vicarious and schism

[joeyt17]

who knows what is going on with this whole 10,000 days....

but has anyone else noticed that vicarious and schism have the exact same beat. i know tool had leftover tracks and material from lateralus, but to use such a distinctive beat again on their next album for both songs that are the first singles?

just something odd going on here

[right_in_three]

Vicarious seems like a completely recycled song. That doesn't make it any less awesome though. In my opinion, it is the only song on the new album that sounds like it could be completely at home on Lateralus. There is so much going on in this song, it's amazing.

[tomhet]

Ha ha, even if you know that it's like a recycled song you still like it? Vicarious sucks, how can you cope with that? It's boring. Nothing new there.

[zonacruz6]

Ha ha, even if you know that it's like a recycled song you still like it? Vicarious sucks, how can you cope with that? It's boring. Nothing new there.

Wow. I wouldn't go that far. It's not a recycled song, in my opinion. It may have been formed off of previous ideas, but all bands use similar sounds for new albums. (If you want a really good example of it, listen to Disturbed. It's annoying how much their songs sound exactly the same.) This song has new lyrics and a new meaning. How could that be boring or recycled?

[Schishole]

I don't think there is that much in common between the two songs. Schism and Vicarious sound different to me. I have never heard Maynard sing parts of a song one syllable at a time with the beat before.

I really like Vicarious and the lyrics.

[holotrope]

who knows what is going on with this whole 10,000 days....

but has anyone else noticed that vicarious and schism have the exact same beat. i know tool had leftover tracks and material from lateralus, but to use such a distinctive beat again on their next album for both songs that are the first singles?

just something odd going on here

Schism's main beat is in a compound time of 12/8 split into 5/8 and 7/8 while Vicarious' main beat is in 5/4 (or 10/4, depending on who's part you're counting)

totally different time sig, but the same beat, eh? Something REALLY wierd must be going on, lol!

[CaseLogic]

Yeah I don't know where you're getting the idea that they have the same beat..

[usa4jer]

They do have similar sounds though, in parts. I think when the intro returns in the middle of Vicarious it's a bit like the bridge section in Schism, and the endings are definitely similar. And when you play it on guitar there's definitely a lot of the 0-h3-h5 (or 0-h15-h17, whatever) triplets going on that you find in Schism.

But what the hell do you expect? They're both songs by the same band. They're going to have similarities. I think calling Vicarious a recycled song is a bit harsh.

[spiiiral]

i thought schism when i heard vicarious for the first time too

maybe it's because songs need to fit some sort of mold to be played on the radio, as pathetic as that is

they're both great songs in my opinion..better than everything else that's out there on the radio..but definitely on the lower end for 'tool songs'

so i agree w. your comparison

[decoydroid]

At parts I notice the same riff as Schism, but by and far the song is different from Schism. What I guess I'm trying to say is that the song itself feels new even if I notice things here and there.

[WitlessLiar]

Ha ha, even if you know that it's like a recycled song you still like it? Vicarious sucks, how can you cope with that? It's boring. Nothing new there.
Yeah you've got a point. I mean who cares how good something sounds if they know that the material might have been able to make it on another album?

-_- First of all, prove to me it's leftovers from Lateralus. Second of all, who cares? If it was put on Lateralus you wouldn't have cared at all, and just because the album info that will show up when you play it on iTunes or whatever won't be the same doesn't mean that it doesn't come from the same band, and (more importantly) that it's still a great song?

Maybe I just "can't cope" with people that are choking themselves with their own semantics, but I think that if it sounds good listen to it. Now, if you're saying the only reason that you don't like it is because you just don't like it then okay, I respect that. But if you're saying that you don't like it because it might have belonged to Lateralus (or even Schism), I believe that that's bullshit.

[comfortably_numb]

as someone has already pointed it out
listen to
pushit from 8:34- 8:37 and
schism from 5:21 - 5:24

"oh my god schism is just pushit recycled"

a similar riff in a different context means someting else, why is this so difficult to understand?

"the grudge is totally a rip-off of opiate, that scream that maynard does at the end of the song, its just like the one he did in opiate.. damn.. the grudge is just recycled material leftover from opiate, seriously lateralus was just an opiate b-side"

[visionary]

as someone has already pointed it out
listen to
pushit from 8:34- 8:37 and
schism from 5:21 - 5:24

"oh my god schism is just pushit recycled"

a similar riff in a different context means someting else, why is this so difficult to understand?

"the grudge is totally a rip-off of opiate, that scream that maynard does at the end of the song, its just like the one he did in opiate.. damn.. the grudge is just recycled material leftover from opiate, seriously lateralus was just an opiate b-side"

Well put. I think that, yes, Schism and Vicarious may, at times, sound similar, but they are definitely variations of the same song. Recycled, I think not. Something to consider, on both Lateralus and 10,000 Days, the songs released were quite possibly the simplest songs on the album. Tool, themselves, even stated in an interview that they wanted to get a song out there that would be catchy. They know that old tool fans would keep coming back (DUH), but in order to attract the simple minded...well, i think Vicarious speaks volumes. hahaha.

[Lipan Conjuring]

While listening to Vicarious, I am not in any way wasting mental energy trying to spot similarities between 10,000 days and Lateralus. First 100 listens or so, I'm only trying to absorb the music's emotion and energy.. digest it, understand it, appreciate its musical subtleties, and if I like what I'm hearing that's all there is to it, and let me say I fucking love vicarious . Each band member is quality and Maynard's vocals (NOT necessarily his lyrics, but the sound of his voice) are incredibly powerful and angry and scary.. vintage maynard.

Would u people who are saying it's 'recycled' material really have preferred not to have these tool songs in your library? would you really prefer that they never released it? Or do you love these songs as well? Because if you don't love these songs I can't really see how you would have the right taste to appreicate the other tool albums..? Danny's drumming alone makes the entire album glorious to listen to.

[the usual]

I don't think there is that much in common between the two songs. Schism and Vicarious sound different to me. I have never heard Maynard sing parts of a song one syllable at a time with the beat before.

I really like Vicarious and the lyrics.

I agree 100%

[smisli]

well Vicarious does remind me of Schism, maybe because of the beginning and the bridge
in the middle (or however u call it). however they can't really be compared;
Schism is a masterpiece, an amazing, uniq, overwhelming experience, while Vicarious is just a good song...

[smeefsmeef]

Vicarious live will blow me away, especially the ending vocals. I saw Schism live and I think Vicarious would be better live.

[Triangular_Vision]

Ha ha, even if you know that it's like a recycled song you still like it? Vicarious sucks, how can you cope with that? It's boring. Nothing new there.

its been my experience that tool progresses and blends from one track to another to ease the transition... why not blend one album to the next? I noticed the similarities myself the first time i listened... but it grew on me and as the cd progresses into the other songs, it becomes a journey. Sit back and relax... you wouldn't want a hot tub to get real cold all the sudden would you?

[Triangular_Vision]

While listening to Vicarious, I am not in any way wasting mental energy trying to spot similarities between 10,000 days and Lateralus. First 100 listens or so, I'm only trying to absorb the music's emotion and energy.. digest it, understand it, appreciate its musical subtleties, and if I like what I'm hearing that's all there is to it, and let me say I fucking love vicarious . Each band member is quality and Maynard's vocals (NOT necessarily his lyrics, but the sound of his voice) are incredibly powerful and angry and scary.. vintage maynard.

Would u people who are saying it's 'recycled' material really have preferred not to have these tool songs in your library? would you really prefer that they never released it? Or do you love these songs as well? Because if you don't love these songs I can't really see how you would have the right taste to appreicate the other tool albums..? Danny's drumming alone makes the entire album glorious to listen to.


beautiful

[Crazy]

Viacrious is in 10/8 (or so i have been told) and Schism is in 5/4 so they sorta have the same beat.
To me Vicarious sounds like a combination of The Grudge and Schism

[wearethestories]

Tiring to hear so much ranting about "Vicarious" being a 'recycled' song. Does that sound ridiculous to everyone else as well? It is almost completely unfathomable that those who love Tool (or who love the progression of Tool, because, honestly, that IS who Tool is... progression from one stage of life to another shown through incredibly technical/mathematical music) would call ANYTHING by this band 'recycled'. Are our experiences recycled? Do we not come to a particular part of life and notice that it is similar to a previous time?

And, more importantly: Is Tool making music for US???










... the answer is "no - they are making music for them, and we are blessed enough to experience and share with their understanding of life at the moments they are able to express it"

[Drawn Under]

I remember seeing a post somewhere about how most people expected 10,000 days to be a Lateralus 2 of sorts. So maybe tool released this song as the single to sort of trick everyone. Because based on Vicarious one would assume it is a Lateralus 2 sort of song. Vicarious no doubt would fit into the Lateralus family so maybe tool sorta led us on to believe it would be a Lateralus 2 only to have a great surprise waiting for us when we listened to Jambi and the rest of the album.

[wearethestories]

Vicarious no doubt would fit into the Lateralus family ...

I don't think I agree.
If I were to play this back to back with anything from Lateralus, I think I'd be shocked at how different it actually is from the entire concept of Lateralus --- there is little about moving beyond and encouraging people to dig deeper at their own consciousness/psyches in 10,000 Days. As Adam has "joked", this is their blues album --- the lyrics show of Vicarious set the stage for the whole album as being a sort of love song to a dying world; 1Vicarious is concerned with death and dying, life through death, ironic resignation and a myriad of other more "complex" theories of being* than Lateralus touched upon.

That to say... I am going to go try that Vicarious/Lateralus combo and see what the result is.





*That's not METAPHYSICAL theories of being (Lateralus was chock full of those), but more human, realistic, and ultimately contradictory theories of what some might call SIMPLY being.

[jovem]

if vicarious resembles any other tool song, i would say stinkfist, at least thematically. it's really only the intro riff that kindasorta resembles schism. but if you listen to schism and then vicarious back to back, esp. the parts that resemble each other, you'll see that though the notes are somewhat similar, the production is totally different. Schism notes sound like they are not doubled, with minimal effects (maybe a chorus). Vicarious sounds like several guitars were layered, each using different effects and played through different amps.

[Terry21]

The truth is, Tool don't care if what they already written something similar. I couldn't do that. I would write it different then. Same with "influence". But if it's their style, then ok. I heard a lot of similarities to Lateralus on this album. And from Lateralus in Aenima.

[swampyfool]

I do see some similarites in the music, but I think that also kinda corresponds to some similar thematics. In Schism, they decry the inadequacy and/or lack of modern communication; in Vicarious, they decry one of the chief impedements to comunication- TV obsession. So, if the two themes are expounding upon one antother, then maybe it's kinda fitting that they share musical connotation.

[swampyfool]

Also, does anybody hear a similarity between the beginning of Schism and the beginning of Intension (post-glass sweeping- about 0:34)?

Plus, I had just set up a playlist of Schism and Vicaarious so that I could listen for the similarities. However, when Schism ended, both my girlfriend and I started humming the riff from Rosetta Stoned (at about 10:29)- it fits perfectly. You know, how when one song ends, sometimes your mind races to the next song on the album before it even starts in anticipation. It was kinda like that, only RS doesn't come after Schism (different albums, even), and the riff that our minds jumped into was from the middle of the song. But I swear, listen to the end of Schism with that riff in mind, and you will hear what I'm talking about. I'm not positive that the riff is necessarily in the same key- one might have to slide the riff a little up or down the neck of the guitar in order to sync it up.

[placidium]

melodically, the songs are very similar, but rhythmically, not really at all.

[savelints8]

Plus, I had just set up a playlist of Schism and Vicaarious so that I could listen for the similarities. However, when Schism ended, both my girlfriend and I started humming the riff from Rosetta Stoned (at about 10:29)- it fits perfectly.
You're right. The pieces fit! :)

[Vitae]

You're right. The pieces fit! :)

Hahahaha