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chrysanthemum81
05-02-2006, 08:26 PM
I know there's a consensus that it says: "Judith Marie, unconditional one," but does anyone else hear "Judith Marie, her condition won?"

plexus
05-02-2006, 08:28 PM
I know there's a consensus that it says: "Judith Marie, unconditional one," but does anyone else hear "Judith Marie, her condition won?"
naw dog... naw

bogsnarth
05-02-2006, 08:47 PM
redundant post alert:

i still hear this line as "unconditional warmth".

chrysanthemum81
05-02-2006, 08:55 PM
Unconditional warmth makes more sense than unconditional one, but "her condition won" makes the most sense within the context of the song.

Stev
05-02-2006, 08:56 PM
Not really. How can you win a condition?

bogsnarth
05-02-2006, 09:04 PM
s/he is saying that the condition (the aneurism that put judith in the wheelchair and eventually killed her) won out in the end.

since150
05-02-2006, 09:05 PM
According to the gossip from within this forum alone, consensus is Keenan's mother died in 2003, ~10,000 days after she was paralysed in ~'76. Her condition (i.e. paralysis) won.

Stev
05-02-2006, 09:21 PM
Right. Gotchya. Still don't buy it though, sorry.

I just think 'condition' is a very clinical term for what happened to her, given the poetic figurative language throughout the rest of the song.

It still doesn't quite flow logically at any rate. The 'condition' of something, is the state it is in. If Judith died, then her condition (paralysis) did not win. It changed. From paralysed to deceased.

I do get what you're saying, I just don't think it fits the language of the rest of the song, nor do I think it works particularly well. Sorry.

peolesdru
05-02-2006, 10:15 PM
The syllables of the lyric could sound like "her condition won". But I think that interpretation is caused by the fact that Maynard tends to wind up to a vowel syllable with an H sound, as in "hunconditional one". What seals it for me, is the "AL" at the end of unconditional is very clear. I cannot say positively if it's "one" or something like "warmth", but "one" makes more sense.

Stev
05-02-2006, 10:28 PM
Actually, again going with logic, 'warmth' makes more sense.

Being 'one', is neither conditional nor unconditional. Something is 'one' or it is not - being one doesn't depend on a condition.

Warmth, like love, can be conditional or unconditional.

To say that Judith was an 'unconditional one' doesn't really make much sense. Of course she was conditional about some things, that's the nature of humanity.

To say that Judith was 'unconditionally warm' (or Judith Marie - unconditional warmth) makes a lot more sense logically.

I don't know which is the correct line, I can hear either Warmth or One when I listen to it - but following logic, 'unconditional warmth' makes the most sense.

kmg1171
05-02-2006, 10:42 PM
.

peolesdru
05-02-2006, 11:34 PM
"unconditional one" makes perfect sense to me. I get your point, but I don't see any language barrier to saying "unconditional one" - one who is unconditional. Unconditional is usually associated with love, so I'd say an "unconditional one" is one who demonstrates the most common unconditional trait: love. But hey, it could easily be "warmth", but I don't often use the phrase "unconditional warmth".

Stev
05-02-2006, 11:54 PM
I know what you're saying, but no one is completely unconditional. You can love unconditionally, you can hate unconditionally, you can do any number of things unconditionally - but you cannot simply be unconditional. All of us are affected by condition at some point or in some way.

I understand how 'unconditional one' could take the most common action that unconditonality is attached to - love - and extend it to be 'one who loves unconditionally' but it is quite a stretch and it's a meaning that is not clearly implied in the wording.

It does work, but it's a bit of a stretch to get there and for that reason I think the most logically suitable option is 'warmth'.

That said, my eternal loop of 10,000 Days just happened to reach this point as I was writing this post, and I swear I can hear the 'n' sound in one. So who knows. I'm just arguing the logical side of it as I tend to do :)

peolesdru
05-03-2006, 05:27 AM
Well argued - my money's still on "one".

martyr_02
05-03-2006, 11:30 AM
Actually, again going with logic, 'warmth' makes more sense.

Being 'one', is neither conditional nor unconditional. Something is 'one' or it is not - being one doesn't depend on a condition.

Warmth, like love, can be conditional or unconditional.

To say that Judith was an 'unconditional one' doesn't really make much sense. Of course she was conditional about some things, that's the nature of humanity.

To say that Judith was 'unconditionally warm' (or Judith Marie - unconditional warmth) makes a lot more sense logically.

I don't know which is the correct line, I can hear either Warmth or One when I listen to it - but following logic, 'unconditional warmth' makes the most sense.

I see where your coming from but "unconditional one" could mean a couple things. Of course, love is obvious, being that she is maynards mother and a parents love is unconditional. It could also be about her faith being unconditional, she kept strong in her faith over her 27 year ordeal which kept her strong, while maynard may have blamed god and couldn't understand her unwavering faith.

Could mean or be something else. Just my 2 sense

bellamadia
05-03-2006, 11:44 AM
I know what you're saying, but no one is completely unconditional. You can love unconditionally, you can hate unconditionally, you can do any number of things unconditionally - but you cannot simply be unconditional. All of us are affected by condition at some point or in some way.

I understand how 'unconditional one' could take the most common action that unconditonality is attached to - love - and extend it to be 'one who loves unconditionally' but it is quite a stretch and it's a meaning that is not clearly implied in the wording.

It does work, but it's a bit of a stretch to get there and for that reason I think the most logically suitable option is 'warmth'.

That said, my eternal loop of 10,000 Days just happened to reach this point as I was writing this post, and I swear I can hear the 'n' sound in one. So who knows. I'm just arguing the logical side of it as I tend to do :)

You theory makes sense when taken out of contents but when he says unconditional "one", I think one refers to a religions person or a believer. Judith, unconditional believer. This song is about her unconditional beliefs and faith.

CaseLogic
05-03-2006, 01:34 PM
http://www.omgosh.com/unconditional.mp3

I kind of messed with it some so you can hear the lyrics better... it seems to be pretty clearly "unconditional one"

Besides... unconditional one makes more sense than unconditional warmth. The song isn't about how she treated her son or anyone... it's about her faith. Her faith is unwaivering... it's unconditional. She's the unconditional one with regards to her faith, the point of the song.

ProdigyDub
05-03-2006, 01:35 PM
http://www.omgosh.com/unconditional.mp3

I kind of messed with it some so you can hear the lyrics better... it seems to be pretty clearly "unconditional one"

Besides... unconditional one makes more sense than unconditional warmth. The song isn't about how she treated her son or anyone... it's about her faith. Her faith is unwaivering... it's unconditional. She's the unconditional one with regards to her faith, the point of the song.

Gay.

CaseLogic
05-03-2006, 01:36 PM
Gay.

You're pretty quick to seek the gay, aren't you?

ProdigyDub
05-03-2006, 01:39 PM
You're pretty quick to seek the gay, aren't you?

Baxter you know I don't speak Spanish.

CaseLogic
05-03-2006, 03:49 PM
Baxter you know I don't speak Spanish.

I'm not even mad, that's amazing

bogsnarth
05-03-2006, 03:50 PM
http://www.omgosh.com/unconditional.mp3

I kind of messed with it some so you can hear the lyrics better... it seems to be pretty clearly "unconditional one"

Besides... unconditional one makes more sense than unconditional warmth. The song isn't about how she treated her son or anyone... it's about her faith. Her faith is unwaivering... it's unconditional. She's the unconditional one with regards to her faith, the point of the song.
the point of the song is immaterial. the verse in question is all about what she means to him. "you were my witness, my eyes, my evidence" which i take to mean his evidence that people are capable of being decent and good. the unconditional warmth she showed him, even though he didn't believe the same things she did, serve as an example that (in his estimations) all christians should look up to.

"i am the light and the way" is one of the things jesus said.. maynard applies it to his mother because she is *truly* "christ-like" (that's what christian means)

JShaney
05-03-2006, 04:11 PM
I agree bog
not with the warmth thing, I have no idea there could be either but Im inclined to think it is one...."unconditionaly one" serves the same purpose nonetheless.

unfnknblvbl
05-04-2006, 04:45 AM
I don't hear "warmth" either - if I really struggle, I can hear "warn" or "warm" - but no closing "th" sound..