The real meaning of 10000 Days (worth reading)

[QuantumMind]

I know this may seem a little strange but it makes sense. I was wondering what the meaning of 10000 days was so I did a little research. I can tell from the lyrics that it is about his mom dying, but what is the significance of 10000 days. Well I found out that his mom had a stroke and was paralyized when Maynard was 11 he talks about this in the song jimmy "What was it like to see, The face of your own stability, Suddenly look away, Leaving you with the dead and hopeless?, Eleven and she was gone. Eleven is when we waved good-bye. Eleven is standing still,". With this in mind the song Judith is about how mad he was at god for doing this to his mom [1]. Now if you think of when his mom died, on June 18th 2003, and when maynard was 11 years old April 17, 1975 - April 16, 1976 do the math and it is right around 10000 days. So this song is about him accepting his mom's death and "10000 days in the fire is long enough, your going home" is saying that it is finally time for his mom to leave this hell on earth and to go where she belongs.


[1]
You're such an inspiration
For the ways
That I'll never ever choose to be
Oh so many ways for me to show you
How your savior has abandoned you

(FUCK Your God)
Your Lord, your Christ
(He did this)
Took all you had and
(Left you this way)
Still you pray, never stray, never
(Taste of the fruit)
Never thought to question why

It's not like you killed someone
It's not like you drove a hateful spear
Into his side
Praise the one who left you
Broken down and paralyzed
He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...

Oh so many ways
For me to show you
How your dogma has abandoned you

(Pray)
To your Christ, to your God
(Never taste of the fruit)
Never stray, never break, never
(Choke on a lie)
Even though he's the one who
(Did this to you)
You never thought to question why

It's not like you killed someone
It's not like you drove a spiteful spear
Into his side
Talk to Jesus Christ
As if he knows the reasons why
He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...

[46and2aheadofme]

I know this may seem a little strange but it makes sense. I was wondering what the meaning of 10000 days was so I did a little research. I can tell from the lyrics that it is about his mom dying, but what is the significance of 10000 days. Well I found out that his mom had a stroke and was paralyized when Maynard was 11 he talks about this in the song jimmy "What was it like to see, The face of your own stability, Suddenly look away, Leaving you with the dead and hopeless?, Eleven and she was gone. Eleven is when we waved good-bye. Eleven is standing still,". With this in mind the song Judith is about how mad he was at god for doing this to his mom [1]. Now if you think of when his mom died, on June 18th 2003, and when maynard was 11 years old April 17, 1975 - April 16, 1976 do the math and it is right around 10000 days. So this song is about him accepting his mom's death and "10000 days in the fire is long enough, your going home" is saying that it is finally time for his mom to leave this hell on earth and to go where she belongs.


[1]
You're such an inspiration
For the ways
That I'll never ever choose to be
Oh so many ways for me to show you
How your savior has abandoned you

(FUCK Your God)
Your Lord, your Christ
(He did this)
Took all you had and
(Left you this way)
Still you pray, never stray, never
(Taste of the fruit)
Never thought to question why

It's not like you killed someone
It's not like you drove a hateful spear
Into his side
Praise the one who left you
Broken down and paralyzed
He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...

Oh so many ways
For me to show you
How your dogma has abandoned you

(Pray)
To your Christ, to your God
(Never taste of the fruit)
Never stray, never break, never
(Choke on a lie)
Even though he's the one who
(Did this to you)
You never thought to question why

It's not like you killed someone
It's not like you drove a spiteful spear
Into his side
Talk to Jesus Christ
As if he knows the reasons why
He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...


Kudos, bro. Looks like you're one of the few that figured it out on your own. Although a few did the math even before the album came out (show-offs!).

[Spiralman]

I know this may seem a little strange but it makes sense. I was wondering what the meaning of 10000 days was so I did a little research. I can tell from the lyrics that it is about his mom dying, but what is the significance of 10000 days. Well I found out that his mom had a stroke and was paralyized when Maynard was 11 he talks about this in the song jimmy "What was it like to see, The face of your own stability, Suddenly look away, Leaving you with the dead and hopeless?, Eleven and she was gone. Eleven is when we waved good-bye. Eleven is standing still,". With this in mind the song Judith is about how mad he was at god for doing this to his mom [1]. Now if you think of when his mom died, on June 18th 2003, and when maynard was 11 years old April 17, 1975 - April 16, 1976 do the math and it is right around 10000 days. So this song is about him accepting his mom's death and "10000 days in the fire is long enough, your going home" is saying that it is finally time for his mom to leave this hell on earth and to go where she belongs.


[1]
You're such an inspiration
For the ways
That I'll never ever choose to be
Oh so many ways for me to show you
How your savior has abandoned you

(FUCK Your God)
Your Lord, your Christ
(He did this)
Took all you had and
(Left you this way)
Still you pray, never stray, never
(Taste of the fruit)
Never thought to question why

It's not like you killed someone
It's not like you drove a hateful spear
Into his side
Praise the one who left you
Broken down and paralyzed
He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...

Oh so many ways
For me to show you
How your dogma has abandoned you

(Pray)
To your Christ, to your God
(Never taste of the fruit)
Never stray, never break, never
(Choke on a lie)
Even though he's the one who
(Did this to you)
You never thought to question why

It's not like you killed someone
It's not like you drove a spiteful spear
Into his side
Talk to Jesus Christ
As if he knows the reasons why
He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...

I always listened to "Judith" and thought he was angry at the person he was singing about but now that I read the lyrics in that context, he's definitely mad at the divinity they worship, not the person. Interesting...

[QuantumMind]

I just realized that the relevance of the name Jimmy comes from James in Maynard James Keenan. I remember reading somewhere that his mom used to call him Jimmy. I never thought until today that Jimmy was about himself.

[zoomster]

yes, if you want more discussion about jimmy there are lots of topics in this forum discussing it

[Narcasist]

Yup, jimmy and judith make alot more sense now that 10,000 days is out. I never realized that he was mad at God because his mother became paralyzed. I always thought he didnt like his mother. It all falls into place now.

[troutp]

http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=42560

I made the same discoveries =D

[Dispatch]

I think this song puts The Grudge into context too when you consider the lyrics (Saturn ascending equaling aproximatly 10,000 days). It's basically a song about forgiveness after a long period of animosity.

[Zenith]

i agree 100% w/ this post. for some reason i always thought Jimmy was about maynard and his dad, but I have changed my mind.

good work.

[Jorge]

Funny how it took me Jimmy, Judith, and 10,000 days before I finally understood what he was talking about.

[burning bridges]

I think this song puts The Grudge into context too when you consider the lyrics (Saturn ascending equaling aproximatly 10,000 days). It's basically a song about forgiveness after a long period of animosity.

That is very interesting.

[imatoolhed]

I just realized that the relevance of the name Jimmy comes from James in Maynard James Keenan. I remember reading somewhere that his mom used to call him Jimmy. I never thought until today that Jimmy was about himself.his real name is james hebert keenan
TOOL LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ktrip]

Funny how it took me Jimmy, Judith, and 10,000 days before I finally understood what he was talking about.


why funny?

maynards lyrics are generally vague for a reason. theres no shame in not knowing wtf hes on about all the time... ok fair enough, 10kd lyrics are less vague, and more of a slap to the face...

[jessicajessjessica]

judith is such a profound experience, and with wings for marie..the pattern of grief maynard has experienced seems to be joined together. His extreme emotion and loss comes through astoundingly and its so beautiful, it gets me every single time.

[Opiate_Mass]

10,000 days is also the rough amount of time that Jesus of Nazareth was persecuted for his views on life. -.-
-just my two cents worth-

[jklanham]

true..but judith is an aggressive song,wings for marie is a beautiful song,
there both emotional songs .

[girlwiththesuninherhead]

I always listened to "Judith" and thought he was angry at the person he was singing about but now that I read the lyrics in that context, he's definitely mad at the divinity they worship, not the person. Interesting...
Really? I always felt it was fairly obvious that judith especially was him talking to a believer about how little their God has done for them etc...
And yes, it makes a lot of sense he would be mad at God given the situation, and his mother's unrelenting belief despite all that she'd been through.

[kaiowas_is]

nice interpretation i was thinking the same thing with judith, but never really knew jimmy had any relation to his mother, well done.

[minnull]

I also see a correlation with 10,000 days and The Noose, APC. Just something about the way he says "How we'll rise to the height of our halo." vs. "With your halo slipping down" It seems to me like hes emphasizing halo as his mother's beliefs.

"So glad to see you well
Overcome and completely silent now
With heaven's help
You cast your demons out"

[Sprout]

10,000days - 36.5years - "Bible clearly said that Jesus was resurrected 36.5 "Biblical" years after His birth"

[Perseensilmä]

10,000days - 36.5years - "Bible clearly said that Jesus was resurrected 36.5 "Biblical" years after His birth"

You should take a math class or something.






I always listened to "Judith" and thought he was angry at the person he was singing about but now that I read the lyrics in that context, he's definitely mad at the divinity they worship, not the person. Interesting...

Not necessarely. Maynard by himself isn´t necessarely mad at all. I think the song "Judith" tells more about Judith than about the narrator, how strong was her faith and so on.

Or Maynard could just be looking at the situation from that certain point of view (god is an asshole). It´s not like singers have to truly experience everything they sing about or writers what they write about. He may just be giving us A point of view, not necessarely HIS point of view.

[Sprout]

The angle 3.59758° has astronomical significance. In 10,000 days, there are 366.01 lunar orbits, and in 10,000 rotations there are 365.01 lunar orbits. This most significant intercalation of these three periods are products of the three fundamental astronomical motions, earth rotation and lunar and solar orbits. The difference between lunar orbit motion per 100 days and per 100 earth rotations is 3.59758° or CIR/100, equal to the distances from the Tara complex and from the Newgrange complex to the Avebury complex. Multiplying degrees of lunar orbit motion per rotation and per day each times 10,000 results in nearly 360° of difference. Mean lunar orbit per rotation (R27) equals 13.1404° and, at this latitude, CIR/100 equals about 1,314,040 ft.

[QuantumMind]

ok

[usa4jer]

Great post. It also says something about his eventual respect for his mother's faith when Maynard says "Fetch me the spirit, the son, and the father", which is obviously the Christian holy trinity that Maynard aledgedly doesn't believe in at all himself.

[Perseensilmä]

The angle 3.59758° has astronomical significance. In 10,000 days, there are 366.01 lunar orbits, and in 10,000 rotations there are 365.01 lunar orbits. This most significant intercalation of these three periods are products of the three fundamental astronomical motions, earth rotation and lunar and solar orbits. The difference between lunar orbit motion per 100 days and per 100 earth rotations is 3.59758° or CIR/100, equal to the distances from the Tara complex and from the Newgrange complex to the Avebury complex. Multiplying degrees of lunar orbit motion per rotation and per day each times 10,000 results in nearly 360° of difference. Mean lunar orbit per rotation (R27) equals 13.1404° and, at this latitude, CIR/100 equals about 1,314,040 ft.

Great. Still you don´t know how many years 10,000 days is.

[bogsnarth]

10 000 divided by 365 = 27.3972603

and if you average the normal 365 day year with the 366 day leap year, you get an average year length of 365.5 which yeilds:

10 000 divided by 365.5 = 27.3597811

so yeah.. no matter how you slice it, 10000 days is no where near 36.5 years.

[profundo giallo]

I also see a correlation with 10,000 days and The Noose, APC. Just something about the way he says "How we'll rise to the height of our halo." vs. "With your halo slipping down" It seems to me like hes emphasizing halo as his mother's beliefs.

"So glad to see you well
Overcome and completely silent now
With heaven's help
You cast your demons out"

The Noose is not about his mother.Its about a reformed addict being self righteous about being clean for so long and forgetting about the wrongs they commited while being addicted.Maynard explains this on the commentary on the aMOTION dvd.

[SubconsciousFeer]

hmm sorry not providing an insightful comment at all, but does anyone know if Jimmy is actually listed as jimmy, with a lower case j. i remember reading it on the tdn faq and im a sort of itunes freak that i like to have the details of a song correct:)

[dissonance19]

I'm pretty sure I read a concert review of some sort saying that Maynard said live before they played jimmy. It was like Prison Sex 2. Seeing who you became or who you have become since the abuse. I think people may be stretching looking for a connection between that and this and Judith.

edit:

http://toolshed.down.net/tour/summer97/970629.html

ah here we go..


Maynard was intense as usual but "danced" less and stared
more. The quote before Jimmy (paraphrase):

"A little earlier we played a song called Prison Sex...It
was about recoginzing the cycle of abuse. That's the first
step...the next step is to work through it...that's what
this song is about..."

[Vaginal Replicator]

haha you guys are such n00bs. who analyses tool songs. ***s

[a reflection]

I'm pretty sure I read a concert review of some sort saying that Maynard said live before they played jimmy. It was like Prison Sex 2. Seeing who you became or who you have become since the abuse. I think people may be stretching looking for a connection between that and this and Judith.

edit:

http://toolshed.down.net/tour/summer97/970629.html

ah here we go..


Maynard was intense as usual but "danced" less and stared
more. The quote before Jimmy (paraphrase):

"A little earlier we played a song called Prison Sex...It
was about recoginzing the cycle of abuse. That's the first
step...the next step is to work through it...that's what
this song is about..."

I agree, and disagee. The song Jimmy is almost undoubtedly about him working through his difficult childhood and reconnecting with the 11 year old HE was at the time the "face of [his] own stability suddenly look[ed] away."

I'm totally on board with the original poster for the 10,000 days reference. The 3 songs are certainly connected in subject matter. His mother, his childhood, where he was left then, where he is left now, where he hopes to go, and how he hopes to get there.


PS.

As a side-note, I've never been certain that "Judith's" meaning was the apparent and obvious one. This could well relate (at least dichotomously) to a person who may have "left" his mother "this way." I'd be somewhat curious to the details of how his father handled his mothers condition, for instance.

[ljasonl]

10 000 divided by 365 = 27.3972603

and if you average the normal 365 day year with the 366 day leap year, you get an average year length of 365.5 which yeilds:

10 000 divided by 365.5 = 27.3597811

so yeah.. no matter how you slice it, 10000 days is no where near 36.5 years.

Leap year is every 4 years, so the average would be 365.25 days/year. That's still not entirely accurate for the length of a year but it's pretty close

Not that it matters because 10,000 days is obviously a rounded off number rather than having a song called "9,573 Days" or whatever it would come out to be

[ljasonl]

I think this song puts The Grudge into context too when you consider the lyrics (Saturn ascending equaling aproximatly 10,000 days). It's basically a song about forgiveness after a long period of animosity.

His mother died in 2003, after The Grudge was already released for 2 years. Obviously 10,000 days would have had no significance at the time The Grudge was written and there can be no relation

[<wood>]

One thing I was thinking through my 2nd or 3rd listen... I believe everything happens for a reason, and although quite sad his mother suffered for sooooo long, Here we are all discussing how much one person meant to another, and examine our own spirituality and such... No doubt Maynard has suffered too, tremendously so. I mean come on, an 11 year old with no functioning mother (although I don't really know the extent of her paralysis) how tough would that be. I lost my dad at age 10, and that was a real life changer. So to sum it up... Maynards mom has touched us all, and thanks to MJK for sharing such a trajic part of his life.
I checked out his wine web site, and in one of the photos, it shows him with his son. I think age 5. Well as a parent myself, having children definately changes your perspective both on the here and now and the ever after...

[rockchalk2006]

I dont know if this has been mentioned or not, but on the APC live dvd, there is commentary w/ Maynard about APC's music video's. I was looking forward to hearing it for Judith. He explains that when he says "Fuck your God", he's saying fuck the middle man that has his own interpretation of a religion/belief and tries to push/force it on others. Those are his words. I don't think he is saying "Fuck God". But hey this is an opinon section so...yea peace.

[imonlysleeping]

that might be the context of the song, but the album name 10,000 day, i think, has a lot different meaning.

[bogsnarth]

Leap year is every 4 years, so the average would be 365.25 days/year. That's still not entirely accurate for the length of a year but it's pretty close

Not that it matters because 10,000 days is obviously a rounded off number rather than having a song called "9,573 Days" or whatever it would come out to be
oh, my mistake.. i was doing it in a hurry.. averaging out the leap years should be more like 365x3 + 366 divided by 4.. so you're right it would be 365.25.. i just added 365+366 and divded by 2.

[Xariable]

I also see a correlation with 10,000 days and The Noose, APC. Just something about the way he says "How we'll rise to the height of our halo." vs. "With your halo slipping down" It seems to me like hes emphasizing halo as his mother's beliefs.

"So glad to see you well
Overcome and completely silent now
With heaven's help
You cast your demons out"

If you watch aMotion Maynard offers a different meaning behind the noose.

[klaye]

I've been a big fan for many years, but never joined the opinion forums until now.
I was so blown away by 'Wings pt 1 & 2' that I just had to see if anyone else was having the same experience. I am glad to see I'm not alone. Ever since 'jimmy' I've always wondered what the hell happened to Maynard at age 11 that was so traumatic that he felt like he needed to reconcile with his 11 year-old self. I sort of always figured it was about his mom based on the 'face of your own stability' and '11 she was gone' lines, but I never knew for sure. I must admit that with 'Wings pt. 1 & 2', that it didn't click with me on the first two passes through, mainly because I was busy trying to take in everythying, not just lyrics, but by the third time around the song hit me so hard both lyrically & musically that I couldn't handle it. I thought I was either gonna cry or throw up. I really wasn't prepared for the emotional left-hook. Once I knew what was going on in the song, my mind flashed straight back to 'Judith' and then to 'Jimmy' and it all made sense. In a strange way I kind of feel guilty, like Maynard has said too much. He's really laid a huge part of himself out there personally and emotionally with this one. Listening to the song, I feel like I've just accidentally walked in on someone who's totally naked. But at the same time, I realize that Tool's continual ability to pack this much substance into their music is also why most of us became Tool fans in the first place....

[anajberg]

Also, on top of Judith, Jimmy, and Wings pt 1 & 2, what about the fairly obvious lines in APC's Orestes - 'give me one more medicated peaceful moment - gotta cut away, clear away, slip away and sever this umbilical etc..." - these lines are clearly about the dilemma of watching his mother die - first that the reason you keep someone in a terrible/ terminal state alive is the hope of that one last moment of clarity, that somehow you might miraculously get to see who they were before for just one last moment. This contrasts with the knowledge of just how cruel and selfish it is to keep someone alive for such a purpose.

I've been a big fan for many years, but never joined the opinion forums until now.
I was so blown away by 'Wings pt 1 & 2' that I just had to see if anyone else was having the same experience. I am glad to see I'm not alone. Ever since 'jimmy' I've always wondered what the hell happened to Maynard at age 11 that was so traumatic that he felt like he needed to reconcile with his 11 year-old self. I sort of always figured it was about his mom based on the 'face of your own stability' and '11 she was gone' lines, but I never knew for sure. I must admit that with 'Wings pt. 1 & 2', that it didn't click with me on the first two passes through, mainly because I was busy trying to take in everythying, not just lyrics, but by the third time around the song hit me so hard both lyrically & musically that I couldn't handle it. I thought I was either gonna cry or throw up. I really wasn't prepared for the emotional left-hook. Once I knew what was going on in the song, my mind flashed straight back to 'Judith' and then to 'Jimmy' and it all made sense. In a strange way I kind of feel guilty, like Maynard has said too much. He's really laid a huge part of himself out there personally and emotionally with this one. Listening to the song, I feel like I've just accidentally walked in on someone who's totally naked. But at the same time, I realize that Tool's continual ability to pack this much substance into their music is also why most of us became Tool fans in the first place....

[khemystri]

I dont know if this has been mentioned or not, but on the APC live dvd, there is commentary w/ Maynard about APC's music video's. I was looking forward to hearing it for Judith. He explains that when he says "Fuck your God", he's saying fuck the middle man that has his own interpretation of a religion/belief and tries to push/force it on others. Those are his words. I don't think he is saying "Fuck God". But hey this is an opinon section so...yea peace.

yeah what he said.....

Fuck YOUR god, was directed at the congregation his mother belonged to....
His anger at their interpretation of her illness. If I remember the
Amotion commentary correctly.

[bellamadia]

Also, on top of Judith, Jimmy, and Wings pt 1 & 2, what about the fairly obvious lines in APC's Orestes - 'give me one more medicated peaceful moment - gotta cut away, clear away, slip away and sever this umbilical etc..." - these lines are clearly about the dilemma of watching his mother die - first that the reason you keep someone in a terrible/ terminal state alive is the hope of that one last moment of clarity, that somehow you might miraculously get to see who they were before for just one last moment. This contrasts with the knowledge of just how cruel and selfish it is to keep someone alive for such a purpose.

Yes, I made the same observations as the person that started this thread about the real meaning of 10,000 days. I think a lot of people figured it out. You, however, are one of the few people that I know that thinks the same as me about Orestes. Orestes comes from greek mythology and a lot of people got too caught up on that relationship and aren't seeing the obvious connection. "This umbilical residue keeping me from killing you" and the lines you mention above seem to refer to his mother at her last moments. My nana (my favorite grandma) had a major stroke in February paralyzing her and my mother had to make decisions for her about her life wishes and she could not find it in herself to allow them to let her die if it came to that. Instead, they heavily medicate her to help her feel better as she lives on in this horrible way. I can totally relate to this. Even if it's not the real meaning, It helps me to relate it like this.

[anajberg]

finishing out the quote - keeping me from killing you - furthers the idea in connection with Judith Marie already being in hell, maynard unable to "put her out her misery." that's why the "one more medicated peaceful moment" is such a powerful instance because of the vivid and emotional scene he's drawing.

Yes, I made the same observations as the person that started this thread about the real meaning of 10,000 days. I think a lot of people figured it out. You, however, are one of the few people that I know that thinks the same as me about Orestes. Orestes comes from greek mythology and a lot of people got too caught up on that relationship and aren't seeing the obvious connection. "This umbilical residue keeping me from killing you" and the lines you mention above seem to refer to his mother at her last moments. My nana (my favorite grandma) had a major stroke in February paralyzing her and my mother had to make decisions for her about her life wishes and she could not find it in herself to allow them to let her die if it came to that. Instead, they heavily medicate her to help her feel better as she lives on in this horrible way. I can totally relate to this. Even if it's not the real meaning, It helps me to relate it like this.

[Disgustipation]

I always listened to "Judith" and thought he was angry at the person he was singing about but now that I read the lyrics in that context, he's definitely mad at the divinity they worship, not the person. Interesting...
i think you have something here buddy. I knew from the instant i first listened to wings and 10,000 days that it had something to do withhis mother, redemtion and possibly god finally giving something back to his mother. I did not make the connections with the other songs until i read this. Good job!

[Carny_Handles]

His mother died in 2003, after The Grudge was already released for 2 years. Obviously 10,000 days would have had no significance at the time The Grudge was written and there can be no relation


there's another, reasonable explanation for this though, maynard is a time traveler ..it's proof right there.

[Oeps]

Interessting read

Cheers

[pjfan]

Rather than being mad at God, I think in Judith he was mad at the "religious types" who surrounded his mother and told her that God was using her for a special purpose or what not.

[Iluvatar]

I've been a big fan for many years, but never joined the opinion forums until now.
I was so blown away by 'Wings pt 1 & 2' that I just had to see if anyone else was having the same experience. I am glad to see I'm not alone. Ever since 'jimmy' I've always wondered what the hell happened to Maynard at age 11 that was so traumatic that he felt like he needed to reconcile with his 11 year-old self. I sort of always figured it was about his mom based on the 'face of your own stability' and '11 she was gone' lines, but I never knew for sure. I must admit that with 'Wings pt. 1 & 2', that it didn't click with me on the first two passes through, mainly because I was busy trying to take in everythying, not just lyrics, but by the third time around the song hit me so hard both lyrically & musically that I couldn't handle it. I thought I was either gonna cry or throw up. I really wasn't prepared for the emotional left-hook. Once I knew what was going on in the song, my mind flashed straight back to 'Judith' and then to 'Jimmy' and it all made sense. In a strange way I kind of feel guilty, like Maynard has said too much. He's really laid a huge part of himself out there personally and emotionally with this one. Listening to the song, I feel like I've just accidentally walked in on someone who's totally naked. But at the same time, I realize that Tool's continual ability to pack this much substance into their music is also why most of us became Tool fans in the first place....

Absolutely EXACTLY the same experience I had. It was unlike anything I've ever experienced while listening to music. Then it happened again and again, each time I listened.

Then, on my way home from work, as I belted out the lyrics "Judith Marie, unconditional ooooooooooone" I had another glorious, tear-jerking breakdown realizing that millions of people, just like me, will sing his mother's name and feel a tiny slice of his pain. What a glorious band is Tool, the last of the great rock poets.

Ainulindale,
Iluvatar

[scar]

I've been a big fan for many years, but never joined the opinion forums until now.
I was so blown away by 'Wings pt 1 & 2' that I just had to see if anyone else was having the same experience. I am glad to see I'm not alone. Ever since 'jimmy' I've always wondered what the hell happened to Maynard at age 11 that was so traumatic that he felt like he needed to reconcile with his 11 year-old self. I sort of always figured it was about his mom based on the 'face of your own stability' and '11 she was gone' lines, but I never knew for sure. I must admit that with 'Wings pt. 1 & 2', that it didn't click with me on the first two passes through, mainly because I was busy trying to take in everythying, not just lyrics, but by the third time around the song hit me so hard both lyrically & musically that I couldn't handle it. I thought I was either gonna cry or throw up. I really wasn't prepared for the emotional left-hook. Once I knew what was going on in the song, my mind flashed straight back to 'Judith' and then to 'Jimmy' and it all made sense. In a strange way I kind of feel guilty, like Maynard has said too much. He's really laid a huge part of himself out there personally and emotionally with this one. Listening to the song, I feel like I've just accidentally walked in on someone who's totally naked. But at the same time, I realize that Tool's continual ability to pack this much substance into their music is also why most of us became Tool fans in the first place....

WOW! this was this person's first and only post, and it is so goddamn right on it's BEAUTIFUL! just had to say so, it is sooo perfectly put.

[scar]

Rather than being mad at God, I think in Judith he was mad at the "religious types" who surrounded his mother and told her that God was using her for a special purpose or what not.


perfectly valid. i think i agree with you.

[pivotal digit]

you dorks are why im a tool dork good work on feeling real...

[Haidar]

you dorks are why im a tool dork good work on feeling real...
Pure poetry.

[bellamadia]

you dorks are why im a tool dork good work on feeling real...

Is this supposed to make sense?

[GreenBudsGreenTea]

I've been a big fan for many years, but never joined the opinion forums until now.

I think Judith and all of Mer de Noms for that matter is about different romantic relationships not maynards mom.....Judith is about an abusive relationship that the woman just continues to make excuses to be in ....
Praise the one who left you
Broken down and paralyzed
He did it all for you...

[bellamadia]

I've been a big fan for many years, but never joined the opinion forums until now.

I think Judith and all of Mer de Noms for that matter is about different romantic relationships not maynards mom.....Judith is about an abusive relationship that the woman just continues to make excuses to be in ....
Praise the one who left you
Broken down and paralyzed
He did it all for you...

LOL ARE YOU SERIOUS? You're kidding right? The title is fucking JUDITH, it doesn't get much clearer that that. Not to mention Fuck your GOD, your LORD, your CHRIST, he did this! I hope you're kidding and not seriously that stupid!

[bogsnarth]

well aside from the fact that maynard writes lyrics that are meant to be open to personal interpretation, if you watch the apc dvd, he explains that Judith is in fact about his mom, or more specifically about the people who surrounded her.

[GreenBudsGreenTea]

LOL ARE YOU SERIOUS? You're kidding right? The title is fucking JUDITH, it doesn't get much clearer that that. Not to mention Fuck your GOD, your LORD, your CHRIST, he did this! I hope you're kidding and not seriously that stupid!



Wow a bit harsh no ?

I think a cool thing about tool is that the lyrics are very much about personal interpretation. Very rarely do you hear this song is about this or that. I remember reading when Mer came out that all the songs were about relationships and after many listens saw how it fit. I didnt realize Judith was his mom and the situation surrounding her religion and death untill now. Forgive my posting a thought on what always seems like a pretty open minded board. I bow to your superior knowledge. Can you also tell me what Maynard ate for lunch yesterday ?

[fallenxruby]

Great post. It also says something about his eventual respect for his mother's faith when Maynard says "Fetch me the spirit, the son, and the father", which is obviously the Christian holy trinity that Maynard aledgedly doesn't believe in at all himself.
definitely not. he is saying what his mother might say in this situation. he was raised christian, but realized he didn't want to follow organized religion. when you lose a parent, you tend to have to placate yourself with the comfortable thought of them living peacefully in heaven. even if you admit at other times that the very thought of what happens after death is too vast to really know. maynard probably was just resting in the idea that since his mother lived the epitome of a good, sacrificing christian life, she deserved that redemption that she so believed in. the song offers peace.

[bellamadia]

Wow a bit harsh no ?

I think a cool thing about tool is that the lyrics are very much about personal interpretation. Very rarely do you hear this song is about this or that. I remember reading when Mer came out that all the songs were about relationships and after many listens saw how it fit. I didnt realize Judith was his mom and the situation surrounding her religion and death untill now. Forgive my posting a thought on what always seems like a pretty open minded board. I bow to your superior knowledge. Can you also tell me what Maynard ate for lunch yesterday ?

Judging from the shit he left in the toilet I'd guess something with corn in it.

No seriously, I'm not claiming superior knowledge, I ASSummed that you were one of the people on here that say shit kidding to try to get a reaction. Guess I was wrong. Also, I assumed that everyone on here knew that Judith was Maynards mom's name since every post on here says it. If you just joined, then I apologize. Yes, what is cool about TOOL is that you can interpret the lyrics in many ways, however Judith is APC and they also tend to be more honest and clear cut in the meaning of their songs, particularly this one.

[GreenBudsGreenTea]

Judging from the shit he left in the toilet I'd guess something with corn in it.

No seriously, I'm not claiming superior knowledge, I ASSummed that you were one of the people on here that say shit kidding to try to get a reaction. Guess I was wrong. Also, I assumed that everyone on here knew that Judith was Maynards mom's name since every post on here says it. If you just joined, the I apologize. Yes, what is cool about TOOL is that you can interpret the lyrics in many ways, however Judith is APC and they also tend to be more honest and clear cut in the meaning of their songs, particularly this one.

Its all good.....I mean I knew jimmy was about his mom and I knew this was her eulogy but I didnt put 2 and 2 together with Judith.

Anyways.....I think this is going to be an unreal moment live.......

What a tribute....Maynard belting this out ...dealing with his emotions as thousands of us sing her name every night.

Last tour after 9/11 Maynard said to the crowd that he just hoped they could be a catalyst for some healing.....and that was emotional after losing some friends.....

This is going to be right on that level I think.....

[bellamadia]

Its all good.....I mean I knew jimmy was about his mom and I knew this was her eulogy but I didnt put 2 and 2 together with Judith.

Anyways.....I think this is going to be an unreal moment live.......

What a tribute....Maynard belting this out ...dealing with his emotions as thousands of us sing her name every night.

Last tour after 9/11 Maynard said to the crowd that he just hoped they could be a catalyst for some healing.....and that was emotional after losing some friends.....

This is going to be right on that level I think.....

Yes I agree. I did notice that you are a newbie to this site, I am very sorry for picking on you! You will learn a lot from this site so read on. Don't pay attention to at least half of it though, lol. Listen to Jimmy, Judith, Orestes and Wings for Marie/10,000 Days Wings 2 all in a row. It's so interesting how the have revealed meaning in eachother.

[½ - ∑mptﻹ]

damn quantumMind... you really went RIGHT to work on this one huh.

well, I picked up at least the fact that it was about his mother. infact the lyric "Judith Marie, my one unconditional" seems to me like the only dead giveaway lyric from Maynard as of yet as to who a particular song is about.

that alone hit me hard enough to make me stop what I was doing and stare at my stereo for a moment in dumbfounded admiration.

and all this...

woah.

[Butnz]

This is deffinately good stuff. The only thing I dont understand is Maynard's spirituality in song. Is it just a tribute to his mother, or something else, talking about getting wings and all? But then again the anger he has in the song Judith sounds very, very personnal.

I wish I didnt read this post so soon casue I had just read the 10,000 days lyrics and was putting it together, about to listen to Judith, but I wondered here instead.

[bloodydecember]

I always listened to "Judith" and thought he was angry at the person he was singing about but now that I read the lyrics in that context, he's definitely mad at the divinity they worship, not the person. Interesting...

If you really want to get maynard's take on the song buy the APC DVD eMOTION. On it is the Judith music video and there is an option to listen to the comentary. I won't spoil it for you but y'all are on the right track ;)

But as he says, there is no one way to interpret their lyrics. Everybody has different expteriences which lead them to interpret words differently. It's all a matter of perspective.

[bellamadia]

This is deffinately good stuff. The only thing I dont understand is Maynard's spirituality in song. Is it just a tribute to his mother, or something else, talking about getting wings and all?

I wish I didnt read this post so soon casue I had just read the 10,000 days lyrics and was putting it together, about to listen to Judith, but I wondered here instead.

Keep reading within the 10,000 Days (Wings pt 2) thread and you will find many interesting theroies on this. :)

[½ - ∑mptﻹ]

This is deffinately good stuff. The only thing I dont understand is Maynard's spirituality in song. Is it just a tribute to his mother, or something else, talking about getting wings and all?

I wish I didnt read this post so soon casue I had just read the 10,000 days lyrics and was putting it together, about to listen to Judith, but I wondered here instead.

I'm thinking that this is pretty much Maynards story of that 10,000 days she "waited". my assumption was that she waited in hell at first, though it's not really sensible to conclude that. because of "the fire". then I saw Quantum's math on his mother's stroke, and THAT was her wait for her "wings". living in a stroke probably couldn't have been pleasant. perhaps hellish. so I think I'm gonna stick to my interperetation cuz I fell into it so easy and yeah, living in a stroke probably WAS hell.

but anyway, her wings are probably just that age old symbol of an angel gettiing her ticket to heaven. the end of the song really had me moved, when he started talking about looking her maker in the eye and telling him firmly that she never took a life, never told a lie. my eyes welled up a bit.

[Ein SofDrink]

I just wanted to hop in and say that I'm pretty sure it was an aneurysm and not a stroke.

[chrysanthemum81]

[QUOTE=Perseensilmä]You should take a math class or something.

That's fucking priceless! I love it.

[Butnz]

I'm thinking that this is pretty much Maynards story of that 10,000 days she "waited". my assumption was that she waited in hell at first, though it's not really sensible to conclude that. because of "the fire". then I saw Quantum's math on his mother's stroke, and THAT was her wait for her "wings". living in a stroke probably couldn't have been pleasant. perhaps hellish. so I think I'm gonna stick to my interperetation cuz I fell into it so easy and yeah, living in a stroke probably WAS hell.

but anyway, her wings are probably just that age old symbol of an angel gettiing her ticket to heaven. the end of the song really had me moved, when he started talking about looking her maker in the eye and telling him firmly that she never took a life, never told a lie. my eyes welled up a bit.


you know what, I agree. At first, losing control of yourself would be hell. Then you would eventually accept it, just sitting, waiting for your time to "fly". This song is deffinately one of the most moving Tool songs.

That what I love about Tool, they can be so emotional at some points, then kick the shit out of you at , then really make you think about the bigger picture at other times.

[Butnz]

Keep reading within the 10,000 Days (Wings pt 2) thread and you will find many interesting theroies on this. :)

sounds like a plan

Edit - After reading RuleOfThree's post in the 'Spirituality and Subjectivity' thread, I see what your getting at Bellamadia. To talk about what she held sacred would be the best way to honor her. Even thogh Maynard might not have the same veiws.

[bellamadia]

sounds like a plan

Edit - After reading RuleOfThree's post in the 'Spirituality and Subjectivity' thread, I see what your getting at Bellamadia. To talk about what she held sacred would be the best way to honor her. Even thogh Maynard might not have the same veiws.

Yeah, it seems to me that is what he is doing in these songs. I think that makes them all the more beautiful... that though he does not believe, he loves his mom so much to honor her beliefs like this. Amazing to me.

[bellamadia]

I just wanted to hop in and say that I'm pretty sure it was an aneurysm and not a stroke.

I believe her obituary said that she suffered a stroke as a result of an aneurysm, I have to go back and look, I might be wrong.

[bloodydecember]

I believe her obituary said that she suffered a stroke as a result of an aneurysm, I have to go back and look, I might be wrong.

I think you're right

[K In Yo Mouf]

Excellent Post...

Made Me Realize a Few Thingz I Waz Thinking Differently On Be4...

[ThinkForYourselF]

I think you hit it pretty close about the real meaning. I've had a similar experience with a family member who was a devout church going catholic. Wife, kid, house, etc.. Then Brain tumor, three months later he was gone. I say this because I remember the EXACT time my faith had left me. I belive Jimmy lost his faith because of his mothers illness. 10,000 days is a plea for her to get what she belived in. And Maynard is on the phone yelling its her time now, give her what she gave you, that means NOW! I don't think he had a revelation but a release of sorts, not to ask but to TELL them she is worth it. Being a tool fan since the mohawk and leather pants days, to me this is the best song they have ever done. Oh by the way, check the lyrics for opiate.......

[Deltron3030]

some good discussion going on here. nice read

[the usual]

[QUOTE=Narcasist]Yup, jimmy and judith make alot more sense now that 10,000 days is out. I never realized that he was mad at God because his mother became paralyzed. I always thought he didnt like his mother. It all falls into place now.[/QUOTE


Have any of you guys watched the APC dvd.

The commentary that maynard gives is very informative.

[murphy]

This song, this album, this band, and this forum blow me away. Thanks for investigating and posting. I listened to the 10,000 days part two track about 15 times today on my ipod. I loved the arrangement and the passion. After I read this thread I listened to it again (concentrating on the lyrics this time) with tears in my eyes. Incredible. Thank you!

[Big Rig]

The angle 3.59758° has astronomical significance. In 10,000 days, there are 366.01 lunar orbits, and in 10,000 rotations there are 365.01 lunar orbits. This most significant intercalation of these three periods are products of the three fundamental astronomical motions, earth rotation and lunar and solar orbits. The difference between lunar orbit motion per 100 days and per 100 earth rotations is 3.59758° or CIR/100, equal to the distances from the Tara complex and from the Newgrange complex to the Avebury complex. Multiplying degrees of lunar orbit motion per rotation and per day each times 10,000 results in nearly 360° of difference. Mean lunar orbit per rotation (R27) equals 13.1404° and, at this latitude, CIR/100 equals about 1,314,040 ft.

Nice front. Googled it and found it word for word. And you still don't know the math.

[iuguolo]

Didn't have a life
Didn't have a life
But surely saved one

maynard saved?

[dissonance19]

Didn't have a life
Didn't have a life
But surely saved one

maynard saved?


no, I think he means SHE saved his life.

[themayanlion]

Yes, I made the same observations as the person that started this thread about the real meaning of 10,000 days. I think a lot of people figured it out. You, however, are one of the few people that I know that thinks the same as me about Orestes. Orestes comes from greek mythology and a lot of people got too caught up on that relationship and aren't seeing the obvious connection. "This umbilical residue keeping me from killing you" and the lines you mention above seem to refer to his mother at her last moments. My nana (my favorite grandma) had a major stroke in February paralyzing her and my mother had to make decisions for her about her life wishes and she could not find it in herself to allow them to let her die if it came to that. Instead, they heavily medicate her to help her feel better as she lives on in this horrible way. I can totally relate to this. Even if it's not the real meaning, It helps me to relate it like this.

that is very interesting. i had always wondered about what he might have been talking about in that song, what you said makes a lot of sense, taken in ctext with this song

[mjk_is_rfg]

I hope all of you realize that Maynard began as a stand-up comedian. I'm sure you all know this, as you are notorious for looking into every detail of every lyric, riff, and personal history of the band members. What you have most likely failed to connect though, is that Maynard is screwing with you all. He has been for 15 years now. None of this means anything to him. It's all an elaborate joke twisted up into a social experiment of throwing all sorts of random mystical elements into a song, juxtaposing them with tribal drums and weird time signatures, and seeing what kind of profundity the knuckleheads find. I personally think it's hilarious.

[rxsheepxr]

Kudos, bro. Looks like you're one of the few that figured it out on your own. Although a few did the math even before the album came out (show-offs!).

I'm new, so I don't expect a warm welcome, but I too figured all this out on mah own as well. It's all in my review that I did for my site.

Anyhow. It's great that there's always something to explore in a Tool song, something to research. It makes the album extend beyond the plastic cd and into the real world.

[rxsheepxr]

I hope all of you realize that Maynard began as a stand-up comedian. I'm sure you all know this, as you are notorious for looking into every detail of every lyric, riff, and personal history of the band members. What you have most likely failed to connect though, is that Maynard is screwing with you all. He has been for 15 years now. None of this means anything to him. It's all an elaborate joke twisted up into a social experiment of throwing all sorts of random mystical elements into a song, juxtaposing them with tribal drums and weird time signatures, and seeing what kind of profundity the knuckleheads find. I personally think it's hilarious.

If he's the fucking man, then you're the fucking man.

Say a valid point and I'll listen, otherwise don't bother shitting over something other people like.

[_colin_]

maynard came out on one of the apc dvds a comentary of the video and said it was not about a person but it was about the persons god (or his moms god)

[K In Yo Mouf]

Yup, Colin'z Right...

He Said, And Correct Me If I'm Wrong, Something Along the Linez of "When I'm Saying Fuck Your God, I'm Not Saying Fuck GOD, I'm Saying Fuck YOUR God, Fuck That Which Holdz u Down, Which Holdz u Back...", And THen I Believe He Goez On 2 Say "u Don't Need Religion, All u Need Iz Love" Or Something Like That...

I'm Not Sure the Exact Quote, Juzt Tryin 2 Give a Brief Synopsis Of Wat He Said...

[subtlety]

I think this song puts The Grudge into context too when you consider the lyrics (Saturn ascending equaling aproximatly 10,000 days). It's basically a song about forgiveness after a long period of animosity.

I like your point, and I definately think that there may be some relation between the grudge and judith, wings, 10000 days and jimmy. Personally I perceived the grudge to be too angry for a song about his mom, and specifically in regard to the "ascension of Saturn", I took as an astrological reference. the roman astrologer Marcus Manilius labelled Saturn as cold, lonely and miserable, representing the qualities of restriction, reality and crystalization. These qualities certainly fit the profile of an individual that Maynard could be talking about in the grudge, but anyway, thats just an idea I have about the grudge---back to 10000 days.

Some other Saturn facts to note:

Saturn's orbit takes 10,759.22 earth days to truly orbit the sun (that is to return to the same location relative to the stars). This is close to 10000 days but its a stretch.

But also to note in regards to Dispatch's post, Hinduism knew Saturn as the celestial being Shani, and he was worshipped by those going through a bad period in their lives. Based on Tool's and Alex Grey's (the artist that did the album artwork for Lateralus and 10000 days) references to the "third eye"and shakras (both Hindu symbols) I am now inclined to interpret the Saturn reference in the Grudge to hold the Hindu meanings, which fits very well with Dispatch's idea, that Saturn ascending is a period of forgiveness by someone going through a hard time (like when dealing with your mom's paralysis).

So to conclude this mess, as it is widely known throughout these forums there are many many potential interpretations of tool's lyrics, and I definately think that Dispatch has a good one here conecting the Grudge to 10000 days, jimmy and judith. It wasn't my perspective but after I looked into it I agree with it more and more. I just think it may be a stretch to base the connection on 10000 days equalling the length of saturn's orbit or "ascension".

[semi-sentient]

To the OP, thanks for the great read.

Wings for Marie and 10,000 Days are incredibly powerful songs. After just jamming the CD for several days, I finally decided to sit here and listen to it with the lyrics in front of me. I can't tell you how touching those two songs were. Now that I see the connection between this song and others, I understand more of where MJK was coming from throughout the years. I had started researching this subject today and came to the same conclusion, more or less, so I'm glad to see it confirmed.

[bellamadia]

I hope all of you realize that Maynard began as a stand-up comedian. I'm sure you all know this, as you are notorious for looking into every detail of every lyric, riff, and personal history of the band members. What you have most likely failed to connect though, is that Maynard is screwing with you all. He has been for 15 years now. None of this means anything to him. It's all an elaborate joke twisted up into a social experiment of throwing all sorts of random mystical elements into a song, juxtaposing them with tribal drums and weird time signatures, and seeing what kind of profundity the knuckleheads find. I personally think it's hilarious.

Wow that's an awfully involved and consuming social experiment. Couldn't he have done a survey or some shit to find out what "knuckleheads" we all are? Probably would have taken less time and energy.

Do you think that looking for our reactions to his head games are the sole purpose of his career and life for that matter? If you do, you are awfully self centered.

Idiot.

[semi-sentient]

^^^ I find it ironic that this guy seems to think he knows what Maynard's purpose is, then turns around and criticizes everyone here for the same thing. All we've done is offered a logical conclusion to these lyrics, all facts considered. That seems to fall on deaf ears, or in this case blind eyes, to the illogical.

[randomhero8823]

I know this may seem a little strange but it makes sense. I was wondering what the meaning of 10000 days was so I did a little research. I can tell from the lyrics that it is about his mom dying, but what is the significance of 10000 days. Well I found out that his mom had a stroke and was paralyized when Maynard was 11 he talks about this in the song jimmy "What was it like to see, The face of your own stability, Suddenly look away, Leaving you with the dead and hopeless?, Eleven and she was gone. Eleven is when we waved good-bye. Eleven is standing still,". With this in mind the song Judith is about how mad he was at god for doing this to his mom [1]. Now if you think of when his mom died, on June 18th 2003, and when maynard was 11 years old April 17, 1975 - April 16, 1976 do the math and it is right around 10000 days. So this song is about him accepting his mom's death and "10000 days in the fire is long enough, your going home" is saying that it is finally time for his mom to leave this hell on earth and to go where she belongs.


[1]
You're such an inspiration
For the ways
That I'll never ever choose to be
Oh so many ways for me to show you
How your savior has abandoned you

(FUCK Your God)
Your Lord, your Christ
(He did this)
Took all you had and
(Left you this way)
Still you pray, never stray, never
(Taste of the fruit)
Never thought to question why

It's not like you killed someone
It's not like you drove a hateful spear
Into his side
Praise the one who left you
Broken down and paralyzed
He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...

Oh so many ways
For me to show you
How your dogma has abandoned you

(Pray)
To your Christ, to your God
(Never taste of the fruit)
Never stray, never break, never
(Choke on a lie)
Even though he's the one who
(Did this to you)
You never thought to question why

It's not like you killed someone
It's not like you drove a spiteful spear
Into his side
Talk to Jesus Christ
As if he knows the reasons why
He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...


If you would like some good answers on Judith look no further than Maynard himself and go and buy the latest APC dvd aMOTION and listen to the great commentary on Judith (as well as the others) and he explains the song quite well.......it's not so much that he is angry at God but more so at the hippocrites who came to see his mom and told her how strong in her faith she was, then turn around and talk about her behind her back. After listening to the commentary it helps out alot with other songs like Jimmy and 10,000 days as well.

[bogsnarth]

I hope all of you realize that Maynard began as a stand-up comedian. I'm sure you all know this, as you are notorious for looking into every detail of every lyric, riff, and personal history of the band members. What you have most likely failed to connect though, is that Maynard is screwing with you all. He has been for 15 years now. None of this means anything to him. It's all an elaborate joke twisted up into a social experiment of throwing all sorts of random mystical elements into a song, juxtaposing them with tribal drums and weird time signatures, and seeing what kind of profundity the knuckleheads find. I personally think it's hilarious.
even if what you say is true (about which i am ambivalent) it doesn't matter.

t.s. eliot said, when formulating his ideas for critical analysis of poetry, that details about the personal life of the author are completely irrelevant to the interpretation/critique of the poem.. it doesn't matter if maynard's just fucking with the listener or if he's a High Adept (as one of my friends believes), the important thing is what the songs mean to the listener.

[adaptive.systems]

We listen to the tales and romanticize,
How we follow the path of the hero

We sit in church and are told to imagine how Jesus's life applies to our own.

Boast about the day when the rivers overrun,
How we'll rise to the height of our halo.

Christians hold themselves in high regard for their belief that they will be saved when armaggedon occurs. It's the day they think they'll all rise to heaven.

Listen to the tales as we all rationalize
Our way into the arms of the savior
Fading all the trials and the tribulations,
None of us have actually been there,
Not like you...

Believing is not enough because the mind is to intelligent to accept pure bullshit. The believers have to rationalize the beliefs in applicable methods to their lives or they won't believe they require salvation. Judith Marie does not have to rationalize her belief as she's been stricken with a seemingly random and crippling affliction and faith is all that keeps her sane.

The ignorant siblings in the congregation
Gather around spewing sympathy,
Spare me...

None of them can even hold a candle up to you
Blinded by choices, hypocrites
Won't see

The believers express their sympathies but Maynard understands that his mother is dead and in the ground, not beside any divine entity.

Their devotion pales in comparison to his mother's, but their choices of salvation or damnation blind them to the truth of his mother's nature.

But enough about the collective Judas
Who could deny you were the one who illuminated
Your little piece of the divine

This little light of mine it gives your past unto me,
I'm going to let it shine,
to guide you safely on your way

Your way home...

His mother obviously shaped his life in profound ways, and he's hoping to preserve that memory and pass on that experience. This stanza also represents Maynard saying goodbye in his heart, if not his words.

Ohh, what are they gonna do when the lights go down
Without you to guide them all to Zion?
What are they gonna do when the rivers overrun
Other than tremble incessantly?

Without a figure of faith as powerful as his mother, Maynard doubts the believers would be able to overcome their fears.

High is the way
But our lives are upon the ground.
You are the light and the way
They'll only read about
I only pray heaven knows
When to lift you out

10000 days in the fire is long enough.
You're going home...

His mother spent 27 years in a stroke induced paralysis, but her devotion never wavered, to her son or to her beliefs. Her example is more powerful than anything written in the Bible, in Maynard's opinion. He hates to see her suffer and only wonders when her body will give out.

You're the only one who can hold your head up high,
Shake your fist at the gates saying,
"I have come home now!"

Fetch me the spirit, the son and the father,
Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended.

It's time now!
My time now!
Give me my
Give me my wings!..."

You are the light, the way, that they will only read about

His mother can know she deserves into heaven. Moreover, that her faith was worthy of a private audience with her Trinity. Maynard is telling her that if there is any believer on earth that truly deserves sainthood in the afterlife, it's her.

Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance
Burden of proof tossed upon non-believers.
You were my witness, my eyes, my evidence,
Judith Marie, unconditional one

Maynard gave up on beliefs at a fairly early age but always had to deal with being a minority forced to justify his lack of faith. His mother witnessed his transition and both stuck by her son but never wavered in her Christianity.

Daylight dims leaving cool flourescence.
Difficult to see you in this light.
Please forgive this bold suggestion:
Should you see your maker's face tonight
Look him in the eye
Look him in the eye and tell him,
"I never lived a lie, never took a life,
But surely saved one
Hallejullah,
It's time for you to bring me home."

If there is a Christian God, his mother will meet him. If she does, he suggests that she remind him of her virtue and sacrifice, and then request her just rewards.

[bloodydecember]

^^^ I find it ironic that this guy seems to think he knows what Maynard's purpose is, then turns around and criticizes everyone here for the same thing. All we've done is offered a logical conclusion to these lyrics, all facts considered. That seems to fall on deaf ears, or in this case blind eyes, to the illogical.

very ironic indeed. i hate hipocrites.

[threethirtythree]

. I have viewed this site for years now but only with the release of this album and more so this song i have been inspired to see what the rest of the world has derived from it. some of you still hate blindly but some of you are questioning the spirit and maybe even the change in spirit of our collective hero that is the point and reason for this song, to me anyway. my mother has been terminally ill since i was three and her condition continues to decline, its given both my sister and i a different perspective on life and death, as it tends to do when it stares at you daily. i love the conversation and the hope it gives me for humanity. this may be my only post, i'm not sure, but i just felt compelled to share. thanks for the abstract thoughts.

[WitlessLiar]

I know this may seem a little strange but it makes sense. I was wondering what the meaning of 10000 days was so I did a little research. I can tell from the lyrics that it is about his mom dying, but what is the significance of 10000 days. Well I found out that his mom had a stroke and was paralyized when Maynard was 11 he talks about this in the song jimmy "What was it like to see, The face of your own stability, Suddenly look away, Leaving you with the dead and hopeless?, Eleven and she was gone. Eleven is when we waved good-bye. Eleven is standing still,". With this in mind the song Judith is about how mad he was at god for doing this to his mom [1]. Now if you think of when his mom died, on June 18th 2003, and when maynard was 11 years old April 17, 1975 - April 16, 1976 do the math and it is right around 10000 days. So this song is about him accepting his mom's death and "10000 days in the fire is long enough, your going home" is saying that it is finally time for his mom to leave this hell on earth and to go where she belongs.


[1]
You're such an inspiration
For the ways
That I'll never ever choose to be
Oh so many ways for me to show you
How your savior has abandoned you

(FUCK Your God)
Your Lord, your Christ
(He did this)
Took all you had and
(Left you this way)
Still you pray, never stray, never
(Taste of the fruit)
Never thought to question why

It's not like you killed someone
It's not like you drove a hateful spear
Into his side
Praise the one who left you
Broken down and paralyzed
He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...

Oh so many ways
For me to show you
How your dogma has abandoned you

(Pray)
To your Christ, to your God
(Never taste of the fruit)
Never stray, never break, never
(Choke on a lie)
Even though he's the one who
(Did this to you)
You never thought to question why

It's not like you killed someone
It's not like you drove a spiteful spear
Into his side
Talk to Jesus Christ
As if he knows the reasons why
He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...

Where I certainly loved the Jimmy/Judith explanation (after all of my reading into it I didn't know that until now), I don't want to steal your thunder or piss on your parade but that's been on wikipedia for weeks.

But I never would have known that if I didn't go there. So really, congrats :)

[toolmaul]

ok i've gotten jumped on for mentioning this in other thread but I'll try it here too, anyone else think that maynard might not have just written 3 songs about his mom, how about pushit, she pushes her religion on him, he fights back, is angry says horrible things, writes cruel songs, but "remember i will always love you, as I claw your fucking throat away"
Then The Patient, about reconciling and the pain that you go through when you reconcile after a nasty break, the schism, about the act of reconciliation.
And finally Reflection, about accepting death, and that it's going to happen and it might not be a bad thing.
These along with jimmy, and Judith, and Wings.
Remember this is an opinion section, no one can have a right or wrong OPINION

[win]

LOL ARE YOU SERIOUS? You're kidding right? The title is fucking JUDITH, it doesn't get much clearer that that. Not to mention Fuck your GOD, your LORD, your CHRIST, he did this! I hope you're kidding and not seriously that stupid!

In all fairness Judith's meaning first of all isn't that obvious. For a year or so before i knew who Maynard mother was (which is a scary concept that we are all talking about his mother online... I wonder how he feels... then again he put it out...) I thought it was some obcure biblical reference relating to christ. Song's like Judith show Maynard's unbelievable ability to make messages allegorical and hold more than one meaning. For example before knowing MJK's mother's story
"You're such an inspiration for the ways
That I'll never ever choose to be
Oh so many ways for me to show you
How the savior has abandoned you
Fuck your God"
Makes perfect sense understood as MJK adress Jesus as a person who thinks they are a prophet in a world that, unknown to him, doesn't have a god. Much like Eulogy.

I think it is amazing how MJK can do this with so many of his references and I don't think it is just to 'fuck with people' as some people in some threads have mocked. Rather I think it is to show a connection between different themes, emotions, and types of thinking. I think of them much more as unbelievable literary devices.

MJK is a mastermind in so many ways...

[bigwood303]

How about this for a little different take on 10,000 days, think of it as a bit of a juxtoposition, a duality of sorts as there appears to be in everything else that Tool does. Tool are like onions, many layers... the math may or may not be exact with what I'm going to throw out at you, but work with it. I'm sure someone out there with a pocket protector will either corroborate me or throw me under the bus.

MJK just had his 42nd birhday, give or take a number of days. A long time ago (or not so long ago) Tool released their E.P., Opiate in 1992 (14 years ago) depending on the month. By my calculation, give or take a few days for leap years. He was alive almost 10K days until their release date.

Actually because I've done the math. He was born on April 17, 1964. Opiate was released on March 10, 1992. 10,189 days from his date of birth until their first release. However, we can bring it in a little closer. As we all know or should know. He was only in LA playing with the guys a few months before they landed their first deal, which would narrow in a lot closer on 10K days.

Just another way of looking at it....

[win]

How about this for a little different take on 10,000 days, think of it as a bit of a juxtoposition, a duality of sorts as there appears to be in everything else that Tool does. Tool are like onions, many layers... the math may or may not be exact with what I'm going to throw out at you, but work with it. I'm sure someone out there with a pocket protector will either corroborate me or throw me under the bus.

MJK just had his 42nd birhday, give or take a number of days. A long time ago (or not so long ago) Tool released their E.P., Opiate in 1992 (14 years ago) depending on the month. By my calculation, give or take a few days for leap years. He was alive almost 10K days until their release date.

Actually because I've done the math. He was born on April 17, 1964. Opiate was released on March 10, 1992. 10,189 days from his date of birth until their first release. However, we can bring it in a little closer. As we all know or should know. He was only in LA playing with the guys a few months before they landed their first deal, which would narrow in a lot closer on 10K days.

Just another way of looking at it....


with the references to marie and the lack of explanation of why those 10,000 days would be seen by him as in metaphorical fire I am sticking with the judith paralysis interpretation. BUT this is very interesting and I would be curious to see if there is any double meaning in the song- MJK often alludes to more than one thing in a reference. Kuddos for good original thought

[StereoScopicLenses]

...Opiate was released on March 10, 1992. 10,189 days from his date of birth until their first release. However, we can bring it in a little closer. As we all know or should know. He was only in LA playing with the guys a few months before they landed their first deal, which would narrow in a lot closer on 10K days.

Just another way of looking at it....


ITS NOT THAT HARD TO FIGURE OUT... you are all trying to put pieces of a puzzle together that don't fit. "10,000 days in the fire is long enough...." 10,000 days is the 27 years that Judith Marie was suffering and dying, before she ("pillar of faith") had ascended (passed away). I thought that was obvious to everyone. SHIT I JUST REALIZED THE VERY FIRST POST HERE ON PAGE ONE IS CORRECT... JUST LOOK AT THAT ONE

[bigwood303]

Let me reference my first paragraph,

"How about this for a little different take on 10,000 days, think of it as a bit of a juxtoposition, a duality of sorts as there appears to be in everything else that Tool does. Tool are like onions, many layers... the math may or may not be exact with what I'm going to throw out at you, but work with it. I'm sure someone out there with a pocket protector will either corroborate me or throw me under the bus."

I never said that I didn't agree with the other interpretations, nor did I say they were a bunch of b.s. I just said that this is another interesting way of looking at it, Tool always has subtle undertones and multiple meanings- take it for that... Be it correct or just pure coincidence, the math does work. I will acknowledge that is is quite a stretch and other than it adds up mathematically, it doesn't have much validity otherwise.

[bigwood303]

Oh yeah Stereoscopic lenses, before you went and broke down in tears and started blowing snot bubbles over my slightly different way of approaching it, you should have paid a little more attention to my subtlety of saying it was just another way of looking at it. It probably didn't warrant my initial response, but generally I take the average Tool fan as someone who can read between the lines.

-A smart man and a stupid ignorant man are arguing. Every one that is close and can hear what they are saying know who the smart man is. Everyone standing away and can't hear a thing but know that the two are arguing, can't tell which is the stupid and ignorant and who is the smart one...-

[iuguolo]

no, I think he means SHE saved his life.

with cristians saved normally means converted, get my drift.

[win]

ITS NOT THAT HARD TO FIGURE OUT... you are all trying to put pieces of a puzzle together that don't fit. "10,000 days in the fire is long enough...." 10,000 days is the 27 years that Judith Marie was suffering and dying, before she ("pillar of faith") had ascended (passed away). I thought that was obvious to everyone. SHIT I JUST REALIZED THE VERY FIRST POST HERE ON PAGE ONE IS CORRECT... JUST LOOK AT THAT ONE

no need for condescension. I think plenty of us got it. we were mostly talking about other things that came off of the discussion. further more there is no real need to be condescending even if everyone else didn't get it. a lot of people here don't spend forever reading about tool or even if they are just stupid and don't get the 'obvious' as you called it- attitude not necessary man

[peolesdru]

oh, my mistake.. i was doing it in a hurry.. averaging out the leap years should be more like 365x3 + 366 divided by 4.. so you're right it would be 365.25.. i just added 365+366 and divded by 2.

A year is 365.242375 days.

In actuality the extra day every four years adds a bit too much, so in any year divisible by 100, they don't do the extra day, unless the year is divisible by 400 - which recoups the 3 extra days that occur over 400 years. A year is 365.2422 days. So in 1700, 1800 and 1900 there was no leap day, but recently in 2000 there was. Multiply 365.25 by 400 and subtract from it 365.2422 times 400 and you get 3 extra days.

[stezra]

I was thinking maybe his "bold suggestion" was "fuck your god" from judith... since that was harsh now that she's dead. But I guess if that colon is there that means "If you should meet..." is the bold suggestion. I'll be interested to see if there's official lyrics with a colon there eventually.

[bogsnarth]

A year is 365.242375 days.

In actuality the extra day every four years adds a bit too much, so in any year divisible by 100, they don't do the extra day, unless the year is divisible by 400 - which recoups the 3 extra days that occur over 400 years. A year is 365.2422 days. So in 1700, 1800 and 1900 there was no leap day, but recently in 2000 there was. Multiply 365.25 by 400 and subtract from it 365.2422 times 400 and you get 3 extra days.
ok thanks for the pedantry, but does it change what i said?

:P

[bloodydecember]

ok i've gotten jumped on for mentioning this in other thread but I'll try it here too, anyone else think that maynard might not have just written 3 songs about his mom, how about pushit, she pushes her religion on him, he fights back, is angry says horrible things, writes cruel songs, but "remember i will always love you, as I claw your fucking throat away"
Then The Patient, about reconciling and the pain that you go through when you reconcile after a nasty break, the schism, about the act of reconciliation.
And finally Reflection, about accepting death, and that it's going to happen and it might not be a bad thing.
These along with jimmy, and Judith, and Wings.
Remember this is an opinion section, no one can have a right or wrong OPINION


I'm not trying to jump down your throat but your interp of reflection is totally off. Maynard says in an interview with a college professor from boston that the song is about the purity of information and how the human ego obscures that information and takes credit for it, much in the same way that the moon would take credit for the sun's light, even when it is only a reflector (as full and bright as I am, this light is not my own and a million light reflections pass over me). We are reflecors of knowlege and information that does not truly belong to us.

Kudos for the attempt though. I can see pushit and the patient in the argument but schism and reflection seem a little bit of a stretch to me.

[Disco]

t.s. eliot said, when formulating his ideas for critical analysis of poetry, that details about the personal life of the author are completely irrelevant to the interpretation/critique of the poem.. it doesn't matter if maynard's just fucking with the listener or if he's a High Adept (as one of my friends believes), the important thing is what the songs mean to the listener.

Yeah a little of the old "the birth of the audience comes at the death of the author" type of thing, the problem is that is not really perfectly accurate. Poets/Authors aren't likely to write about things they are not interested in so when it comes to interpteing their work of course you do not take everything literally, but looking at their life and trying to get an understanding often goes a long way into figuring out what is going on.

[Frogwoman]

The first time I saw A Perfect Circle before their first CD was released Maynard introduced Judith as "This song is about a whore" Is his mother a whore? Is god the whore?

[bloodydecember]

The first time I saw A Perfect Circle before their first CD was released Maynard introduced Judith as "This song is about a whore" Is his mother a whore? Is god the whore?

He also introduced the song "vacant," which later became "Passive" by saying "This song is called fuck brittany spears.......... in the ass"

He was probably fucked up.

[Redbeard]

10 000 divided by 365 = 27.3972603

and if you average the normal 365 day year with the 366 day leap year, you get an average year length of 365.5 which yeilds:

10 000 divided by 365.5 = 27.3597811

so yeah.. no matter how you slice it, 10000 days is no where near 36.5 years.

Sorry... actually when you consider leap years, the average length of the year works out to 365.25 days, plus about 15 minutes.

Otherwise, yes, totally, there is no way that 10000 days is 36 years and six months. It's much closer to 27 years 3 months.

[Th1rd Eye]

I know this may seem a little strange but it makes sense. I was wondering what the meaning of 10000 days was so I did a little research. I can tell from the lyrics that it is about his mom dying, but what is the significance of 10000 days. Well I found out that his mom had a stroke and was paralyized when Maynard was 11 he talks about this in the song jimmy "What was it like to see, The face of your own stability, Suddenly look away, Leaving you with the dead and hopeless?, Eleven and she was gone. Eleven is when we waved good-bye. Eleven is standing still,". With this in mind the song Judith is about how mad he was at god for doing this to his mom [1]. Now if you think of when his mom died, on June 18th 2003, and when maynard was 11 years old April 17, 1975 - April 16, 1976 do the math and it is right around 10000 days. So this song is about him accepting his mom's death and "10000 days in the fire is long enough, your going home" is saying that it is finally time for his mom to leave this hell on earth and to go where she belongs.


[1]
You're such an inspiration
For the ways
That I'll never ever choose to be
Oh so many ways for me to show you
How your savior has abandoned you

(FUCK Your God)
Your Lord, your Christ
(He did this)
Took all you had and
(Left you this way)
Still you pray, never stray, never
(Taste of the fruit)
Never thought to question why

It's not like you killed someone
It's not like you drove a hateful spear
Into his side
Praise the one who left you
Broken down and paralyzed
He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...

Oh so many ways
For me to show you
How your dogma has abandoned you

(Pray)
To your Christ, to your God
(Never taste of the fruit)
Never stray, never break, never
(Choke on a lie)
Even though he's the one who
(Did this to you)
You never thought to question why

It's not like you killed someone
It's not like you drove a spiteful spear
Into his side
Talk to Jesus Christ
As if he knows the reasons why
He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...

He did it all for you...


WOW - right in the face
I always thought Judith was about his lack of belief in Jesus

it makes sense, thank you for this

[Z3dsdead]

10,000days - 36.5years - "Bible clearly said that Jesus was resurrected 36.5 "Biblical" years after His birth"

You are a shining example of a failed education. A remedial math class would be useful. 10,000 days is 27.3 years. (ignoring the extended decimal places.)