WHAT THE HELL IS THIS! Champion sets it STRAIGHT!

[champion]

Honestly, you people call yourself Tool fans, but are not.

This Andy King situation has pitted people completely against the band. What for? Simply for withholding information? Listen, let me list some stuff off.

1. There probably IS no title yet. I don't get it. They have the right to take all the time they want on choosing the title that best represents the album, and if they don't have one yet, fine with me!

2. They with-hold information from the media not because they don't want their fans to have information. They don't want the media to take their spin on the album, and, most of all, they don't want the album leaking out before they're ready to announce details themselves. I'd try to do the same thing.

I think it's great what Tool is doing. We're spoiled from the internet, and they have seriously managed to find a way around bands having their albums leaked, reviewed, and completely out of the mystery four months before it's official release. What Tool is doing is making a statement against the media. They're saying "give us enough time, and we will announce information when we see fit," rather than the media announcing it for them, in probably a way the band would react to negatively. They have the right to introduce their own work. It's how it used to be done, and I'm glad they're continuing on this route. I'm sure the band expected it's fanbase to trust their motives and side with them, but everyone seems to be so manipulated with one tiny piece of information.

JUST WAIT. I'm sure once Tool gets back from their promo tour (April), we'll have all the details, and when the album is released, the best rock band living will enlighten us again in so many ways. Don't you guys have a relationship with these guys? Lateralus changed my life, and changed the way I viewed music. They can do whatever the fuck they want with this new CD. I'll wait.

[kyyuulle]

i'm gonna have to agree with you that they are doing a good thing by keeping the media in the dark with specifics

well put

[The Village Too]

Man, it doesn't matter what Tool is doing. People are bitching cuz people will always bitch. There'd be just as much of that if they had released the album name. I'd love em both ways, I just want them to get the damn thing out already. Even if Bob King's review is phony it super-rekindled my excitement for another MOTHERFUCKING TOOL ALBUM HOLY SHIT. I haven't felt this way since I first discovered this magical band.

[paraflux]

Agreed, people are letting their hysteria get a little out of control.

[Andorion]

champion is Tool's new spokesperson.

[kyyuulle]

BMB who?

CHAMPEEEEEN!

[champion]

To be honest, it hurts me that so many people are turning their backs on the band just because they're taking a long time.

[paraflux]

Are people, really? Who?

[Alistair_Carson]

I haven't felt this way since I first discovered this magical band.


I second that.

[kyyuulle]

people aren't turning their back, they're just frustrated, you know when a real piece of news comes around, they'll eat it up.

[Noob_Jones]

I tend to believe the band wants people to approach the album with an open and un-tainted mind. When I say untainted I mean not influenced by anyone elses views on the album. It has taken them a long time and with no doubt great effort to create this and I am sure they only wish everyone will have an optimum first listen. They want you to take away your own meaning from the songs and that is hard to do if others have told you what to think of the music before you get a chance to hear it.

They create art and it is in their discretion to decide how to deliver said art.

[Psychedelic]

Well said sir.....
and who know maybe they'll release it sooner than anyone expects.

[Goldfoot]

What about...................
you know, if you guys would just ask me, i'd tell you why.

last time around (salival in 2000 and lateralus in 2001), as soon as titles were released, domain names for each title/track name were registered, and a lot of fake merch sites suddenly went live, and a lot of people (according to mjk) got ripped off.

the band doesn't want that to happen again; in fact, they expect to register domains for all new songs and have them point to toolband.

also last time, the album leaked onto the net about a week before release. it was disheartening for the band, and they're hopeful it won't happen again.

[champion]

Pretty much.

And I think frustration, impatience, and bad-mouthing is a form of turning your back.

[Hogpile]

Honestly, you people call yourself Tool fans, but are not.
.

I think if you really sit down and think about it, this statement is out of line. I don't really know what a 'true fan' is anyway. How many shows, t-shirts, and copies of an album do you have to attend/own before you reach 'true fan status'?

Think about it man. Most of the people getting hystarical about the new album are kids. And that's what kids do. It's the TDN equivilent of "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? I'm hungry. When can we stop? Are we there yet? I have to pee."

Being self righteous about it doesn't change anything. And frankly, I'm suprised that you're suprised with all this hype about the new disc.

[Noob_Jones]

Is the music here yet? Is the music here yet?

[Hannibal]

I agree with Champion. I'm amazed at how quickly people are slamming the band just for keeping things private. I'm not going to be disappointed in the album anyway, because I believe that its open for interpretation and judgment cannot be passed by a simple "preview."

three cheers for champion, even though i mentioned the same thing in another thread. But no one really pays attention to me....sniff*

[kyyuulle]

no.

[Starfish]

if this whole king incident is legit, thatn the label, thus the management and thus the band are utter assholes. end of story.
shove your tool-religion up your ass and die.

[symbiosis]

I'm just trying to fit in with the rest of the tool fans... I really don't hate tool and co.



It's just pre-album bullshit... most of the people that are mouthing off are just fucking stupid.

[champion]

I think if you really sit down and think about it, this statement is out of line. I don't really know what a 'true fan' is anyway. How many shows, t-shirts, and copies of an album do you have to attend/own before you reach 'true fan status'?

Think about it man. Most of the people getting hystarical about the new album are kids. And that's what kids do. It's the TDN equivilent of "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? I'm hungry. When can we stop? Are we there yet? I have to pee."

Being self righteous about it doesn't change anything. And frankly, I'm suprised that you're suprised with all this hype about the new disc.

I don't know how old these people are. The hype didn't surprise me until NOW. This Andy King situation happened and people are making posts left and right about how this is bullshit for the band to do.

I think there is a definition of a true fan. A true fan has nothing to do with money, and it has everything to do with commitment. Somebody who doesn't give the band the benefit of the doubt obviously doesn't care about what they do as people.

[eddie75]

Really it's just a byproduct that happens when information that is so highly sought after is kept secret. It's not a big deal and will blow over. Once the album is released no one will remember this crap.

[TurdEye13]

I agree wholeheartedly

[champion]

It's not about that.

What the hell are people so worked up about? Stop making threads with one post every two seconds about how the band is gay for not releasing the album title yet. It's just common sense and patience. Believe in the band.

You would think people have forgotten or lost that Tool is a transcendent band, and a wonderful one.

[Starfish]

Somebody who doesn't give the band the benefit of the doubt obviously doesn't care about what they do as people.

you bet. why would i care about some fancy pants pretentious pop star fucker?

[Ktuluvic]

With the exception of the first sentence like hogpile pointed out, you are dead on champion. I now know why you have the user name you do. We don't know how much or if any of this Andy King crap went down. One thing's for sure, we all know his name and that shitty rock station he works for now. I'm just waiting for that new album, and at least this has provided some excitement in the last few days. I doubt we'll ever know what really went on here. But don't take the words of one side as the whole truth. Considering what tool has given to the world and what comparativly little mr. king has given to the world, I'm siding with tool on this one.

[eddie75]

What does it matter? People have become impatient, it's not a big deal. It happens when a band of this caliber takes this long to release an album and is this secretive. Some people just react negatively to that type of situation, it's not a big deal.

[champion]

you bet. why would i care about some fancy pants pretentious pop star fucker?

You should probably get out of this thread.

[Ktuluvic]

You should probably get out of life

fixed.

[champion]

What does it matter? People have become impatient, it's not a big deal. It happens when a band of this caliber takes this long to release an album and is this secretive. Some people just react negatively to that type of situation, it's not a big deal.

I'm just saying that they shouldn't act negatively. It's best to be aware and accepting of the way things are, and becoming impatient and cold toward the band for simply taking their time on what will surely be one of the greatest bodies of music we'll all ever hear is childish.

I have developed complete trust in this band, and it's alarming how many people are just jumping along for the bandwagon ride, bad-mouthing the band because it's February and there's no album title yet. I think it's about time a popular band found a way to work completely around the media.

[nchristus]

Thanks for setting it straight, man.

I'm sure that some of the people who are complaining about the lack of information currently available have praised the band in the past for their attempt to maintain complete creative control of their art.

There is no way that by trying to control the release of information that the band are alienating fans or detracting from album sales. They are doing it the way they want, the way they always have.

[Spoon]

The new album is called "Thank you, Mr. King"

[mike tyson]

Well said Champion. Nothing further to add.

[Fulcanelli]

I'd just like to add that in the Andy King review, he even mentions that the songs were in their near final arrangement. That tells me that the new album wasn't really up for review yet. I still don't understand what the point of a listening promo tour is but it does seem like there are some finishing touches to be made. Who knows, the album title may still be up for debate amongst the band members.

[Hogpile]

I think there is a definition of a true fan. A true fan has nothing to do with money, and it has everything to do with commitment. Somebody who doesn't give the band the benefit of the doubt obviously doesn't care about what they do as people.

I dunno, I guess I'm not a true fan of Tool then. I love their music, sure. Are they the best band in the world to me? Not even close. Sure I'm stoked like anyone else about the upcoming disc, but I'm not really 'shit my pants with excitement' giddy over the new album coming soon. I guess I feel like good things come to those that wait, and even though every Tool release is far apart from the last, I think that in the end, it's all well worth it.

Again, I like Tool's music. Do I care about them as people though? Not really. I find the characters within the band that I've been presented with interesting, but I don't know any of them personally. I would say that I care as much about them on a personal level that they care about me.

Then again, I see what you're saying. I'm not bitching about shit, or whining, or speculating that much about the whole thing. I'm content to wait. I can see how certain shit is annoying you, but like I said, the whole hype doesn't suprise me one bit. You think this is bad, wait until the album actually hits shelves, and this place gets slammed even more.

[Goldfoot]

You think this is bad, wait until the album actually hits shelves, and this place gets slammed even more.

Once the listing and date are revealed it's gonna get really bad. REall, it's just gonna continually get worse starting last month.

[Spoon]

My thoughts - this is all going how Tool planned. Honestly, how can anyone get past the concept of having a promo-tour and inviting members of the press, expecting them to not report on the album? Why not invite random people, fans, hobos, anyone but the press. For christ's sake it's their job and hence what they expected by Tool's invitation.

So buddy publishes a review, consider the following:
*Buddy and his station are in on it
*Tool planned this out (why were there no other published thoughts?)
*Did this event even take place?
*As others have pointed out - EVERYONE benefits from this, fans get info, tool gets press, buddy gets press, etc. etc.
*Why the hell would you invite the press and expect no reporting?? That's like leaving a box of steaks with your dog while you go to the park and expecting the box to be as it was when you left.
*Decoy album?
*Blair expected 'leaks' this time of the month

Honestly, this event seems so strange and I am so skeptical that I just don't get it. It is entirely irrational to think that the press wouldn't report on the album, which makes me thing the whole thing was staged and it's all just more hype for the album - the track times, names, descriptions, etc, it could all be fake and orchestrated by the band themselves. No post from BMB on Toolband suggests they're all just sitting back living it up enjoying how their ploy is playing out, and I for one congratulate them. It sure has been fun to watch on this board...

Anyway, that's my thoughts. It changes nothing, I'm excited for the album, and it comes out when it comes out.

[Attila]

I agree with champion. I give the band credit for keeping everything this secret. It's not easy to do. I think that even if Tool is somehow behind this whole Andy King deal, we will laugh our asses off about it when the new album is out. I don't think they are being dicks. They are doing what is right for everyone, and adding in a little bit of humor along the way doesn't hurt.

[LetGoLetgoLetGo]

Nicely put Champ. But Im still jonesin' for TOOL like a crackhead in withdrawl

[snakeeyedhawk]

It confounds me why people would stop listening to such wonderful music over something so simple yet misunderstood like this.

[Goldfoot]

Nicely put Champ. But Im still jonesin' for TOOL like a crackhead in withdrawl

Who woulda thought?

[freqlink]

Originally quoted by Champion

"Honestly, you people call yourself Tool fans, but are not.
This Andy King situation has pitted people completely against the band. What for? Simply for withholding information? Listen, let me list some stuff off."


My reply is this:

It is terribly sad that people would profess to being true Tool fans, when by their actions of disgust and total impatience, they show their true colors. Anyone that has followed the band should understand there goal is not to follow the crowd, like every other pathetic, give-me-a-record-deal band.
Has Tool ever been one to give the media driven public what they want, until the band is good and ready? That is part of the beauty of Tool, it's not just their music that provides lessons, but the fact that they make their own choices in regards to what is given to the public. The mystery of the band is what many people find intriguing, and if so-called silver-spoon-in-their-mouth fans are upset by not getting everything they want when they want it, then they have a long way to go before realizing the true essence of Tool.
If you are upset because you don't know everything that is going on with the band, then deal with it. You are not going to know everything until those four talented musicians whom we respect decide you need to know. Be happy to know that there is a new album coming out now, and not another 5 years down the road.
Oh and by the way, I would venture to say that this album quite possibly could be the last from Tool. An appropriate "walk off".

[Khadgar346]

well said Champ. I agree with you 100%

[LetGoLetgoLetGo]

It confounds me why people would stop listening to such wonderful music over something so simple yet misunderstood like this.

Ill second that. I had an ex ask me which was more important to me....her or TOOL. Needless to say, that relationship didnt last too long.
Lateralus changed me and my life. My outlook on things has changed. The way I treat people has changed. And the way I deal with everyday BS has changed. All for the better. And Ive never had a girl do that for me.....well, once. And thats over, so it doesnt count.

[Hogpile]

freqlink, just so you know:

You can reply with someone's actual quote by clicking the reply with quote prompt on the bottom right hand of anyone's post, including your own. You can then delete everything not relevent to the reply you are making. This saves you some typing, and also makes it easier to recognize when you are quoting someone. Just a suggestion.

Welcome to TDN.

[freqlink]

freqlink, just so you know:

You can reply with someone's actual quote ....

Yeah I am new here, and just didnt see the quote tags before I deleted everything irrelevant. Won't happen again. Thanks

[Hogpile]

Won't happen again. Thanks

Wasn't ragging you man, just thought you didn't know, and was trying to help you out. I didn't see em when I was new here. Heh.

You're welcome.

[Boozy Eulogist]

Ocean Madness

[Prometheus]

/\
Nice av..
and yes, I agree with Champion and whoever else made a half-decent post.

[millermt]

Okay, Tool is definitely, far and away, my favorite band. I fully respect their right to have full creative control over the art they create. Here is the problem though: They are trying to have things both ways. They obviously want to use the media to get word out about their new album, but then they want to tell the media how to do it. Listen to this kickass new album, but don't say anything about it yet. We'll tell you when it's okay to talk about it. They should either put it out there for the media they invite to discuss, or they should not get the media involved. They will involve the media because they want to make money off their work. So they shouldn't get pissed when when information leaks they told us were coming actually do show up.

[Ertai]

Ill second that. I had an ex ask me which was more important to me....her or TOOL. Needless to say, that relationship didnt last too long.
Lateralus changed me and my life. My outlook on things has changed. The way I treat people has changed. And the way I deal with everyday BS has changed. All for the better. And Ive never had a girl do that for me.....well, once. And thats over, so it doesnt count.

i feel ya bro...






i know quoting lyrics may sound corny... but


"gotta wait it out.....



be patient..."


some people just never learn....

im not gonna read any reviews before or after the album is released... im gonna give it time to sink in with myself, along with my own personal interpetation of what it all means.. rather then to be on the fourms the day the album is released, just to try and be one of the first to decipher the "true" meaning of the album.

[Dogzilla]

Oh and by the way, I would venture to say that this album quite possibly could be the last from Tool. An appropriate "walk off".

This is driving me crazy. People keep saying this, and from what I can see, there's no basis whatsoever for such a statement.

So, I'll pose the question again (as I did in another thread 'round here somewhere)...

Why? Why do you think this could be the last Tool album?

[Goldfoot]

"gotta wait it out.....



be patient..."

I can do the same thing.

"I'm tired of waiting."

That being said, I'm not upset at the band for anything that has happened.

[Chris_Brightwell]

Why? Why do you think this could be the last Tool album?The only indication I can find is that they're, "getting old." If you were to plot time between releases to guess when we'd see the next Tool album, it would be roughly 2011, and the band members will all be in their mid- to late-40s.

Of course, this doesn't really mean anything. There are plenty of bands that continue to rock in their old age.

[LetGoLetgoLetGo]

I think that when they do release their "last album", that information will be known either with or before the release. Just a thought.

[Hogpile]

......that information will be known either with or before the release. Just a thought.

That doesn't sound very Tool like.

[Goldfoot]

I think that when they do release their "last album", that information will be known either with or before the release. Just a thought.

Nah, in three or four years after they've toured and maybe do a side project or ten they might just not want to be Tool anymore.

[adda da suh]

I believe that all the commotion, reviews leaking, and anger towards the band for not hurrying up and releasing their album, can only hinder the bands will to create more music. If it becomes too difficult to be Tool and they feel that no matter what they try and do it backfires, then they may not want to do it anymore. I do not know the band but I know that If I were in their shoes, all of this madness would get old quick. I would love to have the album released already, but I am sure there is a good reason for whats happening.

[orange.juice]

we need more cookies.

[adda da suh]

I'd just like to add that in the Andy King review, he even mentions that the songs were in their near final arrangement. That tells me that the new album wasn't really up for review yet. I still don't understand what the point of a listening promo tour is but it does seem like there are some finishing touches to be made. Who knows, the album title may still be up for debate amongst the band members.
I think he meant the track order, not the songs themselves .

[Fulcanelli]

I think he meant the track order, not the songs themselves .

That's what I meant... I wasn't being too clear.

[adda da suh]

That's what I meant... I wasn't being too clear.
got it.

[fortysix_and_tool]

this is all going how Tool planned.

LOL

This is just the hook to reel us in for the April Fools joke this year.
Sorry, no new album, we changed our minds. Turn your TV's back on!! : P

[Staticfactory]

As much as I would love to just throw my fist in the air and get on the "true fanboy" bandwagon, there is still more that needs to be said.

Tool is a Band. They make music. This is their product. You purchase this music. You are a consumer.

Although most of this "true fan" talk is quite romantic, they are not your family, your friend or your teacher. Being a "true fan" of a band is really no different than being a "true fan" of a running shoe company.

I'm sorry if that thought is difficult to come to terms with, but I assure you, this is the truth.

Now, I love Tool's product. Hell, I think it's some of the best shit money can buy! This doesn't mean that I don't have the right to express my discontent regarding how they go about promoting their product. This doesn't mean that I can't crave their product. I have the right to my opinion, as a consumer. This is how industry works.

Being a "true fan", as I'm reading it in this thread, is just some strange pipe dream where it somehow matters what YOU think. Being a 'true fan' is just a nice way of saying that you are fully subscribed to this product (to the point where you defend it as if you're on the payroll.) If you must live in that dream, all the power to you. I think Tool is simply taking advantage of their market and exploiting it's weakness in order to create a larger and larger awareness of their product. It's human nature to want what you can't have, especially when it's something so simple (like a track list.) Brilliant. The fever is catching.

Maybe they'll thank all of their 'true fans' as soon as it goes platinum.

One last note...

Nobody can tell you to think for yourself without it being a complete contradiction.

[grime_z]

Hell ya for that Champion. I am in 100% agreement.

[Wretched]

Atleast I took this opportunity to be an asshole. I've never turned my back on the band or thought I had any reason to be an asshole about how long its taken. Sure I'd love to have it now, but it's fun waiting.

[Ktuluvic]

This is probably the most fun I've ever had waiting for an album. It's far more entertaining than any other album wait I've experienced. Most other bands go along the lines of "news of a new album, wait for it to drop, go buy it".

[Fulcanelli]

As much as I would love to just throw my fist in the air and get on the "true fanboy" bandwagon, there is still more that needs to be said.

Tool is a Band. They make music. This is their product. You purchase this music. You are a consumer.

Although most of this "true fan" talk is quite romantic, they are not your family, your friend or your teacher. Being a "true fan" of a band is really no different than being a "true fan" of a running shoe company.

I'm sorry if that thought is difficult to come to terms with, but I assure you, this is the truth.

Now, I love Tool's product. Hell, I think it's some of the best shit money can buy! This doesn't mean that I don't have the right to express my discontent regarding how they go about promoting their product. This doesn't mean that I can't crave their product. I have the right to my opinion, as a consumer. This is how industry works.

Being a "true fan", as I'm reading it in this thread, is just some strange pipe dream where it somehow matters what YOU think. Being a 'true fan' is just a nice way of saying that you are fully subscribed to this product (to the point where you defend it as if you're on the payroll.) If you must live in that dream, all the power to you. I think Tool is simply taking advantage of their market and exploiting it's weakness in order to create a larger and larger awareness of their product. It's human nature to want what you can't have, especially when it's something so simple (like a track list.) Brilliant. The fever is catching.

Maybe they'll thank all of their 'true fans' as soon as it goes platinum.

One last note...

Nobody can tell you to think for yourself without it being a complete contradiction.

Spoken like a true capitalist! :) Some people like their art a lot, there is a difference. Unfortunately, we all have to pay in order to get it but that's the way of the world.

According to you, even their message is bullshit. Well, I suppose that applies to every artist, philosopher, and even scientist that ever lived. Think for yourself... wait... Tool told me to think for myself... then they are controlling me!!!! Ahhhh!!!!

Anyway, no-one should be told to think for themselves but it's often required to remind people. By having them say that, you have the freedom to think for yourself and not buy the new Tool CD.

[dracomordag]

I do think it was a little overreacting what they did with the King incident, but they still do have the right to control the release of their album info.

[NoD]

Honestly, you people call yourself Tool fans, but are not.

This Andy King situation has pitted people completely against the band. What for? Simply for withholding information? Listen, let me list some stuff off.

1. There probably IS no title yet. I don't get it. They have the right to take all the time they want on choosing the title that best represents the album, and if they don't have one yet, fine with me!

2. They with-hold information from the media not because they don't want their fans to have information. They don't want the media to take their spin on the album, and, most of all, they don't want the album leaking out before they're ready to announce details themselves. I'd try to do the same thing.

I think it's great what Tool is doing. We're spoiled from the internet, and they have seriously managed to find a way around bands having their albums leaked, reviewed, and completely out of the mystery four months before it's official release. What Tool is doing is making a statement against the media. They're saying "give us enough time, and we will announce information when we see fit," rather than the media announcing it for them, in probably a way the band would react to negatively. They have the right to introduce their own work. It's how it used to be done, and I'm glad they're continuing on this route. I'm sure the band expected it's fanbase to trust their motives and side with them, but everyone seems to be so manipulated with one tiny piece of information.

JUST WAIT. I'm sure once Tool gets back from their promo tour (April), we'll have all the details, and when the album is released, the best rock band living will enlighten us again in so many ways. Don't you guys have a relationship with these guys? Lateralus changed my life, and changed the way I viewed music. They can do whatever the fuck they want with this new CD. I'll wait.


very well said. It's embarrasing sometimes to just browse through here and read so many whiny pussy posts from guys acting like children who are pissed they can't open their xmas presents early. It's pathetic.

[moneyisevil]

just because a cd "changed" your life doesnt mean that people have the right to walk all over you...hence what they did to Andy...just made an example out of him and bullied him around for no reason...i for one am not going to enouraged this kind of conduct...tell me why such an established band has to pick on one UK DJ? Seriously. Why? The answer is they don't. I am ashamed and embarrassed at how TOOL treats their fans sometimes. And i say enough is enough. Stop eating out of their palms, and say fuck you TOOL, stop bullying people around.

I say if they think this album is so fucken special then why didnt they just give it to families/friends instead of releasing it to the public? Oh wait, they care about the mighty-dollar...which true artists only care about.

[Fulcanelli]

just because a cd "changed" your life doesnt mean that people have the right to walk all over you...hence what they did to Andy...just made an example out of him and bullied him around for no reason...i for one am not going to enouraged this kind of conduct...tell me why such an established band has to pick on one UK DJ? Seriously. Why? The answer is they don't. I am ashamed and embarrassed at how TOOL treats their fans sometimes. And i say enough is enough. Stop eating out of their palms, and say fuck you TOOL, stop bullying people around.

I say if they think this album is so fucken special then why didnt they just give it to families/friends instead of releasing it to the public? Oh wait, they care about the mighty-dollar...which true artists only care about.

I asked you in another thread if you were offened seriously about the Andy King thing and I think I've been answered by this post.

If it's true then you only know one side of the story. For all you know Andy King missed the "embargo" announcement or just simply ignored it. Maybe it was an honest mistake and maybe not. Either way, Tool do have the right to request that people not publish any reviews until they are ready. After all, it is their creation no matter where they get their money from (the fans.) I don't know how many times that I have told someone (at work) that something wasn't quite ready yet only to have him go ahead and try using (whatever it is that I do) then I get upset at their stupidity. I think that the same applies here.

[moneyisevil]

I say if they think this album is so fucken special then why didnt they just give it to families/friends instead of releasing it to the public?
.

[dracomordag]

As much as I would love to just throw my fist in the air and get on the "true fanboy" bandwagon, there is still more that needs to be said.

Tool is a Band. They make music. This is their product. You purchase this music. You are a consumer.

Although most of this "true fan" talk is quite romantic, they are not your family, your friend or your teacher. Being a "true fan" of a band is really no different than being a "true fan" of a running shoe company.

I'm sorry if that thought is difficult to come to terms with, but I assure you, this is the truth.

Now, I love Tool's product. Hell, I think it's some of the best shit money can buy! This doesn't mean that I don't have the right to express my discontent regarding how they go about promoting their product. This doesn't mean that I can't crave their product. I have the right to my opinion, as a consumer. This is how industry works.

Being a "true fan", as I'm reading it in this thread, is just some strange pipe dream where it somehow matters what YOU think. Being a 'true fan' is just a nice way of saying that you are fully subscribed to this product (to the point where you defend it as if you're on the payroll.) If you must live in that dream, all the power to you. I think Tool is simply taking advantage of their market and exploiting it's weakness in order to create a larger and larger awareness of their product. It's human nature to want what you can't have, especially when it's something so simple (like a track list.) Brilliant. The fever is catching.

Maybe they'll thank all of their 'true fans' as soon as it goes platinum.

One last note...

Nobody can tell you to think for yourself without it being a complete contradiction.

The art of music is a higher form of expression than the art of making a running shoe. Sure, they're both sold in a capitalist economy, but there's more to an object than what it's worth in money.

[Fulcanelli]

I say if they think this album is so fucken special then why didnt they just give it to families/friends instead of releasing it to the public?

I don't know why you are so worked up over this. Just take it easy at least until you hear Tool's point of view. Anyway, even if Tool were being assholes then that still has nothing to do with their music so who really cares.

Would this incident stop you from buying the new album?

[moneyisevil]

with this incident i just view the band in a new light....millionaires who dont give a shit...i cant believe i missed this the whole time ive been a fan

[dracomordag]

with this incident i just view the band in a new light....millionaires who dont give a shit...i cant believe i missed this the whole time ive been a fan

because it was entirely Tool's choice to do this.

[just simulacra]

honestly, it all comes down to this

tool views their music as art.
the industry views it as a product.
there's a conflict of interests as tool tries to retain what they feel is the integrity of their art.
and unfortunately, the fans are most inconvenienced.

[Fulcanelli]

with this incident i just view the band in a new light....millionaires who dont give a shit...i cant believe i missed this the whole time ive been a fan

I don't think that's the case at all. They are just protecting their interests. Maybe Tool were right about what they did and that Andy King was being the asshole for putting the band in such a bad situation?

[Hannibal]

with this incident i just view the band in a new light....millionaires who dont give a shit...i cant believe i missed this the whole time ive been a fan

I think you're overreacting. Remember, there's two sides to every story. And you're on the internet. If you were right there with the band during this "supposed" session, and you heard how they treated him, then you would have a right to be upset. But you weren't there.

This could still be a work, and i'm leaning towards 70/30 it being fake. Something doesn't fit right with it. Andy King is of course going to show himself being the victim here, especially since Tool has said nothing about it.

I'm going to wait it out...somethings amiss

[stathiz]

take it easy...

first of all, as it is posted before, you can''t be sure about the real facts.
and second and more important is that the last thing one can accuse tool of is selling out or having the money its top priority.of course fans get excited with all this secrecy but you have to think how many fans tool lost with these 5 years of silence, it would have been a lot easier for them to play the game by the rules, i think they would make a lot more money this way.

what the band does before they release the album is their job and should not interest anyone. its only the music that we can judge and only that.i can't understand why anyone would want to know what the album or the tracks are called if he can't listen to it! wait and get the full package, there are other things to do in the meanwhile...

although i must admit i find all this cosniperacy theory thats going on rather funny...
so keep it up but take it easy...

[ARMZ]

Tool doesn't care about crack heads.

[magnolia]

WAH-wahhhhhhhhhhhh

[marcus]

I know that there is a sub forum for the new CD, but that is all I know. I think it is funny that so many people are reading that forum. I think the best part about a release is the first listen without any preconceived notions.

I didn't even read this thread, just champion's first post.

Someone let me know when it gets leaked please.

[NWO SHILL]

My thoughts - this is all going how Tool planned. Honestly, how can anyone get past the concept of having a promo-tour and inviting members of the press, expecting them to not report on the album? Why not invite random people, fans, hobos, anyone but the press. For christ's sake it's their job and hence what they expected by Tool's invitation.

So buddy publishes a review, consider the following:
*Buddy and his station are in on it
*Tool planned this out (why were there no other published thoughts?)
*Did this event even take place?
*As others have pointed out - EVERYONE benefits from this, fans get info, tool gets press, buddy gets press, etc. etc.
*Why the hell would you invite the press and expect no reporting?? That's like leaving a box of steaks with your dog while you go to the park and expecting the box to be as it was when you left.
*Decoy album?
*Blair expected 'leaks' this time of the month

Honestly, this event seems so strange and I am so skeptical that I just don't get it. It is entirely irrational to think that the press wouldn't report on the album, which makes me thing the whole thing was staged and it's all just more hype for the album - the track times, names, descriptions, etc, it could all be fake and orchestrated by the band themselves. No post from BMB on Toolband suggests they're all just sitting back living it up enjoying how their ploy is playing out, and I for one congratulate them. It sure has been fun to watch on this board...

Anyway, that's my thoughts. It changes nothing, I'm excited for the album, and it comes out when it comes out.

YES.

[yerch]

Seems like an odd argument from either side...

It seems like the last thing Tool is about is some bullshit goosestepping get-in-line be a true fan and agree with everything they do blindly mentality.

On the other hand if you don't like them personally or the way they handle their business who really gives a shit? Does it change your opinion of the music somehow? Do they need to be great people to make great music?

Realistically there is no point whatsoever to inviting the press to listen to your album if they aren't allowed to report on it. That being said, perhaps there are specific ground rules for when or what they were allowed to report that they were supposed to have agreed to. Does anyone here actually know?

No. You don't even know the fucking album title for christ's sake so you definitely don't know enough about this situation to demand allegiance because of your secret boner for Maynard or to shit all over them to prove how totally indie and anti-corporate you really are. Three pages of this shit? Are you kidding me?

[Khastra_KSC]

Amen

[Starfish]

any fanboy with a 2006 join date needs to get the fuck out of here.

[champion]

George Bush does not care about black people.

[Chris_Brightwell]

any fanboy with a 2006 join date needs to get the fuck out of here.Same is true for anyone with a user ID higher than 10.

[Starfish]

Same is true for anyone with a user ID higher than 10.


who is this brightwell dude, anway? *

[ARMZ]

He is your father.

[CurtSchilling]

He is your father.

Pedro: "Chris Brightwell is my daddy!"

D.

[ARMZ]

I don't get it.

[5th Eye]

Good thread; thanks Champion...you are a light at the end of the tunnel. Only not really.

[ruby]

I completely agree with the thread-starter.

This is how art used to be presented, and the reason why art in the past made a much bigger impression on society than most stuff nowadays.

By doing this, the band proves themselves to be a powerful collective of artists taking control of their own creation.. Just like GY!BE, and Gong in the 70's etc..

This is the most powerful and respectable thing any artist can choose to do, espescially in the crazy, spastic, plastic-media environment we currently get hammered by.

Mucho respecto to Tool for this.

[stinkfish]

Anyone saying they wont like the new album/stop listening to tool just because of this incident is a fucking idiot. But that doesn't mean what tool did (if it's true) is right. Andy is a die hard fan just like the rest of us and it's clear he doesn't have an agenda - all he tried to do was to forward the good news to the rest of us mortals. THe review barely disclosed anything, all it says is "hey it's a fucking great album, just like expected" just with a couple of hundred more words.

If anything, tool should be happy hearing their stuff is good from an outsider after years of absence. But fine, if they didn't like Andy's move, ask him to take it off his website politely, not to fucking ban him from the interview sessions. afterall it was a misunderstanding. seems to me tool is taking water over their heads.

[snakeeyedhawk]

I can't believe all of you that are turning your backs now. You're so misinformed or are just flat out ignorant.

[Starfish]

I don't get it.


me neither.

[Spoon]

More people need to read my post.

[tentonmantra]

gee you guys take it too seriously.

and this "2006 joiners" is shit.

i know tool from the Undertow era but I was never interested in message boards until last year. you alwasy start at some point.

and i bet tool loves to get new fans anyway, they depend on fans to live on.
at least at some degree.

[Staticfactory]

Quite the thread this has turned into... it's even avoided being derailed on a few occasions!

Something is really bugging me about the whole topic of this discussion though... who exactly is 'turning their back' on the band? (and how does one do that?)

I have a feeling that people are blowing the situation way out of proportion (which is not odd for this forum.) Just because people are getting anxious about the release and are starting to get frustrated with the information-gag doesn't mean that they're writing tear-stained letters to the band with titles like "HOW COULD YOU?!" and "I THOUGHT WE WERE TIGHT!". If, by 'turning your back' you mean "bitching and complaining", take a good look around at all the bitching and complaining about bitching and complaining. As I said before - we're allowed to feel however we do about this process. Just because some fanboys can just lube it up, bend over and say "I'm a true fan" doesn't mean anything besides the fact that they have huge hardons for the band. As far as I'm concerned, what Tool is doing hardly fits into the 'boning' category anyway.

A few follow up thoughts on my last post and the subsequent replies. I was being very cynical (on purpose) about the nature of the music business itself - not about the values of art. It's a really bad time to be a rock star.

Fact: We are at the height of information and communication. We have paparazzi in every bathroom, in every tree, with ultra-long range zoom lenses, just WAITING and SALIVATING on the chance to exploit a 'super star'. Exploitation sells. Ask Brad and Jen. (Yes, you know who I'm talking about!!)

If that's not bad enough (someone trying to fuck you over for their own profit) you have this incredible medium for information and communication that spans the globe. On this "internet" you can just "download" whatever you want without ever having to pay. I'm surprised that bands sell over 100 units anymore.

Wait, it gets worse!! Not only can some chump collect a million album library for FREE, but for some reason (when you combine exploitation, greed and demand) you can now get albums BEFORE THEY'RE RELEASED!!! How many times has it happened now? Can we possibly count the times? A friend of mind had eMOTIVe 2 weeks before it was released. In fact, I just heard on the radio yesterday that 3 new G'N'R tracks were leaked and they don't even know when/if they're going to release a new album! Yeah, I know.. it's G'N'R... who cares.

The fact remains, and it's a pretty broad subject that lowly fanboys can barely comprehend, let alone appreciate.

It's true, Tool is a group of artists (that create incredible pieces of work!). They are also a corporate entity, responsible for moving units in order to remain lucrative. If they can't sell their art, they are no longer profitable and they go the way of thousands and thousands of bands before them (shitter). In order to sell their art, they require integrity surrounding the production and distribution of the product. They have to market the product for awareness to grow.

I'm sure you've connected the dots by now. Let them do the best they can to get their product onto shelves (hopefully before it shows up on hard drives.) This is their bread and butter... and they work fucking hard to do what they do.

It doesn't matter what you think, so don't waste your time thinking you know the first thing about what they're doing/what they need to do/what they should do. In the end, we're all waiting for the same product and we will eventually get it.

[champion]

Best thread in New Album Forum history?

[spiralout987]

shut up everyone

[dracomordag]

Best thread in New Album Forum history?

at least the first post... and maybe a few others.


people: relax. New Tool music will rock, and the band themselves probably did not really choose to do things this way.