importance of vicarious/crossroads as a global entity

[prometheus jones]

I have been a longtime lurker of this board. Since not too long after aenima and well before lateralus i have read opinions and check the news page. Having said that, I think that the song is exactly what is needed in the world today. Despite what some may think about Tool's motives, as artists, it is my opinion that they must feel some sort of moral obligation to help the world. As it stands, we are at the crossroads, whether or not you are aware of what is happening to our world does not change the fact that is has happened. We are living in the beginnings of an absurd hybrid of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World and George Orwell's 1984. It is spreading.

Lateralus came out about 4 months before 9/11. The message of the album is one of self realization. Finding the Christ/enlightened/transcendant self in all of us. However, once one comes to terms with the self, it becomes quite apparent that the world has lost its "self". The world is a much different place than it was when Tool released Lateralus. We are heading toward a global police state. Now whether or not 9/11 or the Iraq War have impacted your life, it soon will. We are debt slaves.
Now we have the tentatively titled 10000 days. Which brings me to my thoughts on Vicarious. As a person who stopped watching television over a year ago, I can tell you that it is the single greatest weapon that the "powers that be" have to control the masses. I think Vicarious is effective. Without the standard metaphorical/ambiguous approach that Maynard usually utilizes, he and the band have made a statement and I have to agree. I think that musically it combines a little bit of everything they have done. I think it is progressive. I think it fucking rocks. But the important thing is to continue to think for ourselves. And I honestly believe that turning off the TV is one of the most important things that we as human beings can do to help wake ourselves up. This is why I think vicarious is a great song and I look forward to listening to the rest of the album on may 2nd.

Anyway I am sorry that I wrote such a long first post. But I feel that an older and wiser crowd that would reply to this post would read what I have to say. I am not worried about getting flamed or anything like that. I challenge all readers in this forum who really do think for themselves to question the official 9/11 story and research the direction this country is taking. A good place to start is www.whatreallyhappened.com and www.kurtnimmo.com .

It is important that our generation stand up now. We can change the cycle. Turn off the TV and prepare to take action in whatever form you can provide for the rest of the world.

[prometheus jones]

please discuss

[Kaoticz]

Agreed.

[intoaneye]

I like the message of the song. And when the tv isnt on i go out in the real world and i still feel like im apart of the tv. To our references, to our gossip, to our comparisons, the list goes on. So the thing that bothers me is about the only place i can go to feel realness, would be like nature with true friends and just my family get togethers. And yes I feel like im joining in with chaos crap i hate and deep down I hate it because I would like a deeper connection with more people. But shit I dont care anymore, I know Britney Spears isnt the best singers but she has a nice juggs. YEAHHHHH. OKKKK. JK!!!

I enjoyed your thread. I like reading something well thought out. And cheers to the upcoming Tool album.

[Valediction]

Although I agree with all your points, most people are too cozy and afraid to take any kind of stand or change against such powerful forces in society, especially if it means upsetting their rampant consumerism that is like a heroin shot to them... we've all been or are a part of it... get up... go to work... bitch about work... come home and drink 6 pack, or smoke self to stupidity and then do nothing, rinse and repeat, on the weekends buy a bigger tv/computer/car.

[SoulEdge]

Although I agree with all your points, most people are too cozy and afraid to take any kind of stand or change against such powerful forces in society, especially if it means upsetting their rampant consumerism that is like a heroin shot to them... we've all been or are a part of it... get up... go to work... bitch about work... come home and drink 6 pack, or smoke self to stupidity and then do nothing, rinse and repeat, on the weekends buy a bigger tv/computer/car.

I like the way you think.

[prometheus jones]

The only way things will change is if people realize that they are morally obilgated to affect change. For this generation, it is critical that we be responsible and choose to actually do something. I'm not sure if i am talking baby steps or a full on revolution, however I am sure that something has to happen now. If we let things continue we will all soon be enslaved. Not they we aren't enslaved now, we just don't realize that we are because TV and the media have given us a false sense of self. As debt slaves dependent on the system, it becomes seemingly impossible to react against the system without sacrificing a great deal. In other words, to act against the system is to risk your daily routine and jeopardize your job, house, wages, savings, insurance, pension, job security and any of ther other monetary shackles that bind us to this absurd reality.

The USA chapter of the Powers That Be is to nuke Iran...can't be good folks...911 was America's Reichstag...tired...discuss...later...out

[prometheus jones]

too many words. I are drunk.
Nice of you to share your intelligence within this topic. Maybe you should try not posting when you are drunk Mrs. Portman. BTW I thought you were great in V for Vendetta.

CMAC

[Jvx]

This talk is all well and good, but be honest with yourself. Is this motivation to change things enough? Is it genuine, or just a temporary effect of listening to a song by a rock band?

What hope is there of doing something that could change the current situation as you explain it? Thousands, millions of years have created the situation we live in now and we are tiny little specks in it.

All I am saying is that you better be highly motivated, otherwise your words are just wind. We all have to be highly motivated to maintain our hope for the future with the way the world is today.

So be realistic...what is it that you can do? What is worth doing? What is just bullshit that you're telling yourself? This is what Vicarious is about, I think. You have to learn your limitations and how to work with them. Nothing is perfect.

I'm not sure what to think about Vicarious, or what Tool intends to express through it. Every time I listen to it I feel like crying.

[morgaine]

Yeah, I think there's truth in a lot of what you're saying. It's truth that hurts and is echoed in some of Tool's songs, which is one of the reasons why they stir so much emotion in me. The state of our world, overall, is pretty pathetic. It's unfortunate that billions of years of evolution have only led us here. Does anyone else feel like humanity's teetering on the edge of a precipice with an impending landslide behind us? It just seems like perhaps our generation will see drastic changes in our lifetimes, in a negative sense. For change to happen on a global scale, massive numbers of people would have to wake up and be willing to step outside of their comfort zone. I know it sounds overtly negative, but I believe this just isn't going to happen. People carve their lives into deep ruts and stay there, with no desire to leave the TV or think outside of their daily grind. Is it just our nature? I don't know. It's the easiest route and we like to follow the path of least resistance, I guess. Conversely, I don't think it's right to resign ourselves and do nothing just because we believe no one else will. If any of us believes we can do something to make a difference, we absolutely should. It's better than just standing passively by.

It's nice to see such a thoughtful post here, thanks. And I, too, am greatly looking forward to May 2 and the exhilaration, introspection, despondence, elation, euphoria, rage, bliss, melancholy, passion and whatever else the new material will rouse in me, just as their previous albums do.

[downshift]

First up, nice work Prometheus for standing out from the crowd and submitting an intelligent and well thought out post. It's a shame I had to sift through about ten others to find someone who had really listened to the song and was able to put their own perspective on it in relation to current world events.

Jvx: I think it's clear we can't initiate change on a grand scale overnight. I do believe however that we, as individuals, are able to change our own conditioned thought patterns and behaviours in order to remove ourselves from mediated reality. If we can see the negativity, cynicism and hatred around us and choose not to partake we have already set off small "ripples of hope" that are bound to affect change further down the track.

[shai]

"I challenge all readers in this forum who really do think for themselves to question the official 9/11 story and research the direction this country is taking. A good place to start is www.whatreallyhappened.com and www.kurtnimmo.com .

It is important that our generation stand up now. We can change the cycle. Turn off the TV and prepare to take action in whatever form you can provide for the rest of the world."

now, why exactly are those forms of media, those two sites, any more credible or informative than the tv? watching only those and not the mass media would be just as informative as watching only the television, by which i mean hardly informative at all.

as for people being lazy, i am not, i however hardly agree with any of your politics. think what you will, but believe me, it is very possible to think for yourself and agree with many aspects of what the united states is doing right now in terms of politics.

[2and46]

I have been a longtime lurker of this board. Since not too long after aenima and well before lateralus i have read opinions and check the news page. Having said that, I think that the song is exactly what is needed in the world today. Despite what some may think about Tool's motives, as artists, it is my opinion that they must feel some sort of moral obligation to help the world. As it stands, we are at the crossroads, whether or not you are aware of what is happening to our world does not change the fact that is has happened. We are living in the beginnings of an absurd hybrid of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World and George Orwell's 1984. It is spreading.

Lateralus came out about 4 months before 9/11. The message of the album is one of self realization. Finding the Christ/enlightened/transcendant self in all of us. However, once one comes to terms with the self, it becomes quite apparent that the world has lost its "self". The world is a much different place than it was when Tool released Lateralus. We are heading toward a global police state. Now whether or not 9/11 or the Iraq War have impacted your life, it soon will. We are debt slaves.
Now we have the tentatively titled 10000 days. Which brings me to my thoughts on Vicarious. As a person who stopped watching television over a year ago, I can tell you that it is the single greatest weapon that the "powers that be" have to control the masses. I think Vicarious is effective. Without the standard metaphorical/ambiguous approach that Maynard usually utilizes, he and the band have made a statement and I have to agree. I think that musically it combines a little bit of everything they have done. I think it is progressive. I think it fucking rocks. But the important thing is to continue to think for ourselves. And I honestly believe that turning off the TV is one of the most important things that we as human beings can do to help wake ourselves up. This is why I think vicarious is a great song and I look forward to listening to the rest of the album on may 2nd.

Anyway I am sorry that I wrote such a long first post. But I feel that an older and wiser crowd that would reply to this post would read what I have to say. I am not worried about getting flamed or anything like that. I challenge all readers in this forum who really do think for themselves to question the official 9/11 story and research the direction this country is taking. A good place to start is www.whatreallyhappened.com and www.kurtnimmo.com .

It is important that our generation stand up now. We can change the cycle. Turn off the TV and prepare to take action in whatever form you can provide for the rest of the world.

First off, this was a wonderful first post/thread, and I encourage you to continue discussing these themes. I've often brought brought up the topic of politics and world affairs on this board with mixed results. Most TOOL fans are an enlightened, open-minded bunch, even the younger one's, which gives me hope for the future. I'm 37 years old with a much wider frame of reference than some, but have been impressed by most of the posters on this board (you'll always get you're fair share of assholes and flamers, and the dreaded pro-Bush types). So please continue to engage with us. You're opinions are welcomed.

[insaner]

This talk is all well and good, but be honest with yourself. Is this motivation to change things enough? Is it genuine, or just a temporary effect of listening to a song by a rock band?




i am very interested in this idea. it reminds me of why leary and ram das lost hope of lsd ever being an effective tool to change humans conciousness. what they found in their (then) legal studies was that while almost everyone who went through the experience of lsd came out of it with a new understanding of the worlds problems, and a desire to change their surroundings, as well as themselves, they never actualyl accomplished anything. they realized that once a person returned to the "real" world, they fell back into their same comfortable routines. the study found that unless the person was dropped into a radically altered environment, the things they wanted to do with their live as inspired by the drug, became less and less feasible as time progressed.


good thread.

[insaner]

This talk is all well and good, but be honest with yourself. Is this motivation to change things enough? Is it genuine, or just a temporary effect of listening to a song by a rock band?

What hope is there of doing something that could change the current situation as you explain it? Thousands, millions of years have created the situation we live in now and we are tiny little specks in it.

All I am saying is that you better be highly motivated, otherwise your words are just wind. We all have to be highly motivated to maintain our hope for the future with the way the world is today.

So be realistic...what is it that you can do? What is worth doing? What is just bullshit that you're telling yourself? This is what Vicarious is about, I think. You have to learn your limitations and how to work with them. Nothing is perfect.

I'm not sure what to think about Vicarious, or what Tool intends to express through it. Every time I listen to it I feel like crying.

i think you totally nailed what vicarious, as well as what the album as a whole will be about. almost a call and response to the mood of the band as they made lateralus. and it also speaks to my first reply. the band was enlightened, and tried to share it and shape the world around them, but saw that it was actually hopeless, leading to the contents af the new record.

[Headmusic]

This is encouraging to see. For the past few years I've been freaking myself out about the direction of the world. Part of my fear has been thinking that I'm one of the few that can see it. I've come to the conclusion that it's not as bad as I thought. This thread is the perfect example to show that there are others that feel the same way. Others connected to the "collective unconsious" if you will. That's the catalyst of change. As the realization sets in the actions will begin.

I see the age we're in to be more of a shift in understanding. The last major shift of this proportion was the beginning of the age of enlightenment. Now it's time for another. We've answered most all of the mysteries of the dark through science and discovery. Now we have to start facing the questions that don't have simple yes/no answers. That's where the age of reason manner of thinking begins to fall short.

Adopting a new way of understanding isn't easy. It's easier to zone out and watch tv, or go shopping. That's why reality tv and celebrity gossip is all the rave these days. People living vicariously thorugh others. It takes no energy, no risk.

But don't worry. More and more people will grow tired of it. The more we consume the more the realization will set in that it's not working. Some people are just slower than others. It seems many of the people here are on the front lines of this tidal wave of change. You see the problem. Tool sees the problem. That's good to know.

[junkie]

I have been a longtime lurker of this board. Since not too long after aenima and well before lateralus i have read opinions and check the news page. Having said that, I think that the song is exactly what is needed in the world today. Despite what some may think about Tool's motives, as artists, it is my opinion that they must feel some sort of moral obligation to help the world. As it stands, we are at the crossroads, whether or not you are aware of what is happening to our world does not change the fact that is has happened. We are living in the beginnings of an absurd hybrid of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World and George Orwell's 1984. It is spreading.

Lateralus came out about 4 months before 9/11. The message of the album is one of self realization. Finding the Christ/enlightened/transcendant self in all of us. However, once one comes to terms with the self, it becomes quite apparent that the world has lost its "self". The world is a much different place than it was when Tool released Lateralus. We are heading toward a global police state. Now whether or not 9/11 or the Iraq War have impacted your life, it soon will. We are debt slaves.
Now we have the tentatively titled 10000 days. Which brings me to my thoughts on Vicarious. As a person who stopped watching television over a year ago, I can tell you that it is the single greatest weapon that the "powers that be" have to control the masses. I think Vicarious is effective. Without the standard metaphorical/ambiguous approach that Maynard usually utilizes, he and the band have made a statement and I have to agree. I think that musically it combines a little bit of everything they have done. I think it is progressive. I think it fucking rocks. But the important thing is to continue to think for ourselves. And I honestly believe that turning off the TV is one of the most important things that we as human beings can do to help wake ourselves up. This is why I think vicarious is a great song and I look forward to listening to the rest of the album on may 2nd.

Anyway I am sorry that I wrote such a long first post. But I feel that an older and wiser crowd that would reply to this post would read what I have to say. I am not worried about getting flamed or anything like that. I challenge all readers in this forum who really do think for themselves to question the official 9/11 story and research the direction this country is taking. A good place to start is www.whatreallyhappened.com and www.kurtnimmo.com .

It is important that our generation stand up now. We can change the cycle. Turn off the TV and prepare to take action in whatever form you can provide for the rest of the world.


Very well said. It's refreshing to read such opinionated (and logical) posts. *applause*

[Futureal]

Good post.

Max Horkheimer and Theodor Adorno of the Frankfurt School said that the reason Karl Marx's prediction of an inevitible, worldwide proletariat revolution was wrong was because the masses would be so content and numbed with popular culture that they would allow an unlimited level of bourgeoise tyranny...however once technology is advanced to a certain point that we are rapidly approaching, it will be completely unneccessary to continue the illusion.

Communism and Marxism aside, I think this applies to everything that has been said in this thread...no matter how you choose to interpret it. You guys have nailed it.

I took a sledgehammer to my TV (dont ask) about 7 months ago because I didnt have the will power to keep it turned off. I swept up the glass, but the TV is still sitting there. I am very glad I did it.

Its so ironic to see people go crazy and spend thousands of dollars on all these HDTVs...can you imagine a troop of slaves in early America crying out "These primitive rope ties are much too insecure, I demand that you replace them with steel shackles at once...and of course, I will cover all the costs."

[Unstuck in Time]

Whoa, what is going on in this thread?? Praises, ladies (?) and gentleman!
Go on, please!

[waXresilienT]

The things I hear about starting and continuing change within a large group of people in our society is something I think about often. I have this same disscusion with some of my friends quite often, but like some of you have said, no great changes have come from what ends up amounting to just "big talk" about these problems. The other end of the spectrum are the radicals that are taking this very seriously. As well they should. But a few of my friends become so heated and angry about our all-consuming pop-culture that anyone else listening becomes turned off to the whole idea. What I'm basically saying is this...While we sit upon the edge of whatever cliff we may be on, the ones who realize it need to be careful not to scramble so hard to get away from the edge that they slip and fall off themselves...

[merkabalus]

I can see why TV is easy to villify as the bringer of all evil to modern society, but to me it's too convenient a scapegoat for free thinkers.

Yes, I agree a lot of TV is complete bullshit - so is a lot of literature, music and film - but there are a lot of well made shows still out there. The problem with completely abandoning TV is you're immediately cutting yourself off from some of the few common cultural cues that our broken, individualised society has left. I have no problem with TV as a form of entertainment and not all TV has to have a profound message all of the time. Shows like ER, Lost and Curb Your Enthusiasm manage to slip in leftist ideas and sentiments to balance out the Fox News broadcasts. I think writing off TV altogether would be akin to abolishing reading due to books like 'Mein Kampf'.

I think society is already becoming polarised in a lot of ways, rich vs poor, educated vs uneducated, white vs black etc. and that some things in TV can help us remember that we're not so different after all and that the planet is still a pretty amazing place (Discovery Channel etc.). I do however, think that reality TV has become the opium of today's populace. I admit to being sucked in by the novelty factor in the first place, and I was studying psychology at the time so Big Brother seemed like an interesting concept, but now we have an increasing trend towards a westernised society that would rather watch other people live their lives than live their own.

TV has played a role in making the art of escapism an everyday occurance. As a child of the '80s I still find myself thinking of relationships in a cheesy Top Gun-esque/I Love Lucy way even though I know them to be far from the idealised Hollywood fiction. But if we have an escape route, then we can insulate ourselves from what is really going on.

How often have you seen a beaming newscaster tell you about a slaughter in a far off country? It's a lot easier to distance yourself from events when you're used to seeing people blown apart in movies and videogames - seeing it on your TV in the form of a news bulletin isn't that much of a stretch. I still remember the feeling I had when I first saw a dead body in a history book about the civil rights movement and Jim Crowe hangings... yet today we've got 12yr old kids who download .avis of Blackhawks mowing down groups of 'terrorists' and seemingly ROFL their ways off their chairs.

We have a society that is hugely disconnected from reality, while in other countries that once weren't so different from ours (before we started enslaving their population) we have people fighting to find clean drinking water while we try and figure out the best ways to make more money and bomb the other guys into oblivion. In some ways the disconnection is a way to retain some semblance of sanity. If you took a look at even the top twenty five attrocities that occurred in the world today you'd probably feel suicidal.

Where do we go from here?

I can't help thinking that my generation will see some of the worst falls society has ever taken (on the scale of the Roman empire) particularly when the oil finally runs out. People are all worried about the possibility of WWIII, as far as I can tell it started the day a man started to talk about a 'war on terror'.

[xmorteferoz]

as for people being lazy, i am not, i however hardly agree with any of your politics. think what you will, but believe me, it is very possible to think for yourself and agree with many aspects of what the united states is doing right now in terms of politics.

Instead of just stating that it's "very possible .. to agree with many aspects of what the United States is doing right now in .. politics," explain WHY you agree with it.

There's no point in making a general statement in a conversation revolving around specifics.

[waXresilienT]

very nice merkabalus...just one thing to add...

I definitely believe that t.v. isn't completely evil, it's like everything, it's all in how you use it. On that note I find it interesting that people who are in these newsgroups that probably are at their computers a good portion of the day, are bitching about t.v.. The internet is about the same, there are some good things and bad things about it, but again it's all in how you use it. If you're gonna destroy your t.v. destory your computer too

[merkabalus]

I think we take a lot of the freedoms we have for granted and that the world would very quickly become a scary place 'when the lights go out' i.e. the oil runs out. Think about how easy it is to find information out and share ideas via the internet at the minute.

One point I never see mentioned in debates about when oil will run out is to me possibly the most life changing to society. When oil runs out, what are we going to do without plastic? All plastics are a derivative of oil, and here we stand, at the peak of our technical development, happily burning away the last of our oil when a few years down the line we'll be thinking "Hey, how are we going to have a hospital with no IV lines or bags? How do you make a hearing aid, computer, CD, radio, life support machine, defibrilator or incubator without plastic? Isn't all wiring in every electrical device insulated with plastic?"

Think for a second about how many plastic bags you've thrown away in your lifetime. Hundreds? Thousands? I think it'd be a lot wiser to think of alternative fuels now while we still have some oil left to use to harness the naturally occurring sources of energy we'll be relying on. If these concerns aren't addressed we could be heading for another dark age, and this time there'll be no amazing discoveries like the internal combustion engine waiting to provide a false dawn.

One final point that worries me a lot more than the TV. How many countries in the world can you think of where the president/prime minister/leader actually represents the will, wants and needs of the majority of the population? Off the top of my head I can think of only Bolivia. Politicians are widely accepted to be corrupt, backstabbing, lying cheats - and yet these are the men and women who we choose to represent our country to all the other nations of the world. An apt quote from V for Vendetta 'People shouldn't be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people'.

The thing is, are we too far down the road of disconnection between the will of the people and the agendas of the politicians we put in power? How can we affect a change when the choice is often a case of voting for the lesser of two evils? Who do you vote for if neither candidate represents what you want in a leader?

As a footnote, I'm about to start a BA in Politics. Joy. ;)

[Futureal]

I definitely believe that t.v. isn't completely evil, it's like everything, it's all in how you use it. On that note I find it interesting that people who are in these newsgroups that probably are at their computers a good portion of the day, are bitching about t.v.. The internet is about the same, there are some good things and bad things about it, but again it's all in how you use it. If you're gonna destroy your t.v. destory your computer too


You cannot compare TV to the internet. The content of the Internet is not controlled entirely by corporate entities who have no higher goal than to indoctrinate every single person on earth with consumerist values and you cannot sit back and passively "watch" the internet while letting your brain slip into a suggestible alpha state.

The only bad thing about spending too much time on the computer that is remotely related to TV is the effects of watching a strobe light. This can be alleviated by using an LCD display.

[waXresilienT]

i didnt say it was exactly the same. I'm just trying to point out that what you get out of both depends on the person most of the time. A lot of those people we're tlaking about who watch only reality tv and mtv probably visit sites related to those shows, which by the way are corporately run..

[Winston]

Originally Posted by waXresilienT
I definitely believe that t.v. isn't completely evil, it's like everything, it's all in how you use it. On that note I find it interesting that people who are in these newsgroups that probably are at their computers a good portion of the day, are bitching about t.v.. The internet is about the same, there are some good things and bad things about it, but again it's all in how you use it. If you're gonna destroy your t.v. destory your computer too

I would almost completely agree with you here. These things are merely (integral?) tools for disseminating information. Why stop at destroying tv and the internet? Why not do away with religous and educational heirarchies that control, moderate and partition information?
In a sense don't we live 'vicariously' through our window to the past, our history? It's our stories from the past that give us our sense of being, of who we are, whether these stories are true or not.
"Who controls the past, now, controls the future..." (you know the rest ;)

Myth as history of the soul?
This introduction/essay (http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/us/fukuyama.htm) by Francis Fukuyama of his book 'The End of History and the Last Man' I find to be quite interesting, especially given Google's intent to index the world's data.
If all human history is decided and indexed, and any new history is indexed and analysed as it happens, what will we have to argue about?
How does a Human experience fit in to this brave new world, if the definition of a Human experience is constantly changing?

[shai]

Instead of just stating that it's "very possible .. to agree with many aspects of what the United States is doing right now in .. politics," explain WHY you agree with it.

There's no point in making a general statement in a conversation revolving around specifics.


first off, there is hardly anything specific about this conversation. it seems to have started from generalization.

secondly, if you want me to be specific about a specific current event, you're going to have to be more specific in your question.

[FistFck]

i stopped watching tv 4 years ago, and i dont miss it at all. id take sitting at the dock, watching the sun set any day over that box. and the internet? it only connects to one site, and thats this one. cause i cant get enough of tool. ;)

[Inner_Eulogy]

Adopting a new way of understanding isn't easy. It's easier to zone out and watch tv, or go shopping. That's why reality tv and celebrity gossip is all the rave these days. People living vicariously thorugh others. It takes no energy, no risk.


Prometheus, much respect to you for your well thought/well put insight. I agree 110% with this and have always strived to become a better person, especially towards others.

Headmusic, I have sat many times and wondered how on earth Tv Networks can make a completely pointless show out of ANY and EVERYthing....and people will actually watch that crap. I'm not sure if the same craze has happened in other countries as well but, it seems as if that's all that's on TV at all anymore these days. You know, there's a fucking reality show about how Lil' Kim (a female rapper) went to jail? WTF is that?!?! There's a reality show for everything now, it makes me sick. In the states on VH1, they have all these shows talking about what stars eat this or wear this or who they talk to or are dating while the paparazzi chase them and will lay out life and limb for a fucking picture or dig through garbage to know what they eat...and people eat this shit up on Tv..it makes me sick.

TURN OFF YOUR TV....GO DO SOMETHING....sorry, I can't say much as I'm fumbling on here while I should be working right now, but I've been checking in here lately in curiousity of the new album and this posting caught mt attention. Glad to know there are others who share this common aknowledgment.

[Headmusic]

Well television is simply a reflection of the people watching it. Networks will shamelessly pander to whatever their viewing public will tune into. Gone are the days that television stations maintained a sense of ethics and responsibility. Now we have the ability to tune in and watch the ongoing mating habits of Flava Flave~ Taste and Coothe be damned.

I find it helpful to recognize the tendencies of the general public, such as vicarious living through television personalities, as a symptom of the real problem, rather than the problem in and of itelf. This allows me to feel compassion for the masses rather than simply condemn them in their ignorance.

I try to keep in mind that we live in a different world. Most people put all stock into "truths" that were taught to them from childhood. To their credit, these "truths" used to apply. For example, from childhood I was told that the key to a good life would be a good education, and to find a good job. As a man I was to learn a skill, and support a family. I would find a woman who had been taught the duties of maintaining a household and raising children. Our two halves would make a whole. This is no longer the case. Now both men and women work, usually out of necessity. Both men and women now have to develop themselves completely, animus and anima. This is either due to the fact that one single parent is the sole provider/caregiver, or simply because relationships in this day and age require a much deeper connection than in the past. The only way to develop this connection is to first know yourself completely.

Bare in mind this is simply one example. Further examples can be found in all facets of life at all levels: individually, within relationships, globally...

Since the foundations in which we were all raised are showing signs of wear under the weight of our new, more advanced understanding, it's much easier to zone out rather than figure it out. This is, of course, a horrible way to go about life.

The next few decades will be a tough adjustment for all of us. But those of us who are awake and actively looking for the answers will be much better off. That's why I pity these people. The wave of change is going to hit them seemingly out of nowhere.

[Headmusic]

*On a side note*
This song further illustrates for me the existence of the collective unconcious. Take a look at my avatar. I drew that months before I knew anything about this song, much less the subject matter, yet it seems to fit perfectly. SPOOKY!

[prometheus jones]

It is good to see that this thread has had some very thought provoking dialogue running through it. Perhaps we can continue to post some threads that will demand only well arranged responses. None of this flaming crap. As you may have noticed, there hasn't been one simple response throughout the entire thread. Im glad and I hope the rest of you are as well.

[xmorteferoz]

first off, there is hardly anything specific about this conversation. it seems to have started from generalization.

What a redundant, useless statement. 90% of conversations begin as a generalization; what keeps the conversation moving is delving into specifics, ideas, thoughts, theories.. Something useful. Not a half-assed opinion with nothing to back it up.

This conversation is moving into specifics. Re-read.

secondly, if you want me to be specific about a specific current event, you're going to have to be more specific in your question.

The question was specific enough. You know this.

[Hooker with a Third Eye]

alright well i guess its time to bust this happy party ... you are nuts. your "credible" websites are jokes, 9/11 happened and your on crack if think it didnt.

[prometheus jones]

[QUOTE=Hooker with a Third Eye]alright well i guess its time to bust this happy party ... you are nuts. your "credible" websites are jokes, 9/11 happened and your on crack if think it didnt.[/QU

Now that you have stated your opinion, would you care to elaborate more on it? As you can see this thread has had some well thought out responses. While you are entitled to your opinion, it is a matter of common adult courtesy to elaborate more on your ideas/opinions. For the record hooker, I never said that 911 never happened, I only challenged you to question the official story.

godspeed,

CMAC

[Mescaline]

Great post prometheus jones!!! the world is indeed losing itself. PLEASE WAKE UP.

everyone read Aldous Huxley's Doors of Perception and take some Mescaline :D
You will see the truth is all around you.