Tool DOES owe its fans, maynard atleast does.

[Naga Royal Guard]

Tool fans are fiercely loyal to the cause, if maynard is involved the fans usually are somewhere near. We have waited 5 years and had to live threw 2 APC albums, the last of which is an atrocity. We have had to put up with the introvert-pseudo-philanthropist bullshit from countless virgin APC fans and tolerate that bitch Paz Lechintetnan and Billy Howerdel 's bulbling attempts at being Justin CHancellor and Adam jones, respectively. ( their drummer is pretty good tho )

WE HAVE TOLERATED ENOUGH.

And then they embargo reviews?

This new album better be fucking good.

[Ryan]

This new album better be fucking good.

and if it isn't...?

[orange.juice]

and if it isn't...?
a lot of people would have to deal with their "maynard <3 U" tattoos.

[fraz]

didn't maynard get a new tattoo? - some kind of high-tech one. i remember blair mentioning something about it

[/V\agina]

I'll have to disagree. How can anyone in their right mind say that APC was bad? Dear god, they were straight up geniuses.

eMOTIVe wasn't my favorite idea for an album, but when I heard it, I realized hell, it's not so bad. I would have loved for them to have pushed out an actual album, but you gotta admit, finally hearing vacant redone and rewritten for an album version was a good experience. Their cover of What's Goin' On always makes me cry. I love Danny Lohner's work, so Counting Bodies was awesome.

The only cover I didn't care for was When The Levee Breaks, because I didn't realize at the time that it was originally like a folk song from some lady years ago. I had thought that Zeppelin were the originators of that song.

Anyway, the day that a band starts owing its fans anything is day I stop listening to music. If it weren't for them making this music in the first place, they wouldn't even have fans to bitch about being owed something. You know what you're going to get in return for all that money you spent on shows, albums, shirts, etc? You're going to get a new effort from Tool. If you don't like it, that's your fault. They can't be expected to make a universally kick ass album, because not every fan is going to like it. Therefore, even if they did owe us something, they wouldn't be able to pay us back.

If anyone owes anyone anything, you owe me my time back.

[Kurt Russell]

( their drummer is pretty good tho ).
I fucking hate Josh Freese. He is not a good drummer at all and he drums on fucking EVERYTHING. Seriously, when you think of josh freese, you think of hi-hat and snare, that's it. He never does anything interesting at all.

[Boozy Eulogist]

Anyway, the day that a band starts owing its fans anything is day I stop listening to music.
....

If anyone owes anyone anything, you owe me my time back.

So the moment they owe you, you stop listening. The moment he owes you, you ramble about it?

Interesting.

[Dharma Bear]

Maynard does not owe anyone anything. Tool is a band, and they'll do pretty much what they want, when they want. You either like it, or you don't. All we can do is enjoy what comes out, when it comes out. I kinda like how Tool takes so long to put out an album, it makes it rather.......epic.

I suppose its easier for me to say cause I actualy enjoy APC.

[Boozy Eulogist]

tolerate that bitch Paz Lechintetnan and Billy Howerdel 's bulbling attempts at being Justin CHancellor and Adam jones, respectively.

Funny, Maynard asked to be added to Billy's project. I was unaware Adam started Tool as a solo gig, wrote most of the songs by himself, and had planned to play most of the intruments too.

[Lateral Undertow]

Why would Tool owe us anything, especially because of an APC album? Tool and APC are 2 separate entities. Sure they have a common denominator in Maynard, but they are still separate. If you want to think a band owes you something, fine that is your opinion and you can feel how you want. However if you are going to feel that way because of an APC album then you should claim that APC owes you something not Tool.

[ATF-34]

tolerate that bitch Paz Lechintetnan.


Its not PAZ anymore, its Twiggy the guy from Manson's band. But that's not the point. The emotive CD for the most part i didn't care for at all.

[Bogart]

Tool owe us nothing. Everybody is crying about the embargo, but if I were in their position I would want to handle it the same way. It's their art, they should be able to present it however they please and when they please. I'm just excited a new album will be out in mere months.

[khemystri]

Tool fans are fiercely loyal to the cause, if maynard is involved the fans usually are somewhere near. We have waited 5 years and had to live threw 2 APC albums, the last of which is an atrocity. We have had to put up with the introvert-pseudo-philanthropist bullshit from countless virgin APC fans and tolerate that bitch Paz Lechintetnan and Billy Howerdel 's bulbling attempts at being Justin CHancellor and Adam jones, respectively. ( their drummer is pretty good tho )

WE HAVE TOLERATED ENOUGH.

And then they embargo reviews?

This new album better be fucking good.

Elephtheria...... YOU OWE ME......
It took 5-10 seconds to read that abortion you call a post......
I want that time back!!!!!

If you want instant gratification, subscribe to an American Idol Blog, Tivo
the show, and put it on a continuous loop....

This thread is a digital miscarrage.... flush it..... and move on with your life.

[Staticfactory]

I fucking hate Josh Freese. He is not a good drummer at all and he drums on fucking EVERYTHING. Seriously, when you think of josh freese, you think of hi-hat and snare, that's it. He never does anything interesting at all.

With a comment like that, I can only assume you don't play drums Nate. There is a reason he's in high demand as a studio drummer. Let me guess... you think that Travis Barker (Blink 182) is a shitty drummer too?

*scoff*

[Estevan]

The new albumn is going to suck. It's T00L's shark jump.

[MrMcPheezy]

I fucking hate Josh Freese. He is not a good drummer at all and he drums on fucking EVERYTHING. Seriously, when you think of josh freese, you think of hi-hat and snare, that's it. He never does anything interesting at all.

...dude, josh freese is fucking amazing.

[paraflux]

Freese=overrated in that everything he does pretty much sounds the same.

[ARMZ]

Tool do not owe us anything. It's like drugs, you buy your shit, get high and maybe repeat. With Tool it's the same, you buy their music get high, feel good, learn, whatever....why should they give us anything else but a product to purchase. It's not like your drug dealer will give you shit for free.

If you're worried about the album not being good or better than previous titles then that's to bad, sometimes a hit just isn't the same as the one before but sometimes it's better or just reaches the same peak.

Everything will work out just fine.

Is that better mods?

[T-13h]

Playing devil's advocate:

Do not Tool have an obligation to their own art? As art is a means of expression and communication, does that not also imply that they must share it? If maynard is but a reflection of light from the moon, then it hardly seems like he can hold copyrights. Truly, by forming a rock band and striving to enlighten this experience called life have Tool not crafted with their very souls a contract of shared humanity, signed in blood and sealed in beauty?

[paraflux]

What are leaks? They are opportunism. An engineer or intern slips a blank cd in the drive when everyone else is at lunch, at varied points in the creation process. How would you want your work shown to people for the first time, as a work in progress or as a finished product? They are not obligated to us in the least to let us watch them work like that.

[ifrigginghatethis]

im going to show up at coachella, hide in the crowd, and shine a high powered laser pointer at maynards face while he is trying to sing

[paraflux]

Is that better mods?

As opposed to telling elepth to stick to making polls? Dont you think so?

[TurdEye13]

What are leaks? They are opportunism. An engineer or intern slips a blank cd in the drive when everyone else is at lunch, at varied points in the creation process. How would you want your work shown to people for the first time, as a work in progress or as a finished product? They are not obligated to us in the least to let us watch them work like that.

good point

[ARMZ]

As opposed to telling elepth to stick to making polls? Dont you think so?
I do now.

[Kiyou]

nobody ows nobody anything!!!

[Fulcanelli]

Tool fans are fiercely loyal to the cause, if maynard is involved the fans usually are somewhere near. We have waited 5 years and had to live threw 2 APC albums, the last of which is an atrocity. We have had to put up with the introvert-pseudo-philanthropist bullshit from countless virgin APC fans and tolerate that bitch Paz Lechintetnan and Billy Howerdel 's bulbling attempts at being Justin CHancellor and Adam jones, respectively. ( their drummer is pretty good tho )

WE HAVE TOLERATED ENOUGH.

And then they embargo reviews?

This new album better be fucking good.

I think that you owe everyone on this board an appology for wasting our time. Stop bitching and just don't buy the album when it comes out. If you feel this way then just assume that eMotive is the new direction of both APC and Tool and just put them both out of your mind.

[Nimh]

I fucking hate Josh Freese. He is not a good drummer at all and he drums on fucking EVERYTHING. Seriously, when you think of josh freese, you think of hi-hat and snare, that's it. He never does anything interesting at all.

Yes, he does drum on everything. You know why? Cuz he's in demand. Why is that? Because he's good at what he does. He makes tight grooves, and has more of a tendency to lay in the pocket. But that doesn't make him a bad drummer. When you're a session drummer like he is, you REALLY do not want to take over a song, which is why he tends to lay back more. Some of his solo stuff is more interesting. Odd timings, more interesting fills, and he plays all the instruments.

[spiralout987]

You guys say josh freese sucks...

I saw him play in Austin when his right leg was broken... He played the base drum with his left leg and left the high-hat slightly open...

I think that takes some talent, if any of you have ever actually sat down at a drum kit

[bluefire]

I would say the only reason the owe us anything is because by buying all their cds, (bullshit) dvds, and merchandise we allow them to live their lives as they are now. None of them have to work, and are free to explore and do whatever it is they do with their lives. If it wasn't for us maynard would still be working at his fucking pet-smart (or whatever the fuck) and singing "man-dingle-lover" in his spare time. I wouldn't say they "owe" us a new album, but certainly they owe us a bit of gratitude.

[evfain]

Tool fans are fiercely loyal to the cause, if maynard is involved the fans usually are somewhere near. We have waited 5 years and had to live threw 2 APC albums, the last of which is an atrocity. We have had to put up with the introvert-pseudo-philanthropist bullshit from countless virgin APC fans and tolerate that bitch Paz Lechintetnan and Billy Howerdel 's bulbling attempts at being Justin CHancellor and Adam jones, respectively. ( their drummer is pretty good tho )

WE HAVE TOLERATED ENOUGH.

And then they embargo reviews?

This new album better be fucking good.

As much as I love Tool, I'm glad APC exists. I like my Maynard love/rejection songs. Also, while I would say Chancelor is way better than Paz, Billy's great and, in my opinion, fully capable of coming up with more complicated rifts than Adam (as much as I like the guitar in Tool, a lot of it just suits the rest of the song. Billy goes off a little more). Besides, as far as MJK goes you gotta have those other avenues to express yourself ya know. As far as "owing" us anything, no true artists owe their fans anything in my opinion. It's frusterating for us ,but just try to stay optimistic about it. Wait it out and all that good stuff.

[Fulcanelli]

I would say the only reason the owe us anything is because by buying all their cds, (bullshit) dvds, and merchandise we allow them to live their lives as they are now. None of them have to work, and are free to explore and do whatever it is they do with their lives. If it wasn't for us maynard would still be working at his fucking pet-smart (or whatever the fuck) and singing "man-dingle-lover" in his spare time. I wouldn't say they "owe" us a new album, but certainly they owe us a bit of gratitude.

Then stopy buying their CD's, "crappy" DVD's, and whatever. Then Maynard would have to back to Pet-Smart... that'll learn 'em.

You do realize that they just don't sit around and the material is just given to them? All of their music is carefully composed and presented so that people like you will get something special out of it. There are a lot of other bands out there that just pump shit out but it really shows, doesn't it? Just relax, dude. Not too many people can do what they do.

[Dredg]

Tool fans are fiercely loyal to the cause, if maynard is involved the fans usually are somewhere near. We have waited 5 years and had to live threw 2 APC albums, the last of which is an atrocity. We have had to put up with the introvert-pseudo-philanthropist bullshit from countless virgin APC fans and tolerate that bitch Paz Lechintetnan and Billy Howerdel 's bulbling attempts at being Justin CHancellor and Adam jones, respectively. ( their drummer is pretty good tho )

WE HAVE TOLERATED ENOUGH.

And then they embargo reviews?

This new album better be fucking good.

Why are there 2 threads and tons of other people asking this question?

any artist owes their riches to the fans. Ironically an artist is no different then a CEO selling a product to a consumer. It is up to the artist and CEO to distrubute a vintage product that stays in the hearts and minds of the consumer. This is just plain out good business. Many companies like Johnson and Johnson for example specifically write in their credo that the customer comes first, then the employees and then stockholders. Tool is no different then the multimillion dollar company Johnson and Johnson because without the consumer they would be jobless. However, and thereis a BIG HOWEVER. TOOL NEVER SAID THEIR CUSTOMERS COME FIRST. Infact tool said the opposite, the company or this case the BAND comes first. Meaning if Tool are not having fun they will stop releasing new products.

Basically, anybody who is complaining that Tool are not modest and kind to their fans are plain out retarded. These type of people realize although their products are good the comapnies attitude is NOT.

The point is, Tool was never nice and modest towards their fans so they should not be expected to change their minds about the fans. It is not their faults they acted like complete jackass's while their album was on the top of the charts? It isnt their fault they can fake their death and fans keep crawling back for more Bullshit.

ITS YOUR FAULT. If every fan called Tool's bluff and just did not buy their albums then Tool would look like bad business people. Instead its the total reverse, no matter how shitty they treat people they keep gaining a large following.

So exactly what are you complaining about? How you complaining about how so many fans can take abuse from Tool? You do know that some fans could not give two fucks if they show themselves in their music videos, or do any Interviews at all. SOME FANS COULD CARELESS about their PERSONAL LIVES...PERIOD.

So if you want to invade a rich persons life with your MTV cribs, and interviews and such go to the Linkin park or Greenday forums.

As I said in the top of my post (if your ADD riddled mind even cared to read my opinion) Tool is a business like anyother, however, the difference between Tool and Johnson and Johnson is that Tool is a means of ART - not material goods.

If you were focused on the art aspect (Clearly you arent) then you would not bother to make pointless retarded threads like this.

I think we need to SHUT the boards down,

either that or I hope Tool just writes a less catchy album then Lateralus.....these linkin park retards need to go.

[RacecaR123]

Tool fans are fiercely loyal to the cause, if maynard is involved the fans usually are somewhere near. We have waited 5 years and had to live threw 2 APC albums, the last of which is an atrocity. We have had to put up with the introvert-pseudo-philanthropist bullshit from countless virgin APC fans and tolerate that bitch Paz Lechintetnan and Billy Howerdel 's bulbling attempts at being Justin CHancellor and Adam jones, respectively. ( their drummer is pretty good tho )

WE HAVE TOLERATED ENOUGH.

And then they embargo reviews?

This new album better be fucking good.

I think everything you've stated is bullshit. How are Billy howerdel and Paz trying to be like Adam and Justin? They have completely different styles, it's not like they're stealing from Tool. Both APC albums are amazing, and even if it's not your kind of music you could still respect them as artists. I think Maynard was just looking for a bit of balance, Tool is usually pretty heavy music, so he's probably looking for something with a bit more mood and melody. The only reason we compare the two is because of Maynard...but he's claimed he doesn't want to be the focal point of either band. I'm not saying "you should like APC"...but don't tear them down because Maynard enjoys reacting to different music. Although they might not be as intricate as Tool, they are still far better then most bands out there. Billy Howerdel is a "technically" more inclined guitarist than Adam Jones, so saying he's emulating him doesn't make sense.

[Dredg]

Then stopy buying their CD's, "crappy" DVD's, and whatever. Then Maynard would have to back to Pet-Smart... that'll learn 'em.

Although this is true, it does not prove the topic poster wrong. the only rational thing I can pull from what the topic poster is trying to say is that Tool fans should "stand up for themselves and take the shitty attitude from the band memebers" I can agree with this perfectly fine. But like you said...stop buying the business's products. Go buy a product from a business with a good attitude towards their fans...Linkin park has a good business attitude.

You do realize that they just don't sit around and the material is just given to them? All of their music is carefully composed and presented so that people like you will get something special out of it. There are a lot of other bands out there that just pump shit out but it really shows, doesn't it? Just relax, dude. Not too many people can do what they do.


He doesnt realize this, he could give a shit less. He is requesting that the band write less music and focus more on working with MTV Cribs.

[Dredg]

As much as I love Tool, I'm glad APC exists. I like my Maynard love/rejection songs. Also, while I would say Chancelor is way better than Paz, Billy's great and, in my opinion, fully capable of coming up with more complicated rifts than Adam (as much as I like the guitar in Tool, a lot of it just suits the rest of the song. Billy goes off a little more). Besides, as far as MJK goes you gotta have those other avenues to express yourself ya know. As far as "owing" us anything, no true artists owe their fans anything in my opinion. It's frusterating for us ,but just try to stay optimistic about it. Wait it out and all that good stuff.


APC ONLY exists because of the long breaks in between Tool. APC is a compromise for the fans because no matter what TOOL will take 4 years to make an album.

A perfect Circle is diet tool - nothing more nothing less...just another thing to make money.

[Dredg]

I would say the only reason the owe us anything is because by buying all their cds, (bullshit) dvds, and merchandise we allow them to live their lives as they are now. None of them have to work, and are free to explore and do whatever it is they do with their lives. If it wasn't for us maynard would still be working at his fucking pet-smart (or whatever the fuck) and singing "man-dingle-lover" in his spare time. I wouldn't say they "owe" us a new album, but certainly they owe us a bit of gratitude.

I think that gratitude comes from the art they create. I feel tons more statisfaction after 4 years of waiting.

[Vlad]

You're a tool for thinking you're owed anything. Reverse psychology is owning you like a bitch. Just another hook to catch the bitches. Bitches!

[noisetherapy]

I fucking hate Josh Freese. He is not a good drummer at all and he drums on fucking EVERYTHING. Seriously, when you think of josh freese, you think of hi-hat and snare, that's it. He never does anything interesting at all.

this is a load of horseshit.

josh freese plays so many different styles, so many different patterns it makes my ears bleed. maybe your just listening to him on the crappy bands that pay him enormous amounts of money to record drums that their respective drummers can attempt to play. hi-hat and snare??? hardly. are you actually listening to the drums in APC or are you just attacking him because he is the most successful session player today and your not.

give paz a break. she is a violinist that picked up the bass. she is billy's friend and he wanted to work with her. i think she is pretty good. sure JC is better but guess what? THIS ISNT TOOL.

let me guess. you first picked up the power of beef and said. DANNY's DRUMMING SUCKS!!!! your a fucking moron

THEY ARE A DIFFERENT BAND. STOP COMPARING THEM TO TOOL.

[ProdigyDub]

josh freese plays so many different styles, so many different patterns it makes my ears bleed. maybe your just listening to him on the crappy bands that pay him enormous amounts of money to record drums that their respective drummers can attempt to play. hi-hat and snare??? hardly. are you actually listening to the drums in APC or are you just attacking him because he is the most successful session player today and your not.

Ok, I think Josh is a great drummer, and I completely agree with you. But this "he is the most successful session player today" is woefully ignorant. Clearly you've never heard of guys like Kenny Aronoff, Terry Bozzio, etc.

Freese is great, but seriously. Before you make blanket statements like that, you should make sure you really know what you're talking about. There are very very very few drummers in popular rock bands that can actually rank up there with the true best session and freelance artists in the world. Danny is one of the only ones.

[noisetherapy]

Ok, I think Josh is a great drummer, and I completely agree with you. But this "he is the most successful session player today" is woefully ignorant. Clearly you've never heard of guys like Kenny Aronoff, Terry Bozzio, etc.

Freese is great, but seriously. Before you make blanket statements like that, you should make sure you really know what you're talking about. There are very very very few drummers in popular rock bands that can actually rank up there with the true best session and freelance artists in the world. Danny is one of the only ones.

dude i know who those guys are. i thought of this coming up too. but i stand by what i said.

aronoff and bozzio are great session players. (specially bozzios drums with levin and stevens) i say what i said because josh freese is almost half their ages, and he has an astounding amount of credits with many many more to come.

there are probably some others that are better. josh just has a name behind him and hes pretty young compared to the other success stories.

good to hear that you know good drummers!

[Wretched]

I just want an album. I don't care how, or if they owe me it. I'm not on a personal level with them, they haven't made me sit for five years waiting, so they owe me nothing. It'd just be nice if they'd still be kind enough to make a good album.

[symbiosis]

Maynard doesn't exactly owe me anything, but he could be nice and apologize for touring with shitty bands like tmv while with apc... I hope they tour with someone great this time around.

[SpiralOutKeepGoing]

give paz a break. she is a violinist that picked up the bass. she is billy's friend and he wanted to work with her.


I agree that her bass may not be the best in the world but she isn't a bad bassist. Also many people (except for nosietherapy) seem to forget that she plays violin in APC as well but everyone here is just focusing on comparing her to Justin which you can't do because Justin doesn't play violin.

Would someone please end this madness that we call a thread?

[eddie75]

All bands owe their fans something, because without the fans they'd have to get jobs.

That being said, it doesn't mean that the bands have to bow to every wish the fans have. What they really owe their fans is quality albums and shows that make the fans feel like they are getting their money's worth. TOOL has thus far fulfilled their obligation.

[Dharma Bear]

What they really owe their fans is quality albums and shows that make the fans feel like they are getting their money's worth.

I agree with this. If I spend 50 bucks to see Tool, I want it to be something to remember. I would be pissed if they had a short set with no stage effects, and their overall performance was terrible. In which case I would feel that I deserve my money back.

Thankfully, this is very unlikely.

[waffel]

All bands owe their fans something, because without the fans they'd have to get jobs.

!

[LetGoLetgoLetGo]

Paz is hot.
She owes me sex.
EDIT: Hate to be lame (I was born that way), but this was my 69th post and I think it is fitting that I want sexual favors.

[Wretched]

Paz is hot.
She owes me sex.
EDIT: Hate to be lame (I was born that way), but this was my 69th post and I think it is fitting that I want sexual favors.

Now you should stop posting and leave it at 69 forever.

[Boozy Eulogist]

For the record, she does rock the sack.

[LoKi]

im going to show up at coachella, hide in the crowd, and shine a high powered laser pointer at maynards face while he is trying to sing


i laughed so hard at this, please do it.

[paraflux]

yeah that's a really great idea! Piss him off so that he walks offstage like he did when I saw them during The Patient when that happened.

[Dredg]

!


the question becomes what they owe us. Most of these fans said they owe us music - nothing more nothing less.

[Boozy Eulogist]

Anything involving laser pointers other than shooting people in the face from far away is immature and lame. As a long time concert goer and roadie, fans like that are a great annoyance.

You should have seen when a fan threw a beer bottle at Pigmy Love Circus. How about you try your luck laser pointing them?

[Fulcanelli]

I was a a Metallica concert many years ago where this guy threw a bottle and hit James Hetfield in the head. The guy that threw the bottle took quite the beating and wound up in the hospital. Fun stuff.

[dracomordag]

Tool fans are fiercely loyal to the cause, if maynard is involved the fans usually are somewhere near. We have waited 5 years and had to live threw 2 APC albums, the last of which is an atrocity. We have had to put up with the introvert-pseudo-philanthropist bullshit from countless virgin APC fans and tolerate that bitch Paz Lechintetnan and Billy Howerdel 's bulbling attempts at being Justin CHancellor and Adam jones, respectively. ( their drummer is pretty good tho )

WE HAVE TOLERATED ENOUGH.

And then they embargo reviews?

This new album better be fucking good.

except Thirteenth Step kicked absolute ass...



edit: felt i should expand on this after reading the thread...

as others have said, comparing Tool to APC is bullshit. APC is like, 1/20th of Tool (not in quality, in connection). For those who don't get the math, lemme lay it out:

Tool = Danny + Justin + Adam + Maynard
APC = Billy + Jeordie + Freese + James + Maynard

so, that means that 1/4 of Tool makes up 1/5th of APC. Hardly the same band.


I know, the singer is essentially the "frontman" of the group, so he lends a little more identity, but still. There music isn't that similar, despite being in a similar genre.

[Ertai]

i enjoy some of billys guitar work... mainly the stuff off 13th step

i like the B/E tuning, but he doesnt come close to the way that adam expresses in his music.

[2and46]

What do you mean by "they owe us"? If they never recorded another note, they have paid us quite nicely. Although I would love more product, the length of time builds anticipation. The embargo is a guarded measure against over-saturation. One of the primary reasons they are so revered is their mysteriousness, but its not a strategy. It's quite honest, and that's why when even other great bands speak of Tool, they speak of them like a monolith of integrity. They don't "owe" you anything. If anything YOU owe THEM at the very least your respect.

[Staticfactory]

Ok, I think Josh is a great drummer, and I completely agree with you. But this "he is the most successful session player today" is woefully ignorant. Clearly you've never heard of guys like Kenny Aronoff, Terry Bozzio, etc.

Freese is great, but seriously. Before you make blanket statements like that, you should make sure you really know what you're talking about. There are very very very few drummers in popular rock bands that can actually rank up there with the true best session and freelance artists in the world. Danny is one of the only ones.

Freese is a modern drummer with an incredibly diverse catalog of work - no doubt there. I'm too lazy to dig back in the thread and quote the person that mentioned how studio drummers approach their work, but they were correct.

Studio drummers are called on to get in, bang it out right the first time, grab their bag of money and leave. Artists like Garth Brooks, John Fogerty, Paul Simon (etc.) don't hire a drummer to come in and steal the show. They hire a drummer with solid chops, solid credentials and solid ethic to lay down solid tracks. Sadly, guys like Aronoff, Gadd, Donati and Bozzio are the best session drummers of "yesterday." Bozzio is still one of best the world has to offer, mind you.... I don't even know if I would put him in the "studio drummer" bucket. The studio now belongs to the Josh Freese's and Matt Chamberlain's of the world - at least as far as modern music is concerned.

Those who say "Josh Freese is a shitty drummer" should try making a name for themselves like he has. It doesn't simply get handed to you.

[TenSpeed]

Those who say "Josh Freese is a shitty drummer" should try making a name for themselves like he has. It doesn't simply get handed to you.
The Meathead NIN cartoons also helped make his name :P

[dracomordag]

Musicians owe you near nothing. What you as a consumer pay them for is making their product better. When an unsigned band plays some live shows, they are making music for the fun of it. Tool, if they did not get a record deal, would probably be doing the same thing. It is not your money that makes them make music, although it is an incentive. They make music because they love it.

What you, as a consumer of the product, have done is give them money so that they can live more comfortable lives and put some of that money back into the music making process, hopefully helping them create higher quality music.

To use dredg's point of Johnson and Johnson, Johnson and Johnson actually owes the consumer nothing. If they stopped making shampoo, could you stop them? Could you bitch and whine and demand that they start making their no-tears formula again? No. If you were a shareholder, then you would get some compensation (possibly), but otherwise jack shit goes to you.

[EulogyCallinMe]

The emotive CD for the most part i didn't care for at all.

personally i liked the 13th step less than eMotive. the sound on the album was too repetitive of course it had its stand out songs, but for me listening to it the whole way through wasn't very enjoyable. Especially after the two heavy songs they put in their own version of bizarre segues. Mer de Noms was BRILLIANT though, so i think anyway, there isnt a moment of that cd i dont like. i would kind of like to hear a studio version of the way they played 'Over' live or at least a clear live one.

[a788]

oh, elepht....

they don't owe us anything....

[praefector]

i can't say i wouldn't appreciate a little more openness and willingness to share information ...

but they certainly don't "owe" the fans anything.

it is, however, a bit disheartening that they're threatening lawsuits for people who just want to share information. i understand it's their art and they should decide when it is made public. it just seems a little harsh and is ringing the "sellout" bell a little more than i'd prefer.

[LP|Stang]

Paz is not good looking.

[eulogy508]

Tool fans are fiercely loyal to the cause, if maynard is involved the fans usually are somewhere near. We have waited 5 years and had to live threw 2 APC albums, the last of which is an atrocity. We have had to put up with the introvert-pseudo-philanthropist bullshit from countless virgin APC fans and tolerate that bitch Paz Lechintetnan and Billy Howerdel 's bulbling attempts at being Justin CHancellor and Adam jones, respectively. ( their drummer is pretty good tho )

WE HAVE TOLERATED ENOUGH.

And then they embargo reviews?

This new album better be fucking good.
Die

[Naga Royal Guard]

your stupid avatar can die

fools dont even know the time of day i bet, this is the twenty fuckin first century; somebody owns you; Tool's Fans OWN tool, we GAVE tool their credibility, we are THE REASON why they sell all their venues in seconds, we GIVE them the authority to put that worthless Blair to be webmaster, we still BUY fucking APC albums ONLY BECAUSE MAYNARD SINGS IN THEM, we ALLOW danny to barbeque at the studio when they SHOULD be finish OUR fucking ALBUM

TOOL is nothing with out US, their FANS; we can find another more talented band if they dont serve US accordingly

that ladies and gentlemen is why THEY OWE US

[eulogy508]

your stupid avatar can die

fools dont even know the time of day i bet, this is the twenty fuckin first century; somebody owns you; Tool's Fans OWN tool, we GAVE tool their credibility, we are THE REASON why they sell all their venues in seconds, we GIVE them the authority to put that worthless Blair to be webmaster, we still BUY fucking APC albums ONLY BECAUSE MAYNARD SINGS IN THEM, we ALLOW danny do barbeque at the studio when they SHOULD be finish OUR fucking ALBUM

TOOL is nothing with out US, their FANS; we can find another more talented band if they dont serve US accordingly

that ladies and gentlemen is why THEY OWE US

You win

[praefector]

your stupid avatar can die

fools dont even know the time of day i bet, this is the twenty fuckin first century; somebody owns you; Tool's Fans OWN tool, we GAVE tool their credibility, we are THE REASON why they sell all their venues in seconds, we GIVE them the authority to put that worthless Blair to be webmaster, we still BUY fucking APC albums ONLY BECAUSE MAYNARD SINGS IN THEM, we ALLOW danny to barbeque at the studio when they SHOULD be finish OUR fucking ALBUM

TOOL is nothing with out US, their FANS; we can find another more talented band if they dont serve US accordingly

that ladies and gentlemen is why THEY OWE US

something tells me eating glass might be more productive than trying to tell tool what they owe their fans...

justa guess though.

[noisetherapy]

your stupid avatar can die

fools dont even know the time of day i bet, this is the twenty fuckin first century; somebody owns you; Tool's Fans OWN tool, we GAVE tool their credibility, we are THE REASON why they sell all their venues in seconds, we GIVE them the authority to put that worthless Blair to be webmaster, we still BUY fucking APC albums ONLY BECAUSE MAYNARD SINGS IN THEM, we ALLOW danny to barbeque at the studio when they SHOULD be finish OUR fucking ALBUM

TOOL is nothing with out US, their FANS; we can find another more talented band if they dont serve US accordingly

that ladies and gentlemen is why THEY OWE US


i agree with you that tool wouldnt be anywhere with fans. its a fact. a band needs fans to make money. without us, they get nothing but respect from their friends. i believe they dont owe me anything, ill still listen cause i enjoy the amount of effort poured into 79 mins.

but to say that we only listen to apc because of maynard is pretty niave.
maybe thats for you. but i could tell you a dozen people that prefer APC to tool (not me) its kind of like saying people only watched american history x to see edward norton act. they most likely watched it cause its known as a great movie. enough said right there elepht.

[dracomordag]

your stupid avatar can die

fools dont even know the time of day i bet, this is the twenty fuckin first century; somebody owns you; Tool's Fans OWN tool, we GAVE tool their credibility, we are THE REASON why they sell all their venues in seconds, we GIVE them the authority to put that worthless Blair to be webmaster, we still BUY fucking APC albums ONLY BECAUSE MAYNARD SINGS IN THEM, we ALLOW danny to barbeque at the studio when they SHOULD be finish OUR fucking ALBUM

TOOL is nothing with out US, their FANS; we can find another more talented band if they dont serve US accordingly

that ladies and gentlemen is why THEY OWE US


so you're telling me they only make music because we pay them money? I'm sure they would make music whether or not they had a rabid fan base. They would just have side jobs to support themselves instead of devoting it all to the music.

We pay them, essentially, so they can dedicate all of their time to making better music.

Read my post above.

[dracomordag]

but to say that we only listen to apc because of maynard is pretty niave. maybe thats for you. but i could tell you a dozen people that prefer APC to tool (not me) its kind of like saying people only watched american history x to see edward norton act. they most likely watched it cause its known as a great movie. enough said right there elepht.

I agree. I got into APC without even knowing it was Maynard singing. Their music just straight up kicks ass... hate to break it to you.

I mean, it's aight that APC isn't your cup of tea, but to presume that the rest of us only follow your opinion is kind of close-minded.

[Dredg]

your stupid avatar can die

fools dont even know the time of day i bet, this is the twenty fuckin first century; somebody owns you; Tool's Fans OWN tool, we GAVE tool their credibility, we are THE REASON why they sell all their venues in seconds, we GIVE them the authority to put that worthless Blair to be webmaster, we still BUY fucking APC albums ONLY BECAUSE MAYNARD SINGS IN THEM, we ALLOW danny to barbeque at the studio when they SHOULD be finish OUR fucking ALBUM

TOOL is nothing with out US, their FANS; we can find another more talented band if they dont serve US accordingly

that ladies and gentlemen is why THEY OWE US

you are an idiot, you did not read my post. What a waste of time.

You proved yourself wrong.

The musicians of the band Tool owe the consumer a product called music. Do you have a hard time understanding this? Is Tool not giving the consumer a product? Are they not coming out with a new album in 2 months?

wait...are you mentally retard?

[dracomordag]

you are an idiot, you did not read my post. What a waste of time.

You proved yourself wrong.

The musicians of the band Tool owe the consumer a product called music. Do you have a hard time understanding this? Is Tool not giving the consumer a product? Are they not coming out with a new album in 2 months?

wait...are you mentally retard?

did you read my post? that a producer of a product has no obligation to the consumer... the consumer is the one who chooses what product to purchase. It's a consumer market. We paid Tool to provide us with entertainment. Other than that relationship, they owe us nothing and we owe them nothing.

[Naga Royal Guard]

knock it off and get back on topic

[snakeeyedhawk]

No, actually, Tool doesn't really 'owe' their fans anything. That's complete bullshit.

[dracomordag]

knock it off and get back on topic

i hope you weren' t talking to me, because my post was exactly on topic...

[varg]

I fucking hate Josh Freese. He is not a good drummer at all and he drums on fucking EVERYTHING. Seriously, when you think of josh freese, you think of hi-hat and snare, that's it. He never does anything interesting at all.

When I think of Josh Freese, I think of a mohawk and a pink rugby shirt.

[varg]

And btw, "owe"?
Who owes what to whom?
Bullshit detector on, please.

[khemystri]

TOOL is nothing with out US, their FANS; we can find another more talented band if they dont serve US accordingly

Maroon 5????? ;)

[paraflux]

I gotta say, elepth, you are way overboard. they dont owe us anything, we do pay them to keep making it, we are the ones who want it, and I wouldnt ask for a lesser product and lesser experience just so I could have it on my terms. Let it be on their terms, however eccentric or silly those terms are. It's the only way that a product can be perfect.

[Kalamazoo]

tool owes me a blowjob

[Dharma Bear]

Tool's Fans OWN tool, we GAVE tool their credibility, we are THE REASON why they sell all their venues in seconds, we GIVE them the authority to put that worthless Blair to be webmaster, we still BUY fucking APC albums ONLY BECAUSE MAYNARD SINGS IN THEM, we ALLOW danny to barbeque at the studio when they SHOULD be finish OUR fucking ALBUM

TOOL is nothing with out US, their FANS; we can find another more talented band if they dont serve US accordingly


I agree in terms of the Band being nothing without the fans supporting them. True be that, but I feel your making this a little personal.

They don't "owe" us for this reason: The music industry is a buisness. They supply us with a service that we are willing to pay them for. We want good music, and they make good music and sell it to us. If you don't like their service, then don't give them money. Its just artistic capitalism, simply that.

Do you feel McDonalds owes you for never coming out with a decent burger?

[STA]

Maynard owes me the $20 I wasted on eMotive.

[Kalamazoo]

you fell for that crap? nice work, corporate whore

[STA]

you fell for that crap? nice work, corporate whore

Yep.

[Kalamazoo]

lolx1000

[eulogy508]

lolx100000