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bellamadia
05-03-2006, 07:12 AM
I know some of you will think this is kind of lame but I thought it would be nice to start a thread where people could write about how they relate to the subject of this song (and Judith and Orestes for that matter). I know that these songs really helped me to get through the hard time I am having with my nana and I thought other people might benefit from hearing how others have gone through similar situation.

My nana (my closest and favorite gramdma) had a massive stroke in Feburary that has left her paralyzed on her left side. That includes her mouth so it makes it hard for her to talk (and much of what she says doesn't seem to make a lot of sense), her bladder which means she needs to wear a diaper and be changed, and her flap in her throat that allows her to swallow which means that she cannot eat and receives nutrients through a tube. Whats worse than all of that though is to see her, a once strong, spunky, wise cracking, funny, independant woman, struggle with having to be dependant on people to change her, feed her through a tube, etc. I can see the frustration in her eyes, the pain of feeling like you've lost your dignity. When I witnessed this, I felt many many of the things Maynard talks about in Judith. Anger towards a supposedly fair God. My mother sitting there praying for her, my nana requesting that the preist come in. It pissed me off. I just didn't understand how he could do this to someone that has always been a good woman and lived according to the teachings of the God that she believed in. Then she had a few moments where we thought she wasn't going to make it. I saw my mom break down, not being able to make the decision to let her die though we all thought it was a seemingly better alternative to living like this. Instead she opted to keep her alive and heavily medicate her to help her to get through the pain and depression. I listened to Oresetes to help me get through this and I even played it for my mom (who is not into that kind of music) and she broke down and cried, she loved the song. We could relate so well to what he was saying. Now with Wings for Marie and 10,000 Days I know that they will help me to get through this when she does eventually pass. I'm not there yet because I am still feeling angry that she is just living day by day in this horrible state waiting to die, but from these songs I feel hope that I will be able to accept it to some degree.

Ok that was long, I wonder if anyone will actually read this. Well, if you did, has anyone else had a similar experience?

martyr_02
05-03-2006, 07:46 AM
actually yeah i kinda do have something similar. Here's what I relate the song(s) to.

At my graduation party last year I was fucking high the whole day. I didn't really talk to any friends or family members that came through, because to be honest I really didn't know what was going on. Later in the day when the majority of the people had left, and only some of my imediate family was left, i went and took a roadie with a buddy of mine. When I left I didn't really say goodbye to anyone, particularly my grandma, didn't hug her, didn't do shit. In the time I was gone, my grandmother and some aunts and uncles left to return home. Later that night I found out that my grandmother and aunt had been in a car accident, and my grandma had died. I blamed myself for the longest time after that, and prayed every day for my grandma to forgive me. That was the first thing I thought of when I heard this song.

Also in the week after that, i listened to TOOL heavily and a lot of how I dealt with it is due to them, I also changed a lot of what i hold dear and what i think is important in that time.

bellamadia
05-03-2006, 07:54 AM
actually yeah i kinda do have something similar. Here's what I relate the song(s) to.

At my graduation party last year I was fucking high the whole day. I didn't really talk to any friends or family members that came through, because to be honest I really didn't know what was going on. Later in the day when the majority of the people had left, and only some of my imediate family was left, i went and took a roadie with a buddy of mine. When I left I didn't really say goodbye to anyone, particularly my grandma, didn't hug her, didn't do shit. In the time I was gone, my grandmother and some aunts and uncles left to return home. Later that night I found out that my grandmother and aunt had been in a car accident, and my grandma had died. I blamed myself for the longest time after that, and prayed every day for my grandma to forgive me. That was the first thing I thought of when I heard this song.

Also in the week after that, i listened to TOOL heavily and a lot of how I dealt with it is due to them, I also changed a lot of what i hold dear and what i think is important in that time.

Oh man thats awful. We all get caught up in our lives sometimes that we don't stop to pay attention to people we should. You certainly don't think everytime you see someone "This might be the last time I see them, I should let them know how much I love them" so I hope you don't blame yourself. You're human.

martyr_02
05-03-2006, 07:56 AM
no i don't anymore. the whole funeral process helped me through it, definately the hardest thing i've ever done in my life. Talking to family and frineds about helped unbelievable amounts.

Martin
05-03-2006, 10:00 AM
Well, I know EXACTLY what it's like. I lost my father when I was 17 due to a heart failure. He was 43. I was in disbelief. I didn't believe it. Didn't want to believe it. Not until I saw him lying in the coffin, did I believe it. It's still hard to think about and comprehend. You'd think you might get over it, but you never really, truly do. And he was so damn brilliant. He had an insane knowledge base and knew people everywhere, so I didn't just lose a great father, an inspiring mentor and a great teacher - I lost a resource, I lost the guide in my life, I lost a part of me. But I also gained other things, like experience. I learned to live with him as a guide despite the fact that he's dead. I've learned to let it go, but still hold on. It was not until after his death that I began to really understand all the stuff he taught me and told me about when I was a kid. You don't know what you got 'till it's gone.

Death is a part of life. It's the price we pay for living.

NAD
05-03-2006, 10:17 AM
I love my mom and can't imagine life without her. That's about it really.

JunkyWolf
05-03-2006, 10:17 AM
My mother had cancer. It came out of nowhere, really. She had had breast cancer, and it was cleared up, according to her doctors. As a matter of fact, the day we found out that she had cancer again, she got a letter in the mail from her oncology center saying, "Congrats on making it 5 years and being cancer free"! The irony was not appreciated.

She went through a lot of pain. 3 months worth of her outside looking better while her insides getting worse. She went through a lot before she finally passed, the cancer started in once place and, in three months, was EVERYWHERE. The only thing I could think of once she passed was how all of her spiritualality had let her down. She was abandoned by the same universe that she thought that she served.

I got hit in the chest with a sledgehammer when I heard, "Ten thousand days in the fire is long enough, you're going home." It's almost exactly what I said to my mother the night before she passed.

Once she was sedated and asleep, she kept coughing this horrible cough, so I went out on my patio with a pack of smokes (I know the irony...i'm so very well aware, but no, she was never a smoker in her entire life) and listened to Aenima and Lateralus in my headphones. I woke up the next morning with my Grandmother standing over me saying, "John...your mother has passed."

I was actually happy about it. I felt that finally did go home.

I love TOOL.

bellamadia
05-03-2006, 10:24 AM
My mother had cancer. It came out of nowhere, really. She had had breast cancer, and it was cleared up, according to her doctors. As a matter of fact, the day we found out that she had cancer again, she got a letter in the mail from her oncology center saying, "Congrats on making it 5 years and being cancer free"! The irony was not appreciated.

She went through a lot of pain. 3 months worth of her outside looking better while her insides getting worse. She went through a lot before she finally passed, the cancer started in once place and, in three months, was EVERYWHERE. The only thing I could think of once she passed was how all of her spiritualality had let her down. She was abandoned by the same universe that she thought that she served.

I got hit in the chest with a sledgehammer when I heard, "Ten thousand days in the fire is long enough, you're going home." It's almost exactly what I said to my mother the night before she passed.

Once she was sedated and asleep, she kept coughing this horrible cough, so I went out on my patio with a pack of smokes (I know the irony...i'm so very well aware, but no, she was never a smoker in her entire life) and listened to Aenima and Lateralus in my headphones. I woke up the next morning with my Grandmother standing over me saying, "John...your mother has passed."

I was actually happy about it. I felt that finally did go home.

I love TOOL.

Ok wow, that story actually made me tear up. Sorry for your loss. Isn't it amazing how music can help get you through things as intense as that. I don't care what criticisms any TOOL CD has received on this site, THIS is the shit that matters!

bellamadia
05-03-2006, 10:27 AM
Well, I know EXACTLY what it's like. I lost my father when I was 17 due to a heart failure. He was 43. I was in disbelief. I didn't believe it. Didn't want to believe it. Not until I saw him lying in the coffin, did I believe it. It's still hard to think about and comprehend. You'd think you might get over it, but you never really, truly do. And he was so damn brilliant. He had an insane knowledge base and knew people everywhere, so I didn't just lose a great father, an inspiring mentor and a great teacher - I lost a resource, I lost the guide in my life, I lost a part of me. But I also gained other things, like experience. I learned to live with him as a guide despite the fact that he's dead. I've learned to let it go, but still hold on. It was not until after his death that I began to really understand all the stuff he taught me and told me about when I was a kid. You don't know what you got 'till it's gone.

Death is a part of life. It's the price we pay for living.

Very true. I can't imagine. It seems that you have come to terms in your own way too, the way you let him guide you in life, thats great.

bellamadia
05-03-2006, 10:28 AM
I love my mom and can't imagine life without her. That's about it really.

Well that's a good point, perhaps these songs make us all appreciate our family and friends more, even if it's for a moment. Good shit.

bloodydecember
05-03-2006, 10:31 AM
Beautiful Thread girl. I really admire you for this.

My grandmother has been in and out of the hospital for the last three years. She has back problems, a broken hip, a bad bladder, and several other things. She has been suffering for quite a while now. Nothing near the paralysis of Judith for 27 years but I think she is being robbed. She is one of the strongest people I know and her faith is unwavering. I heard 10,000 days and cried, literally cried because it reminded me of my grandmother. I'm afraid that she is on her last leg and won't live out the year. My and my grandmother are very close. I dont know what I am going to do when she dies.

bellamadia
05-03-2006, 10:48 AM
Beautiful Thread girl. I really admire you for this.

My grandmother has been in and out of the hospital for the last three years. She has back problems, a broken hip, a bad bladder, and several other things. She has been suffering for quite a while now. Nothing near the paralysis of Judith for 27 years but I think she is being robbed. She is one of the strongest people I know and her faith is unwavering. I heard 10,000 days and cried, literally cried because it reminded me of my grandmother. I'm afraid that she is on her last leg and won't live out the year. My and my grandmother are very close. I dont know what I am going to do when she dies.

Thanks. Ugh, I know exactly what you are saying, its sad. Honestly, this may sound bad but it all makes me hope that I just die in my sleep one night when Im 98. Ya know? Do you find that this experience has made you question kharma a lot? I used to believe that if you do the "right" thing in life, treat people with kindness, follow the commandments or whatever set of rules you sibscribe to in your religion, that God (or whoever) will take care of you. It's bullshit, plain and simple. It really doesn't matter WHAT we do, theoretically speaking.

AshleyDyan
05-03-2006, 12:44 PM
Tool has definitely helped me through some hard times, as they obviously have for you all, as well. My grandfather (whom I was very close to.. he was like a father to me) was diagnosed with cancer a few years ago. After surgery and treatment the cancer left, but a few years later reappeared. After his cancer came back, I served as his caregiver (I quit my job and stopped going to school to take care of him around the clock) and we became even closer than we had been before. Things would go in waves- one week he would be doing really well, and the next he'd be bedridden- for quite some time, until finally he stopped getting out of bed and became really weak. He went through the hospice program, and all throughout his dying process I was torn between wanting him to stay here with me and wanting him to pass, so he'd be away from his pain and suffering. He passed in his own home, in his own bed, and with his whole family with him. It was the most bittersweet moment I've ever experienced- sorrow for my own loss and happiness for his new ability to join his wife in the afterlife. Throughout the time that I was caring for him, Tool was almost the soundtrack for my life. It's comforting to have that soundtrack carry on with 10,000 Days- it places my thoughts and emotions to a song that I can revisit and cry along to or be happy to for my grandfather.

The anniversary of my grandfather's death is on May 11- two days after that I'm going to the Tool concert.. I'm almost hoping they don't play that song- I don't know how I'd react.

bellamadia
05-03-2006, 12:52 PM
The anniversary of my grandfather's death is on May 11- two days after that I'm going to the Tool concert.. I'm almost hoping they don't play that song- I don't know how I'd react.

Who knows, the experience could be so powerful that it uplifts you, ya know? I hope it does.

bellamadia
05-03-2006, 12:53 PM
I hope that my mother finds peace when she passes away. She will never find it here, and I'm sick of watching from the sidelines while she slips deeper into her lifelong fight with pain and addiction. It hurts to watch, but it would have killed me to try to help anymore than I already had.

That's what I think of when I hear these songs.

Yikes, that must be very hard to watch. It's hard when the child is the one that feels they need to be strong for the parent. Makes you grow up a hell of a lot faster.

Cynical/Sarcastic
05-03-2006, 01:35 PM
I have not heard any of the songs yet, but I know I will most likely have a reaction to these songs. That's how music affects me, and I appreciate it. My grandmother passed away 7 years ago, and we all miss her so much. The last call we ever got from her, she said, "Help me." We got over there and paramedics came and took her away. She was in the hospital for quite a while, and my sister and I were not allowed to see her due to our respective ages. (I will hate such policies until the day I die.) My sis and I never got the chance to say goodbye, and the one memory of my Grandmother that I do have during that period is of a strong, devout, wise, and awesome woman unable to respond to her children, or to respond or react to anything at all. I don't know what disease took her away, but I do think, from my own personal experience, that my Grandmother deserved whatever divine rewards she believed in. I don't say that to be narcissistic, but it's just how I feel about her. It saddens me that just before everything happened, my Grandmother was simply hanging out with all of us at our house watching a typically crappy Lifetime movie, and the next minute she dies alone in a hospital bed without her children and grandchildren around. I don't believe in Jesus' divinity, but I hope he or some other angel was with Grandmother when G-d called for her. If I may be allowed to say so, I believe she deserved her wings as well.

Artemis
05-03-2006, 04:23 PM
I relate to this song alot. To me it's about holding strong through tough situations. Courage in adversity. My sister had a stroke when she was 21 (she is now 33). She is paralysed in the right side of her body, has brain damage and will always need 24 hour care. But inside it's still my sister i grew up with. She had her dreams crushed. But she still remains positive. She struggles, but she makes the most of what she's got. She won't ever give up. To me that's inspirational. She is my pillar of faith. Whenever i think things are tough for me, it's not for very long, as i realise how lucky i am. She has certainly earnt her wings. This song hit me pretty hard.

bellamadia
05-03-2006, 04:31 PM
I relate to this song alot. To me it's about holding strong through tough situations. Courage in adversity. My sister had a stroke when she was 21 (she is now 33). She is paralysed in the right side of her body, has brain damage and will always need 24 hour care. But inside it's still my sister i grew up with. She had her dreams crushed. But she still remains positive. She struggles, but she makes the most of what she's got. She won't ever give up. To me that's inspirational. She is my pillar of faith. Whenever i think things are tough for me, it's not for very long, as i realise how lucky i am. She has certainly earnt her wings. This song hit me pretty hard.

I don't know that I could really be as strong as your sister, I truely think that is amazing. I wish her all the best.

bellamadia
05-03-2006, 04:36 PM
I have not heard any of the songs yet, but I know I will most likely have a reaction to these songs. That's how music affects me, and I appreciate it. My grandmother passed away 7 years ago, and we all miss her so much. The last call we ever got from her, she said, "Help me." We got over there and paramedics came and took her away. She was in the hospital for quite a while, and my sister and I were not allowed to see her due to our respective ages. (I will hate such policies until the day I die.) My sis and I never got the chance to say goodbye, and the one memory of my Grandmother that I do have during that period is of a strong, devout, wise, and awesome woman unable to respond to her children, or to respond or react to anything at all. I don't know what disease took her away, but I do think, from my own personal experience, that my Grandmother deserved whatever divine rewards she believed in. I don't say that to be narcissistic, but it's just how I feel about her. It saddens me that just before everything happened, my Grandmother was simply hanging out with all of us at our house watching a typically crappy Lifetime movie, and the next minute she dies alone in a hospital bed without her children and grandchildren around. I don't believe in Jesus' divinity, but I hope he or some other angel was with Grandmother when G-d called for her. If I may be allowed to say so, I believe she deserved her wings as well.

That last phone call sent chills down my spine. That is AWFUL that you weren't allowed to see her in the hospital because of your ages, what the fuck kind of horrible policy is that? And by the way, it's not nacissistic to think that of your grandmother, that is love and admiration. You should definitely listen to these songs, I think you will find comfort in them or at least validation of your feelings.

Opunaela10
05-03-2006, 04:39 PM
This song made me think of a good friend of mine who lost his young mother (43 years of age) ...She was diagnosed with Lupus and was presrcibed the wrong medication and died in result

He never got over her death ... he constantly beat himself up thinking how he could have prevented it

He suffered for so many years until he took his life just last year

An amazing guy ...and a big TOOL fan....wish he could have been here to share the beauty of this album

GreenSmurf
05-03-2006, 04:41 PM
I would just like to say that I do not relate. I am a cold hearted mother fucker. I do not know if I have ever felt emotions on the same level as other people because I just blow it off. I guess its because I seem to always calice myself a bit more after I am pained. The last time I remember feeling something was when I was in love with an exgirlfriend. I loved her very much but I can only say that now I do not remember how it feels anymore.

JShaney
05-03-2006, 04:45 PM
I hear ya all....sad stories, Maynard put in some fine words in this song considering his apparent disagreements with his mothers beliefs.....
Makes me wonder if (as Maynard was raised catholic) this "job-like story" of his mother is what convinced him that the religion could not be justified.

My wife's sister had a stroke a few years ago at the age of 22 or 23, and she has been disabled similar to Maynard's mother.....it is intriguing when you can relate to the songs/stories and be able to understand it's context more fully. I know that as with the case of my sis-in-law (who is catholic) there are many times she and those who love her question how a god would allow this to happen when they are good, faithful people.

When I heard Judith recently:
"you're such an inspiration for the ways that i would never ever choose to be
oh so many ways for me to show you how your dogma has abandoned you"
I understood a little better what he meant after hearing 10000 day.

and goes on to.."its not like you killed anyone, tasted the fruit, choked on a lie, or speared Jesus"
but yet "you never stray, never break, and you pray to Jesus Christ"
even though "he left you broken down and paralyzed"

seems as though he may have decided catholicism was not quite "legit" possibly from first hand experience of what happened to his mother....

Cynical/Sarcastic
05-03-2006, 04:47 PM
That last phone call sent chills down my spine. That is AWFUL that you weren't allowed to see her in the hospital because of your ages, what the fuck kind of horrible policy is that? And by the way, it's not nacissistic to think that of your grandmother, that is love and admiration. You should definitely listen to these songs, I think you will find comfort in them or at least validation of your feelings.

Thank you very much. My mom has ordered the CD for me, and when I get home, I will reimburse her. Then I will listen to this CD and enjoy it for myself, and not the other people in the 10K Days forum who think they are the musical masters of the universe, whichever way they swing toward 10K Days.

Muladhara
05-03-2006, 04:57 PM
My mum died in 2001.

She was addicted to painkillers for as long as I can remember, pain got worse, ended up taking all her painkillers on the day she got them and drinking full bottles of whiskey in a day for the next week until she got some more.

Her mother had taken one of her sons from her, thinking she wasn't able to raise him, he called her (my gran) mother, I think that hurt her a lot. She'd always been pretty naive, people took advantage of her a lot.

Men seemed to cheat on her all the time, she didn't seem to have any hopes or dreams, apart from lying on a beach somewhere nice and warm. I'm sure she did have dreams but, life gets in the way you know?

I kinda know how she felt.

I hope she got wings.

The last phone call my mum made was to my sister asking her to come over and help her but she couldn't, my sister had 3 young kids at the time and couldn't travel the 50 miles to my mum's house. You have no idea how guilty and bad she feels about that.

My nan, on the other hand, lived around the corner.

Eventually my nan went round, after nobody had heard from my mum in days. Found her alone on the settee, she'd been dead a few days.

I thought the whole thing was my fault for running away when I was 16 because I couldn't handle her drinking, she was spending all the money I got for college and sleeping throughout most of the day and night and I was having to fend for myself. I can't really remember much about it, I think I blocked most of it out.

I still feel guilty.

So yeah. this song and Wings for Marie kinda affect me, a little.

bellamadia
05-03-2006, 06:19 PM
I thought the whole thing was my fault for running away when I was 16 because I couldn't handle her drinking, she was spending all the money I got for college and sleeping throughout most of the day and night and I was having to fend for myself. I can't really remember much about it, I think I blocked most of it out.

I still feel guilty.

So yeah. this song and Wings for Marie kinda affect me, a little.

wow, that's a pretty crazy experience. It sounds like you did what was best by leaving that situation though. Sometimes you are left as the only one to take care of yourself, and you stepped up and did what you had to do. I'm sure you are in a better place because of it, and it's probablly what your family really wanted for you deep down inside, ya know?

gamegod195
05-03-2006, 07:07 PM
wow, im glad i found a thread like this.

my mom died of cancer when i was two. i never really knew her. all i have are pictures. from what i hear, she was a very strong willed person. ive never cried to a tool song like i have to this. maynards lyrics far surpass anything that a normal musician could write.

i have listened to tool since 1998 and will never stop.

peace...

bloodydecember
05-03-2006, 07:11 PM
Thanks. Ugh, I know exactly what you are saying, its sad. Honestly, this may sound bad but it all makes me hope that I just die in my sleep one night when Im 98. Ya know? Do you find that this experience has made you question kharma a lot? I used to believe that if you do the "right" thing in life, treat people with kindness, follow the commandments or whatever set of rules you sibscribe to in your religion, that God (or whoever) will take care of you. It's bullshit, plain and simple. It really doesn't matter WHAT we do, theoretically speaking.

I know what you mean. I really do question that a lot. I do my best to try and make a positive difference in other people's lives (unless they cut me off on the road, haha) and I mean, I'm not expecting any reward or anything but it would be nice for those who "do no wrong" to be able to die without suffering. It seems the ones who lead the best lives are the ones that die young or painfully. Nobody told me life was fair but I think whoever put us here could have done justice a better job...

themayanlion
05-04-2006, 12:45 AM
i have not lost a close family member yet, but what struck me about thsi song is that i would make the same kind when my mother dies.

she is a very devout Catholic, probably teh most faithful person i have ever met. i left the faith for my own reasons, which did hurt her some, but i strive to connect with her on somethings. for example, we share a bond in the virgin mary, her for catholic reasons, me for the symbolism of a virgin mother (among other things) and because of a dream i had.

with this song, yeah. i just imagine myself doing the exact same thing for her when she dies.

haha it just sucks maynard beat me to it.

profundo giallo
05-04-2006, 10:35 AM
My mum had a brain aneurysm like Maynards mum, but she died instantly from it at the age of 44 so this song has a extra resonance for me.Its a beautiful tribute to his mother and yes sometimes listening to it brings a tear to my eye.
I always feel very emotional when i see Tool live but god knows how this will effect me when i hear it but im sure it will be a special moment.

This song to me is Tools finest moment.

bloodydecember
05-04-2006, 06:42 PM
My mum died in 2001.

She was addicted to painkillers for as long as I can remember, pain got worse, ended up taking all her painkillers on the day she got them and drinking full bottles of whiskey in a day for the next week until she got some more.

Her mother had taken one of her sons from her, thinking she wasn't able to raise him, he called her (my gran) mother, I think that hurt her a lot. She'd always been pretty naive, people took advantage of her a lot.

Men seemed to cheat on her all the time, she didn't seem to have any hopes or dreams, apart from lying on a beach somewhere nice and warm. I'm sure she did have dreams but, life gets in the way you know?

I kinda know how she felt.

I hope she got wings.

The last phone call my mum made was to my sister asking her to come over and help her but she couldn't, my sister had 3 young kids at the time and couldn't travel the 50 miles to my mum's house. You have no idea how guilty and bad she feels about that.

My nan, on the other hand, lived around the corner.

Eventually my nan went round, after nobody had heard from my mum in days. Found her alone on the settee, she'd been dead a few days.

I thought the whole thing was my fault for running away when I was 16 because I couldn't handle her drinking, she was spending all the money I got for college and sleeping throughout most of the day and night and I was having to fend for myself. I can't really remember much about it, I think I blocked most of it out.

I still feel guilty.

So yeah. this song and Wings for Marie kinda affect me, a little.

This is the reason the whole emo scene right now is pissing me off. Kids today think that they have something to bitch about because daddy wont buy his princess a new fucking car for her 16th birthday. Fuck 'em. You have more of a reason to be fucked about something than any of those rich assholes. And I'll bet you're more fuckin normal than half of those pussies.

I apologize if I have offended anybody by this but this is something I feel passionatly about. I dont like people who complain about things cause complaints get you nowhere in life, it just loses people's respect for you, and respect, at least mine, is hard to earn back.

I really appreciate you for opening up like this; you've got stones (or really big... ovaries? if you happen to be female).

Muladhara
05-04-2006, 06:45 PM
This is the reason the whole emo scene right now is pissing me off. Kids today think that they have something to bitch about because daddy wont buy his princess a new fucking car for her 16th birthday. Fuck 'em. You have more of a reason to be fucked about something than any of those rich assholes. And I'll bet you're more fuckin normal than half of those pussies.

I apologize if I have offended anybody by this but this is something I feel passionatly about. I dont like people who complain about things cause complaints get you nowhere in life, it just loses people's respect for you, and respect, at least mine, is hard to earn back.

I really appreciate you for opening up like this; you've got stones (or really big... ovaries? if you happen to be female).

I appreciate that, thanks.

I happen to have stones.

Oh and I'm not normal :D, well, depending on what normal is, if it's those emo kids with the Flock of Seagulls hairdos then definately not. :D

bloodydecember
05-04-2006, 06:49 PM
Oh and I'm not normal :D, well, depending on what normal is, if it's those emo kids with the Flock of Seagulls hairdos then definately not. :D

Yeah, I should have phrased that differently because "normal" is all perspective. I think mature would have been better usuage.

And the flock is definatly >REdiculous<

pSYCHOtHErAPIST
05-04-2006, 07:34 PM
I see many of you mentioning that when a loved one passes after much suffering, it is feels like God has turned his back on them.

Let me share my perspective.

I'm a Lutheran, and we were always told that God isn't a personal assistant to answer yes to all you ask for. all prayers are answered. only some are answered with a "yes".

In fact, we were always prepared by our teachers to undergo more suffering as a result of being Christian---from ridicule and such.

We are taught that pain and suffering are the results of sin in the world, not of punishment by God or his own apathy.

Still it is understandable to feel this way; even Christ, as he hung from the cross, asked his Father why he had forsaken his Son.

Prayer and faith are means to strengthen us and give us real hope that this painful life is not all we will ever experience. After Christ felt forsaken by God, he gave up his spirit into his Father's hands. I'm sure many of the loved ones you've lost gave their spirit to him in much the same way, as painful as it appeared to be from the outside.

I've sufferend the loss of grandparents (3 months apart) who raised me like parents. My church suffered the loss of our pastor's 19 year old son. Faith is the only way I ever could have survived these losses. I guess it all depends on your perspective.

Christian sects that preach the almighty power of prayer for healing and televangelists who heal with their suitcoats are preaching a bastardized form of christianity.

I hope you use what I've posted to help experience your loss from a different perspective. Please use it as a good-intentioned TOOL to help you in your grief, rather than a platform to curse my beliefs or call me names, as is so often done. I'm not here preaching, but I'm not apologizing either.

win
05-04-2006, 07:42 PM
I posted this in a seperate thread and although it is not directly in response to what you posted, I feel it is thematicly appropriate and if anyone wants to respond they can do so here or on the other thread:

There isn't really a forum section for general talk about the CD. So I figured this would be the best place to write...

I love Tool. Their earlier stuff (which I will say kind of ends in Aenima) is amazing- thoughtful and unique is great. But really starting with lateralus a whole new level is started. A much more fluid, spiritual and profound (of course this is all in my opinion) type of music is started in lateralus. This is the part of Tool that really evokes in me a purely emotional and beautiful reaction that is so primal and yet so radically complex that I feel that its pull is undeniable to anyone who gives it a few listens through. When I first listened to the album I thought to my self that this was some slight regression- a halfway between lateralus and Aenima. Over five years of taking Lateralus for granted I had forgotten the patience and astute ear that was necessary the first several times through lateralus to appreciate it. In the last few days I have poured through it, reading more on these forums than writing- learning and understanding. The time my good friend and I really started to originally appreciate their work apart from the other artists we listened to (at that time I lsitened to more metal, which I really don't anymore except for this band if you consider it metal) was when we started reading existentialism. The absolute authenticity of sincerity and emotion of all of the music stuck me in a way that I am sure it has many of ya'll. It is songs like reflection, disposition, and triad that really evoke this in me more so that songs like opiate, 46 and 2, and hooker with a penis (although I obviously still love them). As I have gone through every song a number of times and read on this album has brought something out that I never thought it could: a true resurgence of the type of catharsis and empathy that art was meant for. It is at moments like "its time now, my time now, give me my- give me my wings!" and "I never lived a lie. I never took a life" as it was with "as I pull my head out, I am with one doubt" that the finality and infinite significance of their art grabs a hold of me in a way that articulation does no justice.

We have poured from all over the world to try to share the spark of human emotion with each other on these boards. This CD is beautiful in every way possible and I am just happy that I can share this moment with others. With that said, I just wanted to open a thread for people to share their moments with others. Please post your sincere feelings and these moments. If nothing else, I would love to understand what others have come to feel from it and I will read all of your responses with the greatest sincerity, sensitivity and understanding.

Un coup de dés
05-04-2006, 08:20 PM
I know some of you will think this is kind of lame but I thought it would be nice to start a thread where people could write about how they relate to the subject of this song (and Judith and Orestes for that matter). I know that these songs really helped me to get through the hard time I am having with my nana and I thought other people might benefit from hearing how others have gone through similar situation.


The best part of this thread is how you reply to pretty much every poster, mad props to you.

My grandmother died this year of a fairly debilitaing disease with a really long name, basically the connection between nerves and muscles gradually degrade over the course of your life, and you lose controll of your muscles, age substantially faster, and get progressively weaker, and it was pretty harsh. I was never really aware of how much I valued her opinion while she was around. She was very into Classical music, and never liked any of my music, not even tool, said it was the same thing over and over again, which it clearly isn't. anyway. The past two years I have been going to university working towards a Bachelor of Music degree, and since I started school again I never got a chance to see her, just talk to her on the phone, she always seemed quite proud of me and my newfound passion in music. Strange how she is such a bigger influence to me now that she is dead than she ever was alive. I try alot of the time to make sure she would be proud of everything I do.

bellamadia
05-05-2006, 04:47 AM
Christian sects that preach the almighty power of prayer for healing and televangelists who heal with their suitcoats are preaching a bastardized form of christianity.

I hope you use what I've posted to help experience your loss from a different perspective. Please use it as a good-intentioned TOOL to help you in your grief, rather than a platform to curse my beliefs or call me names, as is so often done. I'm not here preaching, but I'm not apologizing either.

Seriously, I TRUELY admire your devotion and faith. The ability to believe unconditionally. I really wish that I could feel the same as you, I want to... I just keep letting logic and doubt get in the way of my ability to believe.

bellamadia
05-05-2006, 04:52 AM
The best part of this thread is how you reply to pretty much every poster, mad props to you.

My grandmother died this year of a fairly debilitaing disease with a really long name, basically the connection between nerves and muscles gradually degrade over the course of your life, and you lose controll of your muscles, age substantially faster, and get progressively weaker, and it was pretty harsh. I was never really aware of how much I valued her opinion while she was around. She was very into Classical music, and never liked any of my music, not even tool, said it was the same thing over and over again, which it clearly isn't. anyway. The past two years I have been going to university working towards a Bachelor of Music degree, and since I started school again I never got a chance to see her, just talk to her on the phone, she always seemed quite proud of me and my newfound passion in music. Strange how she is such a bigger influence to me now that she is dead than she ever was alive. I try alot of the time to make sure she would be proud of everything I do.

Thanks, I feel like I started it trying to encourage people to post their personal experiences so the least I can do is acknowledge them for putting themselves out there like that. I have to say, It has been very enlightening reading everyone's experiences.

I think my Dad's aunt had a similar condition to your grandmother. If it's what I have seen, it is a very horrible and sad disease. I'm sure that you made her very proud and I think it's awesome that though she has passed, you continue to try to make her proud. I believe people are here to serve many purposes in life. Maybe that was one of her purposes in life ( to motivate you) and you are helping her to fulfill it even after death.

bellamadia
05-05-2006, 04:53 AM
We have poured from all over the world to try to share the spark of human emotion with each other on these boards. This CD is beautiful in every way possible and I am just happy that I can share this moment with others. With that said, I just wanted to open a thread for people to share their moments with others. Please post your sincere feelings and these moments. If nothing else, I would love to understand what others have come to feel from it and I will read all of your responses with the greatest sincerity, sensitivity and understanding.


Looks like we were thinking along the same lines. Yes, it is an incredibly beautiful CD, particularly Wings (1&2)

selectforsocietalsanity
05-05-2006, 05:05 AM
When I heard this I also thought I could relate to this song. I lost my grandfather back in March and it was very hard to deal with because Ive learned alot from him. And now my godmother has been told she doesnt have long to live because of an inoperable tumor. But she will be much better off when the suffering ends. Unfortunately death is a necessary process in life. We are all dying as soon as we breathe our first breath.

bellamadia
05-05-2006, 05:06 AM
We are all dying as soon as we breathe our first breath.

I like that quote. At least we can all take comfort in the fact that we all go through the same thing... we all watch someone we love die and we all die. We're all in it together.

MartyV
05-05-2006, 05:49 AM
I believe that pretty much anyone can relate to this song. I've seen my share of people who have been in the fire of tragedy and torment for 10,000 days and more. Some of them from an accident and some from self loathing and the refusal to realize that with age comes growth. At some point we have to realize that decisions we make will affect the rest of our live and those who love us. My godfather was a great person, one who could make even the worst of situations seem fine. He was also an addict, and that is what ultimately caused his death. His soul was tormented and now he finally has his wings

bloodydecember
05-05-2006, 06:44 AM
I

I'm a Lutheran, and we were always told that God isn't a personal assistant to answer yes to all you ask for. all prayers are answered. only some are answered with a "yes".



There was a quote (Im not going to say from where because you may think that it has no credibility) but it says "It's not easy being God. If you do too much people become dependent on you, but if you do too little people forsake you. You have to do just enough to where it looks like you haven't done anything at all.

win
05-05-2006, 06:56 AM
I know some of you will think this is kind of lame but I thought it would be nice to start a thread where people could write about how they relate to the subject of this song (and Judith and Orestes for that matter). I know that these songs really helped me to get through the hard time I am having with my nana and I thought other people might benefit from hearing how others have gone through similar situation.


just as a note I am kinda pissed. I just wrote another sincere comment on this thread and just before I clicked submit reply the browser closed, i guess of its on volition. Hmph, machines. Anyway what I was going to say was...

I have been lucky enough to not have had anything tragic happen to any of family members, but in some ways I feel like I can relate. This is impart because I think one of the things Tool does so much better than other bands is abstracting emotion (not just lyrically but musically as well). Almost every concert of theirs I have gone to or seen online Maynard has asked the audience to remember the feelings and emotions they have shared that night. I am majoring in english and philosophy and one thing I love is existentialism's emphasis on human emotions as integral in empowering our life to having a meaning. I think the empowerment of emotions is so important in Tool's music. For example the band used to say that their name was chosen because they wanted to be a tool for people to understand lachrymology through, which is a made up philosophy that claims that crying and emotional release is theraputic and that coming to terms with these emotions empowers individuals. In this way I think one can speak about relating to this song in almost any way. Themes of anger, sadness, understanding, closure, hope are all tied in this song. The one thing I don't see is despair. Maynard seems, although possibly scared and sad, seems to be coming to terms in this song. The empowering invigeration of lines like "its my time now" and "judith marie, unconditional one" remind me of that cathartic feeling once one does come to terms with whatever has tormented them and overcome despair. I can not seem to stop listening to this song for this reason. Another time I might get in to the details of turmoils that music like this has helped me through, but for now I would rather not. I hope everyone else can feel even a fraction of the positive and life affirming climaxes that I feel when I listen to this song because it is awe inspiring.

Loveboat Captain
05-08-2006, 01:32 PM
I haven't had any experiences close to the ones mentioned here. But the song made me appreciate everything more. Friends, family, life in general. I had a little tear first time. But now its just a reminder of how precious everything is. It definatly put my priorities right.

martyrinexile86
05-08-2006, 04:52 PM
A couple years ago my grandmother was diagnosed with ALS (Lou Gehrig's Disease) which is basically a gradual detioration of the muscles over time. I remember when it started she used to just fall alot inexplicably, and then it got to the point where she could no longer walk at all, and towards the end couldn't even talk. I remember when me, my dad, and my uncle were over at her house, and I can't remember what happened, but they had to call the hospital. Sitting there having to see her be loaded into the ambulance is something that for as long as I'm on this earth I'll never forget. She died in so much pain, stripped of any semblance of dignity. Although she had a tendancy to be quite cold at times, no-one deserves to die like that. All the same, I hope she's recieved her wings for all she had to endure while on this planet.

bloodydecember
05-08-2006, 05:24 PM
A couple years ago my grandmother was diagnosed with ALS (Lou Gehrig's Disease) which is basically a gradual detioration of the muscles over time. I remember when it started she used to just fall alot inexplicably, and then it got to the point where she could no longer walk at all, and towards the end couldn't even talk. I remember when me, my dad, and my uncle were over at her house, and I can't remember what happened, but they had to call the hospital. Sitting there having to see her be loaded into the ambulance is something that for as long as I'm on this earth I'll never forget. She died in so much pain, stripped of any semblance of dignity. Although she had a tendancy to be quite cold at times, no-one deserves to die like that. All the same, I hope she's recieved her wings for all she had to endure while on this planet.

Read Tuesdays With Morrie by mitch album if you haven't already. Great work of art.

martyrinexile86
05-08-2006, 05:37 PM
yeah I've heard that book is really good, my dad tried to get me to read it, but I never got around to it.

bloodydecember
05-09-2006, 04:27 PM
you really should. it made me re-think my life. Morrie Schwartz was a genuine good person and I try to model myself (somewhat unsuccessfully) after him.

martyrinexile86
05-09-2006, 05:08 PM
you really should. it made me re-think my life. Morrie Schwartz was a genuine good person and I try to model myself (somewhat unsuccessfully) after him.
I really appreciate the suggestion, thanks.

bloodydecember
05-10-2006, 05:03 PM
There's a movie that came out a while later that was, oddly enough, promoted by Oprah. You dont get the same experience that you do reading it but I think it does a pretty good job of portraying the book, that is if you want to save some time or dont enjoy reading that much.

martyrinexile86
05-11-2006, 08:43 AM
No, like most, I find watching the movie to be no substitute for reading the book. Personally I read alot. Reading Animal Farm right now, pretty damn good.

bloodydecember
05-19-2006, 09:37 AM
Yeah, I think the only time I've ever had a better experience with the movie is LOTR. Other than that I would agree for the most part. I still say that the movie for tuesdays with morrie is admirable.

martyrinexile86
05-21-2006, 11:47 AM
Yeah the LOTR series gets a little bloated and tedious from a literary standpoint. It still goes down as the single longest book I've ever read, took me a couple months.

martyrinexile86
05-21-2006, 11:47 AM
Thought the films were very well done however.

Lily17
05-22-2006, 08:27 PM
I relate to this song because of my best friend. She was a hardcore Tool fan as well. She was in an accident and was in a coma and then ultimately, a vegetative state for 4 months. Her death was horrible but she didn't deserve to be in the position she was in. She's not suffering anymore and that's what ultimately matters more than not having her here with me. This song has affected me more than I can describe in words and I thank them for that. This is why they have meant so much to me and always will. I don't usually write personal things like this but I must say that I'm glad there are other people who can relate to his story as well as mine. It's somewhat comforting. :)

The Dharma Bum
05-23-2006, 10:16 AM
This song is by far the most personal song tool has ever written, it hits so close to home. My grandmother died May 4th 2001. Right around the time of Lateralus. 10,000 days was released 2 days before the 5 year mark of her death. She was by far the most important person in my life, and a firm believer in the god of Abraham. I am not a believer. She raised me and we were quite close. When she was first diagnosed with Cancer, as she was sleeping in her hospital bed (at this time there was still a chance that she could live) and this preacher came offering to pray for her and the family. I exploded. I couldn't believe this black clad vulture would have the nerve to come hovering around my grandmother as if she were already gone, salivating at the chance for her soul. I told him to shove his fucking god up his ass, and if he didn't get stepping promptly I would show him the difference between the quick and the dead. I'm glad my grandma was asleep during this tirade. Anyway, lateralus was a huge part of my healing process, but when I first realized what Wings 1 & 2 were about, I was overwhelmed with emotion. I simply couldn't believe what I was hearing; I balled like a baby. It is surreal how this event in Maynards life parallels my own life. I will forever hear the lyrics as:
You were my witness,
My eyes, my evidence
Ruth Irene, unconditional one.

bellamadia
05-23-2006, 05:26 PM
[QUOTE=Lily17]I relate to this song because of my best friend. She was a hardcore Tool fan as well. She was in an accident and was in a coma and then ultimately, a vegetative state for 4 months. Her death was horrible but she didn't deserve to be in the position she was in. She's not suffering anymore and that's what ultimately matters more than not having her here with me. This song has affected me more than I can describe in words and I thank them for that. This is why they have meant so much to me and always will. I don't usually write personal things like this but I must say that I'm glad there are other people who can relate to his story as well as mine. It's somewhat comforting. :)[/QUOTE

Ugh, for some reason I hate hearing car accident stories. I guess maybe because they are so sudden and change things so very fast. I had a similar situation with an ex boyfriend, he didn't end up dying but he was paralyzed, etc. for 2 years. It was AWFUL to watch! I can't imagine loosing a bestfriend that way. That must have been so hard!

bellamadia
05-23-2006, 05:31 PM
this preacher came offering to pray for her and the family. I exploded. I couldn't believe this black clad vulture would have the nerve to come hovering around my grandmother as if she were already gone, salivating at the chance for her soul.

Beautifully written! It takes guts to admit you had this thought, I had a very similar thought but was almost scared to admit it. Crazy isn't it? Well, you can take comfort in the fact that this was not the imagery the preacher brought to your grandmother... to her it wasn probably very peaceful and comforting.

bloodydecember
05-23-2006, 10:46 PM
This song is by far the most personal song tool has ever written, it hits so close to home. My grandmother died May 4th 2001. Right around the time of Lateralus. 10,000 days was released 2 days before the 5 year mark of her death. She was by far the most important person in my life, and a firm believer in the god of Abraham. I am not a believer. She raised me and we were quite close. When she was first diagnosed with Cancer, as she was sleeping in her hospital bed (at this time there was still a chance that she could live) and this preacher came offering to pray for her and the family. I exploded. I couldn't believe this black clad vulture would have the nerve to come hovering around my grandmother as if she were already gone, salivating at the chance for her soul. I told him to shove his fucking god up his ass, and if he didn't get stepping promptly I would show him the difference between the quick and the dead. I'm glad my grandma was asleep during this tirade. Anyway, lateralus was a huge part of my healing process, but when I first realized what Wings 1 & 2 were about, I was overwhelmed with emotion. I simply couldn't believe what I was hearing; I balled like a baby. It is surreal how this event in Maynards life parallels my own life. I will forever hear the lyrics as:
You were my witness,
My eyes, my evidence
Ruth Irene, unconditional one.

please dont take this the wrong way but it made my night reading this. I probably would have reacted the same way. It really disgusts me when they try to pray for their God to heal this person that is inches away from death. The day that that happens is the day I become a believer and after losing two grandparents to cancer and have a preacher try that both times, i dont see that happening any time soon...

Rodney Ashley
05-24-2006, 11:19 AM
Looks like we were thinking along the same lines. Yes, it is an incredibly beautiful CD, particularly Wings (1&2)

Nice thread! wings and 10,000 days have helped me soooooooo much! I lost my mother to a masive brain anurisum (uncertain of spelling) May 10, 2005. delt with alot scence then.... she was deep into religion! had alot of faith.. She was raised as a catholic, so was very devoted to god! Then she explored budda...she would chant to her gohanzan and then say a rosery.... She'll have a piece of the divine! Tool is like medicine! Give me one more peacefull medicated moment!!

bloodydecember
05-24-2006, 06:38 PM
Give me one more peacefull medicated moment!!
Wow, deja vu! I just changed my away message on AIM to that today. Weird...

Sorry, a little off track. As you were...

new-born
05-24-2006, 10:12 PM
Really powerful stories, really iīm touched by some. This might sound lame as i canīt relate as many of you, but this is how i do. It reminds me a lot of my exgirlfriend. She saved me after two suicide attempts, and kept me from probably a succesful one. Really dramatic experiences. She took me to a hospital unconscious and with my wrists bleeding IN A CAB, cause she doesnt have a car. The other one was worse. She have really bad things in her, but with me she was really devoute, caring and loving. And yet we are away now.
"she didnīt had a life, didnīt had a life, but surely saved one" She saved mine... twice.

toolmaul
05-24-2006, 10:20 PM
I know this doesn't sound as painful to some, but a month ago I had to puit my 15 year old dog down. oughest thing I've ever had to do, shit I got her when I was ten, I hardly remember not having her. This song touched me, but being an athiest, and her being a dog, I can't speak for her beliefs, not that she had any. suprisingly though Eulogy hit me really hard a few days days after I put her down. The goodbye at the end broke me down.
Still my favorite song on the album and one of my favorite Tool songs, increadibly emotional.

thomasknight
05-24-2006, 11:06 PM
There was a quote (Im not going to say from where because you may think that it has no credibility) but it says "It's not easy being God. If you do too much people become dependent on you, but if you do too little people forsake you. You have to do just enough to where it looks like you haven't done anything at all.

Futurama?
Very credible - latest seasons are some of the best stuff from the states at the moment

bellamadia
05-25-2006, 09:58 AM
I know this doesn't sound as painful to some, but a month ago I had to puit my 15 year old dog down. oughest thing I've ever had to do, shit I got her when I was ten, I hardly remember not having her. This song touched me, but being an athiest, and her being a dog, I can't speak for her beliefs, not that she had any. suprisingly though Eulogy hit me really hard a few days days after I put her down. The goodbye at the end broke me down.
Still my favorite song on the album and one of my favorite Tool songs, increadibly emotional.

No dude, putting my dog of 12 years down was one of the HARDEST things I EVER had to do. I think it is so hard because animals tend to give you UNCONDITIONAL love, which is so hard to find. They are innocent and free of all of the issues us humans have. It's also sad because a lot of people that have faith in "heavan" may not feel that pets have sould that live on for eternity in bliss. It feels like a true end, which hits hard!

bellamadia
05-25-2006, 09:59 AM
Really powerful stories, really iīm touched by some. This might sound lame as i canīt relate as many of you, but this is how i do. It reminds me a lot of my exgirlfriend. She saved me after two suicide attempts, and kept me from probably a succesful one. Really dramatic experiences. She took me to a hospital unconscious and with my wrists bleeding IN A CAB, cause she doesnt have a car. The other one was worse. She have really bad things in her, but with me she was really devoute, caring and loving. And yet we are away now.
"she didnīt had a life, didnīt had a life, but surely saved one" She saved mine... twice.

It's a nightmare living when you don't love yourself or life very much. Luckily for you, she seems like a great person. I really hope you are in a better place now.

bellamadia
05-25-2006, 10:00 AM
Nice thread! wings and 10,000 days have helped me soooooooo much! I lost my mother to a masive brain anurisum (uncertain of spelling) May 10, 2005. delt with alot scence then.... she was deep into religion! had alot of faith.. She was raised as a catholic, so was very devoted to god! Then she explored budda...she would chant to her gohanzan and then say a rosery.... She'll have a piece of the divine! Tool is like medicine! Give me one more peacefull medicated moment!!

Sorry about your mother, that was so recent too. :( Tool is DEFINITELY powerful medicine.

bloodydecember
05-26-2006, 05:58 PM
Futurama?
Very credible - latest seasons are some of the best stuff from the states at the moment

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!