The schemamatics and choosing 1 or 10

[paraflux]

If you look at the back of the Lateralus overcover, with all the technical schematics drawn up, you will see that songs 10, 11, and 12 are also connected by that line on the left side. Hard to describe without a picture, but it concludes that all are the same song. Just like God, Jesus, Holy Spirit are all the Godhead, D/R/T are all the Trinity here. That makes 10 songs for the album, further representing the tree of Sephiroth, or tree of life. I'm not sure if I spelled Sephiroth right. Anyway, choose one or ten. Look at the cover of the Salival box. The tree is superimposed on the body of the man underneath. Do a search for the tree, I'm sure there are plenty of sites discussing it.

and by the way, of course I'm not counting the very last track as a part of the album. More like entertainment for some.

[apex_theory]

interesting....... one of the reasons i think tool are so interesting is this depth they have more can constantly be seen and investigated, everything linked. improving our understanding,... maybe.

[disposition8]

hmm so there are 10 songs on the album, in some numerical cycles, 1 would be birth and 10 would be death. death can sometimes be considered a major transition and so sometimes a major shift in perception can be considered a "death" of sorts. of course theres an eleventh song, and the name of that song is, from what i understand, translated to mean the voice of god, and in that same numerical system 11 is the number of rebirth >=). just rambling.

[Misoanthropos]

um lateralus is just 7 songs...not 10

[InfernalMethod]

Originally posted by disposition8
hmm so there are 10 songs on the album, in some numerical cycles, 1 would be birth and 10 would be death. death can sometimes be considered a major transition and so sometimes a major shift in perception can be considered a "death" of sorts. of course theres an eleventh song, and the name of that song is, from what i understand, translated to mean the voice of god, and in that same numerical system 11 is the number of rebirth >=). just rambling.

I think what disposition8 is refering to here is death as the shamans call it, the SMALL DEATH...crossing the abyss... a transformation of sorts. I believe the aforementioned quote is correct and very inciteful. We can expect some kind of transition from Tool.

A truly clever person would be able to put forth some theory on this.

For example, there is no vocals on TRIAD, and its no accident. Does this mean anything? Maybe not, maybe so. If so, what does it imply?

Also, the name Triad refers to the trinity already mentioned in another post. As far as I know, there is only three people playing on Triad, yes? Maybe not. If it were true, that would be a Triad.

Anyone know the time signature on triad? I wonder if its in 3.

"I pray the light lifts me out, before I pine away..." What could this imply, in terms of a transition?

I would venture a small guess that Tool in the future will become even less negative, and more positive. Although this would not be much of a transition. Lateralus is very positive, to me. So I suppose I'm not the clever one, but hopefully I've asked some good questions for a better one to answer...as Nietchze called him the 'Overman' or 'Superman'.

Let this "Futant" come forward and be recognized.

OK
MSM

[sk8ingknot4659]

Dis/Ref/Tri aren't the only song with conections. you can forget Eon Blue Apocalypse and The Patient...

[adz]

tool have always insisted that the music comes before the lyrics, and that it is what carries the emotion. therefore the lack of vocals on triad could signify that there is no longer any need to express the emotion with lyrics...a sense of enlightenment and communication of the purest form, expressed through what tool do...create musical art. oh, and yes, triad is in a triple time signature.

"I pray the light lifts me out, before I pine away..."
my interpretation of this has always been that there is hope that enlightenment/complete awareness or whatever you would like to call it is reached/understood before the mundane and pointless aspects of human existence; and the physical limitations of the human consciousness; become too much to bear - that is too frustrating to deal with any longer and you just "pine away" into mediocrity and quiet despair or frustrated insanity.

in my opinion disp/ref/triad isnt so much about life and death as people often say, but is more about the degree of awareness both allowed to us and attainable by us while existing in this place. once we can break free of boundaries, exceed our limitations, we can truly evolve and become aware as to the true nature of existence and consciousness.

[paraflux]

Triad has no words because what it conveys cannot be expressed with our language. All of the previous songs try, and the words do good, but still cannot get across perfectly the material. True ascension to the Godhead cannot be spoken of, only experienced. Even the music in this piece is an image, a metaphor.

[Solidus Mijæ]

Originally posted by Misoanthropos
um lateralus is just 7 songs...not 10
How do you figure that? There are 13 songs, but counting out Faaip and considering the Triad/Trinity as one song gets you 10... I'm getting bored again...

[Solidus Mijæ]

Sorry, stupid question. Eon/Patient, Mantra/Schism, Parabol/Parabola makes 7... I'm getting bored again...

[paraflux]

If they dedicate track space to it, I consider it a song.

[Narcissus]

Though I do believe all three songs are connected (of course they are music wise...as they flow together seamlessly), I can only connect Disposition 1 way. It is about a relationship...be it with a god, spirit, energy, person...I dont know....but It has a tone of silent frustration...."Mention something, Mention anything!" I believe "watch the weather change" stands for a mental, emotional, and spiritual turn for the negative...until at the end of reflection...he is "saved" to spread the message. I havent a clue about the importance of Triad...but lets not forget that some things should not be over-analyzed. Trust your gut feeling. Most likely the feeling conveyed when listening to the music is exactly what they intended...and nothing more!

[paraflux]

what about the crucifixion? when christ died the skies were black for three days. this piece also could be the crucifixion of the ego, to help the listener "step out of the way" as Danny puts it. Once we step out of the way and let the light reflect off us and through us (lateral us) we can then understand what the reflection actually is, what it means, and the after-implications. and after that.........

the godhead. triad. new creation. heaven.

[Nicholas_Pasha]

Originally posted by paraflux
That makes 10 songs for the album, further representing the tree of Sephiroth, or tree of life...Anyway, choose one or ten. Look at the cover of the Salival box. The tree is superimposed on the body of the man underneath. Do a search for the tree...and by the way, I'm not counting the very last track as a part of the album.

Paraflux, having just posted a reply to your post pertaining to a Grudge thread, relating to the Ten Seafirst I'm ALMOST beginning to feel like I'm not paying enough attention to others. (Narc. I don't think much can be overanalyzed as long as fresh thoughts still flourish - now I don't feel so bad having mentioned another.)

Triads surely play a connected, if not a vital symbolic role within the Tree of Life. Time spent studying may prove this to hold true as well.

Within the Tree of Life there are three triads. If you reference the Salival box you may want to read my other post, Each triad include three sefirot (also spelled sephirot, plural) and I know THAT isn't the most profound statement to be understood, but the concept should be just as simple to grasp. From the bottom of the 'Tree' up,despite this being in the ass-backwards approach, the third triad includes Netsah/Victory(7,+), Hod/Empathy(8, -) & Yesod/Foundation(9). Failing you (all) by not attempting to increase your understanding to a particular degree in one (now two) post(s) Yesod is a fulcrum point, a balance between the Netsah and Hod. The second triad is the joining of Hesed/Mercy or Loving kindness(4,+), Gevurah/Judgement or Strength(5,-) and Tifeth/Beauty(6). The first triad depicted on the Tree of Life, the highest level of awareness among the triplets is the connections between, Hokhmah/Wisdom (2,+), Binah/Intelligence(3,-) and the often unmarked Sefirah of Daat/Knowledge. If you're looking at the Salival box properly, then you'll see the elusive, illuminating eminence.

How the above information relates to Tool's Triad; being D/R/T is up to further debate, study, or pondering of ideas. Then again, maybe it isn't.

Before I take leave (again); there's much to be said that hasn't been. I'm not related to BMB, but much (frustration) can be taken from the lessons we accept wholeheartedly. With that in mind, I wonder: is the moon, (opposed to our sun sign) the shadow self the key to knowing ourselves, but attaining a greater Knowledge that is no longer meant for us because of what awaits our cosmic destiny? Make you want to listen to 46&2 again? How about reading some other suggested mumbo-jumbo which could be possible keys to understanding the fuel of the fire burning our intrigued minds.

Steer clear of trouble and put the pedal to the metal.
Enjoy all that's living and don't forget to stop and smell the petal.

Ciao for now,
Nicholas

[1 & 1 are 1 11]

Originally posted by paraflux
If you look at the back of the Lateralus overcover, with all the technical schematics drawn up, you will see that songs 10, 11, and 12 are also connected by that line on the left side. Hard to describe without a picture, but it concludes that all are the same song. Just like God, Jesus, Holy Spirit are all the Godhead, D/R/T are all the Trinity here. That makes 10 songs for the album, further representing the tree of Sephiroth, or tree of life. I'm not sure if I spelled Sephiroth right. Anyway, choose one or ten. Look at the cover of the Salival box. The tree is superimposed on the body of the man underneath. Do a search for the tree, I'm sure there are plenty of sites discussing it.

and by the way, of course I'm not counting the very last track as a part of the album. More like entertainment for some.


There is a really excellent book by Bob Frissel called "Nothing in this book is true.. but it's exactly how things are" (Sort of a hard find but well worth it) He goes into much discussion on the tree of life.. and also Danny's signature of Scared Geometry.. Check it out if you can find it

[mud_soul]

Originally posted by InfernalMethod

I would venture a small guess that Tool in the future will become even less negative, and more positive. MSM

im a new poster, i needed to join after readin this part of infernalmethods post.
has anyone noticed a theme that kind of runs through all of Tools albums? or is it just me?, let me try and explain.
i think from opiate and undertow, these are angry, maybe "angsty" ( though i hate the word angst ) kind of albums, when i listen to opiate as a whole, i feel like Tool is angry, it is expelling negative energy, the same with undertow only Tool is directing this negative energy TO someone or something. by Aenima, tool has realized that anger and negativity are unhealthy and fruitless and Tool begins to search for other options, other ways of being. ( i wish i could give specific songs but i only have lateralus with me right now ) i feel that Tool really explores other options and ARENT so angry as on the first two albums, by the time we get to Lateralus i feel that TOOl has come up with some answers, and tries to fully cultivate these more healthy approaches to society, religion, etc.
ok, that wasnt really very clear to even myself so ill see if i can make an example:
as a child, a person will ALWAYS come across a situation that it is incapable of dealing with, lets use a death of a parent for example, this child MIGHT ( instinctively ) feel anger but because it is so young, it has no idea where to direct that anger, so it directs it at the WORLD. imagine an older chicld, with more experience, might feel anger but this child would have the abillity to direct its angers, say at the surviving parent, or person ( or thing ) that caused the parents death. those are hopw i see opiate and undertow.
imagine a teenager, maybe 15 years old, trying to cope with the death of a parent, this person knows the futility of directing this anger at any one person or thing, but knows that it cant keep it inside , and begins to searchc for an explanation, or a way of coping this to me is aenima
imagine a twenty something year old person coping with the death of a parent, this person would probably by now have developed a few techniques to deal and cope and will not let the death destroy the persons own life. this is how i see lateralus
again, im still not very clear, basically i am asking : does anyone notice or feel like there is a continuum bettween all of the albums?
i know i am missing out on salival and i give no excuses, except that i havent read the posts on that album yet.
please reply with ideas. i hope i put this in the right place

Brendon