Charles Manson

[tiphera]

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but anybody else ever thought of Charles Manson as an influence for the lyrics of this song?

Some of the lines really fit, like:
"Not all martyrs see divinity. But at least you tried."
or
"Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice that was strong and loud.
We'll miss him.
Ranting and pointing his finger
At everything but his heart."
and especially:
"Will you? Will you now?
Would you die for me?"

There's a book titled "Will you die for me?" about Charles Manson.

And of course, this is the most interesting of all:

"NYROCK:
Speaking of myths, you ventured into acting and imitated Charles Manson on the Ben Stiller show. A few critics claimed your portrait of Charles Manson was so intense and too real to not be upsetting. What is your take on Manson? Charles, not Marilyn....

MAYNARD:
I think the media made Manson, turned him into some larger than life figure and surrounded him with mystery and some shady glamour. I don't even think that he was really a psychopath, that he had any form of mysterious power. He was just a frustrated guy who wanted to be a rock star. He dreamed about having groupies, getting laid and the whole thing how people imagine rock stars live. The kind of stuff you read in the tabloids. Nobody gave him a record deal and he latched on to some drugged-out people who were so spaced out on acid that they did what he told them and went and killed some people like he told them. I can't believe that the media didn't see that part of him and turned him into this larger than life figure, almost a living legend.

NYROCK:
But Manson was a monster, wouldn't you agree?

MAYNARD:
Of course, he was a monster. It's his fault that terrible crimes were committed, but I think there's nothing great about him. For 35 years people treated him like dirt and then he freaked out. We didn't glamorize him in any way. We made fun of his image as a psychopath."

Discuss.

[vic1torious]

it's interesting, and as is know, tools songs can mean whatever you want them to. but basically I see that Eulogy is definitely about Jesus. C. or J. Christ.

[tiphera]

it's interesting, and as is know, tools songs can mean whatever you want them to. but basically I see that Eulogy is definitely about Jesus. C. or J. Christ.

I think there were several characters that had something in common.
L Ron Hubbard and Charles Manson, maybe Christ and maybe even Maynard himself.
Eulogy is addressing them, and anyone else similar to them.

[ontologist]

I know the theory about Jesus or some other authority figure. After reading about bill hicks a lot, I came across the idea that it might be about bill hicks. All though it is in a negative way and seeing as tool liked bill hicks maybe its meant to be some sort of joke? Or am I missing something here?

“He had a lot to say.
He had a lot of nothing to say.
We'll miss him.”

Well this makes sense. He dose talk a lot. He died in 1994 and the band liked him a lot so they would miss him. The “nothing to say” thing doesn’t really fit though.

“So loooooong!
We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well so looooooong.
Don't cryyyyy.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.”

Bill hicks died at cancer of 33. For the last few years of his life he new he was dying, but he didn’t really care. He did spend a lot of time telling people his point of view of how the world was fucked and, in some ways how things could be fixed. To him, maybe not many people realized this. So he thought of him self a bit like a martyr. But because of his early death he never got far with this. But at least he tried.

“Standing above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud.
We'll miss him.”

That’s pretty simple. He was a stand up comedian. Then he died.

“You took a stand on every little thing”

Yes. He dose do that. But after this the song is harder to think of as about bill hicks, and seams to be more about an authority figure…

My 2 cents…
And my first post.