Interpretation of the forthcoming album.

[Christoff]

When I first started listening to TOOL, and coming on this forum, I knew very little about the underlying themes and ideas in the music. Through the music and through this forum have learned a phenomenal amount.

The most obvious example is 46&2, which uses Jung's concept of the Shadow. Reading about this has led me to read about him and his ideas, and the amount of synchronicity I have experienced subsequently is life-affirming. This is only one example of many.

I know that I am one of many who has had this type of experience. TOOL has helped us develop as people. So the point I wish to make is this;

If they released an album of similar content to the past two it will lead to two weeks of frantic postings of everyone's individual interpretations and because we all know so much more than we did before, the songs will be interpreted accurately and quickly and the magic will be gone and all this bloody waiting would be an anti-climax.

I can see this next album being of a new breed. I think it will be, to use Maynard's favourite term, more "right-brained", and a lot less open to logical interpretation. I doubt it will be a synthesis of other peoples ideas (Hicks, Jung, Leary, and on and on), and much more a true representation of who TOOL are as artists. This might lead to a lot of fans feeling very disappointed, waiting for 4 years and then being presented with something unpalletable.

No matter what the album is like, I think we should take the approach of not interpreting it in a left-brain, logical fashion, such as matching lyrics up with books we have read, but express our ideas in terms of what it makes us 'feel'.

Thoughts? (preferably right-brained...)

[Spongebob]

maynard always talks about how the words are secondary to the music, so i guess the lyrical meaning of songs is something they prefer to be looked into later.

i am interested in the songs meanings to an extent, but i plan to listen to the next album many times without really thinking about what the lyrics are getting at until later on, some people will look up the lyrics or try and figure out what hes saying and what it means, some people enjoy doing that, whatever floats your boat.

but just listening to the music and the feelings the listener gets is important, it will be very different from what tool felt when they wrote it and the lyrical meaning behind the songs.

[el rancho ovulate]

I'm more interested in the music than the lyrics..

[placidium]

Actually I believe that, unlike AEniima, Lateralus had very little to do with the philosophies and writings of others. AEnima taught us to think for ourselves, to wonder, and to never accept a lesser life. Lateralus had a direct affect on us; enjoy every moment of your life, every bit you can, just because you can, with the main theme being "communication"; a way to improve life among others (and ever since I've heard Lateralus, I've become a very friendly, jolly person and life is so much better than when I was so cold). Straight from Maynard's heart and into our's, and probably Danny's, Justin's, and Adam's.

The next album will run even deeper than that in terms of lyrics, I'm certain. For all of us who have reached the level of non-belief and questioning (versus reasoning and accepting), this album will probably be the "next step" after learning to think for yourself, since Maynard himself has apparently reached this mindset in a masterful way. The lyrics will be for all of us who have reached that level as well, and only we--the ones on the road to achieving a better existance--will be able to understand what he will mean.

That's what I think, at least.

PS:

Ironically, I'm describing Maynard from the viewpoint of a follower of the messiah, but I don't feel it that way...I feel that TooL (not Maynard alone, but TooL as a whole, with no one being less significant than anyone else because the music is just as inspring as the lyrics) is a person (the future me, to be exact). It's as if, in the future, I have found all of the answers to every question I have ever had, and TooL (the future me) has come back to take me to that state of mind at a much sooner point in my life; prolonging my greater existance. I feel like I have found out more about myself and everything else because of TooL.

[Christoff]

^ I am glad that someone put in words what I was actually trying to say. ^

I went to see a Montiverdi opera tonight. Fantastic.

[UtUmNo1]

TOOL has helped us develop as people.
...Thoughts?

I think you should get a life.

If you need a rock band to help you 'develop' you haven't got a chance.

Loser.

[the usual]

nice thread

[el rancho ovulate]

nice thread

It was until you posted in it

[TheInsideSource]

In my opinion, people shouldn't listen to new music expecting something...The music should be allowed to overwhelm the person and judgements can be made after... If you prepare for this album, thinking whether it will be similar to Aenima/Lateralus or whether the lyrics will evolve from Lateralus, you could be very disappointed.

All I feel right now, is that the guys are in a very different place (mentally) from when they recorded the last album and that maybe this album "could" bring on a new Tool sound altogether... But I try not to think about it too much...

Goddamn, it's exciting thinking about the prospect of new Tool music!

[Christoff]

^ Again, I am glad someone put my thoughts into words. ^

I think you should get a life.

If you need a rock band to help you 'develop' you haven't got a chance.

Loser.

I do not think it is that simple really. They made us aware that we can develop as people. Come on now, the one sad thing about this world is people think they cannot change, cannot be better, and are on a spiral downwards. When you are in that frame of mind, Lateralus (especially the last five minutes of the song) cannot fail to have a liberating effect on you. The ending is pure motivational music.

[UtUmNo1]

This is not a black and white world
To be alive I say the colours must swirl
And I believe that maybe today
We will all get to appreciate
The beauty of gray

[Bill_Hix]

Actually I believe that, unlike AEniima, Lateralus had very little to do with the philosophies and writings of others. AEnima taught us to think for ourselves, to wonder, and to never accept a lesser life. Lateralus had a direct affect on us; enjoy every moment of your life, every bit you can, just because you can, with the main theme being "communication"; a way to improve life among others (and ever since I've heard Lateralus, I've become a very friendly, jolly person and life is so much better than when I was so cold). Straight from Maynard's heart and into our's, and probably Danny's, Justin's, and Adam's.

The next album will run even deeper than that in terms of lyrics, I'm certain. For all of us who have reached the level of non-belief and questioning (versus reasoning and accepting), this album will probably be the "next step" after learning to think for yourself, since Maynard himself has apparently reached this mindset in a masterful way. The lyrics will be for all of us who have reached that level as well, and only we--the ones on the road to achieving a better existance--will be able to understand what he will mean.

That's what I think, at least.

PS:

Ironically, I'm describing Maynard from the viewpoint of a follower of the messiah, but I don't feel it that way...I feel that TooL (not Maynard alone, but TooL as a whole, with no one being less significant than anyone else because the music is just as inspring as the lyrics) is a person (the future me, to be exact). It's as if, in the future, I have found all of the answers to every question I have ever had, and TooL (the future me) has come back to take me to that state of mind at a much sooner point in my life; prolonging my greater existance. I feel like I have found out more about myself and everything else because of TooL.

Dead on.

[Bill_Hix]

I think you should get a life.

If you need a rock band to help you 'develop' you haven't got a chance.

Loser.


Dude shut the fuck up, just because some reads about the Jungian Theory, or about Freud because a band suggested it, doesn't mean they are complete slaves to the band. No one ever said they needed Tool to develop, they said it helped them develop.

Even if someone lived their life by tool, and thought they had a really good life, even if the only thing they owned was a stereo, some tool cds, food and water, who the fuck are you to judge them?

Fucking choke you pinto cunt.

[UtUmNo1]

I'm going to agree with UtUmNo1. They don't make anyone be anything. You should be yourself and whatever comes out from what is inside of you. Sure, they may be a catalyst to your own progression of what you are currently into but ultimately, you make your own choices of where you and the world are going.


What I meant but with more words.

Fucking choke you pinto cunt.

Don't get your knickers in a twist Billy Boy. Isn't pinto a type of horse?

[OftenLost]

If Maynard read this thread he'd be laughing his ass off at all of you.

[InertUniformity]

YES maynard would defintely laugh...we all know maynard, and we know he finds humor in our bogus interpretations of his music.......on the contrary nobody knows maynard, and even suggesting a reaction (laughter or otherwise) to this page and its content, is overtly pompous and ignorant, now burn in hell you cretin sophist

[Christoff]

If Maynard read this thread he'd be laughing his ass off at all of you.

I can live with that.

[Hogpile]

To the author of this thread:

I enjoyed reading your insights on what/why/how Tool has helped you learn or experience this or that. Picidium you also made some interesting claims. However:

I found what both of you said to be somewhat alarming. I find it alarming for the same reasons I find bible banging born agains, reciting rhetoric from church sermons and bible studies alarming. To experience things in life, whether from people, or from music, movies, etc, and learn from those experiences is one thing. To have those things lead you this way or that, from pure fascination is another. Nether of you are the first people, nor the last, I'm sure, that will post this 'worship' of the band on this forum. But I wish it would be the last time.

Listening to Tool isn't going to teach you how to interact with the world. It isn't going to teach you how to raise your kids, succeed in your careers, or how to find what matters to you. Sure, Maynard, and the rest of the band members say interesting things. Some of which I agree with, some of which I don't. But blindly feeling that whatever they say in their music is some 'life lesson' is not only alarming, but cheating yourself out of free thinking. So what if Maynard says this and that about life? He's automatically right? What, he's in contact and communication with some divine form of thought, that he shares with us pathetic mortals while in his human form? Uh, no. He's a singer in a rock band, last time I checked. That's it.

It's almost frustratingly ironic, reading post after post of these similar types of ideas, that somehow Tool is not only a rock band, but some soul searching finality of self evolution. It's not. They're really not that deep. They're really not that divine. The irony that blows me away with threads like these, is that even the band themselves have said to the public in general, these things I'm saying to you now. They aren't trying to lead anyone anywhere. They don't want to be your medicine man, your pastor, your parents, or your fucking guidance counsler. They just want to make music, and make it the way they want to make it.

So for the love of god, buy and support Tool's new album. Like it, love it, learn from it, whatever. But try listening to the shit, and then maybe, just maybe, listen to something else. Go read some books. Find every angle, every asset, every vantage point you find on everything you can get your eager hands on, and realize life for yourselves. At least do these things before you post another one of these goddamn "Maynard told me so" threads. Their albums are just that: Albums. Not declerations of independence, not bibles, not psychology classes. Pressed plastic discs, with pretty good fucking music on it. That is all.

/end rant

[symbiosis]

To the author of this thread:

I enjoyed reading your insights on what/why/how Tool has helped you learn or experience this or that. Picidium you also made some interesting claims. However:

I found what both of you said to be somewhat alarming. I find it alarming for the same reasons I find bible banging born agains, reciting rhetoric from church sermons and bible studies alarming. To experience things in life, whether from people, or from music, movies, etc, and learn from those experiences is one thing. To have those things lead you this way or that, from pure fascination is another. Nether of you are the first people, nor the last, I'm sure, that will post this 'worship' of the band on this forum. But I wish it would be the last time.

Listening to Tool isn't going to teach you how to interact with the world. It isn't going to teach you how to raise your kids, succeed in your careers, or how to find what matters to you. Sure, Maynard, and the rest of the band members say interesting things. Some of which I agree with, some of which I don't. But blindly feeling that whatever they say in their music is some 'life lesson' is not only alarming, but cheating yourself out of free thinking. So what if Maynard says this and that about life? He's automatically right? What, he's in contact and communication with some divine form of thought, that he shares with us pathetic mortals while in his human form? Uh, no. He's a singer in a rock band, last time I checked. That's it.

It's almost frustratingly ironic, reading post after post of these similar types of ideas, that somehow Tool is not only a rock band, but some soul searching finality of self evolution. It's not. They're really not that deep. They're really not that divine. The irony that blows me away with threads like these, is that even the band themselves have said to the public in general, these things I'm saying to you now. They aren't trying to lead anyone anywhere. They don't want to be your medicine man, your pastor, your parents, or your fucking guidance counsler. They just want to make music, and make it the way they want to make it.

So for the love of god, buy and support Tool's new album. Like it, love it, learn from it, whatever. But try listening to the shit, and then maybe, just maybe, listen to something else. Go read some books. Find every angle, every asset, every vantage point you find on everything you can get your eager hands on, and realize life for yourselves. At least do these things before you post another one of these goddamn "Maynard told me so" threads. Their albums are just that: Albums. Not declerations of independence, not bibles, not psychology classes. Pressed plastic discs, with pretty good fucking music on it. That is all.

/end rant

Amen to that...

[MrMcPheezy]

This is not a black and white world
To be alive I say the colours must swirl
And I believe that maybe today
We will all get to appreciate
The beauty of gray

Dude, that song owns.

[bluefire]

Is it possible to interpret an album that hasn't been released? No

[MrMcPheezy]

For all of us who have reached the level of non-belief and questioning (versus reasoning and accepting)

Whoa. You seem to be saying here that reasoning is somehow negative, and something we should be trying to get past. Am I misreading or what?

[UtUmNo1]

Dude, that song owns.

Not a fan of the band but this song and the album from which it originates are, indeed, pretty damn good.

[MrMcPheezy]

Not a fan of the band but this song and the album from which it originates are, indeed, pretty damn good.

Really? I recommend checking out their albums throwing copper and secret samadhi. Thier newer work is fucking terrible, but those two albums are pretty fucking good, and mental jewelry is alright as well. Ed is fucking incredible.

[UtUmNo1]

Mental Jewellery is indeed the shit. The only album of theirs I own.

My girl, on the other hand, has a few of their other works . . .

[MrMcPheezy]

Well, like I said, I highly recommend throwing copper and secret samadhi. If you'd care to know more about what specific songs I recommend or whatever, pm me. If not, it's all good.

[SaTaNs_LiTtLe_HeLpEr]

I'm more interested in the music than the lyrics.
Right on. And I thought I was the only one.

[Christoff]

I have no wish to 'worship' the band. They have had a positive effect on me, and I am thankful for that. I do not feel this classes me a 'loser'.

I do agree with you Hogpile, and I think the forum itself is the fundemental root of the problem.

[paraflux]

I'm more interested in the music than the lyrics..

One of the things I like most about Tool is the fact that the music and lyrics are one and the same. They are pretty inseperable.

[champion]

hey, chill out everybody.

[bluefire]

One of the things I like most about Tool is the fact that the music and lyrics are one and the same. They are pretty inseperable.

I dunno about that, the music stands pretty well on its own. Not to mention almost all of the music to Lateralus was written without Maynards input. I'd like to point to Triad as a showcase that their music can be powerful with no lyrics.

[paraflux]

I'm not saying that neither of them can or cant stand on their own. I'm just saying that the music and lyrics are constantly reflecting each other.

[Hogpile]

I'm not saying that neither of them can or cant stand on their own. I'm just saying that the music and lyrics are constantly reflecting each other.

I agree with this completely. That's Tool's best talent in my opinion: Interlocking themes. Lyrics fit the music, and vice-versa.

[UtUmNo1]

Well, like I said, I highly recommend throwing copper and secret samadhi. If you'd care to know more about what specific songs I recommend or whatever, pm me. If not, it's all good.

Thanks Pheez, but those albums are in the joint collection.

The later ones I have bought for the girl are pretty damn bad though.

[Nathan6887]

The worship of tool , in particular Maynard is certainly unhealthy. I think you should appreciate what they have added to you life and leave it at that. It is the sign of a charlatan or black magician when one willingly accepts others (minions) devotion to thier personality.

[Zeus]

Yes Tool taught us how to develop as human beings and Dream Theater subsequently came by and showed us that humans can make suck ass music. -1 for human development.

[saut]

I sold my Tool decoder pin on ebay a long time ago. Knowing what a song means isn't my main priority. If it's your's, then great, but it's really not a big part of the music, which is only sound really. Don't get too carried away with it.

[Carny_Handles]

damn, there's alot of bullshit on the threads as of late.. including this one.

Anyway, Christoff.. im sorry your thread tunred to utter shit by other tool fans, kinda sad eh?


I too feel like you, that tool has inspired me to research into other realms of knowedge that is not force fed down one's throat at manditory institutions.. ie school. To say however, you're a product because of 'tool' or maynards lyrics is somewhat harmful imo. You're putting maynard somewhere he dosent belong, no offence nard. The way i look at it is, i wouldnt be interested in tool's lyrics if i didnt already have something inside of me being drawn towards that way of thinking, or some of the philosopies maynard writes about... not the other way around...get my drift?

Stuff and things, well yeah im looking forward to the new tool cd, im sure it will kick ass.