Its Not Bill Hicks, Its Jesus

[We're Blind]

i just got sick of everyone thinking that this song was about bill hicks. the main deal with this song is the fact that it's a sattire, its not exactly a nice eulogy. tool is and was a fan of bill hicks (AEnima refers to arizona bay, a cd title and joke about LA by bill hicks and the intro to third eye has small clips by bill hicks). i'm sure that because tool loved bill so much, they thought that he had a lot more than just "nothing to say." that said, there's a lot of information pointing to jesus. jesus was "above the crowd" and he "lead the way", but more importantly is the part about dying for a person, "will you die for me, don't u fucking lie" jesus died for our sins *cough*. also the part, "get off your fucking cross", and as far as i know, bill hicks wasn't crusafied. the NEXT fool martyr, so this song was about a fool martyr, once again jesus, not bill hicks. you must be crusafied for your sins and your lies, again jesus.

don't be a fool, wrap your tool

[ignore-reality]

i agree, for what it is/isn't worth...

[4th Eye]

Maybe they tried to make it look like it's about Jesus. Same thing with Stinkfist. It looks like it's about fisting but it isn't, I think. I don't know....whatever. It could be about anyone..

[eslupminoyler]

In every song Maynard writes about Jesus he in no way mean's exactly what the words say. Maynard know's much of what the bible says and he would never mean "He had alot of nothing to say." What he does is use such a powerful and opinionated subject, which is Jesus to give greater emphasis to his true meaning. Take the song Sober for example. I believe he is talking in 3rd person/idealistic. In this song he puts many point across that in an off-hand way congregate to a larger meaning much like Robert Frost in "Birches" if anyone has read it. So he uses God, and the media, or countless other susceptible conduits to relate his views. I haven't heard or read one song of his where the main character or topic is bashed plainly without a lesson.
When I first read this song I thought just as you did. Then I realized he wanted us to think this song was satanic. Why else would he use plain simple English to crucify such a powerful and erudite being such as Jesus.
It is a jolly folly to think of one so inefficently defficient. So trivialized and disposed. Maynard knows he had alot to say. The main exogitation should be if he believed it. I do.
Peace
Denver

[crackerjack]

Like I said on another thread, it seems like he mentions a cross, and crucifiction, then everyone assumes it's about Jesus. Ever heard of metaphors?

[eslupminoyler]

In most cases what seems true and obvious is usually just the easier path or perception that leads to a false or non-virtuous reality because there is no reality which isn't perceived. So an accurate perception is more important than a dysfunctional reality, which only makes sense if one's reality is already dismal, because how can someone have an accurate perception and a dysfunctional reality.
To obtain such a view is different from head to head. Read how it is, don't read between the lines. Think between the lines, don't think how it is. METAPHORS!
DC

[ElvID Curse]

I have a great affinity for this song because as we can all see it is a controversial portal into the mind of the greatest philosopher ever. (Maynard) Now contradicting your self is easy to do and perhaps the thoughts come to quickly. Now if there were no reality so to speak than a dysfunctional one would exist no where. just to clear that up. Further more I think a strong message of good lies beneath the scaled surface of this ballad. And I believe that this message is to encourage self exploration and individuality. I don't believe maynard was trying to de-construct an already tainted image of christ, or contradict himself belittleing bill hicks. Perhaps you are someone above the crowd, but would you die for anyone?...

[eslupminoyler]

hmm, you would be so right there buddy if I said or meant that only a dysfunctional reality could exist. You seem to have a closed mind for such progressive statements. I was just itterating how relative perception is to reality, and as I just said they feed off of eachother, a certain reality cannot exist without a certain perception. For example, if I was in hell right now but my perception of it was rather optimistic and happy then I am in no way shape or form experiencing hell from an individual perspective. So my positive jovial perception dominates my reality even if others think it is hopeless. Oh yeah what you said towards the end of your post, was very similar to what I wrote 3 or 4 posts earlier titled "It's not about Jesus." Cuz some other dude was so adamant that it was about him.

[Hogpile]

The song is about Jesus. As far as Maynard knowing the bible, that part I agree with. But so do I. I've read the whole bible, it being force fed to me my entire youth. I would have to say that I have rarely read about anyone that had LESS to say then the accursed Jesus Christ. What did he really say that had any value, or had any different message then "prophets" before him? Jesus was a trickster, a motivational speaker, a fraud. Just like say, L Ron Hubbard and all his clones. Jesus had alot to say alright, but it all added up nothing. As in nothing worthwhile. As in nothing any free-minded idividual would believe. Told us how you weren't afraid to die, so, so long. God being god, and Jesus being God, knowing all along that when he was born human as Christ would be crucified for our sins, and that he would rise again in three days. Why then are you so suprised to hear your own eulogy? Who else but God could hear his own Eulogy?

[eslupminoyler]

the obvious answer to this question is God. If this was true then this would be the first time Maynard's point was clear and concise. He seems to usually allude do a deeper meaning with metaphors revealing what isn't obvious. I doubt it is really about God.
if what you and the majority of the posters say is correct on this angle then this song just comes down to Maynard's opinion that God did have alot to say it just didnt mean shit.
I don't believe this. Maynard said, "Would you die for me? dont you fucking lie." unless maynard is talking just for himself this makes no sense, because God did die for him.
No one has yet to truly change my opinion.

[Alex99]

I think Maynard is playing off the double meaning of the word "die". In this song he could be refering a kind of "fuck off and leave me alone" kind of death or maybe even a supreme death and one which doesn't involve being reborn. Hilter isn't dead as long as his ideas still exist and neither is Jesus and in this way it works for both of this two with equal effectiveness. I therefore think that it's about death to the ideas which have outlived the two figures.

[paraflux]

Go ahead and think its bashing Jesus if you like, if thats what makes sense to you. But there are a few things in the song that lead me to think that it is not about either Mr. Hicks or Jesus Christ. Hell, its not even really about a person in particular. It's about people and their desires to follow blindly.

Did Jesus go on rants? Did he point the finger at everyone but his own heart? I don't think so. As much as Maynard talks about Christ, he never says anything directly derogatory about the man. What he does mock is people today and their so-called relationship with Christ. "Fuck your God, Your loyal Christ" is to say Fuck YOUR version of God because it sucks, not because you shouldnt have a relationship there, we all should. Its just supposed to mean something more than it does in churches today.

The whole song is written using Christ as a metaphor. Who is the one that has all the followers? Then who better to use as an example in order to get people to start questioning what they are believing? Get off your fucking cross, we need the fucking space to nail the next fool martyr... Its all about following people and as soon as they are done we have another person we put up on a pedestal to follow, because they have a strong voice, and we can identify with them.

It kinda sucks that people think this is about Jesus and it ends there. There's another whole dimension of meaning that is missed when that happens.

[Hogpile]

Did Jesus rant? Come on man. Who else has had a larger and more adverse impact on the world from ranting than Jesus Christ? All he did was rant. Parables, and sermons, and performing miracles. Pointing his finger at pharacees and corrupt tax collectors and government officals. Took a stand on every little thing........and so loud. As far as the song asking "would you die for me? Don't you fucking lie!" I think that verse is from a Christian's point of view. I'll follow the teachings of a supposed savior and let a book do my thinking for me, but goddamn it you better be right. You better not let me down God, there better be a heaven. If Jesus isn't god, then I lived in vain. I don't see why this song being about the downfall of Christian beliefs is so hard for everyone to believe. Maynard in my opinion is obsessed with Christianity and the bullshit pertaining to it.

[paraflux]

You know what I have never thought about it like that. Maybe your assumption that it is about Christ is correct, but I still think it centers around how stupid followers are. Hell, if Jesus existed, he had the consciousness. Which means he was down. Are people 2000 years from now going to be writing Eulogies for Maynard? Perhaps, but that doesnt mean they should tear down the guy does it? Just the viewpoint of the lyrics makes it seem more like the thoughts of a stupid follower. They cant remember what he said but it was strong and loud. And I never thought about the dont you fuckin lie part like that. Makes sense.

[neveragain]

I'll agree.......with PARAFLUX here, the song is ambigous for a reason, it can be whoever we think it may be, but I think the important part is the message. It is apparent to all of us that alot of Maynard's lyrics are related to religion, so the obvious choice would be Christ here, however, I view Maynards lyrics exactly how I view religious scripture: The names and pinpoints don't mean anything to me, only the underlying message, or lesson of the overall piece. In this case I would have to go with Maynard exploiting blind followers affore mentioned by Paraflux, it makes sense, why should we continue to pry past that. Bill Hicks, Jesus, Kurt Cobain (C'mon), it doesn't make a difference, what we hear is Maynards opinion of whoever is being spoken of, that's what is important. We'll probably never know by the way, I'm sure it is about a specific person, but if we knew, that would ruin this fun.

[Hogpile]

I agree that some of the song sounds like a follower of someone "above the crowd" lamenting of being betrayed by a matyr. But the lamanting from my point of view isn't sincere, its sarcastic. I think Maynard is poking fun of people who put so much trust in such and bullshit belief and then act suprised when it turns to shit. Where he says I could'nt quite recall what it was you had said to me, like I care anyhow, that shows that he never took the subject of the song seriously anyway, and thats what leads me to believe that the song is concerning a "fuck you" approach to Jesus Christ.

[neveragain]

Originally posted by Hogpile
I agree that some of the song sounds like a follower of someone "above the crowd" lamenting of being betrayed by a matyr. But the lamanting from my point of view isn't sincere, its sarcastic. I think Maynard is poking fun of people who put so much trust in such and bullshit belief and then act suprised when it turns to shit. Where he says I could'nt quite recall what it was you had said to me, like I care anyhow, that shows that he never took the subject of the song seriously anyway, and thats what leads me to believe that the song is concerning a "fuck you" approach to Jesus Christ.

Interesting point, that line you picked, is it from Maynard's personal point of view, or through the audience of the subject. Hmmmm, now your talkin'

...

[Hogpile]

One thing that always came to me when I was listening to the song, is that although the persons view the song discusses is obviously angry and let down at such a fake "leading the way" the song is from someone's point of view that was never really part of the group of followers, but outside of the flock looking at them mindlessly following a facade. I always thought the song was in a retrospective mindframe, which also leads me to believe the song is about Christ. It almosts sounds like Maynards saying Your full of shit and its obvious to me, and although I wasn't there in person to witness your "message" I can see that its a worthless act.

[neveragain]

So you think the point of view is Maynards? If that's what you think I say you have good back up to your claim. I guess too, since religion played a role in Maynard's upbringing, it could be his point of view after years of witnessing what was happening. The lashing out you were talking about. Maybe he then put it in to a context that would tell a story, much like the one of Jesus. Hmmm, Hogpile, I like where your thougts are taking me.

[Hogpile]

To me, Aenima is a very diversified album(and also my favorite Tool album). It deals with many different themes and concepts. I disagree with alot of people on here that the whole album is based on one theme. To me though, Eulogy and Hooker with a penis stand out, because these two songs seem like they're written from a similar vantage point. (probabily Maynards) Both songs have an anger and an intellectual bitterness towards people who are nothing but fakes, and I think Maynard had more to do with these songs lyrics than anyone else in the band. Ironically enough, these are also my two favorite songs on the album.

[neveragain]

Yeah, Aenima is my fav. as well, I agree that it's diverse, I think it's a mix between venting of frustration, and self-searching. Lateralus definately has a more cohesive theme that tells me Maynard is still a mite frustrated, but for the most part, he's directed all his attention to searching, for what, well we've all speculated, but anyways enough rambling, yes I agree with you

[paraflux]

I dont really think the point of view is Maynard's. In fact, I dont think very many Tool songs are from his personal perspective. I think with Tool he is more about NOT being an individual and more about being collective with his brothers in the band. He might have been a follower once, or felt convicted like christians do at one point in his life. Who cares? The song is mocking that lack of perspective that followers have. It's kinda like, "Just listen to yourself, and the crazy things you say." The followers dont really remember or care what was said, just the person had a strong voice, and they could relate easy. Here was someone to lead the way, who would die for me. How sick is that? To pass off your life and your mind to those willing to die? Selfish and perverse.

[Hogpile]

From my standpoint, I don't think this song is about followers. I think it is a blast against being a matyr. Its a blast about living a life so futile that your death meant more than your life.

[paraflux]

You are not wrong, and you dont have to say you disagree. You bring up very good points, but the mockery of the way followers think is something I cannot deny.

[Rik]

I heard a theory Maynard put Henry Rollins in the form of Jesus and that the dying of this Jesus stands for the dying of the friendship between MJK and Henry Rollins.

I think it's pretty obvious Maynard has some hatefull feelings to Jesus, but maybe that's just one side of the story. We all know how far some of his lyrics dig in his personal life (H., Jimmy)