Jesus was afraid to die.

[whyonly1]

After withdrawing about a stone's throw from them and kneeling, he prayed, saying, "Father, if you are willing, take this cup away from me; still, not my will but yours be done." (And to strengthen him an angel from heaven appeared to him. He was in such agony and he prayed so fervently that his sweat became like drops of blood falling on the ground.)

[paraflux]

He might have been apprehensive about the whole dying thing (pussy, j/k) but I doubt he was afraid. Sure, he pled for the cup to be taken from him, but part of the christ consciousness is the complete absence of fear. I would think that if he was afraid it would have shown in the other parts of his death. Like in the "trial" or carrying his cross to the top of the hill.

But I think you are saying the song is not about Jesus. And you are both right and wrong. Jesus was such a leader that Maynard mocks the blind following of. But it could be anyone in that type of position.

[Hogpile]

Being god and human at the same time must have its advantages. Like knowing that once you die your not really dead, and theres a big fat golden throne and some heavenly bitches waiting for you amidst the clouds, not to mention all mighty father big nuts lord of all. Riding the theory that Jesus was the son of god, I find it ridiculous that he would be afraid to die, or be afraid of anything else for that matter. He's god. What does god have to fear?

[Wild_T]

Well I think the whole crucifiction thing would be something to fear. Let me break it down for you: first off, the spikes (they were FAR too large to be nails, despite what many Trent Reznor fans will tell you) were driven through the flesh between the radius and ulna, the two bones of the wrist. Putting them through the hands was not enough support; they would tear out and the criminal would fall from the cross. And although bleeding would result, the spikes themselves would 'plug' a good amount of the wound -- for the same reasons you are never to remove an impaled object if you are injured or stabbed. Death would result not from bleeding but from exposure and suffocation; the lungs would fill with fluid and you would drown or simply freeze\cook from weather. Compounding this in Jesus's case was the severe beating he received beforehand, along with the crown of thorns forced over his head. Given all this, I think Jesus was more than a little afraid -- part God or not, he still had to die in a very painful fashion.

Personally, I think this song is more aimed at the personality type of the false messiah. People who amass legions of loyal believers and fans, proclaiming to be something more than they are and stating that their belief in whatever cause suits them is worth their own death. It goes without saying that, interperated this way, it would be calling these people a bit of a hipocrite -- but as the ending states, there will always be another to take the place of those who are 'crucified'. The Jesus thing, in my opinion, is all metaphor. But I didn't write the song, I could be wrong :)

[paraflux]

I am glad people see this song like Wild T.

[Hogpile]

My point on fear man is that being immortal leaves little to fear. Me or you or the next guy might fear the big scary spikes through our wrists that you mentioned, but I doubt the son of God would be shitting his pants over a painful death that in the experience of god would be nothing but a minscule amount of time in the vast weave of eternity. Yes, the "human" part of Jesus might have felt some pain fear and anguish, but I liken his experiences to that of a "spiritual Terminator". He can feel and record pain for the necessity of passing as human, but his fear of death is nothing compared to the two criminals on the cross dying beside him.

[Pierre-Paul]

Jesus wasn't afraid to die, he knew he would be a marthyr, he had so much faith in his father that somehow he knew he would help him.

He had too much faith to be afraid. He probably knew that if god let him suffer, it had a reason.

You can say he was blinded by faith.

[abefrohmn]

Originally posted by Pierre-Paul
Jesus wasn't afraid to die, he knew he would be a marthyr, he had so much faith in his father that somehow he knew he would help him.

He had too much faith to be afraid. He probably knew that if god let him suffer, it had a reason.

You can say he was blinded by faith.

THat depends on which account of Christ's life you subscribe to. In the low christology account in Mark, Jesus isn't referred to as being concieved by the Holy Ghost, but in fact isn't declared to be the Son of God in anyway until he's baptized. THis is where the Jehovah's Witness/7th Day Adventists/Quakers/ Branch Davidian get their notion of an adopted Son of God from. Mark is the oldest of the accounts. In it Christ has to try twice to heal the blind, drops his cross, is afraid to be Crucified, has a naked guy streak through the middle of his tribunal with the Sanherdrin, moans and wails and begs God to take him, and doesn't once declare himself to be the Son of God directly.

In the high christology account of Christ in John, which I just finished reading again the other night. Jesus is said to have existed since the begining of time (The whole The word was with God, the word was the light and the light was shown unto the darkness actually coems from some Egyptian god reference) declares himself forthwrightly to be the Son of God plenty. performs plenty of miracles, isn't afraid to die, tarries his own cross, and decides when he wants to give up the Ghost on the Cross. And doesn't suffer much from the account. And has a naked Peter steak out on the boat while fishing (Gotta loves those exhibitionist Jewish tradition)

Something to chew on.

[Hogpile]

Pierre-Paul, I like the points you made, they were quite interesting. However, Jesus being announced as the son of god when John the baptist baptizes him, in my opinion does not mean he wasn't claiming to be the son of god before hand. I think that the dove decending down above Jesus's head and the voice from heaven saying "this is my son with whom I am well pleased" would sum up that supposedly God was down with the Christ man as being his holyspermed spawn. I think John the baptist(being a well known prophet and preacher to begin with) helped Jesus's career a little by claiming that he WAS in fact the son of God. As far as I'm concerned though, the bible is so very interesting, because of all these little descrepsences. Also, the book of Mark deals more with the powerful, and Godlike traits of Jesus, because Mark was a Roman and he was writing the book to make Christianity appealing to Romans who were impressed with power, and strength, and being regal, above all the other qualities Jesus possessed.

[nate]

Jesus was not afraid of dieing, he was afraid of the period where he would be seperated from god in his descent to hell. Keep in mind that all of the sins of humanity were placed onto him, and it could only be purged through hell, so after he descended he had to fight his way out. There would be no logical reason at all for him to fear death itself, it was just the time period that he would be apart from his father that scared him.

[paraflux]

Thats a very catholic way of looking at it. The Catholics are good at making logical guesses, but I doubt this is what happened, if indeed it actually historically happened (which matters not to me, the story is still the same). He died, hung out on the dimensional overtone above ours, and came back in three days, or at least in apparition form.

[nate]

I am not catholic, but I still believe that is what happened. The bible does does not say that he descended to hell, that is just my interpretation of where it says that he was seperated from god. What other dimension is godless?