Hands to the sky crying "Why, Oh WhY?"

[crimble]

This is why I love Tool...

Everyone that has heard this line has told me, when I ask "what do you picture while hearing this line?" They all have said, including myself, that they picture a Middle Eastern Woman wearing head coverings. It could be a woman from anywhere in any war torn nation, but I just picture the Middle East, why? The answer to me is because of the images constantly pumped into my brain by T.V.
Tool knows what they are doing, this song seems like an appetiser, I expect bigger things to come when the album is released!

[eddie75]

I don't really picture a middle east woman, but just a woman in general. In fact I think a Sundanese or ethiopian woman fits in my mind more.

[Isac Khrondor]

It's my favorite lyric in the song, it totally reminds me of that clip in Fahrenheit 9/11 with the woman in Iraq just crying out to God asking why he had allowed her family and home to be taken away from her in the war.

[phreak03]

i think of south asian women during the tsunami.

[Andorion]

I pictured an African woman, when I heard that line.

[mattw]

Simple line but very effective...

The tsunami in 2004, the war in Iraq, Africa, the Middle East, poverty etc. all come to mind for me.

I am looking forward to seeing what Adam Jones has come up with for the video for Vicarious... should be 'interesting'

[geoman2k]

I kept thinking of Kent State, for some odd reason. It's the only time I can recall a person doing this. That girl actually cried, "Why?" while her friend died in her arms. It has become iconic of our history.

That and I stopped watching TV in 2002.


just a tidbit of info about that photo... the "friend" of the slain student wasn't even a friend... she was just some hippy who had traveled to penn state to protest. probably part of the same group of hippies who turned the protests violent and caused the shootings. she should have stayed in her little commune and left the protesting to the actual students of kenn state.

sorry to hange the subject, just i just wanted to mention that because everytime i see that picture it bugs me.

oh yea, and i wouldn't say hands to the sky crying is something only middle eastern woman do... they just happen to have more reasons too a the moment, what with having bombs dropping on them and all.

[thejesus]

Wierd...I pictured the exact same thing...middle easter woman with black head covering kneeling/squating down next to her dead child, hands to the sky

[eddie75]

While I understand your point, that she didn't even know the guy or whatever, hardly makes it less effective as an act of humanity. Frankly, if this is true, that she wasn't a friend of this bullet holed person, and didn't know him at all, makes it even more so a out pouring of emotion, of sorrow, and loss.

Furthermore, It was KENT STATE in OHIO. Hence the song, "FOUR DEAD IN OHIO". Not Kenn state, not Penn state. Kent. In Ohio.

And another thing, peaceful protesting of a WAR should not induce the National Gaurd being deployed to a fucking college campus. The Police would be fine. And FIRING UPON STUDENTS WITH ROCKS HARDLY MAKES IT CONSTITUTIONAL TO OPEN FIRE IN THE FUCKING FIRST PLACE.


I agree with all of your points except the rock throwing one. I protest is no longer peaceful when you start throwing rocks. The national guard may have been a bit much, but that was any thing but a peaceful protest.

[chonus]

Wierd...I pictured the exact same thing...middle easter woman with black head covering kneeling/squating down next to her dead child, hands to the sky


Me too.

and it reminds me of the Iraq war being shown on tv like it is a movie. "Shock and Awe." (If this isn't political I don't know what is)Then I start thinking about how we got in this mess and what the majority of people are doing about it - watching it on tv.

[eddie75]

They threw the rocks after the Guardsmen stood in formation. They had pretty much made up their mind how the protest was going to end.
It doesn't matter when they threw rocks, the fact that they did was the start of the problem. If the state government decides to use the national guard that's their decision. To throw rocks at other kids in uniform was wrong. It wasn't a good situation for either side.

[eddie75]

Ok. You're right.

Rocks = deadly violent
Bullets = velvet kisses

It's a good thing hippies take to gaping velvet kisses like fish to sea. Otherwise, we might have had a serious problem.
Don't give me your sarcastic bullshit.
You may not agree, but throwing rocks is far from a peaceful protest. The national guard reacted in the wrong way, but what do you expect from a bunch of kids put in a situation like that? They weren't trained to deal with it. I have a hard time feeling sorry for a group who throws rocks at people with guns who are trained to kill.
Now lets get back on subject.

[anagram?]

Don't give me your sarcastic bullshit.
You may not agree, but throwing rocks is far from a peaceful protest. The national guard reacted in the wrong way, but what do you expect from a bunch of kids put in a situation like that? They weren't trained to deal with it. I have a hard time feeling sorry for a group who throws rocks at people with guns who are trained to kill.
Now lets get back on subject.

Exactly what I was about to type. Back on subject, I pictured a Middle-Eastern woman immediately when I heard that line...presumably because, as Maynard implies, that is what I see on TV. I never watch the news, but those images are everywhere these days.

[Madrid]

It's my favorite lyric in the song, it totally reminds me of that clip in Fahrenheit 9/11...


If a Tool album, in any way, has ANYTHING to do with Michael Moore - I'm done with Tool.

[pryingopenmy3rdeye]

nice thread crimble...welcome to TDN

[chonus]

If a Tool album, in any way, has ANYTHING to do with Michael Moore - I'm done with Tool.


C-Ya.


Michael Moore is doing the back up vocals on Jambi.


Later.

[Madrid]

C-Ya.


Michael Moore is doing the back up vocals on Jambi.


Later.

Funny you say that, he was actually going to work on "Super-Size Me".

[Bob_Marley_Wannabe]

If a Tool album, in any way, has ANYTHING to do with Michael Moore - I'm done with Tool.


agreed

[phylleb]

I kept thinking of Kent State, for some odd reason. It's the only time I can recall a person doing this. That girl actually cried, "Why?" while her friend died in her arms. It has become iconic of our history.

That and I stopped watching TV in 2002.


on a funnier note, the last time I remember seeing somebody crying "why" was nancy kerrigan on tv after that jeff galolie guy split her knee with that bar right on tv, thought you might get a kick out of that in desensitized why

[waffel]

This line really relates to me, because it was what I was doing when I heard this song. Asking God why tool had to make such a crappy single after 5 years.

[chonus]

This line really relates to me, because it was what I was doing when I heard this song. Asking God why tool had to make such a crappy single after 5 years.


I don't agree but I'm still laughing.

[Isac Khrondor]

This line really relates to me, because it was what I was doing when I heard this song. Asking God why tool had to make such a crappy single after 5 years.

Ha ha.

[Agenda]

While a mother holds her child watches him ....... is the most powerfull line in the song. Every time I hear that line I think of white woman clutching her child. I get a clear vision of her face. The tears running down her cheeks, anyone else?

[geoman2k]

i'm really confused why people seem to concentrate on the race of the woman crying... the song gives no clue that he's talking about middle eastern/black/white people, i think the line is about the suffering of those who survive violence. nothing more.

anyways, i know it is off subject, but i want to clarifly what i said about the chick in the photo from kent state. when college students protest, it can be very powerfull but most college students know when to draw the line. anyone who can make it that far in college is probably smart enough to know they shouldn't throw rocks at armed men, whether they are government involved or not. the point i'm trying to make is that it was probably not the college students (like the one who died) who started the violence. it was probably the hippy protesters (like the girl crying over the dead body) who congregated on kent state looking for trouble who started the violence.
i just think it adds a different element to the image when you think of it that way. sorry to go off subject again.

[prater]

When I hear this I think a group of people sitting around (the water cooler, or cofee shop) gossipping over the latest murder, rape, tragedy that they have seen on the news like it has no affect on them like they are not part of it. But it excites them still. It makes sense, people enjoy watching that stuff, just like every suspense/thriller/horror movie out there, people today live in such a sheltered little world that this stuff excites them, makes them feel alive but they don't actually realize how real it is. They've never experienced a real tragedy, they have no real pain. So they feed on other people's. Then towards the end it sounds like Maynard is almost saying that it is just basic human nature to do this, why can't we just admit it?

However what I picture is someone in a dark room on a couch with nothing on but the TV in front of them (thus colors dancing all over their walls) watching a faces of death or similiar video.

This song makes so much sense, why else would we (myself included) be drawn to violence in movies, tragedy, or reality TV such as survivor. I doubt many veterans who have seen real war really find shows like survivor that exiting. But for those of us who have never experienced things of that nature its exciting. But most would never want to actually go through it themselves. Hence "Vicariously I live while the whole world dies, you all needn't choose your own lies." Basically I know you do it, but you don't need to hide it. Just admit it.

Thats just my take, I could be wrong, with Maynard's lyrics its hard to be wrong or right.

Thanks

[prater]

When I hear this I think a group of people sitting around (the water cooler, or cofee shop) gossipping over the latest murder, rape, tragedy that they have seen on the news like it has no affect on them like they are not part of it. But it excites them still. It makes sense, people enjoy watching that stuff, just like every suspense/thriller/horror movie out there, people today live in such a sheltered little world that this stuff excites them, makes them feel alive but they don't actually realize how real it is. They've never experienced a real tragedy, they have no real pain. So they feed on other people's. Then towards the end it sounds like Maynard is almost saying that it is just basic human nature to do this, why can't we just admit it?

However what I picture is someone in a dark room on a couch with nothing on but the TV in front of them (thus colors dancing all over their walls) watching a faces of death or similiar video.

This song makes so much sense, why else would we (myself included) be drawn to violence in movies, tragedy, or reality TV such as survivor. I doubt many veterans who have seen real war really find shows like survivor that exiting. But for those of us who have never experienced things of that nature its exciting. But most would never want to actually go through it themselves. Hence "Vicariously I live while the whole world dies, you all needn't choose your own lies." Basically I know you do it, but you don't need to hide it. Just admit it.

Thats just my take, I could be wrong, with Maynard's lyrics its hard to be wrong or right.

Thanks

[drone007]

if the song wasn't about living vicariously through the tv, then race would play no part.

HOWEVER, it does in this case. I also pictured a middle eastern woman when I heard this line, because that's the most prevalent image for women crying right now to me. If it weren't I wouldn't have thought of it, obviously. The subconscious mind will show itself many times throughout your day. There's a reason the majority of people thought of a middle eastern woman, be it a good or bad reason - that's besides the point.

The point of the song is that we watch the TV and soak up these images... and ultimately, do nothing.

[ID-entity]

If a Tool album, in any way, has ANYTHING to do with Michael Moore - I'm done with Tool.
I agree with this statement.

[winter_sun]

WoW!it's really amazing how people from the four corners of the earth have the same image in their minds when they listen to some certain lyrics;collective unconsious,one might say!We all thought of a middle-east woman with her dead child in her hands.This is because we all saw the exact same images from the recent war in Iraq,people of Iraq getting killed and nothing else.Please,try to remember:did you see any American people crying like that on TV?Probably not.We only saw Americans crying in Fahrenheit 9/11...Protesting against war is what we should be doing instead of watching innocent people die.
P.S. firing against protesters sucks!!!

[prater]

http://www.strangeland.com/asp/show.asp?id=7373

Would you really rather sit by and do nothing while they do this to their people?

[*see*you*auntie*]

http://www.strangeland.com/asp/show.asp?id=7373

Would you really rather sit by and do nothing while they do this to their people?

DON'T EVER POST ANYTHING LIKE THAT AGAIN WITHOUT A WARNING

[æternus-mens]

^^ what is it?

[*see*you*auntie*]

^^ what is it?

A clip of a man having his throat slit open. It's really horrific.

I don't care if people want to watch it but a warning would have been nice. I'll never get that image, or the goddamn sounds, out of my head now.

[drone007]

http://www.strangeland.com/asp/show.asp?id=7373

Would you really rather sit by and do nothing while they do this to their people?


thanks you fucking douchebag. as if terrible things haven't happened hundreds of places elsewhere... and we haven't done anything about it except in places with strategic significance or resources.

[*see*you*auntie*]

thanks you fucking douchebag. as if terrible things haven't happened hundreds of places elsewhere... and we haven't done anything about it except in places with strategic significance or resources.

^TRUTH

"Was it cast for the mass who burn and toil?
Or for the vultures who thirst for blood and oil?"

[=====D~~~~~]

I just thought of some woman clutching her dead child in America.

For the song in general i thought of Laci Peterson/Scott Peterson, Natalie Holloway. Also Nancy Grace trying people on tv instead of the court system, and people obsessed with watching the latest murder case on tv.

[Systolic]

Fuck... that was horrible...

Im seriously fucked up now... Thanks you asshole.

[*see*you*auntie*]

Fuck... that was horrible...

Im seriously fucked up now... Thanks you asshole.

I haven't been able to get it out of my head. I want to pour bleach into my ears to burn the images from my brain. How is it that this kind of shit is allowed? I've seen people probed, even banned, for much less.

[Systolic]

I haven't been able to get it out of my head. I want to pour bleach into my ears to burn the images from my brain. How is it that this kind of shit is allowed? I've seen people probed, even banned, for much less.


I reported it to a mod...

Its fucking sick.. it makes me REALLY upset...

[aussiemart]

Lucky i didnt watch it just saw the warning,, Thanks so mutch to see you auntie for the warning,,this stuff can stuff you up.

Cheers.

[Ancalagon]

This is what I picture:

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/fsa/8b29000/8b29500/8b29516r.jpg

Don't worry; it's not disturbing.

[prater]

Sorry to say thats reality, but you go ahead and keep your good safe distance. Me I've been over there, and am on my way back. I don't agree with what they're doing to their people, but instead of sitting trying not to think about it me and my brothers and sisters are trying to do something about it. As for strategic resource, dude, theres only so much sand one can use, there are no resources over there I've seen it with my own eyes, its just sand, lots and lots of godforsaken sand. If we were gaining something from this then wouldn't the economy be getting better instead of worse? The price of war is only hurting the U.S. economy, but considering a bad economy for us is like heaven for the innocent people I came in contact with during deployment, I don't feel we have any room to complain. I feel like the message is clearly that tragedy and violence is not a thrill or even exciting exept to ignorant people who have never seen it first hand. These ignorant's sitting in front of their TV's are exited by the images that keep me and my comrades up at night and will haunt us for the rest of our lives.

[aeon blue]

media is fiction. iraqi women have become fetishisised images of loss that we regard scopophilically. like ego reification.

and thankyou for that beheading clip. it truly horrified me. but the amount of times ive heard some media hack talk about a beheading and say 'we can't show you that'- my response has always been, why not? is it one thing to commit the act but another to view it? to make an opinion on objective news, youve got to be allowed access to all the media, or else its being filtered along some bias or agenda of one kind or another. so thankyou. at last i've seen an iraqi beheading. and itll stay with me for some time.

i disagree wholeheartedly that the poster of that link should be banned or reprimanded in any way. you don't shoot the messenger, do you?

[F!end]

i disagree wholeheartedly that the poster of that link should be banned or reprimanded in any way. you don't shoot the messenger, do you?

I second that.