LSD and Lost Keys

[GibbsFreeEnergy]

I believe this song has something to do with a patient of a doctor who will not respond to stimuli because of LSD consumption. From my studies in pre-pharmacy I remember reading lots of literature pointing out that it was quite miraculous how psychoactive LSD is considering that it has no noticeable physical effects on the body. Essentially, one under the influence of LSD has normal physiological function. They may have bouts of intense breathing and bodily twitching due to the intensity of the drug, but these are not correlated with the physiology of the substance. This is probably correct but I am open for argument because it's been a while! I'm essentially attaching this to the fact that the nurse says she can't find the problem with him, vital signs are normal, they don't know how ended up there... etcetera.

As others have also mentioned, Albert Hoffman was the chemist who first synthesized lysergic acid diethylamide back in 1938 or so. He put it on the shelf for a few years before becoming accidentally exposed to it later in his studies. The reason the chemical name has the "25" tag as in LSD-25 is because it was his 25th synthesized lysergide deriviative. This is according to Hoffman's book/autobiography "LSD: My Problem Child". Peace,
Mike

[phatfela1]

you are absolutely right

[tbrent21]

Very interesting. We do hear some heavy breathing from the patient in "Lost Keys", do we not?

[Fit4Demolition]

yeah LSD is only in your system for around 20 minutes so there is usually no trace of it. what it does is set off a system of reactions in your brain causing halluciantions and such. haha i actually learned that on CSI: last night, i watch that show way too much

[Jambiintension]

Actually when LSD is taken depending on the doses...It can stay in the system from any where form 8 hours to 14 hours.

[Inner_Eulogy]

I believe this song has something to do with a patient of a doctor who will not respond to stimuli because of LSD consumption. From my studies in pre-pharmacy I remember reading lots of literature pointing out that it was quite miraculous how psychoactive LSD is considering that it has no noticeable physical effects on the body. Essentially, one under the influence of LSD has normal physiological function. They may have bouts of intense breathing and bodily twitching due to the intensity of the drug, but these are not correlated with the physiology of the substance. This is probably correct but I am open for argument because it's been a while! I'm essentially attaching this to the fact that the nurse says she can't find the problem with him, vital signs are normal, they don't know how ended up there... etcetera.

As others have also mentioned, Albert Hoffman was the chemist who first synthesized lysergic acid diethylamide back in 1938 or so. He put it on the shelf for a few years before becoming accidentally exposed to it later in his studies. The reason the chemical name has the "25" tag as in LSD-25 is because it was his 25th synthesized lysergide deriviative. This is according to Hoffman's book/autobiography "LSD: My Problem Child". Peace,
Mike

From my knowledge, the only physical obvious sign would be the pupil's dialate quite large when under the influence of LSD.

[trickma]

Of course it is LSD, i knew this the moment i saw the tracklisting for the first time.

You can't get anymore obvious then "Blame hoffman" hoffman is the father of LSD.

[toocooltool]

LSD? I thought this song was about the awful state of US health services...

[haloocyn]

first of all the name is hofmann...

but what is he to blame for? for inventing the lsd? it is not his fault that somebody is taking the drug or not... that are our own choices...

and what if the guy is really taken by aliens and ended up in hospital with a mental trauma... then the most obvious reason for doctors would be that he took some lsd or sthg...

maybe 'blame hofmann' for the wrong diagnose? because patient didnt take any drugs... blame the guy for making doctor think it is the lsd...?

[whitewater]

first of all the name is hofmann...

but what is he to blame for? for inventing the lsd? it is not his fault that somebody is taking the drug or not... that are our own choices...

and what if the guy is really taken by aliens and ended up in hospital with a mental trauma... then the most obvious reason for doctors would be that he took some lsd or sthg...

maybe 'blame hofmann' for the wrong diagnose? because patient didnt take any drugs... blame the guy for making doctor think it is the lsd...?

Yeah, except he did drop some acid:

"The blotter got right on top of me,
Got me seein' E mother fuckin' T"

[haloocyn]

is the blotter a lsd?

[phaedrus9779]

is the blotter a lsd?

Blotter is the LSD medium. Its a little square of paper soaked in LSD. There are also "window panes" which are gel form and LSD in liquid form.

[haloocyn]

excuse me then, im an idiot...

[Lysander]

We don't hear "heavy" breathing--rather, we hear abrupt, staterous, staccato breathing. Which is even more telling that the song is LSD related. RE: the pupils, if they were to dilate, one would think that that would be especially noticeable under the florescence of a hospital with nurses and doctors staring down at you. I wouldn't ordinarily bring this up and just call it suspension of disbelief, but the song makes mention of it so it's fair game: how did someone tripping on LSD manage to sign himself into a hospital without even giving a name? Oh, and despite what i flippantly mentioned in another thread, I think it's somewhat obviosu that it's NOT the EMERGENCY room, as the nurse says either "room three" or "exam three", can't remember which, indicating that his case was not deemed critical by the doctors as being worth emergency treatment--which makes sense if the vitals were stable, but that raises the question of wouldn't trained doctors/nurses be able to recognize the signs of a drug overdose?

[swampyfool]

LSD? I thought this song was about the awful state of US health services...
<rimshot>

[swampyfool]

I wouldn't ordinarily bring this up and just call it suspension of disbelief, but the song makes mention of it so it's fair game: how did someone tripping on LSD manage to sign himself into a hospital without even giving a name? Oh, and despite what i flippantly mentioned in another thread, I think it's somewhat obviosu that it's NOT the EMERGENCY room, as the nurse says either "room three" or "exam three", can't remember which, indicating that his case was not deemed critical by the doctors as being worth emergency treatment--which makes sense if the vitals were stable, but that raises the question of wouldn't trained doctors/nurses be able to recognize the signs of a drug overdose?

I don't know, man. The lyrics don't specify that he signed himself in. They say that he has no ID, and they imply that there is nobody with him in the reception area; but they do not rule out the possibility that his friends just dropped him off and left; or that he just walked into the ER without saying anything. I mean, if I were working the sign-in area of an ER, and somebody just walked in and sat down without approaching me, I would ask that person if they needed help. If that person then would not answer me, I would try to escort him into the examination area, with the idea that this guy is in some kind of shock and in need of medical attention. So it doesn't seem- to me, anyway- that any suspension of belief is necessary for the real-life execution of this scenario.

Also, every emergency room that I've ever been in has multiple rooms in it, and sometimes they have been refered to as examination rooms. So "room/exam 3" doesn't really rule out the possibility of the ER. Also, doctors don't send you to the ER after deciding that your condition warrants it- if you walk into the ER, they'll treat you (provided your insurance is valid); if you don't have an emergency condition they might make you wait, but they're happy to overcharge you for rudimentary service.

Finally, I am minded of the Princess Bride every time I read an account of these lyrics that categorizes the experience as an LSD "overdose." In the words of the inimitable Inigo Montoya, "That word- I do not think it means what you think it means . . ." A person who has succumbed to the effects of LSD may exhibit dissociative characteristics without having overdosed. Sometimes you're just too busy thinking (at a million miles per second in unknown languages that make perfect sense for the time being) to even make an attempt at cogitating thought into words. If we're talking about an LSD overdose, I think we're talking about somebody who is gone and is not coming back. Even then, my experience tells me that the straw that breaks the camel's back is an issue of mindset rather than of too much LSD.

[Lysander]

If the guy is checking himself into a hospital, I think it's safe to say that he, at least, thinks he's overdosed.

[jim39n]

an overdose of lsd would be a very difficult feat to achieve

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_dose.shtml

[Lysander]

Well, then, why is he at a hospital, in the first place?

[swampyfool]

Well, then, why is he at a hospital, in the first place?
Who knows? We don't even know how he got there. If I thought that I wasn't coming back, I might go to a hospital. Or, if I was far enough gone, I might just walk in and sit down (but I'd have to be pretty dissociative to not realize that I was in a hospital). Remember, this guy is probably questioning his own sanity after such a powerful moment. I think that this is very well conveyed in Rosetta Stoned by his empassioned and desparate cries of, "You believe me, don't you? Please believe what I just said!" The "please" indicates to me that he is afraid that the implications of nobody believing him are that he is nuts. I reiterate, if I were on the tail-end of an acid trip and I thought (rightly or wrongly) that I had lost my keys, I just might wander into a hospital.

[NawnimNonNomen]

We don't hear "heavy" breathing--rather, we hear abrupt, staterous, staccato breathing. Which is even more telling that the song is LSD related. RE: the pupils, if they were to dilate, one would think that that would be especially noticeable under the florescence of a hospital with nurses and doctors staring down at you. I wouldn't ordinarily bring this up and just call it suspension of disbelief, but the song makes mention of it so it's fair game: how did someone tripping on LSD manage to sign himself into a hospital without even giving a name? Oh, and despite what i flippantly mentioned in another thread, I think it's somewhat obviosu that it's NOT the EMERGENCY room, as the nurse says either "room three" or "exam three", can't remember which, indicating that his case was not deemed critical by the doctors as being worth emergency treatment--which makes sense if the vitals were stable, but that raises the question of wouldn't trained doctors/nurses be able to recognize the signs of a drug overdose?

Re: "how did someone tripping on LSD manage to sign himself into a hospital without even giving a name?" He could have just stumbled in: from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lsd, "There is also some indication that LSD may trigger a dissociative fugue state in individuals who are taking certain classes of antidepressants such as lithium salts and tricyclics. In such a state, the user has an impulse to wander, and may not be aware of his or her actions." Granted, that mentions wandering as a result of stacking, but I'm sure some people have gone wandering without stacking, and there's always the possibility that the drug was adulterated.

He also could have been dumped by friends. That was the norm long ago: from http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/lsd07.htm, "When an LSD user and the people around him panicked, the user was sometimes rushed to the emergency room of a nearby hospital; indeed, most of the accounts of adverse LSD effects during the 1960s came from these emergency rooms, where personnel in those days were usually quite inexperienced." And on a pretty regular basis nowadays, frat groups "dump" alcohol-poisoned buddies on the ER's porch, without signing them in or anything; it's a common enough practice that freshmen orientations on a lot of college campuses actually include an admonishment against it.

Either way, once he got into the ER, the staff would move to treat him, and they'd probably move faster just because he's unresponsive. Since they can't figure out what's wrong, they don't know how to prioritize him: a broken ankle could probably wait, but an unresponsive patient may have suffered a mini-stroke or something and be in more immediate danger. Add to that the fact that it seems like a slow morning in the ER--hardly any background chatter--and he'd probably receive very prompt treatment.

Re: "Wouldn't trained doctors/nurses be able to recognize the signs of a drug overdose?" If you look at the protocols in emergency rooms, you'll see how typical such a situation as that in Lost Keys actually is. Most diagnosis comes about as a result of clinical examination and medical history. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_history) In the case of an unresponsive patient, there'd obviously be huge gaps in the medical history ("Hmm, not much here, is there?" ". . . he won't speak to anybody")--no "chief complaint," no responses to "systematic questioning"--and where the patient had no ID, there'd be no way of seeing whether he had a history of say, epilepsy. So the nurse tried her questions, took her vitals*--pulse, pressure, temperature, etc, and got no helpful information, then went to get a doctor's help. This is pretty normal for ER protocol in the US at least, though I don't know about Australia (See http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=51145)--nurses don't even diagnose as a general rule, just collect information and carry out medical instructions.

When he arrives in the patient's room, the doctor actually seems to assess the actual problem pretty quickly, or at least the general idea that the patient is having a bad trip. He immediately starts talking him down: " Look son, you're in a safe place, we want to help you, in whatever way we can. But you need to talk to us, we can't help you otherwise." That he says he can't help unless the patient talks is probably more about having to know just what drug is involved, since a lot of different drugs can induce dissociative fugue states.

*"Physical reactions to LSD are highly variable and may include the following: uterine contractions, hyperthermia (body temperature increase), elevated blood sugar levels, dry-mouth, goose bumps, heart-rate increase, jaw clenching, nausea, perspiration, pupil-dilation, salivation, mucus production, sleeplessness and tremors." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lsd Emphasize the "highly variable," and it seems likely that a patient could present none of these symptoms, or symptoms like dry-mouth, nausea or sleeplessness that would require self-reporting. Then, too, the "trip" in Rosetta Stoned began "at 2 am," and the doctor in Lost Keys says, "Good morning," so there's a chance the peak physical effects have passed without the psychological effects passing.
*******
Summary: There's a good deal of verisimmilitude in the account, which I hope aids in future SoD.

[Lysander]

I officially declare this thread the only one worth reading in this section. Holy shit, that post was great.

[Typical]

an overdose of lsd would be a very difficult feat to achieve

a lethal overdoes yes. but taking WAAAAY too much acid and thinking you get abducted by aliens who tell you how the world is going to end isn't. well, i dunno about the whole alien story but tripping your balls off to the point where you literally don't know what reality is isn't that far fetched.

[Lysander]

Indeed; the thing that makes LSD so powerful is that the halucinations are triggered inside your brain at the same receptors in the same fashion as your senses are triggered at. You know how in a dream you feel like you're looking around and hearing and touching things even though your real body is not moving, seing and hearing nothing, and is in fact lying on a completely different angle (lying down VS. upright and walking around)? it's the same kind of thing with an acid trip--your brain literally cannot tell the difference.

[blood_wh0re]

REPLY TO THE ORIGINAL POST...


EVERYTHING THAT YOU BELIEVE ABOUT LSD IS WRONG.

[Lysander]

That was a really useful post, why don't you try fixing the incorrect assurtions with proper facts rather than just throwing out blanket statements? Might it possibly be because you can't?

[koobcam]

I have never done anything ever than pot once and alcohol a fair few times. I am interested in LSD. I know sure as hell my girlfriend wouldnt approve, I dont know how to get it and I dont know if I would trust the quality of it, or if I would end up jumping in front of a car or trying to cut out my own heart or something....

[bellamadia]

I have never done anything ever than pot once and alcohol a fair few times. I am interested in LSD. I know sure as hell my girlfriend wouldnt approve, I dont know how to get it and I dont know if I would trust the quality of it, or if I would end up jumping in front of a car or trying to cut out my own heart or something....

Yikes my friend, ummm based on what you wrote above, I would NOT try it at this time. Go to drug advice thread, a lot of people posted shit on there that I think you need to see.

[Shpongleyes]

yeah, koob. i agree with bella..... lsd can be quite strong, if you haven't experienced anything psychedelic before. go to erowid.org and read up on some of the accounts, etc. if you ARE going to try it be sure to have some friends with you, and of course the old adage: "set and setting." Meaning: this trip will last quite awhile, and you have to be prepared to be off your game for AT LEAST 5 hours, and more than likely longer than that so make sure you are in a comfortable place and a place you will not have to leave for quite awhile. but, honestly, I would suggest staying away from it overall... from your post, i gather you are quite inexperienced and it might not be the best idea, ESPECIALLY if you are under the threat of someone "finding out." one reason i like lsd is the fact that it can be virtually undetectable by someone around you unless you are acting strange (which can be very likely), but if you are nervous of someone being aware of what you are doing, you will probably just put yourself in a paranoid state that when sober you would think is silly, but when tripping could be very bad. you might NEED to leave the area, drive away, etc, and that is NOT a good idea. definitely read up on it before you get even close to trying it.


on topic: I agree with NawnimNonNomen to almost the letter. i came into this thread to find out who Hofmann was, and i believe i have found a relatively suitable answer (in that post as well as others)... but given TOOL's ability to obscure meanings, i can't say i'm completely finished in this forum.... ;)

[Shpongleyes]

ok, i hadn't noticed this thread (the one bella was referring to......)

http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=45696

worth checking out.

[jonboy]

If you havn't read My Problem Child, do so. It is available online if you look.