tripped on mushrooms, it was too much for me and i freaked out and lost it (wrong setting, around too many people)

A big problem with drugs in this world is people not knowing what theyre getting themselves into, and how to deal with situations theyre getting into... Yeah, itll influence your trip knowing whats happened to other people, but even with everything ive read about other peoples trips, ive still had new and origional things that no else has ever said anything about happen to me.

Education will lead to safety, which is very important with some drugs.

bellamadia

05-09-2006, 11:25 AM

Can we calm this thread down? Everyones been very helpful, thank you very much for your input.

Sorry for the arguing that has come about LoveBoat. It's not because you posted your question. You totally did the right thing. It's because the people that are answering you have different opinions on drugs. I've been thinking about this a lot and I actually feel pretty good about where I've netted out so I'd be ok with staying out of this thread. I tried to before, but then someone went and said something about me again in a derogatory manner so I felt compelled to respond. Maybe I should just stop looking on here LOL. I just want people to understand what I am saying and not twist my words into what they think I am saying or what they have heard before. As I told you, I think you will be fine without all of our input. Good luck. :)

theprosperone

05-09-2006, 03:39 PM

Can we calm this thread down? Everyones been very helpful, thank you very much for your input.

Hey, if you really want to try mushrooms and be safe and informed about them go to forums.mycotopia.net which is part of www.mycotopia.net and spend a lot of time reading. You can provide means to trip yourself without ever having to be involved in shady drug dealings and they'll answer all the questions and concerns you might have about shrooms. Also you might just find growing edible mushrooms to be really damn fun and interesting.

theprosperone

05-09-2006, 05:58 PM

Man I tried this so many times for psilo mushies. I gave up a year ago. I just couldn't get a my mycelia growths to stay uncontaninated. I tried so many things and build all sorts of contraptions like clean boxes. I guess I'm just not much of blue thumb. But I'll try again eventually. Maybe I should just try shiitake or something else that's non-psilo first. I love me some shiitake, mmmmm.

If you would like, I could help you possibly. Also the fine folks at mycotopia have a messageboard where they will help anyone with any problems. Its very easy to do, you don't even need a clean box or a pressure cooker... ;) Shiitake are a little more difficult than cubensis, as are most edibles strangely enough.

Pm me if you wanna chat about getting started on your way to success.. :)

paluka

05-17-2006, 02:15 AM

The only difference with religions, etc. is that believing in them is not potentially harmful to this precious life and body we were given. For all any of us KNOW, this is all we get. We should treat it kindly, with respect, and embrace it with a clear mind and heart.

Thats a load of bullshit. Religions do not create harmful situations? Religion itself transforms people into different beings. The intention of your arguments creates the assumption you wish to shun psychedelic drugs (which have been used for beneficial purposes). Yet it has been religion itself that has kept people blind, mediocre, and stupid (and completely ignorant of its own contradicting core values).

Do me a favor and read High Priest by Timothy Leary. Skip over to the Concord Prison Rehab Project. Psilocybin mushrooms (under the planning of those great doctors) created lower recidivism rates and till this day is the best method of lowering those rates.

I can give you more examples of psychedelics used for the bettering of mankind. If you'd like I'd be happy to post more.

happydipshit

05-17-2006, 04:34 AM

yep yep gimme more!!

Inner_Eulogy

05-18-2006, 07:53 PM

This is why you shouldn't do psychedelics with clueless people and clueless people shouldn't do psychedelics. Also acid seems to be much more damaging than shrooms for first time users and abusers. However, it is the person and only the person alone that can make themselves go insane through lack of discipline and playing with fire. I've never heard of #6 from shrooms. But acid induced my uncle's predisposed schizophrenia. I however, have done just about everything under pharmacopeia.

Make sure you know what you are getting and know who you are getting it from. I don't take chances with my head, its too precious. Personally I have chemist friends so I know what I'm getting down to the synthesis process. However, psilocybin has the perfect sythesis process because it was made by an organism that has been doing it for thousand/millions of years. I also don't buy street drugs or drugs at raves or parties from stangers.

Don't take drugs recreationally. It's fucking stupid. First of all, think why do you even want to take them? If it is to have fun and party then don't do it. Also, we are taking about psychedelics not candy drugs like heroine and coke. These things are nothing like psychedelics and much more prone to abuse by the undisciplined mind.

Now that you had shit scared the shit out you. If you take a psychedelic and know it is good don't be afraid. I repeat, don't be afraid. Loose all fear and doubt. But remember the choice is always yours. Take the red pill or blue pill.

I completely agree with the above. I haven't done either in many years but have just placed an order for some decent salvia last night and have never tried it before. I did much research beforehand though and people have said to me though I cannot compare it at all with a shroom or acid trip but that's the only thing I can compare other than maybe Ketamine, although all that did do me was make me feel like a puppet and outside my body.

Inner_Eulogy

05-18-2006, 08:08 PM

Am I the only one that finds it kind of sad and slightly disturbing that everyone is telling this person how to "learn about drugs and take them safely?" I don't agree with this. Not everyone can handle drugs, no matter how much they research them, no matter how many times they evaluate why they are doing them. Also, it is INCREDIBLY hard to know EXACTLY what is in the drug you are taking. If you get a bad "batch" of anything, it can have serious and permanant effects. Then theres the whole part about addiction, and how it can sometimes take over otherwise good people. Then the issue of responsibility. The things you shouldn't do while you are on drugs, like driving, being around your children, etc. You may think this is common sense, but there are people out there, many people, that do things like this. I just think the negatives outweigh the positive.

Also, I know I will get flamed for this, but why are people trying so hard to find a different "realm," a higher, better feeling, an escape, with the assistance of drugs? Is like really that awful? And if it is, are you not strong enough to find a way to "escape" from it naturally with meditation, yoga, jogging, drawing, listening to music, whatever? I just think resorting to drugs is a weak way "out."

I'd just like to add, I've known of NO psychadelics that were "addictive" and any person WITHOUT a stable mind to begin with SHOULD NOT PARTICIPATE IN THEM. And that any person that seemed to be "addictive" to them is a hopless cause to begin with. I've dabbled in many things in my life when was younger, LSD, Crystal, Coke, Shrooms, Special K, DXM as mentioned before...although I never have and never will do herion or crack. Coke although,is quite addictive I might add. I haven't done any of these things in many years and as long as you're not doing them nonstop, you'll be completely fine. It's always the people that have never even TRIED the experience that are downing it. As my last post stated, I haven't done anything in many years but longed for a one more chance to experience a "mind altering substance" per sey and I just placed an order for Salvia. I first heard about it's connection with the song Rosetta Stoned and had never heard of it before but I did much research before I even contemplated it. I plan on turning off lights, lighting candles and incense and playing something nice and tranquil for my first experience with it...although the thought has crossed my mind to play Vigenti Tres as interesting as it sounds, I can imagine how bad of an idea that would be. Anyways......

Inner_Eulogy

05-18-2006, 08:15 PM

my advice would be...don't take drugs

Agreed, a person with a mind as closed and pessimistic as hers should NOT do drugs. She would scare herself half to death dealing wih her insecurities and demons....I don't know about you people but I can see right through it....she's scared of having to deal with her inner self, veru insecure she seems....no offense homegirl, just laying it out as I see it

Inner_Eulogy

05-18-2006, 08:20 PM

I agree to a certain extent, but you ultimately cannot control to what degree someone will behave responsibly - only provide the information available. It's the same way with legal things like alcohol. I don't know if this is the best analogy, but millions of people do not drink "responsibly". All the DUIs, physical/sexual assaults, etc that come as a result of weak persons or stupid people (let's call them retards) drinking to excess. Most people would argue there's nothing wrong with drinking, getting wasted, whatever. But when retards start doing stupid shit while drunk, while on ANYTHING, then the substance gets blamed as the problem and not the person themselves/their characteristics

I ABSOLUTELY agree with this. That is so right, it's not the drug, it's the person and their personality. If you're fucked up in the head, DON'T take psychadelics. If you're not responsible to being with and how you approach it..DON'T take them. Just like the saying goes "Guns don't kill people, STUPID FUCKING MORONS with guns kill people"

Inner_Eulogy

05-19-2006, 06:57 AM

Yea, I agree I unwittingly did this some years ago when I was at work and sick. I was nursing a cold on a empty stomach, big fucking mistake. aside from the disassociative effects there was also a nasty come down of depression, confusion and dry heaving. DXM is more of a drug to do, when nothing else is available.

Then you're an idiot for doing that while AT work for one, secondly..being sick doesn't help either. You give them a bad name.

Cemetery Shindig

05-19-2006, 08:29 AM

First, thank you for calling some of my friends losers, that's nice of you. You DO NOT know me, and you DO NOT know my friends, so please, do not be a jerk. I am not attacking you, yet somehow you are taking this so personally. Why are you so defensive? I was merely doing two things, one, informing this kid of the negatives I have seen as a result of drugs and two, sharing my view on what drugs mean to me. You don't have to agree with me, I'm ok with that. But please do not insult me, or my intelligence. I am not going to sit here and try to prove myself to you by telling you my degree, my gpa, my career, my age, my social status or any of the other things to defend what your post was implying about me. What I am going to do for you, and everyone else that may be reading my posts, is try to explain myself differently so that I feel I am being accurately portrayed...

FIRST, I am not saying that psychedelic drugs are BAD nor GOOD. I DO think psychedelics have negative side effects for MANY people in this world, because MANY people cannot handle them. I do not see how anyone can deny this. If you do not want to hear it from me, Maynard has said it and so have Alex Grey and several others whose words may hold some more value than some girl on the tool site.

I also understand that there are many artists that I admire throughout history and MOST of these artists did psychedelic drugs that inspired the work that I love so much. MOST of the music I love is done by artists that have been inspired by psychedelics. I also know that there are normal people with careers and families that do psychedelics. I am NOT calling any of these people losers, irresponsible or unintelligent.

What I am saying is all of us are HUMAN, no matter how talented, how many kids you have, what your job is.... We are all people that live life and sometimes life is hard, sometimes shit happens to us, sometimes we get depressed, sometimes we get angry, sometimes we get lost and cant find our way, etc. As a result of these things, we look for a crutch, something to get us through... and drugs are one of these things. Again, I don't think you can deny that.

What is sad to me is that people feel they even NEED to have a crutch in the first place. It makes me sad that people cannot look within themselves for the guidance and answers they need, naturally, without the assistance of drugs or anything else. It makes me sad that I question if all the art and music I love would not have been made without drugs. It makes me sad think that THIS reality is so uninspiring to some people that they feel they have to use psychedelics for answers and inspiration. I could go on in this manner about many things, but I think I've made my point.

I know that this all doesn't matter. If the end result is something positive, like an amazing piece of art or a great song... why should I care how they got there? In many ways I don't, otherwise I wouldn't love the artists and musicians that I love like The Beatles, Doors, Pink Floyd, NIN, Tool, Salvador Dali, Most artists in the Dada movement, Alex Grey, Walt fuckin Disney... and on. Do I think these people are amazing? YES. Does the fact that they did psychedelics to create their work make them any less talented? NO. BUT as I mention above, it makes me sad to think that this is the way the world is. Maybe it doesn't make any sense... but it's how I feel. I choose to try to deal with life naturally. Does that make me any better than anyone else? NO. But I have a right to share my opinion with others and perhaps make them see a different side when they ask about using drugs.

I don't think that is offensive or wrong.

Just to clear a few things up...
Mushrooms and LSD are both physically and mentally harmless assuming the user is not a complete moron. There is no concern for purity as far as LSD and mushrooms are concerned. LSD most often comes in blotter form. A profound acid trip would require no more than 400 MICROGRAMS of the substance, which could easily be soaked into two or three blotter tabs, which are .25 inches x .25 inches. There is simply not enough space on a few blotter tabs for any other chemical known to man to effect you. Not rat poison, not drain cleaner, not anything. Anything you've ever heard about people selling other chemicals as acid, in terms of blotter, is a complete fabrication, and if they WERE doing it, there would be no point to it whatsoever. It'd be a waste of perfectly good poisonous chemicals. If you're getting blotter, it's either LSD or blank paper. Getting ripped off is the only concern.

incircles

05-19-2006, 03:14 PM

I think people who appreciate psychedelics are sensitive about being considered "druggies." I know I am. I don't drink or smoke -- when I want to get high, I go for a run -- but I look at psychedelic experiences as challenging and rewarding things. Because of that, a lot of people would probably think of me as a "druggie" and mentally demote me to second-class citizen.

So, it's hard for me to take criticism of psychedelics as level-headedly as I should, because I take it personally...

blackandwhite

05-19-2006, 04:05 PM

I know what you mean. Even other people who may smoke weed would call you a druggie, because for some reason they might be ashamed of doing it themselves.

Garguantua

05-19-2006, 04:30 PM

I'm trying to remember the first time I did mushrooms. Can't really. I remember the first time I did LSD, but that's a little more intense. Just like any other drug, you'll find out for yourself. I guess you will see what you shall see. Don't worry. You won't go crazy or OD or anything silly. It's really quite harmless in a relaxed setting. (your living room with a few friends and a few beers, and a good collection of music is a good place to start.)

Its a relatively harmless drug, and as long as you don't ingest too much, you'll have a lot of fun. Music sounds really good on mushrooms. Just like alcohol and weed. A bit better, IMHO, but that's just me. You might experience some sensory ....deviation. But nothing a sane, well adjusted teenager can't handle. Have fun.

Inner_Eulogy

05-23-2006, 02:07 PM

Well, I tried Salvia (1gram of enhanced leaves) today. I was kind of disappointed. I started by taking one large hit and it hit me good for about 2-4minutes and so I took another large hit and felt again like I was "kinda" trippin. I ended up taking like 2 more hits within 15min thinking ok maybe I'm supposed to smoke more of this to "really" feel it and it was just so so. I guess I'm what they call a salvia hardhead maybe. But for 1gram for $70 it just ain't worth it. It was cool for like what seemed 5min and then it just felt like I was coming down from a shroom trip. I had zero visuals unless I closed my eyes and even then they weren't very vivid. I definatelty didn't have any spiritual experience nor was there any imaginary companion. For the most part even throughout the peak I was completely aware of reality which according to all the stories, you completely lose sense of this world and open your eyes in a new one. Oh well, that's my story.

Parallel

05-25-2006, 09:05 PM

THEPROSPERONE:

I just wanted to say that I agree with you a hundred percent here. I've never taken any hallucinogens. The only thing that I've taken has been MDMA, which has allowed me to develop in many ways and help me to come to terms with particular things. I see the amazing potential that psychoactives would have on a human (friends have taken it and shared experiences) and admire that you are promoting truth behind it (among with others on the board.) There isn't much you can do for those who continually turn a blind eye to truth and an opened ear to DARE, unfortunately.

swampyfool

05-27-2006, 05:53 PM

Oh Captain, My Captain:
Please do tell us if you do take the plunge and what your impressions were . . .
My only advice is that you need to remember the following:
1. Relax and be confident. Whatever happens- however bad it may seem- things are going to be OK. The majority of freakouts are self-induced by people who lose sight of the fact that it will all be O.K.
2. Nobody knows you're tripping unless you tell them. This works both ways: If you need help, then you need to tell somebody that you are tripping or else they won't know how to begin. If you start thinking paranoid thoughts because it has occurred to you that "everybody knows your tripping"; relax and be confident, they don't, and you are fine.
3. If you start to feel fear, that's fine- that's even good. Psychedlia is about exploration and epiphany, and sometimes these things require a little adversity. Whatever you do, don't surrender to fear; just remember to relax and be confident. Surrendering to fear, or even contemplating its validity, will only result in wasted time and energy until you finally talk yourself down.
4. Before ingesting psilocybin avoid dairy products and allow some time to pass between eating your last meal and eating your mushrooms. Lactose acts to counteract psilocybin, so if your last meal was a double-cheese pizza followed by an ice cream sundae, your trip will not achieve its full, potential intensity. Many mushroom purists advocate fasting for a day prior to tripping. This lowers your body's defenses as intensifies the results. I wouldn't reccomend this for a first trip.
5. This works both ways. If your confidence fails and you cannot relax, drink a couple of tall glasses of milk and munch on a rare roast beef sandwich on heavy bread with all the veggies you like (if you are a vegetarian, substitute tofu or seitan for the meat- protein is important to this process). This will not result in instant sobriety, but it will greatly increase your body's ability to fight the effects. You wll not shed all aspects of your altered state until all of the toxin has left your system; so you will probably see trails and their might be a flanger pedal on the conversations you hear, but your mental state will return to normal.
6. Psychedelic drugs deplete your body of vitamins, so make sure you are ready to replenish your body's supply for the day after. Many people I know take vitamins directly before and after they trip so as to aid their transition into normalcy and avoid the typical burnout period that follows a trip.

Happy travels!

barometric_tool

05-27-2006, 07:40 PM

Why is this here when it has nothing to do with the song? Shouldn't it be in the medicated thread.

While we're on the subject, anyone that live in the Metro Detroit area go to DEMF? It was garbage.

Loveboat Captain

05-28-2006, 06:17 AM

Why are you so hung up on where a thread is?

formerlycontent

05-29-2006, 04:08 AM

wicked, a discussion on shrooms hehehe. well in my experience, ive taken shrooms 4 times, the first 3 were awesome, just laughed & had fun, but the final time i totally tripped for 3 days & couldnt get enough action in my brain no matter what i was doing, totally intense, felt like my brain was rapidly frying itself. the dose was excessive however. 90-100 blue meanies, not your regular gold tops. all brewed into 3 cups of tea, & i downed all 3. not an experience i wish to repeat, took 6 months to feel like i was sane again. However, in small doses, sure good times. Just don't get greedy or give into peer pressure k.

EternalSiGN

05-29-2006, 05:51 PM

ok i saw in a movie.. idk if this is true but a guy lite what looked like an insent and got a simalar effect as a shroom or acid.. what is it.. where can u get them, and how safe are they...

barometric_tool

05-29-2006, 07:03 PM

Opium. Riding the dragon. Getting wet.....no wait, that's PCP.

But yeah...You were probably watching From Hell or something. You get it from drug dealers. Just don't just the big H!

EternalSiGN

05-30-2006, 10:09 AM

can u get it in an insent?

Inner_Eulogy

05-31-2006, 09:25 AM

2. Nobody knows you're tripping unless you tell them. This works both ways: If you need help, then you need to tell somebody that you are tripping or else they won't know how to begin. If you start thinking paranoid thoughts because it has occurred to you that "everybody knows your tripping"; relax and be confident, they don't, and you are fine.

I would disagree with this statement. If you're tripping balls and staring at a fuckin puddle going WHOA, FUCKING AWESOME DUDE, IT RIPPLES, I'M IN THE VOID or some crazy shit, I'm sure somebody's gonna catch on. When you're peaking, it's not easy to concentrate on "acting normal" while around others whom you do NOT want to know that you are tripping.

The_Flood

05-31-2006, 12:39 PM

sounds like an ABC afterschool special...drugs r bad mmmkayyy...

I was thinking the same exact thing...

Quoting the band No Cash

"Smoke crack and burn churches."

PriceisRight

05-31-2006, 12:49 PM

Also, I know I will get flamed for this, but why are people trying so hard to find a different "realm," a higher, better feeling, an escape, with the assistance of drugs? Is like really that awful? And if it is, are you not strong enough to find a way to "escape" from it naturally with meditation, yoga, jogging, drawing, listening to music, whatever? I just think resorting to drugs is a weak way "out."

I fully agree!

Drugs are stimulating mental chemicals which cause an illusion. A "false" state of enlightenment.

You should try to reach enlightenment without them instead of just tripping.

EternalSiGN

06-02-2006, 08:16 AM

i guess there is no such thing as i am talking about

swampyfool

06-03-2006, 05:19 AM

I would disagree with this statement. If you're tripping balls and staring at a fuckin puddle going WHOA, FUCKING AWESOME DUDE, IT RIPPLES, I'M IN THE VOID or some crazy shit, I'm sure somebody's gonna catch on. When you're peaking, it's not easy to concentrate on "acting normal" while around others whom you do NOT want to know that you are tripping.
I don't know, in my tripping experience (Dead lots, Phish lots, schools, hospitals, airplanes, busses, parks, urban centers, police stations, "Say No To Drugs" rallies . . .) people might think that you are acting strange, but they don't make the leap without some nudging. I guess if you walk up to a crowd of people and start saying such things as you suggest earlier, somebody would connect the dots. However, in my opinion, if you lack the common sense to keep your mouth shut in situations like that, maybe you lack the constitution for psychedelic drugs (no offense intended- they aren't for everybody).

Nate-Dogg85

06-04-2006, 01:54 PM

i guess there is no such thing as i am talking about

The only thing that i know like that is hash. But hash wouldnt put you anywhere near an LSD trip.

swampyfool

06-04-2006, 02:17 PM

ok i saw in a movie.. idk if this is true but a guy lite what looked like an insent and got a simalar effect as a shroom or acid.. what is it.. where can u get them, and how safe are they...

The only thing that i know like that is hash. But hash wouldnt put you anywhere near an LSD trip.

Maybe Thai-stick (you know, that sheet that's tied to a steeck)? But that shit has formaldehyde in it, so it's not safe. If it was hash, then the movie definitely overdid their presentation of the effects. Either way, don't let movies motivate you towards (or away from) certain choices in drug use- they lie, and you're better than that.

EternalSiGN

06-05-2006, 09:36 AM

no.. i was thinking it would just b easier 2 just sit there and inhile it... hey that stuff wouldn't make me physicly do anything crazy would it

swampyfool

06-05-2006, 09:58 AM

no.. i was thinking it would just b easier 2 just sit there and inhile it... hey that stuff wouldn't make me physicly do anything crazy would it
Hash, no. Thai-Stick, debatable.

EternalSiGN

06-05-2006, 10:43 AM

what about shrooms... see im in a wheelchair.. it would b better if i didn't try something that would make me u know think i can walk and stuff... lol

swampyfool

06-05-2006, 10:57 AM

what about shrooms... see im in a wheelchair.. it would b better if i didn't try something that would make me u know think i can walk and stuff... lol
Well, shrooms and the like can cause all kinds of thoughts, and they can be hard to predict. However, the old, "think you can fly" has never happened to me or anybody that I've known. Make an effort to keep your natural limitations in mind (not just you, but everybody), and you should be fine. It's always a good idea to enjoy such experiences with friends that you LOVE AND TRUST, because their presence can serve as a grounding influence on thoughts that extend beyond your realm of probability (possiblity). Ideally, you should talk to your doctor about how such hallucinagens might interact with your specific condition- but obviously our society is far from ideal- and it is often hard to find a doctor that you can trust with such a query (or who will know how to answer, for that matter). Barring that, I would do some research, which may also prove to be a little difficult, given the lack of clincal trials on the subject. Either way you choose, remember to be confident and relax; enjoy.

EternalSiGN

06-05-2006, 03:15 PM

thats cool.. thats what i figured.. i mean i drink and smoke a little weed so i think i will b ok... i just wanna see what my mind can come up with with that little bit of push

Nate-Dogg85

06-06-2006, 06:39 AM

I would assume shrooms would be good for someone in a wheelchair... From my experience with mushrooms, i usually sit under the sky and stare for a few hours, so that would work well for you. However, it is called a 'trip', and while on a trip sometimes you like to journey.... I dont think that would make you think you can walk, but ya never know. I can remember one time i was at a volleyball game while i was coming down from a trip, and i was sitting there thinking i could yell louder than any of the other fans screaming, but i didnt. I was sitting there thinking that if i were to stand up and yell, then the entire sports center would explode, but i didnt yell at all, i just sat there paranoid everyone knew i was tripping still.

swampyfool

06-06-2006, 06:42 AM

i just sat there paranoid everyone knew i was tripping still.
They didn't ;)

eslupminoyler

06-06-2006, 08:51 AM

They didn't ;)

If you are going to take shrooms, acid, salvia, or even marijuana in high doses, make sure your pray for safe passage. You can confront some potent demons, and you will need protection on the way.
I took shrooms once at a very confused, and insecure time in my life. It was a bad experience, and I believe it hurt me mentally. My memory hasn't been as great since before the experience.
I doubt that shrooms have a negative effect on memory, it is just that my willingness to confront the trip and the alternate dimension I was in had an negative effect on my brain.

Salvia is still legal in 47 states. I recommend that, because there is less stigma attached to a legal substance. Many people become Borderline (a disorder, somewhere between imagination and psychosis) if their thoughts are not contolled. Prayer and protection are without a doubt related to this type of surrounding control. In the end it is your mind, not surroundings which are controlled. DOn't let the drug control you, control your mind, by understanding the experience as an observer. What is happening to you is not reality, but what you learn can help you understand the universal laws wrapped in a veil of darkness. It is hard for CHristians to trip, because of the devil. I'd say there is a devil, but CHristians automatically take ever malevolence or detriment during the trip as a tool of satan. Maybe they are right though.
In any case, pray prior and subsequent to the experience.

Nate-Dogg85

06-06-2006, 04:29 PM

hmmm, i know they didnt know i was tripping, but sometimes you cant help thinking that.....

As for the guy before me, 'you can encounter demons', you said something like that. I really think your personal expectations take you where you go with the drug. Yeah, theres things that cant be expected, of course, but if you have a positive attitude going into a trip, chances are you're going encounter angels instead of demons. So many people are afraid of 'the drug' when i really feel it should be themselves they should be afraid of...

Another thing you said, saying to do salvia, something like that. I didnt really read what you said, but im going to comment. I dont know if you said this, but i think this is what you were talking about... Build up to things. Get a strong base with the weaker/lighter substances before going full throttle. Find out what you can handle, and how much you can handle before going nuts.

Then another thing just popped into my head, you said something like "i took these at an insecure point of time in my life" Fuck that, no offense, seriously... You mustve been thinking "my life sux right now" right before you started tripping, which isnt the way you think before you go into a trip. You gotta be like, im ready to learn a lesson, and then embrace. I took mushrooms on two occassions at shitty points of my life. I was failing out of school, i had just gotten arrested, been in a car accident and owed a lot of money, and a number of other things dealing with deceased friends and a tragic love life. The first trip i had during this rocky time in my life, sucked. I freaked out and ended up running away. The second trip, i had a much different idea before going into my trip, and ended up having the most enlightening experience ever. I died, for any of you who have died on mushrooms you know what im talking about. After my death it was as if god had come to me and given me the answers to fixing my life. Everything made perfect sense and afterwards i managed to remember this experience and it carries over into my 'real' , if you will, life and i am still acting accordingly to what i promised myself that day.

Fuck drugs, drugs are bad, psychadellics are amazing. Eh, can be, if used properly.

stevejols

06-07-2006, 11:06 AM

Fuck DXM. Don't even waste your time, or your health on that shit.

Shrooms are no big deal as long as you are surrounded by comfortable things and people. I mean things that you know are safe and fun, etc. Stop the bad trip before it happens (which from my experience is extremely rare).

Sometimes bad trips are kinda cool.... once there over I've always felt good and like I learned something

If you want a good trip do it by yourself or with a really good friend or two. Eat something healthy early in the day and make sure you got a lot of sleep. Make a lot of jokes when things go scary.

bellamadia

06-07-2006, 12:02 PM

I haven't posted in a while in this thread because things got quite heated but I actually have been thinking about this a lot in the last few weeks and had somewhat of a change of heart. To a certain degree...

I still believe that most people out there take psychedelics irresponsibly and for the wrong reasons. I still would never do them. That said I realize that I was a bit harsh about the use of psychedelics as a way to obtain spirituality. Let me explain...

We as humans are burdened with a lot of issues, stress, pain, etc. and often times it is INCREDIBLY hard to truly sit down and try to rid of all the baggage in your conscious mind and get deep inside of yourself to realize you own beliefs on life and the world around us. I can see now that perhaps psychedelics are a way to assist some people that can't otherwise seem to do this. I do believe that taking psychedelics for any other purpose is abuse. However, if this enlightenment is what you take from your experiences then it is a good thing. Again, only if you take them responsibly and educate yourself.

That said, I think everyone should at least try to obtain this without psychedelics. I feel it is rewarding if you are able to overcome everything and obtain this with no assistance.

I just wanted to say that I think I get what some of you were saying now.

bellamadia

06-07-2006, 12:30 PM

Agreed, a person with a mind as closed and pessimistic as hers should NOT do drugs. She would scare herself half to death dealing wih her insecurities and demons....I don't know about you people but I can see right through it....she's scared of having to deal with her inner self, veru insecure she seems....no offense homegirl, just laying it out as I see it

Ha ha are you talking about me? Wow you have me all figured out. You are so wise. Really, wait, God, is that you?

I do not need to prove myself to you, though I will simply say, if you "lay it out as you see it," then you need to get your eyes checked my friend.

And, please, seriously, I'd loose the whole "homegirl" thing from your vocabulary. It ruins your street cred homey.

bellamadia

06-07-2006, 12:34 PM

Thats a load of bullshit. Religions do not create harmful situations? Religion itself transforms people into different beings. The intention of your arguments creates the assumption you wish to shun psychedelic drugs (which have been used for beneficial purposes). Yet it has been religion itself that has kept people blind, mediocre, and stupid (and completely ignorant of its own contradicting core values).

You misquoted me and misinterpreted what I was saying here. I agree on what you are saying on religion, read my other posts.

Nate-Dogg85

06-07-2006, 12:40 PM

bellamadia, the wizards of tool summed up the point of your long post into

"so crucify the ego before its far too late"

And i guess i kind of agree with you, but i feel psychadellics are there to teach you those lessons about yourself and show you the path towards enlightenment.

I said that... but i dont truly believe in a 'path' or whatever towards enlightenment. But the point of my last comment was just to basically say that psychadellics open up a door of endless possibilities, and put yourself right in front of you and make you look at yourself under a different light, and under more vulnerable circumstances.

bellamadia

06-07-2006, 01:02 PM

EternalSiGN

06-07-2006, 03:14 PM

well thats cool that i wont like freak out and do something crazy... cant u boil shrooms and make a tea out of it?

PriceisRight

06-07-2006, 06:20 PM

You and bellamadia have absolutely no clue what you are talking about (but she admitted this). Just walking around sober is one big illusion. You only perceive a fraction of the electromagnetic spectrum with your eyes, not to mention the limits of your hearing and touch. These senses only detect a fraction of what is out there. You live in one big illusion, a "matrix". There are certain drugs that can help you see past this illusion and see what is actually there (or at least 50 more layers) by getting inactive centers of the brain active and normally disconnected centers talking to each other. They especially help you see subtle body energy which is the easiest to integrate back into "sober" reality. There is so much more to this realm and the many layers and its interconnectivity to other realms. Once you and a friend have tripped out, entered your light bodies and both went to the same objective place, please let me know. We can then talk. Until then you have no clue.

how do we know that these things you are seeing are a hightened reality.

If what you are saying is true than can we say that the schitzophrenia patients are in hightend reality cause they can see what we cant?

PriceisRight

06-07-2006, 06:29 PM

or better yet...scratch that last question.

You have your way...I have mine.

I can't begin to understand what your saying. Nor you to me.

2 opposing opinions is all that we are.

In conclusion....if it works....go for it.

swampyfool

06-08-2006, 06:49 AM

well thats cool that i wont like freak out and do something crazy... cant u boil shrooms and make a tea out of it?
I've never done it that way, but I've heard of it. Just seems like a waste of time. My advice, make a peanut butter n' 'shroom sandwich (lots of peanut butter) and you won't be able to taste a thing. Dumping them in chili is pretty good, too. Whatever you do, NO DAIRY.

swampyfool

06-08-2006, 07:45 AM

Yes, I have felt the same way as the lyrics in reflections, but I have done this without psychedelics. Not judging, just saying, it is possible. And it is an AMAZING feeling and journey, really really amazing!
If you have come to these realizations without the aid of psychedelics, then cool. But don't think that means that you have made the same journey. We are talking about the difference between believing and seeing/experiencing. You may know about the link that connects all humans, but I've seen it/touched it/smelled it/heard it/tasted it; felt it motivating me towards good works and away from division; tried to play games with it and been burned . . . I've had Rosseta Stoned-type experiences in which I have encountered beings that I thought must've been hallucinations of my mind's creation- until I realized that my friends saw them, too. These beings talk with you over the nature of existence- a hard discussion to have when your concept of extant reality has been shattered.

The experiences that I have had are very hard for me to quantify and qualify- and they happened to me! So while I will believe you when you say that your mind is open to these possibilities; that- in essence- you have accepted much of the communal ethos espoused by users of psychedelia; I say that without the first-hand experience of the use of psychedelia, you cannot begin to understand the magnitude, application, and rationale behind any of it. True, the paths of both psychedelic lucidity and abstention can be used to access destinations of open-minded reality, but your loss is in the journey. You don't get to percieve thngs from this context, but the majority of my life is spent in the perspective of your context. We may reach the same destination, but my eyes will have seen life through the experiences of a different (not necessarily higher) conciousness that is not bound by the limitations of humanity. <sigh> Once again words fail me as I attempt to describe what many before me have categorized as uncapturable in words.

Am I saying that you cannot live a fullfilling life of meaning and philosophical paradox without the aid of psychedelia? No. Merely that an appreciation of such things is greatly enhanced by the psychedelic perspective. Am I reccomending that you take psychedelics? Nnnnnyyyeesssssssss . . . (please hear me out)

You seem to have reached many open-minded conclusions at a time in your life when much of it still lies ahead of you. The ability to contextualize your conclusions in myriad new and previously unfathomable applications would be a reward of unparalleled magnitude for you on levels of which you were previously unaware. You seem to be a very cerebral person; so you should do a lot of research first- but that won't be problematic as their are thousands of applicable sources for such an endeavor. You seem to be a very empathetic person; so you would have to separate yourself your potential USE from your life experience involving persons who have ABUSED these- and other- substances. But f you were to do those things; suuround yourself with people that you trust; and remember to be confident and relax; you would greatly increase your awareness of the truth of the interconnected experience.

Peace.

bellamadia

06-08-2006, 10:50 AM

If you have come to these realizations without the aid of psychedelics, then cool. But don't think that means that you have made the same journey....

We may reach the same destination, but my eyes will have seen life through the experiences of a different (not necessarily higher) conciousness that is not bound by the limitations of humanity.

Yes, you are correct... The Journey will not be the same, but that is also true for person A that takes a psychedelic drug and person B and so on. No 2 people could ever take the same Journey to spirituality. I am completely at peace with taking my Journey the way I choose and you taking yours as you choose. The important thing here is you realize that neither is better, just different. I also feel confident that I do not need to see to believe. I feel it, and I feel it STRONG...that is all I need within myself.

So while I will believe you when you say that your mind is open to these possibilities..... You don't get to percieve thngs from this context, but the majority of my life is spent in the perspective of your context.

I get what you are saying here, but again, it doesn't mean that seeing things from that context is going to be what I want, or need, in reaching my state of enlightenment. Perhaps for me, it isn't the "path" I should, or need, to take.

You seem to have reached many open-minded conclusions at a time in your life when much of it still lies ahead of you. The ability to contextualize your conclusions in myriad new and previously unfathomable applications would be a reward of unparalleled magnitude for you on levels of which you were previously unaware. You seem to be a very cerebral person; so you should do a lot of research first- but that won't be problematic as their are thousands of applicable sources for such an endeavor. You seem to be a very empathetic person; so you would have to separate yourself your potential USE from your life experience involving persons who have ABUSED these- and other- substances.

I feel the above is a pretty fair and accurate description of me. I appreciate the obvious amount of attention you put into understanding where I am coming from. Too many people on this site just click reply and begin to showcase their diarrhea of the mouth syndrome. Despite our different views, I enjoy your posts because I like an intelligent debate. Often in these types of debates I either realize how strongly I believe in something or I realize that maybe what I always thought I believed in, I actually question. Either way I learn something, which is what it's all about.

EternalSiGN

06-08-2006, 11:30 AM

ok no dairy got yea... yea i just want 2 see what my twisted mind will see and experiance because if i meditat i can see some crazy stuff already

Nate-Dogg85

06-09-2006, 07:53 AM

swampyfool

06-09-2006, 08:43 AM

see crazy things when meditating, interesting, i never really see anything unless i connect with some other person, even then my eyes are still closed and its just an overwhelming feeling, no visioanry things.
Meditation is a powerful pathway if you really can achieve that focus. It's a lot harder than it seems it should be, but if you have a couple of weeks to dedicate to perfecting your route to calm; meditation can cause visions, out-of-body experiences, and deep introspection . . . Very similar to psychedelic experiences, but with much less intensity.

EternalSiGN

06-09-2006, 12:03 PM

yea... when i see things i normally see animals... last time i saw a monkey trying 2 grab a butterfly.... idk y.. but thats what i saw

Nate-Dogg85

06-17-2006, 04:49 PM

ummm, out of body experiences yes. Coming to life and opening my eyes in different places, yes. Seeing butterflies, no. Im not doubting you, dont take that idea from what im saying, im just saying its never happened to me. For the past two years, ever since ive learned how to meditate, ive done it at least twice a day since then. I would say ive become very experienced with it and its actually brought me places that drugs havent. My personal belief is that meditation, if done correctly can be even more intense than psychadellic experiences. All these old wackos say the same thing... I really dont know if i completely buy that, seeing as there are a few drugs i havent conqueered yet, but the ones i have experienced dont compare to where ive been with meditation.

NawnimNonNomen

06-18-2006, 12:14 AM

Maybe Thai-stick (you know, that sheet that's tied to a steeck)? But that shit has formaldehyde in it, so it's not safe. If it was hash, then the movie definitely overdid their presentation of the effects. Either way, don't let movies motivate you towards (or away from) certain choices in drug use- they lie, and you're better than that.

Note: I'm correcting only for purposes of informing. Thai-stick has gotten a lot of urban legend built up around it, and the formaldehyde thing is probably one of these. (Earlier people said the same thing about opium, LSD, etc., being added.) Thai-stick is just seedless marijuana buds lined up and wrapped to a stem with fibers from the stalk; this is just a potent delivery system for marijuana. Part of the "Thai" just refered to a street name for marijuana that was really potent compared to the norm. It got its bad reputation mostly from the fact that a toke delivered the same punch as a regular joint. Potent, yeah; dangerous, no more than the cultivated premiums you can find today.

(On a side note, if you're on one end of a shady-feeling deal with a guy who insists he's got some mind-blowing stuff called Thai-stick, take a step back, because he probably is some thug trying to slide you some bizzare shit.)

As for the 'shrooms advice--Everything everyone here has already advised in spades. If I had to prioritize, I'd say
1) Don't use them if you have people relying on you. (For instance, if you've got children in the next room, maybe accept that you've got more pressing demands than trying 'shrooms.)
2) Don't buy mystery 'shrooms. (It's even best to grow your own, since it'll give you a lot of time to get ready.)
3) Don't try them without a sober, rational, non-jackhole babysitter.
4) Don't try them when you're likely to be interrupted.
5) Don't try them if you're feeling really shaky about doing so. (Mindset is everything.)
6) Don't start with huge doses or try and trip to oblivion your first time; take a small amount, expecting to feel a bit adjusted but not expecting to see the world melting. (If you can try a bit and just feel a bit lighter or spacier the first time, there'll always be time to turn on the blender, and the blender will feel safer after the first comfortable experience.)
7) Don't do it on a full stomach, milk, etc.--all the dietary stuff that's mentioned on any site as increasing nauseau or mucking up the chemical reactions.
8) Don't try and get comfortable with other people's ideas of what's comforting. (Yeah, ambient music is great, but this is not the time to listen to Music for Airports for the first time. If Enya relaxes you and all your friends say that's lame, listen to Enya and don't use those friends as babysitters.)
9) Don't try and get comfortable with familiar things that evoke mixed feelings. (Yeah, listening to Tool is relaxing, but there are some tracks that you might want to steer clear of the first time. Rosetta Stoned comes to mind; that one can freak me sober.)
10) Don't try it again if you're really disturbed by the first time, no matter how many people tell you it'll smooth out or that stacking* will balance it out.

*Yeah, just avoid stacking almost all together: always when trying a substance for the first time; always when the mix is contraindicated.

swampyfool

06-18-2006, 09:19 AM

NawnimNonNomen

06-19-2006, 10:55 PM

You wouldn't consider cannabis and 'shrooms to be stacking would you? Because I don't think that there is anything wrong with that combination.

And yeah, you're probably right about the origins of Thai stick, and your admonition against buying some tomorrow is quite sane (and really more what I was referencing). Original Thai stick was nothing dangerous, but what we now call Thai stick (the original is no longer available) is generally any old weed tied to a stick and laced with formaldehyde (most commonly, though unscrupulous dealers are known to deviate from the plan when there is profit to be had). The addition of the formaldehyde makes it so that one hit off of a new-fangled Thai stick does fuck you up considerably more than a hit off a good ol' fashioned bowl- but it is in no way comparable to the effect of smoking a joint, and it is dangerous to boot. It's a bit like LSD. It's very hard to find the real thing anymore (blame Nixon), but you wouldn't know that if you talked to the majority of active acid dealers. Most acid today (see ALD and its further derivitives) is not LSD, though it does induce a similar sensation.

So thanks for the correction- though the advice still stands.

Man, formaldehyde on any old bit of scrub: That's shitty to hear. You sure it's not just "embalming fluid," like street-slang for PCP? Anyway, it wouldn't be shocking to hear, since prohibition always leads to shady combinations. I'm so glad I quit the US drug scene after some time in Europe and Asia; it's just too dangerous to buy anything here. And, yeah, there's no such thing as LSD around me anymore outside of university labs, which probably explains why so many people don't think it strong enough to work as in "Rosetta Stoned."

As for the cannabis-'shrooms mix, it's not contraindicated by any source I've ever read (other than those that just say, "bad plus bad equals double-bad"). I'd still say hold off on the mix the first time trying 'shrooms, if only because I think you should be trying to get that base effect the first time trying anything.

Lysander

06-25-2006, 08:59 PM

swampyfool

06-26-2006, 08:15 AM

I'd just like to be person #86,135 to echo 'fuck coke, extrafuck Heroin, and quadroopalfuck DXM. God. Fucking DXM. I hate it so much I'm using fucking every other fucking word, that's how much of a fucking worthless drug it is.
I'll take #86,136 in that line. Though I'd like to give honorable mention to K, G and any other one-letter drug names that refer to some sort of hormone/tranquilizer for some barnyard animal. Seriously, do want to grow a fourth stomach?

bellamadia

12-06-2006, 07:19 PM

I have not posted on this site in a long time, but I purposely came back to this thread because of a movie I recently saw entitled "What the bleep do we know?" While I admit I am somewhat niave to quantum physics this movie really resonated with me.

I think that now I can understand what some of you have said in this thread about psychadelics bringing out alternate realities and things are "sober" minds can't percieve. I believe that there exists many many things that our mind cannot currently comprehend because of our our preconditioned perceptions. I can see now what psychadelics have to offer. Here are some legitimate questions I have based on this however....

1. If one truly believes that alternate realities and the unseen exists, what would one gain by actually seeing some of them?

2. How can we be confident that these other realities, etc. are any more of a reality or any more beneficial for us than what we currently see?

I'd like to gain a deeper understanding of this from people that do psychedelics. While I have learned to accept the intriguing affects of these drugs, I'm still not sure I buy into the benefits if you are already open minded and accepting of many of the spiritual and metaphysical ideas that some claim come out of it. It seems to me that psychedelics may be a tool for those people that need assistance or proof to believe. But what if I don't? What is the benefit?

FIatIine____

12-07-2006, 03:00 PM

44&4

12-09-2006, 07:29 AM

"Grasshopper, pluck the button from my hand, and you will have attained total enlightenment!"

We're now getting into the whole organic vs. non argument, whether you know it or not. ""Shrooms and weed=OK" other stuff=not so much. A truly interesting double standard, considering that weed is quite possibly the most genetically altered, hybridized, and otherwise fucked with plant in the history of farming, and you can bet they're working on a way to do the same, and predictably farm 'shrooms as well.

The "other stuff", acid, X, dmt, etc... haven't been legitamately manufactured for decades. Pretty much it's in the same boat as meth:Some redneck douche-bag in a "Ski-Doo" jacket, or ambitious college turd with more spending limit on ma's credit card than common sense are making it in their dorm/ trailer/ basement, etc...That being said, there are some who follow the "recipes" closer than others, but it's still amateur hour in Mr. Wizards' lab. Kinda like going to a first year med students dorm for micro-surgery...

BlanketEffect

12-09-2006, 11:40 AM

... I think that now I can understand what some of you have said in this thread about psychadelics bringing out alternate realities and things are "sober" minds can't percieve. I believe that there exists many many things that our mind cannot currently comprehend because of our our preconditioned perceptions. I can see now what psychadelics have to offer. Here are some legitimate questions I have based on this however....

1. If one truly believes that alternate realities and the unseen exists, what would one gain by actually seeing some of them?

2. How can we be confident that these other realities, etc. are any more of a reality or any more beneficial for us than what we currently see?

I'd like to gain a deeper understanding of this from people that do psychedelics. While I have learned to accept the intriguing affects of these drugs, I'm still not sure I buy into the benefits if you are already open minded and accepting of many of the spiritual and metaphysical ideas that some claim come out of it. It seems to me that psychedelics may be a tool for those people that need assistance or proof to believe. But what if I don't? What is the benefit?

I see your concern.

For me, I do psychedelics very rarely nowadays (except perhaps pot, if a psychedelic you consider it) - When I was doing them, it was mostly in my 'searching' phase, shortly after leaving Christianity behind, which was actually initially catalyzed by an Ayahuasca trip.

I gained this experiential knowledge of these other dimensions and what the implications of that could be. So I started looking for truth elsewhere. I eventually found a religion/school of thought that almost completely matched the conclusions I'd drawn while in the grips of a psychedelic state and during reflections thereafter.

So now then...

1. If one truly believes that alternate realities and the unseen exists, what would one gain by actually seeing some of them?

Part of those unknown realities is their unknown occupants/intelligence. Expeiencing those absolutle alien mindstates never ceases to give radically altered point of views and perspectives on matters in 'the real world' that spur sober growth and purpose.

2. How can we be confident that these other realities, etc. are any more of a reality or any more beneficial for us than what we currently see?

Because I see the paradigm our culture, people, and indeed our world are in right now as a result of 'acceptable, mainstream thinking' and it's shit. There's a sense and an unspeakable logic in the ability to examine an issue or idea from fifty angles simultaneously (not uncommon with psychedelic drug experiences) - It declouds the mind and allows the mind to delve fully within itself into the boundless unlimit of imagination - you can think and reason and contemplate on a scale that is not even conveyable to the sober mind - but you bring back your conclusions. And for me those conclusions have led to an intense inner peace and drive for growth and change.

Now I have kids so I don't really trip very much but I still think just like deep meditaion and prayer, psychedelic drugs will always have something to offer us in terms of learning and growing - if we choose to use them that way.

LVX

12-09-2006, 03:34 PM

im not dosing anymore and havent for a long time. mostly cause im 37. when i was younger i partied with the best of em, but as you get older your body doesnt recover so quickly.

did do shrooms 2 years ago at a DEAD concert, but it was a small dose, just some mild euphoria.

But to comment on what has been said in this very long thread, i never did lose myself so to speak on lsd and forget where i was or run off and do something crazy. The most intense experiences only occured with certain people, mostly mind swapping and telepathy, or having the awareness that their was a higher force controlling everything in such a manner that certain things were going to happen and could not be diverted. like knowing you were about to see someone and walking round the corner and there they are.

Or having a feeling like you were in someone else's mind (who also was dosing and had been seperated from you) and things were getting quite uncomfortable and just on time that person would return and the two of you would exchange some energy and be back to yourself again and be like "whew that was close" but somehow you knew it was all controlled by subconscious forces or powers operating outside of you and was ok.

But after an experience like that, you would retain something of that person, in that you knew how their mind or thinking process went, and you could know deeply intimate things about that person, how they really are. things that could not be put into words. that is what i call mind swapping.

bellamadia

12-12-2006, 01:43 PM

First, thanks for answering my questions intelligently. I feel some of the people on here are perfect examples as to how these drugs are abused and I'm really looking for answers on how psychedelics can help one spirtually. I see your concern.

For me, I do psychedelics very rarely nowadays (except perhaps pot, if a psychedelic you consider it) - When I was doing them, it was mostly in my 'searching' phase, shortly after leaving Christianity behind, which was actually initially catalyzed by an Ayahuasca trip.

I gained this experiential knowledge of these other dimensions and what the implications of that could be. So I started looking for truth elsewhere. I eventually found a religion/school of thought that almost completely matched the conclusions I'd drawn while in the grips of a psychedelic state and during reflections thereafter.

I hear what you are saying here. I have been going through the same exact thing for the last 2 years, less the drug part that is. So while I did not gain experiential knowledge, I have no doubts to what you describe. I've netted out in a great place, spiritually speaking, and feel like a completely different person.

So now then...

1. If one truly believes that alternate realities and the unseen exists, what would one gain by actually seeing some of them?

Part of those unknown realities is their unknown occupants/intelligence. Expeiencing those absolutle alien mindstates never ceases to give radically altered point of views and perspectives on matters in 'the real world' that spur sober growth and purpose.

Perhaps I can buy into the the logic that while one may believe in these other dimensions, one cannot fully reap benefits in the real world until they have experienced it, giving one a deeper understanding.

2. How can we be confident that these other realities, etc. are any more of a reality or any more beneficial for us than what we currently see?

Because I see the paradigm our culture, people, and indeed our world are in right now as a result of 'acceptable, mainstream thinking' and it's shit. There's a sense and an unspeakable logic in the ability to examine an issue or idea from fifty angles simultaneously (not uncommon with psychedelic drug experiences) - It declouds the mind and allows the mind to delve fully within itself into the boundless unlimit of imagination - you can think and reason and contemplate on a scale that is not even conveyable to the sober mind - but you bring back your conclusions. And for me those conclusions have led to an intense inner peace and drive for growth and change.

I completely agree with you that MOST people walk around this world making decisions and acting according to "mainstream" thinking. They believe in only what they know, see and have been told. They never question anything... they never open their minds to "these infinite possibilities." To not do this takes hard work. You need to recondition yourself, your reactions, your mindset, your train of thought, and most importantly, rise above the shit that is beaten into us by society. I am one of those people that makes a concious effort to do this every day. It seems to me that what you're saying here is this psychedelic use would help one to do this, and if you are already someone that does this, it will only help your further development. While this reality may not be any more or less of reality than what you see on psychedelics, they can at the very least offer you a different perspective.

Overall, what I don't understand is that it seems to me that most people don't gain these types of insight from psychedelics. How can you "make sure" so to speak, that this is what happens on your trip? I know people that have done psychedelics, I've read posts on this site and others. Most of them sound like idiots. Let's say 1 out of every 75 people have gained what you are describing here from psychedelic use. So what's the difference for some peoples trips vs. others?

BlanketEffect

12-12-2006, 05:20 PM

Overall, what I don't understand is that it seems to me that most people don't gain these types of insight from psychedelics. How can you "make sure" so to speak, that this is what happens on your trip? I know people that have done psychedelics, I've read posts on this site and others. Most of them sound like idiots. Let's say 1 out of every 75 people have gained what you are describing here from psychedelic use. So what's the difference for some peoples trips vs. others?

Intentions. Other peoples' moods around them. True willingness to be open to the experience. Preparation.

Intention, I think, is the most important one, however.

If you go into it because you want to have a good time and party and whatever - basically if you're just looking for some new way to be entertained or get fucked up (which is what most do) then that's all you're likely to get out of it.

People you trip with also are important - if you trip with a bunch of teenage stoners who don't know/care about shit then you aren't going to get as much out of it. I was fortunate to have five amazingly wonderful open people to share the experience with while it was going on. This in no small way contributed.

In short, there is no guarantee. You do what you can - most importantly, you have to want to learn from it and change.

BlanketEffect

12-15-2006, 08:44 AM

Neither one of them was a very stable person to begin with, they both listen to death metal etc.

*laughs* I listened to death metal until I did psychedelics.

XeuphoricXmindX

12-15-2006, 08:51 AM

lmao

bellamadia

12-19-2006, 10:05 AM

Intentions. Other peoples' moods around them. True willingness to be open to the experience. Preparation.

Intention, I think, is the most important one, however.

If you go into it because you want to have a good time and party and whatever - basically if you're just looking for some new way to be entertained or get fucked up (which is what most do) then that's all you're likely to get out of it.

People you trip with also are important - if you trip with a bunch of teenage stoners who don't know/care about shit then you aren't going to get as much out of it. I was fortunate to have five amazingly wonderful open people to share the experience with while it was going on. This in no small way contributed.

In short, there is no guarantee. You do what you can - most importantly, you have to want to learn from it and change.

Thanks Blanket. I think I get it, and can see the rationale now. That said, I'm still pretty convinced it's not my path but I'm glad to have opened my mind more to the possibilities.

BlanketEffect

12-19-2006, 05:42 PM

...I'm still pretty convinced it's not my path but I'm glad to have opened my mind more to the possibilities.

My only goal.

Inner_Eulogy

12-26-2006, 10:50 AM

I see your concern.

For me, I do psychedelics very rarely nowadays (except perhaps pot, if a psychedelic you consider it) - When I was doing them, it was mostly in my 'searching' phase, shortly after leaving Christianity behind, which was actually initially catalyzed by an Ayahuasca trip.

I gained this experiential knowledge of these other dimensions and what the implications of that could be. So I started looking for truth elsewhere. I eventually found a religion/school of thought that almost completely matched the conclusions I'd drawn while in the grips of a psychedelic state and during reflections thereafter.

So now then...

1. If one truly believes that alternate realities and the unseen exists, what would one gain by actually seeing some of them?

Part of those unknown realities is their unknown occupants/intelligence. Expeiencing those absolutle alien mindstates never ceases to give radically altered point of views and perspectives on matters in 'the real world' that spur sober growth and purpose.

2. How can we be confident that these other realities, etc. are any more of a reality or any more beneficial for us than what we currently see?

Because I see the paradigm our culture, people, and indeed our world are in right now as a result of 'acceptable, mainstream thinking' and it's shit. There's a sense and an unspeakable logic in the ability to examine an issue or idea from fifty angles simultaneously (not uncommon with psychedelic drug experiences) - It declouds the mind and allows the mind to delve fully within itself into the boundless unlimit of imagination - you can think and reason and contemplate on a scale that is not even conveyable to the sober mind - but you bring back your conclusions. And for me those conclusions have led to an intense inner peace and drive for growth and change.

Now I have kids so I don't really trip very much but I still think just like deep meditaion and prayer, psychedelic drugs will always have something to offer us in terms of learning and growing - if we choose to use them that way.

Very well put and totally agreed. It's the kids out there just taking it to simply get fucked up and whatnot that are having the bad trips or taking so much and so often their brains are fried. They give it a bad name, I haven't had the opportunity to do any hallucinogen in a long long time as I am also grown with a child but, I know very well what you mean about what one can take away from the experience. I have longed for an opportunity to get ahold of some somehow and one day do once again to reflect on some things. Or more so to, look inside and re-evaluate/re-program some things within my life. This is one thing I was able to do when I did use in my teenager days is I was able to gain a sense of drive and understanding of my own life as well as others and the nature of life itself which one would not get normally without them. I quit smoking after being on a trip when I was younger by digging mentally within my own mind and somehow re-arrange my mental wiring (which may sound like a weak path to take but, I never would've been able to quit or wasn't ever able to beforehand). Unfortunately, I started again about 2yrs later but it truly can work wonders if one uses it correctly and with good intentions.

mentosman42

12-26-2006, 11:41 AM

the best advice i can tell you is when ur taking it try not to be nervious expecially with shrooms nothing bad is going to happen even if you do get a bad trip thats all it is a trip its not like when you are tripping on shrooms you dont know that you took shrooms, if u do have a bad trip just try to calm down and just remember that its just a trip and its gonna be over soon

the #1 thing to do while taking any psychedelics is have a sitter, get a friend that wants to try it aswell and take it one at a time and have the other person be sober and stay with you incase you freak out they are there to calm you down and assure you

annnnnnd start small, whatever drug you are taking just take a little i remember the first time me and a friend tried salvia we smoked an entire bowl of extract each and we both had really bad trips but the best way to stop that from happening is try a little and then if you liked that try a little more until you get to the point where you are satisfied with the feeling

to be honest i dont do a ton of psychedelics, shrooms, salvia, acid once in a blue moon but if you are gonna try other things make sure you find out some info about them and ALWAYS buy from some1 you can trust, the worst thing is getting something that is laced with a way worse drug and then you can get into some of the dangerous situations(i.e. pure ecstasy isnt all THAT dangerous the real dangers are when it is laced with other drugs)

if you are smart about it drugs can be a fine thing, you just need to know your own boundaries

ThirdEyEwidEopEn

12-26-2006, 11:44 AM

"A psychedelic experience is a journey to new realms of consciousness. The scope and content of the experience is limitless, but its characteristic features are the transcendence of verbal concepts, of space-time dimensions, and of the ego or identity. Such experiences of enlarged consciousness can occur in a variety of ways: sensory deprivation, yoga exercises, disciplined meditation, religious or aesthetic ecstasies, or spontaneously. Most recently they have become available to anyone through the ingestion of psychedelic drugs such as LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, DMT, etc. Of course, the drug does not produce the transcendent experience. It merely acts as a chemical key — it opens the mind, frees the nervous system of its ordinary patterns and structures."

"Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities — the political, the religious, the educational authorities — who attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, regulations, informing — forming in our minds — their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable open-mindedness, chaotic, confused vulnerability to inform yourself."

"Drugs are the religion of the 21st century."

"Your only as young as the last time you changed your mind."

BlanketEffect

12-26-2006, 02:35 PM

I quit smoking after being on a trip when I was younger by digging mentally within my own mind and somehow re-arrange my mental wiring (which may sound like a weak path to take but, I never would've been able to quit or wasn't ever able to beforehand). Unfortunately, I started again about 2yrs later but it truly can work wonders if one uses it correctly and with good intentions.

Due to a breakthrough during an Ayahuasca/DMT dream I stopped getting drunk. I almost never drink now and never to intoxication. It's just dumb, you know? Just kinda makes you more ignorant than you already may be.

And while kinda stoned about a year ago I decided to cease smoking cigarettes after a pack-a-day for ten years. Haven't smoked a single one since then, 16 months ago. I doubt I'll start back. No inclination.

Psychedelics are as useful as you let them be. Or make them be.

ThirdEyEwidEopEn

12-27-2006, 11:27 AM

"And while kinda stoned about a year ago I decided to cease smoking cigarettes after a pack-a-day for ten years. Haven't smoked a single one since then, 16 months ago. I doubt I'll start back. No inclination."

Damn musta been some uber sticky nugs...Jan 1st is coming ive made a quitting resolution. Makes me think of that 1 joke. "It is hard to quit smoking. Every one of them looks pretty good to me right now. Every cigarette looks like it was made by God, rolled by Jesus and moistened shut with Claudia Schiffer's pussy right now." As for alcohol your exactly right its ritarded last time I drank, I was prolly 14 lots of vodka, bad bad experience. SO yea havent ever really drank much of anything theirs way more fun shit out there than some fucking alcohol. The american media fuggin pumps that shit so hard, think of all the god damn beer commercials you see everyday if your a tv watcher, I try to limit myself but ive seen it. They want you fat, stupid, and drunk. ALcohol kills people everyday too, but yet weed is still illegal their fucking on crack, weed doesnt harm anyone, why is it not legal tell me? Bill said well you know why I think weed is illegal...cause anyone can fucking grow that shit and that would lead to profit... they wouldnt want that now would we. "They lie about marijuana. Tell you pot-smoking makes you unmotivated. Lie! When you're high, you can do everything you normally do just as well … you just realize that it's not worth the fucking effort. There is a difference." "The war on drugs to me is absolutely phoney; it's so obviously phoney, okay? It's a war against our civil rights, that's all it is. They're using it to make us afraid to go out at night, afraid of each other, so that we lock ourselves in our homes and they get to suspend our rights one by one."

ThirdEyEwidEopEn

12-27-2006, 08:56 PM

Heres a review of learys, change your brain I found quite awesome. Have any of you read huxleys book the doors of percepetion? Heres that review

This is valuable information, not from a guru or merely eccentric mind, no, but from a former Harvard University psychologist who subjectively and objectively and systematically tested, experimented and clinically proved that LSD and other psychedelics and their subsequent human reactions, mind interpretations and experiential conscious observations were both beneficial and related to outside the limited human mind or chessboards of values and ideas. Of course the government's are threatened by any and all such ideas that venture outside their limited schematical ideas and systems used for social structure, control and submissive subjection and therefore administer intensely unjust persecution.

But to write this information off as arbitrary and valueless is the common human response to change and growth as a human evolutionary species, a rejection that has been practiced since the beginning of time. Therefore those enlightened by such spiritual, rational/non-rational perceptive illuminations have remained relatively unspoken for many thousands of years and have paradoxically been the progenitors of all religious teachings and many political ideologies.

From chapter 8: "To use our heads, to push out beyond words, space-time categories, social identifications, models and concepts, it becomes necessary to go out of our generally rational minds. . .

Our present mental machinery cannot possibly handle the whirling, speed-of-light, trackless processes of our brain, our organ of consciousness itself. . .

We cannot study the brain, the instrument for fabricating the realities we inhabit, using the mental constructs of the past. . . "

And from Chapter 9:
"From the standpoint of established values, the psychedelic process is dangerous and insane - a deliberate pscyhotization, a suicidal undoing of the equilibrium man should be striving for. With its internal, invisible, indescribable phenomena, the psychedelic experience is incomprehensible to a rational, achievement-oriented, conformist philosophy. but to one ready to experience the exponential view of the universe, psychedelic experience is exquisitely effective preparation for the inundation of data and problems to come."

What impressed me about Leary's information is that of mental imprinting - which only occurs during infancy and/or early childhood, the period of stasis - which is basically our entire lives, and the idea of reimprinting, or breaking on through the imprinted frozen or previously impressed mind - which can occur through psychedelics.

Apparently, there is a short time period as an infant only for many species, or both infant and early childhood for humans, which then ends shortly, permanently imprinting the humans social and cultural frame of mind through linguistics for the remainder of their lives. Experiments with birds and the immediate introduction towards a human, or even a ping pong ball, causes the bird to search for this parental ideal the remainder of their lives. As humans we are subject to the attempt to the ideals that were first exposed to us in early childhood, attempting to get as close to that model for the remainder of our lives, anotherwards we all take a still snapshot on reality, forever freezing our interpretation on what otherwise is a moving transient reality.

With psychedelics, there is an opening again as in infancy and early childhood where a person can perceive the moving essence of reality outside our snapshot of imprinted mindset, our still schematic, and see the moving, multifacted reality in its many different levels, through more than one of the chakras, where one then reimprints their minds with new perceptions of reality and refocuses on previous chessboard structures, thus re-entry into society with much broader and wider perceptive capabilities with significant healing properties that are extremely beneficial.

This book is truly ahead of it's time, and of course, rejected as non-conforming to traditional paradigms and therefore considered a major threat to the comfort zones of our societal and cultural games that we take too seriously as a one and only level of reality.