Musicianship on the new CD?

[bass_dude]

Ok, so we've got all the "New titles- real!" and "new artwork?!" threads, but what do you guys think will happen as per the Guitar/bass sounds and/or techniques? Rumors so far are:

Justin- Improved greatly, doing amazing things,
Adam- Again improved, maybe doing "Hendrix-esque" stuff on one or two (as per that review somewhere)

I wonder what kind of stuff they'll play? reckon Adam will stick to his style he's gotten into, just improving on it, or you think he'll expand, maybe into a- i hate to use the description- "Normal" style? maybe a guitar solo or two reminiscent of "Part of me?"

As for Justin, Do you think there will be much clean bass, or will it be Pedal-laden from the get go? I wonder if he'll venture further into fretless, as i love the fretless sound he got on Lateralus- rekon he'll stay with playing the chords in the heavier bits? or does "improving" to you mean he's abandoned that, and is filling out with other new techniques?

Discuss (No Flaming please)

Alex

[Bogart]

No flaming...well then, I guess I really don't have anyting to add to this thread.

[2and46]

Is that a rhetorical question?

[bass_dude]

um...no?

-Discuss- means i was looking for opinions.

[dracomordag]

I think Tool may go to a more simplistic style (technique wise, not song-writing wise), fleshed in with some "flashy" bits.

[ButtholeJones2]

Ok, so we've got all the "New titles- real!" and "new artwork?!" threads, but what do you guys think will happen as per the Guitar/bass sounds and/or techniques? Rumors so far are:

Justin- Improved greatly, doing amazing things,
Adam- Again improved, maybe doing "Hendrix-esque" stuff on one or two (as per that review somewhere)

I wonder what kind of stuff they'll play? reckon Adam will stick to his style he's gotten into, just improving on it, or you think he'll expand, maybe into a- i hate to use the description- "Normal" style? maybe a guitar solo or two reminiscent of "Part of me?"

As for Justin, Do you think there will be much clean bass, or will it be Pedal-laden from the get go? I wonder if he'll venture further into fretless, as i love the fretless sound he got on Lateralus- rekon he'll stay with playing the chords in the heavier bits? or does "improving" to you mean he's abandoned that, and is filling out with other new techniques?

Discuss (No Flaming please)

Alex

My opinion is that every tool album is masterfully executed from a musicianship perspective.

[sularetal]

I hope Baresi did his job well.

[G-Dub4lyfe]

A "Part of Me" will die if Adam starts playing in a "normal" guitar style.

[TheHolyGift]

It would cool if Adam a long, more impressive solo, incorporating bits of David Gilmour and Robert Fripp into his own unique whatever it is that he does.

[MikeBalzary]

I couldn't imagine tool getting too simple. I would like to hear the hendrix influence in adams work.

[/Parallelus/Reflectionis/]

It would cool if Adam a long, more impressive solo, incorporating bits of David Gilmour and Robert Fripp into his own unique whatever it is that he does.

ishh.. I don't know about that, personally...

It would be just amazing if they simply continue to evolve the way they did all this time ! I love their techniques and styles, and it would be great if they would go on with it, while improving and evolving it naturally.

[/Parallelus/Reflectionis/]

forgot to say...

I wouldn't say I reject solos, only that "classic" solos would be horrible with Tool.
(I'm not saying that Robert Fripp is "classic", I love his original style, but it has to remain with his music, I think)

But if Adam continue his evolution in the Reflection-soloing style, then this is gonna be incredible. In fact, every sort-of-solos in Lateralus are just too great. I hope he keeps this style while evolving.

[ATARI]

I hope Joe doesn't screw up this record. His work with Queens of the Stone Age is terrible.

[blair's man sausage]

I hope Joe doesn't screw up this record. His work with Queens of the Stone Age is terrible.

in what sense?

[bass_dude]

I hope Joe doesn't screw up this record. His work with Queens of the Stone Age is terrible.

I've got to say, i love the Queens, but i really hope this record doesn't end up sounding like them.

Alex

[cantkeepmeaway]

danny will blow us all away...even more than lateralus.......yeah i know you said guitars but i dont care.......slleeeppping beauty..........SLLLLLLeeeppping beauty.

[blair's man sausage]

I've got to say, i love the Queens, but i really hope this record doesn't end up sounding like them.

Alex

i don't think there is really a chance of that since they are 2 seperate beasts....

[toocooltool]

I have absolutely no idea what the next album will sound like.

[exojjl]

Ok, so we've got all the "New titles- real!" and "new artwork?!" threads, but what do you guys think will happen as per the Guitar/bass sounds and/or techniques? Rumors so far are:

Justin- Improved greatly, doing amazing things,
Adam- Again improved, maybe doing "Hendrix-esque" stuff on one or two (as per that review somewhere)

I wonder what kind of stuff they'll play? reckon Adam will stick to his style he's gotten into, just improving on it, or you think he'll expand, maybe into a- i hate to use the description- "Normal" style? maybe a guitar solo or two reminiscent of "Part of me?"

As for Justin, Do you think there will be much clean bass, or will it be Pedal-laden from the get go? I wonder if he'll venture further into fretless, as i love the fretless sound he got on Lateralus- rekon he'll stay with playing the chords in the heavier bits? or does "improving" to you mean he's abandoned that, and is filling out with other new techniques?

Discuss (No Flaming please)

Alex

Undertow: Adam
Aenima: Maynard
Lateralus: Justin
new album....?: Danny

In otherwords......A more drum oriented album.........

[megadan]

Undertow: Adam
Aenima: Maynard
Lateralus: Justin
new album....?: Danny

In otherwords......A more drum oriented album.........

That's about the only logical thing I've read so far.
Not saying it's true... Lateralus was pretty Danny too.

I'm sure whatever it, it will sound awesome.


I can see Justin using his Rat pedal more, more distorted bass verus Lateralus.

[Raul78]

Undertow: Adam
Aenima: Maynard
Lateralus: Justin
new album....?: Danny

In otherwords......A more drum oriented album.........
I'm sorry but Lateralus was all about Danny Carey. That album is bursting with outstanding drumming performances.

[TurdEye13]

In otherwords......A more drum oriented album.........

They are all pretty much drum dominated.

[jhnygsh]

I hope Joe doesn't screw up this record. His work with Queens of the Stone Age is terrible.
\im just glad they didnt get rick ruban (i know some people love this guy) but he ruins every RHCP disc he produces.

im hoping for some prog grooves.

[dracomordag]

prog groove is good

tool is good.

[STA]

\im just glad they didnt get rick ruban (i know some people love this guy) but he ruins every RHCP disc he produces.

im hoping for some prog grooves.

I disagree, Blood Sugar Sex Magick was fantastic.

[researchtriangle]

i think it will be trippy "maaaaan"

sparks a nasty j

[Sleep]

I wish they'd of stuck with David Bottrill. Sucks he was busy with Staind.

Danny dominated Lateralus. The music as a whole was technically superior to Aenima regardless though.

[jhnygsh]

I disagree, Blood Sugar Sex Magick was fantastic.

yeah... that did sound good. i was thinking of californication and by the way... all mid-range... to bad also because by the way was chock full of good harmonies

liked king crimsons last producer, the machine. he did the power to believe which sounded incredible

[2and46]

Undertow: Adam
Aenima: Maynard
Lateralus: Justin
new album....?: Danny

In otherwords......A more drum oriented album.........

I thought Lateralus was chalk-full of DC, though Justin was fucking great on that album.

[orange.juice]

As for Justin, Do you think there will be much clean bass, or will it be Pedal-laden from the get go? I wonder if he'll venture further into fretless, as i love the fretless sound he got on Lateralus- rekon he'll stay with playing the chords in the heavier bits? or does "improving" to you mean he's abandoned that, and is filling out with other new techniques?

Discuss (No Flaming please)

Alex
fretless? Where? I remember there was a picture (in a newsletter or so) of Justin with a quite ugly fretless bass. But where the hell on Lateralus do you hear him play a fretless?

[dracomordag]

fretless? Where? I remember there was a picture (in a newsletter or so) of Justin with a quite ugly fretless bass. But where the hell on Lateralus do you hear him play a fretless?

the Lateralus climax. He does some huge slides there.

[dracomordag]

yeah... that did sound good. i was thinking of californication and by the way... all mid-range... to bad also because by the way was chock full of good harmonies

liked king crimsons last producer, the machine. he did the power to believe which sounded incredible


I like Californication's production alright, by the way wasn't quite as good...

and Power To Believe was very, very well done.

[orange.juice]

the Lateralus climax. He does some huge slides there.
o rly? that´s bullshit. he uses his Digitech whammy pedal (http://www.digitech.com/products/whammy.htm) there. It is an octaver pedal, cool stuff. The octaver effect combined with a pedal can also be found in the Boss ME-50 B (http://www.roland.com/products/en/ME-50B/index.html).

So, where does Justin play fretless bass on Lateralus?

[blair's man sausage]

i do remember articles and discussions with justin about his learning and incorporating the fretless bass....if i get time i'll hunt these down if someone doesn't beat me to it

[5th Eye]

Doesn't he use a fretless on "Lateralus"?

[orange.juice]

Doesn't he use a fretless on "Lateralus"?
fretless basses have a very distinguishable sound. It's quite mellow and, depending on the playing technique, have that "mwaaah" to it. Fretless basses are usually not played with a pick, Justin Chancellor however is a pick player. Afaik he uses his famous Wal bass (http://www.basscentral.com/2003/wal.shtml) on Lateralus. Those are quite expensive, maybe overprized, but have a very clear and full sound. He used to play a Musicman Stingray before that i think, and i would be surprised if there was any fretless playing on Lateralus (the album).

[ruethewhirl]

From bass player magazine (May 2001):

BP"Do you play fretless on Lateralus?"
JC"Yes, on the title song, but only on the second verse. I couldn’t play fretless before we recorded this album, and I spent hours trying to get the part right. I even put marks on the fretboard. The bass is so beautiful that I spent a long time just looking at it—now I have to learn how to play it!"

Although to be honest, I never really noticed it prior to reading this, I thought maybe it was more likely to have been there in the slidey distorted section. Would be interesting if he has put some on the new cd.

[orange.juice]

that's weird. Why would he switch instruments amidst the song? He doesn´t do it on stage. Well it's bass player magazine so it must be true.

But yeah it would be great to hear some Toolish fretless playing on the new record, though i somehow doubt it will happen.

[idontmind462]

3:10

g---------------------------------
d--------------10-------------12--
a-------0--5/8---------0—5/10-----
d---12\\-----------12\\-----------

[orange.juice]

well i see what you're after, but when you listen to Lateralus closely (the studio record) you´ll notice there is no slide from the first d down, also none from "5" to "8".

g---------------------------
d--0------10--0--------12--
a--------8-----------10-----
d-----7-----------7---------

This is just my opinion, and i could be wrong, but i trust my ears rather than a sloppy tab from the internet. The first note in that riff is not a "12" on the tuned down e-string, but rather the open d string. You´ll notice a huge difference in tone when you compare open notes to their fretted equivalent. The open string is obviously much richer in harmonics due to string length. The second note, the a, is darker and not so clear in tone, not an open string. Rest is self explanatory. When played this way it´s also more natural for the left hand.

The difference between open string notes and fretted (duh) notes is even more audible on a fretless instrument. You'd hear if it was a fretless on Lateralus, and i'm quite certain it isn't.

[idontmind462]

Dude... you didn't just... dude.

By the way, you're talking about the first time he plays a riff sounding like that, not the one at 3:10.

that's
g---------------------------
d---------10-----------12--
a--5-----8----5-----10-----
d-----0----------0---------

I'm sorry if I sound like a dick, but I dedicated a good part of my life perfecting Tool bass tabs. I'm one of the few proud tabbing members of tt.net

We know what the fuck we're talking about. We hear it, we tab, then people video confirm it.

'some internet site'.... take that back.

[Alistair_Carson]

i smell ovulation

[orange.juice]

By the way, you're talking about the first time he plays a riff sounding like that, not the one at 3:10.

while i agree with this, i must say your babies are pretty fucked up.

g---------------------------
d---0----10---0------12--
a--------8----------10-----
d-----0----------0---------

but that's not the right thread for tab fighting.

[idontmind462]

Trust me, I've seen it live twice (in person) and on video a hundred times.

I know it sounds like an open D instead of a D on the A string, but you have to take into account the kind of pedals Justin uses.

Yes. It's pathetic that I know the difference and would argue it. That's what ToolTabbers do.

[idontmind462]

I forgot to mention that I don't have actual power there, If I did...

There would be tab updates constantly.

[Alistair_Carson]

I play a fretless as well, but for me, it's hard to tell exactly what he's doing at 3:10. maybe fretless with pedal?

[idontmind462]

g---------------------------------
d--------------10-------------12--
a-------0--5/8---------0—5/10-----
d---12\\-----------12\\-----------

http://www.basscentral.com/2003/wal.shtml

http://walbasses.homestead.com/FamousWalOwners.html

these are used to create that sound,

dod envelope filter
sans amp - bass di
ernie ball volume pedal

plus he may use the sweep knob on the bass itself. yes, i said sweep knob on his bass, that's no guitar or cry baby bass you're hearing in the beginning of The Patient.

i doubt it's in Lateralus, though. that's a lot to do.

[orange.juice]

Sweep knob, wtf? i always thought it's a regular wahwah pedal...

hmmm ok.

it seems there is quite a difference between Tool live and Tool on a record then. Could it be that he plays his stuff different on the CD?
A good example would be the Schism main riff. All tabs i've seen so far go like this:

g-----------10---9-------
d-0--h10h12---0----0----
a------------------------------
d-------------------------------

but on the CD, note two, three and four (c,d,f) just don´t sound like hammer ons. It's more like fast and precise picking (d string: down up down, g string : up). The transition between them is quite smooth, and the tone is perfectly the same.
Now, we all know those short videos from that bass magazine in which Justin plays that riff, and he does hammer ons there. Live he may also play the hammer ons, which makes sense because they don´t sound that awful when fucked up, it's a lot easier to play (less work for the picking hand), and the difference wouldn't be noticed on stage anyway. But on the CD, the notes come off so clear, you can almost hear the sound of the pick on the strings. I think these are not hammer ons. Opinions?

[bass_dude]

^they do sound like individual notes on the CD, but then again, he has very strong tapping fingers (as demonstrated in the opening of the Patient), so It wouldn't seem too odd for him to hammer them on and still sound like individuals.

His tone is very clear, and trebly on that one, so it would accentuate the notes anyway (If you try tapping on a bass with high bass, you'll hear they sound less clear/precise)

Alex

[idontmind462]

He definitely doesn't own a wah. He owns a Digitech Bass Whammy, but that can't make sounds like what you're hearing in The Patient.

They are hammers in Schism, trust me, Adam is the one picking. There's no hammers in what Adam's playing.

Remember, they have shitloads of money and equipment, shit you've never heard of, shit I don't even know of... also, they used Pro Tools to make the album, the riff was perfected once and looped.

The SansAmp BassDriver DI smoothes and sharpens edges, so it's hard to tell what you're actually hearing.

The tapping in The Patient is where Justin uses the sweep knob. Why do you think it's tapping and not picking, he's fiddlin with the sweep.

[bass_dude]

^its actually a really nice technique, that i've tried to emulate, and cannot quite perfect :)
And i want a Bassdriver, but they are waaay too expensive for me...

Alex

[orange.juice]

wow that SansAmp box seems to be an impressive device indeed. hmm not too expensive either.
Still i guess his Wal bass takes account of most of that clear sound on Lateralus.

[dragongrrl]

maybe this thought is complete heresy but... i'd like the new record to be less technical.

why? you ask. because i'd like to see some looser playing when they are on tour. the Lateralus tour was so technically demanding that the band could barely mix up the song list from night to night.

i plan to see these guys many times when they hit the road in the US. it would be nice if i wasn't seeing the same show night after night.

i'd even like to see/hear some (dare i say it?) improvisation! i like live music to sound different than the cd.

[researchtriangle]

here's what's going on in lateralus kids:

during the verses with the heavy tom work he's using fretless. perhaps only the second verse tohugh (as stated in the interview). at the climax he's using the whammy pedal to get the "slides" up and down an octave. like a fretless slide up the board, you get all the microtones in between with the whammy up, but the sound is a little different and distinct, that's how you can tell it's the pedal. did that make sense?

edit: man those wal basses are purty. i remember geddy lee playing a black one and never thought it was that great but these are very nice.

[idontmind462]

You're talking about exactly the tab I posted, the second time he plays something like that.

Dude, not only that with the whammy, listen to that fuzz.

[Wretched]

idon'tmind462 is a fun person, I think he should teach me the skillz of bass playing.

The muscianship on the new album will be good.

[dracomordag]

o rly? that´s bullshit. he uses his Digitech whammy pedal (http://www.digitech.com/products/whammy.htm) there. It is an octaver pedal, cool stuff. The octaver effect combined with a pedal can also be found in the Boss ME-50 B (http://www.roland.com/products/en/ME-50B/index.html).

So, where does Justin play fretless bass on Lateralus?

I just made a guess... I do know that he uses a fretless in the song, however. And I've seen some tabs that try to mimick the pedal sound with fretless slides... however a pedal does quite explain the sound, now.


EDIT: seems someone else posted the other place he uses the fretless. alright.

[idontmind462]

What I tabbed Justin uses a Wal Fretless in Lateralus. 8 bars and out.

It's like this, see...

Justin plays a custom Wal 4 Mach II most of the time. It's actually called a "Justin Chancellor" model. These basses are ALL electronics. They're handcrafted from England and extremely expensive, somewhere around $3600. They're a little on the heavy side but extremely comfortable to play. Danny Lohner is a *** and bought one. I can't stress enough how much electronics these basses are... that's where the super clean tone comes from.

***There is a sweep knob on his bass that would sound to most people like he's playing a Cry Baby Wah, in reality, the beginning of The Patient, the only example thusfar, he is tapping the frets with his left hand and rolling the sweep with his right hand. On top of that there's some wicked delay going on as well.

Now. The snap, sharpness, smoothness, fatness, edge, thinness etc. comes from the SansAmp BassDriver DI.
He also has a SansAmp GT-2 which will mock any rig you can think of, between the two from SansAmp you could get infinite incredible bass tones.
The fuzz/distortion comes from a Pro-Co Rat, but can also be helped with the DI.

Then there's the Digitech Bass Whammy. Prime examples are the whale like sounds in Eulogy and Pushit (Salival), the intro to Eulogy, the breakdown to Schism where he combines that with the volume knob, and the climax in Lateralus. But, on top of all that, Disposition. Yes, that's all bass and it's all Whammy.

I'm tired of typing, I'll write more when I feel like it.

[idontmind462]

I want to make something clear, in Lateralus when JC is using his Whammy, that's not a fretless bass, the only fretless is in the part I provided, you can hear the difference quite easily, you can hear the frets breaking up the slides.

[idontmind462]

Looks like I wrote all that for nothing.

[researchtriangle]

disposition is not all bass. you've got bass, electric and acoustic guitars....some vocal chords

[Tachyon]

At Disposition JC uses natural and artificial harmonics right??? Can someone explain the technique to me?? I play the guitar and a little bit of bass but I like to learn stuff.

[Animus X torsi]

i think justins gonna ditch bass and play the trombone, and tool will become the mighty mighty l.a.tools

[dracomordag]

At Disposition JC uses natural and artificial harmonics right??? Can someone explain the technique to me?? I play the guitar and a little bit of bass but I like to learn stuff.

Harmonics are created by lightly placing your finger over a fret, creating another node, forcing the string into a higher frequency.

Finding a good tab of disposition is key, because each harmonic tone is greatly determined by how it's played. TT.net is a good place to go, and they often have some more detailed descriptions than what I can spew off the top of my head without ever having tried to play Disposition.

[Tachyon]

Thnx for the tip. I will look into it, not that I'm expecting any Tool-like result.

[SpareForTheWarFishers]

Adam recorded the whole new album with his teeth. True story.

[idontmind462]

I didn't mean that Disposition didn't have guitar in it...

There's no artificial harmonics...

[Tachyon]

Which means?? And why not??

[idontmind462]

...what?

[Tachyon]

I didn't mean that Disposition didn't have guitar in it...

There's no artificial harmonics...

What's the difference between natural and artificial harmonics and why aren't any artificial harmonics in the song.

[idontmind462]

It was a joke. If you don't know the difference, look it up.

[Tachyon]

Just what I thought.

[idontmind462]

g-----------<7>----<5>----------------------<7>-----------------
d----<9>-------------------0---------<9>----------------16------
a--7------7------7------5----------7------7------7-/-14----14--- x6
d-----------------------------0---------------------------------

[delysid]

I know I'm way behind in the thread, but I've always played the verses to Lateralus like this....

g|----------5----------7----|
d|--------3----------5------|
a|--5----------5------------|
d|-----0----------0---------|
(lots of good slides at the right parts...)

I personally think playing it that way sounds a lot closer to the album version.

[idontmind462]

wow. that's exactly what I posted for the first verse, just 4 of the notes are in different places.

you have to realize what JC is playing with, your basses don't sound anything like his.

a 3 on the high D on your bass sounds the same as an 8 on the A of Justin's bass...

both tabs i posted are what he plays. period.