Interpretation

[Exoskeletal]

Maybe this has already been pointed, but I'm trying to collect every thought about this interpretation in this thread.
After analyzing the lyrics I realized that this song is not about his son or whatever... but about Marie.

"Here from the kings mountain view, here from the wild dream come true
Feast like a sultan I do, on treasures and flesh never few"
Maynard is pointing to all the richness he achieved with his music.

"But I, I would wish it all away
If I thought I'd lose you just one day"
But he would trade it all if he knew he would lose his mother.

"Prayed like a martyr dusk to dawn
Begged like a hooker all night long
Tempted the devil with my song
And got what I wanted all along"
With his music he was literally praying like a martyr and sold himself to get what he wanted.

"The devil and his had me downs, in love with the dark side I've found
Dabbling all the way down, up to my neck soon to drown
But you changed all that for me, lifted me up turned me round"
His mother helped him to go trough it and showed him a "light".

"You're my piece of mind, my all
I said I'm just trying to hold on one more day"
She was a part of him and hes trying to hold on his suffering everyday.

"Shine until the two become one
Shine on forever, Shine on benevolent sun
Shine on upon the severed
Shine until the two become one
Divided I'm withering away"
Away from his mother he feels weaker, and will be one with her when he dies.

Look at it from this point of view and connect it with Wings for Marie/10,000 Days. It makes a lot of sense.

[Untamed]

Maybe this has already been pointed, but I'm trying to collect every thought about this interpretation in this thread.
After analyzing the lyrics I realized that this song is not about his son or whatever... but about Marie.

"Here from the kings mountain view, here from the wild dream come true
Feast like a sultan I do, on treasures and flesh never few"
Maynard is pointing to all the richness he achieved with his music.

"But I, I would wish it all away
If I thought I'd lose you just one day"
But he would trade it all if he knew he would lose his mother.

"Prayed like a martyr dusk to dawn
Begged like a hooker all night long
Tempted the devil with my song
And got what I wanted all along"
With his music he was literally praying like a martyr and sold himself to get what he wanted.

"The devil and his had me downs, in love with the dark side I've found
Dabbling all the way down, up to my neck soon to drown
But you changed all that for me, lifted me up turned me round"
His mother helped him to go trough it and showed him a "light".

"You're my piece of mind, my all
I said I'm just trying to hold on one more day"
She was a part of him and hes trying to hold on his suffering everyday.

"Shine until the two become one
Shine on forever, Shine on benevolent sun
Shine on upon the severed
Shine until the two become one
Divided I'm withering away"
Away from his mother he feels weaker, and will be one with her when he dies.

Look at it from this point of view and connect it with Wings for Marie/10,000 Days. It makes a lot of sense.

I'm with you man, didnt see it this way but you have pointed me in that direction. I think Maynard is going through so much, he always held to "healing", I think this album is him coming to terms. Absolutely love this album.

[frosty nugs]

I wonder about the leech, "spare your poison, get out of my way" could this be the embodiment of the things he felt in the past? The negativity he surrounded himself with, and/or his negative feelings toward his mother's faith? He speaks of trading it all in for the chance to be with her one more day. All of his past views his fame and fourtune, his bitterness, his infatuation with the dark side. All in all an excellent song.

[Untamed]

I wonder about the leech, "spare your poison, get out of my way" could this be the embodiment of the things he felt in the past? The negativity he surrounded himself with, and/or his negative feelings toward his mother's faith? He speaks of trading it all in for the chance to be with her one more day. All of his past views his fame and fourtune, his bitterness, his infatuation with the dark side. All in all an excellent song.

Personally I think he is singing "Legion" a name given to a possesing demon in the Bible, "Our name is Legion and we are many" Yet they embodied one person, refer to "The devil and his had me down".

All in all I think he is more or less saying, "Yea, devil, bring it on, I will repel you"

[Biscuit Oil]

But how does this interpretation fit with the parts:

No prize you could hold [could hold] sway
Or justify my kneeling away, my sentence…

and

Dim my eyes!
Dim my eyes!
Dim my eyes if they should compromise a hope of wanting the divine need
Then I might as well be gone.

?

And more importantly how does the title of the song have anything to do with this interpretation?

[Cruzer]

I think this song is the Anti-Aenima/Flood song, filled with regret toward the Tsunami.

[Rotating_Energy_Field]

Pretty cool interpretation

[vicariouslyeye]

nice interpretation, but i personally think its about his wife:
untill two become one...
Divided I'm withering away...
aso
and if you connect it with the thoughts of alex grey ( who maynard is a great fan of) it make alot of sense

[burning bridges]

I thought it was his mother too at first, but I sort of digressed from that theory because he already was singing about her in two other songs.

[NoVestal]

But it isn't about his mom. It's about his "benevolent son." His boy.

"I would wish it all away if I thought I might lose you just one day."

No one is dumb enough to think their parents will outlive them but everyone wishes to be outlived by their children.

He's saying he would give up everything he has to protect his son from going off to fight some stupid war.

Am I the only one with this interp?

[Exoskeletal]

That's a possible interpretation too. If we had sure that he says "benevolent son" instead of sun, then there would be no doubt.
But there are some lines that make me wonder, like:
"Divided I'm withering away" Could he be separated from his son?
"Breathe in union, so as one survive" This may also meen two things, if he is talking about his mother, then he is the one who survives feeling in union with her spirit. If he is talking about his son, then they survive as one.
Because of those lines I thought that it was more logical if he were talkin about his mother. This only depends on how you look at it.
After thinking about it again, the feeling we get in this song is somekind positive, as the one he is refering to is still alive, and right after it we have Wings/10,000 Days which is sad, intensive and very deep. It is possible that there could be a connection, son and mother here. I don't discard other interpretations, they are as valid as mine.

[comeon]

a brief history on Jambi:
Before what is now Indonesia was colonized by the Dutch East India Company Jambi was the site of a well-established, powerful Srivijayan kingdom that engaged in trade throughout the Strait of Malacca and beyond. It succeeded Palembang to the south, which was a frequent military and economic rival, as the later capital of the ancient kingdom. The move to Jambi was partly induced by the historic 1025 raid by pirates from the Chola region of southern India that destroyed much of Palembang.

In the early decades of the Dutch presence in the region, when the future colonizers were just one of several groups of traders competing with Brits, Chinese, Arabs, and Malays, the Jambi sultanate profitably traded pepper with the Dutch. This relationship declined by about 1770, and the sultanate had little contact with the Dutch for about sixty years.

In 1833, minor conflicts with the Dutch, who were well established in Palembang, meant the Dutch increasingly felt the need to control the actions of Jambi. They coerced Sultan Facharudin to agree to greater Dutch presence in the region and control over trade, although the sultanate remained nominally independent. In 1858 the Dutch, apparently concerned over the risk of competition for control from other foreign powers, invaded Jambi with a force from Batavia. They met little resistance, and Sultan Taha fled to the upriver, inland regions of Jambi. The Dutch installed a puppet ruler, Nazarudin, in the lower region, which included the capital city. For the next forty years Taha maintained the upriver kingdom, and slowly reextended his influence over the lower regions through political agreements and marriage connections. In 1904, however, the Dutch were stronger and, as a part of a larger campaign to consolidate control over the entire archipelago, soldiers finally managed to capture and kill Taha, and in 1906, the entire area was brought under direct colonial management.

I don't know if this will help or just further complicate the song.
Many connections with the river and the two countries becoming one.

[Exoskeletal]

And more importantly how does the title of the song have anything to do with this interpretation?
Well I think he is refering to Jambi the genie in Pee Wee's Playhouse, because of the "wish it all away" lines.
http://www.tvacres.com/enchanted_genies_jambie.htm

As for the history of Jambi, there seem to be some connections there, it could also be a metaphor for the title. But I don't think he is talking about that province, makes no sense to me...

[Biscuit Oil]

a brief history on Jambi:

In 1833, minor conflicts with the Dutch, who were well established in Palembang, meant the Dutch increasingly felt the need to control the actions of Jambi. They coerced Sultan Facharudin to agree to greater Dutch presence in the region and control over trade, although the sultanate remained nominally independent.

I don't know if this will help or just further complicate the song.
Many connections with the river and the two countries becoming one.


Yeah... I think the song is neither about his mother nor his son. The song is about this kind of coersion, specifically religious coersion or missionaries. I'll try a lyrical run-down:

"Hid from the King's mountain view
Hid from the wild dream come true
feast like a sultan I do
on treasures and flesh never few"

Before the arrival of the conquerers Jambi was in a relatively happy state. The "I" is a native of Jambi or someone who lives there.

"But I, I would wish it all away
If I thought I'd lose you just one day"

This will be seen later as sarcasm... the "you" refers to the new settlers and
missionaries.

"The Devil and his had me down
In love with the dark side I’d found
Dabbling all the way down
Up to my neck soon to drown"

Maynard obviously doesn't actually believe in the devil, so this is sarcasm on his part, though on the part of the native may be genuine. He may actually be convinced by the missionaries that he is a sinner and needs to repent, accept Christ, or whatever...

"But you changed that all for me
Lifted me up, turned me ‘round"

More sarcasm from Maynard.

"Prayed like a martyr dusk to dawn
Begged like a hooker all night long
Tempted the Devil with my song
And got what I wanted all along."

Describing his new lifestyle.

"But I…
I would if I could
I would wish it away
Wish it away
Wish it all away
I’d wish it all away"

Now the "it" is beginning to transform in the mind of the native from wishing away his previous lifestyle in favor of Christianity, to wishing away the missionaries. This is stressed in the next verse...

"No prize you could hold [could hold] sway
Or justify my kneeling away: my sentence…"

He realizes it's all bullshit... and he wants to get out fast.

"So if I could I’d wish it all away
If I thought tomorrow would take you away
You’re my peace of mind, my all,
I said I’m just trying to hold on one more day."

Now the "it" is clearly the missionaries. Now he's focusing on simply surrviving. The settlers have brought war, and likely disease.

"Dim my eyes!
Dim my eyes!
Dim my eyes if they should compromise a hope of wanting the divine need
Then I might as well be gone."

This is the clearest statement in favor of this interpretation. He realizes the missionaries are just dimming his eyes so that he'll have a need for their "divine" message. If his reason compromises their mission they'll do what they can to dim it. He'd rather be dead.

"Shine on forever
Shine on benevolent sun
Shine on upon the broken
Shine until the two become one

Shine on forever
Shine on benevolent sun
Shine on upon the sinners
Shine until the two become one

Divide and wither it away
Divide and wither it away
Shine on upon the many,
Light our way benevolent sun."

He hopes for the sun to shine down, notably not dimming his eyes.
He appeals to something secular. This is a revisitation of one of the over-arching themes Tool have: unity, peace. Shine down upon even the "sinners", shine upon the many. Just surrvive.

"Breathe in union
Breathe in union
Breathe in union
Breathe in union
Breathe in union

So, as one, survive another day in season
Silently just save your poison.
Silently just stay out of my way."

Unity again... he's now just working on living... he rejects their poison and asks them to kindly get the fuck off his island.

Now the NEXT song... that's one's got something to do with Maynard's mom.

[Biscuit Oil]

I forgot to mention the gong on the last "Breathe in union".
This can be easily interpreted as Tool being sweet ass.

[NoVestal]

I think it's his son for a web of reasons. You cannot wish to hold on to the dying but you can the young.

His son was born between undertow and aenima. On undertow/swamp song he warns someone they are in a bog and to leave before it sucks them down ("up to my neck and soon to drown").

On Aenima he finds he's changing - see 46&2 for the most direct reference to personal growth - ("but you changed that all for me"). Even in concert during that time he would comment that having a kid really changes things (before the song H I believe).

In no interview did I see him mention his mother until after APC came out with Judith.

In jimmy he refers to a child holding his light ("11 is and will be waiting holding his light and wondering" - "glow child glow").

In Right in Two he refers to mankind splitting itself with war and violence in two (losing it's original wholeness). In jambi he is asking his son to take the power and talent he has (his light) and to shine it forever into the world he will soon join as a man. To shine until the two become one again.

Now this interp has holes but it makes more sense than his mother to me. It sounds like a father talking to a son. Explaining the mistakes he's made and the dreams he had and that should anything threaten his family and son he would take all he's gained through his struggles and throw it away to protect that which he holds to be truly dear, his loved ones.

But for it to be solely about his mother is just silly or juvenile. The older you get the more you prepare for your parents eventual and inevitable passing. You don't beg or demand for them not to die.

Anyway the very next song is him letting her go and Maynard is a tenacious bastard. I doubt he would have a song about one thing then immediately have a song about it's exact opposite. He doesn't give up like that. No, he's holding onto something he feels he has a right to hold on to, his young son.

The interp fits the political atmosphere of the album and times. The question is always raised to the rich and successful, "Would you send your son to fight these wars?" and he's saying "Hell no and you can take my stuff and I'll still say hell no."

I would imagine deeper delving than wikipedia will be necessary to understand the Jambi reference. It's like maynard to put in some mythology that is not necessary to understand the gist of the song.

Edit - The guy above adds some fuel to my fire. If Jambi refers to a war torn country, it would make a little sense. Don't take my peaceful innocent son and destroy him with war. His interp is pretty fucking out there for my tastes (like when people tell me Jimmy is about Judas and Jesus - you've gone too far in the wrong direction looking for something that just ain't there.)

[optimistic-pessimist]

I'm pretty sure the lines are...

"Shine down upon the broken..."

"Shine down upon the severed..."

and

"Shine down upon the many, light our way..."

... in which case "benevolent sun would make more sense. I do like the interpretation that this is about his son, though.

[Alcawhorlick]

news flash:
Maynard has always been pretty aware that he could lose his mother I'm sure.

[optimistic-pessimist]

news flash:
Maynard has always been pretty aware that he could lose his mother I'm sure.

Did anyone say otherwise? If so I missed it....

[NoVestal]

news flash:
Maynard has always been pretty aware that he could lose his mother I'm sure.

Der.

Anyway, I've almost decided the Jambi reference is to the Genie. "Wish it all away."

Nothing in this song makes me think it's about a specific country.

As far as it being the sun he's talking about. I really don't know. Metaphors can go either way. I don't particularly like the idea of him speaking to a phenomena of deep space as though it were a God or Savior. It sounds so new age I feel ill but then they do looove alex grey and his shit can get pretty "huh, that's neat, wtf."

[Athanatizein]

Nothing in this song makes me think it's about a specific country.

Sultans?

They're not all that common, after all, and Jambi was a sultanate. Of course, I'm not familiar with the Genie, so I can't really understand the ramifications of that little tidbit.

Ah... the ambiguity.

[toocooltool]

Interesting theory.

[NoVestal]

Sultans?

They're not all that common, after all, and Jambi was a sultanate. Of course, I'm not familiar with the Genie, so I can't really understand the ramifications of that little tidbit.

Ah... the ambiguity.

Okay, here is my uber interp.

I think it's about his son and the title is a reference to the Genie and the Country. The Genie because the song's chorus is about wishing. The country because Maynard thought he could reference two things, one of which is an injustice of imperialism, the other a kooky tidbit, and at the same time write a song that jives with both without being directly about either. That sounds like his style. It's pretty much what I've decided he did on several mer de noms tracks.

[Athanatizein]

Okay, here is my uber interp.

I think it's about his son and the title is a reference to the Genie and the Country. The Genie because the song's chorus is about wishing. The country because Maynard thought he could reference two things, one of which is an injustice of imperialism, the other a kooky tidbit, and at the same time write a song that jives with both without being directly about either. That sounds like his style. It's pretty much what I've decided he did on several mer de noms tracks.

Seeing as how almost everything in this album, intuitively, lends itself to multiple coherent interpretations, I'd have to agree that this is a distinct possibility.

Might just be pattern paranoia, though. :)

[optimistic-pessimist]

Der.
As far as it being the sun he's talking about. I really don't know. Metaphors can go either way. I don't particularly like the idea of him speaking to a phenomena of deep space as though it were a God or Savior. It sounds so new age I feel ill but then they do looove alex grey and his shit can get pretty "huh, that's neat, wtf."


Well one of the interpretations/meanings/allusions of the song Reflection is about the light of the sun that is reflecting off of the moon.

"The moon tells me a secret - my confidant
As full and bright as I am
This light is not my own and
A million light reflections pass over me

Its source is bright and endless
She resuscitates the hopeless
Without her, we are lifeless satellites drifting "

So it's been done before....

[magnolia]

Maybe this has already been pointed, but I'm trying to collect every thought about this interpretation in this thread.
After analyzing the lyrics I realized that this song is not about his son or whatever... but about Marie.

"Here from the kings mountain view, here from the wild dream come true
Feast like a sultan I do, on treasures and flesh never few"
Maynard is pointing to all the richness he achieved with his music.

"But I, I would wish it all away
If I thought I'd lose you just one day"
But he would trade it all if he knew he would lose his mother.

"Prayed like a martyr dusk to dawn
Begged like a hooker all night long
Tempted the devil with my song
And got what I wanted all along"
With his music he was literally praying like a martyr and sold himself to get what he wanted.

"The devil and his had me downs, in love with the dark side I've found
Dabbling all the way down, up to my neck soon to drown
But you changed all that for me, lifted me up turned me round"
His mother helped him to go trough it and showed him a "light".

"You're my piece of mind, my all
I said I'm just trying to hold on one more day"
She was a part of him and hes trying to hold on his suffering everyday.

"Shine until the two become one
Shine on forever, Shine on benevolent sun
Shine on upon the severed
Shine until the two become one
Divided I'm withering away"
Away from his mother he feels weaker, and will be one with her when he dies.

Look at it from this point of view and connect it with Wings for Marie/10,000 Days. It makes a lot of sense.
Good interpretation. I think I agree.

[NoVestal]

Well one of the interpretations/meanings/allusions of the song Reflection is about the light of the sun that is reflecting off of the moon.

So it's been done before....

Doesn't make me like the idea any better. Worshipping and/or anthropomorphizing space rocks and nuclear furnaces is stupid. And I have a hard time believing reflection is solely about the sun and moon.

Man I feel really down, oh wait the sun bounces off the moon, gosh I feel better.

[Exoskeletal]

Doesn't make me like the idea any better. Worshipping and/or anthropomorphizing space rocks and nuclear furnaces is stupid. And I have a hard time believing reflection is solely about the sun and moon.

Man I feel really down, oh wait the sun bounces off the moon, gosh I feel better.
The sun and the moon are used only as archetypes for a state of mind.

[a reflection]

The 'sun could' well be sun or Son, frankly...
I think the reference to Reflection here seems apparent as it is hard to interpret Reflection in any other way than as the "light"' from the "sun" (Higher Power) being reflected off the "moon" (the self) -- And without it being a "lifeless satellite drifting". To me, anyway, pretty blatantly spiritual.

Funny how some want so much to believe that he is not referring to something spiritual or divine whatsoever, or is at least mocking it, while others want so much to believe he has found their God. Either way, a grasp (though understandable) for "someone who seemed to feel the same" ie. (Eulogy) Truth of the matter is, what is most important is how YOU come to interpret "sun" or "Son" or possibly "son" because it is rather telling of who and where you are. I certainly wouldn't put it past Maynard to have left this ambiguous, and dichotomous for just this reason - introspection.

[optimistic-pessimist]

Doesn't make me like the idea any better. Worshipping and/or anthropomorphizing space rocks and nuclear furnaces is stupid. And I have a hard time believing reflection is solely about the sun and moon.

Man I feel really down, oh wait the sun bounces off the moon, gosh I feel better.

That's taking things literally... which pretty much means you'll miss out on most of what Maynard is trying to get across in any of his lyrics.

The title "Reflection" actually alludes to (at least) three different things that I can see... 1) The sun's light reflecting off of the moon. 2) The Greek myth of Narcissis who pined over his own reflection 3) reflection... careful thought and consideration, in this case, directed inwards... self-reflection/ introspection. That's how I see it anyway. But I've gotten off-topic.


The 'sun could' well be sun or Son, frankly...
I think the reference to Reflection here seems apparent as it is hard to interpret Reflection in any other way than as the "light"' from the "sun" (Higher Power) being reflected off the "moon" (the self) -- And without it being a "lifeless satellite drifting". To me, anyway, pretty blatantly spiritual.

Funny how some want so much to believe that he is not referring to something spiritual or divine whatsoever, or is at least mocking it, while others want so much to believe he has found their God. Either way, a grasp (though understandable) for "someone who seemed to feel the same" ie. (Eulogy) Truth of the matter is, what is most important is how YOU come to interpret "sun" or "Son" or possibly "son" because it is rather telling of who and where you are. I certainly wouldn't put it past Maynard to have left this ambiguous, and dichotomous for just this reason - introspection.

Perfectly put. Nice post.

[NoVestal]

The sun and the moon are used only as archetypes for a state of mind.


This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

[NoVestal]

That's taking things literally... which pretty much means you'll miss out on most of what Maynard is trying to get across in any of his lyrics.

The title "Reflection" actually alludes to (at least) three different things that I can see... 1) The sun's light reflecting off of the moon. 2) The Greek myth of Narcissis who pined over his own reflection 3) reflection... careful thought and consideration, in this case, directed inwards... self-reflection/ introspection. That's how I see it anyway. But I've gotten off-topic.


The problem with it's use in Jambi is that it seems to come in late and has no solid connection to the rest of the song, either metaphorically or otherwise. If it is the "sun" then it's like he tacked it onto the end just to, fuck I don't know, kill a couple minutes.

In reflection the metaphor is consistent and builds. In Jambi, "sun" would deflect the purpose of the song in my opinion.

The general narrative of the song supports everything I see in it.

Song goes, "I'm successful, wild dream come true and all that. Women and drug dealers and everyone else offer me anything I want (a rockstar inevitability). But I'd give it up to protect you. Back before you were born I was deep in darkness. See the unrelenting darkness of both undertow and opiate (and fingernails, god what a hopeless album, see "left down up" also for talk of how in love with darkness I was). Strands of hope are completely lacking. See now, after your birth the hope that was infused into my work on Aenima and Lateralus?
(chorus)
I lied to myself, seeking false comfort in fame and success, sold my art to the snakes in the music industry thinking I was getting what I wanted..."

A lot of the personal stuff on this album seems to be Maynard coming to terms with his own mistakes in judgement. I mean, songs like Judith, Outsider, Swamp Song, all turn back on him or unravel or at least change meaning when he acknowledges the power of his mothers faith, his own greed for fame, his own dabbling in dangerous waters.

I'm sure there are mythological, religious and historical themes here but my interest is primarily the personal ones as I am a psych enthusiast, not history, religion, or mythology.

I still don't think it's about his mom and I don't think the chorus is sarcastic.