Unable to forgive..

[Wicked_Ella]

Alright just to start out.
This song seems to stick out to me for many reasons.
I heard it when I first bought this cd and I instantly didn't like it.. it doesn't appear to really stick out any interesting ideas I've ever heard in a TOOL song..
But then one line stuck out to me in which I instantly fell in love..
"Unable to forgive your scarlet letterman"
I mean, come on, lust with me for a moment.
*Lust*
Anyway, the scarlet letterman has always been a symbol in ancient times of a fall of a religion. He brings bad news of religion...
Religion.. and how they try to make it such an absolute truth that people are BLIND to realize otherwise.
And these people with such blind content "Clutch it like a cornerstone" since once you realize that HEY this might not make as much sense as it really does.. "other wise it all comes down"
"Terrified of being alone" -- setting out and making your own religion//truths *SCARY!*
It also goes on to say that "Desperate to control all and everything" <-- Excuse me.. sound like Christian//Catholic ways!?
Reminds me of the movie Stigmata :)

Blah blah, the song continues but that was the basis of that song to me..
Saturn, in astrology signifies change.. and the basic 1-10 shows the beginning and the end.. but dualism is crap, just like Maynard says in many of his songs.. There is no such thing dualism.. everything is one..
oh crap that's supposed to be the meaning for another song.. I'll shuttup now :)!
-Ella

[jotun]

Originally posted by Wicked_Ella

Anyway, the scarlet letterman has always been a symbol in ancient times of a fall of a religion. He brings bad news of religion...


that's interesting...could you explain a little more about that expression ? i'd never heard it before i listened to the grudge

i think the "mantra parts" of the song (wear the grudge like a crown of negativity, calculate what WE will and so on) , i say mantra because it's sung in such a monotonous way, symbolizes that people that are stuck with their ideals and unwilling to change often seems to have a mantra in their head that theyre going around repeating for themselves...

[Wicked_Ella]

Originally posted by jotun
that's interesting...could you explain a little more about that expression ? i'd never heard it before i listened to the grudge

i think the "mantra parts" of the song (wear the grudge like a crown of negativity, calculate what WE will and so on) , i say mantra because it's sung in such a monotonous way, symbolizes that people that are stuck with their ideals and unwilling to change often seems to have a mantra in their head that theyre going around repeating for themselves...

There's a website you can go to..
eh, I lost it. This *kind of* has the idea.. http://www.aei.org/news/newsID.16163/news_detail.asp
GOOD idea, on the mantra parts. Nice ;)

[Jimmy Pop]

Originally posted by Wicked_Ella
"Unable to forgive your scarlet letterman"
I mean, come on, lust with me for a moment.
*Lust*
Anyway, the scarlet letterman has always been a symbol in ancient times of a fall of a religion. He brings bad news of religion...
-Ella
Or you could simply ask Nathaniel Hawthorn. Maybe he has something clever to say about it.

[hellissa]

OMG

YOu are both so cool

I always loved Tool cause I listened to them more like 5 yrs back. but was... mmm...
young..., but NEVER had I in any way indulged into their music. I just replayed The Grudge after a long time now only to realize i never really made out the lyrics.. 8 O
so immediately i was intrigued and i am so so so oso so happy i did so!
looked it up and voila!

now i m gonna take it from the top w Tool : )

ty
ty : )

PS reason for my detachment from Tool was my turn to forms of different genre,
such as experimental electronica and jazz...
happy to enjoy Tool again and switch to Do me say think, Kid 606, Godspeed, Helios, MOnk etc ... : )

[aicrag88]

Or you could simply ask Nathaniel Hawthorn. Maybe he has something clever to say about it.

I would think maynard was going more through this direction, as in "the scarlett letter". Anyways, you have a pretty cool concept about the song, and a valid one for that matter.

For me, it sticks out more out in the title "The Grudge", a grudge you have towards someone or something. Its common to hold a grudge or hate, but its unhealthy to hold these feelings, as they start eating you away. Im always skeptical of all those people who are like "the alchemy connotations in this song contain "secrets" or imply more than what maynard is saying" like if maynard wrote the song like a code.

I read the other day that maynard expressed his thoughts on these feelings through a metaphor with alchemy elements (or chemical elements if youre picky), as lead being a really heavy and "negative" element, and gold being a metal that has a connotation of being "healthy", rich and the ultimate "goal" for an alchemist. As in: turn these leaden grudges into gold= turn a negative feeling, into forgivness before you poison yourself.

So i would think this song has a simple, yet important message: Learn how to forgive others and yourself, before you turn into a bitter fuck

I dont see much dwelling in dualism in this song, but i would like to refute your claim that we are one being. Yes, of course we are "one" but we are the sum of many parts, and there will be always some kind of dualism going on, as you can see in science (gravitational fields), philosophy (Hegel and his synthesis, Jung and his consciousness and unconsciousness) and in common life in particular (Positives and negatives)

Just a thought

[Inner_Eulogy]

I would think maynard was going more through this direction, as in "the scarlett letter". Anyways, you have a pretty cool concept about the song, and a valid one for that matter.

For me, it sticks out more out in the title "The Grudge", a grudge you have towards someone or something. Its common to hold a grudge or hate, but its unhealthy to hold these feelings, as they start eating you away. Im always skeptical of all those people who are like "the alchemy connotations in this song contain "secrets" or imply more than what maynard is saying" like if maynard wrote the song like a code.

I read the other day that maynard expressed his thoughts on these feelings through a metaphor with alchemy elements (or chemical elements if youre picky), as lead being a really heavy and "negative" element, and gold being a metal that has a connotation of being "healthy", rich and the ultimate "goal" for an alchemist. As in: turn these leaden grudges into gold= turn a negative feeling, into forgivness before you poison yourself.

So i would think this song has a simple, yet important message: Learn how to forgive others and yourself, before you turn into a bitter fuck

I dont see much dwelling in dualism in this song, but i would like to refute your claim that we are one being. Yes, of course we are "one" but we are the sum of many parts, and there will be always some kind of dualism going on, as you can see in science (gravitational fields), philosophy (Hegel and his synthesis, Jung and his consciousness and unconsciousness) and in common life in particular (Positives and negatives)

Just a thought

Haha @ So i would think this song has a simple, yet important message: Learn how to forgive others and yourself, before you turn into a bitter fuck

I'm with ya' on this, well said