Bush is a moron.

[osiris]

You don't have to agree with me...but hear me out. gimme feedback.

You may have already read some of my anti Bush stuff....But let me restate the fact that WAR IS STUPID. I can take one of two stances on it. A) the positive one: we do not evolve through violence. ~or~ B) the negative one:War is good...less people to bother me.
I tend to think more towards A.

I am waiting for FOXNEWS 2 to come out...it's going to be a station that airs war footage 24-7. It will be a govt. sponsored station, just call your cable company up and ask for it...The White House will send you a free six pack and some raw meat. I can't wait! There will be more ignorant fat drunken "americans" who don't give a shit about anything except themselves. THIS IS NOT ADVACEMENT....

I mean, I really don't think Bush is the answer to anything. He is responsible for ignorance under the disguise of "nationalism". Please I beg everyone to NOT vote for him...My prediction for the future: When (if)he runs again he will say he lead us through the "War on Terrorism" and won...
Jesus Christ! I cannot stand the current state of this nation.
Please someone tell me that I am not the only one... I cannot believe that we are justifying this war....fuck I am really speechless. sigh...

[diogenes]

I think when you're dealing with people entrenched in their ideologies, that you shouldn't try to preach morals, but appeal to their common sense, by saying that the war isn't profitable for the US in the long run.
I think you might get dumped on for saying that...meh

;)

[marcus]

Originally posted by osiris
You don't have to agree with me...but hear me out. gimme feedback.

You may have already read some of my anti Bush stuff....But let me restate the fact that WAR IS STUPID. I can take one of two stances on it. A) the positive one: we do not evolve through violence. ~or~ B) the negative one:War is good...less people to bother me.
I tend to think more towards A.

Kurt Vonnegut wrote being anti-war is as about as useful as being anti-glacier as you won't stop either. War may be stupid but so are most people. In an ideal world we would spend the money we do on war on food, clothing, education, etcetera. However people, in general, want more than they need and will not hesitate to take what others need to satiate their desires. As of late we have made huge piles of money that a few people feel they can take as much as they wish without really hurting anyone else(ENRON comes to mind),but, in reality they have crippled thousands of people for their own advancement(?). That is why there is war and why as long as there is human nature there always will be war.

[osiris]

Very true. Both of you.

I was watching CNN this morning and I think I heard something about we now have all of the oil fields in the west (or south) and are going for the fields in the south(or west)
I thought this war wasn't about oil...it's about "defense" and freedom. Did anyone hear what Bush said a few nights ago? The second line in the speech was about not touching the oil because it belongs to the Iraqi people!

I am ranting and raving over nothing. This may not help anything but it does give me peace of mind. I only wish we (human race) would stop being so damn stupid. oh well...I'm sick of the way of things...so sick I don't really take action anymore. I'm now an armchair hippy! lol...

[aeonblue]

I don't know anything about the political reasons in this war, but i only know that this war IS stupid. I was in an anti-war demonstration today, it may not help to stop the war but at least people express their opinion about this! There were over 10,000 people there which was quite well, because i live in a small town, and the atmosphere was fantastic... only there was some stupid racist asshole who came to mock all the iraqi people in our party, but one man wasn't enough to bring us down...

[4th Eye]

but i only know that this war IS stupid.

Wars are stupid usually. The Iraq war might be even more stupid (and I think it is) than the other ones (meaning world wars and stuff)...

There will be more ignorant fat drunken "americans" who don't give a shit about anything except themselves.

I'm not american nor i'm fat (i'm drunk though but I still give a shit about other stuff and other people...I have empathy!) but I am ignorant about this war. I am so sick of it!!! I hate it!!!! And if someone's saying "ignorance breeds hate" then so be it. I now hate everything about Iraq war. There's nothing but that "US bombing Iraq"-stuff...Media has made me ignorant. Every newspaper, every news comin' from TV or radio is just about Iraq. Fuck you Bush! Fuck you Hussein! Go take a duel to death and kill yourselves...Take Tony Blair and other fuckin' morons with you and hang yourselves!

And what can we do about this war situation? Not a fucking thing! I won't go to any protests or anything because I think it does nothing to change Bush's or anyone's mind. There will be wars in the future and we, citizens and 'normal' people, can't do a thing. If any of you feel better when protesting then do what you like. If it gives you peace of mind that's good for you. What gives me peace of mind is not thinking about it. Ignorance is good sometimes...

I've lost all faith to politics long time ago. Fuckin' smiley-gladhans...

[RiceKrispies85]

Originally posted by aeonblue
I don't know anything about the political reasons in this war, but i only know that this war IS stupid. I was in an anti-war demonstration today, it may not help to stop the war but at least people express their opinion about this! There were over 10,000 people there which was quite well, because i live in a small town, and the atmosphere was fantastic... only there was some stupid racist asshole who came to mock all the iraqi people in our party, but one man wasn't enough to bring us down...

If you don't know anything about the reasons for this war, then what in the fuck are you doing protesting?

[RiceKrispies85]

Originally posted by osiris
Very true. Both of you.

I was watching CNN this morning and I think I heard something about we now have all of the oil fields in the west (or south) and are going for the fields in the south(or west)
I thought this war wasn't about oil...it's about "defense" and freedom. Did anyone hear what Bush said a few nights ago? The second line in the speech was about not touching the oil because it belongs to the Iraqi people!

I am ranting and raving over nothing. This may not help anything but it does give me peace of mind. I only wish we (human race) would stop being so damn stupid. oh well...I'm sick of the way of things...so sick I don't really take action anymore. I'm now an armchair hippy! lol...

keep in mind that it IS possible that the reason to take the oil fields is so that they aren't burned later. The Iraqi military has set some ablaze already, even though Saddam Hussein stated that this would not be done. I'm not saying that the US isn't taking them for themselves, but i am saying that that isn't the only possibility, and at this point no one knows. Just remember that should the oil fields be left until the end, they would simply be burned.

[osiris]

Originally posted by RiceKrispies85
keep in mind that it IS possible that the reason to take the oil fields is so that they aren't burned later. The Iraqi military has set some ablaze already, even though Saddam Hussein stated that this would not be done. I'm not saying that the US isn't taking them for themselves, but i am saying that that isn't the only possibility, and at this point no one knows. Just remember that should the oil fields be left until the end, they would simply be burned.


Oh no! Don't burn OUR precious oil!

Seriously...it's not like anyone in office gives a shit about the environment OR "saving" the oil for the Iraqi people (which the PEOPLE don't actually own themselves). And I don't think burning oil is a health hazard for any of our troops, it's not hard to stay away from fire so you don't get burned. What other reason is there to save the oil?

Have you noticed the stocks as of 12:30 today??? EVERYTHING was down EXCEPT for crude oil and natural gas.
So this isn't a war for oil? I really dont think so. There are no other reasons for saving the oil from burning. If someone really wanted Iraqi freedom, they would let it burn, if someone was interested in protecting human rights they would visit Libya, if someone wanted to protect "der homeland" that someone would start going after North Korea or various domestic issues. Please don't be so naive to think there are other reasons, I mean I highly respect your opinion and mine may be just as wrong...but there is a bunch of proof to support the possibility that this war is only about oil.
I would like to hear a different reason for saving the burning oil. I just can't think of any.

[msuViolator]

I am not a "war-monger" but i do feel that some measures need to be taken to ensure the safety of our families. War is not the complete answer but unfortunately the Iraqi govt. will not respond to anything else. Bush is not an "idiot". I dont agree with some of the things he says but by no means is he an idiot. The thing I hate most abou the anti-war demonstrators is the fact that they THINK they know more than the CIA. come on! I really dont think we wage war for no apparent reason. Oil is a factor, but not the main reason for the invasion. Only a select few know everything about what kind of threats Iraq poses on the US. I dont claim to know the ins-and-outs of the Iraqi threat, but anti-war demonstrators do not know more than I or Bush and the CIA about the subject. I am for the liberation of the Iraqi people. Under Hussein's rule, the poor Iraqis are not allowed to have cell phones, internet in their homes, or satellite TV. He has managed to separate his people from the rest of the world. Its pretty sad. These people are oppressed, but hopefully not for much longer. Support the US troops. They are putting their LIFE on the line to ensure our freedom and the feedom of the IRAQI people. Are you willing to do that!? This war will not end terrorism, and unfortunately nothing will. Be proud of the benefits of being an AMERICAN. I have traveled the world and there is no place like the good ol' US of A!

[osiris]

Ok, I don't claim to know more than Bush (lol!, understatement) or the CIA (who DID let the whole world trade center thing slip by)
but I do know that war is simply ignorance. There can NEVER be a justification. The soldiers that are fighting did put THEIR life on the line, that was their choice, good for them. I would not put my life on the line for a stupid reason, and never will. That being said I will never support ANY troop of any war. Iraq is in no way, or ever will ne a threat to us.
Even senor Powell said that the Iraqi weapons can only go so far (their neighbors etc, not us). So to come up with an excuse people say "oh but terrorists!, Iraq can supply them!"
Sure, they could do that...but i THINK our omniscient CIA or the new Motherland oops, er, Homeland security could put a stop to that, or so I'm told.

[osiris]

Originally posted by osiris
Ok, I don't claim to know more than Bush (lol!, understatement) or the CIA (who DID let the whole world trade center thing slip by)
but I do know that war is simply ignorance. There can NEVER be a justification. The soldiers that are fighting did put THEIR life on the line, that was their choice, good for them. I would not put my life on the line for a stupid reason, and never will. That being said I will never support ANY troop of any war. Iraq is in no way, or ever will ne a threat to us.
Even senor Powell said that the Iraqi weapons can only go so far (their neighbors etc, not us). So to come up with an excuse people say "oh but terrorists!, Iraq can supply them!"
Sure, they could do that...but i THINK our omniscient CIA or the new Motherland oops, er, Homeland security could put a stop to that, or so I'm told.

Quit being such a pessimist osiris, OH wait...my plan was simply to bring this message back up to the top so more people can learn. It's too bad that after a while of non posting a message drops to the bottom of the list and nobody can learn about pointless earth stuff....

In all seriousness, does anyone know if it's true that Bush voted for Nader.

[Cronos]

I <3 Bush.

[osiris]

Go you!

[Big_D]

osiris, I'd like you to read this article:

http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/?id=111

[Sisyphos]

I don't like Bush either.
I think a lot of his decisions are wrong, or drawn to support his supporters.
I think war is always the result of human failure before, and in this case, it is even more obvious. Who supplied Saddam with gas? Bush Sr. Who shipped material to be used in times of war to Iraq? Germany. This war could have been avoided if people would have discovered the threat erlier.

But as it stands now, a war on Saddam and his followers is necessary (I gues I'm not making any friends today). Saddam slaughters his own people, and apart from any pre-war propaganda, we can say that he is responsible for thousands of dead citizens, of tortured women and men, of letting his own people starve and suppressing them.
It is in the nature of war that we have to, in order to free people from a dictator, we have to kill some of them. Yes, we might even be hated for that. But getting rid of this man and his regime is worth a lot of costs, and we shall not stand aside when an evil man pursues thousands of people. Yes, if we look away, we leave the field to Saddam and his minions, and we have the blood of his people on our hands.

Note: I do not say that Bush leads this war for humanitarian reasons. I fear that all he pursues is the oil. But killing Saddam and freeing his people, establishing democracy and maintaining it, is a necissity in my eyes.

[IFadeAway]

I will be the first to admit I can't stand Bush, but this in my opinion, this war was needed. If for no other reason than to show Hussein and other piddly ant dictators that support (covert or otherwise) of terrorism and torture of their own people is unnacceptable.

I think this should have been done 12 years ago the first time we were over there, and there would have been a lot less garbarge to argue about now.

As far as Bush goes, he's a piece of garbage, and anyone who doesn't think this is personally (or financially) motivated for him is either A. Stupid, or B. Lying.

[Sisyphos]

Originally posted by mstajduh
in the end, this war is justified because people dont' want to change or take responsibility.... they take their freedoms for granted and play politics to their own ened. Unless someone wants to step forward and work for free to fix these problems.. be My guest...


This war is good for killing Saddam and freeing the people.
But the reason Bush wants this war is because of oil. Anyway, it is us that create the need of oil, for sure. But to comment your statement: We can change. We do change. Look, why is the US-need of oil so high? Because people refuse to buy smaller cars and prefer large, moronic SUVs Things have changed here over Europe, we don't need as much oil per head im comparison to America. So, I guess we can change our way of life. Plus, we could possibly use solar energy much more... there are possibilities. Endless.
But in the end, you are right: We are far too comfortable. We are even so comfortable to kill thousands and suppress people to gain more oil. Oil, oil, oil. American Way of Life. Prosperity. Personal bliss by consume. Who is free of that?

[Pro_Art]

Originally posted by osiris
I mean I highly respect your opinion and mine may be just as wrong...but there is a bunch of proof to support the possibility that this war is only about oil.

This war isn't just about oil. It's about so-called freeing
the Iraqi people by installing a puppet regime. They don't
just want the oil. The land has other resources for them to
exploit too. Sand is one because it is a cheap fill, it's lighter
than wet soil, and it pours easily, very easily.

The US doesn't just want Iraq, they want the whole middle
east... and they have plans to take it. Israel was their first
move. Iraq vs Iran was suppose to be another move, but
it was unsuccessful. It would've been a cakewalk if those
two countries destroyed each other.

Why do these damn anti-war protesters have to interfere in
Bush's plans to conquer the middle east and exploit their
land and resources? Why don't they let him liberate the
people just like they did in Central America a good number
of times? (They were covert wars of course!)

Peace,
Pro Art (Protocol Artisan)

[Pro_Art]

Originally posted by msuViolator
The thing I hate most abou the anti-war demonstrators is the fact that they THINK they know more than the CIA. come on! I really dont think we wage war for no apparent reason.

You are correct! The US wouldn't go to war for no apparent
reason. They've got LOTS!!! Unfortunately, the CIA doesn't
look out for interests of the people. They work for the
government! If the government wants to exploit another
country's resouces and asks the CIA to figure out a way to
make it possible, they will make it possible!

Peace,
Pro Art (Protocol Artisan)

[marcus]

Originally posted by Big_D
osiris, I'd like you to read this article:

http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/?id=111 What kind of twisted logic is this? If he is right we should build cars with less fuel efficiency therefore the third world countries will have more than enough food to eat. WTF does his argument have to do with common sense?

That said, Hussien is a megalomaniac who is is in complete control of a country in an area of political unrest. He needs to be removed from power.

[marcus]

Originally posted by osiris
Oh no! Don't burn OUR precious oil!

Seriously...it's not like anyone in office gives a shit about the environment OR "saving" the oil for the Iraqi people (which the PEOPLE don't actually own themselves). Iraq's oil was nationalized over thirty years ago(1972), this was one of saddam's moves that solidified his power and early popularity with his people. Before it was nationalized the rights were owned by some of the bigger oil companies of the time. I'm not sure but I seem to remember that BP(british petroleum) was one of the major players in this.

[dark_star]

You guys seem to have this situation under control. I think you all should go visit Sadam, bush and Bin Laden and tell them your ideas