forgiveness and humanity

[blue/shimmering]

the way i see it, many of the lyrics in The Grudge are describing a moment of disaster.... a complete and utter cataclysm. something major. a moment where all human beings will be put to the test. "saturn ascends" etc. etc.

we, as a species, must pull together. no more grudges. forgive and forget, embrace without prejudice. if we do so, humanity may continue...... "clutch it like a cornerstone, otherwise it all comes down." and we can choose 1 or 10, the best or worst case scenario, no shades of grey. "unable to forgive, and sinking deeper"

just my thoughts.

[Lateral Us]

the way i see it, many of the lyrics in The Grudge are describing a moment of disaster.... a complete and utter cataclysm. something major. a moment where all human beings will be put to the test. "saturn ascends" etc. etc.

we, as a species, must pull together. no more grudges. forgive and forget, embrace without prejudice. if we do so, humanity may continue...... "clutch it like a cornerstone, otherwise it all comes down." and we can choose 1 or 10, the best or worst case scenario, no shades of grey. "unable to forgive, and sinking deeper"

just my thoughts.

This is really, really, vague, doesnt make much sense.

[blue/shimmering]

oh crap. sorry guys. i only just found this. my friend was around here the other day, really stoned. he started rambling about The Grudge. he must have come to post it here and used my name. sorry again. it's really stupid.

[paraflux]

Tell him to get his own name.

[Navid]

I love the song, but I have to admit that some of the lyrics left me a little stumped for awhile. The references to Saturn ascending and the choice of one or ten didn't make a whole lot of sense to me until I actually did some research. Of course, that in and of itself made me enjoy the song even more. It actually spurred me on to learn something new and gain a deeper understanding of a piece of art I already appreciated on one level.

[Raev'n]

So... What did you find out? 'twould be interesting to know...

[Nith Sahor]

the way i see it, many of the lyrics in The Grudge are describing a moment of disaster.... a complete and utter cataclysm. something major. a moment where all human beings will be put to the test. "saturn ascends" etc. etc.

we, as a species, must pull together. no more grudges. forgive and forget, embrace without prejudice. if we do so, humanity may continue...... "clutch it like a cornerstone, otherwise it all comes down." and we can choose 1 or 10, the best or worst case scenario, no shades of grey. "unable to forgive, and sinking deeper"

just my thoughts.

I totally agree with you... and the whole "Give away the stone/Let the oceans take and transmutate these cold and fated anchors" --> lose your old rivalries/grudge/whatever and go to a better place (don't be anchored at some point of prejudice and anger).

[Navid]

So... What did you find out? 'twould be interesting to know...

Well, nothing new to you, I'd say. I was referring to the mythology revolving around Saturn as a god and the associated tale, as well as the cycle of Saturn beginning every twenty-something years reflecting a period of personal growth and renewal. All mentioned here already, but - as my post-count would suggest - I'm new here, so I hadn't understood those lines in the song until recently.

[Raev'n]

You ahve seen Goya's painting then?

[Navid]

Excuse me?

[Raev'n]

Goyas painting of Saturn eating his son?

There's some shit about it here: http://cat.middlebury.edu/~nereview/morgan.html

Here's a link to the picture: http://itech.pjc.cc.fl.us/cschuler/clt1500/review/goyasaturn.html

[fibonacci420]

random thoughts on the grudge,

I believe Maynard is referring to the grudge that dwells within the human soul, or a personal grudge if you will. "Justify denials" aptly describes the perilous nature of the negative aspects of human nature i.e. greed, lust, savagery etc. Maynard advocates a positive form of moral egoism, and feels that the fate of humanity lies with the individual rather than with collective societies.

[CrayonOfDoom]

This is really, really, vague, doesnt make much sense.



hahahaha @ at this post.......


dude if you're going to be consistent, at least be consistent, none of TOOL'S songs are specific, and yet you jest at this guy's vagueness!!!

[Tr3ple P]

random thoughts on the grudge,

I believe Maynard is referring to the grudge that dwells within the human soul, or a personal grudge if you will. "Justify denials" aptly describes the perilous nature of the negative aspects of human nature i.e. greed, lust, savagery etc. Maynard advocates a positive form of moral egoism, and feels that the fate of humanity lies with the individual rather than with collective societies.

I totally agree!!! I am writing a musicology paper in music as art, and thoose Tool as reference. I'm slightly beginning to analyse The Grudge and will get in to both text and music analysis. When i'm done i will post my result here (even though I have to translate from danish to english) and I hope it will find your interest.
Its a very deep song, both in musicology and textual term.

J.

[oracle]

As I posted on another thread, I did some investigating on Saturn ascending and found an interesting tidbit regarding ancient greek music theory. It seems saturn ascending is referring to a piece of piano music where G ascends to F through a series of half and whole notes. IMHO I think that is what is being referred to.

Check this out:
Saturn is made out of the ascending Mixolydian sidereal
mode beginning on the pitchkey of 'G' and ending on 'F'
whose is the sidereal key of Jupiter--hence the classic
mythology that Jupiter defeated Saturn: by limiting his
otherwise major modality on the flattened seventh. Play
Saturn's mode beginning of the G and ascending on white
keys only. Notice the distinctively limiting value that
Jupiter's 'F' exerts over the Mixolydian mode. Hear it?
Saturn's ascending mode is W-W-H-W-W-H,

W= Whole note
H= Half note

[umbilicalchemist]

As I posted on another thread, I did some investigating on Saturn ascending and found an interesting tidbit regarding ancient greek music theory. It seems saturn ascending is referring to a piece of piano music where G ascends to F through a series of half and whole notes. IMHO I think that is what is being referred to.

Check this out:
Saturn is made out of the ascending Mixolydian sidereal
mode beginning on the pitchkey of 'G' and ending on 'F'
whose is the sidereal key of Jupiter--hence the classic
mythology that Jupiter defeated Saturn: by limiting his
otherwise major modality on the flattened seventh. Play
Saturn's mode beginning of the G and ascending on white
keys only. Notice the distinctively limiting value that
Jupiter's 'F' exerts over the Mixolydian mode. Hear it?
Saturn's ascending mode is W-W-H-W-W-H,

W= Whole note
H= Half note

that is interesting.