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k_j
11-21-2002, 11:19 AM
I think that maybe there is a slight misconception regarding this song. everyone seems to think it means "take drugs and go to nirvana"... I don't get it... if you really want to learn about the third eye look into the pineal gland and astral projection... the band doesn't condemn drug use, but this song is not centered around getting high!

Floydian Theory
11-21-2002, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by k_j
I think that maybe there is a slight misconception regarding this song. everyone seems to think it means "take drugs and go to nirvana"... I don't get it... if you really want to learn about the third eye look into the pineal gland and astral projection... the band doesn't condemn drug use, but this song is not centered around getting high!

I have to agree. Without all-out condemning drug use, in more spiritual matters, like Astral Projection or Telepathy etc,
drugs would only complicate, or cloud things. I have read in numerous books that while drugs may help you to achieve access to another realm, dimension etc, it is truly better to do this through meditation or other pure, relaxing means.

k_j
11-21-2002, 11:39 AM
people tend to look for the easy way to obtain enlightenment. the truth is that there is no easy way. to begin with you must be willing to open your mind and accept that which we are not prepared for or able to comprehend. I'm still having trouble trying to understand this world...

Floydian Theory
11-21-2002, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by k_j
people tend to look for the easy way to obtain enlightenment. the truth is that there is no easy way. to begin with you must be willing to open your mind and accept that which we are not prepared for or able to comprehend. I'm still having trouble trying to understand this world...

As are all of us. :)
I agree. People want to be able to alter their perceptions, but if they can do that with drugs, why don't they see it is that much clearer without them.
Also, considering, that drugs affect your mind and that to an extent, these realms exist in our minds, you would think that people would understand that it really isn't about drugs at all.
Its about cleansing ourselves, opening ourselves, seeing things we would normally look past, existing on a whole different level than we have existed before.

okkoto
11-21-2002, 02:41 PM
i'm not one to grasp out for drug refrences but i mean seriously, this is pretty obvious. nothing in maynard's lyrics hint at drugs...i agree, but the choice of sound clips before the song do. bill hicks is obviously talking about drugs and saying that the musicians who made your fav music were rrrrrrrrrrreal high on drugs (that includes tool) and when played live the song preceeded by none other than dr. tim leary.

oh actually, maynard does refer to "phospherescent desert buttons" which definately sounds like peyote to me.

k_j
11-21-2002, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by okkoto
i'm not one to grasp out for drug refrences but i mean seriously, this is pretty obvious. nothing in maynard's lyrics hint at drugs...i agree, but the choice of sound clips before the song do. bill hicks is obviously talking about drugs and saying that the musicians who made your fav music were rrrrrrrrrrreal high on drugs (that includes tool) and when played live the song preceeded by none other than dr. tim leary.

oh actually, maynard does refer to "phospherescent desert buttons" which definately sounds like peyote to me.

the point I was trying to convey is that there is more to be said for this song than "get high"... I really do not believe it is the sole intent of the song... references? yes, mentions? yes... but not the whole of the meaning. there is so much more that can be taken from this song.

mike tyson
11-21-2002, 05:14 PM
I don't think that drugs are the one and only way to achieve this ' Third Eye state '. It may be one way, but there are other ways to experience the euphoric state while on a drug. It may be difficult, but one must be aware of this if they are looking to achieve this state of enlightenment. Even the smallest sense of elation or hallucination should be recognized, and build upon what was being done at the moment. *I'm not saying that if you feel euphoric on a drug, step it up and take alot more.* I am saying that if you are not on a drug and achieve some sense of elation, build upon it. I lay in complete darkness with Tool on the stereo, and eyes open, and I can see patterns and different geometric objects, and sometimes just plain objects. ( not distinct objects, but they are complex objects [ kind of hard to explain ] ) These objects move and morph into different objects and symbols, in all different colours, it's something that is a weird thing, but its beautiful. Just a little visual thing that happens to me in complete darkness, and Tool does help, since I have attempted this with other music, and it was not as effective, perhaps Tool gets me in a different world.

okkoto
11-22-2002, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by k_j


the point I was trying to convey is that there is more to be said for this song than "get high"... I really do not believe it is the sole intent of the song... references? yes, mentions? yes... but not the whole of the meaning. there is so much more that can be taken from this song.


i dont believe the message of this song is to "get high" either. lot's of people have a profound reverence for hallucinagens, and i think more people should. mushrooms and peyote especially are powerful agents and not "party drugs", and have been used for thousands of years by shamans in lots of cultures. in fact if you read terrence mckenna's book "food of the gods" he poses a pretty good theory that humans evolved from hominids to the self reflecting creatures we are today because of mushroom use. no one is quite sure what practical function the hallucinagenic alkalines in mushrooms have. mckenna suggests that they are sort of a message reciever and by mankind consuming them they could connect with a sort of plant consciousness and learn important information. also it is a method to dissolve ego and let your self bathe in the oneness that exists outside yourself

but anyhoo, as far as the song goes, i've always intupreted it like this:

i always thought of it as someone who has not taken drugs for a long time coming back to them.

sort of like someone deciding "drugs are too much for me and overall i can do without them" and then coming back to them and realizing there is something very powerful there.

the face that the "narrator" is dreaming of is sorta like the spirit guide to all of this narrators previous trips. a familiar other that exists on a different plane. this other has missed the narrator, he hasnt visited the other space in awhile. " so good to see you once again. i thought that you were hiding from me, and you thought i had run away, chasing the tail of dogma"

the narrator comes back "whiping the webs and the dew from my withere eye". he sees this other place with his third eye, and since it has been out of use for so long it has become withered and covered in webs and dew. such an awesome image!!!

the starnge part fo this song comes in the middle with that softly spoken poem part, and this could actually be a descritpion of the state that the narrator is in

the only concrete realization that the narrator gives that i can inturpret comes from the child's rhyme. this is obviously "row row row your boat, gentley down the stream (of consciousness heheh), merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, LIFE IS BUT A DREAM" this correlates with the bill hick's quote from the begining "today a young man on acid..." and also is reminiscent of thmese in cowboy bebop...wich had a shroom episode.

as to the holy crow, and the blue second sun, i have no idea, but it sounds damn cool doenst it? the phospherescent desert buttons are most likely peyote.

so to sum up, i see it like the narrator giving up drugs but feeling lost and missing his sipirt familiar just as much as his spirit familiar missed him, wich is a damn interesting concept. they have a blessed reunion where the narrator then realizes life is but a dream and makes up a cool poem about a holy crow and a blue second sun.

but you don't have to take my word for it

max
11-23-2002, 01:59 AM
drugs can offer a glimpse of enlightenment, but the experience is often fleeting and unstable, especially if the person isn't using drugs with spritiualism as a specific goal. i was mentally unprepared the first time i took shrooms and thus wasted at least half of the experience; however, the other half of the time my mind was functioning on a higher level than it ever had before and my eyes were opened as to how little i actually knew about life. based on my experience, i don't have a problem with recreational drug use because of the chance that someone else's eyes will open too.

i think it's obvious that the song isn't an anthem for rampant brain-frying, but to deny the connection between the third eye and hallucinogens would be a mistake. if used properly, drugs can give a person spiritual insight and provide a unique opportunity to take a journey within his or her own mind; if used improperly, drugs can at least open open a person up and even cause him or her to make a positive change in life.

maximus

scorpioali
11-23-2002, 03:50 PM
i don't doubt that any one of tool's songs can be about drugs, but it seems like so many people just want to come to the conclusion that every one of their songs is about them. i know that tool is a band that is based on the idea of expanind your mind and stuff through the use of drugs, but that doesn't mean that every song is about them. i feel a little bad about saying this because the whole purpose of the opinions section is for people to give their own interpretations of tool's music, but simetimes that i think it's a bit too much.

joshuacureton
11-23-2002, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by scorpioali
i don't doubt that any one of tool's songs can be about drugs, but it seems like so many people just want to come to the conclusion that every one of their songs is about them. i know that tool is a band that is based on the idea of expanind your mind and stuff through the use of drugs, but that doesn't mean that every song is about them. i feel a little bad about saying this because the whole purpose of the opinions section is for people to give their own interpretations of tool's music, but simetimes that i think it's a bit too much.
i think every one of tools songs is about drugs. they are nothing but junkies. just like you. just like me. personally, i am addicted to milk. it expands my third eye. it wipes the cobwebs, blah blah blah. the only difference between tool and the rest of us is money. blah blah blah. no one cares. this is a new life form. listen to the words. im so drunk write now. i cant get my computer to work and its the end of the world. who reads this other than me? i think this and that and this and that but i dont really think, now do i? its not like im really here. follow the money. worship gods. blah blah blah. i hope the web site censors me. tool has the opportunity to make their dreams reality. they are gods. when we sing along with them, they are practicing magic and stealing power from us. from us bah bah sheep. dont just call me pessimist. try and read between the lines.
ps.
wine is gods milk.

Disasterpeice
11-23-2002, 06:10 PM
(This is probably the fifth time I've tried replying. My computer keeps booting me off.)

The opening bit to the song, to me, is just TooL's way of telling you to think for yourself - in this situaion, about drugs. It also provides an entertaining opening to a damned good song. But they did it differently in the opening to Salival's version of Third Eye, where they just come out and say "think for yourself - question authority". To me, the song's more about spirituality than drugs - the search for enlightment that some people will work so hard for, they'll try to even force it ("prying open my third eye").

The third eye - in a spiritual sense - is located between your eyebrows. It's a spiritual third eye - it allows you to see into a situation for what it really is, let's you see reality for what it truely is. Hindu's represent the third eye by the red dot they have on their foreheads (if I remember correctly). It's also an energy chakra (the sixth of seven), and when all energy chakra's are being properly channeled, a person reaches enlightenment, a kind of divine link with a higher power.

The song seems to be about a person striving for this enlightenment, using their third eye to search into themselves and into reality, but maybe enlightenment's coming a bit too slowly... so they try to force it, by what means I have no clue. I could be completely wrong, too. It MAY be about drugs... but in my personal opinion, I don't believe it is.

okkoto
11-23-2002, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by Disasterpeice
The opening bit to the song, to me, is just TooL's way of telling you to think for yourself - in this situaion, about drugs. It also provides an entertaining opening to a damned good song. But they did it differently in the opening to Salival's version of Third Eye, where they just come out and say "think for yourself - question authority".


yes....and the person saying this is one of the most prominant psychedelic gurus in HISTORY!!!!!!! that tells me this song is more about drugs than a comedian!!

i do not think every song by tool is about drugs, in fact this is probably one of the only ones. i mean come on...i have a bootleg where maynard recommends listening to the entire joni mitchell catalog on acid.

there are even good speculations that the cover of salival has an acid tab on it. you know the shiny little square (it's about the right size), and the title, salival, go hand in hand.

mdc244
11-26-2002, 09:03 PM
Kj has Tool told you what their songs mean.....

Na didn't think so.

It certainly could be drugs as it could be anything else , if people intrepret the song being about getting high, than that's fine. There is no better intrepretation, when noone actually knows what the songs mean.

And no, tool would never put acid on a tool live box set. Whoever you heard that from should be shot.

k_j
11-27-2002, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by mdc244
Kj has Tool told you what their songs mean.....

Na didn't think so.

It certainly could be drugs as it could be anything else , if people intrepret the song being about getting high, than that's fine. There is no better intrepretation, when noone actually knows what the songs mean.

And no, tool would never put acid on a tool live box set. Whoever you heard that from should be shot.

Rewind, go back, and read again... I never said that I "knew" what tool meant when they conceptualized and wrote this song. I do know that the songs main point, which I point out in my original post, is not "you need to get high". I was reacting to other posts on the board that say the song is only about acid and mushrooms, to which there are references. The band has never wrote a song on such a base level that the only meaning would be "take drugs". That was my point! Anyone with half a brain can tell there is much more to this song, there are references hidden throughout that also point to things OTHER than drug usage. So thanks a lot for attempting to call me out, but you also missed the point of my original post.

mdc244
11-27-2002, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by k_j
I think that maybe there is a slight misconception regarding this song. everyone seems to think it means "take drugs and go to nirvana"... I don't get it... if you really want to learn about the third eye look into the pineal gland and astral projection... the band doesn't condemn drug use, but this song is not centered around getting high!


"this song is not centered around getting high" - Kj

You are obviously saying that the song is not about getting high....

How would you know what this song is about? - Do you know something we don't?


If you can't tell from my last post, I am not arguing your point that the song has references. -Every tool song has references to something - I am only arguing your point that you said the song is about not getting high *repeat* I am only arguing your point that the song is not about getting high.


The song only gives what you take from it. It can be as deep or shallow as you want it to be, it all depends on how you look it at. I mean they did put a Bill Hicks quote about musicians "getting high" so it could certainly be about that as it could anything else.

I'm just stating my opinion -i'm not attempting to "call you out" or take personal shots- so calm down.

Like maynard said concerning intrepretations of the song by fans "I read the intrepretations that they send. They're way off, but that's fine"

DarkSpiral
11-27-2002, 06:28 PM
Settle down, these boards are for opinions...

I think the song is about someone that tries to reach a new level using drugs, without actually trying to do it without drugs.

Whoever mentioned the idea about the rhyme... stream of consciousness... interesting... and well picked up, though if we look hard enough, we can find whatever we want...

I saw an article somewhere on religious symbolism... the crow is a powerful symbol, but i cant remember what it meant... maybe something to do with death...

The song may be about drugs, but it might not... who are we to say?

~Spiral~Out~

astaroth
11-28-2002, 03:44 PM
i don't know if you read my my post at all (look at prying open my third eye) but no where in the song does it mention apart from bill hicks and the use of timothy leary on the live version the use of drugs. My personal opinion is that it could possibly be a bum steer to head the listeners into the belief that the song is about drug use. Tool always seems shrouded in secrecy and it could be possible that they are trying to let us interpret it our own way. The point of the matter is that we will never know the real meaning, its left to our own opinions.

Dissonance
12-06-2002, 02:55 PM
I'd again like to reiterate something I said somewhere else.

People revere psychoactive drugs because people have used them for thousands of years and they give the illusion of enlightenment.

I would like to point out what exactly drugs DO. Your brain has a complex system of electrochemical receptors that interpret messages. Drugs disrupt the clockwork-like processes of interpreting messages. Meaning, anything you "perceive" or "learn" while tripping is a result of altering the way your brain handles information.

For an oversimplified example, imagine TV in the 1950's. They watched Leave it to Beaver. Now, the Beav's couch was, lets say green. However, the black-and-white television altered the way the message of the green couch reached our eyes. All we saw was a grey couch. Our perceptions would be false because the processes used to interpret the perceptions were altered from their natural order.

Drugs create an illusion of depth and illumination. But at the heart of it, drugs simply obscure the messages sent to our brain. If you want true enlightenment and true revelation, you have to work within the carefully designed machine that our brain is. There probably IS a third eye, there probably IS a way to evolve your mind and consciousness, but using drugs is absolutely detrimental to that process.

Keep in mind, i'm not condemning drug use. I'm not saying "drugs are bad". All I'm saying is that drugs fill you with illusions and false perceptions. Never with the true realities.

4DegreesInWV
12-13-2002, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by okkoto
i'm not one to grasp out for drug refrences but i mean seriously, this is pretty obvious. nothing in maynard's lyrics hint at drugs...i agree, but the choice of sound clips before the song do. bill hicks is obviously talking about drugs and saying that the musicians who made your fav music were rrrrrrrrrrreal high on drugs (that includes tool) and when played live the song preceeded by none other than dr. tim leary.

oh actually, maynard does refer to "phospherescent desert buttons" which definately sounds like peyote to me.
Tool is so much more intelligent than a lot of other bands. They dont just sit down and write a song, they analyze it and doctor it up to there highest potential. (which is pretty high) Oh yea, and about them talking about drugs, big deal? So sure Tool centers around one subject in most of there songs.

Hogpile
12-16-2002, 09:49 AM
This certainly seems like a drug reference to me, along with "a boy on acid....." and "reeeeeeeeeeeeeal fuckin high on drugs" Not only do I think the song is about drugs, I think it was inspired and written under the influence of multiple hallucinagens. Drugs drugs and more drugs. Oh, and Joshuacureton, your a dumbass. Wine is god's milk? Wow. You blew my mind with that in depth analogy of how deep in thought you obviously are, and how far above all the rest of us on the evolution chain you must be. Quit huffing paint on the way to grade school circus boy. By the way drugs are the only solution to an otherwise mediocre exsistence in futility. So smoke your fucking brains out people. Shoot for the fucking stars!!! 10 million heroin users can't be wrong.

Floydian Theory
12-16-2002, 01:34 PM
I feel sorry for all of these people who really think the only way to ascend is by using drugs.
Don't you people get it? If the ability is within us, we can tap into it without the drugs.
I am not by any means condemning drug use. I am not denying that Tool's songs have many references to drugs.
But do you people really think that you will be able to ascend, open your third eye, or become whole again, by filling your bodies with harmful and mind altering substances?

The stupidity of it blows me away.

Hogpile
12-16-2002, 02:09 PM
I think some people in our midst are taking this third eye shit a little too seriously. Having a third eye, along with utilizing it, is a speculation, and a theory, it's not hard core fact, and its not something I sit around and practice to do. How many of you, know someone who can commit telepathy or astral projection, or read into the future on a consistent basis? I know about....lemme see.....absolutely fucking no one. I don't think Tool seriously sits around and takes a bunch of shrooms, drops some doses, eats some buttons, and think of ways to pry open their third eyes a little wider. Its a concept their playing with in a song, that they obviously wrote under the influence, or from inspirations deriving from druguse. Does Maynard really step through his shadow and come out the other side, gaining enlightenment and couple chromosomes after eating a healthy portion of brain obliverating substances, and then while still recalling his holy experiences, write a song to show us all the way? Uh, yah. He's speculating on interesting subject matter, and interesting theories that make the brain work a little harder to concieve. Tool's lyrics are not a fucking bible people. I personally don't sit around comptemplating how i can reach a new embodiment through acid and third eye conversion like its a realistic way of life. So no Floydian Theory I don't assume I can ascend or strengthen my third eye through drug use, of course then again, I never really considered ascending or becoming the next buddah anyway. Some Tool blasting from my stero along with about 12 cold ass beers and a lifetime supply of nice tight pussy would enlighten me just fine thanks. Hows that for some stupidity, professer?

jase
12-16-2002, 05:32 PM
yeah I agree, things are getting a bit on the heated serious side here. There are some very good ideas raised here on a very good song about very interesting subject matter. The fact is I'm sure none of us here can achieve these higher states only with our own minds. Floydian Theory: can you ascend or open your third eye WITHOUT filling your body with mind altering substances? Like you, most of us would like to think we can, but we can't. Drugs have given us a look into this world, be it reality or not and maybe some direction to how to get there naturally, be it reality or not. Maybe that's one of the points the song is touching on. Sure there is a higher plain we are all capable somehow of seeing, but it doesn't just happen, it needs to be forced open, and using drugs to do that is one way, be it an easy and obviously popular way. maybe that's all it takes and you're on your way, good luck.
Just like the Bill Hicks quote, if drugs have helped people make music, it sure has helped people listen to it as well. I personally enjoy listening to music in any way, but open your ears under the influence and it certainly makes it something even more special.

Floydian Theory
12-17-2002, 09:00 AM
If you really must know, I do know 2 people who have had very basic experiences with astral-projection. They were limited in what they could do, where they could go, etc. And neither of them have been able to do that with drugs as simple as marijuana. As I said before in my post, I am not condemning drug use, I am not saying that Tool does not associate drugs with prying open the third eye. But drugs and ascension are two very different things. If you are going to do drugs, do them for the affect they have on you, not because you think they are going to turn you into some type of clairvoyant. I think you are all missing my point on that.
I have had plenty of experience with many types of substances in the past, but haven't used them in a couple of years.
I can say that from my experience, I have gotten much more in touch with myself without drugs than I ever could have hoped for while using drugs. Drugs (Most of them) tend to create confusion, instability, and chaos, especially when being used regularly.
Those conditions are not liable to help produce the results you want.
Talk to anyone who has studied things like that in depth.
In order to get in touch with your unconscious or collective unconcsious, you must be relaxed, open to yourself and emotions, your environment needs to be calm. Drugs very rarely create that atmosphere.
So forgive me if the comment about stupidity offended some of you, but I am free to have my oppinion and I do have experiences backing my words. For those of you who are so quick to jump on me for my oppinions.
How many ascension-type experiences have you had on drugs that were not mere hallucinations or tricks of the mind?
Can you take yourself back to that place without the drugs?
Have any of these experiences brought you face to face with yourself and made changes within you, or were they merely cool experiences.
Remember before you all start bashing me, my argument here is not agains drugs, it is that ascension, or self-realization and drugs do not necessarily go hand in hand.
I think too many people want to use that as an excuse for why drugs are really good for us and so on and so on.

withered_EYE
12-29-2002, 03:33 PM
Sometimes I think the band throws something at the listeners to lead them astray. To thin out those not worthy of understanding the messege. The whole drug connotation in third eye is one of these cases. Drugs will only expand your mind a little bit. They will never take you to a complete level of understandings. A more readily understandible example of how the band does this can be seen in "Stinkfist." The title of the song and the actual meaning are completely different. The drug connotation is far more subtle.

Jerk off
01-07-2003, 11:03 AM
I did read this somewhere. Don't quite remember where though.

IF you take a drug like acid or peyote any hallucinogenic really.
It will take you to a state of Timelessness. The person who takes the substance and than achieves said state, might never look for another way to get to that state of timelessness.

I think the drug use means, do it once, to see what its like. Now, try to do it on your own. That's just what I think, and I maybe talking out of my ass.

Sicnevol@hotmail.com <e-mail me>
MW

Shinji
07-12-2007, 05:41 AM
as to the holy crow, and the blue second sun, i have no idea
Try Carlos Castaneda.