when maynard was 11

[pathological2]

Anyone know what happened to Maynard at eleven? "Eleven and she was gone, eleven is when we waved goodbye, eleven is standing still". Sounds to me like his mother died or he lost a woman in his life that was really important to him. Anyone know???

[triad636]

Anyone know what happened to Maynard at eleven? "Eleven and she was gone, eleven is when we waved goodbye, eleven is standing still". Sounds to me like his mother died or he lost a woman in his life that was really important to him. Anyone know???

hey buddy it couldnt have been his mother.. since his mother died shortly before he released 13th step... if you had the cd and checked the liner notes you would see this.. also if you like digging id suggest you go into the toolband newsletters and look for it... as far as "she" it could be a friend maybe someone he was close to.. but it wasnt his mom...

[LetTheRabbitsWearGlasses]

Maybe the 11 isn't an age, maybe it's the value of something, or perhaps a date.

[dawn]

Bleh-

[pathological2]

hm, thanks for the info.

[Vampurrhyi]

Actually only half of this thread is correct.

It is based on something which happened to maynard when he was 11. The song is titled Jimmy right so obviously thats a nickname for James which was his birthname.

The missing piece here is something I found on the aMOTION dvd. In maynards commentary during the song Judith he mentions something along the lines of how the song is about his mother who was paralyzed from an aneurism when he was at an early age, only strengthening her faith.

It's not exactly definite but if I put 2 and 2 together my theory would be that when maynard was around the age of 11 his mother was paralyzed due to an unfortunate 'act of god' you might say. Maynard was raised in a strong baptist community so I'd say that when this happened to his mother who was probably a devout christian, maynard began to lose his faith in what the church represented, changing his life from this point onwards.

"Under a dead ohio sky, eleven has been and will be waiting, defending his light and wondering"

Eleven is an eleven year old maynard, this verse is symbolic of the turning point where he left his former life of blind faith and began to question and find things out for himself.

So this song would be about the life of james herbert keenan and his 'spiritual' death/rebirth at the age of 11.

[Chris_Brightwell]

If you do some research, the year of his mother's aneurysm is pretty easy to find (I think it was in her obituary). Do some quick math any you'll basically confirm that she suffered the aneurysm when he was 11.

The obituary also reads, "Judy attended church in Ravenna and was a Christian through and through, living her faith." She suffered a crippling aneurysm 27 years before she died, but was still a devout Christian? No wonder MJK seems to resent mass/organized religion.

So, basically, jimmy and Judith are pretty tightly linked. It's also interesting to note that, after she died, he started singing, "Thank your God," instead of, "Fuck your God."

[SuperSteve]

It's also interesting to note that, after she died, he started singing, "Thank your God," instead of, "Fuck your God."

Wow, that's a cool little factoid.

[Noob_Jones]

"'till one and one are one, eleven"

I have always interpreted the lyric eleven as a symbol of two people side by side in a relationship and the song as being about someone waiting for their ex-love to return.

"Eleven is standing still,
Waiting for me to free him
By coming home."

[moneyisevil]

im still confused by the whole eleven thing to be honest, and didnt mjk say somewhere that prison sex is about identifying cycles of abuse in your life and that jimmy is about working through them? very very confused

[Noob_Jones]

"'till 1 and 1 are one, 11"

I think it is rather clear, and everyone knows Prison Sex is about kiddy diddlin'.

[moneyisevil]

i doubt that prison sex is about "kiddy diddlin", i mean the song especially the hidden verse explains that the person became what they most feared ya know...

abuse is a cycle that is continously passed on from say mother to child, from child to their child and so on and so forth...but it also could be about continous abuse to yourself, and prison sex is about identifying that abuse and become aware of it "it took so long to remember just what happened i was so young and vestal then you know it hurt me" it self explanitory in that context saying the person didnt realize the abuse was going on at such an early age and they feel so dead etc...

i dont know what im trying to get at its just that jimmy is a song ive never been able to fully grasp, actually its just the eleven part. listen to prison sex and think in terms of the whole abuse issue, then listen to jimmy immediatley following and the song makes sense on the whole working through the problems..."i was too scarred to realize you were the voice thats been calling me back home" its like jimmy is prison sex part 2

[Noob_Jones]

No, no, no, no, no. H. is Prison Sex Part II but that's its own thread.

[Atbr]

"'till one and one are one, eleven"

I have always interpreted the lyric eleven as a symbol of two people side by side in a relationship and the song as being about someone waiting for their ex-love to return.

"Eleven is standing still,
Waiting for me to free him
By coming home."

well I haven't looked further into this than your comment but I guess it can have to do with the time 11, and he was waiting for his mother to come home from the hospital and the clock would never tick over 11 or something.. just a thought

[Noob_Jones]

One is a symbol for a person. Two ones next to each other, eleven, therefor symbolizes a relationship.

[dark_Speedo]

http://stashbox.org/uploads/1142821118/judith250.jpg

[Cinnamon]

when i was little, 10 meant you were straight, 11 meant you were a like rubbing your penis on another penis, and 00 meant you were a lesbo

he got raped in the ass

the end

[Octopod]

Perhaps when this happened to his mother (when he was 11) it simutaneously left him vunerable to the abuse confronted in Prison Sex. So the horror of the situation would be losing your mom as she used to be ("eleven and she was gone"), and, not long after, getting raped (by a real bastard of a man) as a result of the general lack of parental protection that would result from her paralysis.

The second consequence of this would be the loss of his "anima" as a result of the abuse. The part of him that trusted people may have dissociated itself (or "herself") from conscious living, taking the pain of that experience with her into the subconscious. Hence the "dead inside" related lyrics, and the general themes of duality and a twin self present in the lyrics.

Keenan's sense of hatred for organized religion would be understandable from the standpoint of the unfairness of the paralysis alone. That he may have been raped shortly afterword would almost guarantee such feelings.

[pathological2]

"till one and one are one, eleven"

One = eleven or the little boy inside.
One = the adult me; the person I am now.

Both together as one. That's the purpose of the song. To "reunite and both go on together". From this point on, to be and to remain connected. There is NO OTHER PERSON in this song (like most Tool songs).

[Octopod]

There is NO OTHER PERSON in this song (like most Tool songs).

I agree, but sometimes I think this second self takes on a feminine form, or what Carl Jung called the "anima" (every male's feminine side)... which is why the term "Ænima" that Tool created means, in essence, to "cleanse the feminine self from shit".

While "eleven and she was gone" may mean his mother's basic disappearance into paralysis, it may have the simultaneous second meaning of his anima "leaving" as a result of the rape.

[Alex in Chains]

I didn't read this whole thread, so I apologize if someone already pointed this out, but Aleister Crowley had an affinity for the number. Apparently, he wrote, "My number is 11, as all their numbers who are of us." Don't ask me what that means; I think the Crowley/ritual magick/Enochian stuff is nonsense.

-A

[Alex in Chains]

Also, Crowley's lover died 11 March 1945.

-A

[dawn]

Bleh-


I feel that I owe this thread an explanation.

I don't get the urge to analyse any artist's life or state of being through their work. There are obvious themes that can/do resonate through their chosen medium, but I really don't seek them out. I just take it for what it is.


I used to be a fangrrrl. I could tell you almost anything about any band I was listening to at the time. After a while, those trivial facts lost importance...I honestly know jack shit about Tool as a band, and that's ok, because I love their music. This is the part of them that they offer me. I feel it would be unjust to seek out, and take much more.

[Octopod]

I feel that I owe this thread an explanation.

You shouldn't feel that you owe any tool fans anything. I think your take on the way you consume music and consider it at all is perfectly valid.

Myself, I wouldn't be nearly as interested in the autobiographical nature of the band's lyrics if they were a bit more vague and abstract. But naming a song "jimmy" when your name is "James" isn't really a move to separate your life from your art, is it? The same can be said for naming songs after your mother... he could have used any other name he liked and it would have maintained universal effect without the personal references. These moves seem to be invitations to the fans to draw parallels with what they can scratch up from Mr. Keenan's personal life. It is he that has made this a personal matter, not the fans, so I see the obsession with his persona by many to be understandable.