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tollll12
04-21-2006, 12:07 AM
More and more I think the leak is fake. I think the tracks, other than Vicarious, that were release were b-sides that existed before they began production on the album that will be released on May 2nd. I have collected a lot of evidence and here it is in as concise a format as I can get it in order to most evident to least:

1. In the September 2005 newsletter Blair wrote: "Okay, first there was the decoy record just to confound all those would-be bootleggers out there. This took, oh, about a year, just because the band members wanted it to sound pretty close to the real thing (so as to be believable), along with equally believable art design." Read it for yourself http://www.toolband.com/news/letter/2005_09.php

2. Here is a clip from a 2002 show that you can clearly hear the intro to Wings to Marie http://download.yousendit.com/D2F68E5C3AAE87EE -- from this it's evident that at least one track has existed for quite a while.

3. Listen to Vicarious (which I think is a legit track from the new album), listen to the drum that sounds like an alarm at about 40 seconds into the song. It's an electronic drum right? So what, Danny has lots of them. Well what is special about this drum is that it's his new drum, he didn't have it on any of the previous albums. It was made exlusively for him (other people can now buy it). The difference between this and his other drums is that it can be configured to make a louder sound the harder you hit it. That is why he is able to make that alarm sound gradually grow louder. On his other electronic drums it doesn't matter how hard you hit them, they make the same sound. Now, you say, so what? Well go to the website for the drum (http://synesthesiacorp.com/home.html) and click "endorsees". You will see a picture of Danny and a line that says "listen for Mandalas [the name of the drum] all over Tool's upcoming release 10,000 days." well I have listend all over 10,000 days, and guess what? Vicarious is the only song where this drum appears. There are spots with other electonic sounds, but nothing he hasn't done before - nothing like the alarm sound on Vicarious. Why would Danny work with this company to design a drum that he only uses in one song? Why does the site say "look for it all over 10,000 days" when it's in only one song? Because these leaked songs existed before Danny had the drum.

4. Listen to The Pot. Get past the begining where Maynard sounds like Madonna. Now listen to his voice. That voice is what his voice sounded like 10 years ago - it does not sound like that anymore because he has gotten older. Listen to the base. That is Paul D'Amour not Justin Chancellor. Listen to how hard it is. Listen to how he slaps it. Justin doesn't play like that. Listen to a few songs on Undertow and then a few on Lateralus (or just listen to Vicarious) there is a big difference in the way the base guitar is played on both of those albums (don't listen to AEnima - both Justin and Paul played on it). The difference in style in the way the base is played in The Pot and Vicarious is striking. It's obvious that The Pot has existed for a long time.

6. This reason is weak since I don't have a source, but I remember reading an interview in drummer's world or something with Danny Carey, and he mentioned that they had enough material left over from Lateralus to make another album.

5. - This one is notedly weak, and people disagree with me on it, and that's fine, but I think it's valid.... The lyrics suck. Perhaps suck is the wrong word. I think Rosetta Stoned is fucking hilarious, but it's more along the lines of Maynard's Dick, which was a hidden track. I don't think Tool would ever release something that non-sensical - ditto on The Pot. As for Wings for Marie and 10,000 Days, I know the song is about his mother, but the lyrics are way to christian for me - they are from the guy who wrote "Fuck your God, your lord, your Christ.", "praise the one who left you broken down and paralized, he did it all for you","deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow", "you showed us you weren't affraid to die, well so long." etc. etc. It seems odd now that we get, "i have come home now fetch me the spirit the son, and the father tell them their pillar of faith has ascended it's time now, my time now
give me my, give me my, wings" I know it's about his mom - but he did write the song Judith, which made me blush when I found out that was his mom's name... maybe he felt bad after she died.

Well, that's what I've got. Honestly I was quite dissapointed when I heard this album the first time. I read an interview with either Justin or Adam that said they wanted to try something different on this album, perhaps make it into the next Wall. And he said that they were the only band out now that could do that. He is right, they are the only band that could do something that monumental, and this leaked album is not it. After I had put this evidence together and convinced myself that this album wasn't real, I started to enjoy the songs. I am happy that Tool has given it's eager fans something to listen to. And I am doubly excited that we get the real deal on may 2nd.

What do you all think... let the name calling commence.

McRoggles
04-21-2006, 12:12 AM
I don't agree on all accounts.

TuralyonW3
04-21-2006, 12:16 AM
That's Justin playing during the pot

tollll12
04-21-2006, 12:19 AM
You are hearing his tabla, he started using that during the AEnima tour, and used it quite a bit on Lateralus. It is a traditional indian drum (indian dot, not indian feather), and is by no means electronic.

tollll12
04-21-2006, 12:22 AM
Oh ok, I see what you are talking about on intension. Those sounds could be produced by his regular synth drumbs.

Echo Flanger
04-21-2006, 12:23 AM
1. In the September 2005 newsletter Blair wrote: "Okay, first there was the decoy record just to confound all those would-be bootleggers out there. This took, oh, about a year, just because the band members wanted it to sound pretty close to the real thing (so as to be believable), along with equally believable art design." Read it for yourself http://www.toolband.com/news/letter/2005_09.php

Yes, The newsletters were always really serious and all...

2. Here is a clip from a 2002 show that you can clearly hear the intro to Wings to Marie http://download.yousendit.com/D2F68E5C3AAE87EE -- from this it's evident that at least one track has existed for quite a while.

I just posted this in another thread. What if they wrote that riff just after Lateralus came out and started to jam on it at shows, and then recorded it? Why can't they do that? They don't need to record a riff to play it live.

3. Listen to Vicarious (which I think is a legit track from the new album), listen to the drum that sounds like an alarm at about 40 seconds into the song. It's an electronic drum right? So what, Danny has lots of them. Well what is special about this drum is that it's his new drum, he didn't have it on any of the previous albums. It was made exlusively for him (other people can now buy it). The difference between this and his other drums is that it can be configured to make a louder sound the harder you hit it.

What, dynamic drum triggers haven't been out before this? Come on!


4. Listen to The Pot. Listen to the base. That is Paul D'Amour not Justin Chancellor.

To me it sounded like Justin.

6. This reason is weak since I don't have a source, but I remember reading an interview in drummer's world or something with Danny Carey, and he mentioned that they had enough material left over from Lateralus to make another album.

Which doesn't prove anything...even though they would have re-recorded old riffs, that doesn't prove the leak is a hoax. As an example, Slipknot reused two songs from their 1996 album Mate Feed Kill Repeat on Iowa, 2001. Kurt Cobain had written half of In Utero (1993) before the year 1992.

I don't know what to think. I haven't listened to the album in its fullness because I've been in a great hurry lately, but I just don't believe all the arguements people use.

tollll12
04-21-2006, 12:26 AM
Listen to Sober and switch quick to The Pot - it's the same base

Drozz
04-21-2006, 12:28 AM
What the hell is a "base guitar"?

Oberon
04-21-2006, 12:30 AM
its spelled bass dude.



Anyway, i want to believe. I WANT TO BELIEVE.

tollll12
04-21-2006, 12:30 AM
sorry bass... love the name calling - am I a retard too?

Drozz
04-21-2006, 12:31 AM
Name calling?

Drozz
04-21-2006, 12:40 AM
ok did I miss something here?

Oberon
04-21-2006, 01:00 AM
Drozz, seriously, keep it civil, this is a community.

Drozz
04-21-2006, 01:02 AM
You people are freaking me out

Drozz
04-21-2006, 01:04 AM
I don't know how to read

Drozz
04-21-2006, 01:07 AM
I have a dog that reads my thoughts and types what I think

Oberon
04-21-2006, 01:10 AM
Your dog should've known better than to post such an ad hominem

Vicenza
04-21-2006, 01:33 AM
i am so down with this theory. the first thing that hit me, aside from the whole mish mesh of music on one album (which is so drastic it would be the first ever that i can recall for a band of Tool's stature) is how Maynard's voice get's ridiculously HIGH (no pun intended) on The Pot. I almost went to look for my Undertow CD to see if I'd missed that track cause' it sounds, voice, drum, and especially, yes, BASS (not base) wise, like it fell from that album.

Look, some of these songs are pretty good (read: Jambi, The Pot) but to me that only shows how incredible these guys are at creating music, where even on the outakes they can kick absolute ass. Secondly, to all those offended at this theory because so many songs seem to be about Maynard's mother....i say, come on. If this album proves to be a decoy, it doesn't denigrate the inherent quality or purpose of any of the songs. If they rock, they rock, and Tool wanted us to have them.

So yes, ultimately, they'll decide what gets put out or not at what time. To me, it makes perfect sense to put out some good (not all great) older, b-side tracks to keep the fanboys busy for a couple of weeks, and then, at a later date, come out with the real (recent) tracks they've worked so hard to bring us. This way they can protect their songs from being stolen on the internet pre-release as most albums are nowadays unfortunately.

There are some good tracks to enjoy on this album, I won't disagree there. But there seems to be something missing. So I cannot wait to be proven right or wrong on May 2nd, as long as I can be certain of what's in front of us.

fault
04-21-2006, 01:50 AM
There are some good tracks to enjoy on this album, I won't disagree there. But there seems to be something missing. So I cannot wait to be proven right or wrong on May 2nd, as long as I can be certain of what's in front of us.

Good post mate. I echo your feelings. Fingers crossed and stuff.

Vianney
04-21-2006, 02:27 AM
4. Listen to The Pot. Get past the begining where Maynard sounds like Madonna. Now listen to his voice. That voice is what his voice sounded like 10 years ago - it does not sound like that anymore because he has gotten older. Listen to the base. That is Paul D'Amour not Justin Chancellor. Listen to how hard it is. Listen to how he slaps it. Justin doesn't play like that. Listen to a few songs on Undertow and then a few on Lateralus (or just listen to Vicarious) there is a big difference in the way the base guitar is played on both of those albums (don't listen to AEnima - both Justin and Paul played on it). The difference in style in the way the base is played in The Pot and Vicarious is striking. It's obvious that The Pot has existed for a long time..

I'd have to disagree here. The style of the song is very similar to their earlier work, and MAY have been written long ago, but this The Pot was certainly recorded recently. The quality of the track makes that clear. Listen to the tracks from Undertow, or even Aenima, and how they were recorded - The Pot is much more crisper quality, and sounds to me like it was recorded very recently.

your line about maynard soundling like madonna made me loller

neurosis79
04-21-2006, 02:35 AM
I'd have to disagree here. The style of the song is very similar to their earlier work, and MAY have been written long ago, but this The Pot was certainly recorded recently. The quality of the track makes that clear. Listen to the tracks from Undertown, or even Aenima, and how they were recorded - The Pot is much more crisper quality, and sounds to me like it was recorded very recently.

your line about maynard soundling like madonna made me loller

I totally agree on the sound quality. And Maynards voice is pitched. And he really didnt sing that great on Opiate/Undertow. Not this good.

Vianney
04-21-2006, 02:42 AM
Another thing you might consider adding to the list is about Adam's guitar solos. From all the reviews and interviews, I practically got the impression he was playing blues scales, bending strings, etc. But from the solos on the leak, they sound no different from any other guitar solo he's done in the past

I know Maynard is getting older, but his vocals on the leak seem to be rather lower pitched than previous albums - which, say this leak is not intended to be Tools new masterpeice, but something like a bsides, leftovers, kind of album, perhaps he saved his voice for the real album.

All and all, I am set either way. The leak is certainly growing on me with every listen, and there are parts i'm in love with. At the same time, something seems missing, and the songs at parts seem too redundant, or predictable, as if they wrote it in twenty mintues. Being the amazing musicians that they are, I wouldn't put something like this past them - to make a decoy, that sounds believable.

I would openly welcome another album on top of this one

DaMa
04-21-2006, 03:05 AM
I checked out that mandala site and i really miss something like that on the leaked album now. It seems you can do loads of amazing things with it and i cant hear that on the leak. Anyone?

henri_ds
04-21-2006, 03:53 AM
Point 3 is completely wrong. You can hear his mandalas on Intension and Right in Two a LOT.

perhan
04-21-2006, 04:01 AM
to me a lot of songs do sound different one from another, speaking of recording, mix, mastering, the overall sound...the overall production is damn weird and i really feel that some of the songs date from different years/album sessions

Vicenza
04-21-2006, 07:11 AM
absolutely. on most albums you normally don't wonder when and in what year each song was probably written. With pretty much every track here, the production values jump so violently from one place to the next that you could very reasonably argue either way, and that's unusual for a "new" album.

I'd have to disagree here. The style of the song is very similar to their earlier work, and MAY have been written long ago, but this The Pot was certainly recorded recently. The quality of the track makes that clear. Listen to the tracks from Undertow, or even Aenima, and how they were recorded - The Pot is much more crisper quality, and sounds to me like it was recorded very recently.

well, an older track can easily be remastered to sound sharp, like it was recorded recently. heck, that's the whole point of remastering. and, even if it was recorded recently, those sound like old Maynard vocals, which could have been easily added while putting this album together.

Rosette feasted
04-21-2006, 07:21 AM
I wish so much that tolll12 is right, but I'm 99% sure that he isn't :(

DaMa
04-21-2006, 07:25 AM
Point 3 is completely wrong. You can hear his mandalas on Intension and Right in Two a LOT.

Then he didnt get the maximum out of them on the album. Those effects off video 4 are amazing, in Right in Two it just sounds he improoved with the percussions he already used WAY before. I am not a supporter of the decoy theory, but he definitely should've used the mandala in more variety on the album...

Descencia
04-21-2006, 07:32 AM
The Pot sounds like it is from the sessions for Opiate. Very distinctly so. It would have blended perfectly on it.

henri_ds
04-21-2006, 07:32 AM
Well...i agree, in a way...but you know, this is just the begining. I mean that in a live setting and in future albums i'm sure he will use them more, because he will have learned to make a better use of them, and get more things out of them.

DaMa
04-21-2006, 07:48 AM
Well...i agree, in a way...but you know, this is just the begining. I mean that in a live setting and in future albums i'm sure he will use them more, because he will have learned to make a better use of them, and get more things out of them.

Oh, we're neighboors ;-)

so is the guy playing the mandala on that site Danny? I just want to know.

ObviousParadox
04-21-2006, 09:08 AM
as for point two-

after undertow, before aenima was finished and released they played stinkfist, h, and jimmy at "undertow" shows. look at any bootlegs. how is that a fucking point at all? they have always experimented with works in progress during their live shows.

tollll12
04-21-2006, 09:55 AM
Yeah you really need to go to the Mandala site and watch the videos of the drum to see what it can do. The noises in Intension are definately not from that drum, or if they are, Danny wasted a grand to make noises his other drums can already make. If you don't believe me, go to dannycarey.org and listen to his kit there (click technology -> present). It only has the old drums, and they make some pretty weird - non-mandala like- noises. - I don't know who is playing the drum in that video on the mandala site. It's probably just a dude that works for the company.

The latest theory I have heard (from alt.music.tool where I posted this theory as well) is that the new album is a double album with one disc new stuff (which we haven't heard) and the other disc being b-sides (the leaked stuff). It sound credible to me. I know that Tool has a 3 album contract with Volcano. Along with Lateralus, releasing a two disc album could fulfill that obligation? I obviously don't know the details of the contract, but I think that theory has some bearing.

Dr. Strangefist
04-21-2006, 10:26 AM
sorry bass... love the name calling - am I a retard too?

yeah, along with anyone else who believes all this bullshit

lachrymoIogy
04-21-2006, 10:52 AM
im not going to comment on the whole conspiracy theory, exceot ti say i hope it's right for one reason alone. if it is, we get more new tool. that simple. you should try and enjoy what we have now, and go buy the new album when it comes out.

ryzur
04-21-2006, 11:10 AM
My biggest point I think would be that in the Guitar World interview, Adam explicitly mentions how Tool is different from other bands. "Our records don't sound like other people's records where they release them a year apart and they end up sounding like a bad cover band version of themselves,". HELLO! The leaked album has rehashed Tool riffs all over the place. To me it sounds EXACTLY like a poor version of themselves. If he said this and the leaked version is the real album, he must be some kind of complete moron.

Dr. Strangefist
04-21-2006, 11:38 AM
My biggest point I think would be that in the Guitar World interview, Adam explicitly mentions how Tool is different from other bands. "Our records don't sound like other people's records where they release them a year apart and they end up sounding like a bad cover band version of themselves,". HELLO! The leaked album has rehashed Tool riffs all over the place. To me it sounds EXACTLY like a poor version of themselves. If he said this and the leaked version is the real album, he must be some kind of complete moron.

except that's just your own stupid opinion. It's not a fact that the new album sounds like a poor version of Tool, and it in no way proves either than Adam is a moron or that the leak is fake.

themayanlion
04-21-2006, 11:52 AM
the only thing i have to say about this is regarding the christian quality of the lyrics, and it seems like no one here knows how to read or can think for themselves.

it is pretty obvious he is speaking for his mother in the song, not about himself as far as christian beliefs. i mean christ "what have i done to be son to an angel", "Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance"...he still says it's not his thing. and the whole "fetch me the spirit, the son, and the father" bit is right AFTER he says "you are the only one who can stand at the gates and say..."

i mean seriously, i didn't think for a second he became or implied any conversion to christianity, he is just saying his mother deserves whatever she believed in for what she had to go through, and that he's burning in hell with the rest but heopful his mother will get what she wanted.

i mean seriously, all talk about decoys and crap aside, there's no excuse to take leave of your senses.

sifted
04-21-2006, 11:55 AM
the only thing i have to say about this is regarding the christian quality of the lyrics, and it seems like no one here knows how to read or can think for themselves.

it is pretty obvious he is speaking for his mother in the song, not about himself as far as christian beliefs. i mean christ "what have i done to be son to an angel", "Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance"...he still says it's not his thing. and the whole "fetch me the spirit, the son, and the father" bit is right AFTER he says "you are the only one who can stand at the gates and say..."

i mean seriously, i didn't think for a second he became or implied any conversion to christianity, he is just saying his mother deserves whatever she believed in for what she had to go through, and that he's burning in hell with the rest but heopful his mother will get what she wanted.

i mean seriously, all talk about decoys and crap aside, there's no excuse to take leave of your senses.

completely agree. it bugs me so much when people claim he's somehow found 'the light' when he clearly isn't speaking in the first person point of view in wings pt 2.

Dr. Strangefist
04-21-2006, 11:56 AM
the only thing i have to say about this is regarding the christian quality of the lyrics, and it seems like no one here knows how to read or can think for themselves.

it is pretty obvious he is speaking for his mother in the song, not about himself as far as christian beliefs. i mean christ "what have i done to be son to an angel", "Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance"...he still says it's not his thing. and the whole "fetch me the spirit, the son, and the father" bit is right AFTER he says "you are the only one who can stand at the gates and say..."

i mean seriously, i didn't think for a second he became or implied any conversion to christianity, he is just saying his mother deserves whatever she believed in for what she had to go through, and that he's burning in hell with the rest but heopful his mother will get what she wanted.

i mean seriously, all talk about decoys and crap aside, there's no excuse to take leave of your senses.

Definitely. People need to work on their critical analysis and comprehension skills. This album has some of Maynard's most direct lyrics (and I don't mean that in a bad way) so I don't understand how people are coming up with some of these theories and interpretations.

question93
04-21-2006, 12:03 PM
This is like watching a car accident.

Just accept the fact that you don't like the album, it's not what you wanted, find a new band to like and move on. In my opinion, this album is Grammy material and then some. This is one damn fine piece of music, and I'd be willing to wager that the people that are up in arms saying this is a hoax and a decoy album don't have the first clue about audio production or what's involved with writing, recording, and producing an album.

researchtriangle
04-21-2006, 12:39 PM
I wish so much that tolll12 is right, but I'm 99% sure that he isn't :(

yup. me too on both counts.

waffel
04-21-2006, 12:57 PM
I don't agree on all accounts.

We know, you want to deepthroat 10,000 days. Stop telling everyone. Atleast the OP had something original to say, unlike you.

waffel
04-21-2006, 01:06 PM
except that's just your own stupid opinion. It's not a fact that the new album sounds like a poor version of Tool, and it in no way proves either than Adam is a moron or that the leak is fake.

lol. Now you're going to argue the similiarites to other albums. Its apparent in so many songs that you cant argue it.

Dr. Strangefist
04-21-2006, 01:17 PM
You're right, there is no subjectivity to this. You must be god. Either that or you are incapable of understanding what an "opinion" is.

waffel
04-21-2006, 02:04 PM
Sigh, just like the rest of the 06-ers

chodaboy
04-21-2006, 02:17 PM
I agree. It's a diversion.

From becoming too caught up in all this stuff, I have come to the following possibilities.

1. What was leaked is what we get. FINAL.
2. What was leaked is what we get on May 2. Then a few weeks later we get the real deal. Possible 2 discs.
3. 10,000 Days is released. But the track names as well as music is different.
4. We get the songs, but they are more polished and more Tool.

After listening to the leak, I have come to the realization that these all (with the exception of Vicarious), lack what separates Tool from other bands. Danny’s drums are almost non existent. They lack the dynamics he is known for. Justin just sounds like he is goofing off. Still cool though. Adam has taken a way different approach, which sometimes is too different, even for him. Maynards lyrics are “meh”. Wings is about the only one that has substance. The Rosetta Stoned lyrics are hilarious. The Pot is just a bunch of clichés.

Another thing that bothers me is the obvious use of their past songs. Most of the songs are just a mishmash of various riffs. The flow is off as well. They seem very straight forward. There is a complete lack of hooks, harmonies, and melodies except for Vicarious. Also, the saying “Work hard, stay in school. Listen to your mother, your father was right”, in Intension, is a goof. Then with the saying of “Timmay!”, in Right and Two, is funny. The whole album just feels like a big, “Gotcha”. There are probably many more “Easter Eggs” in this album.

Tool fans are die hard. If Tool shit on a stick and told us it was a popsicle, many of us would eat it right up. They know that too. There are parts of these songs that are freaking cool, fresh and new. However, even on Michael Jordan’s worst day he still had moments of greatness. What I’m saying is this is half ass effort on these songs, on purpose!

What bothers me the most about this is the Wings series. It written poetically, a true testament, of Maynard’s Talent. Why would a goof album have a song dedicated to his mother? Does any one know for sure that she was paralyzed for about 27 years? How did this rumor start? Where is the proof? I tried looking up some obituaries in Ohio. The only thing I could find was Judith Marie Garrison. http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_80004002=judith&_80004003=garrison&gsco=2%2CUnited+States&gspl=38%2COhio&_82000004=&_810002A3=&_810002A2=&_810002A1=&rg_83004031-int=&rs_83004031-int=0&_81004013=&_81004012=&_81004011=&_81004033=&_81004032=&_81004032=&_80100002=&_80100003=&_F0002717=&gskw=&prox=1&db=&ti=0&ti.si=0&gl=webobitgroup&gss=mp-webobitgroup&gst=&rank=1&so=3
One of the others said that she died because of complications of an aneurism. I know obituaries aren’t going to say if she was paralyzed, but actual evidence of the length would be helpful. I know Maynard says “Broken down and paralyzed” in Judith, but was she really paralyzed for “around 10,000 days”?

Another thing that bothers me is that my brother works for Best Buy. He said that his Best Buy has 350 copies of 10,000 Days coming to them. It gives the same UPC number that is going around. It also states that the CD count is ONE. However it states that the packaging itself is one half of an inch thick. A regular CD is a little over one quarter of an inch thick. This could be because of the Digipak though.

The audio leak gets me as well. Usually when CD’s leak there are many sources. Meaning multiple hacker/insider groups rip the same CD. It only seems that there is one source with this leak. An awful one at that. Who the hell rips music to mp4’s?

I am so worked up about this now. Sometimes I just wish I would have never got caught in this mind fuck.

Jason NHB
04-21-2006, 02:37 PM
Not that my opinion matters much... but a friend of mine, that listens to Tool all the time, said the following: "This sounds like a bunch of old tool songs? doenst soiund real almost". Never did he say it sucked or it was garbage or anything like that. He just thought something was off when he heard it. He doesnt visit tool forums everyday like we do and come up with crazy conspiracies. I really dont think thisi is the album and if it is then I guess you get what you get.

placidium
04-21-2006, 02:45 PM
1. blair mentions that this idea was discarded.
2. see: the mars volta.
3. i hear the drums.
4. the pot is too intense and too good to be from Undertow/Opiate days, and that is definitely justin's bass playing.
6. tool always have a lot of material left over.
5. the lyrics on Right in Two, Wings for Marie, Vicarious, and Jambi are easily Maynard's best.

Dr. Strangefist
04-21-2006, 02:51 PM
Sigh, just like the rest of the 06-ers

So then I guess "the 06-ers" must refer to the rest of the sane, rational, level-headed people who understand that art is subjective and don't try to rationalize their disapointment with crazy, parnoid conspiracy theories? Man, I'm really disapointed about being lumped in with that group

hahaha "the 06-ers"

Jayar
04-21-2006, 02:51 PM
1. Let's just fucking wait till May.
2. Uh...

Descencia
04-21-2006, 03:43 PM
The sound and production and overall style of Vicarious carried so much promise for the rest of what the album seemed like it would have been until the leak. That potential is not realized.

SomethingSpecial
04-21-2006, 06:48 PM
the only thing i have to say about this is regarding the christian quality of the lyrics, and it seems like no one here knows how to read or can think for themselves.

it is pretty obvious he is speaking for his mother in the song, not about himself as far as christian beliefs. i mean christ "what have i done to be son to an angel", "Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance"...he still says it's not his thing. and the whole "fetch me the spirit, the son, and the father" bit is right AFTER he says "you are the only one who can stand at the gates and say..."

i mean seriously, i didn't think for a second he became or implied any conversion to christianity, he is just saying his mother deserves whatever she believed in for what she had to go through, and that he's burning in hell with the rest but heopful his mother will get what she wanted.

i mean seriously, all talk about decoys and crap aside, there's no excuse to take leave of your senses.

I agree with this observation completly.

bonch
04-21-2006, 09:34 PM
absolutely. on most albums you normally don't wonder when and in what year each song was probably written. With pretty much every track here, the production values jump so violently from one place to the next that you could very reasonably argue either way, and that's unusual for a "new" album.

well, an older track can easily be remastered to sound sharp, like it was recorded recently. heck, that's the whole point of remastering. and, even if it was recorded recently, those sound like old Maynard vocals, which could have been easily added while putting this album together.

Man, there are a lot of people completely talking out their backsides like they know what they're talking about.

1.) The production values don't "jump violently from one place to the next" on this album. They're completely consistent, especially the guitars. I don't know where you're getting this from.

2.) The point of remastering is not to make a record sound like it was recorded recently, as that would require a total remix, and it still would not be "easily" done because older material is recorded with older gear and sounds a certain way. You can't just magically EQ something in 1996 and make it sound like it was recorded in 2006. Dave Mustaine's remixed Megadeth albums don't sound like 2004 recordings.

Albums are recorded with specific microphones, in a specific room, capturing specific room noise, on specific pre-amps, through specific compressors, etc. There are thousands of variables committed to tape that you can't just change on a whim, even with Pro Tools. A remaster evens out volume levels between tracks and brings in a little global compression and sometimes even some light EQ to make an album sound louder or fuller and give it a consistent sound.

You guys are really setting yourselves up for disappointment on May 2nd. You're not accepting that this is the new album, which is preventing you from sitting down, listening to it, and enjoying it.

bonch
04-21-2006, 09:42 PM
Does any one know for sure that she was paralyzed for about 27 years? How did this rumor start? Where is the proof?

Maynard's aMOTION commentary.

The audio leak gets me as well. Usually when CD’s leak there are many sources. Meaning multiple hacker/insider groups rip the same CD. It only seems that there is one source with this leak. An awful one at that. Who the hell rips music to mp4’s?

1.) One original source for an album leak is not unusual.
2.) Who rips to MP4s? Some worker who obviously grabbed the CD from the warehouse and ripped it in iTunes. This isn't the first time I've seen someone so damn confused that the leak wasn't in MP3 format, and I don't understand why that's such an important point toward the theory of a decoy album.

I am so worked up about this now. Sometimes I just wish I would have never got caught in this mind fuck.

You and me both.

chodaboy
04-21-2006, 11:23 PM
Maynard's aMOTION commentary.



1.) One original source for an album leak is not unusual.
2.) Who rips to MP4s? Some worker who obviously grabbed the CD from the warehouse and ripped it in iTunes. This isn't the first time I've seen someone so damn confused that the leak wasn't in MP3 format, and I don't understand why that's such an important point toward the theory of a decoy album.



You and me both.

If some employee, grabbed the CD and ripped it wouldn't he have scanned the album art in? Everything about this leak smells fishy.

waffel
04-21-2006, 11:44 PM
If this is a decoy I bet the members of tool are pretty happy. EVERYONE, I mean EVERYONE is talking about THIS set of songs. Hell, what if someone FOUND the real 10,000 days songs. Hows he going to get people to download his "other 10,000 days songs"?

I still think this set of songs will be released on may 2nd. However, I think Tool has NEW materials, not b sides, that they will release later.

UtUmNo1
04-21-2006, 11:57 PM
This thread has cred.

art
04-22-2006, 12:14 AM
Maynard was 27 when he joined tool, too. This has got to be the most entertaining conspiracy spawned in years. Its so much god damn fun reading all this shit. It's almost as beautiful as the leak itself. As far as i can tell from listenening to the leak, all the songs sound fuking awesome, the production might be raw, but its not shit. Its a sound charachteristic of these recordings. This is the most complex we've ever heard tool imo. And they've really tapped into that harmonic/ambient tool sound which i really dig ie patient intro, merkaba intro, opiate intro, pushit breakdown. If this isn't the real album, it certainly makes the past three albums a lot more full. Personally i think 10,000 days as we have it is ace. Crisp, tech, fun.

macfreak
04-22-2006, 12:26 AM
Lol...this is the album and it is amazing

The Let Down
04-22-2006, 12:40 AM
Yes, The newsletters were always really serious and all...

that would suggest that blair would have been lying.

i don't know about you but it seems evident blair has been truthful with everything he has posted leading up to the album...

something to think about

tollll12
04-22-2006, 12:41 AM
I don't think the album is "amazing" sounds like b-sides to me - worth listening to, but I like the other stuff better.

In other news - unless I am mistaken they have changed www.toolband.com. Some new graphic minus the music (until you click listen).

knot0fvipers
04-22-2006, 03:52 AM
absolutely. on most albums you normally don't wonder when and in what year each song was probably written. With pretty much every track here, the production values jump so violently from one place to the next that you could very reasonably argue either way, and that's unusual for a "new" album.



well, an older track can easily be remastered to sound sharp, like it was recorded recently. heck, that's the whole point of remastering. and, even if it was recorded recently, those sound like old Maynard vocals, which could have been easily added while putting this album together.

without question! I thought this conspiracy stuff was a load of crap yesterday morning but i remember when i first heard vicarious i was struck by how awesome the production is. danny's drum hits are crystal clear. Then you listen to the Pot(which style wise sounds like its 10 years old) and it sounds like an old recording hammered smooth with modern plugins. Its absurdly muddy. Vicarious is much louder than the other tracks, much fuller. Besides for maynards voice style wise sounding like its way old, listen to danny's drumming! A straight on the beat hat hit? Comeon...
1. Production is all over the place on the decoy. It makes no sense that we would get a leak that has one mastered song amazing production that also happens to be the single on the radio and the wrest unmastered to account for why the production on vicarious is so much better.
2. meshuggah influence? where on the leak is the meshuggah influence? Danny has said this is the most complex music he has ever made. where is it?
3. the leak doesnt flow togather very well. it sounds like a bunch of bsides thrown togather.
4. Watch the mandala video clips on the site, especially where you can do melodic hits depending on where you strike the head. Where the hell do you hear anything like that on the leak?

Listen to the end of vicarious, thats where these monsters are at chops wise. These songs on the leak are fantastic but the musicianship and especially the production does not sound like it was done in the past year on anything but vicarious.

Topher
04-22-2006, 11:36 AM
The 'alarm' that the original poster speaks of, is definately not new. Danny has been using it since at least 2002, perhaps even before. I have a bootleg DVD of the St. Paul, MN show from the Lateralus tour (2002) and the 'alarm' which you refer to is played several times just before they start Schism.

ObviousParadox
04-22-2006, 11:50 AM
2. see: TOOL.


fixed.

they always play songs that they're working on during tours. look at opiate to undertow. undertow to aenima. aenima to lateralus.

BlairLicksTaint
04-22-2006, 12:01 PM
I'd have to disagree here. The style of the song is very similar to their earlier work, and MAY have been written long ago, but this The Pot was certainly recorded recently. The quality of the track makes that clear. Listen to the tracks from Undertow, or even Aenima, and how they were recorded - The Pot is much more crisper quality, and sounds to me like it was recorded very recently.

your line about maynard soundling like madonna made me loller
I agree with you, also look at the playing. They just weren't that talented on undertow. I don't think Adam did many polyrythms on undertow like on the pot

perhan
04-22-2006, 12:01 PM
they said a lot of stuff recently that will make them mega retards if this is the real album

Alistair_Carson
04-22-2006, 12:01 PM
IT'S A LIE.

Think about it. The album leaks due to "advance copies being sent out".

My ass.

We would have pictures of every single page of the liner notes, the back of the case, the disc itself, all taken by different people. But we don't. We have about five pictures of the supposed stereoscope packaging. No disc, no additional pages of liner notes, just the digipak opened up. If they lied about advance copies, what gives these leaked songs any credibility towards the new album?

kholla
04-22-2006, 12:27 PM
Sorry if this has been mentioned somewhere else but..... One of radio stations in Denver has been playing at least 6 of the leaked tracks off 10,000 days. They are saying the "stole" the album just for us. I am not sure how this can be legal. It's a clear channel station, so it's not just some small station that has nothing to lose. Makes me think something else might be going on, but who knows. Any thoughts?

philipjfry
04-22-2006, 12:40 PM
has anyone tried taking one word from each song apart from 10000 days and leaving out vicarious you get
jam b for 10000 days the conjuring lost stoned intension in 3
dunno it means anything you can change it about a bit and get different results

Dr. Strangefist
04-22-2006, 12:49 PM
IT'S A LIE.

Think about it. The album leaks due to "advance copies being sent out".

My ass.

We would have pictures of every single page of the liner notes, the back of the case, the disc itself, all taken by different people. But we don't. We have about five pictures of the supposed stereoscope packaging. No disc, no additional pages of liner notes, just the digipak opened up. If they lied about advance copies, what gives these leaked songs any credibility towards the new album?


Promo copies rarely come in the full packaging. My dad gets them all the time from this guy at a local record show, they usually come in slip cases from the label. Sometimes they are even CD-R. Another weak argument based on uninformed speculation.

Dr. Strangefist
04-22-2006, 01:03 PM
has anyone tried taking one word from each song apart from 10000 days and leaving out vicarious you get
jam b for 10000 days the conjuring lost stoned intension in 3
dunno it means anything you can change it about a bit and get different results

what would it mean? where did you even get the idea for doing that, or think that it would have meaning? Why are you leaving out Vicarious? What made you choose the words that you did? Why use the entire title of 10,000 days and not, for example, just the number or the word days? Here's why: it's all completely arbitrary. We can't just pull shit out of nowhere and look for meaning, there has to be some sort of logic or reasoning behind it. As usual, speculation about anything regarding Tool is wild and out of control.

Parabolee
04-22-2006, 02:00 PM
Oh my god!!!

You guys are messing with my head!!

I honestly think that the leak is as good as Lateralus after about 7 listenings. And when I first started to read this thread I though the fake version believers were crazy.

But now I'm starting to think that you may be right.

And I certainly hope you are because that would mean we get 2 Tool albums!

But I am afraid that you are probably wrong, and if that is the case it will be VERY sad that many people thought that the new album was "a collection of B-sides". And that many of us listened to it thinking some better version was coming out soon.

But I truelly hope that this version is just one amazingly good fake and we get an even better album on the 2nd! That would be mind blowing. And probably the best stunt ever pulled on music fans!

Carpeljet
04-22-2006, 04:12 PM
hah, before i found a link to the whole downloaded album i tried to download rosetta stoned from a file sharing program and when it finished downloading i listened to the first minute or so and thought "dangit another fake" then i download the whole album and there's the same song again hah...good times

Hey It's Aaron
04-22-2006, 04:34 PM
For all the people that say on "The Pot" Paul is playing because it sounds like his old Bass knos nothing of basses.. Paul and Justin both used or use Music Man Basses that sound ver similar. But its Justin 's tone.. The Bass has his style written all over it.

magnolia
04-22-2006, 04:47 PM
Sigh, just like the rest of the 06-ers
... BAHHHHHHHHHHHHAHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAA

ghost_horse
04-22-2006, 05:22 PM
1. In the September 2005 newsletter Blair wrote: "Okay, first there was the decoy record just to confound all those would-be bootleggers out there. This took, oh, about a year, just because the band members wanted it to sound pretty close to the real thing (so as to be believable), along with equally believable art design." Read it for yourself http://www.toolband.com/news/letter/2005_09.php

.


If you don't understand Blair's dark since of humor by now you probably never will. Listen to what he says. There is no way Tool spent a year making an album that would fool a few people for a couple of weeks. Common since and Logic has not blessed you.

JE Mack
04-22-2006, 09:05 PM
You are really smart. Especially to recognize something you heard on a live album from four years ago. That was impressive. I look forward to hearing the new album.

schmeng
04-22-2006, 09:34 PM
Ive got a question: What would be the point in releasing a fake album with poorer quality songs just before the realease of a real album? It would mean that people who have already downloaded it would be less likely to go out and buy the real version because a)they are cunts; and b)they think it sucks. If the leaked version did prove to be a fake, by the time it is known to the general public the real album would be available to download anyway

Samadhi Junky
04-22-2006, 10:59 PM
Q: Why would the track titles be released months in advance?

A: 'Cause it's a total Red Herring.

Even still, I teared up while listening to the title track, driving in a thunderstorm.

Enlightenment on May 2nd...

egrue
04-22-2006, 11:01 PM
Ive got a question: What would be the point in releasing a fake album with poorer quality songs just before the realease of a real album? It would mean that people who have already downloaded it would be less likely to go out and buy the real version because a)they are cunts; and b)they think it sucks. If the leaked version did prove to be a fake, by the time it is known to the general public the real album would be available to download anyway

quoted for truth.

-=MT=-
04-23-2006, 12:39 AM
How about the fact that the previews match the songs? Do you think they traveled to other countries to host listening parties for a fake album? I'm sure they have better things to do with their time.

Rezbit
04-23-2006, 01:54 AM
I think someone's hyping himself up for a BIG disappointment come May. Is it so hard to believe 10,000 Days is the real deal?

Grimace
04-23-2006, 07:08 AM
good thread for the non believers...

i dont know if its been mentioned already, but i think the product placement in rosetta stoned could be another clue, sunkist and sudafed, and im sure iv heard a few more in there.

those familar with bill hicks and how he has inspired a lot of tools music, would also be familar with his outright contempt for artists selling out for corporate companies.. now not saying money changed hands for these brief mentions, but it does seem very strange for maynard to slip them in there..

Samadhi Junky
04-23-2006, 07:32 AM
Honestly, "10,000 Days" is hilarious! Not only the lyrical content, but also the circus surrounding it -- not to mention a horrible, piercing guitar sound during track 8 er 10.

It sounds like "The Wall" + "Animals" (both Pink Floyd) + unreleased leftover B-sides. There is no real central theme to glue the album together, other than the fact that it's funny... and that it's album 1 (or a prelude) in a 2 album set, 1 of which is due on May 2nd.

Seriously, look at the artwork and then listen to the bootlegged album. No connection.

"Timmay!"

They may top The Beatles with this trick...

grasmaaier
04-23-2006, 08:11 AM
I just can't believe that so many people don't believe it's real. really.

Masterangelbasher
04-23-2006, 08:56 AM
Is a double album so hard to imagine? I have a big problem with people pointing to danny's drums as a reason it's fake.......He has used them for the last three albums....

ArizonaBay
04-23-2006, 09:03 AM
Not that my opinion matters much... but a friend of mine, that listens to Tool all the time, said the following: "This sounds like a bunch of old tool songs? doenst soiund real almost". Never did he say it sucked or it was garbage or anything like that. He just thought something was off when he heard it. He doesnt visit tool forums everyday like we do and come up with crazy conspiracies. I really dont think thisi is the album and if it is then I guess you get what you get.

I had the same thing with one my friends, he has not heard any of the fake album stuff, and said "Is the real thing you think? Something sounds wrong. "

ArizonaBay
04-23-2006, 09:07 AM
good thread for the non believers...

i dont know if its been mentioned already, but i think the product placement in rosetta stoned could be another clue, sunkist and sudafed, and im sure iv heard a few more in there.

those familar with bill hicks and how he has inspired a lot of tools music, would also be familar with his outright contempt for artists selling out for corporate companies.. now not saying money changed hands for these brief mentions, but it does seem very strange for maynard to slip them in there..

Yeah and krispy kremes. Thats some good thinking

ZeroGlass
04-23-2006, 11:11 AM
I love this album so much i wish there was more of it. Why is the packaging steroscopic? We have to use our own two eyes to see the third image. We have to look for ourselves to find the answer and not rely on anothers vision.

We can even hold the answer in our own two hands without seeing it.

zet
04-23-2006, 11:28 AM
Ive got a question: What would be the point in releasing a fake album with poorer quality songs just before the realease of a real album? It would mean that people who have already downloaded it would be less likely to go out and buy the real version because a)they are cunts; and b)they think it sucks. If the leaked version did prove to be a fake, by the time it is known to the general public the real album would be available to download anyway

The point is to fuck around with all these "devotee's". Think, not follow.

The leak is not all fake, but its certainly not what will be released soon.

My opinion anyway,

Cheers,
z

tollll12
04-23-2006, 11:36 AM
Is a double album so hard to imagine? I have a big problem with people pointing to danny's drums as a reason it's fake.......He has used them for the last three albums....


It's not his drums per se, but a specific drum. He did not have the Mandala on the last three albums. That is why it is easy to tell that Vicarious is from the latest recording session - the use of the Mandala is obvious. It's definately absent from every other track on the leak however.

ZeroGlass
04-23-2006, 11:45 AM
Another thing i just picked up is that the end of Wings for Marie (PArt 1) where the bass is just slammed like two times, then theres that horrible gap that seems to take ages, if the song is suppposed to blend into 10000 Days (Part 2) , why cant i hear that bass rumbling when Part 2 starts, it just seems to cut off...

drone007
04-23-2006, 12:16 PM
It's not his drums per se, but a specific drum. He did not have the Mandala on the last three albums. That is why it is easy to tell that Vicarious is from the latest recording session - the use of the Mandala is obvious. It's definately absent from every other track on the leak however.


you don't think the mandala was used on Intension? i think it was...


imma laugh if there is a double cd but the new material is all tool cover songs or something and you guys have to be content with 10,000 Days leaked version being the new material.

abrack29
04-23-2006, 01:01 PM
It's not his drums per se, but a specific drum. He did not have the Mandala on the last three albums. That is why it is easy to tell that Vicarious is from the latest recording session - the use of the Mandala is obvious. It's definately absent from every other track on the leak however.

Wrong. He uses the mandala in Intension and Right in Two. Listen to Right in Two, about 50 seconds in, until 1:20. That's the mandala my friend.

Masterangelbasher
04-23-2006, 02:00 PM
That drum has been used on Aenema and Lateralus. Go listen. Go look at past magazine articles with danny talking about them. He has had them in at least one form or another for a long time. Like since before tool. He used them a little in aenema, and a lot in Lateralus. Anything you hear them do that sounds like a synth have been done on these drums. If I could peel my ears away from the new stuff I would be going back and referencing, but I can't. So there...

Dr. Strangefist
04-23-2006, 02:05 PM
that's not really correct. He's been using electronic drums for a long time, but these particular ones are new.

newrnewt
04-23-2006, 04:26 PM
Ive got a question: What would be the point in releasing a fake album with poorer quality songs just before the realease of a real album? It would mean that people who have already downloaded it would be less likely to go out and buy the real version because a)they are cunts; and b)they think it sucks. If the leaked version did prove to be a fake, by the time it is known to the general public the real album would be available to download anyway

(assuming the album is fake)
maybe tool dont give two shits for people who steal their music in the first place; if people who downloaded it dont like the album AND dont buy it because they think its shit, tool wont care because they have such contempt for ppl who attempted to steal the album.

magnolia
04-23-2006, 04:54 PM
The backpedalling is going to be hilarious! I can't wait until May 2nd. THis place is going to be so much fun.

tollll12
04-23-2006, 04:57 PM
Wrong. He uses the mandala in Intension and Right in Two. Listen to Right in Two, about 50 seconds in, until 1:20. That's the mandala my friend.


Well I am in a library studying right now, and I don't have any headphones so I can't listen. But, from what I remember about Intension, at around that time mark Danny starts using his tabla (similar spelling to Mandala, perhaps that is why you are confused). Later in Intension there are some really strange noises those are his simmons drums. There is also a long tabla solo in Right in Two, which sounds similar to the solo he plays in Push It on Salival. He has been using the tabla since Aenima, and it is not an electronic drum, but it does sound much different than the drums on a traditional drumset.

fendius
04-23-2006, 05:04 PM
More and more I think the leak is fake. I think the tracks, other than Vicarious, that were release were b-sides that existed before they began production on the album that will be released on May 2nd. I have collected a lot of evidence and here it is in as concise a format as I can get it in order to most evident to least:

1. In the September 2005 newsletter Blair wrote: "Okay, first there was the decoy record just to confound all those would-be bootleggers out there. This took, oh, about a year, just because the band members wanted it to sound pretty close to the real thing (so as to be believable), along with equally believable art design." Read it for yourself http://www.toolband.com/news/letter/2005_09.php

2. Here is a clip from a 2002 show that you can clearly hear the intro to Wings to Marie http://download.yousendit.com/D2F68E5C3AAE87EE -- from this it's evident that at least one track has existed for quite a while.

3. Listen to Vicarious (which I think is a legit track from the new album), listen to the drum that sounds like an alarm at about 40 seconds into the song. It's an electronic drum right? So what, Danny has lots of them. Well what is special about this drum is that it's his new drum, he didn't have it on any of the previous albums. It was made exlusively for him (other people can now buy it). The difference between this and his other drums is that it can be configured to make a louder sound the harder you hit it. That is why he is able to make that alarm sound gradually grow louder. On his other electronic drums it doesn't matter how hard you hit them, they make the same sound. Now, you say, so what? Well go to the website for the drum (http://synesthesiacorp.com/home.html) and click "endorsees". You will see a picture of Danny and a line that says "listen for Mandalas [the name of the drum] all over Tool's upcoming release 10,000 days." well I have listend all over 10,000 days, and guess what? Vicarious is the only song where this drum appears. There are spots with other electonic sounds, but nothing he hasn't done before - nothing like the alarm sound on Vicarious. Why would Danny work with this company to design a drum that he only uses in one song? Why does the site say "look for it all over 10,000 days" when it's in only one song? Because these leaked songs existed before Danny had the drum.

4. Listen to The Pot. Get past the begining where Maynard sounds like Madonna. Now listen to his voice. That voice is what his voice sounded like 10 years ago - it does not sound like that anymore because he has gotten older. Listen to the base. That is Paul D'Amour not Justin Chancellor. Listen to how hard it is. Listen to how he slaps it. Justin doesn't play like that. Listen to a few songs on Undertow and then a few on Lateralus (or just listen to Vicarious) there is a big difference in the way the base guitar is played on both of those albums (don't listen to AEnima - both Justin and Paul played on it). The difference in style in the way the base is played in The Pot and Vicarious is striking. It's obvious that The Pot has existed for a long time.

6. This reason is weak since I don't have a source, but I remember reading an interview in drummer's world or something with Danny Carey, and he mentioned that they had enough material left over from Lateralus to make another album.

5. - This one is notedly weak, and people disagree with me on it, and that's fine, but I think it's valid.... The lyrics suck. Perhaps suck is the wrong word. I think Rosetta Stoned is fucking hilarious, but it's more along the lines of Maynard's Dick, which was a hidden track. I don't think Tool would ever release something that non-sensical - ditto on The Pot. As for Wings for Marie and 10,000 Days, I know the song is about his mother, but the lyrics are way to christian for me - they are from the guy who wrote "Fuck your God, your lord, your Christ.", "praise the one who left you broken down and paralized, he did it all for you","deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow", "you showed us you weren't affraid to die, well so long." etc. etc. It seems odd now that we get, "i have come home now fetch me the spirit the son, and the father tell them their pillar of faith has ascended it's time now, my time now
give me my, give me my, wings" I know it's about his mom - but he did write the song Judith, which made me blush when I found out that was his mom's name... maybe he felt bad after she died.

Well, that's what I've got. Honestly I was quite dissapointed when I heard this album the first time. I read an interview with either Justin or Adam that said they wanted to try something different on this album, perhaps make it into the next Wall. And he said that they were the only band out now that could do that. He is right, they are the only band that could do something that monumental, and this leaked album is not it. After I had put this evidence together and convinced myself that this album wasn't real, I started to enjoy the songs. I am happy that Tool has given it's eager fans something to listen to. And I am doubly excited that we get the real deal on may 2nd.

What do you all think... let the name calling commence.




I like this new leak, and it is growing on me, but i couldn't have said it better, PEOPLE go with your gut on this, this is a decoy and if you love it good, but we are all fans of tool and I am 100% positive THEY would want us to question this...

cosmokramer
04-23-2006, 05:23 PM
ya know the more i read about the leak the happier i am i havent downloaded it. im not planning on it either. This way i will know what I hear the first time I listen to the new cd is really it. i wont have to get my hopes up for something that may or might not be coming...

Lustig
04-23-2006, 05:42 PM
Man... so I've been lurking on this forum for years but never registered or posted anything before... but this place is getting out of control.

First off, my opinion of 10000 days is that it's a pretty good album, but I'll agree it does not feel cohesive by any stretch of the imagination, at least not like we're used to with their previous works. Also, the amount of rehashed guitar rif***e is kind of questionable, but I've never found Adam Jones to EVER stray too far from his D to F to G chord progressions. Perhaps I just find that there's a little too much open D power chord chugging on this album... which can get a little fatiguing. Now, I think Vicarious is a great song, probably the best rockin' Tool song on the record, but it does borrow a little from Lateralus's Schism at the beginning and the end... particularly Jones' reusing of fast pentatonic hammer-ons....I love the vocals however....

Anyway... I digress. I guess since I've never posted here I have a lot of opinions on all things Tool that belong in dozens of different topics so I'll just say this:

I never questioned the authenticity of this album until I started reading the many threads providing "evidence" about a b-sides/rarities album. But the more I read, the more I think I'm letting my dissapointment in the overall album lead me to be seduced by these, quite frankly, improbable possibilities. Maybe in the end we will have to just accept that the band just wasn't necessarily as inspired and "on the same page" together this time around, resulting in the disjointedness of the theme/flow/originality of the album. Alright, I'm out for now... sorry for wasting your time.






but really.... Maynard does sound at least ten years younger on the Pot.........:)

lordofthemunkie
04-23-2006, 06:03 PM
i gotta say after reading a couple threads on this board....

you people are a riot.

last night before i read this site i did make a comment in the ways of, "wow this album has a very old school tool sound to it" but that doesnt necessarily mean its a fake.

my personal opinion--these songs kick ass. if this is the cd, excellent...i'm still going to buy it. if its not, even better. more new music

take the music for what it is...youre setting yourself up for major disappointment. these consipiracy theories are absurd..you kids have waaaaaaaaaay too much time on your hands. take a nap or something.

mike09
04-23-2006, 06:11 PM
good thread for the non believers...

i dont know if its been mentioned already, but i think the product placement in rosetta stoned could be another clue, sunkist and sudafed, and im sure iv heard a few more in there.

those familar with bill hicks and how he has inspired a lot of tools music, would also be familar with his outright contempt for artists selling out for corporate companies.. now not saying money changed hands for these brief mentions, but it does seem very strange for maynard to slip them in there..

That's a good point. I never noticed that. The plot thickens....

adigra
04-23-2006, 09:58 PM
I don't intend to argue with anyone nor will I respond to any flaming, because, frankly, I don't care enough. I have never posted on any Tool message boards and have found this one only because I was curious after something seemed a bit off to me while listening to the leaked album. I've been a big fan of the band since Opiate and have followed them ever since... So upon listening to 10000 days for the first time I was very surprised how much the bass had the "slap" sound on some songs of their pre-Justin days. Very much Undertow but with a "deeper" production. It didn't sound like Justin at all to me. But I discarded it thinking maybe he had just changed it up for some songs. But then, another thing that slowly crept up on me during repeated listenings was how simplistic the guitar work is on Jambi following the complexity of Vicarious, and how the drums just don't seem as powerful as on the past albums. So I kept spinning the album often for days letting it grow on me in hopes of understanding what it was that bothered me. I came to the conclusion that some of you seem to agree with, that while quite good, it doesn't sound like something Tool would take so long to write and record. I thought they just got a bit lazy and repeated old tricks to make the fans happy. But then, on a completely unrelated website, someone mentioned this rumour about the album being a decoy, and it instantly made sense. So I did a search in hopes of finding out more, and ended up here...

I have no idea one way or the other, but it does sound plausible just purely based on the fact that for Lateralus the band did have "leaked" songs which were just some crap songs given Lateralus names, and this would be that much further along the same lines, plus just my gut feeling about something being slightly off about the album not moving the game on for Tool.

Don't get me wrong, some of the songs I think are great, and after so many listenings of the album I think I've even convinced myself that the whole thing is great and if this the real thing I think I will be happy because I certanly don't think any of the songs are bad. But on the other hand I really do hope there is more to it all because not only would that mean more Tool music but would also be one of the better hoaxes and very much along the lines of what KLF would've done.

Anyhow, upon reading the original post in the thread the whole bass theory instantly rung true to me.

nconcklin
04-25-2006, 03:17 AM
Hey, even if it is a hoax that means we get two complete Tool albums in one year.

Ive got a question: What would be the point in releasing a fake album with poorer quality songs just before the realease of a real album? It would mean that people who have already downloaded it would be less likely to go out and buy the real version because a)they are cunts; and b)they think it sucks. If the leaked version did prove to be a fake, by the time it is known to the general public the real album would be available to download anyway

Perhaps to weed out the pseudofans?

indelible inc.
04-25-2006, 07:01 AM
Don't get me wrong, some of the songs I think are great, and after so many listenings of the album I think I've even convinced myself that the whole thing is great and if this the real thing I think I will be happy because I certanly don't think any of the songs are bad. But on the other hand I really do hope there is more to it all because not only would that mean more Tool music but would also be one of the better hoaxes and very much along the lines of what KLF would've done.

Anyhow, upon reading the original post in the thread the whole bass theory instantly rung true to me.


I fully agree with you. I'm in the exact same boat and for me this is a win/win situation. Hoax or not, I've new Tool playing in my earphones again. And I couldn't be happier.

TheSalaminizer
04-25-2006, 11:07 AM
Q: Why would the track titles be released months in advance?

A: 'Cause it's a total Red Herring.

They were released around the same time the artwork hit the printers. I guess the band assumed the tracklist would leak anyways, so just went ahead and released it. Fairly sensible if you ask me...

egrue
04-25-2006, 11:22 AM
i'd love to know what kabir thinks about all this hoax stuff...unless he's "in on it"

Noell
04-25-2006, 12:06 PM
I don't intend to argue with anyone nor will I respond to any flaming, because, frankly, I don't care enough. I have never posted on any Tool message boards and have found this one only because I was curious after something seemed a bit off to me while listening to the leaked album. I've been a big fan of the band since Opiate and have followed them ever since... So upon listening to 10000 days for the first time I was very surprised how much the bass had the "slap" sound on some songs of their pre-Justin days. Very much Undertow but with a "deeper" production. It didn't sound like Justin at all to me. But I discarded it thinking maybe he had just changed it up for some songs. But then, another thing that slowly crept up on me during repeated listenings was how simplistic the guitar work is on Jambi following the complexity of Vicarious, and how the drums just don't seem as powerful as on the past albums. So I kept spinning the album often for days letting it grow on me in hopes of understanding what it was that bothered me. I came to the conclusion that some of you seem to agree with, that while quite good, it doesn't sound like something Tool would take so long to write and record. I thought they just got a bit lazy and repeated old tricks to make the fans happy. But then, on a completely unrelated website, someone mentioned this rumour about the album being a decoy, and it instantly made sense. So I did a search in hopes of finding out more, and ended up here...

I have no idea one way or the other, but it does sound plausible just purely based on the fact that for Lateralus the band did have "leaked" songs which were just some crap songs given Lateralus names, and this would be that much further along the same lines, plus just my gut feeling about something being slightly off about the album not moving the game on for Tool.

Don't get me wrong, some of the songs I think are great, and after so many listenings of the album I think I've even convinced myself that the whole thing is great and if this the real thing I think I will be happy because I certanly don't think any of the songs are bad. But on the other hand I really do hope there is more to it all because not only would that mean more Tool music but would also be one of the better hoaxes and very much along the lines of what KLF would've done.

Anyhow, upon reading the original post in the thread the whole bass theory instantly rung true to me.

I agree with you. The album as it is now is great, but it does not feel as "epic" as I had expected. Some songs feel like some nice jamsessions (still very good), others feel like a joke, a bit ironic.. but that's what they said right.. "This is our blues record, were singing the blues!"

Anyway, im not really bothered.. just gonna wait it out 'till the 2nd of may (allthough reading all this is amusing)..

spiiiral
04-25-2006, 12:19 PM
2.) Who rips to MP4s? Some worker who obviously grabbed the CD from the warehouse and ripped it in iTunes. This isn't the first time I've seen someone so damn confused that the leak wasn't in MP3 format, and I don't understand why that's such an important point toward the theory of a decoy album.


when i upload a CD to iTunes its in MP3 format.

i know this because i upload songs from CDs to my computer via iTunes and then put them on my creative labs MP3 player..which doesnt support MP4 format, because it won't allow me to put any songs i've purchased on iTunes onto it.

the only MP4 music i've ever come across is music that i've downloaded directly from iTunes.

not that tool is even on iTunes.

but. uhm. if somebody did rip it in iTunes...it wouldn't still be in MP4 format.

or..at least not on my laptop.

thoughts?

magnolia
04-25-2006, 02:23 PM
when i upload a CD to iTunes its in MP3 format.

i know this because i upload songs from CDs to my computer via iTunes and then put them on my creative labs MP3 player..which doesnt support MP4 format, because it won't allow me to put any songs i've purchased on iTunes onto it.

the only MP4 music i've ever come across is music that i've downloaded directly from iTunes.

not that tool is even on iTunes.

but. uhm. if somebody did rip it in iTunes...it wouldn't still be in MP4 format.

or..at least not on my laptop.

thoughts?
You have iTunes set to rip in MP3. It can be set (I think it's also defaulted) to rip in M4A (it's not "MP4"). Smaller file size, shittier quality, iPod compatible. I rip in M4A all the time. The fact that it was leaked in M4A shouldn't effect any of the leak theories out there. It's just a matter of who ripped it and how they decided to do it.

lousyhero
04-25-2006, 02:58 PM
good thread for the non believers...

i dont know if its been mentioned already, but i think the product placement in rosetta stoned could be another clue, sunkist and sudafed, and im sure iv heard a few more in there.

those familar with bill hicks and how he has inspired a lot of tools music, would also be familar with his outright contempt for artists selling out for corporate companies.. now not saying money changed hands for these brief mentions, but it does seem very strange for maynard to slip them in there..

hooker with a penis referenced Vans, 501's and Coke... some of these theories are gettin a bit silly. although at least now we're all really looking forward to the official release despite the fact we've downloaded it a few weeks before.

chopsy
04-25-2006, 04:33 PM
are any of you who are champions of this being the real deal going to address Wings for Marie being played in 2002? Just curious I'm not committing to either side but it seems like the strongest point he has is being ignored

Grimace
04-25-2006, 04:42 PM
hooker with a penis referenced Vans, 501's and Coke... some of these theories are gettin a bit silly. although at least now we're all really looking forward to the official release despite the fact we've downloaded it a few weeks before.

yes it did, but that was in the context of the song...

this just seems to be thrown in there for some catchy rhyme..

tcM_Emperor
04-25-2006, 05:43 PM
5. the lyrics on Right in Two, Wings for Marie, Vicarious, and Jambi are easily Maynard's best.

Tell me you're kidding... "Stare like a junkie into the tv, stare like a zombie"

...

LeperKhan
04-25-2006, 06:26 PM
"looks to the sky crying 'why oh why?"

AMF
04-25-2006, 06:36 PM
You guys are absolutely ridiuclous hahahaha. Only Tool fans could come up with these things.......actually I shouldn't complain because this is only 1 retarded thread amidst a bunch of very cool ones I found since I started to read this board. You don't think people are allowed to write things years back but put them on record later? I personally have written close to 40 songs for my band, but when (if) they ever come out and I record them some will be from years ago! Is that wrong? No! Tool can do the same thing. As for the "oh the sound here is different therefore it can't be Tool" like w/Maynard's voice in The Pot, which is soooooooo ironic because if everything was "Tool by-the-numbers" on this record the same people would be complaining about a lack of new ideas or being creative and would be begging for something new. Same with those who think it sounds like Lateralus lefotvers or Undetow b-sides or whatever. You can't please everyone I suppose.

godhenry
04-25-2006, 06:40 PM
if people keep using Blair's newsletters as evidence or supporting materials to prove anything about TOOL, I'm going to shoot somebody.

Listen to Undertow, look at the lyrics in, picture the evolution of TOOL's music and writing since, and if you still think the leak is a hoax, do us a favor and shoot yourself. There's no joke, and i'm not kidding here. Seriously, shoot yourself.

AMF
04-25-2006, 06:40 PM
Seriously, look at the artwork and then listen to the bootlegged album. No connection.

.

Are you retarded? Let me ask you this then...

WHAT THE FUCK DOES UNDERTOW HAVE TO DO WITH OBESE PEOPLE AND RIBS?

Or...

WHAT THE FUCK DOES AENIMA HAVE TO DO WITH A BUNCH OF WEIRD EYES?

Maybe you don't get that eyes have been their theme for the last 3 albums......10,000 Days is consist with the ideas/concepts present on Aenima and Lateralus.

Seriously, I wonder if you guys do this conspircacy stuff to drive regular people insane because it's just so ridiculously dumb and obvious.

AMF
04-25-2006, 06:41 PM
My biggest point I think would be that in the Guitar World interview, Adam explicitly mentions how Tool is different from other bands. "Our records don't sound like other people's records where they release them a year apart and they end up sounding like a bad cover band version of themselves,". HELLO! The leaked album has rehashed Tool riffs all over the place. To me it sounds EXACTLY like a poor version of themselves. If he said this and the leaked version is the real album, he must be some kind of complete moron.

That's YOUR OPINION. You can't base a fact around personal taste for the album.

You conspriacy guys are fucking brilliant I tell ya.

AMF
04-25-2006, 06:42 PM
if people keep using Blair's newsletters as evidence or supporting materials to prove anything about TOOL, I'm going to shoot somebody.

Listen to Undertow, look at the lyrics in, picture the evolution of TOOL's music and writing since, and if you still think the leak is a hoax, do us a favor and shoot yourself. There's no joke, and i'm not kidding here. Seriously, shoot yourself.

Haha. I wouldn't say shoot yourself, cuz that's bad, but please stop posting this ridiculous stuff. Let's focus on the positive and logical.

muzza
04-25-2006, 06:45 PM
People who have heard 10,000 days must be dissapointed with the new release calling it a hoax/Bsides? if it IS the real deal it appears there might be a few dissapointed fans out there who expected more eeeeek!

i suppose we will c when the album is released (in stores)

Unl1v3d
04-26-2006, 04:34 AM
"WHAT THE FUCK DOES UNDERTOW HAVE TO DO WITH OBESE PEOPLE AND RIBS?

Or...

WHAT THE FUCK DOES AENIMA HAVE TO DO WITH A BUNCH OF WEIRD EYES?"



FUCKING LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Echo Flanger
04-26-2006, 07:29 AM
are any of you who are champions of this being the real deal going to address Wings for Marie being played in 2002? Just curious I'm not committing to either side but it seems like the strongest point he has is being ignored

so they wrote the riff in 2001 or 2002 and jammed on it at some live shows. Then they later made the riff into a song and recorded it for this album. What does it prove?

rickyduckworth
04-26-2006, 01:45 PM
what's funny is how OPPOSED some people are to this idea........i'm indifferent......i have thoroughly enjoyed the leak and won't be disappointed if this is it....i'll love it if there is more to be heard too.......

there are "facts" to support anyone's argument, but what is bothering me is how EASY it was to get ahold of.........either it was handled sloppily and got out somehow, or it was never meant to be secret......at a listening party in AUS a few weeks back, maynard was the ONLY person to touch the CD and came/left with it in his possession.....why guard it that well, then just let it get out 3 weeks early?

i wouldn't be surprised at all IF this was it, but i wouldn't be surprised if there was a whole new cd waiting to be released.......or if maybe this was half..........

getting bitchy because someone thinks it may actually be a "pacifier" of sorts is just stupid though........no one here knows any info to 100% put anything to rest

allusion7.0
04-29-2006, 04:18 PM
1. In the September 2005 newsletter Blair wrote: "Okay, first there was the decoy record just to confound all those would-be bootleggers out there. This took, oh, about a year, just because the band members wanted it to sound pretty close to the real thing (so as to be believable), along with equally believable art design." Read it for yourself http://www.toolband.com/news/letter/2005_09.php


4. Listen to The Pot. Get past the begining where Maynard sounds like Madonna. Now listen to his voice. That voice is what his voice sounded like 10 years ago - it does not sound like that anymore because he has gotten older. Listen to the base. That is Paul D'Amour not Justin Chancellor. Listen to how hard it is. Listen to how he slaps it. Justin doesn't play like that. Listen to a few songs on Undertow and then a few on Lateralus (or just listen to Vicarious) there is a big difference in the way the base guitar is played on both of those albums (don't listen to AEnima - both Justin and Paul played on it). The difference in style in the way the base is played in The Pot and Vicarious is striking. It's obvious that The Pot has existed for a long time.

6. This reason is weak since I don't have a source, but I remember reading an interview in drummer's world or something with Danny Carey, and he mentioned that they had enough material left over from Lateralus to make another album.

What do you all think... let the name calling commence.
alright. firstly (in response to 1.) Blair is always fucking with people. you can't believe all the shit he says/writes.

secondly (a.) listen to ticks and leeches. that isn't exactly the voice he used on disposition.
secondly (b.) justin and paul play bass guitars. not base guitars. No way in hell that was a typo, you're probably just stupid.

thirdly. let's assume that danny said that (i have absolutely no idea). you said in 4. that it was paul d'amore that was playing bass, not justin chancellor. it just so happens that paul was already gone by the time that lateralus was created.

and finally, since you asked for it, fucker.
all of this may be a bit harsh but i've gotten tired of reading the same theories from post to post written by those who know shit about music (base guitar).

Absent Mind
04-29-2006, 10:40 PM
alright. firstly (in response to 1.) Blair is always fucking with people. you can't believe all the shit he says/writes.

secondly (a.) listen to ticks and leeches. that isn't exactly the voice he used on disposition.
secondly (b.) justin and paul play bass guitars. not base guitars. No way in hell that was a typo, you're probably just stupid.

thirdly. let's assume that danny said that (i have absolutely no idea). you said in 4. that it was paul d'amore that was playing bass, not justin chancellor. it just so happens that paul was already gone by the time that lateralus was created.

and finally, since you asked for it, fucker.
all of this may be a bit harsh but i've gotten tired of reading the same theories from post to post written by those who know shit about music (base guitar).

...arrowed!

seneca77
04-29-2006, 11:18 PM
You guys are absolutely ridiuclous hahahaha. Only Tool fans could come up with these things.......actually I shouldn't complain because this is only 1 retarded thread amidst a bunch of very cool ones I found since I started to read this board. You don't think people are allowed to write things years back but put them on record later? I personally have written close to 40 songs for my band, but when (if) they ever come out and I record them some will be from years ago! Is that wrong? No! Tool can do the same thing. As for the "oh the sound here is different therefore it can't be Tool" like w/Maynard's voice in The Pot, which is soooooooo ironic because if everything was "Tool by-the-numbers" on this record the same people would be complaining about a lack of new ideas or being creative and would be begging for something new. Same with those who think it sounds like Lateralus lefotvers or Undetow b-sides or whatever. You can't please everyone I suppose.

and you certainly could not please me. go away