This is a B-side - let's discuss it

[tollll12]

Alright, so I posted in the rumors section that I believe this album is a bunch of b-sides. This song is a good example because it was obviously written during the recording of Lateralus.

First look at the structure. 10,000 days shares a lot in common with both the song Lateralus and Reflection: lyrics broken up by long stretches of music - the stretch starts off slow and gradually grows into something awesome.

Next just listen to the guitar solo in 10,000 days that begins at about 5:45. It fades in and out of the solos that are in Lateralus begining at about 4:15 and on Reflection at about 7:35. The 10,000 days solo is just like those with the exception that those are way better solos that this one. And think about this logically, why would Adam make the solos so similar. Tool tours for about 4 months playing in a new city practically every other day. It would get tedious playing the same songs over and over. He is going to want to play something new - he is not going to write another solo that sounds like the same thing he has been playing the last 5 years.

Alright next, look at how boring this song is. Before I started listening to Tool I thought the drums must be the most boring instrument to play because you basically play the same beat for about four minutes with only the occasional fill-in to look forward to. This is not so with Tool - with tool, the drums own. But in 10,000 days Danny is barely there for the first 5:30 of the song. And he basically is absent in Wings for Marie (other than the 10 seconds where they rock out). If they were to play this song live with it preceded by Wings for Marie, which makes sense given they are two parts, Danny would be doing practically nothing for about 11 minutes. He is the best drummer out there, why would they have him sit around occasionally chiming in on his symbols for 11 minutes - they wouldn't. This song is a b-side.

Alright finally, the lyrics in this song are weak. It's alright to be critical of Tool guys - you think Shakespeare never threw out a few pages of writing? I agree with the guy who said Maynard is hypocritical by writing a song that has so many christian references after writing songs like Opiate, Eulogy, Judith, Flood, etc. These lyrics sound like they are out of a Bob Dylan song ("some are carpenters wives") not a Tool song ("you showed us you weren't afraid to die, well so long").
I know a ton of you are going to flood the forum with "this song is about his mom dude, not christianity." Well, fair enough, I recognize that, but that doesn't account for the obvious Bob Dylanness of the song. And seriously... Bob Dylan has written enough Bob Dylan, but Tool hasn't written enough Tool.

I think Maynard recognized the lyrics were under par so he ditched them, and instead we got a song whose lyrics, when sung, form a fibonacci sequence. That's cool shit.

[right_in_three]

I wish that this would be among the many b-sides on disc one the double disc (with the second disc being the actual CD) released on May 2.

None of us have a clue.

[Alcawhorlick]

Alright, so I posted in the rumors section that I believe this album is a bunch of b-sides. This song is a good example because it was obviously written during the recording of Lateralus.

First look at the structure. 10,000 days shares a lot in common with both the song Lateralus and Reflection: lyrics broken up by long stretches of music - the stretch starts off slow and gradually grows into something awesome.

Next just listen to the guitar solo in 10,000 days that begins at about 5:45. It fades in and out of the solos that are in Lateralus begining at about 4:15 and on Reflection at about 7:35. The 10,000 days solo is just like those with the exception that those are way better solos that this one. And think about this logically, why would Adam make the solos so similar. Tool tours for about 4 months playing in a new city practically every other day. It would get tedious playing the same songs over and over. He is going to want to play something new - he is not going to write another solo that sounds like the same thing he has been playing the last 5 years.

Alright next, look at how boring this song is. Before I started listening to Tool I thought the drums must be the most boring instrument to play because you basically play the same beat for about four minutes with only the occasional fill-in to look forward to. This is not so with Tool - with tool, the drums own. But in 10,000 days Danny is barely there for the first 5:30 of the song. And he basically is absent in Wings for Marie (other than the 10 seconds where they rock out). If they were to play this song live with it preceded by Wings for Marie, which makes sense given they are two parts, Danny would be doing practically nothing for about 11 minutes. He is the best drummer out there, why would they have him sit around occasionally chiming in on his symbols for 11 minutes - they wouldn't. This song is a b-side.

Alright finally, the lyrics in this song are weak. It's alright to be critical of Tool guys - you think Shakespeare never threw out a few pages of writing? I agree with the guy who said Maynard is hypocritical by writing a song that has so many christian references after writing songs like Opiate, Eulogy, Judith, Flood, etc. These lyrics sound like they are out of a Bob Dylan song ("some are carpenters wives") not a Tool song ("you showed us you weren't afraid to die, well so long").
I know a ton of you are going to flood the forum with "this song is about his mom dude, not christianity." Well, fair enough, I recognize that, but that doesn't account for the obvious Bob Dylanness of the song. And seriously... Bob Dylan has written enough Bob Dylan, but Tool hasn't written enough Tool.

I think Maynard recognized the lyrics were under par so he ditched them, and instead we got a song whose lyrics, when sung, form a fibonacci sequence. That's cool shit.


Man, you nailed this one. This is what I've thought about this song since my 2nd time through the album. Then when people reminded me about the riff being played live, that pretty much solidified my opinion that this song is a B-side, or... something. Can't really call it a B-side since it isn't really but, its not the quality stuff normally found on Tool albums. Not that it's a horrible song.

Thats what this CD feels like though, a bunch of this type of song that would be perfect compliments to better ones on a bigger, longer CD or double CD . The only exceptions are probably Vicarious and Jambi. Even those are probably leftovers.
And then there's joke tracks/segues.
Not my idea of an excellent album.

[84 pontiac dream]

tmv played riffs/lyrics/songs for frances the mute while touring their first album...
tons of bands expirement during touring..why is it that when tool does it the finished product is considered a b-side
hell even full albums are concieved on tour....

[CaseLogic]

Alright, so I posted in the rumors section that I believe this album is a bunch of b-sides. This song is a good example because it was obviously written during the recording of Lateralus.

This is where I stopped reading. This is nothing like Lateralus.

[Alcawhorlick]

This is where I stopped reading. This is nothing like Lateralus.

You really should finish reading. He didn't say it's LIKE lateralus. He said it was WRITTEN during the recording of lateralus. Which is very plausible.
They FUCKING SAID that they had "tons" of stuff leftover after recording Lateralus.
They PLAYED the main riff as an intro during the tour a year later.
It isn't such a ridiculous assumption that the music was written during the recording of lateralus.. Jesus fuck, what is wrong with people.

I'm amazed someone hasn't said:
"BUT SHE DIDNT DIE UNTIL 2003"

The entire song could have been written during lateralus, except for the lyrics. Which is how they claimed they wrote most of Lateralus anyway, since Maynard was on the road with APC.

Hell, if I was a little more cynical than I actually am I would ASSUME that for certain that's how it happened with this song and others.That would make this album a pretty goddamn lazy effort.

[voleurz]

hahahaaha

ha.

[bwood99x]

yeah we're going to flood you with the fact that the song is about his mom...which def means he wrote the lyrics for lateralus...your logic is so fucking sound...what gave you the hint it was about his mom? the emotion, the similarities of what his mom went through, or was it when he said judith marie...who must have loved her eulogy two years early...

[hbynoe]

uh......stuff like this makes me sad....
because i highly doubt something
this intense could be a b side to any
album by any musicain on this planet

[zoomster]

AAlright finally, the lyrics in this song are weak. I agree with the guy who said Maynard is hypocritical by writing a song that has so many christian references after writing songs like Opiate, Eulogy, Judith, Flood, etc. These lyrics sound like they are out of a Bob Dylan song ("some are carpenters wives") not a Tool song ("you showed us you weren't afraid to die, well so long").
I know a ton of you are going to flood the forum with "this song is about his mom dude, not christianity." Well, fair enough, I recognize that, but that doesn't account for the obvious Bob Dylanness of the song. And seriously... Bob Dylan has written enough Bob Dylan, but Tool hasn't written enough Tool.

I think Maynard recognized the lyrics were under par so he ditched them, and instead we got a song whose lyrics, when sung, form a fibonacci sequence. That's cool shit.

good post.. up until this part.. couldn't disagree with you more on the hypocrisy\weak lyrics. If anything it was a conceptual issue (if in fact it did not make it to lateralus), rather than a poor piece of music. i think its very feasible this could be labeled as a "B Side" but it is definitely my fave tool song...

[psychodad]

I think Maynard recognized the lyrics were under par so he ditched them, and instead we got a song whose lyrics, when sung, form a fibonacci sequence. That's cool shit.

This is your main problem. You think everything they do is about the whole universe and betterment of human kind, when in fact they are just humans. Maynard, like most of us, loved his mother, and this is him pouring his soul into a song. This is the first time you really hear James Herbert Keenan singing, not Maynard. He is open, naked and decided to let the whole world know that he loved his mom and if there was one person who deserved wings, it would be her. This time he does it by saying it straight, without any chance for interpretation of the lyrics. You think he would write his most personal, most vulnerable and emotional lyrics to a damn "b-side"? A person who has always tried to keep his personal life apart from his art? There are no b-sides these days.

[delysid]

But in 10,000 days Danny is barely there for the first 5:30 of the song. And he basically is absent in Wings for Marie (other than the 10 seconds where they rock out). If they were to play this song live with it preceded by Wings for Marie, which makes sense given they are two parts, Danny would be doing practically nothing for about 11 minutes. He is the best drummer out there, why would they have him sit around occasionally chiming in on his symbols for 11 minutes - they wouldn't. This song is a b-side.


what are you talking about? Danny Carey will creating real thunder by spawning lightning bolts with his evil satanic powers...

[diogenes]

I think the biggest thing that suggests that this song isn't the quote-unquote real thing is the fact that justin plays the exact fucking same riff for the first 5 fucking minutes of the song.
Name any other tool song that comes close to being so boringly repetitive.


...I don't really believe the hoax theory, but this is pretty much the main reason why I hope it's true.

[21122012]

I think the biggest thing that suggests that this song isn't the quote-unquote real thing is the fact that justin plays the exact fucking same riff for the first 5 fucking minutes of the song.
Name any other tool song that comes close to being so boringly repetitive.

They've had different, more Doomy influences this time around (Melvins, YOB), and elongated repetition is one of the defining traits of Doom as a means of creating ambience and atmosphere.

[Bob_Marley_Wannabe]

That would make this album a pretty goddamn lazy effort.


create some thing better then. oh thats right. YOU CANT, fuckin idiot

[Code of the Streets]

This is not only NOT a b-side, it's the fucking TITLE TRACK off of their brand spanking new, long-awaited, 5 years in the making album.

And it's the most beautiful song they've ever written.

[vicariouslyeye]

I personally think it sounds more like a song from salival.
but sure as hell is a very good track

[CaseLogic]

I think the biggest thing that suggests that this song isn't the quote-unquote real thing is the fact that justin plays the exact fucking same riff for the first 5 fucking minutes of the song.
Name any other tool song that comes close to being so boringly repetitive.


...I don't really believe the hoax theory, but this is pretty much the main reason why I hope it's true.

Why can't you people just realize that this track is different from the rest of Tool's songs for OBVIOUS reasons. It's supposed to be a heavily emotional track... and you can't write one to the beat of The Grudge or something, you idiots.

[Seethus]

All I hear is:
' THIS ALBUM WASNT EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED/EXPECTED! IT MUST BE A BSIDE'
Fucking losers. You call yourself 'fans'?
Bah.

[tollll12]

what are you talking about? Danny Carey will creating real thunder by spawning lightning bolts with his evil satanic powers...

HAHAHAH alright you win! If it's not a b-side then Danny MUST .... MUST create real thunder by spawning lightning bolts! I love it :)

[psychodad]

All I hear is:
' THIS ALBUM WASNT EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED/EXPECTED! IT MUST BE A BSIDE'
Fucking losers. You call yourself 'fans'?
Bah.

Pretty much sums it up yeah. But this all happened with Lateralus too, and after a good listen, most of them will get it and get back to the flock. People are so god damn sure they know exactly what Tool is, where they are and what they will sound like, it disappoints them when it's not the exact image they expected. They should have learned by now!

"All you know about me is what I've sold ya" and "Fuck your short memory"

[ObviousParadox]

i don't know how many times I have to write this for you fucking morons. Even after undertow they played songs from aenima before it was released during the undertow tour. How fucking hard is it to grasp that? Look at any bootlegs. dumbshits.

[sknahsx90]

Danny would be doing practically nothing for about 11 minutes. He is the best drummer out there, why would they have him sit around occasionally chiming in on his symbols for 11 minutes - they wouldn't. This song is a b-side.


Even if it is a B-side (which i dont believe)...that doesent mean they wont play it live.... ever heard of System of a downs "Steal This Album"??
Official release of b-sides, they play many of them live...yea

[LaocoonRex]

This is your main problem. You think everything they do is about the whole universe and betterment of human kind, when in fact they are just humans. Maynard, like most of us, loved his mother, and this is him pouring his soul into a song. This is the first time you really hear James Herbert Keenan singing, not Maynard. He is open, naked and decided to let the whole world know that he loved his mom and if there was one person who deserved wings, it would be her. This time he does it by saying it straight, without any chance for interpretation of the lyrics. You think he would write his most personal, most vulnerable and emotional lyrics to a damn "b-side"? A person who has always tried to keep his personal life apart from his art? There are no b-sides these days.


My thoughts precisely. I think this is one of his most touching sets of lyrics he's done. His mother was obviously a devout Christian, something he obviously and vocally disagrees with but in this song he pays her long-held beliefs some respect because she respected them and he loved her. And sometimes that's all a son needs.

[Orph8998]

i think the majority of these songs are pretty weak...so i would agree...even parts of this song are weak(the solo) so i would like to think it was all b-sides...and even tempted to think so...but dont bash the lyrics...i think that if this cd/song has anything..its lyrics and singing

[Orph8998]

also, i believe his mom died in 2003...lataralus was 2001....
thus i think your post is very wrong
loser!

[QuantumMind]

also, i believe his mom died in 2003...lataralus was 2001....
thus i think your post is very wrong
loser!
I agree

[hbynoe]

you people make me think that i dont listen to music well enough...when in fact
i know i listen to it how i should
i think the album is brilliant...and this song will go down as
perfect emotional escape eventually for all of us

[Ancalagon]

Dude, the place where I really stopped listening to you is where you compared the lyrics to Bob Dylan in a negative light. You realize Dylan is considered one of the, if not the greatest lyricists of all time? How fucking retarded people can be, stuck in their musical ways. I agree with the "fuck your short memory" and "all you know about me's what I sold you" sentiments!

[Artistic Sickness]

i agree with the above. Anyone who uses "sounds like Bob Dylan" in a negative sense is obviously lacking in the musical taste department. *smack*

[burning bridges]

Best B-side I have ever heard.....

[elburritobandito]

also, i believe his mom died in 2003...lataralus was 2001....
thus i think your post is very wrong
loser!


This was brought up and discussed eariler in the thread.. before people started writing shitty one line posts that end with "loser" and "you suck"..

i think it is hilarious how angry people get when one of these "decoy album" threads gets started.. so someone has an elaborate theory involving an album conspiracy.. who cares? great! discuss it...

nope... instead lets get worked up like fundies at a harry potter premiere..

better yet.. lets try to "prove" to each other that this song is good or bad and not a complete matter of taste. but most importantly, be offended when others dont agree.

[Orph8998]

This was brought up and discussed eariler in the thread.. before people started writing shitty one line posts that end with "loser" and "you suck"..

i think it is hilarious how angry people get when one of these "decoy album" threads gets started.. so someone has an elaborate theory involving an album conspiracy.. who cares? great! discuss it...

nope... instead lets get worked up like fundies at a harry potter premiere..

better yet.. lets try to "prove" to each other that this song is good or bad and not a complete matter of taste. but most importantly, be offended when others dont agree.

ahhha! i see, im sorry i was doing it wrong, we should all sit around and just talk about it...instead of thinking and using proofs and reasons.

"dude it could be true"
"nah man, way not"
"yeah man, way could"
"alright man, i think your right"
"cool"

[seneca77]

two weeks from now when all of you realize this is the real deal...dont hit the wall as views take an about face. who gives a fuck anyway, tool does not need fans like you people.

[Orph8998]

tool doesn't need fans...otherwise they'd kick adam jones out

[Masterangelbasher]

I think that If it's a B-side or a double album, Wings1 and wings 2 are the only songs that absolutly, without question, were freshly written. The only two songs from the leak that cannot be sandwiched into any of the past albums. The other songs could all be on previous albums. Wings just doesn't fit into any other album...........Did I say album a bunch of times?

[themayanlion]

hahaha god i hate this place

[unfnknblvbl]

OK, I'm going to break this down and address each point...

Alright, so I posted in the rumors section that I believe this album is a bunch of b-sides. This song is a good example because it was obviously written during the recording of Lateralus.

First look at the structure. 10,000 days shares a lot in common with both the song Lateralus and Reflection: lyrics broken up by long stretches of music - the stretch starts off slow and gradually grows into something awesome.

That's the thing about developing - you tend to find something that works and refine it. You could argue that the Finale to Mahler's 6th Symphony is just a rehash of the opeining to the 3rd Symphony because they follow a similar musical structure, but the fact of the matter is that composers (including bands like Tool) often find a structure that works and play with it for a while. In the case of Classical music, Sonata Form has been around for about 300 years, and isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and the Fugue has been around even longer.
In the case of popular music, the accepted Verse/Chorus/Verse form has been around since The Beatles, at least.. once you add a Bridge section, you suddenly have Sonata form.
Vicarious actually shares a very similar song structure to Lateralus, more so than Wings does.

Next just listen to the guitar solo in 10,000 days that begins at about 5:45. It fades in and out of the solos that are in Lateralus begining at about 4:15 and on Reflection at about 7:35. The 10,000 days solo is just like those with the exception that those are way better solos that this one. And think about this logically, why would Adam make the solos so similar. Tool tours for about 4 months playing in a new city practically every other day. It would get tedious playing the same songs over and over. He is going to want to play something new - he is not going to write another solo that sounds like the same thing he has been playing the last 5 years.

Really? You could argue that he wants something that's easy to remember. Do tool always play the exact same solos live? Having never seen them live, I can't pass comment there, but it's generally accepted practice to vary your solos. Besides, what fits the music fits the music, I'd be putting it down to mere coincidence that they sound similar, because to my ears, they don't.

Alright next, look at how boring this song is. Before I started listening to Tool I thought the drums must be the most boring instrument to play because you basically play the same beat for about four minutes with only the occasional fill-in to look forward to. This is not so with Tool - with tool, the drums own. But in 10,000 days Danny is barely there for the first 5:30 of the song. And he basically is absent in Wings for Marie (other than the 10 seconds where they rock out). If they were to play this song live with it preceded by Wings for Marie, which makes sense given they are two parts, Danny would be doing practically nothing for about 11 minutes. He is the best drummer out there, why would they have him sit around occasionally chiming in on his symbols for 11 minutes - they wouldn't. This song is a b-side.

I, and many others, do not find this song boring at all. Drums aren't everything, and neither are guitar, bass or vocals. Together though, they are capable of producing a rich tapestry of sound, and often times, it is the absence of of a thing that makes the whole seem more special. I also suspect that Danny is more active than you are giving him credit for - he does have that super-amazing-electro-thinger that's basically just a MIDI controller - it's possible that he's controlling some of the 'background' sounds that you/we assume to be post-production effects while he's not actively 'drumming'.
Also, there is the fact that the band themselves would have arranged the song from scratch - that means from the first jamming days after/during the Lateralus recording and on the tour. They would have come to the conclusion for themselves as to what sort of percussion sounds they wanted, if any. In fact, it is more than likely that it was Danny himself that decided that.

Alright finally, the lyrics in this song are weak. It's alright to be critical of Tool guys - you think Shakespeare never threw out a few pages of writing? I agree with the guy who said Maynard is hypocritical by writing a song that has so many christian references after writing songs like Opiate, Eulogy, Judith, Flood, etc. These lyrics sound like they are out of a Bob Dylan song ("some are carpenters wives") not a Tool song ("you showed us you weren't afraid to die, well so long").

Again, I and many others do not feel these lyrics to be weak at all. Nor do I find it hypocritical for Maynard to be singing these things - after all, he's only ever sung about the middle-men of religion. Yes, in Judith, he seemed pretty pissed off because of his mother's situation, but that happens. Opiate was about a preacher, Eulogy was neither explicitly nor implicitly about christianity; the only reference was the Cross bit at the end, and that's a fairly common phrase to use, "get of your fucking cross".
Wings is about his mother's beliefs. He hopes that she will find her place in heaven, in accordance with her beliefs. It's pretty damned obvious, and I'm amazed there's so many people that don't get that.

I know a ton of you are going to flood the forum with "this song is about his mom dude, not christianity." Well, fair enough, I recognize that, but that doesn't account for the obvious Bob Dylanness of the song. And seriously... Bob Dylan has written enough Bob Dylan, but Tool hasn't written enough Tool.

But have Tool written enough Dylan?
Seriously though, I haven't heard any Dylan, so I can't really comment on that, other than that I've heard he's a great lyricist/poet, so what's wrong with somebody else managing to do that? Maynard is a brilliant lyricist too.

I think Maynard recognized the lyrics were under par so he ditched them, and instead we got a song whose lyrics, when sung, form a fibonacci sequence. That's cool shit.

You can think what you want, but I seriously doubt that that's the case.