Narrator as Sultan of Jambi?

[rocco]

Bit this off Wikipedia (thanks to someone in here for the link):

"They coerced Sultan Facharudin to agree to greater Dutch presence in the region and control over trade, although the sultanate remained nominally independent. In 1858 the Dutch, apparently concerned over the risk of competition for control from other foreign powers, invaded Jambi with a force from Batavia. They met little resistance, and Sultan Taha fled to the upriver, inland regions of Jambi. The Dutch installed a puppet ruler, Nazarudin, in the lower region, which included the capital city. For the next forty years Taha maintained the upriver kingdom, and slowly reextended his influence over the lower regions through political agreements and marriage connections. In 1904, however, the Dutch were stronger and, as a part of a larger campaign to consolidate control over the entire archipelago, soldiers finally managed to capture and kill Taha, and in 1906, the entire area was brought under direct colonial management."

Think it could be the sultan talking to his sultanate Jambi?

Eh. Maybe not.

[communication]

I believe he's talking from himself. he uses the word LIKE a sultan. its not literal.

when he sings "tempted the devil with my song. and got what i wanted all along."
sounds alot like he himself is saying it. along with the tender message that he'd give it all away for one more day with a certain someone.

then again. I have no idea what jambi refers to in this song.

[bugchaser]

pee wee herman

[Dispatch]

from what I've heard the Indonesian province of Jambi is one of the most beautiful places on earth. Perhaps the title refers to being willing to sacrifice paradise.

on a side note it's also a hotbed of terrorist activity in the region. they call it the "terrorist's playground"

[Warartist]

from what I've heard the Indonesian province of Jambi is one of the most beautiful places on earth. Perhaps the title refers to being willing to sacrifice paradise.

on a side note it's also a hotbed of terrorist activity in the region. they call it the "terrorist's playground"

i agree with all of you cept pee wee up there who for some reason can see a conection more to pee wees play house than indonesia, pleeeeeeze some one set this guy strait the jambi genie theory is just shamful. i posted a couple links to this in another thread and he disagreed there also. i really hope your kidding bugmuncher.
mandy
also with maynards ties to budism it fits well.

[bogsnarth]

that was me who disagreed in the other thread, and i still do. this song does not contain any lines referring to "jambi" and if it DID, it wouldn't be pronounced "JAMM BYE" as heard in the song, it would be "JOM BEE" because nobody in any language anywhere would pronounce "jambi" as "jamm bye" unless it was the official language of retardation.

also, what ties to buddhism?

[mmortal03]

yeah, it is "jom-bee" ... see here: http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=jambi

[Warartist]

that was me who disagreed in the other thread, and i still do. this song does not contain any lines referring to "jambi" and if it DID, it wouldn't be pronounced "JAMM BYE" as heard in the song, it would be "JOM BEE" because nobody in any language anywhere would pronounce "jambi" as "jamm bye" unless it was the official language of retardation.

also, what ties to buddhism?

sorrrrryyyy bogsnarth,

i just didnt realize there were two of you acting like fool's i cant belive i didnt

remember the name. well fyi bogs, i think you'll find when the official lyrics are

released it doesnt say jambi IN the song, but thats just my geuss like pee wee's

just yours. and heres some more fyi i dont think its pronounced JAMMBYE it IS

JOMBEE thats how i would think to pronounce jambi. you know, the A makes an

AH cause there is no E and the I makes an E cause there is no E to make it make

an I . oh yea, ties to buddhism, well thats also just my educated guess and

i would

tell you to maybe look into the shiza then read some tool lyrics, maybe from

lateralis, then go look at some tool artwork i think you'll notice some mandalas

and maybe you'll see some paintings referancing the chakra zones, or maybe

you'll blindly ignore that aswell.

mandy

[bogsnarth]

mandalas are not just a buddhist thing.. and although its origins are in india, it's not just an eastern thing either.. many schools of the occult use mandalas as well.. as for the "chakra zones" i assume you're referring to the tree of life, which is from cabala. it does correlate to the chakras of various yogic traditions, though..

why are you explaining how to pronounce "Jambi" to the guy who just explained how to pronounce it? i'm only going into specifics about that to show people that there's no way he says "jambi eyes" in the song, it has nothing to do with what i think the title is a reference to. to reiterate: there is nothing that we've seen *so far* in the history or myths of the indonesian city of Jambi that would tie it to this song.. the fact that there was a paragraph on wiki about a sultan does not count, since it was in no way linked to the lyrics of the song.

i don't know why you think i'm "blindly ignoring" things here.. i'm examining the context of the lyrics rationally and trying to make connections.. and by that rational process i see no reason to connect this song with that place, but i do see at least one reason to link this song to the genie from pee-wee's playhouse..

to wit: 1) maynard lyrics have usually (always?) focused on *will*,, taking responsibility for one's actions etc.. so for a song about *wishing* (the opposite of willing, basically) it makes sense that he would make a self-mocking reference to a ridiculous genie from a ridiculous kid's show..

2) tool have always used clever jokes and humor in their music and song titles.. e.g.: intermission (taken straight from a monty python movie), die eier von satan (a recipe for hash confections in the guise of a nazi rant), aenema (enema being a method of flushing one's bowels), the gaping lotus experience (hindu/buddhist/"eastern" imagery combined with vagina reference used as the title to a song about people on drugs peeing on lighters and humping chair cushsions), 4 degrees (the temperature difference between the vagina and the asshole.. in a song about learning to trust and open up and discover "treasures locked up inside you".. so don't try to say they never use humor in "deep" or "meaningful" songs), ET CETERA.

QED, IPSO FACTO, POST HOC ERGO PROPTER HOC, LATIN AD INFINITUM.

[Warartist]

first of all, i am not saying that maynard or anyone else in the band is buddhist. i am simply stating that some of the shit they sing about fits verry well with alot of buddhist views on life and spirituality. as for wether he is or is not buddhist, how the fuck should i know. i'm saying because of this, and some tool/alex grey art work is the reason i get more of a connection from a place in indonesia the pee wee herman. maynard was'nt even a kid anymore when that show was on and i think it stopped airing befor 95 when his son was born. and i never denied that maynard was a joker, i just dont think this tittle is suppose to be a joke. on this occasion i just think your wrong, but again thats just my opinion.
as for the correction on jambi i must have misunderstood you i thought i read that you thought he said it in the song since you did say somthing like "as heared in the song" but i do appologize for that, if you did not.

mandy

[bogsnarth]

when i said "as heard in the song" i was talking about the line that is under dispute, which i think is "damn my eyes" and which others think is "dim my eyes" or "jambi eyes".

just because the show ended before his son was born doesn't really matter imo.. and i don't know if you ever watched pee-wee's playhouse but it wasn't *just* for kids.. there was a lot of humor for the parents too, and it was really popular amongst stoners of the time. so i can definitely see him or other members of the band getting high and digging on the colors and the silliness. all that said, i don't think the title is necessarily a joke either, just like (most of) those other titles i listed aren't "jokes" per se, they just make humorous references..

i didn't make any comments about whether or not anyone in the band is a buddhist, so i don't even know where that came from.. i was just saying mandalas are not always necessarily tied to buddhism.

from what i've read about that Jambi place, it was primarily muslim, so once again i fail to see the connection to buddhism.

you don't need to explain that something is "just your opinion".. it's a given on a board like this.. and do us both a favor and drop the hostility, please.

[Warartist]

i didn't make any comments about whether or not anyone in the band is a buddhist, so i don't even know where that came from.. i was just saying mandalas are not always necessarily tied to buddhism.

from what i've read about that Jambi place, it was primarily muslim, so once again i fail to see the connection to buddhism.



where that came from was you asking what ties to buddhism i was speaking of.
i wanted you to know i wasnt saying they are buddhist, but that the fasination with buddhism, also hinduism( tho there are other religions they talk about as well) is pretty apparent to me anyways, for example the flower, not the tree of life shows up in alot of tool art as well as vidios, the names of some of their songs like merkaba, witch is hindu meaning a word repeated in meditation that represents a sacred sound used to talk to god. lateralis i think maybe talking about the golden mean spiral. chakras are spiritual energy centers in the body the third eye is the pineal gland chakra and is a buddhist term.
anyways there is also refferance to taoism & sacred geometry but you can look into all that yourself im sure you'll see the conection.

as for you not having found any conection to the place jambi and buddhism in what you've read then you did not read the second link i put up in the official lyrics thread right under the first. if you had you would have seen that the last line in the verry first paragraph on the page said-
"these earliest records of jambi show it to have been the original capital of melayu (malaya kingdom) the anchiant hindu-buddhist kingdom of sriwijaya also had its capital in jambi at about this time"

sorry for the hostility, i was only trying to get my point across. i did'nt think it would bother you so much, since in some of your own post you fairly freely dish it out.

here that link if you want to read it this time.

http://www.jambiexplorer.com/content/History.htm

[bogsnarth]

i never try to be seriously hostile.. sometimes my sense of humor (which can be quite acerbic at times) comes across that way, but really i don't. it doesn't really bother me, i just think it's unnecessary in a civil discussion. ;)

you're right, i didn't read that link.. my apologies. but i still don't see the connection with the song jambi and the place jambi.

[A Tad Bit Catatonic]

After listening to the song over 500 times, I am about 99% sure he says "Damn my eyes" twice, then "Dim my eyes" once. It makes very good sense with what he's talking about. And if he were to say "JAM - BYE", that would be pretty ridiculous comparably. I too thought it was possible for a while, but give it a couple hundred more listens. Anyway just my opinion, and I do like this theory presented here. And anyone who thinks this is about PeeWee's playhouse, well I don't even have to say anything else =). Either way, the song is Tool at its best - great damn song...

[Warartist]

i never try to be seriously hostile.. sometimes my sense of humor (which can be quite acerbic at times) comes across that way, but really i don't. it doesn't really bother me, i just think it's unnecessary in a civil discussion. ;)

you're right, i didn't read that link.. my apologies. but i still don't see the connection with the song jambi and the place jambi.

i apologize to, it is an opinion page and everyone is intitled to have one. i didnt meen to bash you, maybe your theory...a little:).. but i was just fucking around, being silly and having fun with it. truce?

mandy

[Warartist]

also i agree its damn my eyes. and i think TEMPTED the devil with my song i dont know what you think about that tho.

[communication]

its definately TEMPTED. I don't understand why people are hearing anything else

[CelestialRender]

The song's about a wish. Genies grant wishes. The Peewee reference is the obvious first meaning of the title. Whether the title ends up being a complicated pun or not is questionable, but it seems a bit silly to deny that obvious connection.

[rocco]

I always appreciate what I consider a 'cubist' approach to poetry/lyrics - you slice a word or a symbol into all of its many possibilities, and then portray them all together.

I hadn't given the Pee Wee thing much credence, but in such a scenario, he is indeed wishing a lot. There's a sultan reference as well, but that could be more of a nod than a wink.

Secondo me, it's always 'Damn my eyes'. Must he say it like a Brit to convince everybody it's not "Dim"?

[rocco]

Last thing about the sultan - maybe just a theme of exile from the promised land...

[bogsnarth]

i apologize to, it is an opinion page and everyone is intitled to have one. i didnt meen to bash you, maybe your theory...a little:).. but i was just fucking around, being silly and having fun with it. truce?

mandy
truce. :)

[Xariable]

To Mandy,
Indonesia a primarily Muslim nation. The term sultan doesn't refer to a Buddhist king or prince, rather a Muslim ruler. Buddhism doesn't bleed from this song. :o)
Peace

[Severed_Mind]

I think I remember somthing (Maybe from an African tale), although I could be wrong, about a "Jambi" being a Demon that grants wishes but at a great cost to the person wishing.

[bogsnarth]

Change your avatar. Now.
nope.

[Warartist]

To Mandy,
Indonesia a primarily Muslim nation. The term sultan doesn't refer to a Buddhist king or prince, rather a Muslim ruler. Buddhism doesn't bleed from this song. :o)
Peace

please understand i am not and never was saying that the song had anything to do with buddhism i absolutely agree there is noo bleeding of it from this song. the discussion bogsnarth and i were having was about what the tittle of the song could possibly meen. i just made more of a connection to my theory than his, and my argument did'nt have anything to do with the word sultan used in the song but with the word jambi, only used as the tittle. jambi the place does have buddhism in its history. i encourage you to read the whole discussion we had. but if you dont feel like doing that at least read the the 12th post down on this thread and the link i put there, that will better explian where im coming from.
mandy

[Warartist]

, die eier von satan (a recipe for hash confections in the guise of a nazi rant), aenema (enema being a method of flushing one's bowels), .

i always heard die eier von satan was a mexican wedding cookie recipe, and enema is cleaning out the poop shute, but anima is a latin word meaning soul maynard put the two together to make a new word meaning probably cleansing of the soul (but maybe it's suppose to be a satanic thing and he wants us to just shit our souls out and get rid of em all together)hehe... just kiddin:) bogsnarth im still holding to our truce i just could'nt resist, forgive me againg ok?

oh, also i think maynard has only gotten high a few times, but yea maybe one of the other members liked getting high and watching peewees playhouse. its possible.
i was'nt ever really into that show i was a kid when it was on, my boyfriend was in his teens tho he said he never watched it high, he also said pee wee was like the michael jackson of his generation. you know with the whole chokin the chicken in public thing.

mandy

[bogsnarth]

i don't consider civil discussion to be a breach of a truce :)

re: die eier von satan, it might very well be based on a mexican wedding cookie recipe, but there's a line that calls for "a knifetip of turkish hash" ("Eine Messerspitze türkisches Haschisch")..

re: enema/anima, i was aware of that connection.. and if i'm not mistaken, anima was a term Jung used to describe the feminine part of the male psyche ("animus" being the male counterpart in females) so i've always taken the album title, "aenima" to be a cleansing/purging of the spirit and/or a bringing out of "feminine" or dark/creative elements of the psyche, and the title of the song, "aenema" to be more of a direct, "flush the shit out" reference..

and yeah, i too remember when pee wee touched his wee wee.. it was a sad day indeed.

[Warartist]

yep. carl used it to describe the unconscious male psyche aswell.

i kinda though it was shity he got caught, and ridiculed for it, he was at an adult theatre right? im sure he was'nt the only one. i meen he was'nt at a park watching little boys or anything. oh well.
i really liked him in blow!.

[ktrip]

in Quechua, the native language of Ecuador, jambi translates to health.

[A Tad Bit Catatonic]

Wow you guys took it Jungian.

It's "damn my eyes, jam my eyes, dim my eyes" by the way, I'm now pretty convinced.

[xPOGOx]

on a side note it's also a hotbed of terrorist activity in the region. they call it the "terrorist's playground"
88% Muslim.

Not knocking anyone's religion...I'm just saying...