Let's break it [Vicarious] down. A NON-BIASED Review.

[greghatesthekids]

A REAL "UNBIASED" REVIEW FROM SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS HOW TO LISTEN TO MUSIC AND UNDERSTANDS IT'S STRUCTURE:

0:01-0:46 - You got that walking guitar/bass 10/4 or 5/4 riff in the beginning (exactly like Schism)
0:46-1:08 - Then you get the 5/4 rock riff (which is decent),
1:08-1:28 - then you get that "vaccuum" affect on the intro to the verse/vocals (cheesie) and the vocals are kinda weak, definitely in the background, but for the better... the bass riff is killer. nice n' rolling and throbby.
1:24-1:50 - then feedback- 5/4 guitar riff inside a pre-chorus.
1:51-2:11-2:21 - then back to the verse with another cheesie vaccuum cut.
then in the background you get that same 10/4 or 5/4 Schism riff on the guitar as it rises to
2:22-2:40 - the Chorus which is a 4/4 guitar.
2:41-2:49 - 5/4 Guitar riff.
2:51-3:08 - Then a bridge with the palm-muted guitars.
3:09-3:25 - then the Chorus again.
3:26-4:50 - the a SECOND bridge with some metal palm mutes and 4/4 drum beat and some double bass shit. ... then the tremelo guitar solo ... then that DUMB ASS VACCUUM SHIT AGAIN... stupid cheese ball crap. ... then the la-la-la-la-dies guh-ay... (there's some cool building polyrhythms in here)
4:51-6:20 then the 10/4-5/4 guitar/bass riff with the delay. then it starts building ala typical Tool (don't we rely on these guys to do something NOT typical?) ...
some metal crashy double-bass palm mute (kinda cheesie too)
6:21-6:30 then that pretty cool 5/4 guitar riff.
6:30-7:09 then the breakdown... with the stupid metal double bass shit.
then that rolling 5/4 palm-mute double-bass ending. And it's that same snap vaccuum ending as Schism. They use that vaccuum effect WAAAAY too much.

Seems to me like they're just pulling from old-ideas. There are some original thoughts and ideas in there but not that many. It's just a decent song, but it's a dissappointment for a MUSIC fan coming from a band that has such a big reputation for originality. If you think it's a really great song you're pretty mistaken, you need an unbiased perspective.

This is an editorial: Fanboys put your bias aside when you listen to music. Only reason I say this is because I've been a Tool Fanboy for life (14-15 years +) and this was very difficult for me to write and express.

EDIT: There's no such thing as a totally unbiased review. You shouldn't call me a moron because you're a moron for not knowing that to begin with. Takes one to know one. I'm not telling you not the like the song, and I'm not saying this is a bad song, I'm just pointing out the inconsistancies. Fuck you if you think I'm a moron, I learned the fucking song.

[Dredg]

A REAL UNBIASED REVIEW FROM SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS HOW TO LISTEN TO MUSIC AND UNDERSTANDS IT'S STRUCTURE:

You got that walking guitar/bass 10/4 or 5/4 riff in the beginning (exactly like Schism) Then you get the 5/4 rock riff (which is decent), then you get that "vaccuum" affect on the intro to the verse/vocals (cheesie) and the vocals are kinda weak, definitely in the background, but for the better... the bass riff is killer. nice n' rolling and throbby. then feedback- 5/4 guitar riff inside a pre-chorus. then back to the verse with another cheesie vaccuum cut. then in the background you get that same 10/4 or 5/4 Schism riff on the guitar as it rises to the Chorus which is a 4/4 guitar. Then a bridge with the palm-muted guitars. then the Chorus again. the a SECOND bridge with some metal palm mutes and 4/4 drum beat and some double bass shit. ... then the tremelo guitar solo ... then that DUMB ASS VACCUUM SHIT AGAIN... stupid cheese ball crap. ... the the la-la-la-la-dies guh-ay... then the 10/4-5/4 guitar/bass riff with the delay. then it start building ala typical Tool (don't we rely on these guys to do something NOT typical?) ... some metal crashy double-bass palm mute (kinda cheesie too) then that pretty cool 5/4 guitar riff. then the breakdown... with the stupid metal double bass shit. then that rolling 5/4 palm-mute double-bass ending. And it's that same snap vaccuum ending as Schism. They use that vaccuum effect WAAAAY too much.

Seems to me like they're just pulling from old-ideas. There are some original thoughts and ideas in there but not that many. It's just a decent song, but it's a dissappointment for a MUSIC fan coming from a band that has such a big reputation for originality. If you think it's a really great song you're pretty mistaken, you need an unbiased perspective.

This is an editorial: Fanboys put your bias aside when you listen to music.

sounds right to me

[Volrath]

I disagree with the fact that that post was supposed to be an editorial. It's just incoherent rambling...

[greghatesthekids]

I disagree with the fact that that post was supposed to be an editorial. It's just incoherent rambling...


Listen to the song dude and read my review at the same time. If you can't follow then you shouldn't be passing judgements.

Should I put the TIMES in there so the child can follow the review? I threw some opinion in there but not much.

[Volrath]

Listen to the song dude and read my review at the same time. If you can't follow then you shouldn't be passing judgements.




I like the song and your review isn't going to change that. And what you posted was still incoherent rambling...

[tangent]

Anyone notice how the part that goes "Why can't we just admit it" has the EXACT same drum beat as part of Triad? :)

It's parts of the last album thrown together. A hoax. Deadly :)

[Dredg]

I dont know how anybody can apperciate a song that has the SAME exact Guitar solo as in Pushit 6:55 into the song...its just retarded. I cant believe the band felt like keeping that in this new song.

[Dredg]

Anyone notice how the part that goes "Why can't we just admit it" has the EXACT same drum beat as part of Triad? :)

It's parts of the last album thrown together. A hoax. Deadly :)

i dont hear that what so ever.

[Dredg]

There is no Triad / Vicarious resemblance in that part. At least I can't hear it.

It is sad to see how people who don't like the song (all opinions) keep on talking about decoys and hoaxes.


I am talking about Vicarious being rushed and half assed to make a quick buck on fucking retards.

[T-13h]

It's almost like the same band made Aenima, Lateralus, and 10,000 Days. Who'd have thought?

[dischordance]

I think the only part that really offends me is the palm-mute crap. Everything else is okay/kinda good.
WHY, ADAM, WHY?

[Dredg]

A five year rush.....

(Like Dredg is any good.)


Maynard was with APC during 3 years of that 5 years. So it was really a 2 year wait. And we dont even know if they worked on it that much. This song sounds like they were in the studio and did a 1 take jam and organized a few parts together.


Listen to the vicarious ending, Same exact idea for Schism didnt frets.

[vic1torious]

wait until we hear the whole album

[T-13h]

Do people really believe that the band is unware of what parts sound like what previous songs? Has it occured to those that hate the similarities that maybe these homages are intentional and serve a purpose? Do you really believe, all of a sudden, that Tool is mentally-retarded?

[Dredg]

It's almost like the same band made Aenima, Lateralus, and 10,000 Days. Who'd have thought?


no, Aenima had lyrics that gave me something to imagine. There was satire, something to actually think about. Vicarious? Nothing poetic or creative what so ever. Same with Lateralus. Vicarious, only the other hand is straight forward and numetal crap.

[s ti N Kfizt]

tell me what's palm mute exactly.. i don't know, english isn't my home language. i probably guess what it is, but you tell me..

[ObviousParadox]

A REAL UNBIASED REVIEW FROM SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS HOW TO LISTEN TO MUSIC AND UNDERSTANDS IT'S STRUCTURE:

which is decent...
(cheesie)
and the vocals are kinda weak
bass riff is killer.
cheesie vaccuum cut.
then that DUMB ASS VACCUUM SHIT AGAIN... stupid cheese ball crap.
etc.

Unbiased?

You MAY know structure but that doesn't change the fact that you're a moron.

[Dredg]

Do people really believe that the band is unware of what parts sound like what previous songs? Has it occured to those that hate the similarities that maybe these homages are intentional and serve a purpose? Do you really believe, all of a sudden, that Tool is mentally-retarded?


I dont know, but for some reason Adams solo is in this song. Seriously dude its the same exact thing as Pushit's begining solo. quite frankly even if its not the same as tthe Pushit solo it still sucks, Really bad...I expect this from Limp Bizkit but not Tool.

It sounds to me like Tool took all their really catchy attributes and put them all in one song to please the shallow listener.

I have listnened to this song many many many times and it still hasnt grown on me. I am a really big Tool fan and can say that this shit created here is just to make a quick buck.

If you want to hear Vicarious but with a more creative tasteful touch just listen to Meshuggah's Catch 33.

[varg]

A REAL UNBIASED REVIEW FROM SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS HOW TO LISTEN TO MUSIC AND UNDERSTANDS IT'S STRUCTURE:

You got that walking guitar/bass 10/4 or 5/4 riff in the beginning (exactly like Schism) Then you get the 5/4 rock riff (which is decent), then you get that "vaccuum" affect on the intro to the verse/vocals (cheesie) and the vocals are kinda weak, definitely in the background, but for the better... the bass riff is killer. nice n' rolling and throbby. then feedback- 5/4 guitar riff inside a pre-chorus. then back to the verse with another cheesie vaccuum cut. then in the background you get that same 10/4 or 5/4 Schism riff on the guitar as it rises to the Chorus which is a 4/4 guitar. Then a bridge with the palm-muted guitars. then the Chorus again. the a SECOND bridge with some metal palm mutes and 4/4 drum beat and some double bass shit. ... then the tremelo guitar solo ... then that DUMB ASS VACCUUM SHIT AGAIN... stupid cheese ball crap. ... the the la-la-la-la-dies guh-ay... then the 10/4-5/4 guitar/bass riff with the delay. then it starts building ala typical Tool (don't we rely on these guys to do something NOT typical?) ... some metal crashy double-bass palm mute (kinda cheesie too) then that pretty cool 5/4 guitar riff. then the breakdown... with the stupid metal double bass shit. then that rolling 5/4 palm-mute double-bass ending. And it's that same snap vaccuum ending as Schism. They use that vaccuum effect WAAAAY too much.

Seems to me like they're just pulling from old-ideas. There are some original thoughts and ideas in there but not that many. It's just a decent song, but it's a dissappointment for a MUSIC fan coming from a band that has such a big reputation for originality. If you think it's a really great song you're pretty mistaken, you need an unbiased perspective.

This is an editorial: Fanboys put your bias aside when you listen to music. Only reason I say this is because I've been a Tool Fanboy for life (14-15 years +) and this was very difficult for me to write and express.

tr.v. bi·ased, or bi·assed bi·as·ing, or bi·as·sing bi·as·es or bi·as·ses
To influence in a particular, typically unfair direction; prejudice.
To apply a small voltage to (a grid).

[Dredg]

I think Vicarious lyrics are strong, maybe you feel attacked by them? I find them creative.

And so-what if people label Vicarious as nu-metal? Box thinking is stupid anyway. There is some great nu-metal. Only Vicarious will pwn them all.

I dont feel attacked by them, I just know they have already been discussed already but in a better way - STINKFIST.

[tangent]

Ah well, I suppose we will all know the truth soon enough, but it looks like some people already do (be it few).

[dracomordag]

stinkfist - being numbed by constant overstimulation
vicarious - the need to live out our lives through others, especially our desire for violence


they're that similar, huh?

[dischordance]

Vicarious lyrics > Stinkfist lyrics.... Do you seriously believe that?

[waffel]

lol McRoggles. Everyone that doesnt like the lyrics in your mind somehow "feels attacked by them"

How can you be so clueless. Its either a hoax or Maynard sold out.

[dischordance]

Oh. Fair enough.

[Dredg]

tr.v. bi·ased, or bi·assed bi·as·ing, or bi·as·sing bi·as·es or bi·as·ses
To influence in a particular, typically unfair direction; prejudice.
To apply a small voltage to (a grid).

no he is simply showing exactly the different parts of the song and how they flow.


greghatesthekids, maybe you can give them a non-bias review of Schism to show them the difference of old Tool and this new crap.

[cr0nick]

vicarious lyrics are anything but strong. they're "cat-in-the-hat'ish" and everything BUT original.

[Orph8998]

i will give one opinion and the rest will follow the disired structure of the form's creater...
opinion: this is the best topic here

the guitar riff is lame...nu metal chugging on a heavy note to sound scary crap...
there is no dynamics (other than an attempt at it with that vacume stuff)
adam jones stays heavy and distorted the whole time...
they basicly did the same thing mudvayne or however you spell that gay ass name did with their new album...and took old basic riffs and added spicy fills to them to make it sound like they where funkier now

off of the song...i dont see how you can like tool and critisize dredg...i dont know if we should start a mini debate in this room about an unrelated topic...but dude dredg's guitar work smacks the shit out of tool
and they have the ability to use more than one emotion

[varg]

Well, ok. Ok. Go listen to Slipknot then.

[Dredg]

stinkfist - being numbed by constant overstimulation
vicarious - the need to live out our lives through others, especially our desire for violence


they're that similar, huh?


yes being numbed by constnat overstimulation......what happens when you watch TV? you are being numbed by the negative things on TV.....war, famine, death, aids....constantly...TV is a way to END THE BURDEN of bordem....you just need to watch things die to entertain yourself...this is constant over stimulation....


in Stinkfist maynard compares someone getting their anus ripped open. A sort of FUN and IRONIC take on the whole aspect of overstimulation and how all humans possess it...


too bad Vicarious doesnt have this ironic twist to it.

[Orph8998]

Well, ok. Ok. Go listen to Slipknot then.

i dont get it
how does my disliking the nu metal-esque styles of new tool make me a slip knot fan?

[steve99_9]

Unbiased?

You MAY know structure but that doesn't change the fact that you're a moron.
truth

[Dredg]

One thing, just one thing:

Why oh why are the polls very clear on the popularity of Vicarious. More people like it, and not by a small margin.

But why oh why is this forum mainly filled with posts by people who dislike the song. Frustrated little annoying kiddies who are sad because daddy didn't get them a Toolish song?



what is a Toolish song? I simply want the members to keep their artistic integrity and not try to appease shallow assholes that are ok with a recycled Pushit solo and Schism ending.

[varg]

Fuck it.

[dischordance]

Dredg,
Where in Pushit is this solo you're talking about?

[Dredg]

Dredg,
Where in Pushit is this solo you're talking about?

check around 6:55 to 6:58....it is when he begins the tremolo picking..

[T-13h]

You got meshuggah in my APC.

No, you got your APC in my meshuggah!

Two great tastes that taste great together?

[amitface]

Unbiased my ass.

[Jimmeny]

Yeah T-13, I'd like to hear a Tool song that has both Meshuggah and APC in it though.


I can understand peoples reactions to the people who don't like Vicarious, these opinions are being put accross by morons.

However, like it or not, Vicarious recycles other Tool riffs (and the palm muting and tremeloing is NOT Meshuggah, because the palm muting is heard in The Grudge, and tremeloing is heard in Push It etc etc etc)

[T-13h]

Yeah T-13, I'd like to hear a Tool song that has both Meshuggah and APC in it though.


I can understand peoples reactions to the people who don't like Vicarious, these opinions are being put accross by morons.

However, like it or not, Vicarious recycles other Tool riffs (and the palm muting and tremeloing is NOT Meshuggah, because the palm muting is heard in The Grudge, and tremeloing is heard in Push It etc etc etc)

You shouldn't call yourself a rock band if you don't palm-mute. Not really disagreeing with you. Just saying I love palm mutes.

Are we all familiar with the term "homage"?

[Dredg]

You shouldn't call yourself a rock band if you don't palm-mute. Not really disagreeing with you. Just saying I love palm mutes.

Are we all familiar with the term "homage"?


His pam mutes are average at best, they dont sound evil at all - something Adam wanted to accomplish.

[just simulacra]

I noticed that people who "understand music" make some of the most boring, pointless posts in history.

[T-13h]

they dont sound evil at all - something Adam wanted to accomplish.

Are you aiming for satire?

[dracomordag]

quite frankly I am tired of all these dredg references. Quite frankly Leitmotif and el Cielo CRUSH this Vicarious DOWN by a lot.

although i love Vicarious, i must agree here

[waffel]

Atleast the other tool songs coud relate to ALOT of people. This vicarious shit doesnt.

Eye on the TV
Cause tragedy thrills me
Whatever flavor, it happens to be

Yea, maybe for people that watch dogshit network TV or news channels. Not me.

Like about a husband
Drowned by the ocean
Shunned by his own son
He used a poison

In his dream
He kissed her goodbye
It's my kind of story
It's no fun 'til someone dies.

Uh, what? This relates to me how?

Don't look at me like
I am a monster


Uh? Whos going to stare at Maynard like he's a monster? Because of these 'lyrics'?

Stare like a junkie
Into the TV
Stare like a zombie

This is the only part that relates to alot of people.

Whi-le the mother

Who holds her child
Watches him die
Hands to the sky, crying
Why, oh why

Again, what the fuck? This doesnt make any sense. Maybe DO.com messed up the lyrics, because I have no idea what this means.

Cause I need to watch things die, from a distance
Vicariously I
Live while the whole world dies
You all need it too, don't lie

Not bad lyrics, could be screamed for better effect.

Why can't we just admit it [x2]

Admit what? That people like to watch things die from a distance? Ok? Whats admitting this going to accomplish. Nothing. This line must of been ment for personal reflection, except I can't reflect on it much because I dont watch things die from a distance.

We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
Neither brave nor bold
We're writing the stories so,
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing

Very good lyrics. Self explanatory.

Blood like rain come down
Drop and grave and ground

Not sure....

Part vampire, part warrior
Carnivore and voyeur

Good, good...

Still have the transmitter
Sing to the death rattle

La la la la la la la lie [x4]

Sigh. La la la la la? Does that really belong in this song?

Could you at least admit
Your desire to believe in
Angels in the hearts of men

Good shit.

But pull your head on out. Your head believes, so please give a listen
Shouldn't have to say it all again

PLEASE? WTF. PLEASE? This part sounds so pussfied. What happened to TOOL Maynard. This is straight up APC Maynard. PLEASE? Man, the song was really building up to anger then he says PLEASE and 'Shouldn't have to say it all again' I just look at all the other Tool lyrics before hand and now I see this carebear stuff.

The universe is hostile, so impersonal
Devour to survive
So it is. So it's always been

We all feed
On tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire

Vicariously I
Live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I



Awesome end to the song. Very good lyrics.

[T-13h]

Atleast the other tool songs coud relate to ALOT of people. This vicarious shit doesnt.

Eye on the TV
Cause tragedy thrills me
Whatever flavor, it happens to be

Yea, maybe for people that watch dogshit network TV or news channels. Not me.


la la la la la la la lies...

[slicknickshady]

Yes songs about getting molested and ass sex relate to a lot of people waffel. lmfao.

Vicarious relates to more people then Prison Sex and 4 Degrees if thats how you judge things waffle.

[just simulacra]

Atleast the other tool songs coud relate to ALOT of people. This vicarious shit doesnt.

Eye on the TV
Cause tragedy thrills me
Whatever flavor, it happens to be

Yea, maybe for people that watch dogshit network TV or news channels. Not me.

Like about a husband
Drowned by the ocean
Shunned by his own son
He used a poison

In his dream
He kissed her goodbye
It's my kind of story
It's no fun 'til someone dies.

Uh, what? This relates to me how?

Don't look at me like
I am a monster


Uh? Whos going to stare at Maynard like he's a monster? Because of these 'lyrics'?

Stare like a junkie
Into the TV
Stare like a zombie

This is the only part that relates to alot of people.

Whi-le the mother

Who holds her child
Watches him die
Hands to the sky, crying
Why, oh why

Again, what the fuck? This doesnt make any sense. Maybe DO.com messed up the lyrics, because I have no idea what this means.

Cause I need to watch things die, from a distance
Vicariously I
Live while the whole world dies
You all need it too, don't lie

Not bad lyrics, could be screamed for better effect.

Why can't we just admit it [x2]

Admit what? That people like to watch things die from a distance? Ok? Whats admitting this going to accomplish. Nothing. This line must of been ment for personal reflection, except I can't reflect on it much because I dont watch things die from a distance.

We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
Neither brave nor bold
We're writing the stories so,
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing

Very good lyrics. Self explanatory.

Blood like rain come down
Drop and grave and ground

Not sure....

Part vampire, part warrior
Carnivore and voyeur

Good, good...

Still have the transmitter
Sing to the death rattle

La la la la la la la lie [x4]

Sigh. La la la la la? Does that really belong in this song?

Could you at least admit
Your desire to believe in
Angels in the hearts of men

Good shit.

But pull your head on out. Your head believes, so please give a listen
Shouldn't have to say it all again

PLEASE? WTF. PLEASE? This part sounds so pussfied. What happened to TOOL Maynard. This is straight up APC Maynard. PLEASE? Man, the song was really building up to anger then he says PLEASE and 'Shouldn't have to say it all again' I just look at all the other Tool lyrics before hand and now I see this carebear stuff.

The universe is hostile, so impersonal
Devour to survive
So it is. So it's always been

We all feed
On tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire

Vicariously I
Live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I



Awesome end to the song. Very good lyrics.


Honestly man, if you're going to try to critique something by lampooning it, please, make SOMETHING you say INTERESTING/FUNNY/CLEVER/SENSICAL.

You could apply the same, literal, shallow-minded dissection process to ANY of Tool's song.

"I'm not a snake, dude! I don't shed my skin! Get real."

Christ.

[waffel]

They allowed for self reflection. What self refleciton does Vicarious have? "oh noez i watch too much tv"

[Tw1ster]

I dont see why we need to over analyze the song....simple, every song Tool puts out will have people hating and loving it...so why waste our time picking the song apart?....and about the self reflection bullshit, fuck it...go read a book on philosophy if it means that much, this song can still be taken many ways

[slicknickshady]

They allowed for self reflection. What self refleciton does Vicarious have? "oh noez i watch too much tv"


Ass sex and Molesting have more self reflection then Vicarious? Are you high?

[waffel]

Honestly man, if you're going to try to critique something by lampooning it, please, make SOMETHING you say INTERESTING/FUNNY/CLEVER/SENSICAL.

You could apply the same, literal, shallow-minded dissection process to ANY of Tool's song.

"I'm not a snake, dude! I don't shed my skin! Get real."

Christ.


Thanks for offering so much to the discussion.

[slicknickshady]

you better still buy the album waffel because if you dont then you suck.

[just simulacra]

Thanks for offering so much to the discussion.

What exactly did you offer to the discussion?

Again, a boring, nonsensical pisstake on the lyrics?

Give me a break man.

[waffel]

Ass sex and Molesting have more self reflection then Vicarious? Are you high?

Ass sex and molesting wernt radio singles.

[waffel]

What exactly did you offer to the discussion?

Again, a boring, nonsensical pisstake on the lyrics?

Give me a break man.

Give what a break. I'm not allowed to critque the lyrics? On a forum about the song? Prehaps you should offer something on this thread other then "lol ur wrong".

[dracomordag]

Why because i speak the truth? Truth hurts dont it bitch.

go listen to evanescense and cold

oh wait, cold broke up. damn dude. dont die on me.

[Orph8998]

no because you have no backing...other than maybe danny is a better drummer

sorry i ddint see page three
that was ment for slicknickshady

[just simulacra]

Ass sex and molesting wernt radio singles.

Prison Sex was a radio single.
And a video.

And what does being a SINGLE have to do with the song "allowing" self reflection or not?

[T-13h]

They allowed for self reflection. What self refleciton does Vicarious have? "oh noez i watch too much tv"

Your desire to watch things die (from a good safe distance)?

[waffel]

Your desire to watch things die (from a good safe distance)?

This is stupid. I dont like to watch things die. and if I DID like to watch things die, I would probably like to watch it close up because I'd be a sick fuck.

[steve99_9]

They allowed for self reflection. What self refleciton does Vicarious have? "oh noez i watch too much tv"
...you use radio singles from a band for self reflection?? this song isn't meant for self reflection, its not meant to change your life..it is a song..by a band.

[T-13h]

This is stupid. I dont like to watch things die. and if I DID like to watch things die, I would probably like to watch it close up because I'd be a sick fuck.

Hmmmm... well good for you... hmmm...

You do have a kitten in your avatar. What are your feelings about the war in Iraq?

[T-13h]

...you use radio singles from a band for self reflection?? this song isn't meant for self reflection, its not meant to change your life..it is a song..by a band.

Music=Art=Self-reflection.

Period.

.

.

[waffel]

What other question? Pretty much all other tool lyrics are better then Vicarious.

[Orph8998]

off of my guitar atacks...i liked the lyrics and felt as though they connected to me right away
fucking libs like to say "oh india is starving!" "oh africa is dying!" but what do they do? they stay a billion miles away and raise awareness...not even money, awareness
they dont go to africa and die with them
its the theme of our age
sure tool didnt capture this in the most elegant way...but its so true
its the theme of the modern world
thoreau talked about it...we no longer live diliberatly...we are bored zombies

[greghatesthekids]

Three pages later... you're all still jaded dumbass Tool fanboys (and fangirls) if you think this song is on par with everything they've done.

I'm just pointing it out because this band has based itself on it's originality or the fact that it's an "alternative" band. Yeah? Compared to what? All that radio slop? Who cares... that shit's irrelevent. People trump and praise this band endlessly and no one is smart enough to see through their bullshit when it's there. This band has had GREAT moments and I think they should live up to them with EVERYTHING.

You have to keep your emotions in check for survival. I love this band like I love my family, if I felt like somebody in my family wasn't living up to their full potential I'd say something.

[dracomordag]

Music=Art=Self-reflection.

Period.

.

.
truth

and waffel, groggy was reffering to the fact that you said that "those other songs weren't singles"

[waffel]

...you use radio singles from a band for self reflection?? this song isn't meant for self reflection, its not meant to change your life..it is a song..by a band.

Tool songs (save for 50% of vicarious lyrics) arn't "songs by a band" like Greenday's are. They put a little more thought into them. I thought you figured this out already.

[T-13h]

What other question? Pretty much all other tool lyrics are better then Vicarious.

I think Maynard decided people could not, in fact, fucking deal with subtlety. You disagree and I can respect that.

Watch that Thanatos thing, though, might be sneaking up on you.

[waffel]

truth

and waffel, groggy was reffering to the fact that you said that "those other songs weren't singles"

Well what I said made no sence.

[Boozy Eulogist]

"A REAL UNBIASED REVIEW FROM SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS HOW TO LISTEN TO MUSIC AND UNDERSTANDS IT'S STRUCTURE:"

That's not a review, that's a theory summery with some thoughts.

Fun read none the less.

[waffel]

Well, after reading some other lyrics, I'd say DO.com's are shit wrong. The lyrics arnt quite as bad anymore. I dont know where they got "please give a listen from"

[dischordance]

I think Maynard decided people could not, in fact, fucking deal with subtlety.You don't think that's patronising?
In any case, I figured he decided that with Stinkfist (hence the shock-value metaphor) - that song's message is easy enough to recieve without hitting you over the head with it or losing its sense of humour.

I don't think it's a good thing for a lyricist to compromise what they do because someone might not "get" it, or to dumb down what they write in service of whatever grand message they want to send out. No matter how obvious Maynard gets, he's never going to change the world, and only tiny majority are even going to give a shit about what he writes in the first place.

[dfbovey]

This song is about more than just watching TV... it's about watching horrible things on the TV and becoming desensitized. The mass majority of the population of our country watches the news and they sit on their hands and do nothing about what they see. And it's even become entertainment for some.

It does relate to everyone. The lyrics are straight forward because it's meant to be preachy. Maynard wants his lyrics to be a simple slap in the face that everyone understands. I think it's successful in that regard.

[T-13h]

You don't think that's patronising?

Not if he's right.

I agree that he "shouldn't have to say it all again." Oh wait, that's already in the song, almost as if he realizes parts of this message have already been out there.

(ie, repitition for emphasis)

[dischordance]

It does relate to everyone.I watch less than three hours of TV a week, and when I do watch, I watch animated comedy. I have absolutely no clue about politics, what's going in the world, or what the latest movies are in the cinema.
I know people who don't have TVs at all.

Does it relate to us? I don't need Maynard to preach to me because what he's preaching isn't a particularly new or insightful idea. I posted in another thread about how I said something very similar around a month ago (actually more complex - the idea that if we weren't able to live vicariously through salacious serial killer stories we wouldn't be able to vent our negativity or fully develop our morality: I have this idea of opposites, that the contrast between two different types of people sends them further and further away from each other because they increasingly divide themselves with "us/them" mentality), and trust me, I'm no genius.

Truthfully, I don't care about lyrics that much, but when people hail this stuff as amazing, or call it important, it insults my admittedly limited intelligence.

[T-13h]

I watch less than three hours of TV a week, and when I do watch, I watch animated comedy. I have absolutely no clue about politics, what's going in the world, or what the latest movies are in the cinema.
I know people who don't have TVs at all.

Does it relate to us? I don't need Maynard to preach to me because what he's preaching isn't a particularly new or insightful idea. I posted in another thread about how I said something very similar around a month ago (actually more complex - the idea that if we weren't able to live vicariously through salacious serial killer stories we wouldn't be able to vent our negativity or fully develop our morality: I have this idea of opposites, that the contrast between two different types of people sends them further and further away from each other because they increasingly divide themselves with "us/them" mentality), and trust me, I'm no genius.

Truthfully, I don't care about lyrics that much, but when people hail this stuff as amazing, or call it important, it insults my admittedly limited intelligence.

Your intelligence has feelings?

[dischordance]

I agree that he "shouldn't have to say it all again.I don't think he's being repetitive, or retreading old ground with the lyrics. I object to this idea that people can't deal with subtlety, or that he should compromise his shit just because people don't get it.
That said, Maynard didn't come out and say, "People can't deal with subtlety so I'm going to dumb down my lyrics and preach at them and tell them what's what".
We don't know why Vicarious' lyrics are so direct, and I don't care that they are. It's your idea of his motivations behind it that I object to, that's all.

[Perseensilmä]

tell me what's palm mute exactly.. i don't know, english isn't my home language. i probably guess what it is, but you tell me..

Haha. Et sä kyllä varmaan suomeksikaan tajuaisi mistä on kyse. Onkohan sille edes omaa ilmaustakaan?

Kyse on siitä että kämmensyrjällä tukahdutetaan kitarankielet samaan aikaan kun soitetaan niitä. Eli se käsi jolla napsutellaan kieliä (eli juuri se toinen käsi, ei se joka ottaa kaulalta soinnut) samalla tukahduttaa ne kielet. Tätä kikkaa käytetään TODELLA usein ns. raskaassa musiikissa. Voisi sanoa että se on niin saatanan kulunut juttu.

[Loveboat Captain]

When you listen to this song as a whole, you start to appreciate it more. If you listen to all the instruments seperately, you just think "wow, typical tool". It's the arrangements and atmospheres that change between Tool songs. I can hear parts of Flood in 46&2, but the actual songs arent similar. Listen to Vicarious again. Listen to the intro and see if your head doesn't melt. It's such a good example of Tools riffs having a looped, spiral effect which could be called "trippy". It's percect Tool.

[CallofCthulhu]

A REAL "UNBIASED" REVIEW FROM SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS HOW TO LISTEN TO MUSIC AND UNDERSTANDS IT'S STRUCTURE:

0:01-0:46 - You got that walking guitar/bass 10/4 or 5/4 riff in the beginning (exactly like Schism)
0:46-1:08 - Then you get the 5/4 rock riff (which is decent),
1:08-1:28 - then you get that "vaccuum" affect on the intro to the verse/vocals (cheesie) and the vocals are kinda weak, definitely in the background, but for the better... the bass riff is killer. nice n' rolling and throbby.
1:24-1:50 - then feedback- 5/4 guitar riff inside a pre-chorus.
1:51-2:11-2:21 - then back to the verse with another cheesie vaccuum cut.
then in the background you get that same 10/4 or 5/4 Schism riff on the guitar as it rises to
2:22-2:40 - the Chorus which is a 4/4 guitar.
2:41-2:49 - 5/4 Guitar riff.
2:51-3:08 - Then a bridge with the palm-muted guitars.
3:09-3:25 - then the Chorus again.
3:26-4:50 - the a SECOND bridge with some metal palm mutes and 4/4 drum beat and some double bass shit. ... then the tremelo guitar solo ... then that DUMB ASS VACCUUM SHIT AGAIN... stupid cheese ball crap. ... then the la-la-la-la-dies guh-ay... (there's some cool building polyrhythms in here)
4:51-6:20 then the 10/4-5/4 guitar/bass riff with the delay. then it starts building ala typical Tool (don't we rely on these guys to do something NOT typical?) ...
some metal crashy double-bass palm mute (kinda cheesie too)
6:21-6:30 then that pretty cool 5/4 guitar riff.
6:30-7:09 then the breakdown... with the stupid metal double bass shit.
then that rolling 5/4 palm-mute double-bass ending. And it's that same snap vaccuum ending as Schism. They use that vaccuum effect WAAAAY too much.

Seems to me like they're just pulling from old-ideas. There are some original thoughts and ideas in there but not that many. It's just a decent song, but it's a dissappointment for a MUSIC fan coming from a band that has such a big reputation for originality. If you think it's a really great song you're pretty mistaken, you need an unbiased perspective.

This is an editorial: Fanboys put your bias aside when you listen to music. Only reason I say this is because I've been a Tool Fanboy for life (14-15 years +) and this was very difficult for me to write and express.

EDIT: There's no such thing as a totally unbiased review. You shouldn't call me a moron because you're a moron for not knowing that to begin with. Takes one to know one. I'm not telling you not the like the song, and I'm not saying this is a bad song, I'm just pointing out the inconsistancies. Fuck you if you think I'm a moron, I learned the fucking song.

"stupid metal double bass" is not unbiased

[TheHolyGift]

Are we listening to the same song? I fucking love Vicarious. Maynard's vocals are giving me fuckin chills. As for the lyrics, they were in the vein of what I expected, but shatter my expectations. And the intro - THE EXACT SAME AS SCHISM? What the hell are you talking about? Again, are we listening to the same song?

[joshls]

When has tool ever released a fake tool song?

[Away in the sea of red]

can someone please pm me the link or just how to get it. thanks

[jitbox]

A REAL "UNBIASED" REVIEW FROM SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS HOW TO LISTEN TO MUSIC AND UNDERSTANDS IT'S STRUCTURE:
This should be appended to the end of that sentence:

BUT NOT THE STRUCTURE OF ENGLISH GRAMMAR

[Cid]

Vicarious lyrics > Stinkfist lyrics.

i like vicarious, but there's no way it's better than stinkfist in any way.

[ALIvingGrudge]

EDIT: There's no such thing as a totally unbiased review. You shouldn't call me a moron because you're a moron for not knowing that to begin with. Takes one to know one. I'm not telling you not the like the song, and I'm not saying this is a bad song, I'm just pointing out the inconsistancies. Fuck you if you think I'm a moron, I learned the fucking song.

umm... all you do is talk about how bad the song is, making this a totally biased review. you obviously don't know what unbiased means

[Trevolver]

I'm sorta hating myself right now for not getting into this song... I reeeally want to like it...

high expectations are a terrible thing. :( I just don't feel much of anything with vicarious. With all due respect to these artists, it might just be where I'M at right now. I imagine the song will find some place for me later on.

Trev

[ALIvingGrudge]

I'm sorta hating myself right now for not getting into this song... I reeeally want to like it...

high expectations are a terrible thing. :( I just don't feel much of anything with vicarious. With all due respect to these artists, it might just be where I'M at right now. I imagine the song will find some place for me later on.

Trev
that's why i always tell myself the song is gunna suck before i hear it

[Cid]

This is stupid. I dont like to watch things die. and if I DID like to watch things die, I would probably like to watch it close up because I'd be a sick fuck.

then it's not about you. does everything have to be about you or something? it's a general commentary on a good portion of society. i'm sure tool is very sorry that this song doesn't cater to you personally this time.

[Orph8998]

for all you guys out there who say "you have to listen to it as a whole" and stuff like that
i would like to know what tool does that the mars volta does not

[Cid]

i give a fuck about what kind've music the band makes as a whole.

"kind've" ?!?!? that's hilarious.

[harmonyofdissonance]

i cannot understand, why people say, the lyrics are shitty??? They cover a problem of modern civilization.... anyone noticed that everyday 50 people die in car bombings in iraq? Cruel thing,I know, but nobody i interested, because it happens everyday.Thats the point.... Regarding music, its a fuckin single, its not a third eye.... the rest of the album contains some 20 min pieces of music, ther youll get your fuckin inovative music. This song is supposed to rock you, and it does...

[dischordance]

"kind've" ?!?!? that's hilarious.Why so?i cannot understand, why people say, the lyrics are shitty??? They cover a problem of modern civilizationI guess Black Eyed Peas' Where is the Love has the best lyrics ever, then, right? Or System of a Down are the most lyrically brilliant band of all time?

[harmonyofdissonance]

Why so?I guess Black Eyed Peas' Where is the Love has the best lyrics ever, then, right? Or System of a Down are the most lyrically brilliant band of all time?


whats so bad about the lyrics? Make it better...

[Cid]

Why so?

he meant to say "kind of" and instead used a contraction that i've never seen that means "kind have".

[dischordance]

he meant to say "kind of" and instead used a contraction that i've never seen that means "kind have".I've heard people use the word "kind've" before. I may have used it myself, I dunno.
You don't often see it written because even when it's not intentional, people prefer to formalise the way they speak. I liked that he wrote it that way, actually.whats so bad about the lyrics? Make it better...I'm not really saying they're bad. I'm saying that just because they address some sort of social issue, does not mean they're automatically brilliant.
I think they're kind of preachy and hilarious myself, but, uh, I don't care about lyrics enough to declare them "bad" or to hate them or anything.

Edit - Cid, I just realised what you're getting at. Ooops...

[ALIvingGrudge]

i like vicarious, but there's no way it's better than stinkfist in any way.
i know people are gunna hate me for this, but i think vicarious is better than stinkfist. In fact, stinkfist was towards the bottom of my list of aenima songs.

[StoneyB]

I like Vicarious a lot. People who are saying Tool has sold out need to realize that Tool is technically obligated to write at least one single for radio. Look at schism and stinkfist. Those were the shortest songs on Ænima and Lateralus. I still think stinkfist and schism are two of the weaker tracks off those albums. I bet we can expect a bit more from the rest of the album.

[waffel]

i cannot understand, why people say, the lyrics are shitty??? They cover a problem of modern civilization.... anyone noticed that everyday 50 people die in car bombings in iraq? Cruel thing,I know, but nobody i interested, because it happens everyday.

Nobody is interested because 99.9% of the people in the world cant do shit about it.

[Metalhos]

A REAL "UNBIASED" REVIEW FROM SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS HOW TO LISTEN TO MUSIC AND UNDERSTANDS IT'S STRUCTURE:

0:01-7:09

[....kind of interesting but overall senseless blah....]



you have totally failed in connecting lyrics, music and mood.

[Orph8998]

you can take you good education and more to africa and work with the aid tribes and try to help them

[Metalhos]

for all you guys out there who say "you have to listen to it as a whole" and stuff like that
i would like to know what tool does that the mars volta does not

delivering something that makes sense.

(don't get me wrong - i like senseless music, i love mars volta.)

[dischordance]

you have totally failed in connecting lyrics, music and mood.No, it was Tool that did that.

HO-HO!!!

[slicknickshady]

Tool OWNS the haters.

[Orph8998]

but then the mars volta's lyrics sound nicer...so as far as i see it...they balance out

[harmonyofdissonance]

Nobody is interested because 99.9% of the people in the world cant do shit about it.


We cant do a shit about it? go on a fuckin island and live for yourself...
You proofed Maynard right with this sentence. Sad world were livin in.
Start doing something. And if itsjust be kind to somebody. Youre so desensitized and lazy.

If a car bomb would explode right in front of the empire state building you would be interested. Altough you could do a fuck about it right? Its no matter for you, because it happens far away, but does it mean, that its less cruel?????

[Woland]

A REAL "UNBIASED" REVIEW FROM SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS HOW TO LISTEN TO MUSIC AND UNDERSTANDS IT'S STRUCTURE:

0:01-0:46 - You got that walking guitar/bass 10/4 or 5/4 riff in the beginning (exactly like Schism)
0:46-1:08 - Then you get the 5/4 rock riff (which is decent),
1:08-1:28 - then you get that "vaccuum" affect on the intro to the verse/vocals (cheesie) and the vocals are kinda weak, definitely in the background, but for the better... the bass riff is killer. nice n' rolling and throbby.
1:24-1:50 - then feedback- 5/4 guitar riff inside a pre-chorus.
1:51-2:11-2:21 - then back to the verse with another cheesie vaccuum cut.
then in the background you get that same 10/4 or 5/4 Schism riff on the guitar as it rises to
2:22-2:40 - the Chorus which is a 4/4 guitar.
2:41-2:49 - 5/4 Guitar riff.
2:51-3:08 - Then a bridge with the palm-muted guitars.
3:09-3:25 - then the Chorus again.
3:26-4:50 - the a SECOND bridge with some metal palm mutes and 4/4 drum beat and some double bass shit. ... then the tremelo guitar solo ... then that DUMB ASS VACCUUM SHIT AGAIN... stupid cheese ball crap. ... then the la-la-la-la-dies guh-ay... (there's some cool building polyrhythms in here)
4:51-6:20 then the 10/4-5/4 guitar/bass riff with the delay. then it starts building ala typical Tool (don't we rely on these guys to do something NOT typical?) ...
some metal crashy double-bass palm mute (kinda cheesie too)
6:21-6:30 then that pretty cool 5/4 guitar riff.
6:30-7:09 then the breakdown... with the stupid metal double bass shit.
then that rolling 5/4 palm-mute double-bass ending. And it's that same snap vaccuum ending as Schism. They use that vaccuum effect WAAAAY too much.

Seems to me like they're just pulling from old-ideas. There are some original thoughts and ideas in there but not that many. It's just a decent song, but it's a dissappointment for a MUSIC fan coming from a band that has such a big reputation for originality. If you think it's a really great song you're pretty mistaken, you need an unbiased perspective.

This is an editorial: Fanboys put your bias aside when you listen to music. Only reason I say this is because I've been a Tool Fanboy for life (14-15 years +) and this was very difficult for me to write and express.

EDIT: There's no such thing as a totally unbiased review. You shouldn't call me a moron because you're a moron for not knowing that to begin with. Takes one to know one. I'm not telling you not the like the song, and I'm not saying this is a bad song, I'm just pointing out the inconsistancies. Fuck you if you think I'm a moron, I learned the fucking song.

Tool is laughing at you right now...

[slicknickshady]

It's blasphamy to mention mars volta being as good as tool. I like them but they are like #23, #24 on my list.

[waffel]

Yea its such a sad world we live in, Oh no, people are dying, such a sad world. If we lived in a better world nobody would die and we could all hold hands and sing together.

If someone wants to jihad-jeep into a shopping mall there isnt shit im going to do to stop it, prevent it, or fix it. I got better things to worry about like buying more liquor, finding a job, posting on an internet message board and figuring out what im doing this weekend.

[harmonyofdissonance]

It's blasphamy to mention mars volta being as good as tool. I like them but they are like #23, #24 on my list.


Mars volta are great. Progressive musicians, great sound... just listen to via viaquez

[cr0nick]

i'm laughing at the majority of tnd members who believe vicarious is some sort of gift from the heavens.

i'm not "hating" on tool. but vicarious is far from great.

[swash]

I dont know how anybody can apperciate a song that has the SAME exact Guitar solo as in Pushit 6:55 into the song...its just retarded. I cant believe the band felt like keeping that in this new song.

A song's value isn't necessarily defined by its originality. They're stilling playing with guitars and basses and drums, after all. Adam's riffs are pretty recognizable. His style is easy to pick-up on. In that regard, all Tool songs are similar. People judge music from their own subjective point of view. There's no such thing as an objectively good song. Isn't that obvious?

[slicknickshady]

i'm laughing at the majority of tnd members who believe vicarious is some sort of gift from the heavens.

i'm not "hating" on tool. but vicarious is far from great.

It is AWESOME and The Best Song in the Last 5 years.

Mars volta are great. Progressive musicians, great sound... just listen to via viaquez

I have the album, they are not even close to TOOL.



And Dredg it is not the same as 6:55 into Pushit.

[Orph8998]

but still some talented guitarists like blur's old one can pull new tricks out and totally change their style with every song

[Bob_Marley_Wannabe]

A REAL "UNBIASED" REVIEW FROM SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS HOW TO LISTEN TO MUSIC AND UNDERSTANDS IT'S STRUCTURE:

0:01-0:46 - You got that walking guitar/bass 10/4 or 5/4 riff in the beginning (exactly like Schism)
0:46-1:08 - Then you get the 5/4 rock riff (which is decent),
1:08-1:28 - then you get that "vaccuum" affect on the intro to the verse/vocals (cheesie) and the vocals are kinda weak, definitely in the background, but for the better... the bass riff is killer. nice n' rolling and throbby.
1:24-1:50 - then feedback- 5/4 guitar riff inside a pre-chorus.
1:51-2:11-2:21 - then back to the verse with another cheesie vaccuum cut.
then in the background you get that same 10/4 or 5/4 Schism riff on the guitar as it rises to
2:22-2:40 - the Chorus which is a 4/4 guitar.
2:41-2:49 - 5/4 Guitar riff.
2:51-3:08 - Then a bridge with the palm-muted guitars.
3:09-3:25 - then the Chorus again.
3:26-4:50 - the a SECOND bridge with some metal palm mutes and 4/4 drum beat and some double bass shit. ... then the tremelo guitar solo ... then that DUMB ASS VACCUUM SHIT AGAIN... stupid cheese ball crap. ... then the la-la-la-la-dies guh-ay... (there's some cool building polyrhythms in here)
4:51-6:20 then the 10/4-5/4 guitar/bass riff with the delay. then it starts building ala typical Tool (don't we rely on these guys to do something NOT typical?) ...
some metal crashy double-bass palm mute (kinda cheesie too)
6:21-6:30 then that pretty cool 5/4 guitar riff.
6:30-7:09 then the breakdown... with the stupid metal double bass shit.
then that rolling 5/4 palm-mute double-bass ending. And it's that same snap vaccuum ending as Schism. They use that vaccuum effect WAAAAY too much.

Seems to me like they're just pulling from old-ideas. There are some original thoughts and ideas in there but not that many. It's just a decent song, but it's a dissappointment for a MUSIC fan coming from a band that has such a big reputation for originality. If you think it's a really great song you're pretty mistaken, you need an unbiased perspective.

This is an editorial: Fanboys put your bias aside when you listen to music. Only reason I say this is because I've been a Tool Fanboy for life (14-15 years +) and this was very difficult for me to write and express.

EDIT: There's no such thing as a totally unbiased review. You shouldn't call me a moron because you're a moron for not knowing that to begin with. Takes one to know one. I'm not telling you not the like the song, and I'm not saying this is a bad song, I'm just pointing out the inconsistancies. Fuck you if you think I'm a moron, I learned the fucking song.



just cause something's complex doesnt make it good and vice versa. dude, really was this a sad attempt to "show us how much you know about rock and music" for that matter, as if anyone actually gives a shit what you think. go suck on the end of a 12 gauge

[Harry Manback]

I just listen to music, I don't want fucking commentary. Listen, don't analyze.

[dischordance]

but still some talented guitarists like blur's old one can pull new tricks out and totally change their style with every song+1
Graham Coxon is brilliant.
I mentioned that the solos from 13 are my favourite ever, and very immediately got shot down by a bunch of metalheads who've never even heard the fucken thing.

[Vaginal Replicator]

The song is good, the band is at a peak right now, this record will blow many out of the water.

Every Tool record includes bits and pieces of the others, so honestly, stop complaining, if Tool completely changed styles I can guarantee we wouldn't like it.

[swash]

but still some talented guitarists like blur's old one can pull new tricks out and totally change their style with every song

Yup, but the point is that switching styles doesn't necessarily make for good music. You can make things worse by fucking with your style, right?

[eddie75]

I disagree with the fact that that post was supposed to be an editorial. It's just incoherent rambling...
I agree with you, plus it was anything but unbiased. If it was an editorial it wouldn't try to tell people they are wrong for thinking it's a great song.

I think TOOL has gone the right way with this song. It's got a more aggressive sound than some of their recent stuff. I like the fact that maynard uses some of his well known range, it changes quite a bit giving off different emotions through the music, it kind of show cases each of the instruments, and it rocks. I've been a TOOL fan since Undertow and this song exceeded my expectations. Can't wait for the album. I latched onto this song faster than any song on lateralus, and it reminds me of how I felt when Stink Fist first aired.

[Virginity Trey]

It is nice when you are completely ignorant about song structure, guitars, and riffs (I admit I am). When you have never played a guitar in your life, you don't analyze the structure or the difficulty of playing the song.

You just listen and take what you can from it. Either you enjoy it or you don't. Either it is inspiring, makes you think or has some kind of impact on you, or it doesn't. This song made me think alot about how we live (song making me think = good), and it's fucking enjoyable to listen to (fucking enjoyable to listen to = good). I don't give a shit if the intro is 4/5 or 82763/287634. I don't care how difficult it is to play. The goal of better musicians is not to impress other musicians. Stop overanalyzing.

[trickma]

Maynard was with APC during 3 years of that 5 years. So it was really a 2 year wait. .

So your saying tool is all about maynard...?

[Xariable]

Review is very biased. It shows when you miss large parts of the song (i.e. bass line to "when the blood is flowing"). Yes, you skipped it. Why wasn't it worth mentioning in your unbiased review?

Most of your review was subjective.

Your second count strays.

get a dictionary.

review the essence of capitalism.

realize what you're saying.

"go suck on the end of a 12 gauge" (Bob_Marley_Wannabe )

[Cid]

It's blasphamy to mention mars volta being as good as tool. I like them but they are like #23, #24 on my list.

no way mars volta is better than tool, but 23 or 24? i bet eminem is higher up on the list than them for you. that's blasphemy.

[slicknickshady]

actually i have a seperate list for rappers. if i ranked artists Tool would be #1, Eminem would be #2, and A Perfect Circle would be #3.

[dischordance]

no way mars volta is better than tool, but 23 or 24? i bet eminem is higher up on the list than them for you. that's blasphemy.....


Seriously, how many of you freaks have gigantic lists figured out scientifically ranking your top 50 favourite bands in meticulously thought-out order?

I also prefer Eminem to Mars Volta. Mars Volta are #593 on my list.

[138148]

0:01-0:46 - You got that walking guitar/bass 10/4 or 5/4 riff in the beginning (exactly like Schism)

Very little 5 count stuff in Schism. The majority of Schism resolves to a 12/8.


1:24-1:50 - then feedback- 5/4 guitar riff inside a pre-chorus.

Don't forget the 6/4 stuff in there as well


2:22-2:40 - the Chorus which is a 4/4 guitar.

The 1st chorus and second chorus are a 6/4 - 4/4 variation.



3:26-4:50 - the a SECOND bridge with some metal palm mutes and 4/4 drum beat

The second bridge is in 5/4 as is this whole section.



6:21-6:30 then that pretty cool 5/4 guitar riff.

Actually 2 5/4 measures and 1 6/4 measure


6:30-7:09 then the breakdown... with the stupid metal double bass shit.
then that rolling 5/4 palm-mute double-bass ending.

Chorus here is straight 6/4. Then the 5/4 riff at 6:50. The ending is 2/4 or 4/4.

[doggy]

ya know what? all of you who supposedly worship tool,but at the same time bash their new song,need your heads checked! this song is by far the best thing i have heard since.....lateralus! imagine that! you dont like the song because it doesnt sound like aenima or lateralus? good!!!! that is what is called progressive music!!!! that is why tool will always succeed!! they have found a way to not limit themselves. i dont want to be expecting to hear aenima 2 or lateralus 2!!! if you wanna hear the same album recycled over and over and over, maybe AC/DC would better suit you.

[CrazyJoeDevola]

A five year rush.....

(Like Dredg is any good.)

Why don't people realise this album was not five years in the making


May 15, 2001 - Lateralus Released
May 2001 thru Nov 2002 - On Tour
April 2004 (Approx) - Danny, Adam, Justin start jamming for new record
Late '04 to Early '05 (Approx) - Maynard comes back to start penning lyrics and giving input
May 2006 - Album released.

In what way was this album being made for five years? I'm pretty sure the band themselves have mentioned in on of the recent interviews that this record is about a year and a half in the making. The latter half of the timeline are approximations based on memory. I'm sure someone will have an exact timeline based on toolband posts.

[slicknickshady]

we know the album is not 5 years in the making. what im saying at least is we have waited 5 years for a new album.

[Alex in Chains]

The ending is 2/4 or 4/4.

12/8.

[CalfMan]

Nobody is interested because 99.9% of the people in the world cant do shit about it.


Aww, you were so close, but no one put it together. I forget exactly what the other post was, but someone was pointing out "I dont watch tv so it doesnt relate to me" or some bullshit. That is exactly Maynards point, no one cares. And the above quote drives that home even more: you are saying that 99.9% of all people cant collectively overcome the ignorance and issues caused by the other 0.1%? If people like you would stop being so god damn selfish and contribute some change could happen. Case in point: Live 8

to quote the most of your "99.9%":

[videos of soldiers in Iraq]
99.9%er: Aww, thats awful, is Desperate Housewives on yet?

[138148]

12/8.

Its only 12/8 if you make each pair of triplets represent 3 beats. But if you retain the same beat from the rest of the song, each pair of triplets is 1 beat.

[mk5]

i guess adam said on the guitar world interview that they took one year to write all songs in the album but one that was put together in studio. SOmething they've done in past albums, he says.

[Alex in Chains]

Its only 12/8 if you make each pair of triplets represent 3 beats. But if you retain the same beat from the rest of the song, each pair of triplets is 1 beat.

Agreed. Well played.

[mike09]

How was your review non-biased?

[voleurz]

How was your review non-biased?
he used lots of big ocnfusing words that made him sound smart and superrior.. duh.

[mike09]

he used lots of big ocnfusing words that made him sound smart and superrior.. duh.

don't forget calling everything he didn't like "stupid"

[Khaotic]

If none of you can tell that TOOL has reused old ryhtyms and melodies, you need to listen to the older albums more. Vicarious is a decent song, thats it. Its not a musical revalation. This is obviously the song they made to get people to buy the record. They don't need to hook long time TOOL fans, because they will buy the record whether they release a single or not. This single is made to sound mainstream so that newer listeners will be more compelled to buy the record. Afterall, they are just trying to make money.

I like the message in the song, and i like the rhythms. I am dissapointed though. Dissapointed because I liked it on the first listens. It took me awhile to actually like lateralus. Songs that are great on the first listen are catchy songs that get into people's heads so they will go out and buy the record. This is the first TOOL song that has been stuck in my head, sadly. The only other ones that came close would be Schism and Hooker With a Penis. Most TOOL songs are dynamic and constantly changing into new rhythms and melodies.

This is very watered down TOOL. Yes, the song has all the elements of TOOL, which makes it decent, but this is not even close to their best songs to date.

[Khaotic]

i cant believe i joined this message board. most of you are fuckin super opinionated elitist bastards that have perpetual pms. who gives a fuck, its a fuckin song. isnt music supposed to bring people together, and make everyone happy? if this song makes someone happy, then why do you care if it sucks or not, or if the lyrics connect to people. its music, not politics people, no need for a heated arguement. chill, smoke a joint and shut up, fuckers.

Yeah, we do need to get off of our high horses. We should stop being so cynical, but its what keeps us from blindly liking anything. I want to respect the art.

BUT your right, if it inspires people then so be it. If people get something good from it then let them love it. Afterall the Backstreet boys touched so many young girls hearts out there and no harm came to them.

[paraflux]

A REAL "UNBIASED" REVIEW FROM SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS HOW TO LISTEN TO MUSIC AND UNDERSTANDS IT'S STRUCTURE:

0:01-0:46 - You got that walking guitar/bass 10/4 or 5/4 riff in the beginning (exactly like Schism)
0:46-1:08 - Then you get the 5/4 rock riff (which is decent),
1:08-1:28 - then you get that "vaccuum" affect on the intro to the verse/vocals (cheesie) and the vocals are kinda weak, definitely in the background, but for the better... the bass riff is killer. nice n' rolling and throbby.
1:24-1:50 - then feedback- 5/4 guitar riff inside a pre-chorus.
1:51-2:11-2:21 - then back to the verse with another cheesie vaccuum cut.
then in the background you get that same 10/4 or 5/4 Schism riff on the guitar as it rises to
2:22-2:40 - the Chorus which is a 4/4 guitar.
2:41-2:49 - 5/4 Guitar riff.
2:51-3:08 - Then a bridge with the palm-muted guitars.
3:09-3:25 - then the Chorus again.
3:26-4:50 - the a SECOND bridge with some metal palm mutes and 4/4 drum beat and some double bass shit. ... then the tremelo guitar solo ... then that DUMB ASS VACCUUM SHIT AGAIN... stupid cheese ball crap. ... then the la-la-la-la-dies guh-ay... (there's some cool building polyrhythms in here)
4:51-6:20 then the 10/4-5/4 guitar/bass riff with the delay. then it starts building ala typical Tool (don't we rely on these guys to do something NOT typical?) ...
some metal crashy double-bass palm mute (kinda cheesie too)
6:21-6:30 then that pretty cool 5/4 guitar riff.
6:30-7:09 then the breakdown... with the stupid metal double bass shit.
then that rolling 5/4 palm-mute double-bass ending. And it's that same snap vaccuum ending as Schism. They use that vaccuum effect WAAAAY too much.
This part is not a review. This part is an attempt to describe what is going on in the feeble mind of this individual who "listened" to the song. How the fuck could someone call something unbiased while using the terms "dumb ass vacuum sound" and "stupid metal double-bass shit."

Seems to me like they're just pulling from old-ideas. There are some original thoughts and ideas in there but not that many. It's just a decent song, but it's a dissappointment for a MUSIC fan coming from a band that has such a big reputation for originality. If you think it's a really great song you're pretty mistaken, you need an unbiased perspective.
Ohhhhhhhh, now I get it. It's the old "breaking out the ruler to measure genitalia" attitude that entirely too many underground band members have. I witnessed it for 6 years and it is disgusting. This is a guy who is "in a band" (which has absolutely nothing to do with being a good listener) so therefore he is some goddamned expert. And he's right, in the sense that he can break down a song from time 1 to time 2, and try to describe it in it's most mundane form. But those who simply look at structure and formulate the song's worth based on their own lame attempt to hear it is just too much for me.

This is an editorial: Fanboys put your bias aside when you listen to music. Only reason I say this is because I've been a Tool Fanboy for life (14-15 years +) and this was very difficult for me to write and express.
Perhaps the problem with you is that you were a fanboi in the first fucking place. What, I'm gonna trust someone who describes themselves as a recovering fanboi? pff

EDIT: There's no such thing as a totally unbiased review. You shouldn't call me a moron because you're a moron for not knowing that to begin with. Takes one to know one. I'm not telling you not the like the song, and I'm not saying this is a bad song, I'm just pointing out the inconsistancies. Fuck you if you think I'm a moron, I learned the fucking song.
w00t @ your "knowledge" being priceless. Learn to fucking listen. Then you can learn the fucking song.

*goes to read the rest of the thread*

edit: I should have said "moderate" the rest of this thread, fuck.

[paraflux]

Three pages later... you're all still jaded dumbass Tool fanboys (and fangirls) if you think this song is on par with everything they've done.
Wait... so for 12-14 years or however the fuck long you said it was... not only were you a fanboi, but you were a "jaded dumbass Tool fanboy?" YOu're right, this song isnt just on par with everything else they've done. It's better than that.

I'm just pointing it out because this band has based itself on it's originality or the fact that it's an "alternative" band. Yeah? Compared to what?
Tell me where the band ever described [i] themselves" as an alternative band.
All that radio slop? Who cares... that shit's irrelevent. People trump and praise this band endlessly and no one is smart enough to see through their bullshit when it's there. This band has had GREAT moments and I think they should live up to them with EVERYTHING.
And they have.

You have to keep your emotions in check for survival. I love this band like I love my family, if I felt like somebody in my family wasn't living up to their full potential I'd say something.
lol. What a hero. My emotions have nothing to do with this, this forum has actually suppressed my excitement for the new album because I do not particularly care to associate myself with 80% of the people here who call themselves fans. It's depressing, but this is even more depressing.

[paraflux]

It is nice when you are completely ignorant about song structure, guitars, and riffs (I admit I am). When you have never played a guitar in your life, you don't analyze the structure or the difficulty of playing the song.

You just listen and take what you can from it. Either you enjoy it or you don't. Either it is inspiring, makes you think or has some kind of impact on you, or it doesn't. This song made me think alot about how we live (song making me think = good), and it's fucking enjoyable to listen to (fucking enjoyable to listen to = good). I don't give a shit if the intro is 4/5 or 82763/287634. I don't care how difficult it is to play. The goal of better musicians is not to impress other musicians. Stop overanalyzing.

Thank you. Your opinion has more weight with me than that of the original poster. Sometimes I wish I didnt play anything because I feel out of touch with the vision instead of the structure and techniques.

[paraflux]

If none of you can tell that TOOL has reused old ryhtyms and melodies, you need to listen to the older albums more. Vicarious is a decent song, thats it. Its not a musical revalation. This is obviously the song they made to get people to buy the record. They don't need to hook long time TOOL fans, because they will buy the record whether they release a single or not. This single is made to sound mainstream so that newer listeners will be more compelled to buy the record. Afterall, they are just trying to make money.
If you had read kabir's review, you would have noticed that he said you will hear progressive throwbacks to other past tool songs, reflections. I like the idea, and schism came to mind during parts of vicarious.

[Khaotic]

If you had read kabir's review, you would have noticed that he said you will hear progressive throwbacks to other past tool songs, reflections. I like the idea, and schism came to mind during parts of vicarious.


I did read it. Progressive Throwbacks, what is that. Sounds like something nickleback does, oh wait they have done that.

No, Im not comparing TOOL to nickleback. In my opinion TOOL's shits are more artistic. With that said, It is my opinion that this song is just a rehashing of past rhythms and melodies. A blender of TOOL songs of a sort. Thats my opinion. It came out pretty good, but just not what I was expecting. Which also isn't a bad thing except to me.

[intoaneye]

If none of you can tell that TOOL has reused old ryhtyms and melodies, you need to listen to the older albums more. Vicarious is a decent song, thats it. Its not a musical revalation. This is obviously the song they made to get people to buy the record. They don't need to hook long time TOOL fans, because they will buy the record whether they release a single or not. This single is made to sound mainstream so that newer listeners will be more compelled to buy the record. Afterall, they are just trying to make money.

I like the message in the song, and i like the rhythms. I am dissapointed though. Dissapointed because I liked it on the first listens. It took me awhile to actually like lateralus. Songs that are great on the first listen are catchy songs that get into people's heads so they will go out and buy the record. This is the first TOOL song that has been stuck in my head, sadly. The only other ones that came close would be Schism and Hooker With a Penis. Most TOOL songs are dynamic and constantly changing into new rhythms and melodies.

This is very watered down TOOL. Yes, the song has all the elements of TOOL, which makes it decent, but this is not even close to their best songs to date.
If you understand the song isnt for you but for the mainstream how can you be dissapointed?. You should know better then be dissapointed. You should be with tool on this since you understand.

[tyroneslothrop]

A REAL "UNBIASED" REVIEW FROM SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS HOW TO LISTEN TO MUSIC AND UNDERSTANDS IT'S STRUCTURE:

0:01-0:46 - You got that walking guitar/bass 10/4 or 5/4 riff in the beginning (exactly like Schism)
0:46-1:08 - Then you get the 5/4 rock riff (which is decent),
1:08-1:28 - then you get that "vaccuum" affect on the intro to the verse/vocals (cheesie) and the vocals are kinda weak, definitely in the background, but for the better... the bass riff is killer. nice n' rolling and throbby.
1:24-1:50 - then feedback- 5/4 guitar riff inside a pre-chorus.
1:51-2:11-2:21 - then back to the verse with another cheesie vaccuum cut.
then in the background you get that same 10/4 or 5/4 Schism riff on the guitar as it rises to
2:22-2:40 - the Chorus which is a 4/4 guitar.
2:41-2:49 - 5/4 Guitar riff.
2:51-3:08 - Then a bridge with the palm-muted guitars.
3:09-3:25 - then the Chorus again.
3:26-4:50 - the a SECOND bridge with some metal palm mutes and 4/4 drum beat and some double bass shit. ... then the tremelo guitar solo ... then that DUMB ASS VACCUUM SHIT AGAIN... stupid cheese ball crap. ... then the la-la-la-la-dies guh-ay... (there's some cool building polyrhythms in here)
4:51-6:20 then the 10/4-5/4 guitar/bass riff with the delay. then it starts building ala typical Tool (don't we rely on these guys to do something NOT typical?) ...
some metal crashy double-bass palm mute (kinda cheesie too)
6:21-6:30 then that pretty cool 5/4 guitar riff.
6:30-7:09 then the breakdown... with the stupid metal double bass shit.
then that rolling 5/4 palm-mute double-bass ending. And it's that same snap vaccuum ending as Schism. They use that vaccuum effect WAAAAY too much.

Seems to me like they're just pulling from old-ideas. There are some original thoughts and ideas in there but not that many. It's just a decent song, but it's a dissappointment for a MUSIC fan coming from a band that has such a big reputation for originality. If you think it's a really great song you're pretty mistaken, you need an unbiased perspective.

This is an editorial: Fanboys put your bias aside when you listen to music. Only reason I say this is because I've been a Tool Fanboy for life (14-15 years +) and this was very difficult for me to write and express.

EDIT: There's no such thing as a totally unbiased review. You shouldn't call me a moron because you're a moron for not knowing that to begin with. Takes one to know one. I'm not telling you not the like the song, and I'm not saying this is a bad song, I'm just pointing out the inconsistancies. Fuck you if you think I'm a moron, I learned the fucking song.

"what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

[EulogyCallinMe]

paraflux is the only one who got everything right in this thread.
un·bi·ased also un·bi·assed ( P ) adj.
Without bias or prejudice; impartial.
Free from favoritism, self-interest, or preference in judgment.


"DUMB ASS VACCUUM SHIT AGAIN... stupid cheese ball crap. ... then the la-la-la-la-dies guh-ay...
They use that vaccuum effect WAAAAY too much.
stupid metal double bass shit."

ok. those are opinions, which by definiton are not unbiased, therefore making the first post, and whole subject for debate, null and void because greghatesthekids was not able to deliver a review without throwing in his own personal judgement and preferences. good idea for a thread, but it may be better served to be started by someone with an IQ greater than that of a salad fork, and perhaps someone with some literary comprehension. I'm not even asking for a lot just...some.

[Khaotic]

If you understand the song isnt for you but for the mainstream how can you be dissapointed?. You should know better then be dissapointed. You should be with tool on this since you understand.


Im dissapointed because I have waited awhile for a new tool song. No, im not crushed and my day went normally. It has not lower my view on the rest of the album either. I got my hopes up to say, but that is not a bad thing. Maybe ill be more impressed with the entire album.

[paraflux]

Thread locked.

http://toolnavy.com/showthread.php?t=41047

This section is for "the SONG, the MUSIC, the LYRICS, the MEANINGS, NEWS about the song, even TABS are ok with us, etc..." Not reviews.