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View Full Version : Tracklist NOT Copyrighted! Or so it seems.


Myriad: Days To Come
03-14-2006, 12:24 PM
Thought I would do some internal investigation of my own into the track list. So I visited the official government issued Copyright Search Engine.

www.copyright.gov

I decided to type in just a few of the track titles. Nothing! Well at least nothing copyrighted under the name of Tool, or any of their affiliations. Hell, not even a record label owns any of them.

Here is a quick link to the Copyright in Music Engine.

http://www.copyright.gov/records/cohm.html

If you can find one for yourself... please post. Otherwise it appears to be a false tracklist.

Bogart
03-14-2006, 12:25 PM
Track titles can't be copyrighted can they?

ARMZ
03-14-2006, 12:25 PM
You can't copyright titles.

Myriad: Days To Come
03-14-2006, 12:26 PM
Track titles can't be copyrighted can they?

Indeed. I would know. I am a writer.

maneva
03-14-2006, 12:26 PM
yeah, i don't think you can copyright track titles. maybe album titles though.

Myriad: Days To Come
03-14-2006, 12:27 PM
You can't copyright the names of track titles.... but if you would search for the title and any copyrights connected to it. It would show up.

Nebel
03-14-2006, 12:27 PM
yes album titles and it'll be copyrighted around the release

ButtholeJones2
03-14-2006, 12:27 PM
Thought I would do some internal investigation of my own into the track list. So I visited the official government issued Copyright Search Engine.

www.copyright.gov

I decided to type in just a few of the track titles. Nothing! Well at least nothing copyrighted under the name of Tool, or any of their affiliations. Hell, not even a record label owns any of them.

Here is a quick link to the Copyright in Music Engine.

http://www.copyright.gov/records/cohm.html

If you can find one for yourself... please post. Otherwise it appears to be a false tracklist.

You can copyright a band name...not titles or an album title.

thejesus
03-14-2006, 12:28 PM
Track titles can't be copyrighted can they?

hmmm...good question...I would have to think not...

Tool isn't entitled to exclusive use of to word 'schism' or 'reflection' or the letter 'H' just because they named a song as such

zenkinet
03-14-2006, 12:29 PM
ITEM 1. PA-1-051-352: Lateralus. CLNA: EMI Virgin Music, Inc. & Toolshed Music

ITEM 2. PA-1-157-840: Lateralus. By aMaynard James Keenan, aAdam Jones, aDaniel Carey , aJustin Chancellor. [Claimant:] EMI Virgin Music, Inc., Toolshed Music

ITEM 3. SR-289-952: Lateralus / aTool. CLNA: (c) (p) on artwork, sound recording; acVolcano Entertainment II, LLC (employer for hire)

ITEM 4. SR-313-013: Lateralus; the album by the recording group p.k.a. aTool. By Volcano Entertainment II, LLC. [Claimant:] (c) (p) on artwork, sound recording; acTool Dissectional, LLC & acVolcano Entertainment II, LLC (on original appl.: Volcano Entertainment II, LLC) (additional claimant)

thejesus
03-14-2006, 12:29 PM
hmmm...

I just typed in 'Lateralus' and a bunch of stuff about tool came up

bass_dude
03-14-2006, 12:29 PM
Good point- there are 24 items under TOOL, and none seem to have anything to do with the new album.

However, that doesn't mean its false- as nothing is listed, they COULD still be real, just not processed yet.

Alex

StoneyB
03-14-2006, 12:30 PM
There is no copyright for 10,000 days. Who knows what's going.

thejesus
03-14-2006, 12:31 PM
ITEM 1. PA-628-780: Disgustipated. CLNA: EMI Virgin Music, Inc., & Toolshed Music

ITEM 2. SR-152-692: Undertow / aTool. CLNA: (p) on performance, recording; acBMG Music (employer for hire)

Jesus Knievel
03-14-2006, 12:32 PM
look up any of tools other songs......they're trademarked

pris0n
03-14-2006, 12:33 PM
Bin.

why would this go to the bin?

Nebel
03-14-2006, 12:33 PM
As I said, they wouldn't copyright them now, there's no point, near the release date they will.

StoneyB
03-14-2006, 12:34 PM
When i searched I only found 3 titles under Tool. They were under the joint dissectional/volcano label. Tool has a new label now, I think it's sony.

eddie75
03-14-2006, 12:34 PM
They'd copyright them before a single got released to the radio stations. which means that there should be something in the next couple of weeks

StoneyB
03-14-2006, 12:36 PM
By the way, does anyone happen to know anything about Tool's record contract? It seems like APC made it very clear that they had a 3 release (i could be wrong) deal with virgin. I've never heard anything about Tool having any kind of contract like that.

bass_dude
03-14-2006, 12:44 PM
hmmm...good question...I would have to think not...

Tool isn't entitled to exclusive use of to word 'schism' or 'reflection' or the letter 'H' just because they named a song as such


but when i searched for Offspring, 80 titles came up, with individual song titles copyrighted?

hmm

Tool must be loving this hysteria about their new album :P

Alex

thejesus
03-14-2006, 12:45 PM
I just did a search for Stadium Arcadium and nothing came up....

Probably just take a while to process and be entered into the database...

ATARI
03-14-2006, 12:57 PM
did you try ten thousand days instead of 10,000?

Fd2Blk
03-14-2006, 01:01 PM
I tried searching the database on Sunday using Telnet (it's a more thorough version, connecting to locis.gov) and nothing came up for anything related to the names they've given. The reason this doesn't mean much is that all of their previous stuff was copyrighted AFTER it was published. In fact, I think the smallest margin was about a month gap between being published and being copyrighted.

It could have been a cool way to figure it out, but for any doubters/supporters, it is rather inconclusive.


By the way, I did several variations of 10,000 days and got a couple things, but no Tool.

2and46
03-14-2006, 01:03 PM
As I said, they wouldn't copyright them now, there's no point, near the release date they will.

You are exactly right...this means nothing. Nice angle though.

khemystri
03-14-2006, 01:03 PM
bin!!! is like a nervous tick around here.....

goats
03-14-2006, 01:06 PM
sony/bmg ownz volcano, i believe

48&2
03-14-2006, 01:09 PM
This thread failed to deliver.

Sol Invictus
03-14-2006, 01:13 PM
Ya the album cant be copyrighted lets not forget last spring Mudvayne and Will Smith both released an album called Lost and Found.

khemystri
03-14-2006, 01:18 PM
Ya the album cant be copyrighted lets not forget last spring Mudvayne and Will Smith both released an album called Lost and Found.

The Coup and System of a Down both released "Steal This Album"

pki2003
03-14-2006, 01:46 PM
I don't know a lot about copyright law in general (perhhaps it's better to say I know enough to get me into trouble but seriously lack the skills to get myself out). What I "think" I know, or at least heard over some serious bong hits, is that you can copyright titles, phrases, jokes, artwork, movies, deviations of those titles/phrases, and any subsequent connection to and or affiliation with those previously stated titles/jokes/artwork, etc. et al. If you don't believe me check out "Three peat" held by Pat Riley, "Your Fired" held by Donald Trump, "You might be a redneck" held by Jeff Foxworthy, etc.

Now inregards to the track list, I personally do not believe it would be in the bands interest to make public a list of titles that they intend to put on their album or subsequent releases. Reason being any of you douches on t.d.n., or toolband, could take said list copyright/patent it yourself before they do and then sue tool for the rights. In cases where albums have been released under same names, two things are possible. 1. Neither entity filed for the copyright/patent or 2. They reached some kind of settlement agreement and are paying compensation or restitution some other way.

Myriad: Days To Come
03-14-2006, 01:51 PM
Good finds... I'll keep checking into the website closer to the actual release date of the new album.

TenSpeed
03-14-2006, 02:01 PM
Now inregards to the track list, I personally do not believe it would be in the bands interest to make public a list of titles that they intend to put on their album or subsequent releases. Reason being any of you douches on t.d.n., or toolband, could take said list copyright/patent it yourself before they do and then sue tool for the rights. In cases where albums have been released under same names, two things are possible. 1. Neither entity filed for the copyright/patent or 2. They reached some kind of settlement agreement and are paying compensation or restitution some other way.
Wrong.
The copyrights are for the MUSIC AND LYRICS, NOT THE TITLES.
They're just filed under the titles since....they're the fucking titles.

edit: Not meant to be hostile, but so many people are thinking the wrong thing.

thejesus
03-14-2006, 02:05 PM
I don't know...I'm starting to belive it...

10000days.com along with half the titles (the ones that aren't just simple words, like 'the pot') were all registered on 2/15/06, weeks before they were released by:

Technical Contact:
Private, Registration [email protected]
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
DomainsByProxy.com
xxxxx N. Hayden Rd., Ste xxx, PMB xxx
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States


though, a couple of them such as Lipan Conjuring were registered on 3/9/06


and Rosetta Stoned was registered back in December by:

Registrant:
xxxxxxxxxx
xxxx xxxxx St
North Hollywood, California 91601
United States

dracomordag
03-14-2006, 03:37 PM
I don't know...I'm starting to belive it...

10000days.com along with half the titles (the ones that aren't just simple words, like 'the pot') were all registered on 2/15/06, weeks before they were released by:

Technical Contact:
Private, Registration [email protected]
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
DomainsByProxy.com
xxxxx N. Hayden Rd., Ste xxx, PMB xxx
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States

there we go

thejesus
03-14-2006, 03:41 PM
there we go

???

tDoXoMl
03-14-2006, 06:44 PM
Wrong.
The copyrights are for the MUSIC AND LYRICS, NOT THE TITLES.
They're just filed under the titles since....they're the fucking titles.

edit: Not meant to be hostile, but so many people are thinking the wrong thing.


alright now that we got that settled...

i think what we should be querying are the internet domains for the titles. i think if the domains for these titles arent registered then we might just have fake information afterall. sorry if im waking a notion of your haunted past...

thejesus
03-14-2006, 07:10 PM
alright now that we got that settled...

i think what we should be querying are the internet domains for the titles. i think if the domains for these titles arent registered then we might just have fake information afterall. sorry if im waking a notion of your haunted past...

uh, see post #34 above

psims23
03-14-2006, 07:13 PM
I thought names were trademarked, and not copywritten...I dunno, this coulda been discussed before, I refuse to read through all the long paragraphs that were written previous

TenSpeed
03-14-2006, 07:27 PM
I thought names were trademarked, and not copywritten...I dunno, this coulda been discussed before, I refuse to read through all the long paragraphs that were written previous
Brand names and shit are trademarked, slogans are trademarked, songs and album titles are not trademarked.

Ganjalf
03-14-2006, 07:44 PM
well i dont think they would release the title names if they werent copyrighted what stops me from copyrighting them?

TenSpeed
03-14-2006, 07:45 PM
well i dont think they would release the title names if they werent copyrighted what stops me from copyrighting them?
The fact you can't copyright titles maybe?

Ganjalf
03-14-2006, 07:45 PM
The fact you can't copyright titles maybe?

yeah im a dumbass my bad :'(

SpiralOutKeepGoing
03-14-2006, 08:16 PM
If it ain't there doesn't prove anything to me because the album is still like 50 days away from coming out.

Fd2Blk
03-14-2006, 08:37 PM
And actually from what I know, the point of a copyright is to PROVE you were the creator of something. In other words, if you wrote a song, but didn't copyright the song (the titles can't be copyrighted, as far as I've heard...think of all the songs by the same name) and somebody else started passing the song off as their own, you would simply need to prove you wrote it first...the copyright just makes the process easier.

choirsoftheeye
03-14-2006, 08:41 PM
If it ain't there doesn't prove anything to me because the album is still like 50 days away from coming out.

Well, to be fair, a lot of copyrighting takes place years in advance. I believe (forgive me for being a huge nerd) that SquareEnix has Final Fantasy copyrighted through Final Fantasy XV and Final Fantasy XII isn't even out. That's not a completely comparable situation, but it's still useful.

swaps
03-14-2006, 09:11 PM
sony/bmg ownz volcano, i believe
Don't forget Zomba... Volcano > Zomba > Sony BMG



BTW, the new song titles aren't in ASCAP's database (yet).

If anyone's interested, check out StarPolish's Advice Library: Music Publishing and Copyrights (http://www.starpolish.com/advice/article.asp?id=21).

dracomordag
03-14-2006, 09:14 PM
note the name stealth bomber

POST #666!!!!

bitches

magnolia
03-14-2006, 09:26 PM
Yeah isn't it the actual music and songs that are copyrighted, and that the database searches via titles? If so, then they haven't copyrighted these titles. Could it be possible that the copyrights are pending? I think we should definately keep an eye on this search engine until the release anyway. Because if something DOES come up, it's instant and 100% official confirmation.

Mr.Rubberburner
03-14-2006, 09:27 PM
what a stupid thread

TenSpeed
03-14-2006, 09:32 PM
And actually from what I know, the point of a copyright is to PROVE you were the creator of something. In other words, if you wrote a song, but didn't copyright the song (the titles can't be copyrighted, as far as I've heard...think of all the songs by the same name) and somebody else started passing the song off as their own, you would simply need to prove you wrote it first...the copyright just makes the process easier.
This man knows what's up.
Welcome to tdn.

hanger25934
03-14-2006, 09:33 PM
what a stupid thread

no!!! not on Toolshed. lol

alexmarcy
03-14-2006, 11:04 PM
Songs can be copyrighted, but the names cannot, meaning many bands could use the same song titles, but the contents of the songs, i.e. the music is copyrighted. Any band could put out a cd called Lateralus, and even use the same song titles in the same order, but the material contained on the cd, the music would have to be different, otherwise it would be copyright infringement.

Fd2Blk
03-15-2006, 12:00 AM
This man knows what's up.
Welcome to tdn.


Thanks for the welcome.



After searching the database for the last time looking at the way this stuff seems to have gone in the past...I am going to wager that we won't see the music copyrighted until after May 2nd. Lateralus took just under 2 months. The DPUB (publishing date) always precedes the DREG (registration date) from what I can see....though I'm no expert.

Perseensilmä
03-15-2006, 01:04 AM
I just did a search for Stadium Arcadium and nothing came up....

Probably just take a while to process and be entered into the database...



LATERALUS:

Published: 15May01
Registered: 2Jul01

cacophony
03-15-2006, 02:54 AM
In the search just type in Jones, Adam, and you get all there stuff (after clicking the adam jones with 25 results of course) except 10,000 days for obvious reasons.