main riff is 9/8

[LeMarchand]

Thought you'd like to know.

[champion]

It's easy to count when Danny comes in with a straight 9/8 beat on the hi-hat, bass, and snare in the second verse.

[black_rose]

how the fuck do you count that?

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9. I think they teach you past that at school but it was a long time ago. If i think about it hard i'll post tommorow and see if i can count to 20

[black_rose]

i'm asking how you figure it out just from listening to it, n00b.

Yeah sorry i'm english i can't help it. Seriously though just tap along to it, you should count 9 or taps. i've not heard too much that adds up to 9 though only other song i can think of is question by sytem of a down thats in 9/16. Oh and the first bar of the main riff in Lateralus is 9/8 ( the chorus riff )

Could have tried a bit harder than n00b as well you can't count to 9?

[dracomordag]

you should feel a stress every few beats, where a phrase will repeat itself. between these stress points (called down beats), you can count smaller stresses, called "beats" count how many beats there are in between every downbeat, and you should be set.

[138148]

counting time signatures is something i doubt i will ever be able to do. it just makes no sense to me.

Anybody can do it. It just takes practice. Tool is certainly not the band to start practicing with since they change time signature so often, but if you want to count out the very first part of Jambi, you should be able to count 123-12-12-12 along with the accents of drums.

[Echo Flanger]

I noticed that also immediately. Die Eier Von Satan uses also this time signature. And Soundgarden used it quite a lot.

[Stev]

I'm dubious about time-signatures like this.

I mean, I don't doubt you can count it out like that, but once you get outside the standards like 4/4, 2/4, 3/4 and 6/8 (personally I include 5/4 in this - but only just) then I say it's 'un-time-signaturable'.

It's just a way of trying to explain something that can't really be explained. For example, you could say 9/8 or you could say a bar of 3/4 at double speed followed by two and a half bars of 6/8.

I dunno, I'm not saying y'all are wrong - it's just the way I look at things. You have your standard time signatures and outside of that it's just not worth trying to explain or count it.

My $0.02

[Oberon]

count it as four and a half.

1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 1.


5 has no "and". Or 4 has two ands.

[F!end]

count it as four and a half.

1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 1.


5 has no "and". Or 4 has two ands.


I couldn't have said it better.

[sundryan]

Pick a section of the song. Listen for a riff or melody that repeats. Tap your (insert body part) to the beat of the music. Make a note how many taps you make before the riff/melody repeats.

Viola. 9/8

[Systolic]

Just count it in segments of 3 and you'll see what he means.. Its not that hard or complex.

[Oberon]

Just count it in segments of 3 and you'll see what he means.. Its not that hard or complex.

this song is not subdivded that way.


edit: it is sometimes, but not most of the time.

[sundryan]

Listening to it now, we have (at least at the beginning)

1-2-3 1-2 1-2 1-2 (or of course)
1-2-3 4-5 6-7 8-9

When the verses are being sung I don't think there's any easy way to neatly subdivide it. You just have to be brave and count!

[LeMarchand]

I'm dubious about time-signatures like this.

I mean, I don't doubt you can count it out like that, but once you get outside the standards like 4/4, 2/4, 3/4 and 6/8 (personally I include 5/4 in this - but only just) then I say it's 'un-time-signaturable'.

That's the most unmusical thing I've ever heard in this context.

[Stev]

How so?

What I'm saying is time signatures only really matter if you're scoring, which I very much doubt Tool are doing. What matters is how it sounds, not what time signature it's in.

[Oberon]

How so?

What I'm saying is time signatures only really matter if you're scoring, which I very much doubt Tool are doing. What matters is how it sounds, not what time signature it's in.


I've said it else where and i'll say it again here:


Its much easier to play in odd meters if you know what odd meter you're playing in... especially when it comes to improvising over it / coming up with ideas.

[Oberon]

Gah! 9/8 isn't even an odd meter! Its a compound triple meter!

[LeMarchand]

How so?

What I'm saying is time signatures only really matter if you're scoring, which I very much doubt Tool are doing. What matters is how it sounds, not what time signature it's in.

The time signature is important. Once you understand that rhythmical qualities in this kind of music are derived from the time signature, then you can make some claims about it.

[5th Eye]

9/8 indeed. And the solo is 6/8. That riff kicks a lot of ass.

[KlepTIK]

counting time signatures is something i doubt i will ever be able to do. it just makes no sense to me.


Same here. Are there any sites that list all the time signatures for all of Tools music?

[imatoolhed]

Is this song in drop D or B ? just sounds to deep to be D.

got tabs ?

[Oberon]

Same here. Are there any sites that list all the time signatures for all of Tools music?



most tabs will. If you have a question about specifc tool song, pm me!

[Oberon]

what time is right in two in? i count 3 sets of 3, then 1 set of 2.


Thats right. 11.

[chalk_line]

11 yep, or 3 bars of 3/4 and one of 2/4

[Oberon]

so 11/8?


it could be written a million different ways. i'd say 11/8 though.

[transcend187]

11 yep, or 3 bars of 3/4 and one of 2/4


so 11/8?

it could be written a million different ways. i'd say 11/8 though.


If its 3x 3/4 + 2/4 (which I think it is, judging by the hi-hat beats later in the song), then the song is in 11/4, not 11/8. Danny is hitting the hi-hat 22 times per bar. The hi-hat will usually play the 8th notes, so if one beat takes two strikes of the hi-hat then it's in x/4.

x/8 means one beat is an 8th note. x/4 means one beat is a quarter note. In some respects its a matter of semantics, but it actually matters quite a bit both for people trying to jam, and for getting the character of the song.

[Oberon]

If its 3x 3/4 + 2/4 (which I think it is, judging by the hi-hat beats later in the song), then the song is in 11/4, not 11/8. Danny is hitting the hi-hat 22 times per bar. The hi-hat will usually play the 8th notes, so if one beat takes two strikes of the hi-hat then it's in x/4.

x/8 means one beat is an 8th note. x/4 means one beat is a quarter note. In some respects its a matter of semantics, but it actually matters quite a bit both for people trying to jam, and for getting the character of the song.


the reason i say 11/8 is that "8" is used more for compound meters, and this feels like a compound meter, like a slow "12" missing a beat. It REALLY IS all relative though. Seriously. there's no way of telling an eighth note from a quarter note.

[transcend187]

Yes, that's true... and he could be playing 16th notes on the 'hat. But in any case, its 11 beats in a bar, regardless of what's getting the beat.

When I talk about time signatures in rock songs, I usually just say the first number anyway.

"It's in 5." "It's in 7." "It's in 9." "It's in....YOUR MOM."

Fuck, I'm immature.

[camara22]

If you wanted to be anal about it, technically Jambi's intro is 3/8 then 3/4 because the pulses switch from a compound single to a simple triple, where normally 9/8 is played as a compound triple.
But I'd tell them to stop and just call it a complex quadruple 9/8. Though 9/8 is normally compound, you can change it up in any way.
Oberon is entirely right about Right In Two. It feels like a compound meter, and that's normally what seperates /8 from /4. (See 8/8's 1 uh let 2 uh let 3 and vs. 4/4's 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and). Count it as whatever feels right, though, but I'd say a complex quadruple 11/8 is correct.

[magdalena.]

I wish i could count Tool songs, like that stupid Schism. :(

[Max T.]

if you can't figure it out, you're probably counting a quarter note feel. you'll count to four and the next measure will come in on the "and" of four.

when this happens with any song, you know now that you are to count the beats twice as fast as you did originally, so for every "quarter-note" you think it is, count in eighth notes, but instead of counting it as "1+ 2+" etc, count it as just "1 2 3 4" in the same speed. that probably won't make sense to you if you don't know how to count this song, but try. if the time were 9/4 (quarter note gets the beat obviously), then the quarter note feel you are thinking of would be correct, but the 9/8 signals that you basically count nine eighth notes for each measure.

: )

[STA]

I don't understand. Was there ever any doubt about this?

[Max T.]

How so?

What I'm saying is time signatures only really matter if you're scoring, which I very much doubt Tool are doing. What matters is how it sounds, not what time signature it's in.

well, if you compose an entire song based on just how it sounds (to you), most likely no one will keep it consistent. It is very important to have awareness and to acknowledge the time signature, otherwise you won't be able to feel the song properly. However, once you are acclimated to the certain time sig, you can start to just "feel" the time naturally without actually counting in your head, as I'm sure this is the case with Tool. No one would make a 9/8 song if all the musicians are frantically counting to 9 throughout so they don't get off with the rest. Like said below, when improvising or the like, it will really F you over if you don't have a grasp of the time signature.

[Max T.]

I don't understand. Was there ever any doubt about this?

hah no, but some people didn't understand how to count it.