what maynard is trying to say..

[eknick]

to me this song is directed to all the ignorant christians out there who tries to preach me on a daily basis. I go to a christian school(just for the education) and every morning i have to listen to their bullshits like "god is around you" "god is holly" blah blah. for fucks sake

religion is created by man and god is all in your head.
its basic purpose is to teach people about love and forgiveness.

and i think tool is saying that modern day priests and believers have gone just alittle too far with their believes against what it was supposed meant to do. im saying this becuz i have experienced situations first handly when priests were talkin in a way as if they are holy man that will die for you any day.they wont

this song should b played to every christian out there and have a long hard think, cuz literally maynard is saying the religion you have chosen and being to addicted to can abandon you anytime anyday.

GOD for me is just a figure of something to have faith in and it keeps you driving and motivated, loving and forgiving.
tool believes in "god" and i do too, just in a different way

[Hogpile]

The word god is an abrevation for Gift Of Death. I don't think many people know this.

[spiralion]

Nice one Hogpile, I never thought of it that way before. I don't know the exact day or period of time it happened really, but in a matter of speaking the day GOD died was a great day for me, such a relief that I could finally think for myself and do things without fear of being judged.

Learning god at a very small age is dangerous to ones mental health.

[eknick]

Originally posted by spiralion
Learning god at a very small age is dangerous to ones mental health.

cant agree more, now days "god" can b very misleading

[normz]

So glad i stumbled onto this thread i too attend a catholic high school so i can get a "good education" and i am absoloutly sick to death of having the whole God thing pushed down my throat. I mean hey i have to put up with it because I'm choosing to go to a Catholic school, but it's just so frustrating seeing intelligent people mindlessly following, never questioning and i think is what makes them fairly stupid in a way because they do not question things just accept them. I realise though that for some people their "god" is comforting and that to question what you have been taught since the beggining of time is hard. "Think for yourself question authority" that what its alll about u cant get told by some dude how to live or life or what is right and wrong u need to experience it for yourself, you need to think for yourself. What have we to learn from a corrupt hypocrytical church. Or what about this from the toolband website

He that is wounded in the stones (testicles), or hath his privy member (penis) cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD. - Deuteronomy 23:1

ok so since when were guys without dicks not allowed in heaven is there an 11th commandment "Thou needs thy dick to get to heaven"

Ok im rambling now but i must say i was forced to attend the 2 hour school mass on friday and i must say all i had was Eulogy stuck in my head LOL but u know i think if you tried to play that song to every single christian they just wouldnt get it because they are sooo blind to the truth. Well i think ive done enough rambling for the day

spiral out

[Hogpile]

Hey Normz, I feel for you man. I went to a Christian school until 8th grade. I think religion in general, but especially Christianity(being that its the largest form of mind control in the world) is a evil that defies explanation. I think its funny that in a society where spanking your kid is deemed child abuse, you can still take your toddlers to a "hallowed" temple where they will be told that all who do not follow in the footsteps of Christ will be cast into damnation for eternity. As if telling a little kid that his every move, decision, thought and action is monitored by God for instant judgement and disipline isn't mind control enough, churches then go on to further teach the really crucial points of religion: Don't ask questions. You don't need to know. Shit on anyone who doesn't believe how you believe. Everything is part of God's intricate plan. Fuck that. Some call it church, I call it communism.

[sircorn]

I Have finally found some minds that are worthy of being converesed with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I give big AMEN to you guys. I dont attend a christian school, but i feel your pain. i'm on the verge of being confermed ( my parents want me to) and i have to go through some gay crap to get there. One of the last things i had to do was attend ash wednesday, a few days ago. Up to that point i was teetering on the edge of my faith. "lukewarm" christian, is a good way to put it. Not truely believeing, but not denying. Tool was of course the reason of my questioning. I went up to get the ashes rubbed on my forehead, as required of me.

About 10 minutes later people were going up to get communion. I watched as several of my friends, thses being people who have denyed or doubted god and jesus' exsistence, go up to get communion. Obviously I didnt go to get it, since its something i dont truely believe in. Then it hit me. The lie ive been teetering on. I couldn't help but laugh at those hypocratic fools that have denyed god and gone to get the "body of christ." I understood now that this is all a crock of shit. I saw the blind leading the blind before this, but now i saw it on a personal level. Thank god for people like MJK and all the members of tool, that question authority. Or should i say thank satan, since he doesnt exsist either? Oh well lol, its all a crock of shit.

[plz excuse my dumbness upon writing this. I was/am rather buzzed hehe.]

[edit] i realize now that i made sense up until the last few sentences lol

[sircorn]

Originally posted by Hogpile
Some call it church, I call it communism.

I wouldn't say communism per say, but certainly the dictatership that the red's have shown over the years. Comunism wasn't supposed to be the way it has turned out in the 20th century. Read up on marx a bit. Or do they not teach that in your school? Another scholar that believed in freedom for all. Adam smith would also be a goodthing to read apon.

[normz]

yeah i too had to go to the ash wednesday mass and get dirt smeared across my head in an effort to show my love for jesus or some shit like that i am already confirmed and baptised but i had no choice and was really young i go up and receive "the body of christ" still but i see it as a bit of wafer shit and a sip of wine nothing more nothing less. It is funny tho coz atm were doing atheism VS christianity and we were watching a video debate and the main argument for christianity is that if there is no god who created the universe ummmm someone hasnt heard of the big bang theory have they? i hate the way the catholic church feels they can dismiss science altogether. Also contradictory how we can be taught religion 1 lesson then the next lesson we do learn about communism and marxism and dictatorships then we can go into sex ed doesnt it all seem a lil contradictory. well thats my view on it all

[diogenes]

Originally posted by Hogpile
I think religion in general, but especially Christianity(being that its the largest form of mind control in the world) is a evil that defies explanation.
I think when we westerners say the world religion, we think of an institution, like the catholic church. But some eastern religions view it as a way of communicating with the universe and not as a set of rules, like we do. Of course, there are still some abuses, like the caste system in India, but what i'm trying to say is that religion in itself isn't evil, just institutions that breed fanaticism and suicide bombers. A great many people need something in their lives to believe in, because they're weak-willed or whatever, and if deprived of their faith, there will result either state-worship, like hitler's youth brigades, or stupid(er) religions like scientology. So, to make a long story short, religions aren't bad, just institutions.

[sircorn]

dio,

Yes institutions that force religion apon youth that have no concept of anythning they arn't told by someone else.

[paraflux]

I understand and empathize with all of you bitter towards Christianity and their version of God. But understand it is ONLY their version, and nothing else. The danger of learning about this version of God at a young age (like myself, my dad and his dad were preachers) is that it can push you totally away from any thoughts about a higher power. There IS God, however, the God I know is not a being, and is one we can communicate with and use the energy from.
I despise the pharisees of today (christians). But dont let it get you down. Ignore if you can.

[Nucleus]

I can see what your saying Paraflux. I saw that happen a lot when I attended a catholic high-school for a year. It seemed the kids there were worse than than kids who went to public school. So the constant badgering must cause a reflex reaction to do the opposite. But, then again all kids react that way until they become more educated and mature.

[sircorn]

Paraflex,

That is what im trying to say. Not to totally deny, but not blindly follow. ( this applies to me at my age ) I want to remain open to new ideas and suggestions, until I make MY OWN judgement, if I even make a judgement.

Who knows? --- Thats the way it should be. Who knows?

[carrot]

on a tool-unrelated-note but referring to the foolishness of christianity:

I think George Carlin said it best when he revised the Ten Commandments to Three.


"Thou shalt always be honest and faithful to the provider of thy nookie...
Thou shalt try reeeal hard not to kill anyone, unless of course they pray to a different invisible man from the one you pray to...

... and one additional commandment- Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself."


just thought i would add my 2 cents on relgion... err carlin's 2 cents

/mockery

[diogenes]

A lot of people here (including me) seem to have attended Catholic schools..

just an observation....

[Druzzel Dermgo]

Okay, guys(and gals) my girlfriend is very catholic, and a couple weeks ago, I showed her these lyrics, and at the time, I was an avid Christian. Things have changed, not neccisary for me to continue - anyway, I showed her these lyrics, and after she read them, she looked at me and told me that this song isn't about Jesus, or any other [hypocritical] christian. It's about people in general. I know no t one person who doesn't know me who would die for me. Would you? Don't fucking lie. We are a very me-based society. I come first, and to hell with all of you. I know; I've felt that way. Anyway, this song only points out that anyone who says that they will die for you from a podium, is lying. They don't know you, and will sooner watch you die than take your bullet. If they take the bullet, they can't preach and make their money.

And yes, I don't agree with Christianity, or Bhudism, or Muslim, or any other form of organised religion. George Carlin said it right. Kepp your religion to yourself, and don't mess with another man's woman...or for you girls, another girl's man.

Peace, I'm out

[Hogpile]

Hey man, do me a favor. Go to the dictionary and look up communism. Now, go get YOURSELF a fucking book on Marxism. Now if its not two much to ask look up what heaven is in the old testament(of the bible, of course) and then look it up in the new testament and see the changes that Jesus brought about to "heaven" What better example is there of communism than the Christian way of life, not to mention the afterlife according to the followers of christ. One more thing. One of the most annoying things to me in the world, is when people start flapping their fucking lips like they know something, when they are ignorant. You obviously don't know shit about the bible, Christianity, or the concept of Marxism, if you are telling me read about communism.

[Temporary Light]

I think "God" was created to keep our society in order. People think that if there is truly this "holy, all knowing, all powerful being" they will try and stay in order and remain "good people" And as I'm sure you can all tell that well, in many cases, this has worked.

[FlamingEye]

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU, I THINK THAT IS WHAT THIS SONG IS ABOUT ALSO

[Savoie]

I think that everyone is entitled to their own opinions of course, but I do happen to disagree with the psychological concept that god is a subconscious creation of the human mind. Personally I believe that there is an underlying standard established in the universe we live in. I find it hard to imagine that almost the entire world could create religions with obvious parallels in their structures without some form of inspiration. I'm not trying to infringe on anyone's beliefs in any way, I just happen to disagree and believe firmly in the existence of god. There are too many things in my life that have happened for me to believe they could have occured without god existing.

On the other hand, religion seemed to me at one point to be completely false because of the inherent flaws in it. The interesting thing here is that in the example of Christianity, after reading the bible 3 times through as an atheist, I discovered that what a large part of visible Christians did and taught was against the doctrines taught in their bible. What you see is humans perverting and disgracing a concept as beautiful as what was originally laid down by Jesus. So I think that before anyone offhand says, "religion is a fancy of the mind" without having any sociological proof or without having done any psychological study or analysis themselves, that they should check out the doctrines taught in any of those religions. I would strongly urge christianity because I can't speak for all of them, but do know that it's easy to label religion as a creation of the insecure masses when you don't know anything about religion itself. I'm not sure if anyone is doing that so perhaps this was wasted, but i felt inclined to type it.

[mr. fuck You]

i applaud thee.....
there are too many (blank) who believe because they listen they are intellectually inclined enough to speak without futher investigative thought in a response to something that is actually that simple. unfortunately, nothing can be done to overcome this infraction, so bite your lip my friend....

[OPUNAESALA]

my best guess at the meaning of the song is..

"not all martyrs see divinity"
"ranting and pointing his finger at everything but his heart"

i think maynard is trying to say that not all so called "christians" will go to heaven!! its almost like maynard is playing god in this song...."will you , will you now, would you die for me...dont you step out of line" its like hes acting as god and this person is in heavens line and maynard is asking this person would you honestly die for me(or god).

"to ascend you must die, you must be crucified, for your sins and your lies".

i think the main point is that in the end we will all be judged and some so called "christians" that thought they were doing the right thing and thought they were good at heart , will not pass at heavens "gate".

[onelinerjunkie]

As reading this topic (nice thoughts, all of you), a part of the movie DOGMA came in my mind, don't know the exact words anymore, but it came down to this: 'It's better to have an idea instead of having a belief, an idea can be changed or adjusted anytime'. So it's better to have ideas about higher powers/religion, because they probably all were idea's in the first place, but they became beliefs because the ingnorants of our world are afraid of the unkown and unsure sides of our lives and what would be the easiest way...to have a belief (don't misunderstand, i don't judge people that have a belief, everybody should 'think for themselves', so who am i to judge...).
In my opinion, we are born, we live and we die. The meaning of this can't be explained, nor by belief, nor by ideas. The only fact existing is that facts don't exist, so i rather look upon it a as many various ways as possible and be inspired by all of it, but it will never create my enviroment, i've created my own.

'TO KNOW IS TO KNOW THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING, THAT'S THE MEANING OF TRUE KNOWLEDGE'

[Yiakovos]

I don't really think this song is about religion. I think it's about how people always want to make martyrs out of themselves when they really don't need to.

But about religion, well, I'm an atheist for a lot of reasons but the main one being that religion discourages inquiry into things we don't know a lot about, so it limits knowlege(it's kind of contradictory that I'm using the name I was baptised under in the Greek Orthodox church but whatever). One of my best friends is christian and he doesn't seem like the type that would be, being quite an individual. If he was raised by people like my parents he'd probably be an atheist too. I asked him why he believed in things just because the authority-figures say they're true, and he said that it was because he thought people as a whole were stupid and they needed something to guide them. I then said that people as a whole are ignorant but they don't have to be, and if they're educated enough and encouraged to look further into things they can make the right decision. In most debates of this kind he just starts saying "I don't know..." and then we both settle on that we can't make assumptions about things we aren't sure of. Anyway I just think he's religious because he was told about God and Jesus and whatnot at an early age and he doesn't want to stop believing in something he has been for so long. Hopefully all this is relevant but if it isn't then oh well...

[abefrohmn]

Originally posted by Hogpile
The word god is an abrevation for Gift Of Death. I don't think many people know this.

That's funny, and here all these etymologist tell us God is derived from the German word for the good. Whudda thunk? If you're bored and want to read some good fluff, go to clydelewis.com and read his whole speil on GOD-the Grand Order of Designers. It's an interesting fable about a bunch of aliens who call themselves that, or GOD for short who created the human race a la Annunaki style 20K years ago. It's a pretty intruiging tail. Until it dawns on you to ask why would a bunch of aliens name themselves an acroncym made out of letters that don't exist yet for the name of a diety that hasn't been spoken yet?

[no_eye_or_third]

Personally, i believe that faith can be the best thing for an individual to guide them through hard times. Juts look at placebos, fake medicines that have been proven to work because the patient has had faith in that it woz a realy cure that would really work. But, it can also be the biggest evil and contradiction in this world. Just look at the Ku Klux Klan... so called 'christians' who carry out 'god's work' by killing in cold blooded racist, ignorant and blind hate. You have to look at faith from both sides to truly justify your own belief in what it means to have it.

[Hogpile]

Hey abefrohmn, thats some funny shit. Grand Order Designer? lol, thats great. The aliens might have used letters not yet invented by humans not yet made, for a God not yet conceived, because maybe, like Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, they are what was, and is, and is to come all at once ina time-bending eternal frozen state reality.

[Nig]

To me religion is great in most forms. Im attending a catholic school, although not one myself. i consider myself a christian, but have my own thoughts, i can think for myself. buhdism is a great form of religion, i myself dont really see it as one, but more a way of life. Faith can give most people a concious (though is a form of control) but people dont have to be blind when following. and for that big bang theory guy, what happned before the big bang, how was that first atom created. how can you make something from nothing? but i have to admit, being an athiest, or a devotee is just as politically wrong as eachother.not one is more right over the other. As for those who do follow religion blindly, like the people some of you were talking about, really, who cares?? its not bothering anyone but them selfs. you wanna be the one to save them?? then youll be like the guy in the song. just let it be. and as for the quote "ranting and pointing his finger at everything but his heart" i think this means that who ever this person may be is just blabering crap ("ranting") they dont believe, though his/her listeners do. He/She also has double standards, thats why they cant point their fingure at their own heart. Sounds like the money hungry priests with sticky hands, telling his church to donate money everyweek. I spose humans need to believe, even if its to believe not to believe.