Kurt Cobain?

[Big_D]

I remember when I listened to Maximum Tool, I remember hearing something about this song being a commentary on Kurt Cobain's death and the reaction of his fans. I don't know, but it sure sounds rather scathing of Nirvana fans using, "he had a lot of nothing to say" to describe Cobain.

[abefrohmn]

Heard the same thing. As far as scatching goes- good. There's a veritble fucking cult around that piece of shit. And yes, he is a piece of shit. Anyone who has a child in this world and thinks there's something so much more important and dire as to justify shooting smack and blow your brains out, is a piece of shit.

Shame that nappy-headed muskrat didn't hear reflection, maybe a child on this Earth would still have a father.

[Hogpile]

Piece of shit? Maybe. Aren't we all? Plus I hear heroin clouds the mind. If he even killed himself. And whos a bigger piece of shit? The heroin addict who died or the addict who choses to continually fuck up the childs life by sticking around? Just some food for thought.

[Big_D]

I don't know, but if this song is actually about Cobain, or martyrdom as a whole, I agree with Maynard 100%. I mean, what did Kurt Cobain do for himself, his fans, or the world by killing himself? I listened to this song and the lyrics sure match my opinion of the almost religious nature of Nirvana fans after Kurt Cobain died. It's sad that Kurt killed himself, but that doesn't make him a "hero" as people say. His death did nothing but leave a child without a father. It didn't help anyone. Perhapst also, the statement "Not all martyrs see divinity, but at least you tried" meant that Kurt's death will lose it's impact over time, and I think it did. I remember, even 3 years after his death, everyone in my school would have Kurt Cobain T-shirts as if he was some sort of great person. He made music. Now, if he made a real difference in the world, I'd understand with the quasi-worshipping.

[Hogpile]

I agree with you on some levels Big D. One thing though. I am not ashamed to say I was a pretty big Nirvana fan when he blew his brains out. I think he is an awesome lyricist and poet, although Nirvana's musical aspect leaves alot to be desired sometimes. I was sad when I learned of his death and it bummed me out that someone with so much to live for(if he cleaned up his act and got off the dope) didn't seem to realize it. But I agree, the whole matyrism shit pissed me off. He wanted to die, he's dead. I don't think he's a hero, and I don't think he should be looked at as some role model for the X generation or whatever other stupid shit the media named him. I will say this though: Kurt Cobain was not responsible for the bullshit following his death. People reacted to his death the same way they reacted to his music, and I don't think thats what he wanted. Everyone who gets into the music industry wants to become famous. He knew this. But I don't think he knew he would be dubbed the spokesman for a whole generation of degenerates. As far as him committing suicide, I don't see why everyone thinks it was anymore fucked up for him to kill himself than if anyone else does it. As far as the song being about him, I disagree. Tool might not like him, they might not like his music, but I don't think any moderately intellegent person would accuse Kurt Cobain of having nothing to say.

[neveragain]

I like some of Nirvana's music, but I don;t hold Kurt on any kind of pedistal, and did you guys hear: If the public didn't get enough reading on suffering, and misery with Kurt's journals, we have a book on the like of Layne Staley coming out soon. I loved Alice in Chains, and still do, I still occasionally listen to Nirvana, but I would much rather pop in a cd than read countless pages of crap that doesn't affect me. I don't care how much heroin Layne did, I just love his voice, his lyrics affect me, not garbage in a book. I read about my heros, but although I love Layne, and think Cobain was pretty gifted himself, they're certainly no heroes of mine, unless I was a fuckin crackhead.

[abefrohmn]

Eh, dunno, I mean at the end of the day, the guy should have got his shit together for the sake of his child. I mean, I guess that is the one of the biggest travails of victimless crimes, that it makes it possible to wreak so much personal havoc. Even Pony-Boy (MnM) got his shit together for the sake of his youngin. Maybe if Kurt would have had a brush with the law, he'd still be around making horrible music, and a kid wouldn't have to wonder why in the fuck he grew up without his father in its life.

It's important to seperate achievements and art from the artist themselves. It's very poignant that people are propounding that here. Speaks highly of you that your not romatacizing people's poor personal choices as tragically hip. I guess that's part of the ethos of Tool, that it's not about them, but about the music. Thus their not appearing in videos and being media-leary. And may in fact go to the heart of the meaning of the song.

[Hogpile]

I agree with all of you on some points, but my point is that, in my opinion Kurt Cobain never tried to be a martyr, and he wasn't trying to be a spokesman for anyone, he was just placed in those positions by idiots who couldn't think for themselves. I never once heard him mention suicide or that he wasn't afraid to die before he killed himself. I don't think he was looking to be immortilized, I think he just wanted to die. As far as hurting the kid, I think thats truth and and untrue to some degree. He was strung out all the time, and so was Cortney Love. There are plenty of parents out there with similar problems or who are abusive that would do their kids more good than bad by dying themselves. I think thats how Cobain looked at his death and how it would affect his daughter. He knew she would morn his death, but I think he thought he was no good to her living. I agree that it was selfish and shallow to kill himself, but fuck it. Its said and done.