I just don't get how people don't like this song

[Hoffman27]

after hearing this on the radio today, after hearing the song about 15 times, I still don't get why some (SOME!) people don't like this song still? It's so progressive and heavy and melodic, it's so powerful.

[ThePatient666]

I agree. It takes a few listens to "digest" it, but it absolutely grows on you...

[eddie75]

Yes it is, and it's damn good song. I have a buddy who lost interest in tool due to lateralus call me today and say he was excited about the new album after hearing it.
He thought lateralus lost some of the edge tool had before, so he still dug them, but no where near as much.

[Johnny Truant]

I don't understand it either. Obviously everyone in the entire world has the same taste in music, so why don't they like it?

[meatchunk]

Also TOOL selected the song that would be the most "radio friendly." I can't wait to hear the rest of the album if that is a brief glimpse of whats to come

[stardown]

I know what you're saying, I love the song. It's so diverse it's ridiculous, but I can understand why people wouldn't like it. I think for a lot of people maybe even myself included, it's hard to accept a change in sound, and some people feel like it was a drastic change (while others feel it was a mild change and still sounds like tool.)

[Tyro]

I like the song, but that's just the problem. Sure, it shines through a few times, and yes, it grew on me, however, personally, it feels linear, It feels over produced. And it feels like they didn't develop this song to its full potential.

I do like it however, and at least the emotion of the song is coming out more and more with each listen.

[acsguitar]

The song sounds good to me. I like people who complain because every song tool puts out isn't better then the next

[Tyro]

Srcsm, o noes.

[Virginity Trey]

I can understand people being dissapointed after having huge expectations. What I don't understand is how anyone could call it a piece of crap, say how worthless it is, etc.

At the very worst it's an average Tool song...which makes it fucking brilliant.

[tangent]

This has probably been posted but I'll do it again anyway. How come Blair's April 1st post is more believeable than this part of the newsletter in 2005 (Septermber):

(Source=http://www.toolband.com/news/letter/2005_09.php)

"Now where was I?.. Oh yeah, TOOL!.. I'm not going to reveal my source, Mister Patience, but do you want to know the kind of things that have been going on while this record was being recorded? Okay, first there was the decoy record just to confound all those would-be bootleggers out there. This took, oh, about a year, just because the band members wanted it to sound pretty close to the real thing (so as to be believable), along with equally believable art design. When they weren't working on this grand deception, there were other pleasant distractions, such as July 4th 'barbecues with Boar's Head dogs and Icelandic Barbie totally naked by the Jacuzzi, concerts at the Hollywood bowl with a nest of diamonds overhead "...

[Clutch it like an AEnima]

I can understand people being dissapointed after having huge expectations. What I don't understand is how anyone could call it a piece of crap, say how worthless it is, etc.

At the very worst it's an average Tool song...which makes it fucking brilliant.
yup.......maynards voice makes me sudder........i love it

[apocalyptic dispositon]

I can understand people being dissapointed after having huge expectations. What I don't understand is how anyone could call it a piece of crap, say how worthless it is, etc.

At the very worst it's an average Tool song...which makes it fucking brilliant.


Amen!!

[paper_head]

I still don't get why some (SOME!) people don't like this song still?Who here doesn't like Vicarious? I haven't read any post yet where someone was trashing the song. I'm not going to hear it untill 5/2/06 with the rest of 10000 days.

[unclezoso]

I haven't got time to read all the threads that discuss this song but so far I've seen more complaints about people who dislike this song than actual complaints about the song.

[Dredg]

The song sounds good to me. I like people who complain because every song tool puts out isn't better then the next


I like people who are fan boys and really don't see the cheap and half assed layout of the song. Not one Tool fan has expressed any desire to actually give a decent discription of why they like the song. It is either "I just splooged in my pants" or "dude this is just amazing."



Tool does not have to put out a better song then the next, but they have to keep their artistic integrity. Putting in Adams little tremolo solo is just a waste of time, it sounds EXACTLY like Pushit (6:55-6:58).


The outro to Vicarious is the SAME exact outro as Schism is. Why did they keep that shit in there? We all know they are capable of making something more original.

[dasmico]

the outro is not the same at all. different notes, rhythym, everything.


i agree with the beginning. if you are so jaded with music that this song doesnt rock your ass off, what is wrong with you?

honestly, why sit around deconstructing the song when you can rock out to it?

it is ROCK MUSIC. it ROCKS, period.

[CroyezAuRien]

We all know they are capable of making something more original.

We'll have to wait for the album to see if they have won't we.

[Vaginal Replicator]

I have to agree with this guy in saying that I don't like that tremolo solo at all, it's not played well at all compared to his other tremolo stuff, and secondly, it just sounds stupid and put in at the last minute.

[godhenry]

I like people who are fan boys and really don't see the cheap and half assed layout of the song. Not one Tool fan has expressed any desire to actually give a decent discription of why they like the song. It is either "I just splooged in my pants" or "dude this is just amazing."


You apparently have not read this thread
http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=41407

and the rest of your arguments just do not stand. but that's ok.

[NoD]

Everyone likes it, they just don't know it yet....in a couple of months they'll start saying how its' grown on them.

This song is an amazing piece of composition, so fucking powerful...

[Lagomorph]

it sounds to me like they got a disturbed song and then added heaps of tool like qualities to it to disguise it (flash time sigs and toolish sounds etc).

i'm dead serious.

[absolutezero]

Well I was worried when I started to read all these Vicarious bashing threads before I'd heard the song yet. When I finally got my grubby hands on it..... FUCK YEAH, awesome stuff. So I feel sorry for all you Tool fans that don't like it because that has to be shattering for you, otherwise I'm happy as a pig in mud.

[Dredg]

I can understand people being dissapointed after having huge expectations. What I don't understand is how anyone could call it a piece of crap, say how worthless it is, etc.

At the very worst it's an average Tool song...which makes it fucking brilliant.


Just to let you know, there is not 1 tool song out there that has C quality work. If anything the song is C- work, just because we all know what they are capable of.

Lyrics. not good. Leaves nothing to the imagination. No comparisons or contrasts. No Satire. Just straightforward so the average apathetic person can think he/she is political. 2 years waited for these half ass lyrics? And you put are "splooging"

Guitar. Average at best, however, when you are using the same exact chords for the past 10 years you need to somewhat be different about it. The riff in this song does not take me anywhere, it is bland, and requires me to listen to it once to understand it. This has never happened before when I have listened to tool.

Adam could of easily followed suit with using his virus snyth more often while working with his guitar. This adds diversity and helpful aid to the limit amount of chords he plays.

His tremolo rendition is totally pittful and I dont know what they were thinking when he kept that.

Adam usually comes off with a strong riff, with a strong breakdown, a strong outro, and a strong solo. What happened?


Justin used the whammy like he used on Schism, I dont mind..but whatever. He changed his sound which is a plus for me and I like it. Good job Justin.


Danny's drums were and always will be entertaining.


Overall this song does not sound "heavier" or "deeper" whatsoever if anything it sounds the total opposite.

Adams guitar sounds fake. There was too much production work on it to make it sound heavier. I can't hear his uber cabs and diseal heads...where did they go?

[apocalyptic dispositon]

I like people who are fan boys and really don't see the cheap and half assed layout of the song. Not one Tool fan has expressed any desire to actually give a decent discription of why they like the song. It is either "I just splooged in my pants" or "dude this is just amazing."



Tool does not have to put out a better song then the next, but they have to keep their artistic integrity. Putting in Adams little tremolo solo is just a waste of time, it sounds EXACTLY like Pushit (6:55-6:58).


The outro to Vicarious is the SAME exact outro as Schism is. Why did they keep that shit in there? We all know they are capable of making something more original.


Just because someone doesnt analyze every line of lyric or piece of music throughout the song and give some indepth opinion on how good it is doesnt mean someone cant just know good music when they hear it. It is a great song!! Period.........

[apocalyptic dispositon]

it sounds to me like they got a disturbed song and then added heaps of tool like qualities to it to disguise it (flash time sigs and toolish sounds etc).

i'm dead serious.


What you just said was completely and utterly worthless. We are all dumber for having read that.

[Jesus Knievel]

HOW ABOUT I SUM UP THIS THREAD AND JUST SAY EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINION. YOU SHOULDNT CARE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK AS LONG AS YOU LIKE IT.

THERE.

[waffel]

I dunno, just doesnt sound like something tool would put out.

[Mortal Moxie]

after hearing this on the radio today, after hearing the song about 15 times, I still don't get why some (SOME!) people don't like this song still? It's so progressive and heavy and melodic, it's so powerful.

Because theres alot of fanboys out there who pray by TooL, that set there hopes so unbelievably high that no band could ever live up to their expectations.

In essence they ruined it for themselves.

[apocalyptic dispositon]

Just to let you know, there is not 1 tool song out there that has C quality work. If anything the song is C- work, just because we all know what they are capable of.

Lyrics. not good. Leaves nothing to the imagination. No comparisons or contrasts. No Satire. Just straightforward so the average apathetic person can think he/she is political. 2 years waited for these half ass lyrics? And you put are "splooging"

Guitar. Average at best, however, when you are using the same exact chords for the past 10 years you need to somewhat be different about it. The riff in this song does not take me anywhere, it is bland, and requires me to listen to it once to understand it. This has never happened before when I have listened to tool.

Adam could of easily followed suit with using his virus snyth more often while working with his guitar. This adds diversity and helpful aid to the limit amount of chords he plays.

His tremolo rendition is totally pittful and I dont know what they were thinking when he kept that.

Adam usually comes off with a strong riff, with a strong breakdown, a strong outro, and a strong solo. What happened?


Justin used the whammy like he used on Schism, I dont mind..but whatever. He changed his sound which is a plus for me and I like it. Good job Justin.


Danny's drums were and always will be entertaining.


Overall this song does not sound "heavier" or "deeper" whatsoever if anything it sounds the total opposite.

Adams guitar sounds fake. There was too much production work on it to make it sound heavier. I can't hear his uber cabs and diseal heads...where did they go?


Just because the lyrics are straight forward doesnt make them bad. It actually adds to the song and makes him sound more pissed. When youre mad do you use all these hidden meanings and big words? no.

Sometimes simpler is better.

[NoD]

I dunno, just doesnt sound like something tool would put out.

well tool did put it out, so now it does

[Dredg]

Because theres alot of fanboys out there who pray by TooL, that set there hopes so unbelievably high that no band could ever live up to their expectations.

In essence they ruined it for themselves.

I didnt have any expectations for it. What I heard was that the band was going to sound more heavy and deep. This has not be fullfilled really.


I started to question the band when Blair and Kabir started putting up their news dates saying "Trust us, this album will rock".

[Dredg]

Just because the lyrics are straight forward doesnt make them bad. It actually adds to the song and makes him sound more pissed. When youre mad do you use all these hidden meanings and big words? no.

Sometimes simpler is better.


thats the thing, to me, he doesnt sound more pissed. There is no hidden meanings and big words in any tool songs, they have all been straight forward, otherwise there would be no irony.

[Mortal Moxie]

I didnt have any expectations for it.

I'm doubtful of this.

I'm the most jaded music consumer you can find and Vicarious punches me right in the teeth. When I heard they were going for a heavier sound thats exactly what I expected; to be punched right in the teeth.

Then literally. The first time I played it some strange man walked out of a closet and punched me right in the teeth.

Perfect!

I love the song, and really am sorry that you can't enjoy it. Give it a chance as a small puzzle piece that will no doubt fit in with the rest of many more peices come 5/2.

[whalethesecond]

its pretty easy not to like this song. think about if you've been listening to every post-rock band that exists for 6 hours a day for a month, and this initially sounds pretty bemusing. Why? because it follows the tool formula. 3-4-1 progressions, 5/4 drop d riffs etc. etc.

that said, i like vicarious

[Dog_Si_Dranyam]

I'm just glad that this is ONLY their radio single. And even that blows everything else that's playing on mainstream radio out of the water. I don't think this song is Tool's best... Barely in the top 10 even. But in no way is it a horrible song or a piece of shit. It's still pretty awesome. And, IMO, most of their first single releases for each album has been one of the weakest points of their albums, so this only brings my hopes up for the new album.

People can hate the song as much as they want. So what? I remember a lot of people hating Lateralus when it was first released... Don't hear much trashing towards that nowadays, though. Give it time.

[Mortal Moxie]

its pretty easy not to like this song. think about if you've been listening to every post-rock band that exists for 6 hours a day for a month, and this initially sounds pretty bemusing. Why? because it follows the tool formula. 3-4-1 progressions, 5/4 drop d riffs etc. etc.

that said, i like vicarious

What makes it great is the fact that we all love Tool for the emotion they've given us over the years, and the untouchable musicianship of them all together.

Stop listening to crud post rock bands for 6 hours a day for a month then. Try some variety bro.

[Dredg]

I'm doubtful of this.

I'm the most jaded music consumer you can find and Vicarious punches me right in the teeth. When I heard they were going for a heavier sound thats exactly what I expected; to be punched right in the teeth.

Then literally. The first time I played it some strange man walked out of a closet and punched me right in the teeth.

Perfect!

I love the song, and really am sorry that you can't enjoy it. Give it a chance as a small puzzle piece that will no doubt fit in with the rest of many more peices come 5/2.


lets see, I listened to the song an hour straight after Meshuggah put the link on this forum.

Every single time I posted since the leak I have been listening to the song. So far I have listened to it 5 times on repeat while posting. I probably have listened to this song atleast 30 times.

I hear nothing new, it just doesnt phase me.....why? Because Maynard choose to sing Lal LA ala la la lal a la la. Adam chose to put the exact same Pushit tremolo in it. The same exact Schism outro. This is not how Tool are as artists what so ever.

[Dredg]

I'm just glad that this is ONLY their radio single. And even that blows everything else that's playing on mainstream radio out of the water. I don't think this song is Tool's best... Barely in the top 10 even. But in no way is it a horrible song or a piece of shit. It's still pretty awesome. And, IMO, most of their first single releases for each album has been one of the weakest points of their albums, so this only brings my hopes up for the new album.

People can hate the song as much as they want. So what? I remember a lot of people hating Lateralus when it was first released... Don't hear much trashing towards that nowadays, though. Give it time.


haha Lateralus didnt have maynards crappy lyrics, and lalallalalala's either.

Lateralus did not have recycled Aenema lyrics.


Lateralus did not have recycled guitar riffs.

Lateralus didnt have over dubing like a mother fucker.

[slicknickshady]

lets see, I listened to the song an hour straight after Meshuggah put the link on this forum.

Every single time I posted since the leak I have been listening to the song. So far I have listened to it 5 times on repeat while posting. I probably have listened to this song atleast 30 times.

I hear nothing new, it just doesnt phase me.....why? Because Maynard choose to sing Lal LA ala la la lal a la la. Adam chose to put the exact same Pushit tremolo in it. The same exact Schism outro. This is not how Tool are as artists what so ever.

There is no pushit in vicarious! You are not a professional guitarist. You dont know shit.

[Dredg]

There is no pushit in vicarious! You are not a professional guitarist. You dont know shit.


Pushit, 6:55 - 6:58..........

I dont have to be a professional guitarist, to hear a really crappy tremolo rendition.

it is seriously one of the worst tremolo renditions I have ever heard from ANY Band.

[Dog_Si_Dranyam]

You're comparing Laturalus, an entire album, to one song that's 11 times shorter combined? Like I said, I heard a lot of negetivity, mainly like yours, about Lateralus. Once it had time to settle in, I heard nothing but praise.

Stop reaching. Stop comparing. Seriously, it's been 2-3 days and it's already old with the "OMG IT SOUNDS JUST LIKE THIS THIS AND THAT!" You can dislike the song all you want, no problem, but the comparisons to Tool's other stuff is really pointless... They're ripping themselves off? Come on.

[godhenry]

If this song is like any other previous TOOL songs, you should be able hear Intolerance, Prison Sex, Bottom, Crawl, Swamp Song, 4 Degree. The album Undertow is all over the place in Vicarious, even the lyrical style.

I'm really suprised that no one has made those links yet. but then it could be just me.

[mmortal03]

Just because the lyrics are straight forward doesnt make them bad. It actually adds to the song and makes him sound more pissed. When youre mad do you use all these hidden meanings and big words? no.

Sometimes simpler is better.

Yeah, read these lyrics and tell me they have any hidden meanings or big words:

FUCK YOU!
I can say what I want to,
even if I'm not serious.
I can say what I want to,
even if I'm not serious.
Things like....
"Fuck yourself, fuck yourself
you piece of shit why don't you just kill yourself?!"
I can say what I want to,
even if I'm not serious.
I can say what I want to,
even if.. I'M JUST KIDDING!

People tell me what to say,
what to think ,
and what to play.

I say...
"Yeah well, go fuck yourself, fuck yourself
you piece of shit.
Why don't you go kill yourself?"
I can say what I want to,
even if I'm not serious.
I can say what I want to,
even if.. I'M JUST KIDDING!

"Fuck yourself, fuck yourself,
you piece of shit."

People tell me what to say,
what to think ,
and what to play.
Just kidding.

[happybear]

after hearing this on the radio today, after hearing the song about 15 times, I still don't get why some (SOME!) people don't like this song still? It's so progressive and heavy and melodic, it's so powerful.

I'm underwhelmed. I love Tool to death but it is average at best.

[lateral_circle]

If this song is like any other previous TOOL songs, you should be able hear Intolerance, Prison Sex, Bottom, Crawl, Swamp Song, 4 Degree. The album Undertow is all over the place in Vicarious, even the lyrical style.

I'm really suprised that no one has made those links yet. but then it could be just me.


Great observation. I heard the song 3 days ago, and had to describe it to a friend who hadn't gotten the opportunity. My exact description was Undertow rhythm crossed with Lateralus' epic song structure. The new ingredient?? Maynards vocals. Which I now love.

[lateral_circle]

I'm underwhelmed. I love Tool to death but it is average at best.


So I would like to know what you consider ABOVE average in comparison? Because this song is right up there in their Top 10.

[Vegama]

People don't like it because they're worthless. Every album had a solid voice. Listen to them all in order from Opiate to Lateralus (including salival) and fuck off you worthless shits. I will smash you.

[godhenry]

Great observation. I heard the song 3 days ago, and had to describe it to a friend who hadn't gotten the opportunity. My exact description was Undertow rhythm crossed with Lateralus' epic song structure. The new ingredient?? Maynards vocals. Which I now love.

After reading the AK review that the new album is the most punishing since Undertow, I have listened to nothing but Undertow for the past month or so. I haven't really touched Lateralus or Aenima. And when I first listened to Vicarious, I was so glad that i have picked up Undertow again after ignoring it for a few years.

lateral_circle, you're absolutely right in saying its Undertow rhythm crossed with Lateralus's epic. It's anger, pessimism, and frustration in an epic scale. It's pretty scary when you think of it that way ;-)

[Jimmeny]

Ok, people can jump all over this as much as they like. I am a musican, guitar primarily, and yeah, maybe I'm a little pretentious and yeah, I love all the stuff Tool do about playing in the dark, letting the music shine through, and I love their experiments with groove, the odd time signatures, etc etc. I even love the non flashy guitar work. But,

the primary reason I like Tool is (maybe was but lets not jump to conclusions) their ability to develop as musicians, as songwriters, and to sound like Tool, but with another facet to their artistry. The progression from Undertow to Aenima, fabulous. Aenima to Lateralus, breathtaking.

Then, in the build up to this album, I hear they are developing a heavier edge to their sound. I believe I can quote Danny from a few years ago saying the riffs they were doing were 'more brutal'. This sounded like a spectacle. Lateralus, with MORE guts, more punch, more out an out energy?

Coupled with this, we hear they have been listening to Meshuggah and had been influenced by them. This could be incredible, the brutality of Meshuggah couple with the dark-prog artistry and flash of Tool? This could be incredible if they pull it off.

What, however, do we get?

Well, the album isn't out yet, but, for now, we have been given Vicarious.

Vicarious, which, as a stand alone song, is a great piece of work. But,

Tool, as I said, have always managed to add a facet to their songwritings, each album has it's own feel. What does Vicarious feel like though? Well, it feels like something that would belong on Lateralus, and why is that?

Because it steals 5 or 6 or 7 ideas from Lateralus. What I expect of Tool, would be their ability to go 'what a minute, this legato riff sounds exactly like The Patient, lets do something different'. Or, "wait a minute, this chuggy rock out is pretty much like how we finished Schism and Tick and Leeches, let's do something different.'

They don't do that, they commit to record a song that sounds like a Cousin of Lateralus.

Admittedly, the harmonies in the vocals are a new facet, and I like it alot. The lyrics? Well, I like them, yes they aren't full of metaphor and occasionally they are a bit lame (like the way he starts the pre-chorus with 'in his tea' and the way he pussies out of 'why oh why').

This is an average Tool song. It's not a bad song, but it's not distanced itself from LAteralus like I would have expected of Tool. This could be deliberate, it is track 1 from the album and maybe they wanted to recap. Still, there were 5 years between Third Eye and The Grudge, and how distant are they.

[godhenry]

This is an average Tool song. It's not a bad song, but it's not distanced itself from LAteralus like I would have expected of Tool. This could be deliberate, it is track 1 from the album and maybe they wanted to recap. Still, there were 5 years between Third Eye and The Grudge, and how distant are they.

And one could argue that The Grudge sounds a lot like pieces from Aenima, Stinkfist, and Pushit. One could also argue that Stinkfist sounds a lot like pieces from Prison Sex, Swamp Song, and 4 degrees. Someone could really argue that Intolerance sounds like Cold & Ugly, Hush and maybe something else in Opiate. That's how TOOL evolves like somone else who has described it in another thread. And the first track of evey TOOL's album resembles something familiar from the last and more. Just my 2 cents.

I mean, Sleeping Beauty has parts very similar to Swan Lake. And they're both very beauitul ballet pieces.

And I ain't no musician. I don't even remember how to piano any more. But I'm a very discerned and picky listener. And from the perspective of a listener on how Vicarious hits me, Vicarious is original (yes original!), very corporally punishing (hope you know what i mean), and beautifully composed.

I mean, if you pull all the tabs of all TOOL songs together, you can all say "this is like this" and "this is like that." but when it comes to a song and album, just let it hit you and flow inside you and see how it affect you as an audience and a human being, not as a musician.

[Jimmeny]

I don't agree, because I'm not saying Vicarious 'sounds abit like Lateralus', I'm saying it quite clearly takes the same RIFFS. The Grudge may have aspect of the sounds of Aenima, because that's what makes them Tool (which I said in my post). However, The Grudge is quite distinct from previous things, and it certainly doesn't steal any riffs from Aenima.

[godhenry]

I don't agree, because I'm not saying Vicarious 'sounds abit like Lateralus', I'm saying it quite clearly takes the same RIFFS. The Grudge may have aspect of the sounds of Aenima, because that's what makes them Tool (which I said in my post). However, The Grudge is quite distinct from previous things, and it certainly doesn't steal any riffs from Aenima.

Ok maybe you're right. I don't play guitar. But I hear riffs from Aenima in The Grudge for sure. Maybe your definition of what a riff is technical and mine is more perception, which is my point. You don't have to be different by making your riffs technically different. You can still be inventive by using or borrowing the same riffs in a way that has a totally different impact and musical result. The theme "vicarious" is very fitting here with borrowing the same riffs from previous work...

[Jimmeny]

For me to hear riffs 'technically', I'd have to know how the play them. I heard Vicarious and on first listen, I didn't hear 'elements of previous songs', I heard, sad to say it, rip offs. You may be right though, as I pointed out, this may be deliberate, an attempt to segue the two albums together. I hadn't considered "Vicarious" and the use of similar riffs, which is a nice point of view. I guess all I'm saying is, I will be disappointed if the rest of the album is Lateralus II (which Vicarious is).

[tcM_Emperor]

I don't understand it either. Obviously everyone in the entire world has the same taste in music, so why don't they like it?

You took the words right out of my mouth

Personally, I "just don't get" how people can't understand the concept that one person can hate something while another person loves it.

[godhenry]

I guess all I'm saying is, I will be disappointed if the rest of the album is Lateralus II (which Vicarious is).

I would be too. But I really doubt that it would be the case based on what I've already heard in Vicarious and vaguely see where TOOL is going with this from a creative music writing point of view.

But I guess we're all just agreeing and disagreeing. What we need is the full album so that we will be spending more time on listening to the album and having less free time to kill on this board. ;-)

[tangent]

For me to hear riffs 'technically', I'd have to know how the play them. I heard Vicarious and on first listen, I didn't hear 'elements of previous songs', I heard, sad to say it, rip offs. You may be right though, as I pointed out, this may be deliberate, an attempt to segue the two albums together. I hadn't considered "Vicarious" and the use of similar riffs, which is a nice point of view. I guess all I'm saying is, I will be disappointed if the rest of the album is Lateralus II (which Vicarious is).

Truth.

[Jimmeny]

What we need is the full album so that we will be spending more time on listening to the album and having less free time to kill on this board. ;-)

Quoted for truth

[godhenry]

I just want to add one more thing. Agreeing with Jimmery, TOOL is using the same riffs from Lateralus. But they're using those Lateralus (transcendetnal, i've-got-the-meaning-of-life) riffs but making the music sound like (angry, fuck-you-all) stuff from Undertow. That's pretty genious, I think. And again, hence "Vicarious."

But really, when I first listened to Vicarious, I heard Lateralus but was feeling Undertow. It's still like that now...

I'm hearing Undertow vicariously through Lateralus ;-)

[randomhero8823]

i fucking love the song, it did have to grow on me ass well, but overall its a good tool song. Good job Tool.

[Mortal Moxie]

Pushit, 6:55 - 6:58..........

I dont have to be a professional guitarist, to hear a really crappy tremolo rendition.

it is seriously one of the worst tremolo renditions I have ever heard from ANY Band.

You have to understand that Tool is aging. Their maturing and settling into their true sound. If you dont like it #1: They dont really care and #2: You should go listen to something else.

[Mortal Moxie]

Ok maybe you're right. I don't play guitar. But I hear riffs from Aenima in The Grudge for sure. Maybe your definition of what a riff is technical and mine is more perception, which is my point. You don't have to be different by making your riffs technically different. You can still be inventive by using or borrowing the same riffs in a way that has a totally different impact and musical result. The theme "vicarious" is very fitting here with borrowing the same riffs from previous work...


Look at ACDC bro. Angus Young recycled the same riffs for YEARS!!! And he still does!!! ACDC is one of the best rock bands of all time. No one gave them shit for using the same riffs in a different layout or pattern.

It's about respect. Tool has earned the right to create the sound they want. If you don't like the sound it's not because it doesnt "work" , you don't like it because it's not what you expected. This applies to all.

[Khaotic]

after hearing this on the radio today, after hearing the song about 15 times, I still don't get why some (SOME!) people don't like this song still? It's so progressive and heavy and melodic, it's so powerful.

without reading the rest of the thread.

I can totally see how people don't like it. It doesn't fit what tool has done previously and they judge off the first listen. I was this way when I first herd it. With multiple listens though (which i should have known), you start to notice more structure and musical anomalies that you won't notice on the first listen.

[BlueHalo]

Pushit, 6:55 - 6:58..........

I dont have to be a professional guitarist, to hear a really crappy tremolo rendition.

it is seriously one of the worst tremolo renditions I have ever heard from ANY Band.

Hey buddy, we realize you hate the song, please stop whining, go to a dredg board, anywhere.

[martyr_02]

This has probably been posted but I'll do it again anyway. How come Blair's April 1st post is more believeable than this part of the newsletter in 2005 (Septermber):

(Source=http://www.toolband.com/news/letter/2005_09.php)

"Now where was I?.. Oh yeah, TOOL!.. I'm not going to reveal my source, Mister Patience, but do you want to know the kind of things that have been going on while this record was being recorded? Okay, first there was the decoy record just to confound all those would-be bootleggers out there. This took, oh, about a year, just because the band members wanted it to sound pretty close to the real thing (so as to be believable), along with equally believable art design. When they weren't working on this grand deception, there were other pleasant distractions, such as July 4th 'barbecues with Boar's Head dogs and Icelandic Barbie totally naked by the Jacuzzi, concerts at the Hollywood bowl with a nest of diamonds overhead "...

Even if vicarious is part of a decoy album who cares? If the rest of the songs on the "decoy" album are as good as vicarious then guess what boys and girls, we get two awesome tool albums. Do i think they actually spent a year on a decoy just to mess with us? No. Would I put it past them to do it? Hell no. Didn't the band say that they've only been working on this for like the past year and a half or something? No matter what people say it doesn't take five years to write an album, no mattter how intricate the music might be.

[apocalyptic dispositon]

HOW ABOUT I SUM UP THIS THREAD AND JUST SAY EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINION. YOU SHOULDNT CARE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK AS LONG AS YOU LIKE IT.

THERE.

Agreed, and I also have the right to say what I want about others opinions.