danny 'we truly are an altenative band'

[machinelike]

source: blabbermouth

Despite the long wait between TOOL albums, the group remains as popular as ever. Drummer Danny Carey told Launch that he feels the band's integrity has kept the fans coming back. "We truly are an alternative band," he said. "It's an alternative to what other people label as alternative, that actually all sounds the same or whatever. And I think people can identify that and they can relate to it, and they desire the real thing when it's available. You just gotta stick to your laurels and believe in what you're doing, and not do it for money, do it for the art of it, then you can't lose."

TOOL's fourth full-length album, titled "10,000 Days", is due out on May 2, and is said to contain 11 tracks and have a length of 77 minutes. A track listing for the album was also recently revealed, although a source for the band's label told Launch that a first single has not yet been chosen. "10,000 Days" is the follow-up to TOOL's last studio effort, 2001's "Lateralus".

TOOL will headline the second night of the Coachella Valley Music & Arts Festival, scheduled for April 29-30 in Indio, California. The band has not performed live in the U.S. since late 2002. The group has also mapped out a European tour that extends from the end of May until mid-July, but full North American plans have yet to be unveiled.

[SpiralOutKeepGoing]

marvelous.

[Wretched]

K. Thanks, very little info given.

[stinkfish]

still 10.000 times more interesting than the last 10.000 bullshit posts.

[TurdEye13]

nice

[Nemesis]

still 10.000 times more interesting than the last 10.000 bullshit posts.

Spot on

[pork chops]

it seems i've heard it all before. but thanks for sharing

[bass_dude]

He says that the single hasn't been chosen- but wasn't it supposedly announced on the radio?

or is this just an old interview?

Alex

[WearingVans501s]

if theres a video finished, then the single has more than likely been chosen

[Madklikor]

TOOL's fourth full-length album, titled "10,000 Days", is due out on May 2, and is said to contain 11 tracks and have a length of 77 minutes.

So Andy was wrong somewhere on the track lengh, unless the last track is 7 minutes...

[SpareForTheWarFishers]

Dannys the man

[Nemesis]

So Andy was wrong somewhere on the track lengh, unless the last track is 7 minutes...

Remember though, when Andy listened to it, the track order wasn't finalised. Maybe it changed??

[submachine]

You just gotta stick to your laurels and believe in what you're doing, and not do it for money, do it for the art of it, then you can't lose.".

Well thats easy to say once you have the money, but it is true that TooL never exploded, they crawled their way up.

Nnow that they have reached the top, it seems as they are alone up there, so it is us fans who benefit from the fact that they really are doing it for the art, and their art is great.

[HiPp_1]

I believe everthing (single, video) has been decided and completed.

[exojjl]

indeed.

[KJM]

Well thats easy to say once you have the money, but it is true that TooL never exploded, they crawled their way up.

Nnow that they have reached the top, it seems as they are alone up there, so it is us fans who benefit from the fact that they really are doing it for the art, and their art is great.


I would say they did slightly "explode". I also agree that it's an easy statement to make when you don't have to worry about money.

[intoaneye]

I would say they did slightly "explode". I also agree that it's an easy statement to make when you don't have to worry about money.

your totally right dude pfffft

[KJM]

your totally right dude pfffft


You're* and "pfffft" = "I really am a massive tool who can't put thoughts into functioning grammatical/linguistic structures that other humans can conceive"? You have to help me, I'm doing my best to understand.

You can do it. Want a banana?

[NoD]

Danny seems llike such a cool guy...I'd like to buy him a beer

[Noob_Jones]

He says that the single hasn't been chosen- but wasn't it supposedly announced on the radio?

or is this just an old interview?

Alex


I am sure the single is known but they do not want to give the name of it yet so they are still saying it is yet to be chosen. (after all Adam has been working on a video and I doubt it would be for any other song than the single)

[Noob_Jones]

The Pot got me Rosetta Stoned.

[Midgard]

lmao, Tool isn't alternative and if they were doing it for the art then they wouldn't be going on a listening tour.

[Noob_Jones]

lmao, Tool isn't alternative and if they were doing it for the art then they wouldn't be going on a listening tour.

Tool is not "alternative" in the sense of the genre (that has become mainstream with many clone bands ... not really alternative at all) but in the sense of the word.

How does Tool going on a listening tour influence the art in any way? Oh noes people heard the album it must not be art! What?

[Paradigm619]

Tool is not "alternative" in the sense of the genre (that has become mainstream with many clone bands ... not really alternative at all) but in the sense of the word.

How does Tool going on a listening tour influence the art in any way? Oh noes people heard the album it must not be art! What?

I have no idea what you just said.

[Midgard]

Well for starts, it's something that not every second mallcore goth kid listens to.

[Midgard]

How does Tool going on a listening tour influence the art in any way? Oh noes people heard the album it must not be art! What?
Because if it was an art they wouldn't be going around trying to flog it off like a product.

[submachine]

I would say they did slightly "explode". .

I don't think you can "slightly" explode.

Metallica exploded.
Nirvana exploded.
Pearl Jam exploded.
RATM exploded.

And they all also imploded.

Releasing a new album which is immediately accesible to the mainstream and sells exponentially more than their last is exploding.

What TooL has done is slowly but steadily attract a loyal fanbase by NOT releasing an "accesible" mainstream album.

[Midgard]

So everything you listen is not alternative?

Please send me your album list so I can avoid all non-alternative music.

That didn't make any sense.

[Opiate_Mass]

Danny seems llike such a cool guy...I'd like to buy him a beer
and i'd like to drink that beer :)

[intoaneye]

You're* and "pfffft" = "I really am a massive tool who can't put thoughts into functioning grammatical/linguistic structures that other humans can conceive"? You have to help me, I'm doing my best to understand.

You can do it. Want a banana?

Sorry for not typing you are... and pffft is me farting because staying true to who you are doesnt have anything to do with money. Tool really think for themselves not because the money makes it easier.... But they sure do use their money wisely on making a superb album.... im sure you agree with me here KJM.... Alot of people who make money dont do much of anything productive. hence they loose focus with materialistic things...

im sure its a misunderstanding that you mean its easier to travel around the world and they can afford many things and become more knowledgable. But money doesnt make you out to be a genius like the band TOOl is. (not dissing you KJM, im just expressing my loyalty for the band)

[Noob_Jones]

Because if it was an art they wouldn't be going around trying to flog it off like a product.

Something can be art and a product at the same time because art sells. Art is its own thing separate from all else, its worth in dollars does not change its worth as art.

[ÆmorphousEnigma]

Just because something is popular and promoted does not mean that it does not have artistic merit. There are many things that Tool could have done to make Lateralus more mainstream friendly yet still retain its "alternative" or "intellectual" appeal. One could say that Tool are rather pretentious. If anything, Tool really seem to take pride in their art, although the new album cover has me in doubt. ;-)

[intoaneye]

why not just have no expectations til you get the album.... all your seeing is the product right now not the art. Then you get the art and you get the full "understanding" of the art. comments like leave me in doubt are not well thought out.

Dish it take it

[KJM]

Sorry for not typing you are... and pffft is me farting because staying true to who you are doesnt have anything to do with money. Tool really think for themselves not because the money makes it easier.... But they sure do use their money wisely on making a superb album.... im sure you agree with me here KJM.... Alot of people who make money dont do much of anything productive. hence they loose focus with materialistic things...

im sure its a misunderstanding that you mean its easier to travel around the world and they can afford many things and become more knowledgable. But money doesnt make you out to be a genius like the band TOOl is. (not dissing you KJM, im just expressing my loyalty for the band)


I'm not sure what any of the really had to do with what I said. I think you read something into what I wrote that wasn't there.

[KJM]

I don't think you can "slightly" explode.

Metallica exploded.
Nirvana exploded.
Pearl Jam exploded.
RATM exploded.

And they all also imploded.

Releasing a new album which is immediately accesible to the mainstream and sells exponentially more than their last is exploding.

What TooL has done is slowly but steadily attract a loyal fanbase by NOT releasing an "accesible" mainstream album.


They played a few shows, they got noticed by labels quick. First album had songs on the radio and videos on tv. They weren't selling out arenas, but let's be real, comparitively speaking that's a nice little controlled explosion that most bands would love to achieve.

[intoaneye]

I'm not sure what any of the really had to do with what I said. I think you read something into what I wrote that wasn't there.

i guess the best thing to do is ask. What is the statement? And why does it make it an easy statement since he doesnt have worry about money?

[KJM]

I'm saying it's easy to say "Don't focus on money when you're trying to make art" when you make money making art. But if you want your art to support you and be the focus of your life, you have to worry about it and put it in perspective.

[intoaneye]

I'm saying it's easy to say "Don't focus on money when you're trying to make art" when you make money making art. But if you want your art to support you and be the focus of your life, you have to worry about it and put it in perspective.

Well good thing they came out when MTV had actual music and variety...to get that explosion

and when i read what he says, i was thinking he meant they dont let money make them greedy and lazy. Im sure they are well aware that everyone knows they dont have to worry about money

[Midgard]

I'm saying it's easy to say "Don't focus on money when you're trying to make art" when you make money making art. But if you want your art to support you and be the focus of your life, you have to worry about it and put it in perspective.
When you've got 5 year intervals between albums, music shouldn't be a full time job.

[Spongebob]

When you've got 5 year intervals between albums, music shouldn't be a full time job.

when they tour around the world for two years straight and then have a year off busy with other projects and some short non music stuff then back to writing and jamming and recording then touring again.

i reckon it would be hard work.

[Midgard]

Yeah rehearsing for an hour and then playing a WHOLE two hour show is tough work. lmao.

[Octopod]

That's the way you do it. Get your money for nothing and your chicks for free.

[NoD]

Since when did musicians have real jobs? Steven seagal in Above the LAWLz

[mattw]

Yeah rehearsing for an hour and then playing a WHOLE two hour show is tough work. lmao.

How about you go 'rehearse' for an hour and then play a 2 hour show and see how many people turn up?

It's about quality, not quantity. Sure, Tool may not be working 9 to 5 everyday but they are making (hopefully) quality music and putting on great live shows for thousands of people when they tour.

Making a great album takes some time. I'm sure if Tool brought out material as frequently as Linkin Park or Britney Spears (who already has a 'greatest hits'?) then their popularity and credibility would drop, probably due to the fact the music wasn't as good etc.

Remember that interview where Maynard said "it takes time to grow as a person" and so on? He makes a valid point. If he had written lyrics for Tool's new album immediately after finishing with APC, they might not have been that creative and/or impressive...?

Art/music/creativity is a hard thing to measure in quantities of time. It's difficult to say to an artist "Have that awesome new material on my desk by 5pm Friday" etc.

I respect Tool as a band and its 4 members as musicians... so should you.

[UtUmNo1]

He was a sk8ter boi she said cya later boi...

[Midgard]

Making a great album takes some time. I'm sure if Tool brought out material as frequently as Linkin Park or Britney Spears (who already has a 'greatest hits'?) then their popularity and credibility would drop, probably due to the fact the music wasn't as good etc.
Of course not, that would drop them from the hip alternative league.

Art/music/creativity is a hard thing to measure in quantities of time. It's difficult to say to an artist "Have that awesome new material on my desk by 5pm Friday" etc.
Exactly why "musicians" shouldn't be able to make a full time living off "music".

[UtUmNo1]

Classic.

Why thank you.

[mattw]

Exactly why "musicians" shouldn't be able to make a full time living off "music".

Yeah, fair enough, but if you were making millions as a musician and you enjoyed your job, would you do something else inbetween?

I can see what you are saying - there are people out there who work many hours, every week, for many years only to end with relatively very little to others who are more fortunate etc.

I like how Tool put some space between their albums, although maybe not 5 years... I reckon 4 would be almost ideal. Release Lateralus in 01, tour until end of 02, take 03 off, write and record during 04/05 and release something maybe late 05? But then again, APC has been in there somewhere.

It would be interesting to see how Tool released things if APC never existed. Maybe if they release another album after this upcoming one it won't take as long but for now I'm happy to enjoy '10,000 Days' or whatever it will be called...

[submachine]

They played a few shows, they got noticed by labels quick. First album had songs on the radio and videos on tv.

So did a thousand other bands, they were on the same level as "Candlebox" back then.

[KJM]

right, and millions didn't. that doesn't change anything?

it did take five years, but they also worked on other projects.

[meatstick]

Cover me.
Wow, I was rockin out to that song in my Jnco jeans...

[Wretched]

You guys are getting dumber by the day. Why the fuck are you debating whether or not they are musicians and if they should get paid. If you don't think they should get paid, take it up with the millions of people who buy their albums and go to their shows; without them, Tool aren't making a living through music and art.

[intoaneye]

oh nananahhh eheyyy i have become cumbersome to this thread wait thats not even candlebox

[submachine]

right, and millions didn't. that doesn't change anything?

it did take five years, but they also worked on other projects.

The point is fame and popularity either explodes or it progresses.

With TooL, it slowly progressed without exploding over into the mainstream. They never hired Bob Rock and made a "Black" album. Their image has always been their art - audio and visual - not their haircuts. Thats why TooL / Danny is one of the few successful artists that can say "not do it for money, do it for the art of it" without fear of being contradicted, and thats what the fans respect.

[KJM]

I would say immediate exposure on your first LP is more than a slow process.

[Wretched]

It isn't like, well besides maynard, the band is working with REALLY great and commercially successful bands. Shit Skinny Puppy and The Melvins are great, but I don't the income from those are that great.

[dracomordag]

Of course not, that would drop them from the hip alternative league.


Exactly why "musicians" shouldn't be able to make a full time living off "music".

this is easily the most ignorant pile of shit i have ever read.

who the hell are you to critisize what people do for a job? you fucking buy their product, you support their artistic endeavors, what's your problem?

music takes just as much effort as anything else. Sure, once you make some money it gets a little easier because you're not as forced to push something out, but come on. The same thing happens with any success in any career: as soon as you make money, you don't have to put in as much work. Except the problem is, in music, you still have to put in all that work to get that product. If you have a billion dollars, you still have to find the inspiration and musical expression to record a record.

And don't act like you're all "rebel" by putting a career in "quotes" and implying that making "art" and "music" isn't "real". Drop the whole persona, it really just makes you look like a jackass

look, you try going out there and make 5 CDs worth of music and try making a living off of it and still maintaining your artistic integrity. Musicians put blood, sweat and tears into their work and you have no right to tear an entire career path and longstanding profession down.

[SpiralOutKeepGoing]

oh nananahhh eheyyy i have become cumbersome to this thread wait thats not even candlebox

That's Seven Mary Three.

[intoaneye]

correcto mundo

[Exoskeletal]

this is easily the most ignorant pile of shit i have ever read.

who the hell are you to critisize what people do for a job? you fucking buy their product, you support their artistic endeavors, what's your problem?

music takes just as much effort as anything else. Sure, once you make some money it gets a little easier because you're not as forced to push something out, but come on. The same thing happens with any success in any career: as soon as you make money, you don't have to put in as much work. Except the problem is, in music, you still have to put in all that work to get that product. If you have a billion dollars, you still have to find the inspiration and musical expression to record a record.

And don't act like you're all "rebel" by putting a career in "quotes" and implying that making "art" and "music" isn't "real". Drop the whole persona, it really just makes you look like a jackass

look, you try going out there and make 5 CDs worth of music and try making a living off of it and still maintaining your artistic integrity. Musicians put blood, sweat and tears into their work and you have no right to tear an entire career path and longstanding profession down.

Couldn't agree more with you. Well said.
Hooker With a Penis speaks for itself...
"All you know about me is what I've sold you, dumb fuck. I sold out long before you ever heard my name.
I sold my soul to make a record, dip shit, and you bought one."

[saigonsuicidesquad]

Because if it was an art they wouldn't be going around trying to flog it off like a product.

Have you ever gone to a travelling art gallery? Artists take their work and show it to people so they can experience it. Sure people will buy their album regardless of these listening parties. But let them have their time in the spotlight to show-off their baby that they've been working on for years. I too would be proud if I made an album like theirs.

And besides, a lot of this stuff is contractual with the record companies. A certain amount of advertising has to be done and this is probably how the guys thought it best to do that advertising (assuming they had some sort of say in the means of it)

If they were truly trying to go for a big buck they would be all over mtv and the like. No worries...

[KJM]

You still have to sell your art. Which is part of my issue with them saying you shouldn't be in it for money. You can't not be. To conform to make money is totally different, but to do what you enjoy doing while making an attempt at a record deal to support yourself with your art shouldn't be looked down upon.

[Crucify the Ego]

I would say immediate exposure on your first LP is more than a slow process.

I think the point is they didn't go around sending demo tapes to radio execs trying to get signed. They made music, played shows, and record companies were jumping at them because their music was really fucking good and people loved it. You can't fault them for that.

And to Midgard who's been repeatedly trivializing the work that Tool does. You might think that these 5 years off they've just been hanging around the pool eating barbeque, living the life. I think (and this has been supported by things Blair has said) that the past two years they've been working 40 hour weeks earnestly focusing on this baby they call 10,000 days. Spending 4,000 hours on a piece of art 77 minutes long is a hard concept to grasp for a lot of people, but these guys are perfectionists and every little detail is agonized over.

[Crucify the Ego]

You still have to sell your art. Which is part of my issue with them saying you shouldn't be in it for money. You can't not be. To conform to make money is totally different, but to do what you enjoy doing while making an attempt at a record deal to support yourself with your art shouldn't be looked down upon.

I understand what you're saying but your missing one key element. Most record companies could care less what the music actually is, the band first and foremost has to have a following. No matter how good your music is, you wont get anywhere unless people are buying it. It's fans first then record deal, not the other way around.

[KJM]

I understand what you're saying but your missing one key element. Most record companies could care less what the music actually is, the band first and foremost has to have a following. No matter how good your music is, you wont get anywhere unless people are buying it. It's fans first then record deal, not the other way around.

Actually, it should be artist first. Fans are just a happy plus. Fans shouldn't have anything to do with it.

I enjoy what I do, therefor I should attempt to make money doing it. I shouldn't have to worry about appeasing fans or waiting for them to find me.

I think the point is they didn't go around sending demo tapes to radio execs trying to get signed. They made music, played shows, and record companies were jumping at them because their music was really fucking good and people loved it. You can't fault them for that.

And to Midgard who's been repeatedly trivializing the work that Tool does. You might think that these 5 years off they've just been hanging around the pool eating barbeque, living the life. I think (and this has been supported by things Blair has said) that the past two years they've been working 40 hour weeks earnestly focusing on this baby they call 10,000 days. Spending 4,000 hours on a piece of art 77 minutes long is a hard concept to grasp for a lot of people, but these guys are perfectionists and every little detail is agonized over.


1. They didn't really need to send out demos because they had interest so fast
2. They did make a demo

[meatstick]

the lead singer of Crash test Dummies, looks like Falcor from the Neverending Story.

Once, there wa s this girl who....

[Crucify the Ego]

O I agree fans shouldn't compromise your music, it should be artist first. I was speaking strictly from the record companies perspective and motivation, they won't sign you unless they think your gonna sell some records.

To your "I enjoy what I do, therefor I should attempt to make money doing it. I shouldn't have to worry about appeasing fans or waiting for them to find me." statement, this is kind of paradoxal isn't it? Because after all the only way to make money is for fans to buy it.

(I still don't know how to quote only part of a post)

[KJM]

Oh it's true, I just mean I shouldn't have to wait and if it doesn't work it doesn't work. But I'll end up trying not matter what the scenrio is.

[chalimar]

I still don't know how to quote only part of a post

Delete the rest?

[sularetal]

Delete the rest?

Just don't delete the whole fuckin thread for GOD's SAKE!!!

[dracomordag]

Just don't delete the whole fuckin thread for GOD's SAKE!!!

wait....

what?

[dave.]

Go fish, negative wanker.
Nice touch.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Danny seems llike such a cool guy...I'd like to buy him a beer
He is a good dude

[submachine]

I would say immediate exposure on your first LP is more than a slow process.

Check the sales numbers for two or three YEARS after that LP was "immediately exposed"

[KJM]

how much popularity they gained after getting exposure practically right off the bat is not what I'm talking about.

[submachine]

how much popularity they gained after getting exposure practically right off the bat is not what I'm talking about.

Then youre missing the point: "exposure practically right off the bat" means nothing. Candlebox
Seven Mary Three
Silverchair
Better Than Ezra
Sponge
Bush
Mad Season
Etc
All charted higher than Opiate

[RedVilliam]

how much popularity they gained after getting exposure practically right off the bat is not what I'm talking about.
Tool wasn't really that popular right of the bat. I saw them at Lalapalooza back the early '90's and the crowd was like "who is this.... fool?" (pun intended)

[KJM]

You're right sub, what is that compared to all those hundreds thousands of bands who never see more the 10 people in a crowd and never make it out of a basement.

I'm not talking a grand scale. To me, an aspiring musician who would love to make money in music -- they hit it big on the first release.

[paraflux]

this is easily the most ignorant pile of shit i have ever read.

who the hell are you to critisize what people do for a job? you fucking buy their product, you support their artistic endeavors, what's your problem?

music takes just as much effort as anything else. Sure, once you make some money it gets a little easier because you're not as forced to push something out, but come on. The same thing happens with any success in any career: as soon as you make money, you don't have to put in as much work. Except the problem is, in music, you still have to put in all that work to get that product. If you have a billion dollars, you still have to find the inspiration and musical expression to record a record.

And don't act like you're all "rebel" by putting a career in "quotes" and implying that making "art" and "music" isn't "real". Drop the whole persona, it really just makes you look like a jackass

look, you try going out there and make 5 CDs worth of music and try making a living off of it and still maintaining your artistic integrity. Musicians put blood, sweat and tears into their work and you have no right to tear an entire career path and longstanding profession down.
Chill the fuck, dawg

[amhx147]

tool has hints of blues

[Midgard]

Tool aren't making a living through music and art.
lmao, what?
this is easily the most ignorant pile of shit i have ever read.

who the hell are you to critisize what people do for a job? you fucking buy their product, you support their artistic endeavors, what's your problem?
I don't buy Tool cds lmao.

music takes just as much effort as anything else. Sure, once you make some money it gets a little easier because you're not as forced to push something out, but come on. The same thing happens with any success in any career: as soon as you make money, you don't have to put in as much work. Except the problem is, in music, you still have to put in all that work to get that product. If you have a billion dollars, you still have to find the inspiration and musical expression to record a record.And that's why your performance usually drops.

look, you try going out there and make 5 CDs worth of music and try making a living off of it and still maintaining your artistic integrity. Musicians put blood, sweat and tears into their work and you have no right to tear an entire career path and longstanding profession down.
Oh OK, to paraphrase what mope said one day, if I can't criticise Tool for making bad music because I could never be as good as them, then people shouldn't be able to criticise the president since most of them couldn't do his job. Bzt wrong you fail.

Couldn't agree more with you. Well said.
Hooker With a Penis speaks for itself...
"All you know about me is what I've sold you, dumb fuck. I sold out long before you ever heard my name.
I sold my soul to make a record, dip shit, and you bought one."
Further proving my point that Tool is making a product, not art.

Have you ever gone to a travelling art gallery? Artists take their work and show it to people so they can experience it. Sure people will buy their album regardless of these listening parties. But let them have their time in the spotlight to show-off their baby that they've been working on for years. I too would be proud if I made an album like theirs.
Sure, but they aren't selling it to anyone are they?

And besides, a lot of this stuff is contractual with the record companies. A certain amount of advertising has to be done and this is probably how the guys thought it best to do that advertising (assuming they had some sort of say in the means of it)That's what you get for signing to a big record label.

If they were truly trying to go for a big buck they would be all over mtv and the like. No worries...
Not really, they are making enough money targetting the so called "alternative" crowd.

I think the point is they didn't go around sending demo tapes to radio execs trying to get signed. lmao OK, even though they made a demo.

I think (and this has been supported by things Blair has said) that the past two years they've been working 40 hour weeks earnestly focusing on this baby they call 10,000 days.I call that doctoring "music" if they are seriously spending that much time, which I doubt anyway.

[submachine]

You're right sub, what is that compared to all those hundreds thousands of bands who never see more the 10 people in a crowd and never make it out of a basement.

Well you're wrongly comparing TooL to bands that aren't good enough to get signed.

Im comparing them to bands who were, and who also initially had a much larger, broader audience. Instead of competing with that fame and making equally accessible music, TooL put their art first, and slowly their fanbase grew because of it.

TooL is not as popular as the biggest bands who did explode onto the music scene, they are not "liked" by the casual listener. They are loved by their fans, and they are unknown to everyone else. As with anything truly great.

[Midgard]

Yes Tool are really unknown.

[ÆmorphousEnigma]

Tool inspires fanatacism.

[Midgard]

Tool inspires a bunch of idiots to think that they intellectual free thinking individuals, when really they are just stoner, high school drop outs.

Really though, there's not much difference between System of a Down and Tool, besides the fact that System of a Down can do what Tool do in 3 minutes, instead of 10.

[Tyson]

Tool inspires a bunch of idiots to think that they intellectual free thinking individuals, when really they are just stoner, high school drop outs.

Really though, there's not much difference between System of a Down and Tool, besides the fact that System of a Down can do what Tool do in 3 minutes, instead of 10.

But then again some see through the mediaocrity ad move on.

[Unstuck in Time]

My first post here. Be nice or else I'll cry.


I don't get Midgard's point. What is your problem with Tool? What is your problem with the band itself?

[smirk]

I would say they did slightly "explode". I also agree that it's an easy statement to make when you don't have to worry about money.


They have been doing thier way since day one and it has NOTHING to do with money. It's called integrity and I salute them for it.

I am broke but I could go play bullshit music in some cover band and make money every weekend but I don't.

To my experience, when Sober came out, Tool exploded.

[chalimar]

@Midgard:

What are you doing here? You obviously despise Tool. And your argumentation is very weak.

[KJM]

They have been doing thier way since day one and it has NOTHING to do with money. It's called integrity and I salute them for it.

I am broke but I could go play bullshit music in some cover band and make money every weekend but I don't.

To my experience, when Sober came out, Tool exploded.

I didn't say anything negative in what you quoted


Well you're wrongly comparing TooL to bands that aren't good enough to get signed.

Ohhh you're right. I should be wrongly comparing them to the bad bands that do get signed. Clearly my mistake.

[dracomordag]

lmao, what?

I don't buy Tool cds lmao.

And that's why your performance usually drops.


Oh OK, to paraphrase what mope said one day, if I can't criticise Tool for making bad music because I could never be as good as them, then people shouldn't be able to criticise the president since most of them couldn't do his job. Bzt wrong you fail.


Further proving my point that Tool is making a product, not art.


Sure, but they aren't selling it to anyone are they?

That's what you get for signing to a big record label.


Not really, they are making enough money targetting the so called "alternative" crowd.

lmao OK, even though they made a demo.

I call that doctoring "music" if they are seriously spending that much time, which I doubt anyway.


LOL at missing the point

all that matters is that you're bitching about Tool taking a while to perfect their product and furthering this argument to say that all musicians are losers who have no right to make money off of their work.

nice try, but that's just plain retarded.

[Midgard]

all that matters is that you're bitching about Tool taking a while to perfect their product
Oh so you agree that they are making a product now? and furthering this argument to say that all musicians are losers who have no right to make money off of their work.
nope, the only money they should make is to pay the record label back.

[Octopod]

Oh so you agree that they are making a product now? and
nope, the only money they should make is to pay the record label back.

Hi. I think your standards for artists are lame.

Bye.

[Idiotica]

art and product are the same thing silly bums

[KJM]

art and product are the same thing silly bums
You can make art without a product. Unfortunately that's generally what people who have a hobby do as opposed to people who make a living at art.

[Unstuck in Time]

You can make art without a product. Unfortunately that's generally what people who have a hobby do as opposed to people who make a living at art.
yep. it might become a dilemma. but it doesn't necessarily have to.

[Octopod]

yep. it might become a dilemma. but it doesn't necessarily have to.

It's only a problem if you comprimise your art to fit the construct of the system. Tool have never done that. They've never had a single shorter than 4:56, and certainly nothing within the 3:30 "pop song" barrier that most bands sell their records (and souls) with. Most of Tool's singles have been six minutes plus. I wouldn't call that commercial compliance. They play the songs they want, with the bands they want on tour. They wouldn't even agree to do Ozzfest unless the Melvins were included. They've become even less commercial over the years, basically forcing the system to conform to their art because of their popularity.

[Midgard]

Yes because song length is the only thing that determines whether a band is commercial or not.

[Octopod]

Yes because song length is the only thing that determines whether a band is commercial or not.

Hey, by and large, the bands that have the most commercial success are bands that sell music based on the same song writing formula that Chuck Berry used. Verse, Chorus, Verse, bridge, Chorus. That's it. We keep getting it every year, and hundreds of bands keep writing the same shit and keep getting played on the radio.

It just seems a bit ridiculous that you would hold something against Tool when you look at what they have offered over the years. Yeah, they make money. So? They're still an alternative to the usual garbage available in the mainstream.

[dracomordag]

Oh so you agree that they are making a product now? and
nope, the only money they should make is to pay the record label back.

Yes, they do sell their work. That makes it a product. And you STILL don't get the point about music. How is it any less valid for a band to make money making music than it is for a computer company to make money selling computers? A bus company charging fare? Your argument is horribly weak.

[Midgard]

BECAUSE A COMPUTER IS NOT ART NOR DOES IT CLAIM TO BE.

[Unstuck in Time]

It's only a problem if you comprimise your art to fit the construct of the system. Tool have never done that. They've never had a single shorter than 4:56, and certainly nothing within the 3:30 "pop song" barrier that most bands sell their records (and souls) with. Most of Tool's singles have been six minutes plus. I wouldn't call that commercial compliance. They play the songs they want, with the bands they want on tour. They wouldn't even agree to do Ozzfest unless the Melvins were included. They've become even less commercial over the years, basically forcing the system to conform to their art because of their popularity.
I don't disagree. You've just described what I like about Tool.

Yes because song length is the only thing that determines whether a band is commercial or not.
I think in pop music (≠classical music) song length is actually very often an indication of "whether a band is commercial or not".

[dracomordag]

BECAUSE A COMPUTER IS NOT ART NOR DOES IT CLAIM TO BE.

it is still a valid way of making money. sorry. you can't argue that art is only a product and then turn around and say that they can't make money selling a product.

[Midgard]

I think in pop music (≠classical music) song length is actually very often an indication of "whether a band is commercial or not".
Um OK, so that's why Opeth have 10-15 minute songs yet Cryptopsy have 3 minute songs, so Cryptopsy must be more commercial hmm...

[Midgard]

it is still a valid way of making money. sorry. you can't argue that art is only a product and then turn around and say that they can't make money selling a product.
I never argued that you queer bait, I was arguing that Tool is a product not art. However thank you for successfully proving my point.

[dracomordag]

I never argued that you queer bait, I was arguing that Tool is a product not art. However thank you for successfully proving my point.

so what, in that case, is art?

what you need to realize is that those who pursue art can very easily sell their product to let themselves have a decent livelyhood and still produce quality art. We don't need homeless painters begging us for money.

[Unstuck in Time]

Um OK, so that's why Opeth have 10-15 minute songs yet Cryptopsy have 3 minute songs, so Cryptopsy must be more commercial hmm...
Yeah, that must make ANAL CUNT "more commercial" than Britney Spears! :D
I said song length was an indication.

[Unstuck in Time]

so what, in that case, is art?

what you need to realize is that those who pursue art can very easily sell their product to let themselves have a decent livelyhood and still produce quality art. We don't need homeless painters begging us for money.
I'm glad you're introducing the painters!
A painting is unique. You can take photos of it and have the photos copied. But the painting remains the only original. It's so different with music (and writing).

Excuse my coherence-lacking thoughts, I'm in a rush.

[Midgard]

what you need to realize is that those who pursue art can very easily sell their product to let themselves have a decent livelyhood and still produce quality art. We don't need homeless painters begging us for money.
No actually they don't, the problem is, once a band gets to a certain point, has enough money to live a "decent livelyhood" off art, they no longer have any will to continue on struggling to be better and instead just become money hungry and resort to creating easily consumed music for the masses. Such is the case for bands like Metallica, Dimmu Borgir, Opeth (arguably) and so forth.

However I wouldn't consider this the case of Tool, since they've always been fairly commercial to begin with, I mean c'mon, Sober and Hush are catchy as hell, and Hush goes for like what, a bit less than 3 minutes?

[Midgard]

I'm glad you're introducing the painters!
A painting is unique. You can take photos of it and have the photos copied. But the painting remains the only original. It's so different with music (and writing).

Excuse my coherence-lacking thoughts, I'm in a rush.
Exactly, the problem with music when it's mass produced and easily accessible is it's more like picking out a favourite brand of soda rather than exploring an art form, doesn't work quite the same way for painting fortunately.

[dracomordag]

All I'm trying to say is that you can't critisize an artist for making art, or tear it down as a career choice. The whole "with success come decadence" is a temptation for people in all fields.

[champion]

This thread is getting a little dumb.

Bands with integrity don't care about money, and they're the bands that matter.

[dracomordag]

This thread is getting a little dumb.

Bands with integrity don't care about money, and they're the bands that matter.

truth

[champion]

Tool inspires a bunch of idiots to think that they intellectual free thinking individuals, when really they are just stoner, high school drop outs.

Really though, there's not much difference between System of a Down and Tool, besides the fact that System of a Down can do what Tool do in 3 minutes, instead of 10.

System of a Down can do what Tool does?

I haven't heard anything resembling Triad, Pushit, or Lateralus out of System of a Down. Sorry.

[Harry Manback]

What is and isn't art is subjective.

There's no point debating whether TOOL is art or not.

[KJM]

I don't want a whole new flame war here but they do care about money, because they have to. It's how they live.

[submachine]

I don't want a whole new flame war here but they do care about money, because they have to. It's how they live.

Thats eloquent like a 5 year old.

This thread is officially retarded.

"Shut up and Buy my new record Send more money Fuck you, buddy."

[KJM]

Thats eloquent like a 5 year old.

This thread is officially retarded.

"Shut up and Buy my new record Send more money Fuck you, buddy."

Are you kidding? You can't say I'm, "eloquent like a 5 year old"--which was worded so poorly--then call something retarded and quote a song. Wow. You fail.

[Unstuck in Time]

No actually they don't, the problem is, once a band gets to a certain point, has enough money to live a "decent livelyhood" off art, they no longer have any will to continue on struggling to be better and instead just become money hungry and resort to creating easily consumed music for the masses. Such is the case for bands like Metallica, Dimmu Borgir, Opeth (arguably) and so forth.

However I wouldn't consider this the case of Tool, since they've always been fairly commercial to begin with, I mean c'mon, Sober and Hush are catchy as hell, and Hush goes for like what, a bit less than 3 minutes?
Are you in such a band? Do you have first-hand experience? What makes you sure about bands becoming "money-hungry" when reaching a certain point in their career? Couldn't it be that most bands, particularly their songwriters, just don't have any "creativity" left in their tanks after some quality years? Of course, luxury may accelerate this process. And it many cases it has.
Still, the ones responsible are the fans. At least those fans buying every piece of shit their oh so infallible Gods publish. So far (- Lateralus), I haven't noticed a "creative descent" in Tool's career. If [Title of new Tool album] turns out to be not as fascinating as its predecessors, I will not hesitate to walk away from all the hype, from this "circle". That does NOT mean that I consider myself a heroic example.

General address: Band comparisons ("X are more efficient songwriters than Y") are lame.

[Octopod]

Exactly, the problem with music when it's mass produced and easily accessible is it's more like picking out a favourite brand of soda rather than exploring an art form, doesn't work quite the same way for painting fortunately.

It can be argued that no one has an "original" of anyones music, though. No one but Tool has the master tapes. We all just have copies that are digital and packaged nicely.

Your favorite soda metaphor is also inadequate. Coke, Dr. Pepper and Squirt are all close enough tasting that the difference in effect is barely perceptible. I wouldn't say that about music in general.

Painters also sell their work for money. Do you mean to tell me that Picasso, Miro and Klee weren't artists just because they sold their work as products?

[Sol Invictus]

I agree with octopod. Any art that isnt sold usually isnt as appreciated as it could be if it were made available to a wide audience....thats just a cold fact about this world we live in.

[dracomordag]

Thats eloquent like a 5 year old.

This thread is officially retarded.

"Shut up and Buy my new record Send more money Fuck you, buddy."

this is almost as bad as the midguard posts in this thread

nice job