Aenema influence

[NoD]

It's strange how tool says 10,000 days is more like undertow as if they wanted to go back to the original formula, when aenema is problem the album with the best individual tracks. Why are they distancing themselves form aenema, especially when songs such as eulogy, hwap, and aenima are just as raw and cynical as it appears the new album is going to be.

[Weapon]

i definetly hoping for more aenima style then undertow

[chalimar]

and i hope there's no resemblance to any of their previous albums.

[zenkinet]

and i hope there's no resemblance to any of their previous albums.
amen

[eddie75]

I think they are trying to say that they are going back towards a harder sound. Undertow is their hardest album, so that's the correlation.

[eddie75]

Well because it had more hard songs than the following two albums.

[Andorion]

Disgustipated

[eddie75]

List the hard songs, please?
How about I just put the entire track list up. More like can you find a mellow one. The closest thing I can think of is 4degrees, and even then I'm stretching.

Aenmia has a couple and Lateralus have more than Aenima.

[pork chops]

why is undertow the hardest. i do not agree. it is a great album but there hardest it is not. poor sound quality does not equal hard. Aenima is much harder, and better musically and recorded with more quality. i love undertow, but it is not there hardest. even Opiate is harder

[TurdEye13]

and i hope there's no resemblance to any of their previous albums.

same here

[eddie75]

Sober, prision sex, bottom, crawl away, undertow, and flood would all be considered harder than many of the songs on anemia and lateralus. Tools anger has become less with each album, and I think they are taking some of that back from previous albums on this one. Just a guess since none of us have actually heard it.

[Octopod]

I don't think there will ever be an album from this band that doesn't share a number of resemblences to the other records. But I hope that the new record has a distinct and intelligent sound all it's own that takes us somewhere new.

[eddie75]

Anger does not equal harder imho.
In the case of tool it does in my opinion. The harder songs on their albums tend to be the angrier ones. Hooker with a penis, aenima, the grudge, ticks and leaches. These aren't exactly happy songs.

[chalimar]

I don't think there will ever be an album from this band that doesn't share a number of resemblences to the other records. But I hope that the new record has a distinct and intelligent sound all it's own that takes us somewhere new.

agreed. there's always SOME resemblance, because tool always sounds like tool. still, every album they've made sounds very different.

[eddie75]

I like to listen to hard music While I lift, and I'd take undertow over another tool album in the gym. It's just more consistent in hard music category

[tentonmantra]

i just hope maynard don´t sing much like undertow and ticks and leeches.
other than that i bet this is gonna be an awesome album.

[paraology]

Undertow is raw but its not that heavy. I think the guitar tone in some of the songs on undertow, particularly swamp song are weak.

[TheHolyGift]

When did they ever say it's like Undertow? All I've heard is that its their heaviest material since Undertow. The reviews make it sound more like Lateralus, but heavier.

[RacecaR123]

No one stated they were going back to the undertow formula, they simply said they were frustrated like they were in that time...there's plenty of hard music in lateralus. For instance, the Grudge, the Patient, Schism, TICKS AND LEACHES, Parabola, Lateralus, Reflection, Triad...of course there's the inbetweens in the songs where it gets a little mellow and more ambient, but there's still plenty of heavy riffs even in the last record...so it will probably just be more focused in that area in a few songs on this record...Tool making another cd like undertow wouldn't make sense, they would be de-evolving...which I know is not something they would "promote". Who knows what to expect really, we can play the guessing game forever based on a few words, but they've always been humble guys...they're not going to come out and say "this record fucking blew my mind, we're insane"...in an interview with Maynard after lateralus came out he summarized the album as "I really went out of my way to discover the things I don't like about people, for self- reflection"...you can't just take what they say in interviews and have that as a base for the upcoming record...

[stinkfish]

Sober, prision sex, bottom, crawl away, undertow, and flood would all be considered harder than many of the songs on anemia and lateralus. Tools anger has become less with each album, and I think they are taking some of that back from previous albums on this one. Just a guess since none of us have actually heard it.

agree.

even tho aenima is "harder" and cynikal in a better way.

[Octopod]

A different way, but not better in my opinion.

[pork chops]

Aenima=best album ever

[Natalie Portman]

It's strange how tool says 10,000 days is more like undertow as if they wanted to go back to the original formula, when aenema is problem the album with the best individual tracks. Why are they distancing themselves form aenema, especially when songs such as eulogy, hwap, and aenima are just as raw and cynical as it appears the new album is going to be.
Wtf? You don't know what it's going to sound like. You are making assumptions, and then assuming they are true, and then making new assumption based on likely false "facts". That is called circular logic. This is ALL wild speculation. No one knows what it will sound like yet, aside from the people at the listening parties.

[MasterOfKtulu109]

the band never said it was like undertow.

people heard it was heavy, so they automatically assumed it was like undertow.

[kyyuulle]

you know this album is going to be golden

[Octopod]

Lol at McRog

[dracomordag]

i hope this album is good

lol guyz, m i rite?

[ATARI]

What is this "aenema" you speak of?

[a788]

What is this "aenema" you speak of?

haha

[KJM]

and i hope there's no resemblance to any of their previous albums.


Oh, you want a tool funk album? I see.

[champion]

I like to listen to hard music While I lift, and I'd take undertow over another tool album in the gym. It's just more consistent in hard music category

HAHAHAHA.

[exojjl]

why is undertow the hardest. i do not agree. it is a great album but there hardest it is not. poor sound quality does not equal hard. Aenima is much harder, and better musically and recorded with more quality. i love undertow, but it is not there hardest. even Opiate is harder
I wouldnt say better....I would say different personally......for quality wise. I notice with Undertow its more ambient-roomy-reverby studio type sound......but aenema I heard (which im not sure if its true) was recorded on a 8-track......they're both totally different recorded sounds either way....I think aenema has some harder parts to them, not as many as undertow, but when its the moment on aenema, you really know they are hitting you fucking hard. Like the chorus on 46&2....the ending parts of 46&2....some parts of eulogy. End of stinkfist......a few moments on H. .......so on, etc.......

[KZSteele]

Re: Hard....... opiate, anyone?

[NoD]

MAN DANGLE LOVERRRR

MAN DANGLE LOOVVVVERRRRRR

[SpareForTheWarFishers]

What is this "aenema" you speak of?

isnt that when they shoot water up your butt or something?

[TheHolyGift]

isnt that when they shoot water up your butt or something?

And sometimes a fist...

[kyyuulle]

i listen to between the buried in me when I lift...

[SpareForTheWarFishers]

And sometimes a fist...

Yeah but you gotta pay extra for that!

[Xanatos]

The Grudge is not heavy. The Grudge has a few moments when it gets interesting but for the most part, no, just no. The only amazing song on Lateralus was Schism. Everything else was either "meh" or terrible. Lateralus was, by far, the weakest record by Tool.

Aenima is, in my humble opinion, the best record from Tool; closely followed by Undertow.

In regard to "heaviness" of Aenima and Undertow, Undertow has more of a straightforward, "Rock" feel, but it isn't just straightforward "Rock". I have yet come up with a word to fully describe Undertow. Aenima on the other hand, has songs that bite. And once they bite, they don't let go or let you down. AEnima had just the right amount of comical relief, absurdity, and anger to make it a classic. Anyone who thinks that Aenima was topped by Lateralus is wrong.

Have a nice day.

[APT]

The only amazing song on Lateralus was Schism. Everything else was either "meh" or terrible. Lateralus was, by far, the weakest record by Tool.


Get the fuck out.

[Natalie Portman]

The Grudge is not heavy. The Grudge has a few moments when it gets interesting but for the most part, no, just no. The only amazing song on Lateralus was Schism. Everything else was either "meh" or terrible. Lateralus was, by far, the weakest record by Tool.

Aenima is, in my humble opinion, the best record from Tool; closely followed by Undertow.

In regard to "heaviness" of Aenima and Undertow, Undertow has more of a straightforward, "Rock" feel, but it isn't just straightforward "Rock". I have yet come up with a word to fully describe Undertow. Aenima on the other hand, has songs that bite. And once they bite, they don't let go or let you down. AEnima had just the right amount of comical relief, absurdity, and anger to make it a classic. Anyone who thinks that Aenima was topped by Lateralus is wrong.

Have a nice day.
Although I will agree with you that Ænima tops Lateralus, I have a hard time calling Lateralus their weakest album. While I do enjoy Opiate from time to time, it's hard to say that they didn't grow a lot as a band afterwards. I would personally rank their albums Ænima>Lateralus>Undertow>Salival>Opiate. Lateralus is a badass album. In fact, the song Lateralus is one of my favorite Tool songs ever.

[SpareForTheWarFishers]

The Grudge is not heavy. The Grudge has a few moments when it gets interesting but for the most part, no, just no. The only amazing song on Lateralus was Schism. Everything else was either "meh" or terrible. Lateralus was, by far, the weakest record by Tool.

Aenima is, in my humble opinion, the best record from Tool; closely followed by Undertow.

In regard to "heaviness" of Aenima and Undertow, Undertow has more of a straightforward, "Rock" feel, but it isn't just straightforward "Rock". I have yet come up with a word to fully describe Undertow. Aenima on the other hand, has songs that bite. And once they bite, they don't let go or let you down. AEnima had just the right amount of comical relief, absurdity, and anger to make it a classic. Anyone who thinks that Aenima was topped by Lateralus is wrong.

Have a nice day.

I respect your opinion, however, I cant relate to your total distregard for the genius that is Lateralus. I think Lateralus is the perfection of Tools sound and I am woried that 10,000 Days wont be able to top it.

[von satan]

1. AEnima
2. Lateralus
3. Undertow
4. Opiate
5. Salival

In my opinion anyway.

Best TOOL SONG ever = Third eye

Agree with me ? good. dont agree ? i dont give a fuck.

[dracomordag]

Why do people always insist that their opinion is the only correct one?

most retarded thing I've ever seen.

[APT]

I respect your opinion...

I don't.

I cant relate to your total distregard for the genius that is Lateralus. I think Lateralus is the perfection of Tools sound and I am woried that 10,000 Days wont be able to top it.

Summed it up very nicely.

[von satan]

Why do people always insist that their opinion is the only correct one?

most retarded thing I've ever seen.

it is my opinion draco, am i not entitled to post MY opinion ?

whats is your opinion then ? retard

[dracomordag]

it is my opinion draco, am i not entitled to post MY opinion ?

whats is your opinion then ? retard

I wasn't talking to you

[von satan]

I wasn't talking to you

well i must apologise, sorry, so in any case draco, what IS your opinion ?

[Natalie Portman]

Why do people always insist that their opinion is the only correct one?

most retarded thing I've ever seen.
then were you talking to me? I never even remotely said that I thought my opinion was right and anyone's was wrong.
Best TOOL SONG ever = Third eye
I agree.

[NoD]

The Grudge is not heavy. The Grudge has a few moments when it gets interesting but for the most part, no, just no. The only amazing song on Lateralus was Schism. Everything else was either "meh" or terrible. Lateralus was, by far, the weakest record by Tool.

Aenima is, in my humble opinion, the best record from Tool; closely followed by Undertow.

In regard to "heaviness" of Aenima and Undertow, Undertow has more of a straightforward, "Rock" feel, but it isn't just straightforward "Rock". I have yet come up with a word to fully describe Undertow. Aenima on the other hand, has songs that bite. And once they bite, they don't let go or let you down. AEnima had just the right amount of comical relief, absurdity, and anger to make it a classic. Anyone who thinks that Aenima was topped by Lateralus is wrong.

Have a nice day.

Your lack of respect for Lateralus disturbs me. Although overall I'd have to say Lateralus is their best work, I still think if Aenima had less segues and more cohesion, it could've easily topped Lateralus. It really was an amazing piece of work how it scraped the bottom of the human psyche while still retaining a spark of spirituality. Truly a spiritual cleansing.

[exojjl]

Agree with me ? good. dont agree ? i dont give a fuck.
thats just great! thats what I like to see!!!!!

[dracomordag]

then were you talking to me? I never even remotely said that I thought my opinion was right and anyone's was wrong.

I agree.

I was talking to Xanthos or wahtever for "Anyone who thinks that Aenima was topped by Lateralus is wrong."

my opinion:

1. Lateralus
2. Aenima
3. Undertow
4. Opiate

notice a pattern?

[Natalie Portman]

my opinion:

1. Lateralus
2. Aenima
3. Undertow
4. Opiate

notice a pattern?
I think Lateralus and Ænima are almost equal. While the songs on Lateralus were just completely tight and well though out, I just personally got more out of Ænima. That album changed the way I listen to music, and think about things in general. If I were stuck on an island and had to pick just one of those albums, I wouldn't be pissed off with either.

[von satan]

I was talking to Xanthos or wahtever for "Anyone who thinks that Aenima was topped by Lateralus is wrong."

my opinion:

1. Lateralus
2. Aenima
3. Undertow
4. Opiate

notice a pattern?

i take it you pattern means you expect 10000 days to top Lateralus ? i too hope it does, but will it top AEnima ? again i hope it does...........time will tell my friend

[von satan]

I think Lateralus and Ænima are almost equal. While the songs on Lateralus were just completely tight and well though out, I just personally got more out of Ænima. That album changed the way I listen to music, and think about things in general. If I were stuck on an island and had to pick just one of those albums, I wouldn't be pissed off with either.


haha you'd just hope you had a cd player on the freakin island !! or mp3 !!

[dracomordag]

Aenima has stronger individual tracks, but due to poor mixing/producing (which some people I hear actually like), and a little lack of focus, it comes off as a weaker record to me. I still love the main tracks (Stinkfist, H., 46&2, jimmy, Pushit, Aenema and Third Eye are standouts, of course) but Lateralus just has a phenomnal build and flow to it.

not to mention that, to me, that ending to Lateralus is one of the most moving, beautiful pieces of music ever composed. And then it's followed up by Disposition, which is such a great juxtaposition to Lateralus (the song).

[Natalie Portman]

haha you'd just hope you had a cd player on the freakin island !! or mp3 !!
haha well, yeah I guess the CD by itself wouldn't do me much good would it? I suppose I would need some sort of solar power device too while we're at it!

[NoD]

I think 10,000 days has a good chance of being the best album. I mean it's been 5 damn years they've been working on it (yeah maynard was in apc and they toured till 02, but still). Not to mention Adam even says it's their best work. I know he wants to hype up his album, but I would think he sees each of his albums as his children and he wouldn't choose a favorite, but he's gone far enough to say 10k days > the others.

Plus, what's gotten me more interested is that one review where the guy said the first half of the album is straight up basic hard rock and the 2nd half is spiritual like lateralus. It'll be amazing if the album actually progresses from undertowish songs to aenima type songs to a lateralus vibe all in the span of 1 album. I wouldn't think it could be done, but I don't think it's wise to underestimate tool....

[Natalie Portman]

not to mention that, to me, that ending to Lateralus is one of the most moving, beautiful pieces of music ever composed.
Fuck yes.
Third Eye and Lateralus are my two favorite Tool songs. If they crank out a long song, odds are that I will fucking love it.

[dracomordag]

I think 10,000 days has a good chance of being the best album. I mean it's been 5 damn years they've been working on it (yeah maynard was in apc and they toured till 02, but still). Not to mention Adam even says it's their best work. I know he wants to hype up his album, but I would think he sees each of his albums as his children and he wouldn't choose a favorite, but he's gone far enough to say 10k days > the others.

Plus, what's gotten me more interested is that one review where the guy said the first half of the album is straight up basic hard rock and the 2nd half is spiritual like lateralus. It'll be amazing if the album actually progresses from undertowish songs to aenima type songs to a lateralus vibe all in the span of 1 album. I wouldn't think it could be done, but I don't think it's wise to underestimate tool....

Yea, I was kinda digging this view of it as well. Start of with a sort of "sequel" to Undertow (that supposed heavy intro) move to some crazy territory (third eye sequel), then a straight up rock track (sober maybe?), conjure some Lipans to transition, then go into a heavy, epic track, followed by "Shades of the more ‘moody’ Lateralus tracks again." then a huge build up track (see signature) followed by a crazy outro.

[NoD]

Yea, I was kinda digging this view of it as well. Start of with a sort of "sequel" to Undertow (that supposed heavy intro) move to some crazy territory (third eye sequel), then a straight up rock track (sober maybe?), conjure some Lipans to transition, then go into a heavy, epic track, followed by "Shades of the more ‘moody’ Lateralus tracks again." then a huge build up track (see signature) followed by a crazy outro.

Back now. It's a really fucking good solid release.

First few tracks are much heavier guitar wise than lateralus. Staying on pretty straight grooves most of the time 6/4.

Vocals are a lot more likened to APC stuff too.
Then the whole album turns a bit spiritual and you get a lot of tabla and bongo work. HEAPS of intense build ups.

Track 5 or 6 will be the single. Punchy. Catchy and has this awesome Vocal intro.

THE LAST SONG IS THE BEST TOOL SONG EVER WRITTEN.
Electronic drum kit and it's just the most epic thing i've heard.

Looks like it's an end of April release and no name is confirmed yet.

exactamundo

[von satan]

i hope you're right, sounds fuckin awesome !!!

[KJM]

but aenema I heard (which im not sure if its true) was recorded on a 8-track.


dude, not trying to be a dick, but seriously? an 8-track? ignoring anything else, how many tracks do YOU hear when listening to that album? Carrey's drum kit alone is more than 8 tracks.

[HalfASandwidch]

Forget AEnima.

I'd be really disapointed if they didn't have 1 song with the calibur, epicness, and lyrical integrity to that of The Gaping Lotus Experience.

[HalfASandwidch]

Best TOOL SONG ever = Third eye
I'm gunna have to agree with you on that. No other tool song comes close to how awesome i think Third Eye is.

my top 10:
Third Eye
Triad
AEnema <- raw
Schism
Eulogy <- raw
Lateralus
The Grudge
Prison Sex <- ?...
Parabola
Part Of Me <- the relationship between me and my drugs.

I'd like to hear some more of that jungian theory stuff put into play on the new album.

[SpareForTheWarFishers]

Aenima has stronger individual tracks, but due to poor mixing/producing (which some people I hear actually like), and a little lack of focus, it comes off as a weaker record to me. I still love the main tracks (Stinkfist, H., 46&2, jimmy, Pushit, Aenema and Third Eye are standouts, of course) but Lateralus just has a phenomnal build and flow to it.

not to mention that, to me, that ending to Lateralus is one of the most moving, beautiful pieces of music ever composed. And then it's followed up by Disposition, which is such a great juxtaposition to Lateralus (the song).

Well stated, I completly agree.

[chonus]

Speaking of AEnima, anyone seen The Nightmare Before Christmas?

*see AEnima thread*

[exojjl]

dude, not trying to be a dick, but seriously? an 8-track? ignoring anything else, how many tracks do YOU hear when listening to that album? Carrey's drum kit alone is more than 8 tracks.
it at least sounds analog recorded either way. Then again I havnt tried to decipher it.......most of the album listening I do is while playing most of the tracks from start to finish on guitar.

[exojjl]

Speaking of AEnima, anyone seen The Nightmare Before Christmas?

*see AEnima thread*
dood, is this a thread about syncing aenima and that movie? Have not read such thread but I have done this with some pretty cool results!!

[NoD]

I thought NBC sank with Lateralus?

[Casagrande]

Many people who rate Lateralus over Ænima critisize on the lesser mixing/production, lack of focus and especially lack of cohesion of Ænima. Usually they refer to the segues. I totally do not agree with the segue-haters. I think the segues are perfectly positioned and actually add to the tension of the album. They create some room for relief between the songs, a little time to recover from a climax and to build up the anticipation for the next.

Albums:
1. Ænima;
2. Undertow/Salival/Lateralus and
5. Opiate.

Songs:
1. Third Eye
2. Many contenders.

[Natalie Portman]

Third Eye>Lateralus>*

I did always love the little drum solo in the middle of 46 & 2 though. That song is the tits too. That part always gets stuck in my head.

[Clutch it like an AEnima]

I think 10,000 days has a good chance of being the best album. I mean it's been 5 damn years they've been working on it (yeah maynard was in apc and they toured till 02, but still). Not to mention Adam even says it's their best work. I know he wants to hype up his album, but I would think he sees each of his albums as his children and he wouldn't choose a favorite, but he's gone far enough to say 10k days > the others.

Plus, what's gotten me more interested is that one review where the guy said the first half of the album is straight up basic hard rock and the 2nd half is spiritual like lateralus. It'll be amazing if the album actually progresses from undertowish songs to aenima type songs to a lateralus vibe all in the span of 1 album. I wouldn't think it could be done, but I don't think it's wise to underestimate tool....
I agree 100%

if 10,000 is better the Lateralus, i wonder what the album after 10,000 days will sound like? WHEN WILL IT END!!!!

[Lost Keys]

poor sound quality does not equal hard



rut row raggy

[Ecstasy]

what a band like tool an do in two years under a meshuggah craze is mind-blowing to even think about.

[Xanatos]

I apologize about the way my post sounded. It was late and I was already pissed off about something else (not related to TDN) and I came on here and took it out on you guys.

While that apology covers myself for the fact that I acted like an asshole, it does not take away the fact that AEnima is still, in my humber opinion, the best Tool album. I just don't see how anyone could say that Lateralus has better flow to it (unless you are skipping Ticks and Leeches with the pointless 3min. silence in the middle of it).

Moral: They tried too hard on Lateralus to be an epic 8min+ band, and while they can and do pull that off nicely on songs like Third Eye, Pushit, Eulogy, and Reflection, they failed in one way or another with almost all the other songs on Lateralus. The Grudge is a perfect example. While I absolutley love the final 40 seconds to 1min, it takes too long to get to that point and they don't put enough into that song to make it work. Shortening the length of The Grudge by about 3 min. would make it wonderful though. The Patient, I really really want to like this song. I really do. And this song has my attention straight through; then it fizzles out at then end and doesn't sound like they resolved it like they were building up to do. Parabol/a tries to capture some of the anger, without being an angry song, and once again, they drag this one out by about 1-2min too long. Ticks and leeches, pointless 3min silence, and maynard really shouldn't be screaming. It can't be good for his health. Lateralus was actually one of the better songs. It was not amazing, but it was good. Triad is one of the better instrumentals I have heard recently as well.

So there you have it. Once again I apologize about my earlier post.

Xanatos

[stinkfish]

lateralus is a fucking awesome album

aenima is better

end of discussion. next topic.

[chalimar]

I apologize about the way my post sounded. It was late and I was already pissed off about something else (not related to TDN) and I came on here and took it out on you guys.

While that apology covers myself for the fact that I acted like an asshole, it does not take away the fact that AEnima is still, in my humber opinion, the best Tool album. I just don't see how anyone could say that Lateralus has better flow to it (unless you are skipping Ticks and Leeches with the pointless 3min. silence in the middle of it).

Moral: They tried too hard on Lateralus to be an epic 8min+ band, and while they can and do pull that off nicely on songs like Third Eye, Pushit, Eulogy, and Reflection, they failed in one way or another with almost all the other songs on Lateralus. The Grudge is a perfect example. While I absolutley love the final 40 seconds to 1min, it takes too long to get to that point and they don't put enough into that song to make it work. Shortening the length of The Grudge by about 3 min. would make it wonderful though. The Patient, I really really want to like this song. I really do. And this song has my attention straight through; then it fizzles out at then end and doesn't sound like they resolved it like they were building up to do. Parabol/a tries to capture some of the anger, without being an angry song, and once again, they drag this one out by about 1-2min too long. Ticks and leeches, pointless 3min silence, and maynard really shouldn't be screaming. It can't be good for his health. Lateralus was actually one of the better songs. It was not amazing, but it was good. Triad is one of the better instrumentals I have heard recently as well.

So there you have it. Once again I apologize about my earlier post.

Xanatos

Shortening The Grudge by 3 minutes would have crippled it IMO.
The Patient fizzling out: I think makes total sense. Please take a look at the lyrics.
Does Parabol/a try to be angry? Hmm.
Lateralus = One of the best Tool songs ever.
Ticks And Leeches: Yeah ok. Have to agree. ;)

[Cinnamon]

eulogy is shit. what a terrible song.

[Xanatos]

Shortening The Grudge by 3 minutes would have crippled it IMO.
The Patient fizzling out: I think makes total sense. Please take a look at the lyrics.
Does Parabol/a try to be angry? Hmm.
Lateralus = One of the best Tool songs ever.
Ticks And Leeches: Yeah ok. Have to agree. ;)

Not so much Parabol as Parabola. I guess it just sounds like it is meant to be, esp. when maynard yells Alive, I. I suppose all I am getting at with Parabola is that the music doesn't really fit the lyrics in my opinion. This may in fact be correlated with the fac that APC was taking Maynards time while the band was creating new songs and he had to fit his lyrics with their songs instead of blending them. 's all.

I won't argue the Lateralus song because I do in fact like it.

[dischordance]

pointless 3min silenceAre you fucking deaf or something? Really, I was with you up until this. I refuse to take a deaf man's opinion on music seriously.

My opinion: Lateralus is a solid album and I like almost every song on it, except Ticks and Leeches which I loathe (APART FROM the "three minutes of silence" our handicapped friend referred to). I agree The Grudge is longer than it needs to be, but the final forty seconds do nothing for me. The opening half, where the song keeps changing and changing is fucking brilliant (there's a great beat that comes in at some point), and I feel it loses it around somewhere near the middle.
In any case, while I like most of the song, the main riff (as in the one the song opens with) does absolutely nothing for me.

The Patient has an astonishing climax and the outro is brilliant. Is it just that Tool placed the climax at "Must Keep Reminding Myself" instead of right at the end like they usually do? That'd be predictable, wouldn't it?
In any case, the anticlimatic "I Still May" bit reminds me of the last few seconds of Pushit: Intentionally inconclusive, implying there's still more to be told.

But as much as I like Lateralus (Faaip De Oiad is probably my favourite Tool song), the best I can say about it is that it's a very good album. I don't consider it to be anywere near as good as Aenima is. Not even close.
Hey, if people prefer Lateralus, whatever. It's all subjective, right? But "poor production/mixing"? The fuck are you guys going on about? Aenima has a very specific sound and it wasn't some fuck-up or accident. Tool, like it or not, intentionally went for a muddy, hazy sound. You can tell me you don't like the production, that's fair enough, but to call it "poor" is piss-ignorant, because the production is perfect at what it's trying to do.

I know this guy who thinks My Bloody Valentine's Loveless is poorly produced too. Jesus Christ...
And it sure wasn't recorded on an eight-track, but so what if it was? I hate glossy, pristine production - it sucks this kind of music completely dry. Example: TImes of Grace, by Neurosis. That album should stomp all sorts of ass, but Steve Albini fucked it up royaly.
Speaking of, I definately don't think Undertow is "hard" at all. Did someone mention that Prison Sex and Sober were "hard" songs? Huh... Wow, okay... I think Prison Sex, Sober, and Undertow. are pretty much your standard alt-rock songs. Not even metal, really. Barely hard-rock.
Maybe Maynard's more aggressive delivery is what you people are mistaking for heaviness?

[Cinnamon]

i disagree.
every song on lateralus was excellent, most had multiple climaxes.
aenima had pushit, jimmy, third eye, aenema, and h.
the rest was decent.
eulogy sucks, hooker with a penis is okay.
lateralus is so much better.

[chalimar]

I LOVE Eulogy. When I first heard Aenima, the one song that I listened to over and over again was Eulogy :)

[Cinnamon]

me too, but later on, when i realized the intro was the only cool part, i didn't like it anymore.

[Exoskeletal]

I like Lateralus over AEnima because it's TOOL's most progressive album, structurally genious with an awsome production quality. Altough AEnima has really brutal songs like Pushit, Eulogy, H. and Forty Six & 2... Lateralus in its whole it's better. But all of this is very subjective. It's only my personal opinion.

[pki2003]

Ok, I probly should have just replied to Xantos but I'm not filling up my post with that diatribe. I'm not trying to flame anyone for their critic of an album but it is at least worth mentioning how the album's themselves translate to the "live" art preformance. As someone that has been to over 11 tool concerts dating back to Lalapalooza 90-something (Undertow release I believe, don't quite remember the year I've smoked a lot of weed during/sense then) the live preformance of the band, I feel, must be taken into consideration when discussing any particular album. Just see Tool live, like most if not all of you have, and you should understand how Tool has gone beyond the CD/DVD medium and brought "album art" to an entire new level.

During the undertow days Tool was basically just like any other rock band you could see the potential but many have had potential and failed to capitalize on it. Fast forward through some expanding and learning phases you get to the Lateralus days. I think the true genius of Lateralus can only be realized when you look at how it translate to the onstage preformance. Yes, the album version of The Grudge might be long, or Ticks and Leeches somewhat inexplicable but I think this is because the band was limited by the CD medium. However, when you take those songs and place them in a live preformance they transcend the CD medium and blend together in a way that you truly must experience to understand and appreciate. As far as best CD your talking Aenima/Lateralus probly tied. But when your talking free form expression and transcending art your talking Lateralus by itself. Just my rant -- flame away.

[dracomordag]

I apologize about the way my post sounded. It was late and I was already pissed off about something else (not related to TDN) and I came on here and took it out on you guys.

While that apology covers myself for the fact that I acted like an asshole, it does not take away the fact that AEnima is still, in my humber opinion, the best Tool album. I just don't see how anyone could say that Lateralus has better flow to it (unless you are skipping Ticks and Leeches with the pointless 3min. silence in the middle of it).

Moral: They tried too hard on Lateralus to be an epic 8min+ band, and while they can and do pull that off nicely on songs like Third Eye, Pushit, Eulogy, and Reflection, they failed in one way or another with almost all the other songs on Lateralus. The Grudge is a perfect example. While I absolutley love the final 40 seconds to 1min, it takes too long to get to that point and they don't put enough into that song to make it work. Shortening the length of The Grudge by about 3 min. would make it wonderful though. The Patient, I really really want to like this song. I really do. And this song has my attention straight through; then it fizzles out at then end and doesn't sound like they resolved it like they were building up to do. Parabol/a tries to capture some of the anger, without being an angry song, and once again, they drag this one out by about 1-2min too long. Ticks and leeches, pointless 3min silence, and maynard really shouldn't be screaming. It can't be good for his health. Lateralus was actually one of the better songs. It was not amazing, but it was good. Triad is one of the better instrumentals I have heard recently as well.

So there you have it. Once again I apologize about my earlier post.

Xanatos


See, I think it's those "silences" that make Lateralus. If you just have straight hard rock going throughout an album, it's pretty boring. You have to change it up, throw in those beautiful mellow sections to give the harder parts their due sense of grandeur.

Tool is by far the heaviest band I listen to (dream theater comes close, but they have more than enough mellow songs to balance that out), so I understand that a more hard rock centered fan might think that, but that's why we have tastes and opinions.

[dracomordag]

Hey, if people prefer Lateralus, whatever. It's all subjective, right? But "poor production/mixing"? The fuck are you guys going on about? Aenima has a very specific sound and it wasn't some fuck-up or accident. Tool, like it or not, intentionally went for a muddy, hazy sound. You can tell me you don't like the production, that's fair enough, but to call it "poor" is piss-ignorant, because the production is perfect at what it's trying to do.

I recognize that that's what they were trying to do with it, but it doesn't change the fact that it doesn't work for me. I'm all into color with the music I make and the music I produce, but I generally am not into the muddy sound.

as I just said in the previous post, that's why things are called opinions

[Xanatos]

Are you fucking deaf or something?

I am, in fact, not deaf. I went back and listened to that song again and you would be politically correct. The middle portion of T&L is not silent, is just has adam playing his guitar softly in the backgroun, and nearer the end danny drumming and maynard humming. Still pointless and, compared to the rest of T&L, out of place.

[pki2003]

I am, in fact, not deaf. I went back and listened to that song again and you would be politically correct. The middle portion of T&L is not silent, is just has adam playing his guitar softly in the backgroun, and nearer the end danny drumming and maynard humming. Still pointless and, compared to the rest of T&L, out of place.

Have you seen any of the live shows that went with Lateralus? It's truly not out of place.

[Xanatos]

During the undertow days Tool was basically just like any other rock band you could see the potential but many have had potential and failed to capitalize on it. Fast forward through some expanding and learning phases you get to the Lateralus days. I think the true genius of Lateralus can only be realized when you look at how it translate to the onstage preformance. Yes, the album version of The Grudge might be long, or Ticks and Leeches somewhat inexplicable but I think this is because the band was limited by the CD medium. However, when you take those songs and place them in a live preformance they transcend the CD medium and blend together in a way that you truly must experience to understand and appreciate. As far as best CD your talking Aenima/Lateralus probly tied. But when your talking free form expression and transcending art your talking Lateralus by itself. Just my rant -- flame away.

I like this post. I have yet to see Tool live, but I plan on going to at least one of their shows this time around. :)

heh.. My diatribes. I kind of like that. Mine.

[pki2003]

Yeah, it is all yours. Merely a suggestion though do not fully pass judgement until you see how they incorporate what is/is not on the album until you have had the life altering experience of seeing them live and in person. Drugs optional

[TheHolyGift]

I never understood people who dont like Ticks and Leeches, especially the quiet part.

[chonus]

I never understood people who dont like Ticks and Leeches, especially the quiet part.

I don't get it either.

[chonus]

I thought NBC sank with Lateralus?


I heard that, but AEnima definately syncs. Start AEnima aprox.9.5 sec. after NBC.

[SpareForTheWarFishers]

I wonder what songs they are gonna keep for thier live performances, and which ones they will scrap to replace with new songs.

[HalfASandwidch]

I LOVE Eulogy. When I first heard Aenima, the one song that I listened to over and over again was Eulogy :)
AEnema was the first album i heard from tool, and Eulogy was the last song i actually fully listened to. But god damn once i got past that first part i played that shit over and over and over.

[Clutch it like an AEnima]

AEnema was the first album i heard from tool, and Eulogy was the last song i actually fully listened to. But god damn once i got past that first part i played that shit over and over and over.

LOL same here, i must have passed over eulgy like 20 times before i actually sat down and listened to it, now im glad i did... its one of there best

[tentonmantra]

eulogy is awesome...

i only skip the "non-music" tracks... Ænima is fantastic.
what a leap from undertow... justin chancelor maybe?
i´ve read that he contributes A LOT with riffs...

[NoD]

does anyone know the exact tracks paul did and justin did on aenima?

[dracomordag]

does anyone know the exact tracks paul did and justin did on aenima?

justin recorded all of them

Paul wrote "Pushit," "Stinkfist," "Eulogy," and "Ænema." with them, although JC undoubtably made a few changes

[EulogyCallinMe]

The Grudge is not heavy. The Grudge has a few moments when it gets interesting but for the most part, no, just no. The only amazing song on Lateralus was Schism. Everything else was either "meh" or terrible. Lateralus was, by far, the weakest record by Tool.

Aenima is, in my humble opinion, the best record from Tool; closely followed by Undertow.

In regard to "heaviness" of Aenima and Undertow, Undertow has more of a straightforward, "Rock" feel, but it isn't just straightforward "Rock". I have yet come up with a word to fully describe Undertow. Aenima on the other hand, has songs that bite. And once they bite, they don't let go or let you down. AEnima had just the right amount of comical relief, absurdity, and anger to make it a classic. Anyone who thinks that Aenima was topped by Lateralus is wrong.

Have a nice day.

yeah thanks for your opinion, but i think yours is wrong.

[KJM]

I don't get it either.


It's beyond boring and uninspired. I think that's it at least.

[KJM]

justin recorded all of them

Paul wrote "Pushit," "Stinkfist," "Eulogy," and "Ænema." with them, although JC undoubtably made a few changes


There are the aenima demos with paul you can always check out. I never bothered downloading them..cause..I just don't care.

[cadav]

Suprised no one has mentioned the band-talked-up Meshuggah influence. Not my favourite band because of the bizarre throaty metal style vocals, but the guitar and drum timings they use really do create the most original groooves on the planet.

Anyway, we all have our favourite albums, and our favourite tool songs, and it's likely it will sound like nothing before. Who could have predicted those lateralus songs from Undertow and Aenima.

Still, an album full of third-eye's (With a bit of jimmy/H/Undertow(the song)/Meshuggah thrown in) and I will be varnishing that CD case :P

[Xanatos]

cadav is the first noob I actually like. Let's be friends? K?

[chonus]

It's beyond boring and uninspired. I think that's it at least.


...from the one who knows better than tool.

[KJM]

certainly

[neurosis79]

Sober, prision sex, bottom, crawl away, undertow, and flood would all be considered harder than many of the songs on anemia and lateralus. Tools anger has become less with each album, and I think they are taking some of that back from previous albums on this one. Just a guess since none of us have actually heard it.

Sober??? Prison sex?? what are u? High??
I hace to agree with those who say Undertow isnt the hardest, cause it is really not. Aenima has way more powerful songs. Almost every song on that record has a part that is raging. And his voice is far more powerful so I cant see how you got this. And by the way. Opiate is probably harder too.

[mike09]

MAN DANGLE LOVERRRR

MAN DANGLE LOOVVVVERRRRRR

80s Maynard > all other Maynards

[mike09]

I apologize about the way my post sounded. It was late and I was already pissed off about something else (not related to TDN) and I came on here and took it out on you guys.

While that apology covers myself for the fact that I acted like an asshole, it does not take away the fact that AEnima is still, in my humber opinion, the best Tool album. I just don't see how anyone could say that Lateralus has better flow to it (unless you are skipping Ticks and Leeches with the pointless 3min. silence in the middle of it).

Moral: They tried too hard on Lateralus to be an epic 8min+ band, and while they can and do pull that off nicely on songs like Third Eye, Pushit, Eulogy, and Reflection, they failed in one way or another with almost all the other songs on Lateralus. The Grudge is a perfect example. While I absolutley love the final 40 seconds to 1min, it takes too long to get to that point and they don't put enough into that song to make it work. Shortening the length of The Grudge by about 3 min. would make it wonderful though. The Patient, I really really want to like this song. I really do. And this song has my attention straight through; then it fizzles out at then end and doesn't sound like they resolved it like they were building up to do. Parabol/a tries to capture some of the anger, without being an angry song, and once again, they drag this one out by about 1-2min too long. Ticks and leeches, pointless 3min silence, and maynard really shouldn't be screaming. It can't be good for his health. Lateralus was actually one of the better songs. It was not amazing, but it was good. Triad is one of the better instrumentals I have heard recently as well.

So there you have it. Once again I apologize about my earlier post.

Xanatos

I think I disagree with everything you said in this post. Third Eye, Eulogy, and Pushit are Tool's 3 most excessive songs. The reason I like Lateralus better is because the song writing fits my tastes better, of having tighter structured songs. Eulogy just keeps going on and on without any real sense of structure. They showed their growth as song writers with songs like The Patient, Lateralus, and Parabol/Parabola. Everything actually has a point in Lateralus' songs. I can't say the same for Aenima's songs. While I think Stinkfist, Aenema, and 46&2 are excellent songs, the rest of the songs either drag on or are too mediocre to begin with, in my opinion.

[B C L]

How could some of you seriously think Undertow is better or harder than Aenima? Don't get me wrong, Undertow is probably one of my top 25 albums of all time but Aenima (following closely by NIN's "The Fragile") is my all-time favorite.

I haven't read one message yet mentioned Eulogy as a hard song. Eulogy is probably my all-time favorite Tool song (maybe of any artist) and this song has moments where the brutality far outweighs anything on Undertow. Others like Stinkfist, 46 & 2, Hooker with a Penis, Jimmy, and Aenima are all extremely heavy songs. And the two epics Pushit and Third Eye have parts that are very hard - The climatic end to Third Eye is probably the most intense moment on any Tool song (right up there when Maynard sings "Get off your f'ing cross - we need the f'ing space to nail the next fool matryr!" on Eulogy). And even the lightest song, "H" has it's heavier moments. I just can't see an argument for the collection of songs on Undertow being heavier (or better) than those of Aenima.

[Animus X torsi]

My Shadow... now is my time... that sums everything he says ^^^^^^

[stinkfish]

disposition, reflection and triad are analshit in my opinion, which makes the album drop a lot. if those songs doesnt make me fall asleep it annoys the shit out of me with its constant repetitiveness. repeating the same shit over and over again for 10min is not epic, it's something you do to piss someone off. the drums in reflection, especially in the begining makes me want to bang my head against the wall.

exluding those and eonblueapocalypse, mantra and faaip de oaid, the rest are all good songs. including ticks and leeches and the grudge.

all real songs on aenima are awesome. some better than others. including eulogy which is one of my favourite songs and hooker with a penis.

[Animus X torsi]

46&2 could have been an album on its own in my opinion, with 12 other filler songs, and i would have liked it

[Xanatos]

46 & 2 is amazing, but I would take H. over it anyday. "I don't mind!" gets me everytime.

Who else here loves to listen to Ions with headphones on?

[a788]

ohhh me! i lovee to hear ions with headphones

[Animus X torsi]

when you have headphones on in the beginning of lateralus, whats that weird backroud noise?

[a788]

i think you're hearing things

[trentazer]

As odd as it sounds, my ears feel shocked whenever I listen to (-) ions with headphones

[Eon Black Apocalypse]

when you have headphones on in the beginning of lateralus, whats that weird backroud noise?

I kinda hear a fuzz, that transitions into the guitar part.

[varg]

and i hope there's no resemblance to any of their previous albums.


"Yo pretty ladies around the world
Got a weird thing to show you
So tell all the boys and girls
Tell your brother, your sister and your mamma too
We're about to go down
And you know just what to do
Wave your hands in the air like you don't care
Gilde by the people as they start to look and stare
Do your dance, do your dance, do your dance quick mamma
Come on baby tell me what's the word

Word up everybody say
When you hear the call you've got to get it underway
Word up it's the code word
No matter where you say it you know that you'll be heard

Now all you sucker DJ's who think you're fly
There's got to be a reason and we know the reason why
You try to put on those airs and you act real cool
But you got to realise that you're acting like fools
If there's music we can use it
Be free to dance
We don't have the time for psychological romance
No romance, no romance, no romance for me mamma
Come on baby tell me what's the word

Word up everybody say
When you hear the call you've got to get it underway
Word up it's the code word
No matter where you say it you know that you'll be heard

Word up everybody say
When you hear the call you've got to get it underway
Word up it's the code word
No matter where you say it you know that you'll be heard

Word up everybody say
When you hear the call you've got to get it underway
Word up it's the code word
No matter where you say it you know that you'll be heard"

[Octopod]

disposition, reflection and triad are analshit in my opinion, which makes the album drop a lot. if those songs doesnt make me fall asleep it annoys the shit out of me with its constant repetitiveness. repeating the same shit over and over again for 10min is not epic, it's something you do to piss someone off. the drums in reflection, especially in the begining makes me want to bang my head against the wall.

Sorry you feel that way. I couldn't disagree more.

I like the drums on Reflection as much as those on the Grudge, personally. His progression towards the song's climax is breath taking. I never get tired of Reflection.

[chalimar]

"Yo pretty ladies around the world
Got a weird thing to show you
So tell all the boys and girls
Tell your brother, your sister and your mamma too
We're about to go down
And you know just what to do
Wave your hands in the air like you don't care
Gilde by the people as they start to look and stare
Do your dance, do your dance, do your dance quick mamma
Come on baby tell me what's the word

Word up everybody say
When you hear the call you've got to get it underway
Word up it's the code word
No matter where you say it you know that you'll be heard

Now all you sucker DJ's who think you're fly
There's got to be a reason and we know the reason why
You try to put on those airs and you act real cool
But you got to realise that you're acting like fools
If there's music we can use it
Be free to dance
We don't have the time for psychological romance
No romance, no romance, no romance for me mamma
Come on baby tell me what's the word

Word up everybody say
When you hear the call you've got to get it underway
Word up it's the code word
No matter where you say it you know that you'll be heard

Word up everybody say
When you hear the call you've got to get it underway
Word up it's the code word
No matter where you say it you know that you'll be heard

Word up everybody say
When you hear the call you've got to get it underway
Word up it's the code word
No matter where you say it you know that you'll be heard"

uh? wtf?

[varg]

I agree. Word up. I was trying to be funny. Sorry. It will NEVER EVER happen again.

[Zim-Zum]

"Yo pretty ladies around the world
Got a weird thing to show you
So tell all the boys and girls
Tell your brother, your sister and your mamma too
We're about to go down
And you know just what to do
Wave your hands in the air like you don't care
Gilde by the people as they start to look and stare
Do your dance, do your dance, do your dance quick mamma
Come on baby tell me what's the word

Word up everybody say
When you hear the call you've got to get it underway
Word up it's the code word
No matter where you say it you know that you'll be heard

Now all you sucker DJ's who think you're fly
There's got to be a reason and we know the reason why
You try to put on those airs and you act real cool
But you got to realise that you're acting like fools
If there's music we can use it
Be free to dance
We don't have the time for psychological romance
No romance, no romance, no romance for me mamma
Come on baby tell me what's the word

Word up everybody say
When you hear the call you've got to get it underway
Word up it's the code word
No matter where you say it you know that you'll be heard

Word up everybody say
When you hear the call you've got to get it underway
Word up it's the code word
No matter where you say it you know that you'll be heard

Word up everybody say
When you hear the call you've got to get it underway
Word up it's the code word
No matter where you say it you know that you'll be heard"
Euh?! it's a cameo song.²

[chalimar]

I agree. Word up. I was trying to be funny. Sorry. It will NEVER EVER happen again.

ok. i didn't know what those lyrics were supposed to be at all.

[stinkfish]

Sorry you feel that way. I couldn't disagree more.

I like the drums on Reflection as much as those on the Grudge, personally. His progression towards the song's climax is breath taking. I never get tired of Reflection.

I'm sorry aswell. I tried, I really did, but I can't stop getting frustrated while listening to those.

[TenSpeed]

when you have headphones on in the beginning of lateralus, whats that weird backroud noise?
It sounds like a dentist's drill to me, but with or without headphones. I even hear it on the vinyl.

[Leandrenos]

isnt that when they shoot water up your butt or something?

Ane enema is when they shoot water up your but so a A-enema Anti- enema would be........

[chalimar]

Flushing it all away.

[STA]

It sounds like a dentist's drill to me, but with or without headphones. I even hear it on the vinyl.

I've always thought it was the sound of whatever machine is "broadcasting" the "transmission" that is the album starting up; the same machine that cuts out at the end of Faaip de Oiad.

[Animus X torsi]

wow thats good, iv neber thought of that

[orange.juice]

I've always thought it was the sound of whatever machine is "broadcasting" the "transmission" that is the album starting up; the same machine that cuts out at the end of Faaip de Oiad.
.

My little brother has a dv camera which makes a quite similar sound when switched on. Add some reverb and you have it right there.

[mon-go-lloyd]

when you have headphones on in the beginning of lateralus, whats that weird backroud noise?

if you mean at the beginning of the album, I think it's an air-conditioner, or similar. a studio that I used to record in a couple of years ago had an air-conditioner that sounded exactly the same.
also, check out fireball by deep purple. that album have a similar sound on the opening song.

[snakeeyedhawk]

Nobody ever thought that maybe by 'more agressive' sound they meant moreso the Opiate EP rather than Undertow...?

[a788]

yeah, that crossed my mind, but i was kind of hoping other wise, opiate was the album i liked the least

lateralus>aenima>undertow>opiate .... never heard salival, im broke

[orange.juice]

it's not worth the money.

[Octopod]

if you mean at the beginning of the album, I think it's an air-conditioner, or similar.

Or it could be a circular table saw, as in the eye-saw-blade design on the cd and all over the vinyl art work.

I think they are inferring that the way you make a "lateral us" is by cutting yourself in half, hence the scene where Tricky uses the razor blade to cut our little mask-popping friend in half after he's crushed by the floating shadow entity in the Parabola video.

[KJM]

who cares what it is, it's lame and you can find it in most big sfx packages.

[Octopod]

sfx?

[RacecaR123]

I would have to say Tool have evolved a bit further every record. My top 10 fsavourite songs would be as follows:

1. Lateralus
2. Stinkfist
3. Third Eye
4. The Grudge
5. The Patient
6. Eulogy
7. Pushit
8. Disposition
9. 46&2
10. Aenima

[mike09]

disposition, reflection and triad are analshit in my opinion, which makes the album drop a lot. if those songs doesnt make me fall asleep it annoys the shit out of me with its constant repetitiveness. repeating the same shit over and over again for 10min is not epic, it's something you do to piss someone off. the drums in reflection, especially in the begining makes me want to bang my head against the wall.

How is Disposition repetitive? Have you ever actually listened to what all the instruments are playing?

[dracomordag]

How is Disposition repetitive? Have you ever actually listened to what all the instruments are playing?

obviously not

[KJM]

Wrong song

[Xanatos]

it is. you can't change some little thing every few minutes and say "WE'RE NOT DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER".

Quoted for truth.

[KJM]

I was thinking reflection, I don't remember what disposition really sounds like. I didn't listen to it much.

[Octopod]

Whatever. If you don't have the attention span to appreciate those subtleties, that's fine. But don't dismiss the instrumental portions of songs as mere "intros". The piece doesn't begin when Keenan starts singing. I think the band let that idea go a few albums ago.

[KJM]

yea that's it, anyone who doesn't like it "doesn't get it", or how about "they're stupid"

"they just don't have an attention span"

If you don't like emo you're just not in touch with your emotions. YAH GOT ME.

[Octopod]

It's not about exclusivity, friend. If you dis a band on one of their forums, you should expect static. That's it.

Given the "who cares what it means" attitude I've seen from you on other threads, I'm not surprised in the least that you don't appreciate Reflection.

[KJM]

That was a nice grouping of words that said absolutley nothing other than

"I'm a fanboy, don't say anything bad about tool"

just to add, I never get over the fact that everyone who listens to tool praises the "think for yourself" mantra, yet the moment someone disagrees and has a thoughts of their own it's "GOD YOU'RE SO DUMB"

[Octopod]

While yours are a fantastic collection of beautifully phrased ruminations which say:

"I'm a bad ass with no real point."

[KJM]

The point was, you're being a dick to people who believe other than you because you're obsessed with a band.

Thank you for the "bad ass" part though.

[Octopod]

And I meant it. I can't even read your posts without thinking the words "bad ass".

I'm a little surprised that you want to define me as the "dick", tho, with some of the imagination-snuffing negativity I've seen from your posts. And if you want to call me obsessed for attending a Tool board and saying that I appreciate all of their music, then I would take a look in the mirror. You actually come here every day, too.

[KJM]

yea, but that doesn't make me obsessed. it makes me bored. and most of my posts aren't actually serious. people can take them that way, that's cool. they're not. The majority of my posts have been relatively recent considering when I joined.

unless you're posting some terrible theory behind track titles and insisting they're true. that's annoying. going through multiple tool releases gets old. people freak out. I just want info. not a bunch of nonsense.

that was disjointed.

[Xanatos]

I find it amusing how people that signed up to this board within the past month or two feel like they have authority over people like KJM, who has been here since 2002.

The thing that caught my attention the most was

“It's not about exclusivity, friend. If you dis a band on one of their forums, you should expect static. That's it.

Given the "who cares what it means" attitude I've seen from you on other threads, I'm not surprised in the least that you don't appreciate Reflection.”

Great, you don’t agree with a guy. Go back, listen to the song again with an open mind and try to find what he is talking about. Come back with a decent argument and post it.

Also, I don’t think he was surprised he got flak from people like you on the forums (there are a lot of Lateralus lovers on here if you haven’t noticed). I think it was of the way in which you said it.

“Whatever. If you don't have the attention span to appreciate those subtleties, that's fine. But don't dismiss the instrumental portions of songs as mere "intros". The piece doesn't begin when Keenan starts singing. I think the band let that idea go a few albums ago.”

There is nothing subtle about them. There is the same underlying rhythm throughout the whole first, say, 7 minutes 20 seconds of song until it gets to A.J.‘s solo. The drums stay almost exactly the same and the bass line rarely strays either. Maynard’s vocals are annoying at times. I find the lyrics to be rather pretentious as well. I find almost the whole Lateralus album to be pretentious actually. In fact, I will go so far as to say this, Lateralus is one of the most pretentious CDs I know of.

After you have looked up the word pretentious, feel free to flame me.

[Sleep]

Or you could just use the word pretentious a few more times.

[Xanatos]

It is a fun word. :)

[champion]

It's hard to believe someone doesn't like the song Lateralus, but I heard you out as much as I would anybody else.

There's the same underlying rhythm because it's the rhythm they use to build the song. It doesn't mean the way they use the rhythm throughout the different instruments and the way they layer other rhythms onto it is non-existent. A lot of songs have the same fundamental drive; that's why they're songs. It's where you go with the idea that makes for a successful song.

Pretentiousness to me doesn't really exist. It's just a term people use to justify their own opinions. Tool does not demand distinction. People give them the distinction. They are a very unusual band, and a very good one, in my opinion, and that's where the distinction comes from. Tool has become popular, and when Maynard writes lyrics, he probably takes into consideration that millions and millions of people are going to be reading them. But Tool's just trying to express themselves. Their lyrics aren't difficult to understand, and the band has said on countless occasions that they want people to interpret the lyrics for themselves anyway. Nothing wrong with that.

[Xanatos]

It's hard to believe someone doesn't like the song Lateralus, but I heard you out as much as I would anybody else.

There's the same underlying rhythm because it's the rhythm they use to build the song. It doesn't mean the way they use the rhythm throughout the different instruments and the way they layer other rhythms onto it is non-existent. A lot of songs have the same fundamental drive; that's why they're songs. It's where you go with the idea that makes for a successful song.

Pretentiousness to me doesn't really exist. It's just a term people use to justify their own opinions. Tool does not demand distinction. People give them the distinction. They are a very unusual band, and a very good one, in my opinion, and that's where the distinction comes from. Tool has become popular, and when Maynard writes lyrics, he probably takes into consideration that millions and millions of people are going to be reading them. But Tool's just trying to express themselves. Their lyrics aren't difficult to understand, and the band has said on countless occasions that they want people to interpret the lyrics for themselves anyway. Nothing wrong with that.

Well put. Though it doesn't exactly change my idea of Lateralus (the CD), I agree with just about everything said here.

Respect +10

P.S. Pretentious is still a fun word

[ARMZ]

Fuck, must.....restrain......from.....releasing......FEE Lings....nOOOOO

Ænima to me(note the to me bit) is better than Lateralus. As others have said it has that muddy sound. I use to love Lateralus, I use to think it was better than Ænima but now it doesn't even come close in my eyes....ears. I still like Lateralus, I haven't thrown it away, god no.

Ænima to me just sounds better, nothing to do with the production, I mean Lateralus wins hands down on that but I just don't feel it anymore. I love Ænima because Maynard sings, yea sure he sings on Lateralus but I mean he really sings on Ænima. You've got the mmm's and yeahhhs through out the songs and it's not over done, there's more passion in his voice, more conviction and more soul.

On lateralus there is none of that, sure it makes Lateralus different, completely different but again it just doesn't make me tear up or whatever. The only song where MJK gets or sounds emotional is on Lateralus "to still be a human" and in Disposition towards the end, sounds like he's almost crying.

Another thing that Lateralus doesn't have is Adam's guitar solos, solos? his bit, his part, the only one I can think of right at this moment is in Reflection, just past half way through when he builds it up, which I love by the way, I do still love Lateralus but it lacks those things. Take Eulogy and H, they've got those explosive endings where Adam just rips it up....Push It, Adam has a long part in there and I love that shit, again Lateralus doesn't have any of that, well not to the extent of Ænima anyway.

Also when he makes his guitar screech on some songs, that is fucking awesome, again there's none of that on Lateralus. It's so clean it's soulless. Ticks and Leeches, yea great drumming and some nice guitar work but that silence kills it, although there is some background muttering noises but it only makes it good if you've got headphones, can you imagine if 46&2, where Adam and Danny rip it up, was silent? Jesus, I think they got lazy on that one.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Tool or their work, I mean they work fucking hard to create their shit, just like anyone else. Anyway I better stop there, fuck I haven't made a long arse post for ages, shit! I better talk about 10,000 Days or this will get deleted.....just quickly then, Blair said the album will still have those sonically charged drums or what ever he said so that's for the Lat fans. Andy King said there was Hendrix like Guitar work so that's for the Æ fans, I think we all might find some common ground on this album.

[Octopod]

I find it amusing how people that signed up to this board within the past month or two feel like they have authority over people like KJM, who has been here since 2002.

Whatever. If I have any "authority" over KJM, it's news to me. Do I have to be here for a certain period of time before I call him or anyone on their nonsense? If so, then when is that? Your point is absurd.

Also, I don’t think he was surprised he got flak from people like you on the forums (there are a lot of Lateralus lovers on here if you haven’t noticed). I think it was of the way in which you said it.

What, with an actual point? Would you prefer I refute his opinion with a "fuck you" or "you're so pathetic" like some of the posters around here? Is THAT what I did wrong? Well, all I can say is too bad. I'm not going to follow suit if I disagree, or wait around until you think it's okay for me to exercise "authority" over someone like KJM who seems perfectly capable of looking after himself.


There is nothing subtle about them. There is the same underlying rhythm throughout the whole first, say, 7 minutes 20 seconds of song until it gets to A.J.‘s solo.

He changes the expression at the end of the drum riff at least four times and hits a crash or china immediately after the guitar comes in before the song is even a minute old. Before we even hit the 1:36 mark, he's hit 4 different sounding symbols in differing patterns at the end of the same rhythmic expression. I'm not up on drumming terminology, so sorry if that's an inadequate description for all you drummers out there, but my point is that the changes are there, just not as dramatic in nature for some people (obviously). But don't tell me that there is no subtlety there. You're just not listening for it.

I find the lyrics to be rather pretentious as well. I find almost the whole Lateralus album to be pretentious actually. In fact, I will go so far as to say this, Lateralus is one of the most pretentious CDs I know of.

Really? How come?

After you have looked up the word pretentious, feel free to flame me.

American Heritage College Dictionary:

1. "Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, esp. when unjustified."
2. "Outwardly extravagant; ostentatious."

Well, you couldn't mean number one, unless you want to argue that Tool don't demand their share of distinction or merit when juxtaposed with the massive lesson in banality we call the popular music scene. So you must mean number two, which means that you consider the band to be a bunch of show-offs. But to really make that argument you're going to have to show me where the lyrics, bass lines, guitar work and drumming are pretentious and why, and I'll respond. But don't expect "flames". I wouldn't exactly describe my posts as insulting when compared to some of the stuff I've read around here.

[Casagrande]

Fuck, must.....restrain......from.....releasing......FEE Lings....nOOOOO

Ænima to me(note the to me bit) is better than Lateralus (...)
Well put. Ænima = Emotional, Lateralus -/- Reflection = Just not that same feeling...

[Xanatos]

Fuck, must.....restrain......from.....releasing......FEE Lings....nOOOOO

Ænima to me(note the to me bit) is better than Lateralus. As others have said it has that muddy sound. I use to love Lateralus, I use to think it was better than Ænima but now it doesn't even come close in my eyes....ears. I still like Lateralus, I haven't thrown it away, god no.

Ænima to me just sounds better, nothing to do with the production, I mean Lateralus wins hands down on that but I just don't feel it anymore. I love Ænima because Maynard sings, yea sure he sings on Lateralus but I mean he really sings on Ænima. You've got the mmm's and yeahhhs through out the songs and it's not over done, there's more passion in his voice, more conviction and more soul.

On lateralus there is none of that, sure it makes Lateralus different, completely different but again it just doesn't make me tear up or whatever. The only song where MJK gets or sounds emotional is on Lateralus "to still be a human" and in Disposition towards the end, sounds like he's almost crying.

Another thing that Lateralus doesn't have is Adam's guitar solos, solos? his bit, his part, the only one I can think of right at this moment is in Reflection, just past half way through when he builds it up, which I love by the way, I do still love Lateralus but it lacks those things. Take Eulogy and H, they've got those explosive endings where Adam just rips it up....Push It, Adam has a long part in there and I love that shit, again Lateralus doesn't have any of that, well not to the extent of Ænima anyway.

Also when he makes his guitar screech on some songs, that is fucking awesome, again there's none of that on Lateralus. It's so clean it's soulless. Ticks and Leeches, yea great drumming and some nice guitar work but that silence kills it, although there is some background muttering noises but it only makes it good if you've got headphones, can you imagine if 46&2, where Adam and Danny rip it up, was silent? Jesus, I think they got lazy on that one.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Tool or their work, I mean they work fucking hard to create their shit, just like anyone else. Anyway I better stop there, fuck I haven't made a long arse post for ages, shit! I better talk about 10,000 Days or this will get deleted.....just quickly then, Blair said the album will still have those sonically charged drums or what ever he said so that's for the Lat fans. Andy King said there was Hendrix like Guitar work so that's for the Æ fans, I think we all might find some common ground on this album.

I couldn't agree more. Good post.

[Xanatos]

“He changes the expression at the end of the drum riff at least four times and hits a crash or china immediately after the guitar comes in before the song is even a minute old. Before we even hit the 1:36 mark, he's hit 4 different sounding symbols in differing patterns at the end of the same rhythmic expression.”

Indeed he does. That does not, however, free him from being repetitive. I also believe this is what I posted:

Originally Posted by Xanatos
There is nothing subtle about them. There is the same underlying rhythm throughout the whole first, say, 7 minutes 20 seconds of song until it gets to A.J.‘s solo. The drums stay almost exactly the same...


Notice the bolded and highlighted ALMOST in there. Don’t get me wrong, I think Danny Carey is the best (if not pretty god damn close to the best) drummer currently in existence; that does not mean that I love everything he does. Reflection is one of his weakest points in my eyes.

“Whatever. If I have any "authority" over KJM, it's news to me. Do I have to be here for a certain period of time before I call him or anyone on their nonsense? If so, then when is that? Your point is absurd.”

No, you don’t have to be here for a certain period of time before you can call anyone on their “nonsense”. Perhaps I worded it wrong in the first post. What I meant to say was that “You are kind of new here to be throwing your weight around.”

“What, with an actual point? Would you prefer I refute his opinion with a "fuck you" or "you're so pathetic" like some of the posters around here? Is THAT what I did wrong? Well, all I can say is too bad. I'm not going to follow suit if I disagree, or wait around until you think it's okay for me to exercise "authority" over someone like KJM who seems perfectly capable of looking after himself.”

I have no doubts that KJM can look after himself, and no, I don’t want you to go around posting “your pathetic” or “fuck you”; however, in retrospect that is basically what you did.

“Whatever. If you don't have the attention span to appreciate those subtleties, that's fine.”

Maybe I am not interpreting it correctly, but that looks like a more intellectual way of saying “You’re pathetic.”

“Really? How come?”

The reason I find Reflection’s lyrics to be pretentious is this. The simple fact that I always find all the spiritual (enlightenment) mumbo-jumbo to be pretentious, regardless of whether it is Maynard singing it. The fact that it is Maynard at the wheels this time around made me interested to say the least, but, much like ARMZ brought out, there is a lack of emotion in Maynard’s voice (at least to me anyway) and that kind of killed the experience for me. If there is one thing I can’t stand more than people singing about spirituality (enlightenment), it is when they do it without conviction. That is the only thing Lateralus is missing in my eyes, conviction.

Also, I was using this definition. I am surprised that the dictionary you used didn’t have this one.

2. made to look or sound important: presenting itself unjustifiably as having a special quality or significance, and often seeming forced or overly clever
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.



Have a nice day.

[SaTaNs_LiTtLe_HeLpEr]

Lateralus:
Hard = the Grudge, Ticks & Leeches

Scratch out The Grudge and put Triad in its place... I mean come on... *de de d de de d de de*

[dracomordag]

I think that Lateralus and Ænima are just such different beasts that it's really hard to compare them. Personally, Lateralus is what does it for me, but I certainly love Ænima and respect peoples opinions on the two.

Basically, I listen to Ænima when I want to rock out, but listen to Lateralus when I feel like going on more epic journeys. Ænima packs one hell of a punch, but to me that punch isn't what makes or breaks a record, it's just one of its aspects.

I think that to call Lateralus pretentious and unemotional is a little... I don't want to say close-minded, but I think that it's not a very accurate description. I think the band put a hell of a lot of emotion and work into that album, and it really does speak to me on many vastly different levels. There is rarely a time when I listen to Lateralus and am not moved to tears by the sheer emotion of it. Same goes for The Patient and Parabola, but they're not quite as strong. When Maynard busts out "I must keep reminding myself of this" over top of the chorus, I think it's just a brilliant moment. Read the lyrics to Parabola: I think they show a very deep insight into the human situation, just as the rest of the album does (especially Lateralus).

I could write a very similar "review" of Ænima, but I think there's more than enough of that in this thread already. Plus, as I have said, Lateralus is a better record to me, so I have more conviction when talking about it.

[Xanatos]

I think that Lateralus and Ænima are just such different beasts that it's really hard to compare them. Personally, Lateralus is what does it for me, but I certainly love Ænima and respect peoples opinions on the two.

Basically, I listen to Ænima when I want to rock out, but listen to Lateralus when I feel like going on more epic journeys. Ænima packs one hell of a punch, but to me that punch isn't what makes or breaks a record, it's just one of its aspects.

I think that to call Lateralus pretentious and unemotional is a little... I don't want to say close-minded, but I think that it's not a very accurate description. I think the band put a hell of a lot of emotion and work into that album, and it really does speak to me on many vastly different levels. There is rarely a time when I listen to Lateralus and am not moved to tears by the sheer emotion of it. Same goes for The Patient and Parabola, but they're not quite as strong. When Maynard busts out "I must keep reminding myself of this" over top of the chorus, I think it's just a brilliant moment. Read the lyrics to Parabola: I think they show a very deep insight into the human situation, just as the rest of the album does (especially Lateralus).

I could write a very similar "review" of Ænima, but I think there's more than enough of that in this thread already. Plus, as I have said, Lateralus is a better record to me, so I have more conviction when talking about it.

Once again, another great post. Even though we do disagree on this issue I can see where you are coming from better now (though I do hope you don't actually cry during Lateralus [song])

Repect +10

[dracomordag]

Once again, another great post. Even though we do disagree on this issue I can see where you are coming from better now (though I do hope you don't actually cry during Lateralus [song])

Repect +10

I don't really cry, but I'm sure you've had that feeling where it "moved you to tears" as they say, and... I don't really know how to describe it. You probably know what I'm talking about.

[Xanatos]

I don't really cry, but I'm sure you've had that feeling where it "moved you to tears" as they say, and... I don't really know how to describe it. You probably know what I'm talking about.

I guessed that is what you meant by that phrase, and yes, I know what you are talking about. :)

[Loveboat Captain]

I love the drums in Reflection because they are repitive(and I love Dannys toms!). Repititive music is trance like, I think. It has a magical quality about it that suits the song perfectly. And I think drums have a particularly magical effect when used the way they're used in Reflection.

But I just felt like saying that. Stop arguing over music, its much like arguing over food.

[Octopod]

That does not, however, free him from being repetitive.

Using that logic, every song can be proven to be "repetitive". Whether you said "almost" or not doesn't change the fact that the changes are there. You just don't think they're good enough while I do. And that's fine. But saying there's no subtlety there is ridiculous, imo.

No, you don’t have to be here for a certain period of time before you can call anyone on their “nonsense”. Perhaps I worded it wrong in the first post. What I meant to say was that “You are kind of new here to be throwing your weight around.”

Which basically means the same thing: I need your approval to say what I think.

“Whatever. If you don't have the attention span to appreciate those subtleties, that's fine.”

Maybe I am not interpreting it correctly, but that looks like a more intellectual way of saying “You’re pathetic.”

Well, attention span has nothing to do with intelligence or qualification, which is why I said it was fine. The inferrence is really that Tool may not necessarily be the band he wants them to be. Maybe he prefers short, succinct expressions of power when it comes to music, and Tool's forays into longer, epic pieces simply do not suit the mental energy he wants to contribute to the experience. His reactions, then, become complaints against change because Tool used to fit the bill with previous albums basically filled with shorter songs. Complaining against change is one thing, but claiming there is no subtlety in some of the offerings from Lateralus insinuates that the band have eschewed intelligence and worth for pretense. That is what I have a problem with, because like Draco, I was immensely moved by the emotion, vulnerability and prowess displayed on Reflection. Musically I don't think it is weak in the least. I think Lateralus is just as emotionally charged as Ænima, just not as overt.

The reason I find Reflection’s lyrics to be pretentious is this. The simple fact that I always find all the spiritual (enlightenment) mumbo-jumbo to be pretentious, regardless of whether it is Maynard singing it. The fact that it is Maynard at the wheels this time around made me interested to say the least, but, much like ARMZ brought out, there is a lack of emotion in Maynard’s voice (at least to me anyway) and that kind of killed the experience for me. If there is one thing I can’t stand more than people singing about spirituality (enlightenment), it is when they do it without conviction. That is the only thing Lateralus is missing in my eyes, conviction.

Well, I'm a bit incredulous to be honest. I personally don't see where any of the anger and hatred expressed on Opiate and Undertow could have ended up instead of a spiritual reflection without turning into albums filled with self-parody. It is simply human nature to move on as you get older. You pass through the anger of your teens and twenties and you get angry about different things in different ways. I think Tool, as musicians, have stayed true to themselves as human beings. That they can do so and keep it relevant and true to their original vision is amzing and rare.

I don't see any lack of conviction in Keenan's vocals on Lateralus. He knows what he's fighting against, and he's working to heal himself... to become whole. If that's mumbo jumbo to you, maybe you're still busy being angry and holding your finger up to the world, which is fine. But your criticism of Keenan's performance lacks evidence, imo.

2. made to look or sound important: presenting itself unjustifiably as having a special quality or significance, and often seeming forced or overly clever


Tool's music is important. There is no adequate replacement for them, the questions they ask, the talent they display, or the artistic achievement they represent should they suddenly disappear from popular culture. They are special and significant. I'd like to hear some descriptions of how people think Lateralus is "forced", because if anything, it seems they showed an immense amount of restraint, which actually shows exactly what we should encounter from a band who were a decade old by then: Strength, control, progression, and maturity. And "overly clever"? Maybe on Ænima, but definitely not on Lateralus.

[Animus X torsi]

i agree with all your points except the last one, because you became inconstistent with the, well it may not feel the same for you as it does for me, then went straight into, this music is owrth worshiping to everyone. other than that, your points were good. thankks, its nice to hear people still loyal to tool.

[Loveboat Captain]

If it sounds like radiohead it probably is. Tool always have that Tool sound, no matter what they do.

[stinkfish]

How is Disposition repetitive? Have you ever actually listened to what all the instruments are playing?

tsss. so what if there are slight changes, it can still sound repetitive. it's a four minute song with the exact same rhythm and slight changes throughout it. even maynards voice keeps the same, dragged out, bored level during his part. It's repetitive - it's boring. Got no build up, no climax, I can barely tell the intro to the middle and the ending apart.

However Reflection is even worse in my opinion. 11 minutes of boredom. Triad is the better one of the three.

[Octopod]

i agree with all your points except the last one, because you became inconstistent with the, well it may not feel the same for you as it does for me, then went straight into, this music is owrth worshiping to everyone.

I see your point. I shouldn't insist on universal worth for any band.

[dracomordag]

tsss. so what if there are slight changes, it can still sound repetitive. it's a four minute song with the exact same rhythm and slight changes throughout it. even maynards voice keeps the same, dragged out, bored level during his part. It's repetitive - it's boring. Got no build up, no climax, I can barely tell the intro to the middle and the ending apart.

However Reflection is even worse in my opinion. 11 minutes of boredom. Triad is the better one of the three.

I actually am not the biggest fan of reflection...

but Disposition is phenomenal. Such a great piece, especially to put right after the climax of Lateralus (the song). To me, those intracate little subtleties and changes are what make the song so good... not everything climaxes in some big, huge finale. There's such a thing as restraint

[Xanatos]

Of all the songs on Lateralus, I actualy enjoy Disposition a lot.

[SaTaNs_LiTtLe_HeLpEr]

Is it just me or does Triad not get the attention it deserves?