TOOL/Roger Waters & Amused To Death

[Jim]

Vicarious remindes me (its overall theme) of Roger Waters' song "The Bravery Of Being Out Of Range" and Right In Two remindes me (monkey-as human reference) of "Perfect Sense, Part 1"- both off AMUSED TO DEATH(1992)-a very political CD that was critical of our first Iraq war. A must-have CD for P.F. fans. Of course Roger is referencing 2001: A Space Odyssey in that particular song. Then again, I think Tool is in love with that film, too. See my synchronicity conspiracy post if you can find it. I've read all of the Pink Floyd comparisons, but none named Roger in particular.
-Jim P. III
[email protected]

[xpandnz]

Rock on Roger Waters! AMused to death is amazing!
The whole album is a mind blower!
Shot for giving him props

[Untamed]

Vicarious remindes me (its overall theme) of Roger Waters' song "The Bravery Of Being Out Of Range" and Right In Two remindes me (monkey-as human reference) of "Perfect Sense, Part 1"- both off AMUSED TO DEATH(1992)-a very political CD that was critical of our first Iraq war. A must-have CD for P.F. fans. Of course Roger is referencing 2001: A Space Odyssey in that particular song. Then again, I think Tool is in love with that film, too. See my synchronicity conspiracy post if you can find it. I've read all of the Pink Floyd comparisons, but none named Roger in particular.
-Jim P. III
[email protected]


Marie and 10,000 days I hear Gilmour for some reason. Musically as well.

[Ancalagon]

Yeah, I hear Gilmour in Marie/10000 Days and Waters in Right In Two, King Crimson in Vicarious and Zeppelin in The Pot, Radiohead in Intension and Meshuggah in Jambi, Tool and, surprisingly, A Perfect Circle everywhere-- a melting pot of influences.

[Athanatizein]

Of course Roger is referencing 2001: A Space Odyssey in that particular song. Then again, I think Tool is in love with that film, too.

What do you base this assumption on? References?

[hbynoe]

the first two outright references that i picked up from tool without knowing anything about anything was the floyd and messhuggah also..

[unclezoso]

Yes. I noticed the same thing. 'Monkeys watching war scenes from TV' theme is in both albums.

Also the line "Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brother down" reminded me of a line from 'Too Much Rope' by Roger Waters from the same album: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"

[btaw]

Vicarious remindes me (its overall theme) of Roger Waters' song "The Bravery Of Being Out Of Range" and Right In Two remindes me (monkey-as human reference) of "Perfect Sense, Part 1"- both off AMUSED TO DEATH(1992)-a very political CD that was critical of our first Iraq war. A must-have CD for P.F. fans. Of course Roger is referencing 2001: A Space Odyssey in that particular song. Then again, I think Tool is in love with that film, too.

This was my first response after hearing these songs and reflecting on their content. Actually I was just going to start a thread about the thematic similarities of the two albums.

The 2001/monkey imagery winds through Waters entire album, from the cover artwork, through alot of the incredibly verbose lyrics. (I think the album held some record concerning the most lines of lyrics). If you listen to the version of 'perfect sense' on the live album that Waters released a few years back, he actually uses a sample of the HAL/Dave dialogue ('Dave, my mind is going' etc.). He had originally been denied the use of this sample by the Kubrick estate, but, the story goes, after Kubricks death he thought he might get away with it live.

As you have pointed out, these same themes are pursued on 10,000 days. Most notable is the reference to making a club, as this is of course the key occurence in the 2001 scene, the club then morphing into the space-craft signaling the development of technology. I would think think that this reference being made in the two songs that bookend the album is also not a co-incidence. At least on one level then, this might be seen as a 'theme' of the album.

What is really interesting are the different 'solutions' offered by both albums.

Waters is rather pessimistic and perhaps ambivalent about our fate, firmly rejecting the material progress paradigm, and quite obviously arguing that recourse to God just tends to make things worse, as we then fight about the nature of that deity.

Tool on the other hand seem to be referencing this theme/debate, but offering a different 'exit'. That 'right in two' is followed by what I gather to be an extra-terrestrial encounter and escape would seem to suggest that there may be at least one other option available. Although, I am not familiar with just how the relationship with et is conceptualised by the various members of the band, or whether this 'outlet' is meant to be literal, or rather, suggested ironically.

[ChaseA17]

Anyone ever hear "The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking" (Waters/Clapton 1984)? Amazing Album...

[jack_shit]

You guys seem to know an awful lot about unreleased material.

[Jim]

What do you base this assumption on? References?
Oh dammit- you asked, now I gotta back up my claim-dammit-here I go
Lyrics to Perfect Sense, Part One: (the first verse)
"the monkey sat on a pile of stones
and he stared at the broken bone in his hand (sound familiar?)
and the starins of a Viennese quartet (you know the song being referenced)
rang out across the land
the monkey looked up at the stars
and he thought to himself
memory is a sranger
history is for fools
and he cleaned his hands
in a pool of holy writing
turned his back on the garden
and set out for the nearest town...."

When I got to see Roger live in 2000, he performed "Time"- during the percussion heavy intro-they played that same part of 2001 with the monkey/prehuman/whatever you want to call it smashing the bone on the skeleton of the tapir on the large video screen behind the stage. I saw it with all 3 of my eyes. So did everyone else in that sold out West Palm Beach venue.
I ain't even going to debate Tool's possible love for this film. I've done it too much & wasted to much time on it. Just look at the band's name and think of the bone.
why the fuck did I start this thread. dammit.
-Jim-

[btaw]

why the fuck did I start this thread. dammit.
-Jim-

Hey! I appreciated it. Saved me from starting it myself.

And, I happen to think you are right on the money.

[bellamadia]

I swear, it's like an orgasm for me. TOOL and Pink Floyd are my ALL time favorite bands, I am loving this. MORE MORE YES YES YES OHHHHHHHH YEAAAAAHHH!!!!!!!!

[Matt8]

I made the exact same connection on that song. with amused to death and the monkey wasting away watching tv and whatnot and how they both use the whole monkey persona for people. i love roger waters. tool and pink floyd line my room. finally bought sauserful of secrets, animals, obscured by clouds and piper at the gates of dawn on vinyl.