Maynard is a hypocrite

[jbweldon04]

In Aenima Maynard's lyrics are blasphemous. All he does use bad lyrics about God and Jesus. He never says anything good about religion. Then all of a sudden his mother dies and he decides to write lyrics to a song about her "getting her wings" as an angel. This is bullshit. He is contradicting his beliefs and needs to decide where he belongs. You can't commit sins like using God's name in vain and then ask for your mother to be angel. He needs to rethink his lyrics.

[blair's man sausage]

he doesn't have any beliefs...fucking horrible first post in fact...

worst. fucking. first. post. ever.

[dragonlink2]

He doesn't, as far as I know, believe in heaven or God. In this song he isn't saying they exist either, he is saying that his mother was "perfect" and "pure" and that if anyone should deserve a heaven, it should be her.

[SoulEdge]

In Aenima Maynard's lyrics are blasphemous. All he does use bad lyrics about God and Jesus. He never says anything good about religion. Then all of a sudden his mother dies and he decides to write lyrics to a song about her "getting her wings" as an angel. This is bullshit. He is contradicting his beliefs and needs to decide where he belongs. You can't commit sins like using God's name in vain and then ask for your mother to be angel. He needs to rethink his lyrics.

Welcome to TOOLNavy.

[rochey-o]

good post

[Thetics]

You're an idiot

edit - response to first post

ahem... truth.

[Neil]

Maynard's interpretation of God differs from your interpretation of God.

Tool are have unorthidox spirituality/religion (Gnostic/Rosicrucian/Thelemic what have you)

[ry.]

I think ive seen a thread titled "maynard is a hypocrite" 3 times now,
-lateralus
-thirteenth step
and now....

[Jimmeny]

Nice first post, I think we should be allowed to discuss different aspects of the band without being fan boys. If we're not allowed to point out that some of the lyrics are hypocritical, that's just fan boyism and it's worse than useless.

However, I think I agree with dragonlink. Maynard doesn't dispute the meanings/symbols behind the metaphors, he just doesn't believe they're real.

[jbweldon04]

If she deserved to go to heaven then he has some inclination towards it. It doesn't make sense to speak the way he did in his previous albums then have lyrics like this in a song. It is contradictive. Period.

[Shyfted One]

If she deserved to go to heaven then he has some inclination towards it. It doesn't make sense to speak the way he did in his previous albums then have lyrics like this in a song. It is contradictive. Period.

Yeah, because people never alter their thinking through life or consider new things.

[Jorge]

The things he says in this song are what best expresses how he feels about his love for his mother. This song wasn't about his beliefs. You need to rethink your own words.

Here's a bad analogy: If I don't believe in god, but somthing miraculous happened to me, like I got tool tickets to the denver show on may 10th for instance, I might say something like "OMG I can't believe I got these tickets. Thank god my internet connection is so fast." Am I a hipocryte or am I just saying what best suits my emotions?

[undeniable dilemma]

You can't commit sins like using God's name in vain and then ask for your mother to be angel. He needs to rethink his lyrics.
If you knew anything about Christianity, then you would know that one can be forgiven for their sins. All Maynard has to do is sincerely ask God to forgive him for his usage of God's name in vain.

[cheba63]

In Aenima Maynard's lyrics are blasphemous. All he does use bad lyrics about God and Jesus. He never says anything good about religion. Then all of a sudden his mother dies and he decides to write lyrics to a song about her "getting her wings" as an angel. This is bullshit. He is contradicting his beliefs and needs to decide where he belongs. You can't commit sins like using God's name in vain and then ask for your mother to be angel. He needs to rethink his lyrics.


Go read the bible.

[jbweldon04]

"Oh so many ways for me to show you
How the savior has abandoned you
Fuck your God
Your Lord and your Christ
He did this
Took all you had and
Left you this way
Still you pray, you never stray
Never taste of the fruit
You never thought to question why "

You are right he never said anything bad about God

[Jorge]

"Oh so many ways for me to show you
How the savior has abandoned you
Fuck your God
Your Lord and your Christ
He did this
Took all you had and
Left you this way
Still you pray, you never stray
Never taste of the fruit
You never thought to question why "

You are right he never said anything bad about God

Think outside the box. He's not going to spoonfeed you.

[SoulEdge]

How the savior has abandoned you
Fuck your God
Your Lord and your Christ
Never taste of the fruit...

Maynard is saying your God, not God in general.

[Illuminus]

Who's to say what Maynard truly believes in, really. Its obvious he believes in the soul and believes in a higher power or being, just listen to Lateralus. Tool, man they have shit figured out for sure. They understand whats going on in the world, they know. They are very informed. LOL at the Rosicrucians comment also. I have had that thought cross my mind that they are in on shit, or sold their souls to the devil ;) haha j/k but they do know of the controlling evils in the world and they are trying to spread a pretty blatant message if you ask me. I mean this album doesnt have 11 tracks for no reason, same with why Lateralus had 13, its all symbology. Also its all how you take it in and analyze it. Lateralus has helped me through a lot of thinking and forks in the road in my life specifically Parabol/a and Lateralis. Those songs have so much meaning and power.

I think Maynard has a lot of problems with religion and how dumb founded and confused the sheeple of the world are. I know that as I grow my views on life and spirituality change. Its all about experience and the evolution of the human consciousness.

Why get hot and bothered if Maynard were to one day say he believes in God, who are you to judge him or claim he's a hypocrite? You should be happy that he has discovered something new and spiritual. I personally believe we are all God, we are consciousness which created earth, the universe everything. All this shit is an illusion, much like The Matrix. We are just plugged into a dream. All this pain is an illusion.

[undeniable dilemma]

Towards jbweldon04: *sighs* Maynard is not talking about his own beliefs in this song, you fucktard.

[jbweldon04]

His lyrics suck, its a shame he has such a good voice cause he doesn't use it the best way he could. His message could do more than it actually does. I disagree with almost everything he says.

[hbynoe]

i think it is beautiful
how he is expressing himself
how he has healed through her life..how they were both healed in enormous ways
and now he just wants her to expect what she believes in
what greater love is there....

hypocritical....fuck no

[jbweldon04]

Well, then he needs to say he believes in something than just be hypocritical of everyone else. Why curse other people's God then ask your own to accept your mother when you are in need. Just another example of someone who only needs GOd when they need him and can't handle things themselves.

[ljasonl]

Actually he's quite clear in this song that he doesn't believe in heaven or that she'll "get her wings"

What he's saying is that if it were true, she'd deserve it of all people
Along with a whole lot of other things he's saying at the same time...

[ljasonl]

His lyrics suck, its a shame he has such a good voice cause he doesn't use it the best way he could. His message could do more than it actually does. I disagree with almost everything he says.

Here's an idea, quit listening to him then
It's obvious you're only here to cause trouble

[jbweldon04]

someone can listen to music and not like someone's lyrics. Tool is famous for their music, not their lyrics. and why is everyone so mean and vulgar to people who don't share the same views as them. Lighten up.

[Viginti Tres]

In Aenima Maynard's lyrics are blasphemous. All he does use bad lyrics about God and Jesus. He never says anything good about religion. Then all of a sudden his mother dies and he decides to write lyrics to a song about her "getting her wings" as an angel. This is bullshit. He is contradicting his beliefs and needs to decide where he belongs. You can't commit sins like using God's name in vain and then ask for your mother to be angel. He needs to rethink his lyrics.

It's called growth, epiphany and change. Maynard's not a static cardboard cutout...look at everything he's been through since Ænima. No, let me rephrase that. Just look at all he's been through 2003 onward.

[Jorge]

someone can listen to music and not like someone's lyrics. Tool is famous for their music, not their lyrics. and why is everyone so mean and vulgar to people who don't share the same views as them. Lighten up.

Are the lyrics not part of the music?

[mmortal03]

Maynard is saying your God, not God in general.

I have heard people say this before but, remember, his mother was a Christian, so he is saying it about the Christian God. Unless you are saying that she had some kind of radical beliefs for a Christian that wouldn't have had her believing in the same God that the rest of the average Christians do then he is attacking the Christian God.

Whether it is offensive or not to people, that isn't for me to judge.

Another example is in Eulogy. He never explicitly states that he is talking about Jesus, and when you read the lyrics, it doesn't all seem to be talking about Jesus (Jesus DID point to his heart, he didn't just wave the finger) and Maynard COULD just be using metaphors for something different. But I don't know, I mean, who is this other important fool martyr that he would be talking about that had a lot of nothing to say, and we need him off the cross to make space for the next one? If he isn't actually brutally mocking Jesus, he sure is making it seem like he is.

But remember, he can say what he wants to, even if he's not serious.


Oh, about the topic of this thread, I don't think Maynard's lyrics make him out to be a hypocrite.

[Viginti Tres]

I have heard people say this before but, remember, his mother was a Christian, so he is saying it about the Christian God. Unless you are saying that she had some kind of radical beliefs for a Christian that wouldn't have had her believing in the same God that the rest of the average Christians do then he is attacking the Christian God.

Whether it is offensive or not to people, that isn't for me to judge.

Another example is in Eulogy. He never explicitly states that he is talking about Jesus, and when you read the lyrics, it doesn't all seem to be talking about Jesus (Jesus DID point to his heart, he didn't just wave the finger) and Maynard COULD just be using metaphors for something different. But I don't know, I mean, who is this other important fool martyr that he would be talking about that had a lot of nothing to say, and we need him off the cross to make space for the next one? If he isn't actually brutally mocking Jesus, he sure is making it seem like he is.


I thought Eulogy was more directed toward L. Ron Hubbard and all these phony "messiahs", not to Jesus.

as for all this talk about Maynard saying "Fuck your God"....that's on Judith, a track dedicated to his mother.

Step back for a moment and look at the picture. You're mother has been paralyzed since you were 11 years old. She was a devout Christian, not like these bullshit Christians who go to Church on Sunday morning and then kill someone Sunday night. But a Christian who lived a pure life, free from sin and evil. Wouldn't you be angry at God if Judith Marie Keenan was your mother? The fuel behind Maynard's anger is not full of malice directed at God. At no point in any Tool song has Maynard criticized God, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, or any other religious icon. He has criticized people's faith in things and poked fun at the hypocrisy and stupidity in the way people celebrate their faith (for example, disgustipated) but he's never unleashed a direct attack on God, Jesus, etc.

[ljasonl]

I've never thought Eulogy was about Jesus, and that's one of my favorite songs

[lateral_circle]

Oh my god. Maynard is talking about PEOPLES GODS in general. He is not sayin FUCK GOD. Wake up.

[lateral_circle]

And, MOST people are into TOOLS lyrics more than the music. Those being the fairweather fans from what Ive encountered. Me, I take it all in. Lyrics, feeling, music, everything.

[insaner]

"Oh so many ways for me to show you
How the savior has abandoned you
Fuck your God
Your Lord and your Christ
He did this
Took all you had and
Left you this way
Still you pray, you never stray
Never taste of the fruit
You never thought to question why "

You are right he never said anything bad about God


he says YOUR god, as in HER god, not YOUR god as in you personally. fucking xtains, you think you have the copyright on god motherfucker? typical hypocritical bullshit.

and do you understand what the jehovas witness version of god is?

[champion]

It's called growth, epiphany and change. Maynard's not a static cardboard cutout...look at everything he's been through since Ænima. No, let me rephrase that. Just look at all he's been through 2003 onward.

Viginti Tres has 23 posts...

[jbweldon04]

Well, good for him that he has found religion. Maybe he can help something. But he needs to divert it better than he has publicly. All he ever does it talk about political crap. He needs to get his fanbase involved if he wants my support.

[lateral_circle]

Well, good for him that he has found religion. Maybe he can help something. But he needs to divert it better than he has publicly. All he ever does it talk about political crap. He needs to get his fanbase involved if he wants my support.

You aren't a fan. Don't even try to pretend. Maynard is first and foremost the LEAST hypocritical frontman I've ever listened to. SO basically, your a moron.

[lateral_circle]

How does this song mean he has found religion? lol. Wow.

[Untamed]

I have heard people say this before but, remember, his mother was a Christian, so he is saying it about the Christian God. Unless you are saying that she had some kind of radical beliefs for a Christian that wouldn't have had her believing in the same God that the rest of the average Christians do then he is attacking the Christian God.

Whether it is offensive or not to people, that isn't for me to judge.

Another example is in Eulogy. He never explicitly states that he is talking about Jesus, and when you read the lyrics, it doesn't all seem to be talking about Jesus (Jesus DID point to his heart, he didn't just wave the finger) and Maynard COULD just be using metaphors for something different. But I don't know, I mean, who is this other important fool martyr that he would be talking about that had a lot of nothing to say, and we need him off the cross to make space for the next one? If he isn't actually brutally mocking Jesus, he sure is making it seem like he is.

But remember, he can say what he wants to, even if he's not serious.


Oh, about the topic of this thread, I don't think Maynard's lyrics make him out to be a hypocrite.

"I mean, who is this other important fool martyr that he would be talking about that had a lot of nothing to say, and we need him off the cross to make space for the next one? "

Easy.....himself.

[stardown]

Wow. This thread makes me wish I was dead. So loving. And Positive.

[SoulEdge]

I've never thought Eulogy was about Jesus

Eulogy could be about anyone or anything, nothing or no one in particular.

[ljasonl]

Well, good for him that he has found religion. Maybe he can help something. But he needs to divert it better than he has publicly. All he ever does it talk about political crap. He needs to get his fanbase involved if he wants my support.

Yeah, he should stop messing with that political stuff and sing about something that might help someone

I know, he can sing about skateboarding! Or the school dance!

[ljasonl]

Eulogy could be about anyone or anything, nothing or no one in particular.

I've never thought it about ANYONE in particular actually. It just never felt right to me to try and nail it down to someone

So yeah, I agree

[Shyfted One]

Yeah, he should stop messing with that political stuff and sing about something that might help someone

I know, he can sing about skateboarding! Or the school dance!

Or that girl I'm always thinking about, but am too shy to ask out so I slit my wrists.

[jbweldon04]

The lyrics on this whole album makes me think that he found religion through his mother's passing. He is sorry for ignoring the message earlier and wants to be forgiven by everyone and God as well. He wants to start over and make his message mean something. Or he could write all this for more attention I don't know.

[right_in_three]

I definitely a devout Christian, and I still can't and won't suppress these guy's genius in the music industry.

As the lyrics state, has anyone ever "risen to the height of their halos?"

[bwood99x]

Towards jbweldon04: *sighs* Maynard is not talking about his own beliefs in this song, you fucktard.


exactly...he even says in the song he doesnt believe in it really, and to forgive him if she sees her maker tonight. The song is written for his mother obviously...

i think the lyrics are beautiful...one of their most beautiful songs...sorry THE most beautiful song

im done with this thread...too many duchebags

if you dont like the song, fine...

[LunarSpitfyre]

maynard has a mother? when did this happen like really did i miss something?

loving the confusion

[Dungflowers]

This song is defiantely NOT from Maynard's perspective. Its from the perspective of his mother as she ascends to heaven (as she believed she would). The song plays out like a story of MJK's mum dying in the first part then confronting st. peter or whoever in the second. At one point Maynard asks his mother to question her maker about her circumstances, more importantly why her. I think the song is more of an FU to all that heaven stuff, and lies in the vein of "Judith".

[Citizen Erased]

I don't think that Maynard has 'found God' as such. To me, he has a fascination with the imagery of Heaven.

Heaven and Angels are mentioned a lot on this album. Now, that doesn't mean he believes in God at all, but the idea of Heaven is appealing. I am an atheist, and I too like the idea of Heaven. Not that I believe i'm going there, but it's a nice thought.

[Hey It's Aaron]

My belief is that to him.. maybe that the thought that his mother is in a special place.. her special place brought him solice. Its almost like its a requiem... telling god to let his mother in..at the end pleading to he unkown for her.. telling god that she may have save one life his own in a way. Maynard may not have the same beliefs as the mainstream.. but you can tell this was his catharsis for the love and pain of losing her.

Ideas can change .. we can all grow and see diffrnt thing is diffrent lights..

[molehill]

Perhaps Maynard is expressing that, yes there is something that could fulfill the concept of 'God' some universal, all-defining force, but that the Christian concept of that God is incorrect, and leads to behaviour that is contrary to the supposed ideals.

[dracomordag]

this thread makes me LOL big time

[skizzott]

Hate to quote Marilyn Manson here, but my thoughts are:
"I never hated the one true God, but the God of the people I hated"

[Clutch it like an AEnima]

Well, good for him that he has found religion. Maybe he can help something. But he needs to divert it better than he has publicly. All he ever does it talk about political crap. He needs to get his fanbase involved if he wants my support.
shut up....and listen to something else, he prolly doesnt want u as a fan anyway

[right_in_three]

Yeah, I'm glad my first post wasn't based off a ludicrious thoughts.

The voice in Viginti Tres scares the crap outta me.

[TheEulogyOfMe]

In Aenima Maynard's lyrics are blasphemous. All he does use bad lyrics about God and Jesus. He never says anything good about religion. Then all of a sudden his mother dies and he decides to write lyrics to a song about her "getting her wings" as an angel. This is bullshit. He is contradicting his beliefs and needs to decide where he belongs. You can't commit sins like using God's name in vain and then ask for your mother to be angel. He needs to rethink his lyrics.

Ok, ever change your mind about something? When you mature a little? or maybe not change your mind completely but adjust to the way you talk about something? Like when you're a kid you want cookies and candy 24 hours a day. Now, when you're all growed (I did that on purpose, I'm not illiterate) up you now know that if you had all that shit 24/7 you'd be sick as a dog and yeah. he, obviously, loves his Mother. And out of respect to his mother and what SHE believes, not necessarily him, he writes this very powerful song. It's called Artistic freedom.

[clarity.]

jbweldon04, you have failed. abandon this name and re-register. just start over man. just start over.

[21122012]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=metaphor
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=allusion
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=allegory

[Vegama]

Apparently someone forgot that christianity is impersonal to anyone who isn't a religious fucker. Making metaphors about religion, and comparing the way someone lived to biblical refrences is fine by me. It's funny you call people hypocrites, because a true christian (if you are one) wouldn't be listening to TOOL in the first place. Also, he never said anything bad about jesus on aenima, and Eulogy was about L. Ron Hubbard.

They've never said anything bad about Yahweh or Jesus, get over yourself.

[badshirt]

I believe he's singing about being an angel on earth - it seems as if she was a believer. In 10,000 days he goes on to almost cynically demand heaven for her. He's saying "fetch me the spirit, the son and the father" - fetch is derogatory if you're talking about the supreme.

Clearly he's down on it but think his mother deserves heaven in th afterlife - after living here on earth in hell with her dilemna. He also probably saw her faith in that situation and she was angelic in the sense that the faith was present. Believing in that situation does make you an Angel.

I think the lyrics are very smart - the melodies and vocal harmonies are amazing.

[21122012]

They've never said anything bad about Yahweh or Jesus, get over yourself.

Rather a brash statement don't you think? Opiate? Sober? Eulogy? People can insist that Eulogy was written about L. Ron Hubbard but you would be ignorant to not admit the Jesus allusion is very clearly there.

[nullcory]

How many people do you know that are Atheist/Agnostic and still use phrases like "pray for me/i'll pray for you/etc" as well as plenty of other references to god, not referring specifically to the god of christianity or whatever religion you please.

I do, all the time, and that by no means makes me a hypocrite.

Because Maynard claims that his mother is worthy of heaven has nothing to do with his own personal beliefs, in fact it could simply be the fact that the life she lead was heavenly and/or good. Using heaven as a metaphor to describe that does not make maynard a religious person, simply a spiritual one.

[Vegama]

Hey, the bible is a great book, it is written in an amazing style, and is a good read, not necessarily the lessons or anything like that, but the symbolism is just fun. Why can't anyone quote it being outside of the faith?

and I agree with the idea that he's stating, like he did in APC's song judith, that he is disappointed in a way with her faith, in some way he is at least. The whole song is about what she had to suffer through for 27 years, and he's just saying that she deserv es peace after going through what most people can only dream of.

[wscarlet]

Ignorant fibbers in the congregation,
Gather around spewing sympathy,
Spare me.

Those are his opinions of "organized" Christianity.

Pretty straightforward. This song is about his desire to see his mother get what she put her whole life toward, like any son would want to see happen to his mother. Be at peace with what you have done, I love you no matter what, and this is how I am expressing this to you.

[Untamed]

Apparently someone forgot that christianity is impersonal to anyone who isn't a religious fucker. Making metaphors about religion, and comparing the way someone lived to biblical refrences is fine by me. It's funny you call people hypocrites, because a true christian (if you are one) wouldn't be listening to TOOL in the first place. Also, he never said anything bad about jesus on aenima, and Eulogy was about L. Ron Hubbard.

They've never said anything bad about Yahweh or Jesus, get over yourself.

This is good. I am a Christian in that I beleive in Christ and what he did. At the same time I love the crap out of Tool. Why would this be "not ok" ?

I am so into the way Maynard spills his guts out, to hell with pinning him on any religion. As for myself, yes I am a Christian, I listen to Tool, I laugh when he swears at God, it's such a close to home thing for me. I battle with God all the time. Just cause one says they are Christian doesnt mean shit as far as "having it all together".

Truth is. Maynard, Tool, and APC...each one of these help me heal in any situation. What I hear when I listen to certain songs is completely different then what you hear, and I beleive that is what the whole friggin point of Tool is.

There you have it......I love God, I love Jesus and I love the crap outta Tool and their frontman, and you know what. I dont give a damn if that doesnt suit the die hards.


Making fun of sheep...just makes you a sheep who runs with the pack that makes fun of sheep. It's all a circle. All the same.

[T00l Dude]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Anyway, the answer seems to be in the song itself. Take that this is my own interpretation and by no means a fact. I'd like to hear any input anyone has also.

I don't think Maynard has reversed his views on anything, necessarily. Take this passage from the song:

"set as i am in my ways and my arrogance
burning on through talks to Paul and believers
you were my witness, my eyes, my evidence
Judith Marie, unconditional one"

Seems to me that he is stating that none of his views have changed (set in his ways), and he seems to still look down on "Paul and believers." However, he contrasts this by bringing his mother up to a divine level. This theme seems to resonate throughout the song.

Anyway, I believe this just adds to what many have already said.

Carry on.

[mmortal03]

he says YOUR god, as in HER god, not YOUR god as in you personally. fucking xtains, you think you have the copyright on god motherfucker? typical hypocritical bullshit.

and do you understand what the jehovas witness version of god is?

I am not the poster you are replying to, but thanks for generalizing that all Christians generalize. Did you read my above post about how Maynard's mother was a Christian? He is therefore saying, "screw your (Christian) God". His mom wasn't a Jehovah's Witness, nor was she Buddist, or any other follower of another god.

I personally, however, don't have a problem with Maynard's feelings there, though, as I can understand why he might have them, and there is no way for me to judge exactly where he actually was coming from.

Also,


because a true christian (if you are one) wouldn't be listening to TOOL in the first place.

Can the poster of that please elaborate?

Hate to quote Marilyn Manson here, but my thoughts are:
"I never hated the one true God, but the God of the people I hated"

Yeah, some people say Maynard just hates the God of the hypocrites that go off to Church, but don't practice what they preach. If this was only the case though, and Maynard actually did believe in some good true god, he would probably have written his lyrics a little differently in consideration of that.

I'd like to know why, if he can differentiate betwen the hypocritical Christians and the good ones, why he doesn't state in his lyrics this? Why would he want to hate even the good Christians? It should be obvious to him, by the very example of his mother, that whomever it was that allegedly mollested him as a child (was it his father?) wasn't practicing what they preach, but that some Christians actually do.

[Untamed]

Ignorant fibbers in the congregation,
Gather around spewing sympathy,
Spare me.

Those are his opinions of "organized" Christianity.

Pretty straightforward. This song is about his desire to see his mother get what she put her whole life toward, like any son would want to see happen to his mother. Be at peace with what you have done, I love you no matter what, and this is how I am expressing this to you.


One of the major points of Jesus' ministry was to show that the religion of man is seriously flawwed. This is no hidden secret. "Organized religion" is fubar'd. Jesus knew it, Maynard knows it, and anyone calling themselves a Christian should know it.

[rednyne]

this thread does not deliver.

[Agenda]

Hmmm.... lets think kids this couldn't just be maynard reconciling with his mom .... no of course not never....... He couldn't possibly hate religous ideaology and still love his mother. Nope cant be. opiate couldn't be about corrupt religous figures.

[xmorteferoz]

T00l Dude was close, but got the lyrics wrong a little and failed to mention some very important things.

Let me lay it all out in simple terms for the rest of you. It's pretty easy. Pretty logical. I don't see where all the confusion is coming from.

First of all, a lot of you are bringing up "Judith" as evidence for Maynard's views on religion. Good. Unfortunately, you're missing the point of the song. The entirety of "Judith" revolves around how Maynard sees his mother still praising a God that has, in his eyes, betrayed her by afflicting her with her condition.. If he exists.

Evidence:

"You're such an inspiration
For the ways
That I'll never ever choose to be"

(Blind Faith.)

"Oh so many ways for me to show you
How your savior has abandoned you"

(Obvious.)

"It's not like you killed someone
It's not like you drove a hateful spear
Into his side
Praise the one who left you
Broken down and paralyzed"

(Again, obvious. "You didn't do anything to deserve your current situation. Your God left you broken down and paralyzed, but you praise him anyway? Why?")

Ever try to have a logical conversation with a Christian? You desperately want to shake them by the shoulders and tell them to wake the fuck up, open their eyes. This is Maynard's "shake of the shoulders" to his mother.

Now, as for 10,000 Days itself, only T00l Dude managed to pull up the best piece of evidence against you fools claiming that Maynard has suddenly "become religious" and is "being hypocritical." The fucking LYRICS.

"Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance,
Burden of proof tossed upon non-believers."
(close, T00l Dude. Listen again, I promise this is correct.)

Maynard clearly states here that he is still "set in his ways," in his intellectual "arrogance" in regards to how completely sure he is about his views on organized religion. That he's still pissed that the "burden of proof" seems to be on the shoulders of non-believers, when it should be the other way around. Regardless, he follows this with:

"You were my witness.
My eyes, my evidence.
Judith Marie, unconditional one."

This does not mean that her actions, or her death, successfully "converted" him towards religion. It only means that she was the closest he'd ever seen to the "Christian Ideal," that the rest of the "Ignorant fibbers in the congregation" couldn't "even hold a candle up to you."

He uses Christian allegories and motifs throughout the song, not because he has converted and "found Jesus," or because he's a hypocrite.. But because feels that if anyone deserved heaven, it was her.

[Fritz]

If she deserved to go to heaven then he has some inclination towards it. It doesn't make sense to speak the way he did in his previous albums then have lyrics like this in a song. It is contradictive. Period.

If you look at 90% of tool lyrics they aren't in direct criticism of spirituality it is a criticism of the middle men of religion, and the way religion is used as a means to an end. The songs don't bash islam or buddhism or christianity they bash the people who follow blindly and are used by others and led to believe in other's interpretations of the original words. I think Maynard has even said something in the past that he has nothing against spirituality and religion in is it's pure form. The lyrics are meant as a way to question the abuse of a person's blind faith, not to say faith is a bad thing.

[Fritz]

I have heard people say this before but, remember, his mother was a Christian, so he is saying it about the Christian God. Unless you are saying that she had some kind of radical beliefs for a Christian that wouldn't have had her believing in the same God that the rest of the average Christians do then he is attacking the Christian God.

Whether it is offensive or not to people, that isn't for me to judge.

Another example is in Eulogy. He never explicitly states that he is talking about Jesus, and when you read the lyrics, it doesn't all seem to be talking about Jesus (Jesus DID point to his heart, he didn't just wave the finger) and Maynard COULD just be using metaphors for something different. But I don't know, I mean, who is this other important fool martyr that he would be talking about that had a lot of nothing to say, and we need him off the cross to make space for the next one? If he isn't actually brutally mocking Jesus, he sure is making it seem like he is.

But remember, he can say what he wants to, even if he's not serious.


Oh, about the topic of this thread, I don't think Maynard's lyrics make him out to be a hypocrite.


IIRC In one of the articles the band talks about how eulogy is not about jesus but about L. Ron Hubbard.

[F!end]

@ xmorteferoz: Best post of the thread!

[xmorteferoz]

@ xmorteferoz: Best post of the thread!

I'm just glad someone read it.

[something_Dark]

If she deserved to go to heaven then he has some inclination towards it. It doesn't make sense to speak the way he did in his previous albums then have lyrics like this in a song. It is contradictive. Period.


what the hell? just cuase he's singing and telling a story about a peice of his own personal life dosent mean you are going to get it!




Daylight dims leaving cold fluorescence.
Difficult to see you in this light.
Please forgive this bold suggestion:
Should you see your Maker's face tonight,
Look Him in the eye, look Him in the eye, and tell Him:
"I never lived a lie, never took a life, but surely saved one.
Hallelujah, its time for you to bring me home."

[ljasonl]

I believe he's singing about being an angel on earth - it seems as if she was a believer. In 10,000 days he goes on to almost cynically demand heaven for her. He's saying "fetch me the spirit, the son and the father" - fetch is derogatory if you're talking about the supreme.

Clearly he's down on it but think his mother deserves heaven in th afterlife - after living here on earth in hell with her dilemna. He also probably saw her faith in that situation and she was angelic in the sense that the faith was present. Believing in that situation does make you an Angel.

I think the lyrics are very smart - the melodies and vocal harmonies are amazing.

What I wanted to say but couldn't think of how to word it

If he believed he would have her being accepted into heaven, not standing at the gates yelling "give me my wings!"
He's saying she fully deserved it, probably more than any other "christian" he knew, but it's just not going to happen. Still, he's happy she's moved out of her state of suffering into what she believed was going to be a better place

[Vegama]

This is good. I am a Christian in that I beleive in Christ and what he did. At the same time I love the crap out of Tool. Why would this be "not ok" ?

I am so into the way Maynard spills his guts out, to hell with pinning him on any religion. As for myself, yes I am a Christian, I listen to Tool, I laugh when he swears at God, it's such a close to home thing for me. I battle with God all the time. Just cause one says they are Christian doesnt mean shit as far as "having it all together".

Truth is. Maynard, Tool, and APC...each one of these help me heal in any situation. What I hear when I listen to certain songs is completely different then what you hear, and I beleive that is what the whole friggin point of Tool is.

There you have it......I love God, I love Jesus and I love the crap outta Tool and their frontman, and you know what. I dont give a damn if that doesnt suit the die hards.


Making fun of sheep...just makes you a sheep who runs with the pack that makes fun of sheep. It's all a circle. All the same.


You're not supposed to expose yourself to any type of profanity, or violence. Do I need to get my bible out?

[Staid]

Well, good for him that he has found religion. Maybe he can help something. But he needs to divert it better than he has publicly. All he ever does it talk about political crap. He needs to get his fanbase involved if he wants my support.

I'm sure Maynard thanks you for telling him what he can do, what he can't do, what he needs to do, and where he needs to do it.

In regards to your monotheism... get well soon.

[something_Dark]

yeah good reply. this song makes me sad and happy at the same time. I like the idea of someone outside the gates of heaven screaming for their wings, I mean isnt that kind of what we all do in our lives? stare at the void of not knowing and scream for freedom and knoledge to stop our very own pain and suffering? kinda like neil youngs knockin on heaven door

[Vegama]

One of the major points of Jesus' ministry was to show that the religion of man is seriously flawwed. This is no hidden secret. "Organized religion" is fubar'd. Jesus knew it, Maynard knows it, and anyone calling themselves a Christian should know it.

I think he just said Maynard is Jesus.

[bigtard]

This is bullshit. He is contradicting his beliefs and needs to decide where he belongs.

Even if it is contradictory, and even if he is a hypocrite, so what? Why does it matter?

[Untamed]

You're not supposed to expose yourself to any type of profanity, or violence. Do I need to get my bible out?

Sorry , this isnt something I side with. Even in ancient Israel there was certainly violence and profanity. Exposing yourself to profanity and violence in no way makes you not "fit" to be a Christian and whoever says that obviously doesnt get the point. How were the early Christians expected to minister to the lost and the wicked? Certainly they were mostly violent and profane.

Being a Christian isnt suppose to cut you off from people who are lost, Christianity gets your heart ready for the profane and the violent. For instance, my heart remains in Christ, even though I am surrounded by hate and violence everyday, I always come home to God.

[Untamed]

I think he just said Maynard is Jesus.



A stretch there, no?

[something_Dark]

Give me my wings!!!!

[khz]

Well, then he needs to say he believes in something than just be hypocritical of everyone else. Why curse other people's God then ask your own to accept your mother when you are in need. Just another example of someone who only needs GOd when they need him and can't handle things themselves.

You're obviously a biblethumper.

Now go rot in your Hell for not only listening to TOOL, but listening to downloaded material that is illegal to do.

Hypocrite.

[Shyfted One]

Give me my wings!!!!

...I just scrolled down and read your post EXACTLY when that line played

[Zarathustra]

Perhaps there is not one true answer to life but there are many. Perhaps christians can see the god they love so much when they die, and maybe other people will see and expirience what they have faith in. Perhaps

[right_in_three]

I think this jbweldon guy should castrate himself. This thread is utter crap. Except for the other people's opinions.

I take that back, basically everything here was an amusing read except for the poster's post.

[Untamed]

You're not supposed to expose yourself to any type of profanity, or violence. Do I need to get my bible out?


I guess a priest who volunteers his services to a local jail to help rehabilitate convicts isnt really a Christian.....

[StaringJunky]

I think in this song mayndard is aknowleding that some people (his mom) believe in things that he doesn't, but to help them you need to adapt and work within the confines of their religion. Ie. he uses words like fetch and doesn't treat god with respect, but he asks for his mother to be sent to heaven, so he is helping her on her terms, christianity.

[right_in_three]

I love all you guys.

[smk4813]

The things he says in this song are what best expresses how he feels about his love for his mother. This song wasn't about his beliefs. You need to rethink your own words.

Here's a bad analogy: If I don't believe in god, but somthing miraculous happened to me, like I got tool tickets to the denver show on may 10th for instance, I might say something like "OMG I can't believe I got these tickets. Thank god my internet connection is so fast." Am I a hipocryte or am I just saying what best suits my emotions?
true true...

I'm an atheist and I say OMG and holy shit and jesus all the time. I say them b/c its the best thing to say for the whats going on at the moment. Good post. I'm glad somebody finally said it.

[mystictigress]

Wow, I don't think this song means that Maynard has found his Christian God and I don't find the lyrics to be hypocritical either. If this song is about his mother as many think it is, it is obvious she was a religious person. He says "give ME my wings", so in my view he is singing the song on her behalf, thus putting himself in her position with her beliefs and ideals.

If that doesn't suit you, then try looking at it the Paradise Lost way.

[drone007]

did i miss something? Did maynard profess his faith or something without me knowing?


One of the most disrespectful things he could've done after his mother died was to continue to badmouth her faith. So, simply and out of respect, this song has some mentioning of her faith in a positive light. There is still some anger here showing when he tells her to demand her wings from the trinity and whatnot. I don't see this song as being maynard's religious beliefs at all.

Come on guys, this is not about maynard, it's about his mom and their connection. Maynard doesn't have to bring his religion or his pride into this at all. his mom died...

you bible thumpers need to just keep listening to tool and draw your own conclusions, but don't call maynard a fucking hypocrit. that's really immature.

[spiralout11235]

Who's to say what Maynard truly believes in, really. Its obvious he believes in the soul and believes in a higher power or being, just listen to Lateralus. Tool, man they have shit figured out for sure. They understand whats going on in the world, they know. They are very informed. LOL at the Rosicrucians comment also. I have had that thought cross my mind that they are in on shit, or sold their souls to the devil ;) haha j/k but they do know of the controlling evils in the world and they are trying to spread a pretty blatant message if you ask me. I mean this album doesnt have 11 tracks for no reason, same with why Lateralus had 13, its all symbology. Also its all how you take it in and analyze it. Lateralus has helped me through a lot of thinking and forks in the road in my life specifically Parabol/a and Lateralis. Those songs have so much meaning and power.

I think Maynard has a lot of problems with religion and how dumb founded and confused the sheeple of the world are. I know that as I grow my views on life and spirituality change. Its all about experience and the evolution of the human consciousness.

Why get hot and bothered if Maynard were to one day say he believes in God, who are you to judge him or claim he's a hypocrite? You should be happy that he has discovered something new and spiritual. I personally believe we are all God, we are consciousness which created earth, the universe everything. All this shit is an illusion, much like The Matrix. We are just plugged into a dream. All this pain is an illusion.

I totally agree with you.

To the creator of this thread: When Maynard makes Biblical references he's often being sarcastic or using them metaphorically. You can talk about something and not believe in it. I can argue with a Christian about the existence of God and mention God, but that doesn't mean I believe in him. In this song I feel Maynard is just exonerating his Mother's beliefs and showing how he feels about them with his sarcastic tone and referencing.

But Illuminus has pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[Tw1ster]

Maybe MJK had an awakening when his mom died..instead of believing shes rotting in the ground, religion gives him belief that shes in a better place...you tell me what is better becuase I sure as hell a death so close to him would change his outlook.

[evrenseven]

I think Maynard was speaking for his mother... especially from the intonation of his voice when he says "give me my wings!" It's as if he's saying, "Mother, you can DEMAND your wings now, as your beliefs have driven you your whole life."



In Aenima Maynard's lyrics are blasphemous. All he does use bad lyrics about God and Jesus. He never says anything good about religion. Then all of a sudden his mother dies and he decides to write lyrics to a song about her "getting her wings" as an angel. This is bullshit. He is contradicting his beliefs and needs to decide where he belongs. You can't commit sins like using God's name in vain and then ask for your mother to be angel. He needs to rethink his lyrics.

[tgist2]

Ignorant fibbers in the congregation,
Gather around spewing sympathy,
Spare me.

Those are his opinions of "organized" Christianity.

Pretty straightforward. This song is about his desire to see his mother get what she put her whole life toward, like any son would want to see happen to his mother. Be at peace with what you have done, I love you no matter what, and this is how I am expressing this to you.

Couldn't have said it better or so concisely.

[Topher]

Danny Carey is my God

[Ancalagon]

"Ignorant fibbers in the congregation,
Gather around spewing sympathy,
Spare me.

Those are his opinions of "organized" Christianity.

Pretty straightforward. This song is about his desire to see his mother get what she put her whole life toward, like any son would want to see happen to his mother. Be at peace with what you have done, I love you no matter what, and this is how I am expressing this to you."

Whoever said that said it exactly right. I can relate because I have a mom who is a devout Christian, too. Very powerful feelings there, even if you don't believe.

[MarcDrums]

You're not supposed to expose yourself to any type of profanity, or violence. Do I need to get my bible out?
you're not supposed to worship any violence or profanity over god..

[tsohnen]

I think what must be understood is that Maynard has nothing to prove to us as fans. Essentially, we are simply fans of all that Tool has done...not what they can potentially do. The fact is that, we've watched/heard the evolution of the band, and if he were to find god, then that is his own personal evolution which it is noboby's place to judge. The "Blasphemous" lyrics that were in Aenima were a picture of a mindstate as a person and artist that he was at the time. One can't blame him for using a word or phrase that is religious to create the picture that he wants to paint.

[auto-de-fe]

Maybe this was posted; maybe it was not. I do have training in this field, but I think MJK should be allowed to speak for himself:

"Long time ago some people had some moments of clarity and kind of wrote down their concepts or went and talked about them. Concepts having to do with unity, evolving thoughts, choosing compassion over fear, things like that. All kinds of people; Gandhi, Buddha, Krishna, Christ, Mohammed. Those are pretty cool ideas, but then what happened was a bunch of guys who wanted to make a buck got involved and fucked it all up. Never trust an agent. Never trust an agent. They'll fuck up it all."
1997.03.01 - Poughkeepsie, NY, USA @ Mid Hudson Civic Center

[auto-de-fe]

And as for "the MJK inspire your fans to do something to make the world a better place" comment:

"Thank you very much. Thank you very much for sharing this moment with us. We're hoping that you will remember this moment, remember this feeling that you've had. Remember this experience and in the coming weeks, the coming months, the coming years use this experience, good or bad, to create something positive."
2002.05.13 - London, England @ Brixton Academy

[zoomster]

jbweldon04: i tend to refrain from posting negative thoughts, but your ideas were so idiotic and far-fetched. It's ok to accept you were wrong and to consider other points of view. You're so close minded to your own interpretation that you neglect to see the logical progression of Maynard's thoughts on this subject
.
Several of you have nailed it pretty well here based on good information gathered from various songs.

This song is amazing.

[geert]

You aren't a fan. Don't even try to pretend. Maynard is first and foremost the LEAST hypocritical frontman I've ever listened to. SO basically, your a moron.
i totally agree
If there is one frontman who is the least hypocrit of them all, then it's maynard.

He should listen closer to the lyrics... (and not always interpretate them litterally)


(ps: sry for my sloppy english)

[Physt]

If any of you have the A motion DVD please watch it and pay attention, Growing up maynard witnissed a church betrayal worthy of judas when his mother stroked...Fake well wishers talking behind her back and such...This song clearly states that Judith Marie is worth more than that "collective judas"...

[IAMNOTBENLEIGHTON]

In Aenima Maynard's lyrics are blasphemous. All he does use bad lyrics about God and Jesus. He never says anything good about religion. Then all of a sudden his mother dies and he decides to write lyrics to a song about her "getting her wings" as an angel. This is bullshit. He is contradicting his beliefs and needs to decide where he belongs. You can't commit sins like using God's name in vain and then ask for your mother to be angel. He needs to rethink his lyrics.

You are an actual fucking Tool fan right? I could go into such a big rant at how wrong you are but it's not fucking worth it. Lick my balls.

[kether4602]

*sigh* jbweldon.......please, stop listening to this music. I can respect that people are entitled to their own opinion, but sometimes certain people are incapable of thinking differently(im looking at you). This music and its subject matter is not for those who practice linear thinking. Perhaps I can suggest some new music for you? Linkin Park? Good Charlotte?

[kether4602]

^
|
|
|
He makes it pretty clear. Hopefully that solves everything for you jb...

[Anr149]

yeah yeah jb man you are the epitome of the people maynard pokes fun at and the people that disgust him

[etc43]

I don't know about anyone else here, but IMO, "10,000 Days" > "Judith." By quite a large margin, too.

[Apeman]

was his mother not pious? even if he doesnt have a supposed belief in god it could be written through the thought patterns of his mother if thats what its about.

[creativeschism]

Think outside the box. He's not going to spoonfeed you.

Exactly!!!

[optimistic-pessimist]

Lots to comment on here...

jbweldon04, you have failed. abandon this name and re-register. just start over man. just start over.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=metaphor
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=allusion
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=allegory
I'm sure Maynard thanks you for telling him what he can do, what he can't do, what he needs to do, and where he needs to do it.

In regards to your monotheism... get well soon.

^ All of this made me laugh out loud... very loudly... at work. Thanks for that.

Maybe this was posted; maybe it was not. I do have training in this field, but I think MJK should be allowed to speak for himself:

"Long time ago some people had some moments of clarity and kind of wrote down their concepts or went and talked about them. Concepts having to do with unity, evolving thoughts, choosing compassion over fear, things like that. All kinds of people; Gandhi, Buddha, Krishna, Christ, Mohammed. Those are pretty cool ideas, but then what happened was a bunch of guys who wanted to make a buck got involved and fucked it all up. Never trust an agent. Never trust an agent. They'll fuck up it all."
1997.03.01 - Poughkeepsie, NY, USA @ Mid Hudson Civic Center


^This was the first thing I thought about when I read the first post. Glad someone else was on top of it.


T00l Dude was close, but got the lyrics wrong a little and failed to mention some very important things.

Let me lay it all out in simple terms for the rest of you. It's pretty easy. Pretty logical. I don't see where all the confusion is coming from.....


Agreed... best post of the thread. Well done xmorteferoz

[UrQuattro]

umm... have any of you lost a parent? i just lost my dad in november. i can tell you from first hand experience... it fucks with your belief system...he is eulogizing his mother... it's poetry... it's not quite as literal as it might initially sound... he is speaking to the nature of her character, not what is actually supposed to be happening...

[Orph8998]

we are more complex than religion now
it is in out control...its not hypocritical

[tcM_Emperor]

Even if he has become religious, do you know how long ago Aenima was? Do you really think people are incapable of changing over a decade's time?

[Orph8998]

people are mad maynard told them to feel one thing...and now he changed his mind

[Ancalagon]

Well, those people need to grow up and take a mature view of it, much like Maynard has.

[zoomster]

people are mad maynard told them to feel one thing...and now he changed his mind

very nice.. i like how you put this.

[themayanlion]

it's like the lyric "YOU are the only one who can hold your head up high, shake your fists at the gates, saying..."prefacing all the ''give me my wings" bit completely went over his head.

i mean besides also saying he does not believe in her god, and even says he'll be burning with the believers, he just hopes she's right for her own sake. that if there is a heaven, she deserves to go more than anyone, because she's his fucking mother.

i mean it is really not that hard to figure out.

everyone likes to look for 3 hidden meanings in every sentence, but like they say, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

just because he may not believe in Christianity, that doesn't make him a hypocrit for saying his mom does, or wanting her to be right for her own sake.

i mean hell if you still need hidden meanings, "I never lived a lie, never took a life
But surely saved one", he's further saying he doesn't need her God because his salvation was through her, not him.

i don't believe in the Christian religion myself, while my mom is a very strict and very devout Catholic. and when she dies, i hope she goes to heaven, because her faith is so strong i almost want it to be real just for her. you can respect the beliefs of someone else without compromising your own.

especially when all the goddamn positive christian references in there are him speaking for his mother, and not himself.

honestly, just use a little common sense.

[varg]

In Aenima Maynard's lyrics are blasphemous. All he does use bad lyrics about God and Jesus. He never says anything good about religion. Then all of a sudden his mother dies and he decides to write lyrics to a song about her "getting her wings" as an angel. This is bullshit. He is contradicting his beliefs and needs to decide where he belongs. You can't commit sins like using God's name in vain and then ask for your mother to be angel. He needs to rethink his lyrics.


You sir, are an idiot.

[EvilDoR]

In Aenima Maynard's lyrics are blasphemous. All he does use bad lyrics about God and Jesus. He never says anything good about religion. Then all of a sudden his mother dies and he decides to write lyrics to a song about her "getting her wings" as an angel. This is bullshit. He is contradicting his beliefs and needs to decide where he belongs. You can't commit sins like using God's name in vain and then ask for your mother to be angel. He needs to rethink his lyrics.


Your interpretation of his lyrics are way off. He is saying, mom you have worshipped, obeyed and lived as your GOD requires to get into "heaven". He has witnessed it with his own eyes. He is telling her, if your GOD is the way then when she gets there shes deserves to be an angel because of how devoted she was to GOD. She never compromsed her beliefs when it came to her GOD in his eyes.

[right_in_three]

Are people still giving this guy crap for his stupid statments? I love it.

Weclome to TDN.

[Nietzsche's Dead]

worst. fucking. first. post. ever.
.

[Tone Loc]

If she deserved to go to heaven then he has some inclination towards it. It doesn't make sense to speak the way he did in his previous albums then have lyrics like this in a song. It is contradictive. Period.

Wow. Talk about someone with a complete lack of understanding about what this song means. If you think this song is anything *but* hostile toward Christianity, you need to have another listen.

[Tone Loc]

The lyrics on this whole album makes me think that he found religion through his mother's passing. He is sorry for ignoring the message earlier and wants to be forgiven by everyone and God as well. He wants to start over and make his message mean something. Or he could write all this for more attention I don't know.

Are you serious?

[monkeythumbs]

wow.

[Wingedson]

In Aenima Maynard's lyrics are blasphemous. All he does use bad lyrics about God and Jesus. He never says anything good about religion. Then all of a sudden his mother dies and he decides to write lyrics to a song about her "getting her wings" as an angel. This is bullshit. He is contradicting his beliefs and needs to decide where he belongs. You can't commit sins like using God's name in vain and then ask for your mother to be angel. He needs to rethink his lyrics.


Funny post. Possibly Aenima is Maynards way of talking about organized religion and the bullshit and lies they perpetuate...All the secrets of humanities birthright hidden away in their "holy" writ and ceremony. Maynard is an Occultist at the Rocky Mountain Mystery School, he is a practioner of sacred arts that lead one on the path to commune with their Higher Purpose, and the different aspects of the creator. Also, if you look at the progession of Tool albums you can watch Maynard grow. The beginnings in Opiate are very angry, very drugged, and very volatile...Undertow he is struggling with so many questions and life choices.....Aenima he seems to have found some alternative paths to walk that seem to serve a different viewpoint and purpose than anything before...their concert stage's change dramatically with enochian tablets in the background and lyrics exploring the mystical works of Carl Jung, Alchemy, Magic, etc. The change from then on out is quite obvious in Lateralus and now 10,000 Days.

[shorabali]

Who's to say what Maynard truly believes in, really. Its obvious he believes in the soul and believes in a higher power or being, just listen to Lateralus. Tool, man they have shit figured out for sure. They understand whats going on in the world, they know. They are very informed. LOL at the Rosicrucians comment also. I have had that thought cross my mind that they are in on shit, or sold their souls to the devil ;) haha j/k but they do know of the controlling evils in the world and they are trying to spread a pretty blatant message if you ask me. I mean this album doesnt have 11 tracks for no reason, same with why Lateralus had 13, its all symbology. Also its all how you take it in and analyze it. Lateralus has helped me through a lot of thinking and forks in the road in my life specifically Parabol/a and Lateralis. Those songs have so much meaning and power.

I think Maynard has a lot of problems with religion and how dumb founded and confused the sheeple of the world are. I know that as I grow my views on life and spirituality change. Its all about experience and the evolution of the human consciousness.

Why get hot and bothered if Maynard were to one day say he believes in God, who are you to judge him or claim he's a hypocrite? You should be happy that he has discovered something new and spiritual. I personally believe we are all God, we are consciousness which created earth, the universe everything. All this shit is an illusion, much like The Matrix. We are just plugged into a dream. All this pain is an illusion.


You remind me of me 2 years ago. Keep it up man.

[auto-de-fe]

people are mad maynard told them to feel one thing...and now he changed his mind

Maynard tells you what to believe?

[molehill]

Well someone has to. I'm incapable of making my own decisions. :/

[Sagacious Foetu]

In Aenima Maynard's lyrics are blasphemous. All he does use bad lyrics about God and Jesus. He never says anything good about religion. Then all of a sudden his mother dies and he decides to write lyrics to a song about her "getting her wings" as an angel. This is bullshit. He is contradicting his beliefs and needs to decide where he belongs. You can't commit sins like using God's name in vain and then ask for your mother to be angel. He needs to rethink his lyrics.
YOU'RE a fucking tool. get outta here, idiot.

[ShtAssFu]

Hahaha this is good.... his mother was the Religious one. Maybe this is why he isn't. But thats not the point. she was and he is almost speaking for her/through him.

[right_in_three]

Lets see if we can get 10 pages of us bashing this guy.

[seneca77]

absolutely nutso man!! he is saying he hopes his mother recieves all that SHE belived in because she deserves it. he is saying he will be burning in hell and he hopes she is at the "gates" of heaven. its a fable that he does not believe, but for her sake, hopes she is right.

[mountain_goat]

[QUOTE=jbweldon04] He is contradicting his beliefs and needs to decide where he belongs. [QUOTE]

No one needs to decide anything, and certainly not because you say so.

[jessicajessjessica]

my thought:
* i think maynard's mild reference to christianity is not a belief in it, but rather a paid respect to his mother's own faith. Which as tool fans, i think we ought to respect maynard's own views, seeing as we buy the albums and bullshit on about them on forums, so instead of calling maynard a hypocrite, some should realise that its not your beliefs maynard is talking about, nor his own, but his mothers. Its his own self expression, just leave it at that and move on.

[moisty]

"Oh so many ways for me to show you
How the savior has abandoned you
Fuck your God
Your Lord and your Christ
He did this
Took all you had and
Left you this way
Still you pray, you never stray
Never taste of the fruit
You never thought to question why "

You are right he never said anything bad about God


I don't think that Maynard is speaking bad of god at all in this song, only the rules placed on this particular 'gods' followers. He never says directly that god is anything, only that it sucks you need to fulfill all these prerequisites before you can truely believe. Which seems to me that he is more directing it toward a particular religon. As well, the word 'god' is a variable, which god are you talking about and which god do you think maynard talks about, and in what way does he curse that god, and for what reason?

[ladiatia]

The song is about his mother. She believed so bad in God. After 27 suffering she died. Now Maynard says something like: Hey you fucker, where are the wings for my mom, she believed in you all her live and you give her nothing. Fuck you!
oh.. well, maybe no...I dunno

SALUD!

[UrQuattro]

i can NOT believe that you all are so fucking scared that he just MIGHT have a few spiritual beliefs, or that maybe just maybe he is becoming more religious/spiritual in life... what, exactly is it about him being spiritual do you find that terrifying? do you lose faith in this guy because he might have found some faith? do you lose faith in yourself because you've been pushed around by 'rev.' maynard that you dont know what to think anymore because he has grown and changed over time, and didnt let you know about it, except in his lyrics??? (oh, wait...) it's freaking amazing to me... if you guys have listened to him up until now,, why in the fuck would you get up in his shit when his MOTHER DIES, and he decides to use spiritual allusions to pound out a highly effectual message that is obviously personal to him? you people be insecure...

[girlwiththesuninherhead]

In Aenima Maynard's lyrics are blasphemous. All he does use bad lyrics about God and Jesus. He never says anything good about religion. Then all of a sudden his mother dies and he decides to write lyrics to a song about her "getting her wings" as an angel. This is bullshit. He is contradicting his beliefs and needs to decide where he belongs. You can't commit sins like using God's name in vain and then ask for your mother to be angel. He needs to rethink his lyrics.
I don't think he's saying that he believes in god exactly. Quite obviously, his mother did... and he thinks she deserves wings, but if he were really christian you know he wouldn't expect that she would become an angel because that is not normally what would happen once one dies... so I don't think that's what he's saying at all really. It's a song about her passing and obviously he is incorporating her own views into this song with her asking at the gates etc. I don't think he's relenting on his own stance...

[kaiowas_is]

wow you people can talk some absolute shit sometimes. A alot of the time when Maynard refers to "God" he's not referring to just christianity it usually reflects "your god"

[PrisonSex]

To me, it's about Maynard's hope that his mother receives what she's been striving and hoping for her entire life. Although he may not agree with her beleifs, it's his mother who he's seen suffer nearly his entire life, yet she still remains faithful and never mad at her 'god' for what happened to her. He loves her and admires her dedication, and wants her to finally get what she's been dedicated to her whole life.

I definitely don't see this as Maynard being hypocritical. I don't take it as him being religious and truly beleiving in god or heaven..but for his mother's sake, he hopes that maybe there is a heaven-like place for her, even if it means Maynard being wrong in his own beleifs his entire life. It shows the ultimate love for his mother. I don't see how anyone could really take this song as being about Maynard's own personal beleifs.

[mphellrazor]

there is a fine line between being a hypocrite and allowing life to lead you where it will. I welcome the day when I begin to find myself becoming hypocritical of what i held dear to me in the past.


shows ive been paying attention.

[UrQuattro]

umm... that isnt being hypocritical... growing and changing over time is not even close to it. it hypocritical in this case would be changing, but preaching the same old stuff that you no longer believe in, and then living by a different set of rules than you project yourself to live by. even if maynard were to come out tomorrow as a born again christian (shit, didnt he already, last april? heh), if he were true to himself and be consistent with himself in his words, then there would still be no hypocrisy..

here is the denotation of hypocrisy: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

do you see any growth of one's beliefs being even implicitly verboten in that definition?

[jbweldon04]

Fuck it. Ya'll have complete bashed me too much. Ya'll win, I was wrong. Please stop BASHING ME. Not everyone is you.

[optimistic-pessimist]

Fuck it. Ya'll have complete bashed me too much. Ya'll win, I was wrong. Please stop BASHING ME. Not everyone is you.

I'm amazed you came back.

But seriously, most of Maynard's lyrics CAN NOT be taken at face value. It takes a wider perspective and often a sense of humor to truly appreciate and understand what's trying to be said. I'm not sure how long you've been listening to TOOL, but I'd suggest going back and reading some more of the opinion forums. You might get some better insight into what these songs are about.

[Orph8998]

i figure its about time this things gets shut down...
im not going to blame jbweldon04, im going to blame adam jones
if his guitaring wasnt so childish...then tool wouldnt have such stupid fans
so...i blame adam

[optimistic-pessimist]

i figure its about time this things gets shut down...
im not going to blame jbweldon04, im going to blame adam jones
if his guitaring wasnt so childish...then tool wouldnt have such stupid fans
so...i blame adam

Is "guitaring" a word? That's an excellent grasp of the english language you've got there.

[Orph8998]

hey, Poe made up a few words

[optimistic-pessimist]

hey, Poe made up a few words

Haha... so did Lewis Carroll... but this isn't poetry or novel writing.

But it's all in good fun.

[evolvedb4u]

i would be upset if my mother died, especially in a painful way. To watch her keep truckin', crucifix at her side, I would say, "if ANYONE gets in those gates, its her". A rather cave man response, sorry everyone. Song writers write songs from...emotions! Wowzers, go figure. We purchase these albums for the music and language in this case...other wise we would be wearing GodSmack T-Shirts. Maynards use of controversial "words" to some belief systems doesn't mean that the april fools 05 prank was real!!
This is a very personal and actually sad song.
Know one knows if he would pleade and argue with her bed side about her God and his except them two. I personally feel after a few in depth listens that its his closure w/ his mothers death and her strong religous convictions.

[macfreak]

In Aenima Maynard's lyrics are blasphemous. All he does use bad lyrics about God and Jesus. He never says anything good about religion. Then all of a sudden his mother dies and he decides to write lyrics to a song about her "getting her wings" as an angel. This is bullshit. He is contradicting his beliefs and needs to decide where he belongs. You can't commit sins like using God's name in vain and then ask for your mother to be angel. He needs to rethink his lyrics.
haha...whats wrong with you?

[jbweldon04]

i figure its about time this things gets shut down...
im not going to blame jbweldon04, im going to blame adam jones
if his guitaring wasnt so childish...then tool wouldnt have such stupid fans
so...i blame adam
Hey why do you have to be so rude. It's pathetic that you write bad about people on forums. I'm sorry I don't show your perspective in life, but that isn't reason enough to ridicule me the way you are. If I'm so stupid then why am I at the University of Texas earning a bachelor's degree? I assure you I'm not stupid and that I do take things literally, but that's my personality. But that, again, doesn't give you the right to ridicule me the way you do. I've been listening to Tool since the mid 1990's. I've prided myself in that I am a "tool enthusiast". I just didn't always like what Maynard had to say.

[monkeythumbs]

so you liked the old music and listened to (and probably sang along with) the blaspheme?

now you are judging him for even thinking there is a possibility and slight chance he might have been wrong. or at the very least he feels his mother is deserving of such a place IF it exists?

you sir are a hypocrite.

God would rather you be hot or cold.

you are luke warm.

pray for forgiveness.

[optimistic-pessimist]

Hey why do you have to be so rude. It's pathetic that you write bad about people on forums. I'm sorry I don't show your perspective in life, but that isn't reason enough to ridicule me the way you are. If I'm so stupid then why am I at the University of Texas earning a bachelor's degree? I assure you I'm not stupid and that I do take things literally, but that's my personality. But that, again, doesn't give you the right to ridicule me the way you do. I've been listening to Tool since the mid 1990's. I've prided myself in that I am a "tool enthusiast". I just didn't always like what Maynard had to say.


I found out pretty quickly that if you take Maynard's lyrics literally, you're really missing out. "Hooker with a Penis" ??? Come on... you really think that song's about a transvestite whore?

"Aenema"...
"I wanna see the ground give way. I wanna watch it all go down."

He's not LITERALLY calling for armageddon and the end of the world. Shit he says it right there in the song...

"Don't just call me pessimist. Try and read between the lines."

That statement pretty much goes for ANYTHING he writes... to generalize a little. Just open yourself up a little bit and accept that there is more to these songs than you might initially think. That's one of the main things that draws me, and many others, to TOOL's music.

[Pårȃđīǥm]

Tool is famous for their music, not their lyrics.
that's one of the most misinformed things i've ever heard anyone say...

[cscottj]

If he is a hypocrite that makes you a pussy, dont ax me why that's just how it go.

[CrownOfNegativity]

Maynard is saying your God, not God in general.
.

[moisty]

Guys, seriously, when it comes down to it, jbweldon04 is voiceing his own personal opinion, Which you may not aggree with, but you should definately respect jbweldon04 for his views, his individual thoughts (which is what we all are, individuals). Think if everyone had the same views and opinions as the next guy what a boring life we'd lead. Keep it up jbweldon04, think for yourself and be proud of what you believe, it makes for a good discussion.

[elburritobandito]

Guys, seriously, when it comes down to it, jbweldon04 is voiceing his own personal opinion, Which you may not aggree with, but you should definately respect jbweldon04 for his views, his individual thoughts (which is what we all are, individuals). Think if everyone had the same views and opinions as the next guy what a boring life we'd lead. Keep it up jbweldon04, think for yourself and be proud of what you believe, it makes for a good discussion.


Well put. Agree, disagree.. but stop acting like 6-year olds.

That said, why is anything about this song hypocritical? I dont really think it is a "My mommy went to heaven" song as much as it is a "My mother had a firm belief structure that i may not share but respect becuase she lived her life based on those beliefs and was not a hypocrite" song.

Some people have said that Judith and this track are contradictory.. I dont buy it. Judith seemed to be about being irritated and frustrated and confused by her unyielding faith, even when faced with a situation that would make most people question their beliefs and despair.

10K Days is about the same thing, but from a place of understanding and love. Restating the same basic idea but in this case portraying it as a virtue.. and instead projecting the frustration/anger this time towards other people who claim to share the same values but dont live up to thier convictions.

Songs arent usually cemented down statements or communications about how the listener should live. You can feel "judith" about someone you love and feel "10K Days" about the same person at a different time without being a hypocrite.. you are just feeling differently about the same thing at different times.. and if everyone who does that is a hypocrite, then i will venture that we all are guilty... that or you are completely robotic in your thought process.

thoughts?

or i guess you can tell me that i suck if you dont agree ifthats your style.

[Orph8998]

Hey why do you have to be so rude. It's pathetic that you write bad about people on forums. I'm sorry I don't show your perspective in life, but that isn't reason enough to ridicule me the way you are. If I'm so stupid then why am I at the University of Texas earning a bachelor's degree? I assure you I'm not stupid and that I do take things literally, but that's my personality. But that, again, doesn't give you the right to ridicule me the way you do. I've been listening to Tool since the mid 1990's. I've prided myself in that I am a "tool enthusiast". I just didn't always like what Maynard had to say.

and im 17 and have been listening to tool since i heard 46&2 on the radio. I dont get what you are trying to say.

[jbweldon04]

"im going to blame adam jones
if his guitaring wasnt so childish...then tool wouldnt have such stupid fans
so...i blame adam"

You are caling me a stupid fan. My point was I'm not stupid and you shouldn't be rude just becuase I don't think like you. That was my point.

[Orph8998]

"im going to blame adam jones
if his guitaring wasnt so childish...then tool wouldnt have such stupid fans
so...i blame adam"

You are caling me a stupid fan. My point was I'm not stupid and you shouldn't be rude just becuase I don't think like you. That was my point.

hmmm
this point isnt working for me
lets try another one!

[optimistic-pessimist]

Well put. Agree, disagree.. but stop acting like 6-year olds.

That said, why is anything about this song hypocritical? I dont really think it is a "My mommy went to heaven" song as much as it is a "My mother had a firm belief structure that i may not share but respect becuase she lived her life based on those beliefs and was not a hypocrite" song.

Some people have said that Judith and this track are contradictory.. I dont buy it. Judith seemed to be about being irritated and frustrated and confused by her unyielding faith, even when faced with a situation that would make most people question their beliefs and despair.

10K Days is about the same thing, but from a place of understanding and love. Restating the same basic idea but in this case portraying it as a virtue.. and instead projecting the frustration/anger this time towards other people who claim to share the same values but dont live up to thier convictions.

Songs arent usually cemented down statements or communications about how the listener should live. You can feel "judith" about someone you love and feel "10K Days" about the same person at a different time without being a hypocrite.. you are just feeling differently about the same thing at different times.. and if everyone who does that is a hypocrite, then i will venture that we all are guilty... that or you are completely robotic in your thought process.

thoughts?

or i guess you can tell me that i suck if you dont agree ifthats your style.


No this is a damn good post. Very well done, my friend.

And I agree that having a difference of opinion is everyone's right, and is important, etc... But anyone who has really read into the interviews, live concert comments, and the influences behind TOOL's music would probably agree that maybe a little more research could/should have been done before starting a thread like this. It's just a bit misinformed is all.

[caliphornia]

who ever said that maynard is speaking of religion in this song? he could be using words as metaphors as he often does. no need for jumping to conclusions seeing as how mayard is the only one who knows what he was talking about.

[k~nug]

I don't see any contradiction in any of the lyrics, or even his few interviews mentioning God.

Not once in 10,000 days did I get the impression that he believes in Jesus and wants to be saved...I am an athiest, and my mother still hangs on to her christian beliefs, even though she has lost her brother, her husband, (my dad) and her son (brother) all under the age of 27, and she's had cancer twice. I can relate to the thinking 'god, i don't believe in you but you but my mom put up with enough of your shit that better hook my mother up when she gets to heaven, you son of a bitch'. I'm not saying thats how Maynard feels, but it is one of the interpretations I take away from the song. I know it probably doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense to me either, but it's how I feel.

[Orph8998]

its cute how the christians can warp the lyrics to fit to their dogmas
and the heathens can warp the lyrics to fit their dogmas



almost as if it where ment to be like that!?!

[UrQuattro]

'tis the ambiguity of music in general... it can always be twisted if someone wants to try hard enough...

[something_Dark]

...I just scrolled down and read your post EXACTLY when that line played


Whoa... o.O

[litwallchmerk]

This is precious.

[auto-de-fe]

No this is a damn good post. Very well done, my friend.

And I agree that having a difference of opinion is everyone's right, and is important, etc... But anyone who has really read into the interviews, live concert comments, and the influences behind TOOL's music would probably agree that maybe a little more research could/should have been done before starting a thread like this. It's just a bit misinformed is all.

I agree with you. This thread was a misinformed thread which is why we should seek to elucidate the answers. We should not seek to poke fun of each other. I believe all this bashing is just a bit trite and trivial.

[paraflux]

Towards jbweldon04: *sighs* Maynard is not talking about his own beliefs in this song, you fucktard.
probed

[paraflux]

You sir, are an idiot.
*sigh*

[paraflux]

YOU'RE a fucking tool. get outta here, idiot.
mm-hmm

[Cemetery Shindig]

Hey why do you have to be so rude. It's pathetic that you write bad about people on forums. I'm sorry I don't show your perspective in life, but that isn't reason enough to ridicule me the way you are. If I'm so stupid then why am I at the University of Texas earning a bachelor's degree? I assure you I'm not stupid and that I do take things literally, but that's my personality. But that, again, doesn't give you the right to ridicule me the way you do. I've been listening to Tool since the mid 1990's. I've prided myself in that I am a "tool enthusiast". I just didn't always like what Maynard had to say.

1) Learn to speak english.
2) When this many people tell you you're wrong and nobody's telling you otherwise, you're wrong.
3) Learn to speak english.

[paraflux]

1) Learn to speak english.
2) When this many people tell you you're wrong and nobody's telling you otherwise, you're wrong.
3) Learn to speak english.
What the fuck is so wrong with you people? I dont understand this hostility. You wouldnt act like this if you were meeting in person and you are all just hiding behind your computer keyboards, releasing all of the hostility that has been unleashed upon you because you cant stand up for yourself in real life. Thread locked.