Source of leak?

[daveelton]

While I have not yet seen any convincing argument that the leak is a decoy, I also have not heard any good reason as to why this leak occured in the first place, if not intentional by the band. My understanding is that no outlets have recieved copies of the album yet, and that even reviewers have not actually been given a physical copy of the album. Like I said, I do not think what we have is a decoy, but, in trying to be open minded to both sides of the story, I'd like to know what others think about this. I'm guessing that I'm just wrong in assuming that nobody anywhere has obtained a copy of the album, but I'd like to see some reasoning beyond that... in other words, who would have been able to get their hands on this album? Feel free to speculate, but if you choose to do so, please make it clear - and at the same time, please source any "facts" or evidence. Please try to keep this thread clear of "this album is too great to be a decoy" or "this album sucks too much to not be a decoy" or "blair said x in y newsletter" etc... I'd just like to know more about who could have possibly gotten and leaked this album.

[Zeradin]

Maybe someone that works at the cd printing factory? I don't pretend to know how airtight the whole travel from studio to store is... my guess it that it involves a lot of people.

[daveelton]

Maybe someone that works at the cd printing factory? I don't pretend to know how airtight the whole travel from studio to store is... my guess it that it involves a lot of people.

Yeah, I had thought about this, I don't really know if they do inventory checks to make sure the number of copies there were supposed to be made are actually all accounted for at the end of the day or anything like that.

[G|Sus]

If I've understood right the pattern is from record company -> distributors -> stores? I'm not sure how it works worldwide but here retailers get this particular cd/dv-a/whatever only few hours before store is opened (previous night or something).
Doesnt matter how much its been debated here already but it still keeps me wondering why such secrecy when the album's leaked...
.....May 2nd....

[neognosis]

m4a format = itunes

[McHuj]

Yeah, I had thought about this, I don't really know if they do inventory checks to make sure the number of copies there were supposed to be made are actually all accounted for at the end of the day or anything like that.


I wonder when they actually start making the CDs. From what I've seen from the web services, you can place orders for a CD duplication, churning out 100,000 CDs in about a week. (Even less time if you pay extra).

Honestly, I am very surprised the CD press company got a copy of 10,000 Days that early. I figured to minimize the time until the leak, the CDs wouldn't be pressed that far in advance, more like a week before.

Given the right price, it's possible to do the CD pressing and shipments to the distrocenters the week of the release.

The only thing (I think) that would take time is the actual packaging, which is suprising that there haven't been good leaks/scans of it.

[MorfiusX]

I used to work a CD store. Depending on the title and how "hot" it was, we usually got the album the day before it was released on monday. Every now and then we would get something two days early. (I know this is a bad example) One of the "hot" titles was some new back-door boys CD. We got that the day before at around 5:30. From talking to vendors, an average album starts pressing about two weeks before release. They start shipping usually the friday before release. But, this new Tool ablum is anything but typical.

[Locarius]

Well a scene rip just surfaced, so say goodbye to any theories about the band leaking it. It's out, and it's one disc.

[ethos]

The leak originated on a private torrent site, the person who upped said they did not have an actual copy of the CD, but wouldn't tell me anymore than that. This led to a lot of speculation that the leak we have was a copy of a copy.

Also strange that we still have yet to see any other rip of the album surface. I see lots of transcodes, but why don't we have another rip yet? Strange.

[daveelton]

Well a scene rip just surfaced, so say goodbye to any theories about the band leaking it. It's out, and it's one disc.

link? (to proof, not the rip)

[researchtriangle]

Has anyone compared the radio version of Vicarious, mix wise, to the leaked version? Discrepancies besides the usual radio vs. cd quality?

[ethos]

Well a scene rip just surfaced, so say goodbye to any theories about the band leaking it. It's out, and it's one disc.

Yep. That ends just about everything. Start counting down until the 16th...

[McHuj]

Well a scene rip just surfaced, so say goodbye to any theories about the band leaking it. It's out, and it's one disc.

Discernable difference in quality or no?

[Locarius]

Yes, it sounds much better. I havn't heard enough to comment on the mastering, but the rip is phenominal. Not lossless, but good.

[ethos]

Well, now all debate can end. As most had said, what we heard is the real deal.

*sigh*

[zet]

Well a scene rip just surfaced, so say goodbye to any theories about the band leaking it. It's out, and it's one disc.

Why would this be the goodbye to the/a decoy theory?

Let me be clear here: I think there is some pretty clever playing going on here, and releasing / leaking some more rips, preferably more towards the release date of higher bitrates and less lossy compression, ( and around the world for that matter) would only make the impact of the real deal more deeper.

I expect several "new rips""and ISO's to appear.

Cheers,

z

[ethos]

It's a scene release. That's why.

[Locarius]

Occam's Razor.

[soydeedo]

except this is from one of the biggest mp3 groups out there and i doubt tool handed this over to them just to con us all.

edit: yeah what ethos said. =P

[JayCal]

It's a scene release. That's why.

I'm not familiar with that stuff, does that mean it *definitely* has to be the retail version that's appearing in stores next week? Why wasn't the artwork included in the torrent file?

[ethos]

I'm not familiar with that stuff, does that mean it *definitely* has to be the retail version that's appearing in stores next week? Why wasn't the artwork included in the torrent file?

Not "Definitely" but more than likely, yes. I don't know how often artwork is included.

[zet]

It's a scene release. That's why.

What's a scene release? (sorry, English is not my native language)

Z

[JayCal]

It means it was released by a warez group. And this is a big, respected group.

[gem_37]

Why would this be the goodbye to the/a decoy theory?

Let me be clear here: I think there is some pretty clever playing going on here, and releasing / leaking some more rips, preferably more towards the release date of higher bitrates and less lossy compression, ( and around the world for that matter) would only make the impact of the real deal more deeper.

I expect several "new rips""and ISO's to appear.

Cheers,

z

I thinks it a decoy. some of the tunes are real and other ar not.. botril would never put out anything as shoddy as that as the final master. if you listen to what has been running round the net and you know anything about producing you will hear that most of the tunes are shody.. his vocals give it way..

Just my opinion is all.

[daveelton]

Is there any difference in quality? I'm curious to know if we can say for sure it is a different "rip" than the one that we have all heard.

[daveelton]

I thinks it a decoy. some of the tunes are real and other ar not.. botril would never put out anything as shoddy as that as the final mater. if you listen to what has been running round the net and you know anything about producing you will hear that most of the tunes are shody.. his vocals give it way..

Just my opinion is all.

While I respect your opinion, I would like to request we keep this thread related to the topic of the leak itself... there are countless other threads where your post is more on-topic.

[trisw]

The Scene release would include a .nfo file. the first release didnt. all thats being thrown out there right now are recompressed files of the original .m4a files.

[gem_37]

compare what u have to another tool album .. rip a tune to mp3 and listen to the diff... levels in what i have heard arnt right.

[gem_37]

While I respect your opinion, I would like to request we keep this thread related to the topic of the leak itself... there are countless other threads where your post is more on-topic.

soz im new here . will do

but i think the leak was intentional

[Masses]

The Scene release would include a .nfo file. the first release didnt. all thats being thrown out there right now are recompressed files of the original .m4a files.

So this applies to the most recent release that you guys are talking about?

[JayCal]

The Scene release would include a .nfo file. the first release didnt. all thats being thrown out there right now are recompressed files of the original .m4a files.

00-tool-10000_days-2006.nfo

[zet]

It means it was released by a warez group. And this is a big, respected group.

ok, thanks for the education ;-)

Now that I know what a scene rip is, I have the following question: Why is the fact that a respectable warez group releases this, proof that this is the real deal?

IF you wanted to pull this off (I'm using a bigger IF than I did 15 minutes ago, admittedly) you would want to have such groups do some releasing for you, wouldnt you?

Thanks,

z

[JayCal]

As far as I know, it signifies that these set of songs exist as a retail CD which will be released next week.

[Locarius]

You are grasping at straws. A known warez group would want nothing to do with any record co.

[Masses]

What this means is that there is a physical CD out there in the form of 10,000 days. Whether this is the CD that will be released on May 2nd, or more importantly, the album that they worked the past 5 years on, is besides the point.

[Cemetery Shindig]

What this means is that there is a physical CD out there in the form of 10,000 days. Whether this is the CD that will be released on May 2nd, or more importantly, the album that they worked the past 5 years on, is besides the point.

You mean the past 2 and a half years, roughly.

[Masses]

maybe. i thought maynard said that this album took 9-12 months to make?

[zet]

A known warez group would want nothing to do with any record co.

I understand that fully.

But, how difficult would it be for tool/reccompany to get a bogus set out to such a group? (not hardware, but just the digital form, ISO or high-res rip). I dont think it would be very difficult, if you know some guys in the digital underground.

but, I admit, I just want this to be not the real deal, I was not so impressed with the stuff I listened to as I was when Lateralus came out. That blew my mind, this didn't.

Z

[ethos]

I understand that fully.

But, how difficult would it be for tool/reccompany to get a bogus set out to such a group? (not hardware, but just the digital form, ISO or high-res rip). I dont think it would be very difficult, if you know some guys.

Z

Just stop. That's not likely at all.

[Masses]

lol

[zet]

Just stop. That's not likely at all.

ok. I'll stop (but remain hopefull ;-)

Z

[Cemetery Shindig]

maybe. i thought maynard said that this album took 9-12 months to make?

You just disagreed with yourself more than I even was...

[Masses]

i was originally focusing on the time since lateralus. but as you wanted to be technical...

[daveelton]

You just disagreed with yourself more than I even was...

I noticed that too :) Do we have any proof that the "scene" rip is different from the one we have already heard yet? I will consider higher quality or something along these lines to be proof of a new rip.

[Masses]

higher..quality..is..the..proof

[trisw]

cleaned up audio is no proof. post the nfo. if its a reliable group, it will be in the nfo. all i am finding is a uglydisease release, and they surely arent a spectacular group to say the least. they stole releases before.

[daveelton]

higher..quality..is..the..proof

Which is why I'm asking if it is higher quality... heh.

[Masses]

well if you read the thread then maybe you'd read the description of it.

[daveelton]

well if you read the thread then maybe you'd read the description of it.

I made this thread son :)

[Locarius]

It is real. It has an nfo. It sounds much better. It is not transcode.

[daveelton]

It is real. It has an nfo. It sounds much better. It is not transcode.

Thank you, useful info.

[trisw]

what group is claiming it is all i am really looking for.

[zet]

cleaned up audio is no proof. post the nfo. if its a reliable group, it will be in the nfo. all i am finding is a uglydisease release, and they surely arent a spectacular group to say the least. they stole releases before.

I'm not familiar with these kinds of groups and intergroup "ethics"; as I understand it, it is highly signifacant that this group claims this rip as its own.

Does that automatically mean that one member of the group actually got his hands on the hardware (ie, fysical pressed disc), or is it also possible that you get your material from a digital master, say from your buddy who works in the pressing plant in China and has a beef with his manager and decides to upload some files to a ftp server somewhere?

Again, I'm not at all familiar with this stuff, just wanting to know the dynamics.

Thanks,
z

[Masses]

I made this thread son :)

well then read post 14.

[Locarius]

RNS claims it.

[daveelton]

well then read post 14.

Thank you. See, that wasn't too hard, was it?

[Masses]

like i said, read the thread. even if you did birth it. bertha.

[daveelton]

like i said, read the thread. even if you did birth it. bertha.

Like I said, thank you. My apologies if I should be expected to remember all details of 50+ posts.

[Masses]

apology accepted.

[trisw]

I found out the info i was looking for and believe the release is legit. the group that released this new one is spot on in their work. quality stuff from these guys.

as for the original release, has that ever been figured out?

[ZeroGlass]

The quality of this release makes the album sound SOOO much more fuller! Theres little bits that werent heard before.

[zet]

The quality of this release makes the album sound SOOO much more fuller! Theres little bits that werent heard before.

I am only finding a RNS release with the same size as the original leak.
109MB.

Are we talking about the same thing here?

Z

[ZeroGlass]

Yes. MB means nothing in terms of quality.

[zet]

Yes. MB means nothing in terms of quality.

ok. just checking. will go listen to it right now.
interesting times

[Masses]

lol

[zet]

lol
this one is a lot better, but i'm still disapointed. still not blown away like i was when lateralus was released.

[goa head]

i wonder how many poeple will come out and say things along the lines of "yeah it sucked before but now the quality is better and it rocks!!".....hell i wonder what the reactions will be when the release date hits.....
As for the source of the “initial” [m4a] leak I can only hypothesize, it was done by someone who obviously had limited time access to the CD and did not know much about encoding, a record company executives son/daughter, that just wanted to show off the new tool album on his/hers ipod perhaps? =]

[zet]

i wonder how many poeple will come out and say things along the lines of "yeah it sucked before but now the quality is better and it rocks!!".....hell i wonder what the reactions will be when the release date hits.....
As for the source of the “initial” [m4a] leak I can only hypothesize, it was done by someone who obviously had limited time access to the CD and did not know much about encoding, a record company executives son/daughter, that just wanted to show off the new tool album on his/hers ipod perhaps? =]

well, I still will remain disapointed. Im actually listening to Lost Keys right now, those voice over in a hospital... sorry, just cant stand it. I like the heavy pounding bass + NIN-style voice that follows a lot though...

There is a truly big difference between the leaks. Wont say it sucks. I'm just not blown away yet.

[xineax]

The only one who could post the leak, the One who is closest to the band members himself is....


JESUS!!! Yes that's right. That's where all that symbolism is going, Viginti Tres==23...that's 10 years before JESUS died and 10 is the number on the Grudge of the last emanation of God!!! OMG!

It's probably just as good a premise as anyone else's. ;)

[knot0fvipers]

if no one was given physical cds, the songs arent mastered less vicarious, hence the band leaked it.

[Supergroup]

Has anyone compared the radio version of Vicarious, mix wise, to the leaked version? Discrepancies besides the usual radio vs. cd quality?
I just obtained a radio package from my freind at the college radio station here. Vicariuos is a whole new beast in the flesh than it is on the leak. You will see, soooo many layers and sounds that you can't take it all in even in the first 5 or so listens.

[G-Dub4lyfe]

i wonder how many poeple will come out and say things along the lines of "yeah it sucked before but now the quality is better and it rocks!!".....hell i wonder what the reactions will be when the release date hits.....
As for the source of the “initial” [m4a] leak I can only hypothesize, it was done by someone who obviously had limited time access to the CD and did not know much about encoding, a record company executives son/daughter, that just wanted to show off the new tool album on his/hers ipod perhaps? =]

The better audio quality doesn't fix bad song arrangements.

[researchtriangle]

The better audio quality doesn't fix bad song arrangements.

lol . . . cheers...

[fault]

The better audio quality doesn't fix bad song arrangements.

hey! that was my joke! but it's a good one eh :)

[ethos]

Yah, the new rip sounds better, but the album is still blah blah.

[aurora_waters]

my friend downlaoded 13th step and gave me a copy about 3 weeks prior to the release date of that cd and it was the real deal etc so i dont see why this isnt the real deal too

[trisw]

no one is saying that anymore, what we want to know is who the original leak is. where did the first .m4a files come from? the most plausible reason i have heard was some kiddie from a record exec from Sony or whatever got that downloaded to his ipod via daddy and then proceeded to upload to the internet.

[kether4602]

would a record exec or his kid have any access to this album? i mean, if the members of Tool are so dead set on no one having the cd, then it would have to be on a computer (im assuming a computer that some record exec or his kid would have access to). The only thing that makes sense to me is the album being leaked from the private FTP server that the band had set up for the release of vicarious to the radio stations.....i dont know

[LordRedSnake]

I just wonder why the cd is selling for so cheap.

[theprosperone]

m4a format = itunes

Or someone ripped it through itunes....heh.