02 - Jambi lyrics

[Pårȃđīǥm]

After using an audio editor to slow the song down and strip the vocals from the rest of the music (so that nothing was left to intefere with the lyrics) I personally am convinced that the lyrics for this part are as follows:

Damn my eyes
Jam my eyes (there is a very clear 'j' sound if you listen closley enough but no 'b' sound so don't tell me he said Jambi eyes)
Dim my eyes (you can hear the different pronunciation clearly from the first line)
If they should compromise our fulcrum
Once your need divides me then I might as well be gone.

[Alex in Chains]

After using an audio editor to slow the song down and strip the vocals from the rest of the music (so that nothing was left to intefere with the lyrics) I personally am convinced that the lyrics for this part are as follows:

Damn my eyes
Jam my eyes (there is a very clear 'j' sound if you listen closley enough but no 'b' sound so don't tell me he said Jambi eyes)
Dim my eyes (you can hear the different pronunciation clearly from the first line)
If they should compromise our fulcrum
Once your need divides me then I might as well be gone.

Can you link to an audio file?

[44&4]

The biggest problem with the whole "damn/ jam" thing is that in english, both sounds are produced exactly the same way. Just say them out loud, and feel the differences. Also check out the word "education" How do you say it? EH JU KAY SHUN, not EH DU KAY SHUN. When yelling or otherwise emphasizing such words, it would be very easy to pronounce them either way, giving TOOL fans a whole bunch o' shite to waste bandwidth with.

[44&4]

Oh yeah, since I'm being phonetic and all, See you Auntie!

[Teratoma]

Dim my eyes
Jam-bi eyes
Dim my eyes


period. From all the live audio I've heard, and listening to it 50000000000000+ times, pretty sure it's just that. Which I figured out about the 2nd time I played it.

it's more EEHHH than AAAAHHH so DIIIIIM not DAAAAAMN

[Terry21]

The biggest problem with the whole "damn/ jam" thing is that in english, both sounds are produced exactly the same way.

Correct, but that's not a problem for me, that means it's something with D.

[BlanketEffect]

Considering Maynard changes what he sings from performance to performance depending on his mood, shouldn't the only one you use to determine 'the right' lyrics be the studio version?

I mean, so what if he clearly says "Shine on splendid pigfuckers" in a live version; that's not the 'official lyric' we're looking for. So live versions on questionable parts shouldn't be too heavily relied upon to determine what the album (and therefore, official) version has on it.

[Alex in Chains]

Anyone else hear "justify my milling away my center"?

Just checking.

[Terry21]

Considering Maynard changes what he sings from performance to performance depending on his mood, shouldn't the only one you use to determine 'the right' lyrics be the studio version?

I mean, so what if he clearly says "Shine on splendid pigfuckers" in a live version; that's not the 'official lyric' we're looking for. So live versions on questionable parts shouldn't be too heavily relied upon to determine what the album (and therefore, official) version has on it.

I can't fucking believe how often I have to explain this fucking live thing. And I won't now. I just won't. Can I call my brain a reliable source saying that I know from a realiable source that the eyes thing is the same live as on tape?

Oh and Alex, I'm pretty much sure it's "giving". He sings it live exactly that way, but maybe some people just think he sings "giving" on the record and it's coincidence that what he sings live is giving. Yeah, probably it's just coincidencence. (Winks at Blanket)

[BlanketEffect]

^ This isn't to sound like a cock or anything. Seriously.

I don't understand a thing you were trying to say, Terry. Sorry.

[fawks]

Anyone else hear "justify my milling away my center"?

Just checking.


Yeah, thats what i hear too, and it makes sense

[Alex in Chains]

Terry, I have to go with Blanket on this one. He's already changing lyrics live, as far as I can tell. During "The Pot," on the first "kangaroo" line, it sounds an awful lot like "juror" on the record, but at Street Scene he clearly said "jury."

And as for the eyes, it's "damn," dammit.

[Terry21]

Yes, I won't explain the live thing agan. He might change jury and juror but some stuff people say is making me wanna break stuff.

[Alex in Chains]

Yes, I won't explain the live thing agan. He might change jury and juror but some stuff people say is making me wanna break stuff.

I understand. I don't think he said "damn" in the studio and then decided to change it to "damp" and "dim" and "jam" live. But I still think it's "damn."

[BlanketEffect]

Oh, and on the 'damp' idea: Since we have established that other than for dramatic effect Maynard used the English language well and properly.

So it would be 'Dampen my eyes' and not 'Damp my eyes' - Damp is a descriptor, dampen is a verb.

And this is the creedance that I lend to it *not* being 'damp my eyes', not the definition or the interpretation - it's just bad grammer.

[swampyfool]

Anyone else hear "justify my milling away my center"?

Just checking.

I hear "kneeling." It makes sense in the theme of Provincial Jambi, as Sultan Taha was put in the position of deciding whether or not to swear fealty to the Dutch- an action which requires kneeling as a sign of submission. Given that ancestral homelands are often central to the spiritual beliefs of nations, swearing fealty to the Dutch could mean exactly that- "kneeling away my center . . . " Also, this could be another anti-Christian invective, as swearing fealty to European imperialists often includes acknowledging the truth of the god of Christianity.

[Terry21]

Oh, and on the 'damp' idea: Since we have established that other than for dramatic effect Maynard used the English language well and properly.

So it would be 'Dampen my eyes' and not 'Damp my eyes' - Damp is a descriptor, dampen is a verb.

And this is the creedance that I lend to it *not* being 'damp my eyes', not the definition or the interpretation - it's just bad grammer.

Funny - I've seen it several times that by correcting somebody else the word "grammer" is used.

It's grammar.

But for your thing, I've already said this several times:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn2425

[Alex in Chains]

I hear "kneeling."

I do hear that sometimes, too.

[BlanketEffect]

Funny - I've seen it several times that by correcting somebody else the word "grammer" is used.

It's grammar.

But for your thing, I've already said this several times:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn2425

Yeah, the other funny part is that grammar and spelling have nothing to do with one another, though they are often associated because of their role in written language. And the illustration was not that I used proper grammar/spelling (though I typically do) - it was that Maynard does.

I looked it up. 'Damp' has no verb definition - that's 'dampen'. The article you cited is simply using more bad grammar. "Damp my eyes" or "Damp forest fires" is incorrect grammar.

[Alex in Chains]

Terry -- I'm just checking here -- do you really think it's "damp," or are you just playing devil's advocate?

[Terry21]

No, I do not think it's damp. It's totally sarcastic because it's bloody fucking obvious that it's either dim or damn or JAMBI.

No I am fucking serious.

[ThreeDeviations]

a little input... regarding people's interpretations..

SHAFTED/TEMPTED/SHOUT TO the devil.

I personally think it sounds most like "Shafted".. though I haven't seen that submitted by anyone anywhere... but I don't believe Maynard would use that word.. so I doubt it's that. I can hear why people think "shout to the devil" as well... but unlikely as well... it's probably "tempted"..

the next line also sounds like .. . "and got what I wanted all ALONE."
though, all "along" would be the assumed word in context.


*probably the most significant detail/word people are mistaking is...

"tempted the devil with my SONG."

It's PSALM.

Tempted the devil with my PSALM.


no PROMISE YOU could hold, sway, or justify my... giving away my center.

can you hold a promise?

you're my peace of mind, my all, my Saturn

damn my eyes
jam my eyes
dim my eyes

5:38, SHINED on forever.. (not shine)


one key to figuring out meaning/intent in this song is getting all the tenses correct.

[swampyfool]

Meh.
*probably the most significant detail/word people are mistaking is...

"tempted the devil with my SONG."

It's PSALM.

Tempted the devil with my PSALM.

I think Maynard is neither equating nor would equate his works as Psalms. He is not making music in service to any God or ultimacy or what-have-you. He sold his soul to make a record, remember.

no PROMISE YOU could hold, sway, or justify my... giving away my center.

can you hold a promise?

I'm not generally a huge fan of phoenetics, but "PROMISE YOU" just doesn't fit in the space provided between "no" and "could." Furthermore, what does that even mean? I just don't think that is a complete thought.

Anyway, I hear pressure, and I think that the meaning is pertinent. No pressure could hold sway, or justify my kneeling away my center. No pressure can sway my strength of purpose, and that not-withstanding, neither could such justify my kneeling in a sympolic gesture of subservience when the price is my center. So if I could I'd wish it all away . . .

you're my peace of mind, my home, my Saturn

You're my peace of mind, my Ohm, my center.

Center versus Saturn is debateable, and I personally favor center while conceding the possibility that it could be Saturn. However, I am very swayed by the Indonesian theme of the song, and I really think that it's "Ohm" and not "home."

5:42, SHINED on forever.. (not shine)


one key to figuring out meaning/intent in this song is getting all the tenses correct.

But does the past tense, shined, agree with forever? Forever suggests without begining and without end, and thus, it seems to me that the past tense has no reference. When a condition is "forever," it would seem most appropriate to reference it in the present tense. No sale. Shine on forever.

[Steedus]

i wanted to point out i think he sings "Accepted the devil with my song and got what i wanted all along"
i can hear the 'acc' bit slightly before the "epted" bit and it certainly makes narrative sense don't it? accepted the devil and got what he wanted all along? my logic is undeniable people.
the interpretation of the sound itself might be off, but the lyric makes the most sense it ever has in this case.

[ThreeDeviations]

Meh.


I think Maynard is neither equating nor would equate his works as Psalms. He is not making music in service to any God or ultimacy or what-have-you. He sold his soul to make a record, remember.



I'm not generally a huge fan of phoenetics, but "PROMISE YOU" just doesn't fit in the space provided between "no" and "could." Furthermore, what does that even mean? I just don't think that is a complete thought.

Anyway, I hear pressure, and I think that the meaning is pertinent. No pressure could hold sway, or justify my kneeling away my center. No pressure can sway my strength of purpose, and that not-withstanding, neither could such justify my kneeling in a sympolic gesture of subservience when the price is my center. So if I could I'd wish it all away . . .



You're my peace of mind, my Ohm, my center.

Center versus Saturn is debateable, and I personally favor center while conceding the possibility that it could be Saturn. However, I am very swayed by the Indonesian theme of the song, and I really think that it's "Ohm" and not "home."



But does the past tense, shined, agree with forever? Forever suggests without begining and without end, and thus, it seems to me that the past tense has no reference. When a condition is "forever," it would seem most appropriate to reference it in the present tense. No sale. Shine on forever.

The lyric could be saying "shine down forever" instead of "shined on forever."
It is NOT "shine on forever" at 5:42. It's either "Shined on forever" or "Shine down forever."

Psalms makes sense... look it up if you need to.
It's not "song." You can hear the "psALM".

and since you want to be a dick ... like Maynard would refer to a Tool track as "my song."

But he likely would personalize a song referring to it as his Psalm. The meaning is HIS... the song itself, isn't. A Psalm can be defined as a sacred song. Sacred doesn't have to be synonomous with God or a God.

can't hear "promise you"? Oh well. He says it quickly.

It's certainly NOT "pressure" like you think it is. No "pressure" could hold, sway or justify my giving away my center. haha.



You ask how "promise" would even make sense.. or "what that even means?"

The song is about Maynard no longer being swayed by temptation / "the devil" in his life. Probably due the birth of his son who "changed this all for me... lifted me up turned me 'round."

So despite any "promises" made by the devil... there WILL BE NO MORE SELLING HIS SOUL TO MAKE A RECORD. He will no longer succumb to superficial "wants and needs" because he has a different appreciation and perspective for life now.. relative to the past.

So that's how "promise" makes sense... No promise you could hold... as in the devil HOLDING his promise that he'll get this and that.. material shit.. houses... cars.. women.. in exchange for his soul.... but he rejects that notion now... nothing could sway his feelings at this point... no promise the devil could possibly make would be enough to justify him trading what he has now.. which is benevolence, optimism, a son, peace of mind and hope... personally and for humanity.

"No promise you could hold, sway, or justify my giving away my center." That line is spoken to temptation's face... aka, the devil.

Shine on benevolent Sun. The Sun being a metaphor for a source of strength, kindness, perpetuity and warmth.. for human beings.

It's also not coincidental that exactly half way through the song, 3:44... "the 2nd half" of the song begins... different music, vibe and tone. Symbolic of the change he's made approximately half way through his life.

Silence leech and stay out of my way... which means he's no longer listening to the leech, aka, the devil... and stay out of my life.

[Terry21]

I'm 90% sure it's tempted. I thought it was something with s when he sang it live, but on another recording he definately sings tempted. And if somebody wants to say now that live he changes lyrics, my argument is, wouldn't it be a strange coincidence that what I definately hear live is from a guess made by hearing the studio version?

[swampyfool]

The lyric could be saying "shine down forever" instead of "shined on forever."
It is NOT "shine on forever" at 5:42. It's either "Shined on forever" or "Shine down forever."

. . .

Shine on benevolent Sun. The Sun being a metaphor for a source of strength, kindness, perpetuity and warmth.. in human beings.

OK. Way to ignore the point. You make this condescending statement about how understanding tenses is the key to understanding meaning, and then you suggest "shined on forever?" First of all, the only meaning for "shined" is the past tense for polishing something (shined my shoes, eg). When you convert "shine" (as in the way the sun shines- like in your explanation of the lyric) to the past tense, it becomes "shone," not "shined." So again, I dismiss your claim to having mastered verb tense. And since you see verb tense understanding going hand in hand with lyrical understanding, judged by your standard, you must not understand meaning very well at all.

As to your claim that it could be "shine down" the whole way through, I urge you to give another listen. The second half of these stanzas (if you will) says, "Shine down upon the (broken/severed), shine on 'til the two become one." At the beginning of this reccurring line, he says "shine down," and it sounds completely different from the beginning of the first half of the stanza. When he says "shine on," there is no "ow" sound in the second word, but when he says "shine down," there blatantly is such a sound there.

So, since "shined on forever" would imply that the speaker was having trouble removing tarnish form the silver, and "shine down forever" rules itself out phoenetically, it would seem that we're left with "Shine on forever."

Psalms makes sense... look it up if you need to.
It's not "song." You can hear the "psALM".

and since you want to be a dick ... like Maynard would refer to a Tool track as "my song."

But he likely would personalize a song referring to it as his Psalm. The meaning is HIS... the song itself, isn't. A Psalm can be defined as a sacred song. Sacred doesn't have to be synonomous with God or a God.

I suppose you have a bit of a point here, "psalm" doesn't have to refer to deity, but it is a word with certain historical context. The original Book of Psalms (the first use of the word, historically) was writen by King David of Israel (as legend has it) around three thousand years ago. Maynard is a well-read person (or so I infer), and probably knows if a word he learned in church so long ago has a religious connotation, and thus he probably wouldn't use it outside of such a context. So I guess the psalm/song thing comes down to inferred context. If these were Vegas odds, I'd have to say "Pick 'em."

can't hear "promise you"? Oh well. He says it quickly.

. . .

You ask how "promise" would even make sense.. or "what that even means?"

The song is about Maynard no longer being swayed by temptation / "the devil" in his life. Probably due the birth of his son who "changed this all for me... lifted me up turned me 'round."

So despite any "promises" made by the devil... there WILL BE NO MORE SELLING HIS SOUL TO MAKE A RECORD. He will no longer succumb to superficial "wants and needs" because he has a different appreciation and perspective for life now.. relative to the past.

So that's how "promise" makes sense... No promise you could hold... as in the devil HOLDING his promise that he'll get this and that.. material shit.. houses... cars.. women.. in exchange for his soul.... but he rejects that notion now... nothing could sway his feelings at this point... no promise the devil could possibly make would be enough to justify him trading what he has now.. which is benevolence, optimism, a son, peace of mind and hope... personally and for humanity.

"No promise you could hold, sway, or justify my giving away my center." That line is spoken to temptation's face... aka, the devil.

I'm not going to analyze your interpretation here, because I would prefer to attack the source. When I asked after the meaning of your lyrical assertion, I meant that your posit lacks proper, grammatical, sentence structure. The way that you array the punctuation, "hold, sway, or justify" becomes a string of three verbs that permutates to the following meaning: No promise you could hold, no promise you could sway, or no promise you could justify . . . But then, where does it go from there? No promise you could hold, no promise you could sway, or no promise you could justify my kneeling away my center. That is not a complete sentence- it is two independent clauses that lack a connection, and when a statment is composed of two, unconnected, independent clauses . . . IT HAS NO MEANING!

It's certainly NOT "pressure" like you think it is. No "pressure" could hold, sway or justify my giving away my center. haha.

Don't apply your poor punctuation and grammar to my assertion. Again, since you obviously missed it the first time:

No pressure could hold sway, or justify my kneeling away my center.

Note the placement of the commas. Now let's break it down like I broke yours down. No pressure could hold sway, or no pressure could justify my kneeling away center. See, unlike yours, mine expands into a complete and meaningful sentence. No pressure could hold sway over my course of action, and no pressure could justify sacrificing my center. I feel that I shoud also add that I could juxtapose "pressure" with "prize here." It changes the context only slightly. With "pressure," the narrator is saying that threats will not change his mind, while with "prize here," the narrator is saying that incentives will not change his mind.

As for "giving away" vs. "kneeling away," the word following "justify my" starts with an "N" sound and has an "L" sound at the middle. There is no hard "G," and there is no "V."

And now, back to this:

and since you want to be a dick ...

Golf clap for your stunning and illumnating wit, Mr. Pot, but when you pissed all over my black kettle . . .

Every one of your posts that I have ever read is teeming with smarmy sarcasm and imbued with an overdeveloped, self-satisfied, superiority complex. You don't participate in diplomatic debate; rather you tell everybody that they are wrong and that they are stupid for not seeing things your way. Normally I would ignore that (as I have ignored you since joining this forum), but when somebody talks some kind of hot-shit, grammarian talk, and then walks me through some of the most piss-poor grammar I've seen in a good long while (no offense to K IN YO MOUF)- and does so while exhibiting such unmitigated dickheadery- I just can't resist. In summation (of this point, anyway), I wish to impart upon you some third-grade wisdom that you seem to have missed in your coming of age: If you can't take it, don't dish it. And if you're gonna dish it, quit your whining when you take it.

[Terry21]

*longasspost* I'M COOL BECUZ I'M LIEK MNRD divide the schism into divine pieces,

[ThreeDeviations]

I said understanding tense is ONE key to understanding a song. So if you're going to attempt to use my thoughts as condescending ammo... at least get it right. I never said I am the "master" or "mastered" verb tense. I said it's ONE key.

At 5:42, he does say "SHINE DOWN FOREVER"... you want to take it up with Maynard, go ahead. I am merely telling you what's being said.

Shine, shone. He's not literally taking about rays of sunshine. It's metaphorical.

Maybe you should write Maynard and break him down about Sober's lyrics. "Why can't we not be sober." See any problems with that grammatically, grammar boy?

Oh, and since YOU ignored the question. Would Maynard refer to a song of Tool's as "my song?"

When did I say it was "shine down" the "whole way through?"

"Shined down forever" doesn't really make sense gramatically... true. I also conceded it may not be "shined down forever." I said "shine down forever" after listening to it further.
It certainly doesn't rule itself out phonetically. Maybe you've ruled it out.

PSALM.
So now Maynard only uses words in the most basic form of meaning, connotation, understanding and association? Incorrect, sir.
Yeah, he must be concerned that the kids won't understand... unless of course, he only uses the simplest meanings and associations for the words he chooses.

Inention, Intension. Different words, but similar concept. Opiate.

I was at the Meadowlands awhile back. A horse named PSALM went off at 1-9.
He won easily.

As for "No promise you could hold, sway, or justify my giving away my center."
You do have a point there... and I could possibly have the commas in the wrong position.. But those commas may be correct, and I may just have the wrong word(s).
So I concede it may not be "promise." Not due to anything you've said... I'm just not steadfast about that particular word because it is fuzzy. I will give more thought to this particular sentence. I assure you it's not "pressure" though. So you can go through a list of words that might make grammatical sense to satisfy the rest of the sentence if you'd like... it does no good when it's the wrong word, even if it makes grammatical sense.

So you had all this pent up anger with me from previous posts... so you thought you'd jump me when you saw that I finally left an opening for you? Very mature and noble, teach.

Maybe I'm Mr. Pot.

You're Mr. Hypocrite.

By the way, Ohm, Home, All. I am not certain about that... just like I am not certain about "promise."

But let me get it straight before I leave this apparent diplomatic debate.. so Maynard probably wouldn't use the word Psalm, unless it's used in a religious connotation. However, he WOULD use a very rare definition and connotation of the word "Ohm!"

Now I know.

[benjamin]

While this song does seem to be about general "repentance" if you will. I strongly disagree with the thought of Jambi being about his/a child. Having kids is great, I have 2 and am expecting... however children bring with them the feeling of meaning, strength and purpose, and less of remorse or guilt, or anything of that nature. It sure seems to me to be more of a love song than anything else, as he sings "So if I could I wish it all away, if I thought tomarrow..." sounds more like what you'd say to the woman you hold dear. Espescially(sp) when we know he's talking about "treasures of flesh..." and all. As I say, kids don't make you "feel bad" exactly about your past, such as, maybe a woman would. Furthermore, for said female, a man is sure to "wish this all away" (meaning his past premiscuas(sp) behaviour) Something that children do not really make you feel. Furthermore again, Maynard sings of making 2 become 1. That's selfexplainitorilly pretty grose. Also I didn't see anywhere posted that, at 2:13 he sings "BRAVE like a myrter dusk 'till dawn" it's the brave part that I didn't see anywhere, and to me it's pretty clear. You have to remember that "dusk 'till dawn" is the same thing as "all night long" and so I feel he's comparing the two not as opposites but the same (brave like myrter-beg like a hooker) AANND!! it's dim my eyes! Damnit when Maynerd says Damn there's no mistaking it.

[ThreeDeviations]

While this song does seem to be about general "repentance" if you will. I strongly disagree with the thought of Jambi being about his/a child. Having kids is great, I have 2 and am expecting... however children bring with them the feeling of meaning, strength and purpose, and less of remorse or guilt, or anything of that nature. It sure seems to me to be more of a love song than anything else, as he sings "So if I could I wish it all away, if I thought tomarrow..." sounds more like what you'd say to the woman you hold dear. Espescially(sp) when we know he's talking about "treasures of flesh..." and all. As I say, kids don't make you "feel bad" exactly about your past, such as, maybe a woman would. Furthermore, for said female, a man is sure to "wish this all away" (meaning his past premiscuas(sp) behaviour) Something that children do not really make you feel. Furthermore again, Maynard sings of making 2 become 1. That's selfexplainitorilly pretty grose. Also I didn't see anywhere posted that, at 2:13 he sings "BRAVE like a myrter dusk 'till dawn" it's the brave part that I didn't see anywhere, and to me it's pretty clear. You have to remember that "dusk 'till dawn" is the same thing as "all night long" and so I feel he's comparing the two not as opposites but the same (brave like myrter-beg like a hooker) AANND!! it's dim my eyes! Damnit when Maynerd says Damn there's no mistaking it.


I don't agree with too much you have to say other than it could be "brave" like a martyr... I teetered on that myself.

I just listened to the "no promise/prize/pressure/price (you) could hold sway" line for about an hour straight... haha... and I am more unsure now about every word in that whole sentence than ever before...

the only part I really know is correct is, "or justify my.."

I am gonna figure it out though-

[PhiRatio]

Meh.


I think Maynard is neither equating nor would equate his works as Psalms. He is not making music in service to any God or ultimacy or what-have-you. He sold his soul to make a record, remember.

You're my peace of mind, my Ohm, my center.

I think Maynard is neither equating nor would equate his works as Psalms. He is not making music in service to any God or ultimacy or what-have-you. He sold his soul to make a record, remember.

However, I am very swayed by the Indonesian theme of the song, and I really think that it's "Ohm" and not "home."



You're my peace of mind, my Ohm, my center.

Ohm? An ohm is a unit of electrical resistance. A word that implies resistance does not belong in between the words "peace of mind" and "my center." Enlighten me, how does the word "ohm" tie in with the "Indonesian theme" of the song? I can't think of a single way, other than it's the sound you make in yoga class during mediation. And I suppose you could associate that sound of the word “ohm” with an "Indonesian theme," if you associate yoga and meditation with Indonesia or something wacky like that. So, stretch it that far, say it's "ohm," ... (which isn't ever capitalized, by the way, unless it begins a sentence). The word “ohm” makes absolutely no sense. It’s not a proper noun or some Indonesian thing. Is it?

What else about this song, besides the title, is screaming out Indonesia? I'm just not sure. Maybe I'm missing it all together. I don't think there is an Indonesian theme simply because the title is a city in Indonesia.

Psalm? I think that's possible.

Let's roll with your Indonesian theme for a second…

In Indonesian life, religion is omnipresent. Indonesia is the country with the largest Muslim population in the world. Approximately 80 percent of all Indonesians are devout Muslims. In general, Indonesia is a deeply religious nation. Religion is a HUGE part of Indonesain culture.

So, he wouldn't use the word psalm because of the religious connotation? But, he would base an entire song on some “Indonesian theme.” That correct?

“Tempted the devil with my psalm.”

A psalm is a poem of praise. The song is about no longer wanting to succumb to temptation and also no longer wanting to give praise to his own darkest desires, to pay homage to 'the devil.' He will no longer succumb to the superficial. To give into ‘the devil’ and to enjoy the material things/the superficial, is to praise the devil, in essence to worship the devil. So, why not use a word with religious connotation? It doesn’t have to imply a book of the bible. The devil himself is certainly associated with religion, guess that was a bad choice as well if there are no religious connotations allowed. Your own “Indonesian theme” doesn’t work if there are no religious connotations allowed, and neither does psalm.

The thing is, religious connotations are fine. He is ‘religious’ when it comes to his desire to overcome this temptation, so why not use 'religious' words to describe the way his state of mind has changed from the way 'the devil' held him down to the way his "center" lifts him up.

[ThreeDeviations]

No profit / prophet could hold sway, or justify my giving away my center.

[ThreeDeviations]

Here from the king's mountain view...
Here from the wild dream come true

Feast like a sultan I do
on treasures and flesh never few

But I,
I would
wish it all away if I thought I'd lose you... just one day

The devil and his had me Doubt..

In love with the dark side I'd found
Dabblin' all the way down
Up to my neck soon to drown
but you changed that all for me
lifted me up, turned me 'round.

So I
I
I
I
I would
I would
I would
wish this all away.

Brave like a martyr dusk till dawn
Beg like a hooker all night long
Shout to the devil with my PSALM
and got what I wanted all along

But I
and I would
if I could
'n I would
wish it away
Winch it away
wish it all away
wanna wish it all away
no Profit/Prophet could hold sway or justify my giving away my center

so if I could I'd wish it all away
if I thought tomorrow would take you away
you're my peace of mind, my all, my saturn
I'm just trying to hold on one more day..

damn my eyes
jam-bi eyes
dim my eyes if they should compromise our fulcrum.
Wanton needs divide me then I might as well be gone...

Shined on forever
Shine on benevolent Sun
Shine down upon the broken, shine until the two become one.

Shine on forever. Shine on benevolent Sun.
Shine down upon the severed, shine until the two become one.

Divided I'm withering away.
Divided I'm withering away.

Shine down upon the many, light our ways, benevolent Sun.

Breathe in union
Breathe in union
Breathe in union
Breathe in union

PRAY in union

so,
as one,
survive another day and season

silence legion, save your poison
silence legion, stay out of my way.

[benjamin]

I don't agree with too much you have to say other than it could be "brave" like a martyr... I teetered on that myself.

I just listened to the "no promise/prize/pressure/price (you) could hold sway" line for about an hour straight... haha... and I am more unsure now about every word in that whole sentence than ever before...

the only part I really know is correct is, "or justify my.."

I am gonna figure it out though-

Ha Ha, after listening too for hours on I that phrase, it unmistakingly sounds again and again like "No prize you could hold, sway or justify..."
But thats just an incomplete sentance. Therefore, I tend to think "pressure" fits better than "prize you"

[swampyfool]

Ha Ha, after listening too for hours on I that phrase, it unmistakingly sounds again and again like "No prize you could hold, sway or justify..."
But thats just an incomplete sentance. Therefore, I tend to think "pressure" fits better than "prize you"

Try "prize here". I hear the "I," too, but it seems like it could be misleading. However, if it is an "I" sound, then "prize here" does better to fit the template set by "pressure."

[ThreeDeviations]

What the hell is going on with this site?!

If it ain't broke....

[BlanketEffect]

Ohm<< I think he was refering to either Aum or Om, the Hindu and Buddhist words (respectively) representing the sound of the vibration of the universe. It is the root word in many/most mantras and is considered the core sound at the heart of reality. It would refer to the heart of his being.

Saturn/Center<< My vote is with 'center' - he references his 'fulcrum' later, which is another way of saying 'center' Whereas, 'Saturn' could not hold anything but a negative connotation by any metaphor I've ever heard tied to it.

Sheltered/Shouted/Tempted<< I actually hear 'sceptered', but this is not a certainty and may likely be something different; but, phonetically I hear 'sceptered'.

Pressure/Prize here/Prophet<< 'Prize here' sounds more like it phonetically and 'prize here' would denote that nothing worldly, no prize that he could hold here on Earth could justify him kneeling away the heart of his being. - I just listened to it again and I can hear the 'Z' sound of 'prize' very clearly. It contrasts the other sounds going on in the song at that moment. Try headphones.

Kneeling/Giving<< I'm all for different points of view, but I can't even hear 'giving' if I try to. I hear the 'N' and 'L' sounds of 'kneeling' perfectly with no effort whatsoever.

Wanton needs/Wants and needs<< I will concede that it may be 'wanton needs' but I think it is 'wants and needs' - Perhaps stating that if obligations (needs) and desires (wants) take him in different directions then he is no good and might as well not be there in the first place. Although, 'wanton needs' could mean something along the same lines. This is simply a case of phonetics; literally it could be either.

Shined on/Shine on<< Should go without saying. 'Shined on' is just poor English. Period. I don't think Maynard would do it. It's an imperative statement, not a narrative. He's commanding (literally) the sun/son to shine down. He's not telling us the story of how the sun shined down, in which case it would be 'shone down' - Yeah, 'shined down' isn't really even an option.

There are more, but I've got other things to tend to for the moment. If anyone has any rational, logical, well-expressed arguments against any of the points I've raised I'd love to compare notes.

[ThreeDeviations]

Kneeling/Giving. It's close. I can hear why people think it's kneeling... but I can also hear giving. Considering that "kneeling away my center" doesn't really make sense unless you really stretch... well, then it still doesn't.
Also, if kneeling does have a "praying" connotation... the "center," his core, would have to be something negative he's trying to rid.

No Profit/prize/pressure could justify him giving it away... implying his "center" is NOT something he's trying eliminate or escape. So why then is he "kneeling?"

I can hear an "s" sound in the "no promise/prize/pressure." But I really think it's just a result of letters clashing and that sound resulting. Sort of "mirage" of the ears.

Try just listening to "Profit/Prophet" one time.. without saying in your mind what you think it is when that part plays.

As for "shined on forever"... (if not Shined on, it's shine down) I am not saying it makes sense grammatically. I am saying that's what it sounds like he's saying. "Why can't we not be sober" doesn't make sense gramatically either. Although I do agree that Maynard is very meticulous with his word choices.. and how things are structured... gramatically or otherwise... it is "art"... and that transcends realms.

[benjamin]

How about these for debatables; "Divided, where the hell are we?"
Divided, where the hell are we?.."

[benjamin]

silently just say your poison
silently just stay out of my way

this interpritation centers around a drawn-out "si-lent-ly just"
also I hear no V sound in the first line, at all/whatsoever

[benjamin]

as for kneeling/giving. It s most definatley giving. I think the whole kneeling thing involves also thinking "center" is "sinner". Nonetheless, "kneeling away my sinner..." is absolutley not what I hear.

[BlanketEffect]

This is a little long-winded, but there are some very good points in it, so read it if you're into this kind of thing.

Sober<< Actually, 'Why can't we not be sober?" is a grammatically perfect statement. It's it same as saying 'Why can't we be intoxicated?' - just because it's worded strangely (more specifically, archaicly) doesn't make it an inappropriate statement. It's just not what you're lingually used to. We're taught that double-negatives are innappropriate in school, but that's not always the case. Sometimes a double-negative is the only way to accurately express your intended message.

Kneeling/Giving<< I just hear the long "E" sound too distinctly to think it's 'giving' - now I know 'giving' could be said with an implied usage of the long "E" phonetic sound, but I think 'kneeling' fits my next interpretation better, as well. Although 'giving' would fit, literally, into the following interpretation, also.

Kneeling away my center<< He's not already kneeling, or at least he no longer is. It's not about kneeling as in prayer, it's about kneeling as in paying homage to, like a peasant to the king. Ergo, in the entire context of the lyrics that *I* hear it would mean this: There's no prize that the devil could offer that would hold regard to Maynard or that could justify him being in subserviance (kneeling) to the devil when it contradicts the core of his being and beliefs/ideals (his center). In other words, no prize is worth giving up your soul for - whatever that means to Maynard... The song is describing the realization of that. That nothing the 'dark side' offers is worth giving away your center.

The prophet/prize thing>> I don't have any specific inclination to want to think it's 'prize'. In fact, because I didn't warm up to this song right away I'm only now starting to really know/feel all of the lyrics. But regardless, when listening on headphones (definitely the best medium for hearing lyrics in the vocals) I hear a "Z" sound just clear as day without having to even pay attention to the vocals. It's just (to me) that blatantly obvious that the "Z" sound is there. I could be wrong, but it's just what I hear, loud and clear.

Shine<< If it's *anything* other than 'shine on' then it's 'shine down' - Again, I don't think 'shined on' can be seriously considered, Maynard being Maynard.

That's all for now. Appreciate the dialogue.

[benjamin]

Heaven; a kings mountain view. Heaven; a wild dream come true.
Feast like a sultain I do, on treasures and flesh never few.
But I; I would wish it all away.
If I thought I'd lose you just one day.

The devil and his had me down, in love with the dark side I'd foul. (thxmonkey)
Dabble in all the way down, up to my neck so to drown.
But you changed that all for me, lifted me up turned me around.
So I; I... I... I...
I would; I would; I would wish this all away.

Brave like a myrter dusk to dawn. Beg like hooker all night long.
Shout to the devil with my soul and get what I wanted all alone.
But I; I would if I could, I would,
Wish it away. Wish it away. Wish it all away. Wanna wish it all away.

No prize you could hold; sway, or justify my giving away my center.
So if I could i'd wish it all away if I thought tomarrow would take you away.
You my piece of mind my home I said I'm just tryin' to hold on one more day.
Dim my eyes, dim my eyes, dim my eyes if they should compromize a fulcrum.
Want and need divide me then I might as well be gone.

Shine down forever, shine on benevolent sun.
Shine down upon the broken. Shine untill the two become one.

Shine on forever, shine on benevolent sun.
Shine down upon the sever shine untill the two become one.

Divided where the hell are we? Divided where the hell are we?
Shine down upon the many, light our ways benevolent sun.

Breathe in union. Breathe in union. Breathe in union. Breathe in union.
PRAY in union. So as one survive another day and season.
(threedivi's just shown me the light!!THX)
Silently just say your poison.
Silently just stay out of my way.

FREAKEY does anybody else hear a faint yell in the backround after the word just or "legion', there's a sort of "yeah!" it almost sounds like a cat meeow way in the distance?

Oh well that's my take on Jambi.

[spacemonkeyadb]

^ Unless you think he's saying something about chicken's, you might wanna edit "fowl" to "foul" in your above post! LOL.

There's a pretty clear "F" for "Here from..." so I don't think it is "Heaven" at the start, but it was an interesting new suggestion.

I think it's "...dark side I'd FOUND" because this would rhyme better with "down", "drown", and "around" from the next two lines. (Although I know he doesn't actually pronounce the final "D" for "found".)

For the same reason I think the next part is "...the devil with my SONG, and got what I wanted all ALONG".
And to THREEDEVIATIONS: I think MJK can sing "MY SONG" without arrogantly claiming ownership of what is really Tool's song. When he sings there is an act of singing which is his alone. So "my song" could refer to his particular act of singing Tool's song, rather than the song itself.

"No prize you could hold; sway, or justify my giving away my center"
This just doesn't make any sense at all. And I don't hear the "Z". "Pressure" makes much more sense and fits what I hear perfectly:
"No pressure could hold sway, or justify my giving away my center"
"Kneeling" doesn't make much sense here either IMO. And if the line is sung with emotion/intensity the "V" in "giving" wouldn't get fully pronounced, and would sound like "...my GI'IN' away..."

I'm prepared to say that it's definitely not "Divided where the hell are we?". There is a definite "N" for "Divided, witheriN(g) away".
It could be "Divided where the hen are we?" and although this would fit better with your "fowl" suggestion :) I think you'll agree that this is incorrect.

Last point: I initially thought it was "PRAY in union" but on closer listening found myself forced to admit that it is "BREATH in union". Quite certain of this now.

[benjamin]

[QUOTE=spacemonkeyadb;1390114]^ Unless you think he's saying something about chicken's, you might wanna edit "fowl" to "foul" in your above post! LOL.

There's a pretty clear "F" for "Here from..." so I don't think it is "Heaven" at the start, but it was an interesting new suggestion.=endQUOTE]

Why would he pronounce "here from" as "heffin"? Which is exactly how it sounds on the cd. He could plainly sound out Here from a kings mountain view. If so desired.

[benjamin]

[QUOTE=spacemonkeyadb;1390114]^

I think it's "...dark side I'd FOUND" because this would rhyme better with "down", "drown", and "around" from the next two lines. (Although I know he doesn't actually pronounce the final "D" for "found".)

O.K. found what?

[ThreeDeviations]

^

Last point: I initially thought it was "PRAY in union" but on closer listening found myself forced to admit that it is "BREATH in union". Quite certain of this now.

It's ...


Breathe in union.. X 4

PRAY in union.. - the final time.


It's very, very clear. Of all the disputed lyrics.. that's by far the easiest to decipher.

as for "my song"... sure, he can claim it's his song. Just like Adam, Justin and Danny can claim it's "their" song as well. Point is, I don't think it would be too out of line for him to say "my song" in his lyrics... Not that I think it would be arrogant... but I believe that's how Maynard would perceive it.
Moreover, it's just not something he would say. It's a lame and generic lyric.


Anyone else listen for the one time he says "Winch" it away? Winch sung once at 2:50 in- and listen to the big difference between "winch" and the "wish."

wish, winch, wish.

I also think it's "the devil and his had me doubt."

and.. I dont think it's "hold" sway anymore... much more like "hone".. which may mean "sway" isn't right either..

you'll likely need headphones.. and have to listen a few times... otherwise you'll say... "he doesn't say "winch" you fuck!" Then you'll go on to tell me how "winch" doesn't even make sense and blah blah.. and I'll say, "maybe it doesn't make sense yet, but it's in there." and ya still won't believe it-

doubt, winch, hone, psalm

[ThreeDeviations]

Here from the king's mountain view...
Here from the wild dream come true

Feast like a sultan I do
on treasures and flesh never few

But I,
I would
wish it all away if I thought I'd lose you... just one day

The devil and his had me DOUBT...

In love with the dark side I'd found
Dabbling all the way down
Up to my neck soon to drown
but you changed that all for me
lifted me up, turned me around.

So I
I
I
I
I would
I would
I would
wish this all away.

Pray like a martyr dusk till dawn
Beg like a hooker all night long

SHAFTED with my PSALM
and got what I wanted all alone/along

But I
and I would
if I could
'n I would

wish it away

WINCH it away

wish it all away
wanna wish it all away

no PROPHET could HONE, sway, or justify my givin' away my center

so if I could I'd wish it all away
if I thought tomorrow would take you away
you're my peace of mind, my all, my saturn
Just trying to hold on one more day..

damn my eyes
jam-bi eyes
dim my eyes if they should compromise our fulcrum.
Wanton need / wants and need divide me then I might as well be gone...


Shined on forever
Shine on benevolent Sun
Shine down upon the broken, shine until the two become one.

Shine on forever. Shine on benevolent Sun.
Shine down upon the severed, shine until the two become one.

Divided I'm withering away.
Divided I'm withering away.

Shine down upon the many, light our ways, benevolent Sun.

Breathe in union
Breathe in union
Breathe in union
Breathe in union

PRAY IN UNION

so, as one, survive another day and season

silence legion, save your poison
silence legion, stay out of my way.

[BlanketEffect]

I kinda like the 'brave like a martyr' idea. I'll see if I hear that.

[benjamin]

I don't hear the V in "save your poison"




At all.

please enlighten me. Silence legion, what?

[benjamin]

Again, why would he sing "heffin" if the lyric is here from? It's just too easy to say here from clearly.

[Terry21]

I kinda like the 'brave like a martyr' idea. I'll see if I hear that.

I like the idea of the song not being named Jambi, but Jamba. That the title is written Jambi on the CD and Maynard announced it that way and it simply IS Jambi doesn't matter, does it?

[Terry21]

Again, why would he sing "heffin" if the lyric is here from? It's just too easy to say here from clearly.

I get your point, but Maynard likes to play with the speech of words, in fact, a lot of Americans do.

[benjamin]

I get your point, but Maynard likes to play with the speech of words, in fact, a lot of Americans do.

Thus I contend he's "playing" with the speech of heaven and not
1)here from,
2)having,
3) If in (it's posted somewhere)
4)

[ThreeDeviations]

Heffin? Maybe "heffin" is the verb for doing a fat chick.

The reason you guys are hearing an "s" sound in the line "no ________ could hone, sway, or justify my giving away my center," is because Danny strikes precisely at that point in the word... which gives your ears an illusion. There is no "s."

It's "prophet."


PHI RATIO... I enjoyed that post.. good stuff. "Indonesian theme." ha

Sober must have an Irish theme because it says "why can't we drink forever."

Sober = Irish theme

[benjamin]

[QUOTE=ThreeDeviations;1392268]Heffin? Maybe "heffin" is the verb for doing a fat chick.

lol then he should've used it in the album Undertow: ie that picture.

[BlanketEffect]

The reason you guys are hearing an "s" sound in the line "no ________ could hone, sway, or justify my giving away my center," is because Danny strikes precisely at that point in the word... which gives your ears an illusion. There is no "s."

It's "prophet."


I disagree. I agree about there being no 'S' there. I agree that Danny clouds the issue. I still here the 'Z' sound reverberating from Maynard's voice, however. For real man, I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass, listen to it on headphones without the lows and highs. Vocals just kinda jump out at you more clearly.

If you think it's an illusion of Danny's drums, so be it. I hear it as its own sound.

As for the Indonesian theme... well, I think too much is being read into it, but the song *is* dripping with the metaphor, isn't it?

'King's mountain view'
'Feast like a sultan'
'treasures and flesh'

BUT - the Jambi title also could quite possibly reference the genie on PeeWee's Playhouse; hence, the 'wish' theme.

But again, just symbolism and metaphor, and not the full meaning/message of the song, by any means.

[BlanketEffect]

Heffin<<

Here from the king's mountain view I feast like a sultan on treasures and flesh, never few.

Here from the wild dream come true I feast like a sultan on treasures and flesh, never few.

Those are what we'd call complete sentences/thoughts.

Heaven, the king's mountain view I feast like a sultan on treasures and flesh, never few.
Heaven, the wild dream come true I feast like a sultan on treasures and flesh, never few.

Neither of those are complete thoughts or sentences. The first verse is one continuous thought/sentence, albeit a run-on sentence. The 'Feast like a sultan' part is a continuation from the prior lines, not an independent clause. It's enhancing.

So he's feasting like a sultan here from the -king's mountain view/wild dream come true-.

Tool is very deep, but don't over-complicate it unnecessarily. Ocham's Razor - two things being of equal liklihood, the simpler is usually the correct answer. Use your logic and reason.

[ThreeDeviations]

Apollo theme.

[BlanketEffect]

Apollo theme continues

[ThreeDeviations]

I disagree. I agree about there being no 'S' there. I agree that Danny clouds the issue. I still here the 'Z' sound reverberating from Maynard's voice, however. For real man, I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass, listen to it on headphones without the lows and highs. Vocals just kinda jump out at you more clearly.


Listen to it on headphones? Ha. Okay. Thanks for the suggestion. I've never tried that! I've never listened to Jambi with headphones on!

No, for real man.. I'm not blowing smoke either.. I bet I've listened to Jambi 500 times with headphones man.. and that part where he says "prophet".. I bet I've listened to that part 2000 times man. Oh yeah, with headphones on too.

Dude, you should try listening to Tool in your car too. It's really neat.

and of course you disagree... you're blanket effect.

[BlanketEffect]

and of course you disagree... you're blanket effect.

*grins*

Honestly, it is sincere, though.

[ThreeDeviations]

Heffin<<

Tool is very deep, but don't over-complicate it unnecessarily. Ocham's Razor - two things being of equal liklihood, the simpler is usually the correct answer. Use your logic and reason.

Okay, thanks for the Tool advice.. Keep it simple stupid. Yeah.. that's pretty much their mantra too.

and... it's Ockham's Razor.


Sincerely,
J. Foster

[BlanketEffect]

Okay, thanks for the Tool advice.. Keep it simple stupid. Yeah.. that's pretty much their mantra too.

and... it's Ockham's Razor.


Sincerely,
J. Foster

Didn't say keep it simple. I said don't over-complicate. There's a distinct difference.

I'm off to bed, we can dance tomorrow.

[ThreeDeviations]

When I need assistance keeping my narcissism, rage and overanalyzing in check.. I just smoke a whole bunch of dimethyltryptamine. It's fantastic.

I mean, ya can't be a true Tool fan without an inundated system full of shit.

[swampyfool]

I said understanding tense is ONE key to understanding a song. So if you're going to attempt to use my thoughts as condescending ammo... at least get it right. I never said I am the "master" or "mastered" verb tense. I said it's ONE key.

A key . . . The key . . . You believe that understanding tenses helps in understanding meaning, but you still site the lyric as "shined on" in your most recent interpretation. That's just not possible. "Shined on forever" (as I said before) would describe the condition of somebody who had been polishing silverware or shoes for what seemed an interminably long time. That just doesn't work within the context of the rest of the song, unless you think this is the lament of a shoeshine boy who has been separated from his best customer . . ?

At 5:42, he does say "SHINE DOWN FOREVER"... you want to take it up with Maynard, go ahead. I am merely telling you what's being said.

Shine, shone. He's not literally taking about rays of sunshine. It's metaphorical.

. . .

When did I say it was "shine down" the "whole way through?"

On my copy at 5:42, Maynard is saying "son/sun" for the first time, so it just kinda seemed to me that you had mistakingly sited 5:42 as the beginning of the section (and I see that you edited it back to 5:38 later). I don't dispute that he says "shine down" during that section- it's just that I thought you had suggested it as a possible alternative to "shined on." And in fact, yes, you did . . .

The lyric could be saying "shine down forever" instead of "shined on forever."

It is NOT "shine on forever" at 5:42. It's either "Shined on forever" or "Shine down forever."

Anyway, for the record . . .

Shine on, forever;
Shine on, benevolent [son/sun].
Shine down upon the broken;
Shine [on 'til/until] the two become one.
Shine on, forever;
Shine on, benevolent [son/sun].
Shine down upon the severred;
Shine [on 'til/until] the two become one.
Divided, I'm withering away!
Divided, I'm withering away!
Shine down upon the many;
Light our way*, benevolent [son/sun].

(* I still here some sort of a consonant at the end of this, maybe it's wave . . . wake . . ?)

Shined and shone . . . You qoute it as "benveolent sun." The sun doesn't polish shit- not even metaphorically. If Maynard was describing the actions of the sun in past tense, it would have to be "shone-" AND IT'S NOT. It's also not shined.

Maybe you should write Maynard and break him down about Sober's lyrics. "Why can't we not be sober." See any problems with that grammatically, grammar boy?

Actually . . . The notion that the double negative is improper grammar is akin to the notion that you can't subtract a larger number from a smaller . . . It's the bullshit refuge of teachers who are too lazy to go into a lengthier explanation of the further, potentially confusing complexities. When you first learn to subtract, the teacher doesn't want to try to explain negative numbers; likewise, when an English teacher explains double negatives . . . Double negatives are generally considered improper because in standard usage, people tend to unintentionally invert their proferred meanings. For example, "I ain't afraid of no ghosts," actually implies that the speaker does fear ghosts; when the intention is to imply that no such fear exists. However, since Maynard is actually asking, "Why can't we get high?" the double negative is proper. Grammatically less efficient, grammatically more awkward . . . but the proferred meaning is preserved, and the effect of the double negative has a drama all it's own.

Oh, and since YOU ignored the question. Would Maynard refer to a song of Tool's as "my song?"

That depends on the context. Are these lyrics a personal narrative, or did Justin, Danny and Adam share in the revelations detailed within? Is Maynard talking about the work of Tool, or his own contribution? It seems to me that you are suggesting that Maynard would be displaying quite a stroke of ego to characterize a Tool song as solely his. But each member of the band has a different experience of each song; so if Maynard is only chronicling his own experience, would it not be proper for him to describe it as his song? I just don't see the conflict.

"Shined down forever" doesn't really make sense gramatically... true. I also conceded it may not be "shined down forever." I said "shine down forever" after listening to it further.
It certainly doesn't rule itself out phonetically. Maybe you've ruled it out.

But it does rule itself out, and yes, I have ruled it out (accordingly). He does say "Shine down upon the [broken/severred/many] . . ." and it is unmistakably distinct from the precursor to " . . . forever." Shine on, forever . . . Shine down upon . . .

PSALM.
So now Maynard only uses words in the most basic form of meaning, connotation, understanding and association? Incorrect, sir.
Yeah, he must be concerned that the kids won't understand... unless of course, he only uses the simplest meanings and associations for the words he chooses.

. . .

By the way, Ohm, Home, All. I am not certain about that... just like I am not certain about "promise."

But let me get it straight before I leave this apparent diplomatic debate.. so Maynard probably wouldn't use the word Psalm, unless it's used in a religious connotation. However, he WOULD use a very rare definition and connotation of the word "Ohm!"

Now I know.

And let's let somebody else in to the conversation for a moment . . .

You're my peace of mind, my Ohm, my center.

. . .

What else about this song, besides the title, is screaming out Indonesia? I'm just not sure. Maybe I'm missing it all together. I don't think there is an Indonesian theme simply because the title is a city in Indonesia.

. . .

Let's roll with your Indonesian theme for a second…

In Indonesian life, religion is omnipresent. Indonesia is the country with the largest Muslim population in the world. Approximately 80 percent of all Indonesians are devout Muslims. In general, Indonesia is a deeply religious nation. Religion is a HUGE part of Indonesain culture.

Yes, Maynard does bend words to his purpose. I'll concede that it could be psalm (I think that I already did) depending on the inferred context. To me, it just seems strange that Maynard would consider any of his personal works to be a "psalm," given his opinion toward the institutions that coined the term. My problem is that you rule out "song" without even the paltry benefit of prejudice. "Song" works, and I personally hear neither the "L," nor the "M." So I have to say it is best to remain open to both until Maynard gives us the canon- if he does. For my money, "song" makes better sense, but that's just one man's opinion . . .

On the topic of om (sorry if I misspelled that earlier . . .); while it is a term of Buddhist origin, it is also applied to secular meditation- and I would argue that this word has closer and more common affiliation to a secular connotation than does "psalm." Furthermore, in the context of the Indonesian theme (the vehicle that Maynard uses to relate his own experience while it provides perspective, in my opinion), "om" is granted extra creedence. Indonesia is now mainly Muslim, but historically, Buddhism played a significant role in the shaping of these cultures. The people of Jambi consider themselves to be Muslim, but many of their traditions are holdovers from the past. They are relatively unique in that respect among Indonesians. In the research that I have done, many of these holdover traditions that are at odds with Islamic dogma seem pretty Buddhist, but I'm not really knowledgeable enough about Buddhism to say for sure.

I do know that Buddhism and Hinduism share ideologies and geneses in much the same way that the Abrahamic faiths do. I also know that there are vast geographical borders that exist between pockets of heavy Islamic concentrations and pockets of heavy Hindi or Buddhist concentrations throughout Asia. Along these borders, there exist cultures that blend aspects of both ideologies in their rligious practices. For example, the Sufi Muslims of Asia Minor (Turkey)- known as "whirling dervishes" for the circular dances they use to induce a trance-like, meditative state- apply Vedic (Hindu) concepts of meditation in their worship of Allah. Thus, it follows that there is precedent for a Muslim culture that incorporates Buddhist concepts like "om." And thus, it follows that in using the tragic story of the fall of Jambi as a vehicle to tell his own stories, the word "om" might very well appear when referencing an entity of significance.

[swampyfool]

Wow, 10,000 characters in the fire is not long enough. Who knew there were limits on post length?

As for "No promise you could hold, sway, or justify my giving away my center."
You do have a point there... and I could possibly have the commas in the wrong position.. But those commas may be correct, and I may just have the wrong word(s).
So I concede it may not be "promise." Not due to anything you've said... I'm just not steadfast about that particular word because it is fuzzy. I will give more thought to this particular sentence. I assure you it's not "pressure" though. So you can go through a list of words that might make grammatical sense to satisfy the rest of the sentence if you'd like... it does no good when it's the wrong word, even if it makes grammatical sense.

The more I listen, the more I hear "prize here." Those commas can't be correct, though- unless you have just about every other word wrong. That sentence structure just doesn't work, as demonstrated earlier. As for "promise you," there are only two syllables between "no," and "could"- "promise you" just doesn't fit.

So you had all this pent up anger with me from previous posts... so you thought you'd jump me when you saw that I finally left an opening for you? Very mature and noble, teach.

Maybe I'm Mr. Pot.

You're Mr. Hypocrite.

No. No pent up anger, just tacit contempt. You leave plenty of openings, I just ussually don't care- but it's been kinda slow around here, and I just have a problem with people preaching grammar without the ability to back it up. If that makes me a hypocrite, then I musta been high.

Speaking of which, I'm gonna go get high.

[swampyfool]

Kneeling/Giving. It's close. I can hear why people think it's kneeling... but I can also hear giving. Considering that "kneeling away my center" doesn't really make sense unless you really stretch... well, then it still doesn't.
Also, if kneeling does have a "praying" connotation... the "center," his core, would have to be something negative he's trying to rid.

No such stretch is necessary. Kneeling is an act of subservience. One does not assume a subservient posture without giving something away. In this case, in these circumstances, the narrator says that no prize offered to him could hold sway over his course of action, and that the personal gain that could be had from accepting this gift could not justify kneeling away his center. And you're just not using logic when you say that the connotation of "kneeling" must imply that the center is somthing of which he is trying to rid himself. First, I never said that "kneeling" implied prayer. Second, Sultan Taha was presented with the option of kneeling to the Dutch imperialists, most likely as both a sign of subservience to Dutch interest and as a sign of religious conversion. I may be going out on a limb here, but a man named Taha Safiuddin bin Muhammad would probably consider his religion to be central, his center, if you will- so to kneel in subservience to the god of Christianity would be tantamount to "kneeling away [his] center." No such stretch is necessary.

[swampyfool]

How about these for debatables; "Divided, where the hell are we?"
Divided, where the hell are we?.."

I just don't hear that, sorry.

[swampyfool]

as for kneeling/giving. It s most definatley giving. I think the whole kneeling thing involves also thinking "center" is "sinner". Nonetheless, "kneeling away my sinner..." is absolutley not what I hear.

I agree that "sinner" is completely wrong, but why does "kneeling" have to be followed by "sinner?" I've thought that it was "kneeling" almost from the get-go, but never did I think that it was "sinner."

[swampyfool]

"Indonesian theme." ha

Sober must have an Irish theme because it says "why can't we drink forever."

Sober = Irish theme

Hmmmmmmm . . .

1. Jambi is the name of a region in Indonesia.
2. Jambi is mountainous, here from the king's mountain view.
3. Jambi was ruled by sultans; I imagine that they feasted.
4. Jambi was divided into two kingdoms after the Dutch invaded, the upper ruled by Taha, the lower by the Dutch; and divided, they were withering away, waiting for the sun to shine on 'til the two became one.

Keep talking- the sound of flatulence amuses me.

[swampyfool]

Here from the king's mountain view;
Here from the wild dream come true;
Feast like a sultan, I do
On treasures and flesh never few.

But I- I would wish it all away
If I thought I'd lose you just one day

The devil and his had me down
In love with the dark side I'd found.
Dabblin' all the way down
Up to my neck soon to drown.

But you changed that all for me
Lifted me up, turned me 'round.

So I . . . I . . . I . . . I
I would (3x)
Wish this all away

Pray like a martyr dusk to dawn
Beg like a hooker all night long
Tempted the devil with my song
And got what I wanted all along

But I
I would
If I could
I would
Wish it away
Wish it away
Wish it all away
Wanna wish it all away
No prize here could hold sway,
Or justify my
Kneeling away, my center

So if I could I'd wish it all away
If I thought tomorrow would take you away

You're my piece of mind,
My Om
I said I'm just trying to hold on
One more day

Damn* my eyes!
Jam* my eyes!
Dim* my eyes!
If they should compromise
Our fulcrum
Watching me divide me
Then I might as well be gone...

Shine on forever;
Shine on benevolent [sun/son].
Shine down upon the broken;
Shine [on 'til / until] the two become one.
Shine on forever;
Shine on benevolent [sun/son].
Shine down upon the severed;
Shine [on 'til / until] the two become one.
Divided, I'm withering away (2x)
Shine down upon the many, light our [way/wave/wake],
Benevolent [sun/son].

Breathe in union (5x)
So, as one, survive
Another day and season.
Silence! Legion say your praise in
Silently, just stay out of my way.

(*Damn, Jam, Dim . . . ANYTHING BUT JAMBI EYES . . . I'm content to wait for the canon on this one.)

[BlanketEffect]

When I need assistance keeping my narcissism, rage and overanalyzing in check.. I just smoke a whole bunch of dimethyltryptamine. It's fantastic.


Well, let me know how that goes. I've always wanted to try it.

[BlanketEffect]

As for SPO's lyrics, I agree with everything except I believe:

'piece of mind' is 'peace of mind'

'I said' I think is 'my center'

'watching me divide me' is an interesting theory, and sensible, but not sure if that's it or not.

'Silence! Legion say your praise in; Silently, just stay out of my way.'
- I think this is just wrong. The first line is ended in a preposition. You can't do that as the sentence/thought doesn't resolve. Not only that, but, 'say your praise in' just doesn't make any sense, even if you tack the 'silently' onto the end of the sentence.

I think more along the lines of:

'Silence Legion, save your poison; silently just stay out of my way'
- Especially if you still take into account the whole 'devil' thing. Legion, being a demon(s), is representing 'the devil' making offers to 'justify kneeling away my center' but which in actuality is poison. So... Legion, save your poison and be quiet, simply leave me alone and stay out of my way.

[benjamin]

" I still hear some consinant there.*"

the missing letter is "s" ..."light our wayS..."

[benjamin]

Silently...both times.

if you try to sing this, starting at breathe in union x3. About the time you get to "silently just say your poison..." your running out of breath and I feel he takes one right in the middle of the next "silently"

I still don't and never have heard "silence legions" and at the expense of sounding immature, I still don't fathum what that means.

[ThreeDeviations]

SPO-

at 5:42, it certainly is either "shined on" forever or "shine down" forever.
(the Itunes player is slightly different than a traditional player.. say, your car stereo.. so if I said 5:38, instead of 5:42.. wooaa.. I'm sorry. It possibly even could've been a typo!) Obviously, I was explaining it was the first time he said "shined on/shine down/ forever." Afterall, nothing is said at 5:38. So a logical person would've assumed I was referring to the instance at 5:42.

It sounds most like "shined down" forever. I didn't sing it. Doesn't make grammatical sense? If it does say shined down.. and you have a problem with it.. it has nothing to do with me.

You go on to write out the whole "shine down/shine on" verse... totally unnecessary. The only part we disagree on is the first line.


Tense?
Yeah, "a key" is different than "the key." "A key" implies it's one of a few different variables that are important. "The key" suggests it's the end-all.
And if you're going to quote me.. I said, "one" key. You can at least get that right, can't you?

"I ain't fraid of no ghosts." No. There's nothing in that statement that suggests the person fears ghosts. Try again. "No sale." I understand what you were trying so desperately to say though... so no worries.

"my song"
You say, "That depends on the context. Are these lyrics a personal narrative, or did Justin, Danny and Adam share in the revelations detailed within?"
Gee, a song like Wings must be entirely Maynard's then.. cuz it's very improbable Danny, Justin and Adam sat down with him to write that song's lyrics.
Despite the fact a lot of the lyrics in their songs are about many of his (maynard's) personal tribulations, experiences and thoughts... he still refers to the songs as Tool's.

"Our blues album?" Fuck that. Maynard's blues album!

Severred? Oh, I see you got it right later.

I "rule out" the possibility of it being "song?" I don't rule it out. I don't even rule it out right now even though I firmly believe it's PSALM. In fact, I used to think it was "song" before I listened closely to that part... I hear the "alm" part of the pronunciation.
I also don't believe Maynard would use "my song" because it's a lame and innacurate way of conveying the medium in which he "tempted" or "shafted" the devil. That's like him saying, "Hi devil. Nevermind all of my actions, thoughts and decisions in my actual life outside of this musical song... yeah, disregard all that. I am just going to tempt/shaft you with this!"

A psalm is more encapsulating... and more PERSONAL. (MY) Psalm.


Preaching grammar? Because I said "tense" is one key to get a better understanding of a song's potential meaning... that hardly equates to me "preaching grammar," grammar boy.

4. "Jambi was divided into two kingdoms after the Dutch invaded, the upper ruled by Taha, the lower by the Dutch; and divided, they were withering away, waiting for the sun to shine on 'til the two became one."

Haha, that's way better than flatulence. Is there a way "WINCH" can fit the Indonesian theme too? Maybe a cranking device to remove the literal and figurative mountains between Taha and the Dutch. Yeah.


He does say "Jam-bi eyes." "Bi" meaning two. Esentially the same way of saying "Jam my two eyes."

"Watching me divide me." Nooo.. no. Not correct for many reasons. Primarily, because that's not what he says. Secondly... tense? oh.

So he goes from a hypothetical of saying "Damn/jam/dim my eyes if they should compromise our fulcrum" to a a present / future tense reality of saying "watching me divide me."
His eyes haven't compromised the fulcrum.. at least not yet. That's why he says "IF." The eyes suggesting things he'd covet by eyesight. Flesh. Women. Material things.
(or "they" could represent other... people, needs, desires and things that could compromise their fulcrum.. but either way, yours doesn't work)

Moreover, if he did compromise the fulcrum, his eyes would be damned and jammed. So he really wouldn't be "watching" anything. You'll say he's "watching" himself leading up to the compromised fulcrum. If that's the case, then the last line would read "SO I might as well be gone." Not "then."

Moot point- he doesn't say "watching." But at least now you're up to speed.

Also, Breathe in Union x 4... then PRAY in union the last time.
He very clearly says that.

[swampyfool]

'piece of mind' is 'peace of mind'

'Silence! Legion say your praise in; Silently, just stay out of my way.'
- I think this is just wrong. The first line is ended in a preposition. You can't do that as the sentence/thought doesn't resolve. Not only that, but, 'say your praise in' just doesn't make any sense, even if you tack the 'silently' onto the end of the sentence.

Yeah, I did this at like 3:00 AM, and I just copied and pasted from the "lyrics" section of this forum and edited as I saw fit, but apparently I was too tired to do the job right. Definately "peace of mind" (I can't believe it says "piece" in this forum's version . . .). Let me try the ending refrain again . . .

Silence, Legion! Say your praise in
Silence! Legion- stay out of my way!

[swampyfool]

" I still hear some consinant there.*"

the missing letter is "s" ..."light our wayS..."

Very possible. Good call. Thanks.

[swampyfool]

Silently...both times.

if you try to sing this, starting at breathe in union x3. About the time you get to "silently just say your poison..." your running out of breath and I feel he takes one right in the middle of the next "silently"

I still don't and never have heard "silence legions" and at the expense of sounding immature, I still don't fathum what that means.

I think that if Maynard finished up th vocal track and realized that he had takes a breath in the middle of a word, he would rerecord it. I've got nothing to back that up other than the self-professed perfectionism of the band, but I find that to be pretty convincing.

I've never heard of a "Silence Legion" either. I wasn't using it as a proper title, but rather a command to Legion- like, "Hey Legion! Shutupayouface!" However, I'm still not convinced that this has to refer to the multi-faceted, pig-possesing demon vanquished by Jesus. There are certainly forces at work in this world that at times can seem like legions of evil, and Maynard may be commanding the agents of such legions to silence. I think that it works either way.

[ThreeDeviations]

Breathe in union (5x)
So, as one, survive
Another day and season.
Silence! Legion say your praise in
Silently, just stay out of my way.


Yeah, it's ironic... now THAT is the pot calling the kettle black.. Yeah, you must've been high. You're right about that much-

"Legion say your praise in?" It doesn't remotely sound like that... and it doesn't make sense either... (agreeing w Blanket Effect for once)

It's one of the following..

Silence Legion, save your poison.
Silence Legion, stay out of my way.

or

Silence Legion, save your poison
Silence leech and stay out of my way.

Legion being the devil's self-proclaimed name...

and a leech is a creature with one primary characteristic similar to the devil..
thriving on others to exist

[swampyfool]

SPO-

at 5:42, it certainly is either "shined on" forever or "shine down" forever.
(the Itunes player is slightly different than a traditional player.. say, your car stereo.. so if I said 5:38, instead of 5:42.. wooaa.. I'm sorry. It possibly even could've been a typo!) Obviously, I was explaining it was the first time he said "shined on/shine down/ forever." Afterall, nothing is said at 5:38. So a logical person would've assumed I was referring to the instance at 5:42.

It sounds most like "shined down" forever. I didn't sing it. Doesn't make grammatical sense? If it does say shined down.. and you have a problem with it.. it has nothing to do with me.

You go on to write out the whole "shine down/shine on" verse... totally unnecessary. The only part we disagree on is the first line.

OK, all timeline miscommunications aside, how do you reconcile the fact that the three other times that he says "shine down" in this section sounds completely different form the opening salvo? If he says "shine down" four times, wouldn't it stand to reason that it would sound the same- all four times?

Tense?
Yeah, "a key" is different than "the key." "A key" implies it's one of a few different variables that are important. "The key" suggests it's the end-all.
And if you're going to quote me.. I said, "one" key. You can at least get that right, can't you?

Maybe I wasn't clear in what I said. I concede that you said "a key," and not "the key." However, that really doesn't matter. Whether the key is alone or among friends, when you suggested that the lyric was "shined on," you proved that your copy of that key broke off in the lock a long time ago. It's funny, though. It's not just the fact that "shined" means "polished" and not "illuminated;" it's that using "shined" in that context applies the past tense as a condition of the eternal. That's just contradictory. Your key may have broken off in the lock, but that was so long ago that the resulting jagged edges have worn down to nearly imperceptible smoothness in the interim.

"I ain't fraid of no ghosts." No. There's nothing in that statement that suggests the person fears ghosts. Try again. "No sale." I understand what you were trying so desperately to say though... so no worries.

OK. Let's analyze this.

"I ain't afraid of no ghosts."
["Ain't" becomes am "not."]
"I am not afraid of no ghosts."
["Not" and "no" in the same sentence constitutes a double negative, and thus, in applications of meaning, they cancel one another out.]
"I am afraid of ghosts."
<Q.E.D.>
Of course, in the context of the well-loved, Ghostbuster's theme, the improper grammatical structure is rather insignificant- that music has no soul. However, when Maynard does it, it is not grammatically incorrect, because Maynard is asking . . .
"Why can't we not be sober?"
which becomes . . .
"Why must we be sober?"
. . . and that satisfies the intended meaning.

I've got other shit to do at the moment (manage your ego- I'm not ignoring you), so maybe I'll pick up the pitchfork again and start clearing up the mess of bullshit you've deposited all over this thread.

[benjamin]

I think that if Maynard finished up th vocal track and realized that he had takes a breath in the middle of a word, he would rerecord it. I've got nothing to back that up other than the self-professed perfectionism of the band, but I find that to be pretty convincing..

I totally agree, cept, for my point I'll just say that the breath may be ill placed but he maybe just thought, to overdoub, would be disingenuin(sp)...??

Eventhough on Lateralus(title track) he states quite a runnon sentence
"With my feet...." I don't hear a break for breath there for like two minuites.

[ThreeDeviations]

For example, "I ain't afraid of no ghosts," actually implies that the speaker does fear ghosts; when the intention is to imply that no such fear exists.

Wrong again.

"I ain't fraid of no ghosts" does not IMPLY the person fears ghosts.

IMPLY being the operative word.

If a person in the ghetto said "I ain't afraid of no ghosts." You wouldn't say to them, "oh, so actually, you're afraid of ghosts!?" (Unless you wanted to get jacked up)

Of course after you consider the double negative, the MEANING, not the IMPLICATION, may change... That has never been disputed. It's your poor word selection which makes what you have to say just plain wrong... It's unfortunate.

Let's look at some definitions... www.dictionary.com

IMPLY - 1. to indicate or suggest without being explicitly stated: His words implied a lack of faith.

EXPLICITLY - 1. fully and clearly expressed or demonstrated; LEAVING NOTHING MERELY IMPLIED; UNEQUIVOCAL:

In case you're lost, when you have to explicitly break something down to understand it... "imply" no longer works.

So when you say "I ain't afraid of no ghosts" IMPLIES the person fears ghosts. That's just wrong.

Imply and Explicit... opposites..

and your word selection of "actually implies"... that's close to being an oxymoron, teach.

Why can't you not be foolish?

[benjamin]

Heffin<<

Here from the king's mountain view I feast like a sultan on treasures and flesh, never few.

Here from the wild dream come true I feast like a sultan on treasures and flesh, never few.

Those are what we'd call complete sentences/thoughts.

Heaven, the king's mountain view I feast like a sultan on treasures and flesh, never few.
Heaven, the wild dream come true I feast like a sultan on treasures and flesh, never few.

Neither of those are complete thoughts or sentences. The first verse is one continuous thought/sentence, albeit a run-on sentence. The 'Feast like a sultan' part is a continuation from the prior lines, not an independent clause. It's enhancing.

So he's feasting like a sultan here from the -king's mountain view/wild dream come true-.

Tool is very deep, but don't over-complicate it unnecessarily. Ocham's Razor - two things being of equal liklihood, the simpler is usually the correct answer. Use your logic and reason.

I bet it's fun assembling the song however you want, butt "Feast like a sultain, I do." sertainly can be it's own sentence. With the first 2 being seperate.
Even the next line "On treasures and flesh never few." can be it's own sentence, in which case 'on' becomes the verb.

As for: Heaven, the wild dream come true I feast like a sultain on treasures and flesh, never few
Well I never wrote that, you did. My translation of the words may not fit the form of prose that YOU chose for the song. But unless you happened to enlighten Maynard also beforhand, as to how the lines shall relate to each other. I think it's you who seems to be reaching.

Still I conceed, your interpritation makes complete, complicated, sense

[swampyfool]

Wrong again.

"I ain't fraid of no ghosts" does not IMPLY the person fears ghosts.

IMPLY being the operative word.

If a person in the ghetto said "I ain't afraid of no ghosts." You wouldn't say to them, "oh, so actually, you're afraid of ghosts!?" (Unless you wanted to get jacked up)

Of course after you consider the double negative, the MEANING, not the IMPLICATION, may change... That has never been disputed. It's your poor word selection which makes what you have to say just plain wrong... It's unfortunate.

Let's look at some definitions... www.dictionary.com

IMPLY - 1. to indicate or suggest without being explicitly stated: His words implied a lack of faith.

EXPLICITLY - 1. fully and clearly expressed or demonstrated; LEAVING NOTHING MERELY IMPLIED; UNEQUIVOCAL:

In case you're lost, when you have to explicitly break something down to understand it... "imply" no longer works.

So when you say "I ain't afraid of no ghosts" IMPLIES the person fears ghosts. That's just wrong.

Imply and Explicit... opposites..

and your word selection of "actually implies"... that's close to being an oxymoron, teach.

Why can't you not be foolish?

I'm really glad that you love to split hairs. The fact of the matter is that when you use the word "imply" when speaking from a grammatical frame of reference, you are talking about implications in accordance with the rules of grammar. Rules upon which you should stop trying to pontificate.

If a person in the ghetto said "I ain't afraid of no ghosts." You wouldn't say to them, "oh, so actually, you're afraid of ghosts!?" (Unless you wanted to get jacked up) . . ? Spoken like a person who's only experience of the ghetto comes form network news and state-sponsored fear-mongering. Go get yourself some good ol' fashioned, visceral experience and stop talking shit about people you don't know.

Your definitional semantics remind me of another famous troll who's inability to separate himself from his preconcieved, black-and-white notions of the world led to your exact brand of arrogance. You both refuse to acknowledge that shifting contexts require shifting definitions and shifting applications. It's as if red and yellow never came to be for you and Submachine- but don't despair, you're doing him proud. As much fun as your little games have been, I'm gettin' kinda tired of the redundancy and the monotony. Spiral outward- for the inward path holds ruination and rot- and your tunnel vision may yet be cured.

<Fading back into tacit contempt>

[ThreeDeviations]

I'm really glad that you love to split hairs. The fact of the matter is that when you use the word "imply" when speaking from a grammatical frame of reference, you are talking about implications in accordance with the rules of grammar. Rules upon which you should stop trying to pontificate.

If a person in the ghetto said "I ain't afraid of no ghosts." You wouldn't say to them, "oh, so actually, you're afraid of ghosts!?" (Unless you wanted to get jacked up) . . ? Spoken like a person who's only experience of the ghetto comes form network news and state-sponsored fear-mongering. Go get yourself some good ol' fashioned, visceral experience and stop talking shit about people you don't know.

another famous troll.

How did you know I was famous? Merely infamous on here...

I am merely pointing out the obvious... Paralyzing you with your own ammunition... You were wrong. You call it a euphemism for "splitting hairs." That's cute.

Fact of the matter? Facts don't lie. You were wrong. You of all people should know that. You do know it...

Heed your own lame quote..

If you can't take it, don't dish it. And if you're gonna dish it, quit your whining when you take it.

Seriously, I had a lot of fun with you.

The Q.E.D., I am sure they would've let that one slide... they have you well trained.

Stay. Sit!

[spacemonkeyadb]

To Benjamin:

"Here from" not "Heaven". (There is no "v")

Phonetically, not "Heffin" but rather "Hefrim".

By meaning, the use of "heaven" would mean that the initial lyrics merely describe heaven (and how would that be relevant to the song?), whereas "Here from" means these lyrics describe the lifestyle that MJK is actually coming from - much more relevant to the theme of the song.

[swampyfool]

"On treasures and flesh never few." can be it's own sentence, in which case 'on' becomes the verb.

How does one on? "On" is not a verb- not ever.

[benjamin]

How does one on? "On" is not a verb- not ever.

lol, no one does not, on.

"Hellow, sir. Did you eat well this evening?"

"Yes, I had a feast."

"I see. On what, do tell, did you have the pleasure of feasting upon?"

"On treasures and flesh, never few."
^^
Go on.
Feast on.
Piss on.
Beat on.

The verbs here are all obvious, but if you omit the proper verb, and use 'on' in a response refering to the original comment, THEN ON BECOMES A VERB. Because EVERY sentance in the english language MUST contain one. And I'm very sorry I don't know the EXACT definition. I'll just call it a bullshit "subverb", when used in this context
My only point (in calling on a verb) anyway, was to explain that, "On treasures and flesh never few." could be it's own sentence. Not a summary ending of both previous lines.

[spacemonkeyadb]

^ Ha, No. "On treasures & flesh...". There is no verb. The verb is implied. "On" is, was, and always will be a preposition (& yes, I AM an English teacher). Also, the implied verb is very obviously "feast" from the previous lyric.

Benjamin. you seem intent on interpreting things in the way that makes the least possible sense. If you disagree with BlanketEffect's breakdown of the initial lyrics, could you explain how you think they work?

[BlanketEffect]

^ Ha, No. "On treasures & flesh...". There is no verb. The verb is implied. "On" is, was, and always will be a preposition (& yes, I AM an English teacher). Also, the implied verb is very obviously "feast" from the previous lyric.

Benjamin. you seem intent on interpreting things in the way that makes the least possible sense. If you disagree with BlanketEffect's breakdown of the initial lyrics, could you explain how you think they work?

Yes

"On treasures and flesh, never few" is a sentence fragment. There is a part of it that is not wriiten but that is implied. The full, correct interaction would be,

"Hellow, sir. Did you eat well this evening?"

"Yes, I had a feast."

"I see. On what, do tell, did you have the pleasure of feasting upon?"

" on treasures and flesh, never few." ('I feasted' is the independent clause made up of the sentence's subject and verb - 'on treasures and flesh...' is a prepositional phrase, or, dependant clause. It cannot be grammatically sustained without the implied independent clause.)

"On" describes or rather, gives location the clause. WHAT did you do on treasures and flesh? WHAT=I feasted like a Sultan. - The 'what' is being implied.

As Spacemonkey said, 'on' is, was, and will forever be, a preposition. It is *never* a verb.

Oh, and I am most emphatically [i]not an English teacher.

[Terry21]

Why are you guys keep inventing stuff?

On treasures and flesh never few = In the life of a king, there's never few on treasures and flesh.

[PhiRatio]

Yes, Maynard does bend words to his purpose. I'll concede that it could be psalm (I think that I already did) depending on the inferred context. To me, it just seems strange that Maynard would consider any of his personal works to be a "psalm," given his opinion toward the institutions that coined the term. My problem is that you rule out "song" without even the paltry benefit of prejudice. "Song" works, and I personally hear neither the "L," nor the "M." So I have to say it is best to remain open to both until Maynard gives us the canon- if he does. For my money, "song" makes better sense, but that's just one man's opinion . . .

PRAY like a martyr dusk till dawn
Beg like a hooker all night long

look at the words "martyr" and "hooker" ...

a martyr will willing suffer any pain or even die before renouncing their religion. a hooker sells their abilities, talents, or names for an "unworthy" purpose, whether it be money or whatever other form of self satisfaction you can think of, so it's "worthy" to them as an individual. when you think about it, a martyr is sort of similar to a hooker. a martyr will, in essence, prostitute their self for god and their religion. both are begging for what the deem most worthy and will do whatever it takes to have it. no pain, suffering or self-degradation will hold them back.

a martyr prays like a hooker begs.

Now think about the words "pray" and "beg" ...

"pray" makes sense there, so does "beg" ... beg is a synonym for pray.

now look at the words "dusk till dawn" and "all night long" ... those are the same thing. both encompass the night time hours ...

those two lines mean essentially the same thing ... there is nothing he won't do to have what he wants.

basically, "brave" makes no sense there to me (SPO, i know you didn’t say it was “brave,” but to those who did.) martyrs are not brave, they fear judgement at death and will sacrifice their earthly life to insure they get what they want in the afterlife. most of the time, a martyr makes the choice to die in the name of his religion, because they are promised great rewards for their service in the afterlife. a martyr is like a hooker.

SHAFTED the devil with my PSALM
and got what I wanted all along

a psalm is a song of praise, he gave his praise to the thing most important to him and screwed the devil over. he got what he wanted because he's willing to do anything to get it, and since he has it, he's going to show praise to it anyway he can, because it's his everything. this thing is as important to him as heaven is to a martyr or money is to a hooker.



On the topic of om (sorry if I misspelled that earlier . . .); while it is a term of Buddhist origin, it is also applied to secular meditation- and I would argue that this word has closer and more common affiliation to a secular connotation than does "psalm." Furthermore, in the context of the Indonesian theme (the vehicle that Maynard uses to relate his own experience while it provides perspective, in my opinion), "om" is granted extra creedence. Indonesia is now mainly Muslim, but historically, Buddhism played a significant role in the shaping of these cultures. The people of Jambi consider themselves to be Muslim, but many of their traditions are holdovers from the past. They are relatively unique in that respect among Indonesians. In the research that I have done, many of these holdover traditions that are at odds with Islamic dogma seem pretty Buddhist, but I'm not really knowledgeable enough about Buddhism to say for sure.

I do know that Buddhism and Hinduism share ideologies and geneses in much the same way that the Abrahamic faiths do. I also know that there are vast geographical borders that exist between pockets of heavy Islamic concentrations and pockets of heavy Hindi or Buddhist concentrations throughout Asia. Along these borders, there exist cultures that blend aspects of both ideologies in their rligious practices. For example, the Sufi Muslims of Asia Minor (Turkey)- known as "whirling dervishes" for the circular dances they use to induce a trance-like, meditative state- apply Vedic (Hindu) concepts of meditation in their worship of Allah. Thus, it follows that there is precedent for a Muslim culture that incorporates Buddhist concepts like "om." And thus, it follows that in using the tragic story of the fall of Jambi as a vehicle to tell his own stories, the word "om" might very well appear when referencing an entity of significance.



Hmmmmmmm . . .

1. Jambi is the name of a region in Indonesia.
2. Jambi is mountainous, here from the king's mountain view.
3. Jambi was ruled by sultans; I imagine that they feasted.
4. Jambi was divided into two kingdoms after the Dutch invaded, the upper ruled by Taha, the lower by the Dutch; and divided, they were withering away, waiting for the sun to shine on 'til the two became one.

Keep talking- the sound of flatulence amuses me.


you and this indonesian theme. great research, bad theory … rise and fall of jambi. I just can’t agree.

The song is full of mythology references, specifically the Roman Apollo.

dim my eyes
jambi eyes
dim my eyes if they should compromise our fulcrum. wants and needs divide me then I might as well be gone...

Shine down forever
Shine on benevolent Sun
Shine down upon the broken, shine until the two become one.

Shine on forever. Shine on benevolent Sun.
Shine down upon the severed, shine until the two become one.


Divided I'm withering away.
Divided I'm withering away.

Shine down upon the many, light our ways, benevolent Sun.

Breathe in union
Breathe in union
Breathe in union
Breathe in union

PRAY in union

so,
as one,
survive another day AND season

silence legion, save your poison
silence legion, stay out of my way.

dim his eyes from the things that tempt him, the devil, the things that could separate him from the thing he deems most important. he doesn't want anything to confuse his wants and needs, once his wants are confused and he sees them as needs then he thinks this connection will be broken and there is nothing that is worth breaking that connection. so, from now on, he only wants what he needs.

think about the things the sun symbolizes in paganism and the parallels with the roman god apollo. i think that people have a tendency to think the wrong thing when they hear words that connote religion in this song. but, i think it's beautiful how he was able to use the religious connotations and the parallels with the roman mythology. it really shows on a multifaceted layer how much he cares about this important thing. apollo had the power to heal the broken ... he's asking to be healed.

everything that apollo stands for is what he's trying to convey in this song. he is the god of the sun. the sun is the bringer of the dawn. the sun shines beaming lights of healing, optimism, and warmth. he even uses the word benevolent. he wants the sun to shine down on him and unite him with what's important.
the whole dichotomy going on throughout the song .. the half way point where the tone and music changes, and just the general struggle between good and bad, dark and light, etc ... it's a good comparison to draw against the devil and his dark side, comparing it to the sun and all it's light, everything it stands for.

sorry, but there is NO WAY he’s trying to draw a parallel between the rise and fall of jambi and the personal experience he is trying to relay.

so, he tells the story from where he is "here from" and the light he has found (in maybe the birth of his son) ... tells about how he will martyr himself, prostitute himself, basically there is nothing he won't do to uphold the connection and he sees it so clearly. he wants to keep his focus there and not become distracted by anything else.

now ... they only thing left is the title. jambi.

jambi is a character from pee wee's playhouse, as everyone else has already pointed out. he appears solely as a disembodied head in a gilded box, and perks up whenever pee-wee or anyone else says a sentence with the word "wish" in it, and says "wish? did somebody say wish?" then after the supplicant makes his or her request, jambi, with a humorously somber tone, asks the supplicant to repeat after him, in a magic spell in the ancient language of "jambese."

he usually says after granting the wish: "the wish is granted. long live jambi."

The title has NOTHING to do with Jambi, Indonesia. The song has NOTHING to do with Jambi, Indonesia.

maybe the writers for pee wee's playhouse named the genie "jambi" because the show had an indonesian theme. yeah.

[swampyfool]

Hey Phi. You know, the first time I read the suggestion that this song had some connection to the history of Indonesian Jambi, I thought that it was far-fetched, too. But this song- being my favorite on the album- was the reason that I joined an online forum in the first place. I began to type "Jambi" into as many search engines as I could. The more I read about the Sultanate of Jambi, the more I saw connections to the lyrics. This may just be semantics, but for the record, I only assert that this song tells of the fall of Jambi (and not the rise). To me, the song isn't really about Jambi, rather, the song makes reference to this historical struggle in order to set a universal and collective frame of reference for telling his own stories. By shedding brief light upon how the indigenous culture of Jambi was backed into a corner, and then by telling us how he feels backed into a corner; Maynard is able to draw parallel between all tragedies, thus painting tragedy as a human condition agaist which we must unite.

I know that you have suggested the theme of his son, and this theme is not tragic on its face. However, in asserting such a connection to his son, there is an implied tragedy waiting just around the corner. He fears being separated from his son, in fact he would do anything to prevent that separation. The impending tragedy has backed him into a corner; a corner from which he will pray like a martyr, beg like a hooker and wish it all away in order to protect himself from such a situation. But he also is protecting his son from such a separation- an agony that Maynard knows all too well.

Which then leads us into another relationship that had a bearing on this song, the one between himself and Judith Marie. This song talks about division, and is placed on the album directly before the title tracks (undisputedly Maynard's lament for his mother). Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the genesis of the thought that this song is about Maynard and Devo comes from the "benevolent son" section. But if you start that line of thinking inserting Mayanrd as the benevolent son, by extension, the general themes of division and wishing it all away fall into place rather neatly around Maynard's separation from his mother.

Now, as for your idea that references to the sun are Roman/pagan, I really think you're being a bit short-sighted. Every culture from the dawn of history has revered the sun as a mystical giver of life, not just the Romans; so it seems a bit hasty to attribute the benevolent sun directly and solely to Appolo. In fact, there is an interesting bit of information that I picked up about Jambi and the benevolent son right here on this forum a while back. Check this out. (http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2006/6/2/23729/31305) I know that it's long winded, so I'll summarize it (though I reccomend reading it all, at some point). When a new ruler was to be named in Jambi, he needed to be associated more closely to the local deities. So, somebody was chosen to represent the ruler-to-be. This person was elevated to the rank of ruler-for-the-day, and he ruled for the day. At the end of this day, this person was then sacrificed to the deities in place of the ruler-to-be- but since the sacrificed person had been the ruler for the day in the name of the true ruler-to-be, it was as if they were sacrificing that ruler to the gods, by connection. However, as time went on, the ritual changed, and the ruler-for-a-day who was to be sacrificed became the ruler-to-be's son. So, before a ruler took the throne, he sacrificed his own son to the gods in order to connect himself with deity. Aside from being a more brutal version of the Christian Holy Trinity (connecting father, son and holy spirit), it gives a local meaning to "shine on forever; shine on, benevolent [son/sun]." If the son was not sacrificed, then the sun would not favor them.

But seriously, read more about the history of provincial Jambi (it can be a bit hard to find- not much is writen) and I am confident that you will see the undeniable connection between title, lyrics, and Indonesia.

[swampyfool]

And it just, categorically is NOT "JAMBI EYES." It just isn't.

[benjamin]

Yes

"On treasures and flesh, never few" is a sentence fragment. There is a part of it that is not wriiten but that is implied. The full, correct interaction would be,

"Hellow, sir. Did you eat well this evening?"

"Yes, I had a feast."

"I see. On what, do tell, did you have the pleasure of feasting upon?"

" on treasures and flesh, never few." ('I feasted' is the independent clause made up of the sentence's subject and verb - 'on treasures and flesh...' is a prepositional phrase, or, dependant clause. It cannot be grammatically sustained without the implied independent clause.)

"On" describes or rather, gives location the clause. WHAT did you do on treasures and flesh? WHAT=I feasted like a Sultan. - The 'what' is being implied.

As Spacemonkey said, 'on' is, was, and will forever be, a preposition. It is *never* a verb.

Oh, and I am most emphatically [i]not an English teacher.





Sweet lord, the clarity is blinding!

It was my intension to imply that, on, being a presper..presppupup...prepositionaly..phrased ..... I don't know. My point is I thought it could somehow "represent" or "count as" a verb. Thus making said line a complete sentence.

My guess is, this was only slightly more inteligent than thinking "on is a verb" which I don't and tried (in vein) not to convey(sp).

[ThreeDeviations]

No prophet could hold sway or justify my DEALING. AWAKE my center/sinner.

or

No prophet could hone, sway or justify my DEALING. AWAKE my center/sinner.

This line/song is still a work in progress... but this is the latest.



and it is Jam-bi eyes.

damn
jam
dim


Words like "king, sultan, feast, treasures and mountain view"... those words are chosen to convey the lifestyle Tool has afforded him to lead.. or could lead if he chose to.

"Butler, maids, pool boy, Ferrari and personal chef"... these words just aren't the same are they.....
even though their implication IS.

This is Tool.

Not LL Cool J.

[BlanketEffect]

This is Tool.

Not LL Cool J.

Word.


But I do believe there is an intentional correlation between the title as it refers to the genie as well as the Indonesian imagery. I would imagine that the lyrics started off as something to do with 'the wish' or the supporting ideas/elements and maybe a joke around the table about 'Jambi' the genie granting the wish... or whatever, I hope you get the general idea I'm trying to suggest.

So Maynard hears Jambi and knows maybe at least a miniscule amount about the Indonesian province and some of its history (he's well-read, right?) and looks to the history books (figuratively speaking) for inspiration for other imagery in the lyrics for the song. Hey, if we can find plenty of correlations then why couldn't he?

So it started as a reference to one and then lead to the inclusion of the other. I don't think that this is that radical of an idea to be likely similar to the way it happened.

Of course, I wasn't there, and I didn't watch him write the lyrics, but it makes a lot of sense.

[PhiRatio]

SPO ... you are undeniably the king of the search engine. i have entered "jambi" into several search engines as well. i'm no history buff, in fact i had never heard of jambi, indonesia until the release of this album. i'm curious, had you?

you call me short-sighted? ha. YOU took the tilte of the song, did some lengthy research on some obscure indonesian province, made the lyrics fit on the surface and expelled this intelligent sounding analysis. i think your idea is entertaining. you have some great thoughts. but, to say i am being short-sighted when you simply took the title of the song and typed it into search engine after search engine, and then created your interpretation around it, is just plain silly.

ever stopped to consider that he may have written this song before titling it? i'd say that's a safe bet. i just can't see it unfolding any other way. he wrote this masterpiece of a song and then had to give it a title. with all this talk about wishing, he thought of jambi the genie. it's that simple. i find it extremely farfetched that it happened any other way. if he was using the history of jambi, indonesia to help convey the message of the song as you suggest, he would have had to have that in mind from the get go. He would have sat down with a pen and paper, wrote the word “jambi” at the top with a double underline and went from there.

i just don't think that's plausible.

so, think twice before you say it's me who's short-sighted. you've done nothing but try to interpret the TITLE of the song. try actually interpreting the song itself as if there were no title, because i think it's safe to say the title came last.

like threedeviations said “king, sultan, feast, treasures and mountain view"... are words he chose to describe how his life is fir for a king because of his success. They are not words he chose to tell us to help build a connection to the sultan of jambi.

i don’t see that the song implies a tragedy, now or in the future. i think that is something you came up with and then backed up with smart sounding historical fact to make your interpretation fit. he is joyous in the song, he has overcome the dark things in his life, he has a new understanding of what’s important to him and he will not let himself be divided from it. the song illustartes a dichotomy between dark and light, not an impending tragedy.

what you said about his mother, that’s interesting. i’ll think about it.

so, I guess this is the point where i am supposed to link you to all the mythology stuff I pulled up in my little quest for understanding … I hate calling it a “theme” … but if there is one, it’s the birth of his son (maybe the mother thing) and the mythology thing (APOLLO) like I’ve already said.

here is a myth about apollo’s son heremes that you may find interesting. i understand that it doesn’t relate directly to this song, but just read it. I’m not going to link you to a billion things that will educate you on apollo because you are the search engine king and you can do it yourself if you are interested in understanding the “theme” of this song. plus, you already know the basics of apollo and what the sun stands for, because that’s the point at which you called me short-sighted. the mythology refrences in this song are so obvious when you actually look at the lyrics and listen to the music, and forget all about the title for a second, it's probably almost painful for you to think about how you read voulmes on the history of jambi, indonesia for nothing.

hermes was born on mt. cyllene in arcadia. the story is told in the homeric hymn to hermes. his mother, maia, had been secretly impregnated by zeus, in a secret affair. maia wrapped the infant in blankets but hermes escaped while she was asleep. hermes ran to thessaly, where apollo was grazing his cattle. the infant hermes stole a number of his cows and took them to a cave in the woods near pylos, covering their tracks. in the cave, he found a tortoise and killed it, then removed the insides. he used one of the cow’s intestines and the tortoise shell and made the first lyre. apollo complained to maia that her son had stolen his cattle, but Hermes had already replaced himself in the blankets she had wrapped him in, so Maia refused to believe apollo's claim. zeus intervened and, claiming to have seen the events, sided with apollo. hermes then began to play music on the lyre he had invented. apollo, a god of music, fell in love with the instrument and offered to allow exchange of the cattle for the lyre. hence, apollo became a master of the lyre and hermes invented a kind of pipes-instrument called a syrinx.
"later, apollo exchanged a caduceus for a syrinx from Hermes."

and, you know that mjk's winery is called caduceus.

that’s all I have for you tonight, SPO.

the wish is granted. long live jambi. (the genie, not the sultan or the province.)

[PhiRatio]

And it just, categorically is NOT "JAMBI EYES." It just isn't.

it goes ...

dim
jambi
dim

or

dim
jambi
damn

i'm quite certain.

"it just isn't" isn't going to do it for me.

categorically why not?

i bet you it went dim, dim, dim .. or whatever combo of dim and damn you want to throw out there until he came up with the title (which happened last) ... then he threw in the "jambi" ...

or, i like this idea:

SPO-

He does say "Jam-bi eyes." "Bi" meaning two. Esentially the same way of saying "Jam my two eyes."

[swampyfool]

SPO ... you are undeniably the king of the search engine. i have entered "jambi" into several search engines as well. i'm no history buff, in fact i had never heard of jambi, indonesia until the release of this album. i'm curious, had you?

you call me short-sighted? ha. YOU took the tilte of the song, did some lengthy research on some obscure indonesian province, made the lyrics fit on the surface and expelled this intelligent sounding analysis. i think your idea is entertaining. you have some great thoughts. but, to say i am being short-sighted when you simply took the title of the song and typed it into search engine after search engine, and then created your interpretation around it, is just plain silly.

I am far from the "king of the search engine," and I can't even begin to fathom how you came up with this notion of how I arrived at my interpretation of the song. I clearly stated that when I was introduced to the idea (i.e. this wasn't initially my interpretation, I didn't start from the title, as you speculate) that this song was somehow connected with some obscure and archaic Indonesian sultanate, I found it rediculous. But then, some people showed me some information on the topic that lent this ludicrous notion some credibility. Only then did I begin to independently research the history of provincial Jambi. So simmer down, fireball.

ever stopped to consider that he may have written this song before titling it? i'd say that's a safe bet. i just can't see it unfolding any other way. he wrote this masterpiece of a song and then had to give it a title. with all this talk about wishing, he thought of jambi the genie. it's that simple. i find it extremely farfetched that it happened any other way. if he was using the history of jambi, indonesia to help convey the message of the song as you suggest, he would have had to have that in mind from the get go. He would have sat down with a pen and paper, wrote the word “jambi” at the top with a double underline and went from there.

i just don't think that's plausible.

so, think twice before you say it's me who's short-sighted. you've done nothing but try to interpret the TITLE of the song. try actually interpreting the song itself as if there were no title, because i think it's safe to say the title came last.

Yes, I have considered that- and I haven't dismissed it (as you have the other). There are millions of different ways that a song can come together- and I may be selling that figure short. It is entirely possible that in the five years that passed between Lateralus and 10,000 Days, every song on the latter album was revised and rerevised as the creative process was applied and reapplied. It is also entirely possible that Maynard did know the history of provincial Jambi, and wrote the song accordingly. Earlier, you asked if I had ever heard of Indonesian Jambi before this album came out, and the answer is no. That doesn't mean Maynard hadn't. People who make a habit of reading tend to know a lot of obscure shit; they also tend to enjoy conversation with other people who make a habit of reading because it's a good way to exchange knowledge and perspective pertaining to obscure, historical shit. I'm sure that any number of people in this forum have read things that Maynard never has, and I'm equally sure that Maynard has read things that we never have.

Bottom line: I don't claim to know how the song was writen (as you do), but I'm relatively sure that at some point in the process Maynard incorporated the theme of Indonesian Jambi. There are just too many parallels between the lyrics and the history for it to have been accidental. They have been laid out by myself and others with great frequency, so I'll not rehash them all right now.

like threedeviations said “king, sultan, feast, treasures and mountain view"... are words he chose to describe how his life is fir for a king because of his success. They are not words he chose to tell us to help build a connection to the sultan of jambi.

Yeah, and trolls will be trolls. As a follow up to "king," he could have said "czar," or "khan," or "rajah," or "kaiser," or "pasha," or "caliph . . . " His choice of sultan is thus of possible significance. Again, I don't feel compeled to relist all of the lyrical supports for this connection. Suffice it to say that Maynard has proven himself an articulate wordsmith; and so when he chooses one word where he could have chosen another, it is reasonable to assume that he has done so with purpose. Again, there are just too many connections extant to warrant your outright dismissal.

i don’t see that the song implies a tragedy, now or in the future. i think that is something you came up with and then backed up with smart sounding historical fact to make your interpretation fit. he is joyous in the song, he has overcome the dark things in his life, he has a new understanding of what’s important to him and he will not let himself be divided from it. the song illustartes a dichotomy between dark and light, not an impending tragedy.

Really? No tragedy? While I agree that this song illustrates a dichotomy between dark and light (very well put), I still maintain that an affectation of impending tragedy is manifest. He speaks to what seems to be a very real potential for loss. "If I thought I'd lose you just one day . . . If I thought tomorrow would take you away." Maynard has a reason to think in such a way, as his mother was taken from him (for all intents and purposes) at the young age of eleven. In much the same way as the thirty-seven year-old man who's father had a fatal heart attack at age thirty-seven might be anxious about an impending tragedy; so too might Maynard be experiencing anxiety about the potential for repetition of his familiar past (wasn't Devo born in '95- making him eleven, now?).

so, I guess this is the point where i am supposed to link you to all the mythology stuff I pulled up in my little quest for understanding … I hate calling it a “theme” … but if there is one, it’s the birth of his son (maybe the mother thing) and the mythology thing (APOLLO) like I’ve already said.

here is a myth about apollo’s son heremes that you may find interesting. i understand that it doesn’t relate directly to this song, but just read it. I’m not going to link you to a billion things that will educate you on apollo because you are the search engine king and you can do it yourself if you are interested in understanding the “theme” of this song. plus, you already know the basics of apollo and what the sun stands for, because that’s the point at which you called me short-sighted. the mythology refrences in this song are so obvious when you actually look at the lyrics and listen to the music, and forget all about the title for a second, it's probably almost painful for you to think about how you read voulmes on the history of jambi, indonesia for nothing.

hermes was born on mt. cyllene in arcadia. the story is told in the homeric hymn to hermes. his mother, maia, had been secretly impregnated by zeus, in a secret affair. maia wrapped the infant in blankets but hermes escaped while she was asleep. hermes ran to thessaly, where apollo was grazing his cattle. the infant hermes stole a number of his cows and took them to a cave in the woods near pylos, covering their tracks. in the cave, he found a tortoise and killed it, then removed the insides. he used one of the cow’s intestines and the tortoise shell and made the first lyre. apollo complained to maia that her son had stolen his cattle, but Hermes had already replaced himself in the blankets she had wrapped him in, so Maia refused to believe apollo's claim. zeus intervened and, claiming to have seen the events, sided with apollo. hermes then began to play music on the lyre he had invented. apollo, a god of music, fell in love with the instrument and offered to allow exchange of the cattle for the lyre. hence, apollo became a master of the lyre and hermes invented a kind of pipes-instrument called a syrinx.
"later, apollo exchanged a caduceus for a syrinx from Hermes."

and, you know that mjk's winery is called caduceus.

I appreciate this myth, yet I fail to see anyhing in it that links the song's mention of "benevolent [sun/son]" exclusively to Greco-Roman mythology. Most deities had sons, and most deities linked to the sun had sons. Furthermore, in this story, Hermes is not exactly painted as "benevolent-" cattle rustler that he was. The fact is that the benevolence of the sun is as archetypal as the life-giving nature of water. The large majority of human culture has revered the sun. I still say that you are being short-sighted by linking this song exclusively to Appolo.

As for "Jambi Eyes," if you think that the song is named for Peewee's genie, then why would he change the pronunciation from "Jahm-bee" to "Jam-bye?" If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit.

Oh, and "Jam bi (as in two) eyes?" Are you serious? Why on earth would he say that? "Bi-" is a prefix that means "two," and is categorically not a word with the same meaning. But let's just ignore that fact for a moment. Even if "bi" was a stand-alone word meaning two, what is gained by using it? You must admit that it is a very awkward and unprecedented construction. As the troll says, "jam bi eyes" would mean "jam my two eyes;" That has the same meaning of "jam my eyes-" only "jam my eyes" isn't awkward, isn't unprecedented, and (taking the bit about "bi" not being a word off the back burner) doesn't include a word that isn't a word. Maybe he wants to jam all the eyes in the world that lust after men and women.

[swampyfool]

All of that said, if you want to continue this debate, start a thread in the Jambi sub-forum. We really should stop taking up so much space in the lyrical discussion with thematic analysis.

[PhiRatio]

Pee Wee and his Genie fuckin' ROCK. Don't knock that shit. And I'm sorry that you live in Iowa, too. You should get off that sinking ship.

yeah.

[swampyfool]

yeah.
What?

[ThreeDeviations]

ridculous.

Regarding the possibilty of the song's meaning being synonmous with Jambi, Indonesia...

You say..

"Some people showed me some information on the topic that lent this ludicrous notion some credibility."

Really? What credibility? What information did they give you? Your 5 words again? Joke. "Sultan, feast, king, mountain and treasure?" Ya know... now that I think about it... I think this song was inspired by Indiana Jones. Better yet, I think it's about Indiana Jones and one of his crazy adventures. Divided, he's withering away from the loss of his monkey friend. (can I say, "monkey friend" without being Hitler)

There is no credibility. Merely short-sightedness. You're so anal that you can't see the forest for the trees.

(The troll would be humored to hear of all this credibility though)

Phi Ratio says, "ever stopped to consider that he may have written this song before titling it? i'd say that's a safe bet." What was your hero's quote? "If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit!" Ha. Seems logical enough to me Phi.. very good point. What was Blanket boy saying about Ockham's Razor? mmhmm

"the maxim that assumptions introduced to explain a thing must not be multiplied beyond necessity."

Seems pretty applicable here.

Not that Phi Ratio needs any help.. He/she's certainly proven to be more than a formidable person to retort your anal nonsense.. but get your anal shit straight. PhiRatio said "ever stopped to consider that he may have written this song before titling it? i'd say that's a safe bet." Then of course you go on to say that you've certainly already considered that possibility and blah blah blah.. (which is likely bullshit) The point is, you put in parenthesis that Phi ruled out a possibility of the title coming first. Which is just wrong again. Phi said it's a "safe bet" the song was written first. Sure, Phi says, "I can't see it unfolding any other way"... but she left a window cracked for the unlikely possibility that the title came before writing it. What seems more likely to you? I guess Ockham's Razor is the theme of the day, Razor boy.

Most people dont need some lame maxim by William of Ockham in order to remove their head from their ass. (not that I'm assuming you'll finally remove yours)

"Revised and rerevised and applied and reapplied?" So that's what you're going to hang your hat on? (does it really need to be pointed out that they're thorough?)

and of course you say, there's a "possibility" that maynard possibly could've somehow known of Jambi, the place, before writing the lyrics. Yeah, right. Sure it's possible. Is it likely... for even the well-read Maynard? No.

"Outright dismissal?" Phi entirely dismissed it? I doubt that... probably left a minuscule crack in the window. Ya know, the same crack you're hangin your hat on.

You say, "As for "Jambi Eyes," if you think that the song is named for Peewee's genie, then why would he change the pronunciation from "Jahm-bee" to "Jam-bye?"

He'd change the pronunciation because it's Tool's song. Maynard is singing. It's likely that it's about his son. He can twist the pronunciation of some ficticious genie and it shouldn't make someone scratch their head in disapproval or confusion... not even for an anal, literal, OC clown like yourself.

Of course he says Jam-bi eyes... because he says "DIM MY EYES" and "DAMN MY EYES" between it... it wouldn't sound right if he didn't. Phi had another very LOGICAL point... he probably had written it as "dim, dim, dim." Considering all this "wishing".. he logically thought of a genie... and since the song is likely about his kid... what better choice than to use a genie from a child's program? He came up with Jambi.. then found that an appropriate place to subtely incorporate the title into the song... even if it is somewhat tongue-in-cheek. You're so fixated on "bi" not being a word. Which is likely the same reason you assume it's referring to Jambi the place, rather than Jambi the genie. "Because Jambi just isn't a word unless it's referring to the place!" Is Lateralus in the dictionary?

Your eyes may be fine, but you'd be better off with braille.

[ThreeDeviations]

Feast LIKE a sultan I do.

ask yourself

Is the intent to emphasize how, or who...

[swampyfool]

Probably both.

[PhiRatio]

Hmmmmmmm . . .
1. Jambi is the name of a region in Indonesia.
2. Jambi is mountainous, here from the king's mountain view.
3. Jambi was ruled by sultans; I imagine that they feasted.
4. Jambi was divided into two kingdoms after the Dutch invaded, the upper ruled by Taha, the lower by the Dutch; and divided, they were withering away, waiting for the sun to shine on 'til the two became one.



I appreciate this myth, yet I fail to see anyhing in it that links the song's mention of "benevolent [sun/son]" exclusively to Greco-Roman mythology. Most deities had sons, and most deities linked to the sun had sons. Furthermore, in this story, Hermes is not exactly painted as "benevolent-" cattle rustler that he was. The fact is that the benevolence of the sun is as archetypal as the life-giving nature of water. The large majority of human culture has revered the sun. I still say that you are being short-sighted by linking this song exclusively to Appolo.




No, you don’t “fail to see,” you REFUSE to see.

Here’s the thing … hey, by the way, thanks for pointing this out … my “thematic analysis” doesn’t have to be “EXCULSIVE” to Roman mythology. Throw any deity and any one of his sons into my theme and it still works beautifully. “Every culture from the dawn of history has revered the sun as a mystical giver of life…”

Right?

You seem to be hung up on listing words from the first couple lines of the song as part of your campaign to give “this ludicrous notion some credibility.”

I wonder if you’ve considered the rest of the song, as well as the list of words that support my line of thinking … probably not. Please note that these words can be found throughout the song, not just in the first four lines.


WISH it all away if I thought I'd lose you... just one DAY

The DEVIL and his had me doubt..

In love with the DARK SIDE I'd found

WISH this all away.

PRAY like a martyr DUSK till DAWN
BEG like a hooker all NIGHT long

shafted the DEVIL with my PSALM

WISH it away
WISH it all away
wanna WISH it all away
no PROPHET could hold sway, or justify my giving away my center

so if I could I'd WISH it all away
if I thought TOMORROW would take you away
you're my peace of mind, my all, my saturn
I'm just trying to hold on one more DAY..

DIM my eyes if they should compromise our fulcrum.

SHINE down forever
SHINE on BENVOLENT SUN
SHINE down upon the broken, SHINE until the two become one.

SHINE on forever. SHINE on BENEVOLENT SUN.
SHINE down upon the severed, SHINE until the two become one.

SHINE down upon the many
LIGHT our ways
BENEVLOENT SUN.
survive another DAY and SEASON

Open your eyes, SPO.

Jambi eyes, SPO.

[BlanketEffect]

Is there some mandate that says he had to write the entire sum of lyrics in one sitting?

Couldn't he have written part of the song (based on a jam with the band) and gotten the idea to use the title 'Jambi' from what he initially wrote and then incorporated some Jambi, Indonesia history to enhance the song's imagery?

Who knows, maybe he liked the idea of 'Jambi' and Googled it to find out something more about the genie-character and discovered the Indonesian story.

Not a definite, but I think this isn't too far from the truth. Or rather, at least something akin to this.

[ThreeDeviations]

Anyhow.. back the the lyrics.


How come none of you have replied to

1. WINCH it away
2. DEALING away my center/sinner
3. The devil and his had me DOUBT (Phi is on board w that one)
4. AWAKE my center
5. PRAY in union on the 5th time..
6. PROPHET / Profit

as well as "hone" and "alone"... but those aren't quite as significant or certain. Psalm / song won't really change the song's meaning.. so it's not as important.. but

I think there should be some brainstorming for "WINCH" it away.
and "AWAKE my center/sinner."

[swampyfool]

I'll listen for all that trollery at the show in three hours!

[benjamin]

Anyhow.. back the the lyrics.


How come none of you have replied to

1. WINCH it away
2. DEALING away my center/sinner
3. The devil and his had me DOUBT (Phi is on board w that one)
4. AWAKE my center
5. PRAY in union on the 5th time..
6. PROPHET / Profit

as well as "hone" and "alone"... but those aren't quite as significant or certain. Psalm / song won't really change the song's meaning.. so it's not as important.. but

I think there should be some brainstorming for "WINCH" it away.
and "AWAKE my center/sinner."


5. PREY, the 5th time, as in hunt together. To "survive...day...season" quite sure, quite.

[BlanketEffect]

Anyhow.. back the the lyrics.


How come none of you have replied to

1. WINCH it away
2. DEALING away my center/sinner
3. The devil and his had me DOUBT (Phi is on board w that one)
4. AWAKE my center

6. PROPHET / Profit



Not just because I'm Blanket and you're 3D... we'll know for sure when the lyrics get released... but. for now I'm going to go with... Every single one of those is absolutely incorrect, without fail. I'm gonna go ahead and go with that as my final answer.

Part of me wants to believe you're just making this shit up to amuse yourself when people take them seriously. (So I really hope that you aren't)

Pray/Prey is a distinct possibility.

[ThreeDeviations]

Not just because I'm Blanket and you're 3D... we'll know for sure when the lyrics get released... but. for now I'm going to go with... Every single one of those is absolutely incorrect, without fail. I'm gonna go ahead and go with that as my final answer.

Part of me wants to believe you're just making this shit up to amuse yourself when people take them seriously. (So I really hope that you aren't)

Pray/Prey is a distinct possibility.


He absolutely says "pray" the last time. "Prey" in union? I don't think so. "Prey" doesn't even fit the theme of the song... let alone what Tool's message is primarly about... which is UNITY. . and not "preying" on one another.

He says "winch" it away once on the disk. That's 99% sure. I have no idea why he says it... but he does. -2:50. Turn it up.

The devil and his had me DOUBT... that one isn't discernible entirely... "down" works okay too in context... but not nearly as well as doubt... and ask yourself.. which of those 2 words do you think he'd choose to use.

Awake my center/sinner. "Try headphones!" I noticed this just a few days ago in my car. I have a very good radio and speakers.. turned up pretty loud... you can definitely hear the awAKE. Go try it... (of course feel free to come back and tell me I'm crazy...) If you are just casually listening... and at a modest sound level.... you won't hear it.

Dealing away my center.

No prophet/profit...


SPO, one thing you may be right about may be "I said I'm" just trying to hold on.. one more day.... It doesn't really make sense to say "I said I'm" since he hasn't previously said it... but it is possible he says that instead of saturn/center.

It's too bad I didn't see you at the Chicago show.. I could've bitch slapped you.

[swampyfool]

. . . let alone what Tool's message is primarly about... which is UNITY. . and not "preying" on one another.

At least we can agree on this.

It's too bad I didn't see you at the Chicago show.. I could've bitch slapped you.

I had some pretty nose-bleedy seats (section 216)- still a phenomenal experience, though. Quite the Jambi. Unfortunately, the Allstate naming rights on the Rosemont Horizon have not ushered in any sort of improved sound quality, so from my vantage point all that I could ascertain definitively is that it is "dim my eyes" both before and after the "jam_ eyes." It's certainly "jam" something, but I was unable to get confirmation or denial on the "B" sound.

Fuckin' A, though . . . WFM/10KD is absolutely unbelievable live. I love that the whole crowd (almost) went on singing "I'll . . . Keep . . . Digging . . . " even though Maynard and the boys were doing something different at that moment of the stinky fist. Awesome show.

[benjamin]

He absolutely says "pray" the last time. "Prey" in union? I don't think so. "Prey" doesn't even fit the theme of the song... let alone what Tool's message is primarly about... which is UNITY. . and not "preying" on one another.

He says "winch" it away once on the disk. That's 99% sure. I have no idea why he says it... but he does. -2:50. Turn it up.

It's too bad I didn't see you at the Chicago show.. I could've bitch slapped you.

I say, 'prey' together, not each other!!??

I honestly don't see how 'pray' would fit the theme of the song. Two, need not 'pray' together to survive. On the contrary, praying is quite 'dividual.

"Try headphones."
LOL. I think it's safe to assume, anyone posting on these endless threads, has probibly been doing that.

[BlanketEffect]

You know, much as I never thought I would, as I completely thought the concept of it was entirely retarded, I may concede now that there is at least one vocal track that says "Jambi eyes" - Even if it doesn't get claimed on the official release I hear the "B" sound now. I was previously only able to hear the "J" sound but assumed it may have been the way he enunciated the "D" sound in "dim". But now I hear the "B" pretty clearly.

Dealing/Kneeling - Both make sense literally but not phonetically; I don't hear the "D" sound in the slightest and I clearly hear the "N" sound. So it's really not a matter of opinion so much as it's just a matter of who's hearing is more acute. So it's a crapshoot. I just hear the "N" sound so clearly that I can't imagine that someone could hear it differently.

Awake/away my sinner - This one is plausible only phonetically. Literally, it wouldn't really fit in well at all with any of the suggested proceeding lines. Kneeling away/awake my sinner? Giving away/awake my sinner? Doesn't make any damn sense, man. 'Kneeling/giving away my center' is the only one that fits both phonetically and literally.

Prophet/profit is a plausible possibility, both phonetically and literally. I'm still more inclined to think it's 'prize here' simply because I hear the "Z" sound very distinctly.

Jambi eyes...

=/

[LabRat404]

treasures and flesh, never food.



the devil and his has me now
live in the dark side I've found
dabbling all the way down
up to my neck so I drown

[BlanketEffect]

treasures and flesh, never food.



the devil and his has me now
live in the dark side I've found
dabbling all the way down
up to my neck so I drown

Uhh... yeah... wow.

[ThreeDeviations]

treasures and flesh, never food.



the devil and his has me now
live in the dark side I've found
dabbling all the way down
up to my neck so I drown


Umm... no... pow.

[ThreeDeviations]

Blanket, you're so baked.

Glad to hear you've at least come around on Jam-bi eyes. (SPO too)

"Dealing" ... I am not 100% on that obviously... it could be giving or kneeling... but the original "n" sound you're apparently hearing.. is likely just the "de" from "dealing." If he doesn't pronounce a hard "D"... then I guess I could see where I think you're mistaking that for an "n" sound... but I don't hear it. But if you agree with what LabRat wrote.. thinking those are legit lyrics...nothing surprises me anymore from you.

If someone had a gun to my head, I'd go with "dealing." Especially when you consider the devil theme..... "dealing" with the devil. . making a deal with the devil. (Maybe you've heard of that)

I don't know how all of the lyrics tie in yet to the meaning... I'm weighing different ideas.. so for the most part, I am still trying to decipher what's being said.

but as of right now... this is my best guess for the line that is most in question.

(I also said earlier about "winch" it away.... this itunes says it's at 250.. but in my car, he says it at 2:48.. )

so it goes..

wish it away..

WINCH it away..

wish it all away...

wanna wish it all away...

No profit/prophet could hold sway or justify my dealing. Awake my center.

I don't have any idea why he says WINCH. Maybe it has no relevance at all. It sounded like he said "wish" at the concert... but it's pretty clearly "winch" on the cd.

So Blanket Boy, dont make a reply post saying how "winch" doesn't make grammatical sense.. or the context is phuct up.. or whatever it is that will likely come from your head. I'm not saying I know why he says it.. yet.

[benjamin]

Blanket, you're so baked.

(I also said earlier about "winch" it away.... this itunes says it's at 250.. but in my car, he says it at 2:48.. )

so it goes..

wish it away..

WINCH it away..

wish it all away...

wanna wish it all away...

.



I contend that, IF it's "winch it away" then I'm hearing it at the begining both.

"Winch it away. Winch it away. Wish it all away. Wanna wish it all away."

[BlanketEffect]

But if you agree with what LabRat wrote.. thinking those are legit lyrics...nothing surprises me anymore from you.


Umm... yeah... wow


(the conveyance of utter disbelief, obviously lost on you)

So Blanket Boy, dont make a reply post saying how "winch" doesn't make grammatical sense.. or the context is phuct up.. or whatever it is that will likely come from your head. I'm not saying I know why he says it.. yet.

I mean, yeah... sure... I s'pose he could be talking about taking all of his ill-gotten things and hook them up to a tow truck and 'winch it all away'? *sigh*

[LabRat404]

Thats what I heard before I read the lyrics here on TDN. After reading them here, I explicitly hear them the "correct" way. (which is my way just with a past tense)

[ThreeDeviations]

Umm... yeah... wow


(the conveyance of utter disbelief, obviously lost on you)


I mean, yeah... sure... I s'pose he could be talking about taking all of his ill-gotten things and hook them up to a tow truck and 'winch it all away'? *sigh*

wow, so you really don't believe Rablat's lyrics are right? You were being sarcastic? That's great.. maybe I can just assume you were being sarcastic in the majority of your posts...

and

so since "winch" doesn't make sense in your mind... and couldn't possibly hold any context in the song... you're just going to disregard him saying it? So it's safe to assume you don't think he says it then, right?

and, it's not "winch it all away" just "winch it away"... one time.. 2:48. But you can't imagine how or why he may say that... so instead you "sigh" in frustration from my incessant imagination.

[BlanketEffect]

wow, so you really don't believe Rablat's lyrics are right? You were being sarcastic? That's great.. maybe I can just assume you were being sarcastic in the majority of your posts...


Assume anything you'd like to.


so since "winch" doesn't make sense in your mind... and couldn't possibly hold any context in the song... you're just going to disregard him saying it? So it's safe to assume you don't think he says it then, right?

and, it's not "winch it all away" just "winch it away"... one time.. 2:48. But you can't imagine how or why he may say that... so instead you "sigh" in frustration from my incessant imagination.


Disregard it? No. Consider it as the more likely of the two? No.

[El Scorcho]

I can't believe anyone would deny there being a "jambi eyes" in this song... Now, I think there's only one, but it IS in there. The "J" is so clearly pronounced and so different from a "d," that I would put up plenty of money on the title being in the song. I hope we find out soon.

[swampyfool]

I can't believe anyone would deny there being a "jambi eyes" in this song... Now, I think there's only one, but it IS in there. The "J" is so clearly pronounced and so different from a "d," that I would put up plenty of money on the title being in the song. I hope we find out soon.

I don't think that people are disputing the "J," rather the "B."

[BlanketEffect]

I don't think that people are disputing the "J," rather the "B."

Yeah, the "J" sound is fairly clear, though it could just be the way he is enunciating the "D" in 'Dim/Damn'; however, if the "B" is there, that is the distinguishing factor of whether he says 'Dim/Damn my eyes' or 'Jambi eyes'

Honestly, I am of the opinion that it *is* 'dim/damn my eyes' and that there is another vocal track thrown over it saying 'jambi eyes'. But, when the officials come out, I don't think you'll see 'Jambi eyes' in it.

[Terry21]

I don't think it only "could be" the way he's screaming the "D", in about every other Tool song where he sings a D agressively, it's turning to a J. But you're right about the B / P thing, maybe he just throws that in because he feels like it or it is damp my eyes. Now that he sings "cozened" like "frozen" I can say he sings damp instead of dampen. ;)

[El Scorcho]

I don't think that people are disputing the "J," rather the "B."

That's strange, because the "B" is clear to me as well. It's crazy how different people can hear totally different things.

[benjamin]

"Half in a kings mountain view
"Half in a wild dream come true.
....heaven, half in, HERE FROM, even having, and if in...WTF. All of these fit the context of the song, and sound close too. Having switched from heaven to half in I may seem to be "reaching" for anything other than "here from" but that's only cause I'm compelled to challenge the thought that is most likely corrrect.

"The devil and his had me down
"In love with the dark side I'd foul.
....doubt/down? I don't think he says "doubt" there. First because, doubt what? Second, I think If/when you sing doubt, the word stops abruptly at the end even when you don't actually sound out the T. Then, the same for "found/foul" I simply hear foul, and if it's found then, found what, ah, I supose "found" his "doubt"??

"Brave like a myrter dusk to dawn
"Beg like a hooker all night long.
....pray/brave? Once again I simply hear "brave", and clearly. I think folks get caught up in the thought of this line and tell themselves it just has to be "pray". Because I don't hear that at all. Also, take issue w/ all who post 'til, it is deffinately "dusk to dawn".

"Shout to the devil with my soul
"And get what I wanted all alone.
....shout to/chapter? I think if he sang chapter here, it would sound totally different. Try that one yoyrself, c'mon sounds way different. song/psalm/soul? In my 14 years of listening to TOOL, I know now that MJK has an inexplicable and despicable desire/habit of melding and/or interchanging the words song, soul, sun/son, I think that's what happens, again, here. along/alone? It's commonplace to think that when you "get what you want" from the "devil", there's always that negative aspect to any reward. Such as getting what you want, but all alone.

"No prize, you could hold sway, or justify my giving.
"Awake my center.

[spacemonkeyadb]

Hello Benji. It's amazing how almost everything you suggest is something I completely disagree with :)
"Half in a kings mountain view
"Half in a wild dream come true.
I definitely hear a "HE" as in HEAD (Here from) rather than a "HAR" as in HEART (Half in), and I think "Here from..." is the best fit for the context.

"The devil and his had me down
"In love with the dark side I'd foul.
....and if it's found then, found what...?
The 'dark side' is what he had found. Think of "I'd" as an abbreviation for "I had" rather than "I would", i.e. "In love with the dark side (that) I had found".
And I know the final "d" for 'found' isn't pronounced, but it is not uncommon for the final sound to be missed out or simply not picked up by the recording. (Compare with the missing final "s"s on the Salival version of Part Of Me.) "Found" would also allow these two lines and the following two lines to rhyme as originally written (i.e. down/found/down/drown).

"Brave like a martyr dusk to dawn
I've been listening to it as "Pray like a martyr dusk 'till dawn", but on this one I'll concede that I don't hear either part with enough clarity to be sure either way. I do think that "Pray" is a better fit for meaning though. A martyr who knows he is to be executed at dawn will pray throughout the night for his God to give him the strength to face his death with faith and dignity, but he doesn't really display bravery until the moment of execution itself.

"Shout to the devil with my soul
"And get what I wanted all alone.
I don't think it's "Shout to" or "Chapter" here. I've been going with "Tempted the devil", though it does sound more like a "Sh-" sound at the start. This one is way too difficult to hear for me to have any confidence one way or the other.
And I think the last words for each line are "song" and "along" (partly because they would rhyme, partly for meaning, partly for the sound).


"No prize, you could hold sway, or justify my giving.
"Awake my center.
On this one I AM quite certain. The above quote doesn't make any sense at all. To "hold sway" is to have power or influence over someone. "No prize you could justify my giving" makes sense (in an awkward way), but dropping "hold sway" into the middle of it turns it into nonsense. Plus there is not enough of a pause (or any pause at all) between "giving" and "awake" to justify ending the sentence there.
This part is almost certainly:

"No pressure could hold sway, or justify my giving away my center"

"Pressure" and "center" remain in some dispute, but the overall grammatical structure should be beyond doubt.

[ThreeDeviations]

I disagree with most of that as well..

however, regarding the "hold sway" line..

disregard the grammatical integrity for the time being... there are too many words in that particular line for people to rule out anything based on how it does or doesn't make sense grammatically.

What I hear... with no commas or sense of grammar is...

No profit could hone/hold sway or justify my dealing AWAKE my center/sinner.

for it to make sense, it would have to be structured like

No profit could hone, sway, or justify my dealing. Awake my center.
No profit could hold sway or justify my dealing.. (or) Awake my sinner.

or something close to that-

obviously

No "________" could hold sway or justify my giving away my center..

is very rational.. and most people's assumption... and it sounds like that unless you really scrutinize. So maybe I'm being too analytical, that's possible.. but on the otherhand, I clearly hear "awake"... so that disrupts everything.

If you twist your volume up, the "AWAKE" is pretty clear... just listening to that part casually at your computer or in your car at a normal level.. you won't hear anything other than "away." That word definitely has emphasis at end of it if you listen and at high enough level .. emphasis from a consonant.

That said, I doubt when the "official" lyrics come out... that it will say "Awake"... or "Winch it away" (2:48)... but that doesn't mean he doesn't actually say that in the song.

Take Prison Sex... the 2nd time through he clearly says.. close enough so I can DROWN you.... but it's listed as "smell" in the official lyrics. It's just Maynard not wanting to divulge every single subtlety. Official lyrics or not, he still maintains some degree of mystery, satisfaction, subtlety and discretion.. or at least wants to.

[panocha21]

Since there is so much debate, let me clear it up.

"No present could hold sway, or justify my giving away my Santa".

Apparently Maynard loves Santa. He wouldn't give him up for anything else.

[benjamin]

3devo...I hear ya. The grammer nazi thinks way too highly of MJKs gramatical perfection. This is after all poetry, Monkey.
I know, very well, how satisfying it is to say its "pressure" or "prize here" to make it all seem sensical. All I can add to my explanation is that I think, first, "hold" is a sort of fulcrum, playing off "prize" and leading into "sway" and I think this is sort of the aspect of this section of the song. The music is deffinately breaking down to a change, and the lyrics follow suite. In this sense, one line ends with "giving." unexpectedly, and then, of course, the next line is immediately begun..."Awake my center."
GRAMMER BE DAMNED!!!

[spacemonkeyadb]

^ Yes, it's acceptable to mess around with the so-called "rules" of grammar for the sake of poetic effect. But only if it results in something that makes some kind of sense. (Yoda, for example, fucks up his grammar, but it's done for effect - his speech is not meaningless nonsense).

"No prize, you could hold sway, or justify my giving. Awake my center"

This, on the other hand, doesn't seem to express anything meaningful at all. It is messed up grammar with no positive resulting effect. If this is what MJK is really singing, then what the hell is the thought that he is trying to communicate to us? It just sounds nonsensical to me. Especially when there are other alternative lyrics that DO make sense (with respect to both grammar and meaning).

[BlanketEffect]

^ Yes, it's acceptable to mess around with the so-called "rules" of grammar for the sake of poetic effect. But only if it results in something that makes some kind of sense. (Yoda, for example, fucks up his grammar, but it's done for effect - his speech is not meaningless nonsense).

"No prize, you could hold sway, or justify my giving. Awake my center"

This, on the other hand, doesn't seem to express anything meaningful at all. It is messed up grammar with no positive resulting effect. If this is what MJK is really singing, then what the hell is the thought that he is trying to communicate to us? It just sounds nonsensical to me. Especially when there are other alternative lyrics that DO make sense (with respect to both grammar and meaning).

Exactly. Giving what? Nothing could justify his giving? Again, giving what? Giving away his center? Now that makes fucking sense, and then at least it's not a pseudo-sentence fragment...... Yeah, you're right, fuck grammar... how about just plain sense? The man didn't write a musical poem of random shit just so some of these fucked up assertions about the lyrics could be true. I admit, the man does some crazy stuff with the lyrics and vocals, but some of the stuff that's suggested here is just like... well, okay, I'll be high and mighty... fucking retarded. I'm fairly certain if Maynard reads them from time to time, the phrase has popped into his head also... "This is fucking retarded! Where do they get this shit from?"

Away/Awake< Yeah, it could be either. There may be a consonant sound. I've not been able to hear 'awake' yet, but at the levels needed to hear it the percussion is so loud I couldn't rule out it being a cymbal crash or drum stroke or something.

And ultimately, who cares what sound came out of the back of his throat as he recorded something. If he wrote 'wish' and he was singing 'wish' and the vague possible sound of 'winch' came out, that doesn't mean that that's what he was singing, that just means that was a by-product sound that was made. Hell, most of us don't notice it, maybe he didn't notice it. Sometimes he does write lyrics in the officials that are clearly not what he sang on the album. I'm not talking about these. I'm talking about the ones where we're taking perfectly good lyrical speculation and replacing sound, logical lyrics with implied consonant words that suddenly make the lyrics/line/stanza cease to make literary sense. It's like, he knows how to use the English language beautifully until it gets to a part of the song where someone hears some extra fucking sound somewhere and it makes it seem like some word that makes no sense. And then we try to figure out how we can make this nonsensical shit make sense and justify it. Here's the justification:

It's not what he was fucking singing.

Having read a lot of the suggested lyrics, especially some of the more off-the-wall ones, I can say one thing: There's a certain level that Maynard writes at, and quite frankly, most of the weird suggestions on this board are something a ninth grader would write. I'm sorry if that offends anyone, I include myself in this. Some of the suggestions are just fucking retarded. Use some common sense.

All I'm saying is that this is a lyrics forum, not a "what gurgle did his voice make @ 3:46 and what way can we take a normal word and then make it seem like he's saying something COMPLETELY nonsensical" forum.

[benjamin]

All right, I'm not in the ninth grade, and, am well aware of MJKs unparalleled sophistication. Part of that sophisticated style is reflected in the fact that Maynard integrates his vocals, much further, comparred to most/all other musicians, into the musical composition of the song as a whole, thus, lending himself to gramatical error and alike.
I still like to stretch the comtemplative boundries. Just to clarify, I'm not as sure about the lyrics I've typed as you like to assume. You guys can act like you're offended by my suggestions, or WTF ever, ...lighten up. I do type what I hear, and I still hear the line as I posted, but I DO NOT believe the "official" version of the song will read that way. Maybe:
Wanna wish it all away
No
Prize you could
Hold (could hold)
Sway or
Justify my
Giving in*
Awake my center so
If I could I'd wish it all away
If I thought tomarrow
Would take you away
*in, may or may not need to be inside() depending on if you might hear it or not, if not then it should be (in)

[vocapulary]

here from*

maybe it's " heaven the kings mountain view"

[ThreeDeviations]

yeah, the man is so particular about everything... yet, during recording.. he's going to say "winch"... and not mean to... and just say, "ahh fuck it, keep that take anyhow!"

ha, I've heard it all now.

try listening to how clearly he says wish, twice. then listen to the other word... and how it sounds much different than the two times he says wish... then come back and try to tell me it's just an accident.. or a cock in his throat.

right, you can't hear "awake"... but you can hear "pressure, kneeling" and probably many other things SPO suggested. At least he has his own thoughts and ideas on the lyrics and song. All it would take would be SPO to come on here, or pretty much anyone other than me and say... "yeah, he really does say winch... yeah, he really does say awake.." and you'd be getting in line like usual.


You say, "The man didn't write a musical poem of random shit just so some of these fucked up assertions about the lyrics could be true."

Of course not silly.. the lyrics came first! Or maybe he read my crazy assertions... then went back and re-recorded Jambi just so my fucked up, random, senseless ideas could actually be valid. Versions of 10,000 days sold after August 1st have the fucked up ThreeDevitions assertions and the ones prior have all the correct Linus lyrics.

"Maybe he didn't notice?" yeah right... that must be it.
I'd say him being particular is putting it very mildly. I dont think he'd accept any subtle musical or lyrical inaccuracies... let alone mispronouncing a word entirely... then saying.. "ahh fuck it.. we have deadlines to make!" "Close enough."

"Some gurgle in his voice" at 2:48.. so now I am just trying to make shit up? You struggle. He says WINCH. If you can't accept it.. so be it. But don't come ripping me because you don't want to believe it could really be. Like I said before, it's likely when your long awaited lyrics get posted it will say "wish" 3 times.. then you can get on your precious little computer and make a post to me saying I was wrong... and I am not as high and mighty as I'd like to believe.. and whatever the hell else ya want.. but he does say it.

Close enough so I can DROWN you. Said

"I have a hard-on... for you.. for you.." Said

He likely says AWAKE too. You refuse to let yourself accept it because it blows up your schema. Don't come trying to insinuate I am just trying to hear things that aren't really there... and even worse, when you actually do finally hear something I've pointed out...
don't try to rationalize it by saying The Man just badly mispronounced a basic one syllable word.. and then suggest he wouldnt notice afterwards if it wasn't what he intended.

spare me the gibberish-

go find your blankey and go night night.

[bluegreenjackiechan]

I think it's "dim my eyes"...

HA I always thought it was "Its in my eyes"

Guess I was way off....

[BlanketEffect]

I know it like, doesn't sit right with your ego, but the fact that you are the one coming up with the lyrics has nothing to do with my disagreeing with you. I'm a seeker of truth, not ass-kissing or enmity. If you suggest something and I hear it and it's a possibility, I'll acknowledge it as such. If I think it's really accurate and likely, I'll say so. If I think what you said is retarded and unlikely, I'll say so. Even an asshole can be right sometimes, I won't discredit someone simply for being an asshole. I'll just tell them they're an asshole. As such, my opinions aren't based to be solely in opposition to yours. I just think you're wrong.

It has nothing to do with what SPO said being my reason for hearing what I hear. I will concede, however, that SPO's ideas, (to me), make way more sense and are far more plausible than yours. Simple as that.

And you know, you're the only person on the boards (made known at this time) that hears 'Winch' - so either everyone else is deaf, or Maynard didn't say it or hear it himself as it's such a subtle interpretation of the sound. I mean, I know you're amazing and all, but isn't it curious that *no one* hears this shit but yourself? Of course it isn't curious. It's you, afterall.

And again, you argue for 'awake my center' but then the sentence(s) would be "No (whatever) could hold sway or justify my giving. Awake my center." - Couldn't justify his giving of what? Pressure/Prize/Prophets couldn't justify his giving? As in charity? WTF are you on about, man? I mean, get over defending what you hear and now rationalize it and explain it in a sensible way.

Not only that, but the next line is "So if I could, I'd wish it all away"

What I hear>> "No prize here could hold sway or justify my kneeling away my center, so if I could, I'd wish it all away."

What you seem to hear>> "No prophet/profit could hold sway or justify my giving. Awake my center. So if I could, I'd wish it all away."

I know, I know, it doesn't matter what makes sense, it's what he's saying, blah blah blah. Then why don't you release your official lyrics of the album and then when the real officials come out we'll see if you're even in the right ballpark, because while they may get changed, not *many* of them do. So let's see where it falls. And any examples you've sited that he changed the official lyrics from what he sings... they both still make sense, both the sung and the changed officials, and it's never a subtle change. It's 'soothing' to 'feeding' in Reflection; the example you give for Prison Sex, it's not a subtle change, like he sung it one way and then just changed it in the officials by changing a vowel or consonant sound. He changes them to completely different words, not just to accomodate some subtle, possible sound interpretation.

He may mix lyrics up on the official versions but at least they still make sense. What you suggest just makes no sense. And I don't mean in the "it's deep and metaphorical" kind of way. I mean that it's such poor English that it literally holds no meaning in your current suggested form.

I'm not disputing your intelligence or your attention to detail. But, sometimes, you're just ignorant. Period.

EDIT: Oh, and where the hell was your bionic hearing when we were all trying to figure out the lyrics for Rosetta Stoned? I can't find one post you made concerning the lyrical content of that song other than maybe an opinion on one or two words/phrases. The 'vanilla chig chompa' part... I'm sure that's exactly what you heard, right? Long before the officials were released? I mean, you had to have known at least 90% of the disputed lyrics, and which ones were correct, right? Because you're the only one among us with ears that can hear details.

[ThreeDeviations]

Ignorant eh? ok

I am the only one hearing "winch"? Doubt that.

you never answered the question either... how come you can clearly hear wish the 1st and 3rd time, but the middle one sounds nothing like wish?

Oh wait, nevermind, I forgot.. cock in throat.

whatever blanket.. you're welcome to believe what you'd like.

I believe i said in a previous post too.. that there are a couple words that are unclear.. so trying to make sense of that sentence's structure is pretty silly. So even though I think he says AWAKE.. WINCH... and maybe "profit/prophet" doesn't mean I know exactly how it makes complete sense yet.

You're not compelling to me. So I don't even feel a desire to write anything else.

[SevenSidedStar]

I still think he say's "Shit the bed again..." in rosetta stoned...pretty sure...heh

[benjamin]

Keep on keepin on, brother. That's the O-FFI-CI-AL lyric.

[spacemonkeyadb]

Can you guys drop the egos for a minute and discuss this stuff without having a go at each other? Seriously.


I am the only one hearing "winch"? Doubt that.

you never answered the question either... how come you can clearly hear wish the 1st and 3rd time, but the middle one sounds nothing like wish?
I gotta side with the blanket on this one. Fact: No-one else has agreed with you on "winch". No-one.
I listened for it when you initially suggested it and found nothing different from "wish" for each one. I went back just now, maxing the treble and adjusting the equalizer for vocals, looking for something that would explain why you think the 2:48 one is somehow different to the others and I'm still baffled. I can only conclude that what you are hearing is some anomaly based on the sound systems you've been listening to it on.


I believe i said in a previous post too.. that there are a couple words that are unclear.. so trying to make sense of that sentence's structure is pretty silly. So even though I think he says AWAKE.. WINCH... and maybe "profit/prophet" doesn't mean I know exactly how it makes complete sense yet.

You're just wrong to think that we can't determine the grammatical structure while certain words are in doubt. We do know what KIND of words they must be. Ignoring all punctuation, commas, and periods, we know:

"No NOUN could hold(/hone) sway or justify my VERBing away/awake my NOUN"

It's possible that this could mean "No ... could HOLD my verbing, SWAY my verbing, or JUSTIFY my verbing". But if it IS "hold" rather than "hone" then "hold sway" almost certainly go together, with the result that we would have to read it as "No ... could hold sway COMMA, or justify my verbing".
And once we have this much, it should be clear that "...justify my VERBing..." is begging for some noun that is being verbed - if it's DEALing, then dealing what? If GIVing, then giving what? It makes much more sense to suppose that the sentence doesn't stop there, and rather does on to say "...VERBing away my NOUN".
So assuming "hold" (which is definitely what I hear), we have:

"No NOUN could hold sway, or justify my VERBing away my NOUN"

And I stand by my earlier claim that Benji's suggestion for this line was complete nonsense.

[BlanketEffect]

Can you guys drop the egos for a minute and discuss this stuff without having a go at each other? Seriously.

You're just wrong to think that we can't determine the grammatical structure while certain words are in doubt. We do know what KIND of words they must be. Ignoring all punctuation, commas, and periods, we know:

"No NOUN could hold(/hone) sway or justify my VERBing away/awake my NOUN"

It's possible that this could mean "No ... could HOLD my verbing, SWAY my verbing, or JUSTIFY my verbing". But if it IS "hold" rather than "hone" then "hold sway" almost certainly go together, with the result that we would have to read it as "No ... could hold sway COMMA, or justify my verbing".
And once we have this much, it should be clear that "...justify my VERBing..." is begging for some noun that is being verbed - if it's DEALing, then dealing what? If GIVing, then giving what? It makes much more sense to suppose that the sentence doesn't stop there, and rather does on to say "...VERBing away my NOUN".
So assuming "hold" (which is definitely what I hear), we have:

"No NOUN could hold sway, or justify my VERBing away my NOUN"



Finally, a well-put, logical argument for one point of view. One that actually justifies whatever claims are being made about it. Whether it's wrong or right isn't the point right now. The point is there's actually a rational argument for it and not something arbitrary.

Yes, egos aside, I wanted to hear the logical argument for "Awake my center" in the context of all the other lyrics that *aren't* in dispute. "Awake my center" is a command... and given the light of the previous line, ambiguous words aside, an imperative sentence makes no sense there. While I agree Maynard plays with sounds and double-meanings, I've never read a line that just didn't make any sense by him.

That's the difference between this and Reflection, or Prison Sex, or whatever. Here, the alternatives being suggested don't just sound wrong to me personally, they also don't really make any sense in a communication type of way. They don't communicate any rational thought. At least, not in the scope of the English language.

[ThreeDeviations]

Spacemonkey, you have repeatedly tried to hear "Winch" and still cannot? Okay. I am sure there are plenty more just like you.

Umm, I've already said that it makes the most sense for it to be something like "No _______ could ______ sway or justify my giving/dealing away my center. That is logical... I concede that. That is logical. I concede that. That is logical. I concede that.

But when there are words that I hear like AWAKE and HONE. I am going to speculate.

Dealing can't possibly make sense?

No profit could hone/hold sway, or justify my deal. (ing) Saying "dealing" makes sense too. He's talking about dealing with temptation... dealing with the devil.
Simply Translated.... "No amount of money is going to compromise his integrity."

Like I said, it's moot.. I am not 100% sure he says "dealing" anyhow. So I am not going to get too involved... and even if I was positive... nothing sinks in with most of anyway.. because you refuse to really listen. You just hear and see what you want.
I mean, if you really tell me you can't hear "winch"... then what's the point of going further. Is it blatantly obvious? No. If you listen, you'll hear it. Period.

The first wish and last wish.. both end with the "shhhhhhhhhhh" - as if you're telling a child to be quiet.
The middle "winch"... you can hear an "n"... and it's a "CH" sound at the end... like saying the word CHerry. I guess it's subtle until you open your fucking ears.
But you're right, it's probably my shitty Bose computer speakers... and my comical Infinity car speakers.

Awake my center. Yup, it's a command.. congratulations.

So nobody's entirely sure about song title, actual message, or even who he's singing about in the song... but despite that, it's rational to eliminate certain words, ideas and phrases entirely.

It's especially sad when you consider that he really is saying WINCH and AWAKE.

and "justify" very well may be... "just to find.. my" or "just define"


Also, we assume he's saying aloud "wanna wish it all away?" Maybe the sentence STARTS with profit/prize or some other word we haven't even mentioned and determined.

Wanna wish it all away? A Question.
"No." An answer.

Do I think that's the context? No.
Is it a possibility? Yes.

There are still many possibilities in this song's structure.

In the meantime, tell me I'm ignorant.

[Thepott]

I dont hear winch at all, and i listen to that song everyday, "wish it all away"

[ThreeDeviations]

I dont hear winch at all, and i listen to that song everyday, "wish it all away"

Try reading the entire post first...

Of course he says WISH IT ALL AWAY. He says WISH in that sentence. Yup, I agree. I am not disputing that particular part. Jesus.

Depending on what system you're playing the song on, it may vary at the exact time he says it... but I'll say it one more time because now people just assume I think he says "WINCH" all the time apparently. JC.


But I...
and I would..
if I could...
' I would...

wish it away...
WINCH it away.. <-------------------
wish it all away...
wanna wish it all away....

[spacemonkeyadb]

It's especially sad when you consider that he really is saying WINCH and AWAKE.

I didn't mean to imply anything about the quality of your speakers. Just that they seem to be producing a sound that no-one else in this forum is hearing.
But if it IS there, how could it be anything other than an oddity of his pronunciation of "wish", or some interference by the music? If there IS a difference (and I can't hear one at all) then it's certainly not a strong enough one to show that he was deliberately trying to say a word other than "wish". How could he have possibly meant to say "winch"? It makes no sense at all.

I've listened for "awake", and I can definitely hear what sounds like a sharp but short exhalation right after "away", though it may just be some effect of the music. It sounds like an "h" rather than a "k" though.

[ThreeDeviations]

I didn't mean to imply anything about the quality of your speakers. Just that they seem to be producing a sound that no-one else in this forum is hearing.
But if it IS there, how could it be anything other than an oddity of his pronunciation of "wish", or some interference by the music? If there IS a difference (and I can't hear one at all) then it's certainly not a strong enough one to show that he was deliberately trying to say a word other than "wish". How could he have possibly meant to say "winch"? It makes no sense at all.

I've listened for "awake", and I can definitely hear what sounds like a sharp but short exhalation right after "away", though it may just be some effect of the music. It sounds like an "h" rather than a "k" though.


My speakers aren't producing any mysterious sound.. just clarity.

Nobody else in the forum is hearing? Well, considering it's about the same 3-4 people primarily lately... that's a bit careless to say the nobody else is hearing it.

It's a lot easier to hear "winch" than "awake." So for you to concede you may hear something on awake, but hear no sign of "winch" is boggling.

By the way, you claim it sounds like the consonant "h" instead of "k." I was wondering how different an "h" and a "y" would sound? AwaY and AwaH. They don't sound the same? So your hearing is acute enough to distinguish between two letters that would make the same sound (or 99% similar) but you can't hear winch?! *smile*

Turn up the volume and actually listen for winch and awake. I don't know what else to say. Here's another suggestion... turn on the song (loud) and move about 10 feet from your speakers and give it a try.. maybe even move to the next room. Ha, it's comical that I have to make suggestions.. because it's clear.

Do I know what it means? Absolutely not. It could mean nothing. That doesn't change the fact he says it. So stop with the "well, what does it mean then?" But I am sure he says it and I am sure it was deliberate. Maybe it is comparable to "Jambi"... by a dictionary's definition, it means very little or nothing at all.

I don't really care if people don't admit that they hear it. I mean, it's pathetic, but that's just how people are.

[BlanketEffect]

Dude, I wish I heard it. It would make this much simpler. I don't simply choose not to hear it.

I can sort of hear a variation in the second 'wish' - it's a pretty subtle change in the sound, but I still think he intended the listener to hear 'wish' - sure, that could be wrong, but in line with the Razor - whichever makes more sense without having to come up with more justifications is more often correct. So I choose to go with the one that I A) hear B) makes sense.

And, the 'winch' idea has been suggested for quite some time. Yet not a single other person is posting that they heard it. So what if it's just the same three people lately? Couldn't someone post that they hear 'winch' also? It's not like it's only been an idea for a day or two and so people haven't had a chance to respond to it.

Are you the only one that hears it? Probably not. Are you the only one that has claimed to hear it (in this forum)? Yes.

[spacemonkeyadb]

My speakers aren't producing any mysterious sound.. just clarity.

Nobody else in the forum is hearing? Well, considering it's about the same 3-4 people primarily lately... that's a bit careless to say the nobody else is hearing it.

You should be aware that a lot more people read these posts than actually respond to them. And as Blanket has pointed out, your "winch" claim has been here for quite some time. If it really was as clear as you seem to think, then surely SOMEONE would have leapt to your defence to say "Hey yeah, I can hear it too".


It's a lot easier to hear "winch" than "awake." So for you to concede you may hear something on awake, but hear no sign of "winch" is boggling.

By the way, you claim it sounds like the consonant "h" instead of "k." I was wondering how different an "h" and a "y" would sound? AwaY and AwaH. They don't sound the same? So your hearing is acute enough to distinguish between two letters that would make the same sound (or 99% similar) but you can't hear winch?! *smile*
I'm not conceding anything, just telling you what I hear when I listen closely. And you should have paid a little more attention to what I actually said, instead of leaping at the chance to try and make me seem foolish.

I said I hear what sounds like an EXHALATION very shortly after what I hear as "away". NOT a consonantal "h" sound as it would normally be spoken within a word. Rather the kind of sound one might make repeatedly when puffing and out of breath, but here made just once as a result of how forcefully he is spitting out the lyrics (think of the end of the Aenema track). Typing it doesn't really work, but it's kinda like: "...givin' away(hugh) my center.." but very short and sharp. I don't know for sure what it is, I'm just trying to describe it as best I can, but it doesn't sound like a "k".

And your above comments don't really work. There isn't any consonantal "y" in away - the "-ay" combine to give a long-A vowel sound. Plus an "h" sound and a consonantal "y" sound are nowhere near 99% similar. And finally, what I'm describing (as an outbreath) cannot be made with a "y" - if you try it comes out as "hyugh".


Do I know what it means? Absolutely not. It could mean nothing. That doesn't change the fact he says it. So stop with the "well, what does it mean then?" But I am sure he says it and I am sure it was deliberate. Maybe it is comparable to "Jambi"... by a dictionary's definition, it means very little or nothing at all.

I don't really care if people don't admit that they hear it. I mean, it's pathetic, but that's just how people are.
Most people, upon suggesting something that no-one else subsequently agrees with, would tend to admit to themselves at least some remote possibility that they may have been wrong. But your response seems to have been "Wow, everyone but me is just stupid, and can't admit to themselves what they are really hearing". That to me is what is "pathetic".

[ThreeDeviations]

Winch... clear as day.

Oh, more people read this thread than the 3 of us? Cool. Thanks for the update.

and no, not everyone who reads would post... because you two bozos come on immediately and clog up the board... nobody's going to read all that junk.

monkey, as for your rhetoric and backtracking on "awake".. whatever. Not worth my time.

don't worry boys, there's perceived safety in numbers.


so now it's "exhalations"? ha Linus, you going to bring up Razor?

Well, you'd probably agree with that hail mary.. nevermind.

[benjamin]

I contend that, IF it's "winch it away" then I'm hearing it at the begining both.

"Winch it away. Winch it away. Wish it all away. Wanna wish it all away."




That's all I can toss your way 3devo...

I lament these guys using such deffinitive words on such an opinionated subject...

Always, never, no one, no way, no how...whatever, just makes you seem arrogant.

[benjamin]

How about another one, y'all. (NNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!)

What's that? Go? Okay. (AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!)

"Shine down upon the severed, light our ways..." (OOOOOOOOOOO!!!!)

Na! Everyone get their phones on, cue it up. (F#*%*#**@*%#*!!!)

Ah! That's right, just "sever". Referring, again, to the "broken" as a wound?

("Uh, huh.")

That's what I thought, just checking.

[iAMtheMA!]

hahaha! [wipes tear away]

...awesome.

[goes to watch a random jim gaffigan dvd]

;)

[Terry21]

Here from the king / kang's mountain view.

Depending on which speaker of your heaphones you listen to it it either says king or kang.

O lord, what has this thread turned into?

[spacemonkeyadb]

I lament these guys using such deffinitive words on such an opinionated subject...

Always, never, no one, no way, no how...whatever, just makes you seem arrogant.
Other than my claim that "Flippant" is NEVER a noun (which I stand by) can you show me anywhere where I've done this?
The only one that comes to mind is my observation that NO-ONE has supported 3D's "winch" assertions, which is a simple fact that anyone reading this thread can confirm for themselves.

Hey, Terry. What's a "kang"?

[spacemonkeyadb]

Winch... clear as day.
Apparently not, seeing as no-one else hears it.


Oh, more people read this thread than the 3 of us? Cool. Thanks for the update.

and no, not everyone who reads would post... because you two bozos come on immediately and clog up the board... nobody's going to read all that junk.
Oh, I see. We've been wasting space posting our own stupid worthless opinions, thereby preventing the legions of readers from noticing your own brilliant and insightful opinions, who would otherwise have been queuing up to support you in your impressive discovery of "winch".


monkey, as for your rhetoric and backtracking on "awake".. whatever. Not worth my time...
...so now it's "exhalations"? ha Linus, you going to bring up Razor?
Rhetoric? Where? Backtracking? Please show me where you think I have done this. I don't recall having backtracked on anything. I stand by every claim I've made here.

Oh, and after carefully explaining what I hear and why I think it's "away" rather than "awake", my observations are not even worthy of your time? OK. And yet we should all be paying careful attention to what you have to say about "winch"? Yeah, right.

[Terry21]

The "kang" post was just a mock at:

"Depending on what system you're playing the song on, it may vary at the exact time he says it... but I'll say it one more time because now people just assume I think he says "WINCH" all the time apparently. JC."

Unbelievable.

[benjamin]

It is rare indeed that any of us come off as arrogant, we're all above that. I intentionally left out any names.

It was more of a disclaimer, before I stuck up for "winch", which (a long shot) must be at the beginning of both lines, they sound so similar. Butt...

While the first two do sound a bit diff. than the other two. Dude! I don't even think the word winch can be used as a verb. In investigating, a little, I can ONLY find it as the noun, a cylinder w/ a rope/cord for towing/pulling...but it doesn't seem to discribe, by definition at least, the motion or technique or action of the device...

Monkey! the way you put TOOL up on your sig. is fn badass!

[tuck]

winch.....lol When maynard sings, especially when he's really straining, his phoenetics get messed up a little. Just take a look at the non/the/all believer argument on 10,000 days, samething there. When you say "wish it" when singing it the way Maynard is, sometimes an 'n' sound will come out. It doesnt mean that is what was intended. That is all this is and all it will ever be. Im just wondering if you, personally, gain something from him saying winch. Like does it make more sense to you? Or does it just confuse you that he would throw the word winch in there? It confuses me because it makes absolutely no sense. The whole 'wish' and 'jambi-the genie' connection has a new angle, its obvious that we need to throw in one of those SUV's with a winch on the front, pulling some other god-forsaken SUV out of a mudhole.....ahhhh, now I get it! ;)


on another note, is there a consesus on what he is saying at the end of the song?

It sounds like.

"Silence, leechers! Save your pressure!
Silence, leechers! Stay out of my wayyyyy!"

any thoughts?

[benjamin]

"...Silas legion, stave your poison!
Silas Lee just stay out of my way!"

Who's Silas Lee?!!!

[tuck]

"...Silas legion, stave your poison!
Silas Lee just stay out of my way!"

Who's Silas Lee?!!!

bahahahahaha

[benjamin]

Yeah! That was crazy, same post same time!!!

Mine IS a joke though.

I actually DON't hear the V sound in stave/save...

"Silently just say your poison. Silently just stay out of my way!"


I do like "leeches" ...I'm going to check that out....anything other than legions!!!!

[Terry21]

Silence Eugene Crabs!
Your poiscious silence
Eugene Crabs
Slaught off my waste!

[ThreeDeviations]

The "kang" post was just a mock at:

"Depending on what system you're playing the song on, it may vary at the exact time he says it... but I'll say it one more time because now people just assume I think he says "WINCH" all the time apparently. JC."

Unbelievable.

Foo Fighter. (not surprising)

Apparently you didn't comprehend what I was saying regarding the TIMING of when you hear the WINCH line.

The TIMING of WINCH differs by a couple seconds depending on which medium (Itunes, WMP, stereo etc) you're playing your cd on.

I never said you hear different things based on which medium you're using to play your cd.

yeah, unbelievable.

[ThreeDeviations]

winch.....lol When maynard sings, especially when he's really straining, his phoenetics get messed up a little. Just take a look at the non/the/all believer argument on 10,000 days, samething there. When you say "wish it" when singing it the way Maynard is, sometimes an 'n' sound will come out. It doesnt mean that is what was intended. That is all this is and all it will ever be. Im just wondering if you, personally, gain something from him saying winch. Like does it make more sense to you? Or does it just confuse you that he would throw the word winch in there? It confuses me because it makes absolutely no sense. The whole 'wish' and 'jambi-the genie' connection has a new angle, its obvious that we need to throw in one of those SUV's with a winch on the front, pulling some other god-forsaken SUV out of a mudhole.....ahhhh, now I get it! ;)


on another note, is there a consesus on what he is saying at the end of the song?

It sounds like.

"Silence, leechers! Save your pressure!
Silence, leechers! Stay out of my wayyyyy!"

any thoughts?

*yawn*

I've already said I don't know why he says it.

But yes, I do get 100,000 dollars if I get 5 people to finally hear it.

Straining? Ha. So now Maynard is "straining" during that part which causes the "n" sound? That's a good one. At least you hear the "n".. that's a start.

[ThreeDeviations]

Apparently not, seeing as no-one else hears it.


Oh, I see. We've been wasting space posting our own stupid worthless opinions, thereby preventing the legions of readers from noticing your own brilliant and insightful opinions, who would otherwise have been queuing up to support you in your impressive discovery of "winch".


Rhetoric? Where? Backtracking? Please show me where you think I have done this. I don't recall having backtracked on anything. I stand by every claim I've made here.

Oh, and after carefully explaining what I hear and why I think it's "away" rather than "awake", my observations are not even worthy of your time? OK. And yet we should all be paying careful attention to what you have to say about "winch"? Yeah, right.


It's not an "impressive" discovery. Anyone who actually listens can hear it.

Wasting time? You said nobody else supports it. Why don't you make up a poll then. We'll see how accurate your "nobody" holds up. (Especially when Benjamin already has acknowledged he/she hears it) Maybe I'll get some of my colleagues to sign up on TDN and acknowledge they hear it too. Apparently then, you'll finally be able to hear it.

Unlike you, I don't subscribe to the blind inertia zombie. I don't need to get the endorsement of others to have conviction in what I know to be true. Maybe your students fill that requirement for you.

[Terry21]

Foo Fighter. (not surprising)

Apparently you didn't comprehend what I was saying regarding the TIMING of when you hear the WINCH line.

The TIMING of WINCH differs by a couple seconds depending on which medium (Itunes, WMP, stereo etc) you're playing your cd on.

I never said you hear different things based on which medium you're using to play your cd.

yeah, unbelievable.

Sorry.

[tuck]

*yawn*

I've already said I don't know why he says it.

But yes, I do get 100,000 dollars if I get 5 people to finally hear it.

Straining? Ha. So now Maynard is "straining" during that part which causes the "n" sound? That's a good one. At least you hear the "n".. that's a start.

You are very e-expressive, congratulations on successfully capturing your bordem with my post.

Hmmmm, Poll time. Lets see whats more likely? Maynard straining during a song and the phoenetic pronucniation being screwed up a little bit or he actually says the word winch......guess which one wins in a blow out.

Good argument against the straining theory. "ha" always wins. You, sir, are brilliant. Come on think about this.....

The very reason discussions like this even start is because the way he pronounces things while he's singing. I cant even think of one song where at least one or two words (most of the time its half the song) gets lost behind some music or the pronunciation gets distorted because he singing in time with some crazy timing (part of their brilliance, by the way). So for you to just toss that aside like its not even a likely occurence just because you dont want to admit you are wrong is pretty intelluctually dishonest.

Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in poo poo.

[spacemonkeyadb]

Monkey! the way you put TOOL up on your sig. is fn badass!
Thanks, but I should point out it's not my creation. I just saw it on this site somewhere (bin maybe? I don't remember) and stole it for my sig.


Wasting time? You said nobody else supports it. Why don't you make up a poll then. We'll see how accurate your "nobody" holds up. (Especially when Benjamin already has acknowledged he/she hears it) Maybe I'll get some of my colleagues to sign up on TDN and acknowledge they hear it too. Apparently then, you'll finally be able to hear it.

Unlike you, I don't subscribe to the blind inertia zombie. I don't need to get the endorsement of others to have conviction in what I know to be true. Maybe your students fill that requirement for you.
I said that as of the time I was posting, no-one had agreed with you. Ben had only posted that IF it's there at all then it's the same for the first two. And I said that if no-one else here is hearing it too, then as an objective matter, it's just not as obvious as you seem to think.

But keep on misrepresenting others opinions, and laughing off as irrelevant the views of anyone and everyone who disagrees with you, if that makes you feel better about yourself.

Go ahead with a poll. That could be entertaining.

[spacemonkeyadb]

Dude! I don't even think the word winch can be used as a verb. In investigating, a little, I can ONLY find it as the noun, a cylinder w/ a rope/cord for towing/pulling...but it doesn't seem to discribe, by definition at least, the motion or technique or action of the device...

Winch (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/winch) can be a verb.

[ThreeDeviations]

You are very e-expressive, congratulations on successfully capturing your bordem with my post.

Hmmmm, Poll time. Lets see whats more likely? Maynard straining during a song and the phoenetic pronucniation being screwed up a little bit or he actually says the word winch......guess which one wins in a blow out.

Good argument against the straining theory. "ha" always wins. You, sir, are brilliant. Come on think about this.....

The very reason discussions like this even start is because the way he pronounces things while he's singing. I cant even think of one song where at least one or two words (most of the time its half the song) gets lost behind some music or the pronunciation gets distorted because he singing in time with some crazy timing (part of their brilliance, by the way). So for you to just toss that aside like its not even a likely occurence just because you dont want to admit you are wrong is pretty intelluctually dishonest.

Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in poo poo.

Straining? This isn't ticks and leeches.

I'd even say he's pretty relaxed at that part of the song as well... FAR from straining.

Also, he says "wish" VERY clearly 2 seconds later... so what happened, he wasn't straining that time?

I agree with you in that in a lot of songs he doesn't pronounce things very clearly... probably intentionally.

He's not likely to say "WISH" three times in a row... that's just how it is. Just how he is as a writer/artist.. WHETHER IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE OR NOT. Basically, your own argument supports that.

Take Jambi, this very song.

Damn my eyes...
Jam-bi eyes....
Dim my eyes

grammar gurus, why not tell me how jam-bi eyes makes perfect grammatical sense, since apparently everything that comes out of maynard's mouth has to make perfect sense on paper. (ya know, since he's writing an essay)

but the point is, Maynard is NOT likely to say "damn my eyes 3 times"... and he doesn't... he mixes in a DIM and a JAM... very subtlely.

Just like in prison sex when he says "close enough so I can SMELL you," the first time... then "close enough so I can DROWN you," the second time. Yet, in the official lyrics it's listed as "smell" both times. Granted, most of you will go listen to Undertow, and tell me I am wrong about that one too. That's fine. Just like I don't expect "winch" to show up in the official lyrics. I don't claim to know why he says it.. probably just to throw a subtle twist in there... knowing most people won't hear it anyhow.

Drown
I have a hard on for you
Winch
Sense your enemy

Just a few that come to mind off the top-

and by the way... their crazy time signatures which help make them brilliant... well, there was and is nothing "crazy" going on during the winch part... no tricky timing where he had to get creative to keep pace.

[ThreeDeviations]

But keep on misrepresenting others opinions, and laughing off as irrelevant the views of anyone and everyone who disagrees with you, if that makes you feel better about yourself.


Mine are the ones that get misrepresented more than anyone else's.

Laughing does make me feel better. But no, I realize I'm still a toothless loser despite all the humor I am afforded on TDN.

[ThreeDeviations]

Oh, the Ignorant fuck, which is threedeviations just had another outlandish, irrelevant idea...

Caskets. Machines lower them.. machines that have a WINCH.

Caskets. Machines lower them.. machines that have a WINCH.

Caskets. Machines lower them.. machines that have a WINCH.

Sincerely,
Judith Marie

[benjamin]

Winch (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/winch) can be a verb.

I still love my old PAPER dic. ... the one that makes sense ...the one where flippants is a plural noun and winch is not a verb, pre 73'

[PhiRatio]

i hear winch, too.

"caskets. machines lower them.. machines that have a WINCH."

then threedeviations goes and fucks me sideways with a line like that. it's undeniable. put your listening ears on, kids.

winch it away.

[ThreeDeviations]

i hear winch, too.

"caskets. machines lower them.. machines that have a WINCH."

then threedeviations goes and fucks me sideways with a line like that. it's undeniable. put your listening ears on, kids.

winch it away.

One emerges from the woodwork.

Not surprised you're the first, Phi. Seem pretty logical..

Only a matter of time and humility before more appear...

Oh, btw...

NOW
it's
IMPRESSIVE.

Maybe later I'll give a thorough explanation of the rest of the song now.

[ThreeDeviations]

Hey Phi.

Which then leads us into another relationship that had a bearing on this song, the one between himself and Judith Marie. If you start that line of thinking inserting Mayanrd as the benevolent son, by extension, the general themes of division and wishing it all away fall into place rather neatly around Maynard's separation from his mother.


This is exactly what the song is about. (So no more Jambi, Indo talk)

Maynard being the "benevolent son."

I'll keep this pretty concise..

Here from the king's mountain view...
Here from the wild dream come true
Feast like a sultan I do
on treasures and flesh never few
But I,
I would
wish it all away if I thought I'd lose you... just one day

--- Maynard saying he has it all... life of luxury.. can have whatever he wants, whoever he wants, whenever he wants. But he would gladly trade it all away in a moment's notice if it meant he could have his mother back with him.

The devil and his had me doubt...
In love with the dark side I'd found
Dabblin' all the way down
Up to my neck soon to drown
but you changed that all for me
lifted me up, turned me 'round.

------ The wrong things influenced him for too long.. bogged him down. But he embraced all the pleasure on this downward spiral.. he eventually would've sunk entirely into the quicksand of Satan if his mother hadn't lifted him out.

Brave like a martyr dusk till dawn
Beg like a hooker all night long

------ Maynard's sarcastic perspective of his mother's devout love for her god.

Shout to the devil with my psalm
and got what I wanted all alone

------ Maynard's drastically different stance on his "god" at the time.

But I
and I would
if I could
'n I would
wish it away
Winch it away
wish it all away

------ The primary word in all of that being "could." He realizes he cannot change anything at this point. It's the past. She's gone. But if he could have her back, he'd certainly give away everything he has.

------ Obviously, the winch it away part as well. Reflecting on her burial. "Winch it away." The "it" is the casket... but still playing off the "wish" sequence.

wanna wish it all away

----- present tense. He'd erase a lot of the old memories.. due to his lack of respect for his mother's beliefs.

No prophet could hone, sway, or justify my giving away my center..
SO if I could I'd wish it all away if I thought tomorrow would take you away. You're my peace of mind my all/om my center/saturn.. 'just trying to hold on one more day.

---- The first line is a statement in reflection, relative to his mother's devotion to her beliefs in her god and religion. He's saying, there's nothing anyone could say associated with a church (or god) that could change the way I feel inside. I'd never give away my center (his heart) despite what anyone told him..

"SO" being an important word, because he now realizes he was wrong...

His mom is his peace of mind... his everything... and without her, everyday is a struggle.

Damn my eyes
Jam-bi eyes
Dim my eyes if they should compromise our fulcrum.. if wanton needs divide me then I might as well be gone...

---- Basically asking his mom to strike him dead if he ever is blinded by the temptation of Satan, again. He still has a relationship with his mom even though she has passed... and he refuses to let the devil interfere with the balance between them.

Now... the 2nd half of the song starts....

Note the abrupt (intentional) change in music at exactly 3:44 (at least on Itunes) which is EXACTLY half way through the song.. Symbolic of change. A change he made about half-way through his life. A symbol of his Before and After. Before and after Judith's passing. The change in him... symbolized through the timing.

Second part is a conversation between self and mom more or less.

Shine on benevolent son.
Shine down upon the broken/severed.
Shine until the two become one.

---- basically maynard singing what his mother's advice to him would be... simply,
"help yourself and others while you're alive."

Divided I'm withering away.

----- Him desperately missing her.

Shine down upon the many, light our ways, benevolent son.

----- Let your new attitude be felt and heard by others.. humanity.

Breathe in union... x4
Pray in union, final time.

----- Just more about unity... being in sync with his mom... and unity with each other as human beings.

so, as one, survive another day and season.

----- Each day without her is a struggle. But they'll get through it together.

Silence, Legion. Save your poison.
Silence Legion, and stay out of my way.

----- Maynard speaking to the devil.

[Terry21]

Now, seriously, the fun ends, stop this bullshit.

[spacemonkeyadb]

This is exactly what the song is about...
OK, nothing stupid about that (with the exception of "winch" as a deliberately spoken word). A well thought out interpretation.

The biggest problem for me in accepting such an interpretation is that it would give us three (very long) songs in a row on the album, all about his mother. Given that this song is lyrically very open to interpretation, I feel that it is more likely to be based on his feelings towards someone else.

[BlanketEffect]

OK, nothing stupid about that (with the exception of "winch" as a deliberately spoken word). A well thought out interpretation.


I agree.

[benjamin]

Now, seriously, the fun ends, stop this bullshit.


Amen brother...y'all seem to have forgotten who your speaking of...
I'll tell you right now, Maynard does not feel that he was a blasphemous devil worshipping glutton of kingly treasures, now soo repentant of his past.

Yes, i know he is singing it...

no I've never met the guy...

and yes, my assertions are correct.

[BlanketEffect]

Yes, i know he is singing it...

no I've never met the guy...

and yes, my assertions are correct.

Ignorance must be contagious *grins*

[benjamin]

OK, nothing stupid about that (with the exception of "winch" as a deliberately spoken word). A well thought out interpretation.

The biggest problem for me in accepting such an interpretation is that it would give us three (very long) songs in a row on the album, all about his mother. Given that this song is lyrically very open to interpretation, I feel that it is more likely to be based on his feelings towards someone else.

I agree w/ spacemonkeyabd, Wings 1&2 definitely does, fully encompass the feelings toward Judith.

[spacemonkeyadb]

I agree w/ spacemonkeyabd, Wings 1&2 definitely does, fully encompass the feelings toward Judith.
Thankyou.

Amen brother...y'all seem to have forgotten who your speaking of...
I'll tell you right now, Maynard does not feel that he was a blasphemous devil worshipping glutton of kingly treasures, now soo repentant of his past.

Agreed. I don't think he has repented or is regretting anything. I'm sure he would love to continue such a lifestyle, yet he has found these things have come into conflict with who he needs to be for his son. Hence the tension expressed in the song - If he had repented there would be no problem. He wouldn't need to dim (damn) his eyes at all, but he does because he still wants these things. He knows that he has to give some things up, things that he still wants, and yet he is completely willing to do so and wish them all away, because his son means so much more to him than any of those things.

[BlanketEffect]

I would like to make the statement that the album is called "10,000 Days" - so don't assume that two songs is enough to wrap up the whole sentiment. There's no reason that the entire album couldn't be tied to Judith or his feelings for her (with a couple notable exceptions - Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned)

Just remember, the album is a tribute to her, as the title implies. There isn't a limit as to how many songs can be about her.

[BlanketEffect]

He knows that he has to give some things up, things that he still wants, and yet he is completely willing to do so and wish them all away, because his son means so much more to him than any of those things.

This referring to the role as a father to Devo.

'If wanton needs divide me then I might as well be gone.'

Saying if the lifestyle of sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll (that I still desire or at least miss to a degree) divide who I am and need to be I could just as well not even be here. I need to give up my wanton needs and change into the benevolent son that will guide him through.

[ThreeDeviations]

I would like to make the statement that the album is called "10,000 Days" - so don't assume that two songs is enough to wrap up the whole sentiment. There's no reason that the entire album couldn't be tied to Judith or his feelings for her (with a couple notable exceptions - Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned)

Just remember, the album is a tribute to her, as the title implies. There isn't a limit as to how many songs can be about her.

good point

[benjamin]

good point

yes
yes
good
good
point
point
point

And it's about
Angst toward "mainstream" civilization
Vicarious
?Jambi?
The Pot
Mankinds evolutionary processes
?Jambi?
Intension
Right In Two
Mankinds continuing evolutionary process
Wings...
10k Days
?Lost Keys?
Roseta Stoned

And yes, of course the whole thing is pry tied together in ways we have not directly and fully appreciated.

Oh boy...

EDIT: ...and why couldn't Lost keys-Roseta Stoned be bout ma too???
...footinmouth?

[PhiRatio]

I would like to make the statement that the album is called "10,000 Days" - so don't assume that two songs is enough to wrap up the whole sentiment. There's no reason that the entire album couldn't be tied to Judith or his feelings for her (with a couple notable exceptions - Lost Keys/Rosetta Stoned)

Just remember, the album is a tribute to her, as the title implies. There isn't a limit as to how many songs can be about her.


I agree.

[Underalus]

the last lyric is absolutely:

"Silence legion, save your PRAISE AND silently just stay out of my way".

[ThreeDeviations]

the last lyric is absolutely:

"Silence legion, save your PRAISE AND silently just stay out of my way".

incorrect sir, absolutely

[BlanketEffect]

Yeah, I have heard people suggest that the last word of the first line is 'praise' or that they hear a 'pr' sound in front of the word.

I've listened to it on numerous speakers and systems and on headphones at many different EQ settings - I can't hear anything but a resounding clear "Poison" or at least a total lack of the "pr" sound and a clear "poy" sound.

So either I'm hearing things more clearly than they are, or they're hearing things more clearly than I am. But who is right?!?!? Who's hearing is superior?!?!

Just for the record, my opinion is:

"Silence Legion, save your poison
Silently just stay out of my way!"

[benjamin]

Sertainly, B-2the-E, if you're hearing "we'an", you must agree, there's no V sound in "save" the first line.

My opinion is

Silently just say your poison
Silently just stay out of my way

[spacemonkeyadb]

How do you silently say something? Isn't that just a little contradictory?

I can sometimes hear the "we'an" sound (Wings Pt2) depending on my speaker and equalizer settings, but it disappears when I max the treble and adjust to focus the sound on the vocals. So I think it's just the music interfering with what he's saying.

[benjamin]

"Shirley! You can't be serious?"

"Hey, that beer's gonna get warm man. One thing I can't FUCKIN STAND!! Is warm beer it makes me fuckin PUKE!"

Well, let's say someone is yelling and carryin on, you could tell them.

"Silently. Just say your poison."

It's not like he's saying (nor am I contending) silently just shout your poison.

BTW Do you have 2 cents on the V sound ...

Peace.

[BlanketEffect]

Yeah, the 'v' sound is iffy, but I can hear it on headphones enough that I can say it's not certain one way or the other.

But, 'Silence, Legion! Save your poison!' makes a lot more sense to me than 'Silently just say your poison' - How does one silently say their poison? Contrasting, 'Silence, Legion; save your poison' would link back to the earlier lyrics about him getting what he wanted by making a deal with the devil, or whatever, you get the idea. The song isn't that ambiguous about its meaning, even if a few of the lyrics are still in dispute. So at the end he's telling the devil (Legion) to keep its mouth shut and stop offering these things, this poison, and just move out of the way so he can carry on with what he must do.

The 'n' sound at the end of 'Legion' or 'leech and', I can hear very clearly. On most sound setups and speakers I cannot hear it clearly, if at all, but on my MP3 player/headphones it's clear and obvious. So much so that I will say that if you can't hear it, then it's a product of your equipment - And this is nothing personal, I don't care if you have a $19,000 speaker system in your car or $5 PC speakers; if you can't hear the 'n' sound, it's because of your system, not because it's not there. I've got a fairly decent home surround system and I can't hear it at all on that - but my $10 headphones bring it through loud and clear.

Your post made me go back and re-listen to it several times, though, and I'd like to change my opinion. Now I feel that I am hearing:

Silence, Legion! Save your poison!
Silence, Legion! Stay out of my way!

[benjamin]

LOL! I guess I'm the only one with a spouse/friend (wife) that mutters "bitter-nothings" under thier (her) breath before/during/after an arguement...(Wench)(laugh with me, or I'll get in trouble when she posts...)

N-sound, meh. I felt that he didn't want to enunciate the "st" in just...

Legion="the devil and his" ...you can't argue w/ reason.
















But I can.

Peace.

[ThreeDeviations]

Silence, Legion! Save your poison!
Silence, Legion! Stay out of my way!

You've made a correct change.

"myself"... that's oxymoronic.

On a sidenote, thank you James Cameron for not naming it "The Titanic."

[whooz]

I'm a fan of "Leech and" but either one works and fits the song.

But "Legion" is a cooler word so I'll think I'll switch.

[Tinman]

It's obvious that the most important disputed lyric in this song is

"Damn my eyes"

/

"Dim my eyes"

/

"George Bush lies"

and that's all that we should be discussing, really.

[duncang]

It's obvious that the most important disputed lyric in this song is

"Damn my eyes"

/

"Dim my eyes"

/

"George Bush lies"

and that's all that we should be discussing, really.


You could have picked a less stupid first post.

[BlanketEffect]

Perhaps he couldn't. Ergo, you are reading it now.

[Brad the impaler]

Well, I'm pretty much certain that line "shout to the devil with my song" is horridly wrong. Replace it with "tempted the devil...yadayadayada" and see if it doesnt sound better, as well as make sense.

[benjamin]

Well, I'm pretty much certain that line "shout to the devil with my song" is horridly wrong. Replace it with "tempted the devil...yadayadayada" and see if it doesnt sound better, as well as make sense.

Well, it's definitely not "tempted",(imo) sounds more like "Shemp did" than tempted. I'd side w/ "Chapter", "Shout to", or even "Shafted", before I would think it's tempted. BTW I'd also say all 4-o-these have been in contention all along, so saying this thread's "horridly wrong." is a bit of an over-statement.

Peace.

[benjamin]

You could have picked a less stupid first post.

Damn!






My eyes

[one_reflection]

i have been reading for quite some time so as not to miss anything (important?) and can see that three deviations continues to make (interesting?) suggestions since i first read something a while ago..

I cant agree with Psalm. Although things dont have to rhyme, dawn (short 'on' sound), long and along all rhyme... there is obviously a pattern and Psalm doesnt fit it. Also, even though everyone seems to be done with aruging about this one, i must contribute my 2cents. "my song" does not need to refer to the one he is singing (someone already said this i think). He is recounting something whether real or not. He doesnt say "tempted...with this song". It could very well be a personal 'song' and it might not even be a song in the sense that we know it.

A comment on the "brave" instead of "pray/ed" Why would someone "brave" dusk til dawn -- it doesnt make sense.

Winch. No. You try and say "wish" forcefully the way Maynard does. WI-sh... (yes i am sitting here ridiculously saying it over and over trying to find the best way to explain it -- its not working). Anyway, try it. When your mouth/voice changes from the WI to the 'sh', it is different - it doesnt just flow like when you say wish normally. There is sort of a 'catching' which is what i beleive is the 'n' that you seem to be hearing.

Lastly.. I cant hear poison. I dont know exactly what i hear, but someone mentioned 'pressure' earlier. This is more like the sound i hear. I have been singing "Silently just save your precious..." But then i dont know where it would logically go from there. I did think "...precious silence" but im also hearing "Silently just stay out of my/mind". Although "precious silence" sounds right for a moment i do her the "ly" afterwards.

Can anyone have a listen and see if they can hear what im hearing? Im not saying thats what it is, but thats all i seem to be hearing and it doesnt completely make sense to me.

Thanks :)

[ThreeDeviations]

Thanks :)

you're welcome

:)

glad to help you out.

[benjamin]

A comment on the "brave" instead of "pray/ed" Why would someone "brave" dusk til dawn -- it doesnt make sense.

)


"Brave like a myrter dusk to dawn"

This guy isn't "BraveING" he just IS brave, like a myrter. And it most definitely is "dusk to dawn" not dusk till dawn.

Peace.

[BlanketEffect]

Prayed like a martyr - Begged like a hooker = same thing

Dusk to dawn - All night long = same thing

I think he's trying to illustrate the sameness of praying and begging, not drawing a comparison and difference.

EDIT: Brave?

Since 'dusk to dawn' and 'all night long' mean more or less the same thing...

sooooo.... Brave like a martyr that begs like a hooker all night? No.

[ThreeDeviations]

Prayed like a martyr - Begged like a hooker = same thing

Dusk to dawn - All night long = same thing

I think he's trying to illustrate the sameness of praying and begging, not drawing a comparison and difference.

EDIT: Brave?

Since 'dusk to dawn' and 'all night long' mean more or less the same thing...

sooooo.... Brave like a martyr that begs like a hooker all night? No.

Phi Ratio has already pointed this out

[benjamin]

Prayed like a martyr - Begged like a hooker = same thing

Dusk to dawn - All night long = same thing

I think he's trying to illustrate the sameness of praying and begging, not drawing a comparison and difference.

EDIT: Brave?

Since 'dusk to dawn' and 'all night long' mean more or less the same thing...

sooooo.... Brave like a martyr that begs like a hooker all night? No.


I've posted the same analysis also, but he says brave. It's distinct as hell!

The only "rationalization" I can give, is that maybe he's pointing out that a hooker has to be just as brave as a myrter.

[benjamin]

sooooo.... Brave like a martyr that begs like a hooker all night? No.

I don't understand when people put the shit together like this, it does not help your point... not to me anyhow.

No.

[one_reflection]

you're welcome

:)

glad to help you out.

Hmm.. sorry i dont want to seem rude - I was more thanking in advance for my last paragraph, if anyone could listen and tell me why i cant hear poison and hear something more like precious (unless thats the 'helping out' you meant ThreeDeviations). If anyone can help out that'd be cool. Thanks (in advance).


"Brave like a myrter dusk to dawn"

This guy isn't "BraveING" he just IS brave, like a myrter. And it most definitely is "dusk to dawn" not dusk till dawn.

Peace.

Sorry, i wasnt saying it is 'til' not 'to'. Just typing up in a hurry and i sing 'to' sometimes and 'til' others. I guess the latter was in my head at the time :p Also, just to be picky (in a nice way) its 'martyr'.

:)

[benjamin]

You're way too kind.
"fowl, barrow, myrter." ...there's even more.

I hate me.
(#%*!)

[IC]

so you all think it is Damn My Eyes, not Jam-bi ?

definatly Damn. not dim. not jam..bi. Not Dan. Its Damn. come on now.

[Tinman]

You could have picked a less stupid first post.


That's a shame.

Anyway one way to make it easier to hear Maynard's lyrics is using your stereo or media player's equalizer to turn down the other components of the music (especially the lower frequencies). Don't know if someone has already pointed this out.

And about "til" or "to," I keep hearing "til."

[benjamin]

And I keep going bald. How about this, do you hear him say "sever" and not severed?

[benjamin]

In this live bit:

http://media.putfile.com/2006-4-30Jambi-dvn

(Hope there's no problem me linking to that)

.

You know what. I was just perusing and I clicked upon this and I thought to my self "BARF!! I feel bad for the poor folks that saw Tool in this sorry state." But, now, I felt the need to post this cause, well, I almost can't beleive this is even Tool at all, this sounds like a bunch of my friends doing a cover of it, and I'm not friends w/ profesionals either, just guys w/ local bands. I dunno, I guess I'm just glad I wasn't at that show.

[nickknocker]

legion and the devils connect

i think it makes sense if he's speaking directly to the legion, or even referring to them as the silent legion.

damn...i always thought he was saying

"silently, just save your poison
silently, just stay out of my way"

but i can definitely hear now...as well as it can be heard:

"Silence, legion, stay/save your poison
Silence, legion stay out of my way"

though, the save/stay part is weird, it doesnt sound like he's saying either, really. maybe it's a soft v or t sound...i have this feeling he's not saying that at all

it would still have to be something like

"Silence, legion (say your?) (poise/place?) and
Silence, legion stay out of my way"

can defnitely hear the -ce end of silence both times. and it wouldnt be "just" because there is defnitely an n sound at the end of both "legion"s

I'm a big fan of either "(?) poise and", "(?) place and", or "stay/save your poison"

Honestly, I'd go with the third.

Haha, i'm totally just thinking out loud.

oy....EDIT:

even though i think he says silence on the album version, the coachella verision says:
Silent, legion, say your poison
Silent, legion, stay out of my way

done.

[benjamin]

Yeah, one_reflection was looking for anything other than poison, I'm always open for a challenge...cudos on "poise and" I hadn't thought of that. I like that.
Silence! Lead, just stay your poise, and
Silently just stay out of my way
...meh, this is a little oxymoronic (I don't know how a thing can be "a little" oxymoronic, but...) to say, like a battle cry maybe?

You know, though, when your jamin along in your car or such and singing w/, it's pretty easy to say: (and this has the actual bonus of additionally making sense)

Silence legion stay your poise and
Silence legion stay out of my way!

[fawks]

I know Maynard mixes his lyrics up a bit when singing live, but from every live version ive heard it hasnt sounded anything else except, "silence legion, save your poison.....", and it sounds that way to me on the disk too

[BlanketEffect]

Yeah, thusfar I've been unable to hear 'stay' rather than 'save'... two factors:

A) I can't hear the "t" sound in 'stay'
B) I hear the "v" sound in 'save'

On a sidenote, 'stay your poise' is a cool alternative (in the literary sense) but I don't think it's at all what he's actually vocalizing.

[benjamin]

In considering "poise and", I've reinforced it like this:
shine down upon the MANY light OUR ways...PREY in union so...silence legion stay your poise and...
Sort of primal, like a lioness-hunter/mentor, "just stay out of my way!" It's good imagery that way.
Meh, I don't hear the t-sound in stay though. In fact, I don't hear the v-sound either, that's why I sing it as "silently just say your poison", it's a "personal" interp. I know, but it's also how I hear it, so... wtf ?

[Kishijra v1.1]

Just jumping in, not arguing with anybody, just trying to help -

I am 99.9% sure it's "Tempted the devil with my song". That's been bugging me to see on the lyrics page for a while.

Also I can't possibly hear "dim my eyes" although for a long time, I did think it was "Jam-by-eye" [phonetically speaking, of course], and now I've settled comfortably on "Damn my eyes!" It makes a nice exclamation + I know the feeling of seeing something altogether too painful that upsets the balance of everything, so it resonates with me...

anyway, that's my hill o'beans right there.

[Kishijra v1.1]

and sorry for the double post, but how does this sound?

"Breathe in union,
so as one survive another day,
and seasoned silent legions ["seasoned" as in "battle-tested" or "experienced"],
save your poisoned silent legions,
stay out of my way!"

I can't go with "silently just stay out of my way" because there's the slightest breath pause between "silent" and "legions" - if it were "silently" there would be an awkward break between "silent-" and "-ly".

[lilypie]

I would like to say, first of all, I believe the word is Son, not sun. The reason I say this is because this cd seems to have more Christian references.

Divided, withering away instead of divide and wither.

Pray in union instead of Breath in union.

Also, I think it is Damn my eyes, Jam my eyes, Jam my eyes if they should compromise...

Silently just say your prayers, Silently just stay out of my way.

[Steedus]

forgive if this has been mentioned already, or even if the posted lyrics have already said it, my browser is being silly so i can't check, but i believe this line:
"Shine down upon the severed" is acutally "shine down upon the sever"
shine down upon the sever until the two become one, ie shine until the sever is healed.

yeah?

(i'm also with lilipie i think it's Son not sun. i think this song is about the exsanguination of the USA and the idea that it's headed in the same direction as.... drumroll............
JAMBI!)

[spacemonkeyadb]

^ I don't think "sever" is a noun dude.

[Steedus]

tell that to maynard, if you hear a D on the end of that word in the song then your mind is playing trix on you, there's no D sound to be heard, not even a soft one.

besides i think it's more in reference to the process of severence, rather than the thing itself. i agree i don't think it is a noun, but i don't think it matters

schism would be a synonym i guess.

[BlanketEffect]

The broken: The severed - both past tense referant nouns. --- He's saying 'severed' --- if you can't hear it, it's your setup. Not saying your system isn't great, just saying if I *can* hear it on my system, you just don't have yours set to that which will allow you to hear it.

Sun/Son - I think it is 'son' also, but I believe it's intentionally a double-meaning, so really, it's both. But, the 'son' could refer to Jesus (the opposer of ''the devil and his''and "Legion") or it could refer to Devo, his son, as the one that "changed it all" for him. Also, there is the clear imagery of the actual 'sun' shining down.

Damn/Jam/Dim>>>

Dim my eyes
Damn my eyes (with 'Jam-bye-eyes' being sung more quietly on another vocal track; the "B" sound is undeniable)
Damn my eyes if they should...

BUT, when the officials are released, sound of the "B" be damned, there won't be anything in it about "Jambi eyes" - it's just a secondary track.

[dusanm]

Here are, as I believe, the exact lyrics:
Here from the king's mountain view
Here from the wild dream come true
Feast like a sultan I do
On treasures and flesh, never few.

But I, I would wish it all away
If I thought I'd Lose you just one day

The devil AND his had me down
IN love WITH the dark side I'd found.
Dabble in all the way down
Up to my neck soon to drown.

But you changed that all for me
Lifted me up, turned me round
So I
I
I
I
I would
I would
I would
Wish this all away

Prayed like a father dusk to dawn
Beg like a hooker all night long
Tempted the devil with my song
And got what I wanted all along

But I
And I would
If I could
And I would
Wish it away
Wish it away
Wish it all away
Wanna wish it all away
No prize that could hold sway
Or justify my giving away
my center

So if I could I'd wish it all away
If I thought tomorrow would take you away
You're my peace of mind, my home, my center
I'm just trying to hold on
One more day

Dim my eyes
Dim my eyes

Dim my eyes if they should compromise
our fulcrum what you need divides me then
I might as well be gone

Shine on forever
Shine on benevolent son

Shine down upon the broken
Shine until the two become one

Shine on forever
Shine on benevolent son

Shine on upon the severed
Shine until the two become one

Divided I'm withering away
Divide and I'm withering away

Shine on upon the many, light our way
Benevolent son

Breathe in union
Breathe in union
Breathe in union
Breathe in union
Breathe in union
So as one survive
Another day and season

Silence leech, and save your poison
Silence leech, and stay out of my way

[Steedus]

Sever

[Repeat Experiments]

"Damn my eyes if they should compromize, a fulcrum, want you, need you by me, then I might as well be gone"

[There is no spoon]

new correction....

instead of...
No prize that could hold sway
Or justify my giving away
my center



I really think it's this....

No preassure
could hold, sway, or justify
my kneelin away my sinnin'

Listen to it now...

[BlanketEffect]

" sinnin' " - maybe, though it's not what I hear.

Pressure? - nah, I hear the "z" sound to dominantly - and no one says 'prezzure' - not even Maynard.

And I don't think the general thought here is "No prize that..." - it's "No prize here..." - I think 'prize here' is where you're getting 'pressure' - but there's still that "z" sound to account for. - 'prize here'.

[There is no spoon]

I don't know about "prize here". I'm open to anyhting though. It's all up in the air until the official lyrics come out. Maynard does pronounce some things in his own special way, so nothing surprises me anymore.

Kneelin away my sinnin still is what i hear. Now I can't wait for the official lyrics

[BlanketEffect]

Yeah, I think most of the songs are now as close to figured out as is possible before the man sends in the officials - anything at this point is really just an argument (and a useless one, at that) about whose hearing is better.

[BlanketEffect]

Oh wow, I get to be an asshole - 1,000th reply is mine, bitches.

[There is no spoon]

Congrats

[LRonHubbard]

some of you people complicate the simplest of lyrics...

[Ænimic4six1]

from what i listened,and listened

i guess it sounds like
"silently just say/save your poison,
silently just stay hell off my way"

as stay rhymes with say,
i guess say is the correct word

[Right In Spew]

'Jambi' is an old Majikal term also, meaning God. Just wanted to throw that in the mix.