Narcissus

[Æon]

Since i'm not an exceedingly smart person, i wasnt sure of the meaning of "narsicism". So i whipped out my trusty dictionary and looked it up, the closest match i recieved was <subject>.
And this is the following definition

(Greek myth) Beautiful youth who, falling in love with his reflection in a spring, pined away and was changed into the flower that bears his name

Maybe this will do away with the rediculous definitions of "pine away" i have read.
(Incase you didnt spot it, "pining away" seems to be the transformation from a human into an other creature)

[Æon]

The rest of you can insert a further interpretation, i really cant be fucked.

[MantlePicture]

actually, this is the definition of pining away:

"lose vigor, health, or flesh, as through grief; "After her husband died, she just pined away" http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pine%20away

but the part about Narcissus is correct.

the word "narcissism" is derived from this myth. the actual meanings of this word are as follows:

1. Excessive love or admiration of oneself.
2. A psychological condition characterized by self-preoccupation, lack of empathy, and unconscious deficits in self-esteem.
3. Erotic pleasure derived from contemplation or admiration of one's own body or self, especially as a fixation on or a regression to an infantile stage of development.
4. The attribute of the human psyche charactized by admiration of oneself but within normal limits.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=narcissism

[Æon]

*Embarrased face*
Like i said, i'm not an exceddingly smart person.

[RiceKrispies85]

No worries, i had to look narcissism up as well...
Of course, that may or may not mean much....

[forty6n2]

pine just means to waste away. it doesnt really go into much detail. this song is very powerful and i love listening to the last verse. i might not know what it means but it kind of ''moves'' me ya know?

[dawn]

In early American wars, soldiers carried a narcisuss bulb as a sort of suicide pill.

[crackerjack]

to waste (away) through grief, etc.



-Webster's New World Dictionary

[LearnedStudent]

Originally posted by mstajduh
In the myth, I think once he found out the thing he loved most was just his own reflection knowing he couldn't embrace or touch it, he died. Yet another girl I have talked to thinks it means that he was just finally happy and it was like his time to go then...

Narcissus wasted away because he couldn't look away from his own reflection.

[floormatt]

I see i'm not the only one who has figured out that this song is partly about the story of Narcissus. But what does it all mean?

Maynard could in fact be comparing the fate of Narcissus to the fate of humanity. If we fail to crucify the ego, we could end up pining away like narcissus. The meaning of the title Reflection is given in the story, how Narcissus could not look away from the pool of water.

Maynard's reflection is "calling him"....

perhaps the face he sees is that of the moon, like the face of the angel in the water in the story.

"this light is not my own..."


"And as I pull my head out, I am without one doubt, don't wanna be down here, feeding my narcissism" so Maynard pulls out of his narcissism.

At the end of the song, he is saying "we are all one mind" which is why I think this part of the song is trying to warn humanity not to pine away like Narcissus.

[Lachrymologist]

A random point, in the Perfect Circle song, maynard calls Brena his reflection, this song could have something to do with that or her. Or maybe just love in general, which would go along with the whole narcissus thing.

[LearnedStudent]

Everyone needs to take one step back from this thing. You're looking a little too deeply. The Narcissus myth isn't the key to the song or anything like that. Being Narcissistic means that you are full of your self. Many rock stars are full of themselves. Maynard (or whoever the main character is) simply realized that he didn't want to be that way anymore.

[paraflux]

Using the Narcissus example with this song changes the meaning of the title dramatically. I think the point of the song can be taken from the "without her we are useless satellites drifting" line. We, as humans made in God's image, have the ability to use the "light" from the source (God) to reflect off of us, therefore being both enlightened and encouragement for others. I'm not sure if the "pine away" is a reference to Narcissus or not, but the message is the same either way. If we dont allow this reflection and become prisms of life energy, we will wither away with the rest of this third dimension unless we get on board for the train to the fourth.

[Tantobourne]

In one of the articles provided on this site (toolshed.down.net) Maynard speaks of the moon and that its light isn't its own so much as just a reflection of the sun's light onto the shadow or the nightside of the planet. The moon serves as a silent (and beautiful) reminder that even in the darkness we have this 'reflection' to guide us.

What we see around us and in other people are not so much 'what they really are' but rather a 'reflection' of ourselves. We see people through our own eyes and understand them through our own experiences. This definition of another is solely one's own and unique.

This is a biased and perhaps an 'egotistical' perception of those people. It is not necessarily wrong that we do this but perhaps just taking the first step and realizing it....accepting our 'shadow' and learning from it and with it...

"Feeding my narcissism"...ah but don't we all do that? Don't we maneuver people in our social lives to get a stroke here or a pat there? Perhaps kick the dog every once in a while to make oneself feel better? Do we consider our genitilia with pride or remorse? Perhaps look in the mirror before rushing out the door and make a face or wink at oneself? Say, "How do you like my new {insertwhatever}?"

When we interact with people, consciously or unconciously we feed ourselves. We look at our reflections and primp and preen, we cultivate it for a desired result. Spending so much time in a hypo-chondriatic state....does this reap any great, fulfilling rewards? We gotta crucify that ego....

Those lights he refers to are the stars, no? Then again, mayhaps those lights are each and every soul that he's known and crossed paths with in his life. Without those lights, without those reflections, we are without any context and cannot thus grow...together, apart...spiritually.

-Tant

[faaip de oaid]

whenever maynard said "without her we are lifeless satellites" it always reminded me of the law of THEMLA. but in THEMLA we are all stars, not satellites........ so who is she?

[reign3]

Originally posted by faaip de oaid
whenever maynard said "without her we are lifeless satellites" it always reminded me of the law of THEMLA. but in THEMLA we are all stars, not satellites........ so who is she?

I think "she" is the sun. Remember that he mentions the moon- "the moon tells me a secret"
the moon is the greatest symbol of reflection because it is so bright and the light that it shines is simply a reflection. all our natural light on earth comes from the sun. everything we see that is illuminated by the sun is a reflection of the suns rays onto an object. without the sun, there would be no color or light. sure we have our own lights now, but i still think he's talking about the sun. i know he doesn't mention it in the song directly, but i think it has to do with the "the moon tells me a secret, my confidant, as full and bright as i am, this light is not my own and, a million light reflections pass over me" part. i could be wrong.

i like the first idea brought up by /-Eon (sorry, i don't know how to do that fancy font thing). you could be right man. there are different definitions for thousands of words. who knows? maybe maynard read that myth. i heard he's into native american mythology, perhaps he's also read a bit of greek as well.

[Tantobourne]

Originally posted by faaip de oaid
whenever maynard said "without her we are lifeless satellites" it always reminded me of the law of THEMLA. but in THEMLA we are all stars, not satellites........ so who is she?

All my ramblings are usually out on a limb and grasping but since I known nothing of Kenneth Grant I'm a bit farther out than I usually am.

Try this link first:

http://www.skoob.com/esoterica/cults.html

My narrow interpretation is based off of yet another article I might have read on toolshed.down.net in which one of the band-members states that they (whomever -they- are in the band) identify with the Lunar/Moon Current which the above link addresses.

The Lunar current being the feminine/dark/side of our beings whereas the sun is the opposite, the masculine/light side. Perhaps take into consideration the yin/yang and how the two opposites exist together but are defined as two separate extremes.

We (hopefully) know ourselves through our consciousness. At some point in our lives and our growth we realize that we don't necessarily know 'everything' that we thought we did. We grow out of that infantile mindset of 'I am invincible' and realize that there is a part of us....for some the masculine side...for some the feminine side...that we haven't explored. We are incomplete.

As the link above mentions, the lunar current also is the 'shadow'...perhaps not following strictly with what Jung laid out (no I haven't read any Jung...directly) but it has a certain parallel, no?

To continue to grow and transcend spiritually it's suggested that we must embrace not just one side but all sides of our being. We must look inwards to those places that we normally shun and dislike about ourselves and make a pure effort to understand it and to envelop it into what we already know....to grow.

So...I'd -guess- that 'she' is the moon, the feminine side, the 'unknown' and unplumbed shadow of Maynards and of each of our shadows. Perhaps looking up at that beautiful full moon adorned in a vast expanse of stars on a clear night and inwardly 'knowing' that to embrace her and all that she represents is the final release... the bringing of that which is twain together into a consummate whole. Perhaps Maynard feels that this attainment is something akin to 'god' and he is striving for it with all ernest. Gee...schism in audio and video form portrays this, it seems....

Perhaps...he holds this realization and has only achieved it by experience...by experience of love...of hate...of being screwed over....over screwing people over....things I'm sure we all have done in our lives, eh?

Now Keenan speaks of it through the medium of music with the rest of the bandmates and through this medium he passes on what 'tools' he is willing to profer to us, the listeners.

Hmmm....the scenario almost imperils him as being considered a 'Jesus Christ' figure....

I think I'd find some frustration in having such a wonderful and pure concept to give to everyone else, to bring everyone 'up' with me...and then finding that when I look out towards the crowds I see people that want to worship me and dote on every word and whisper that I utter in my songs....perhaps burrow their ostrich heads deep into that dark hole of a message board...

Hell, I'd probably want to distance myself in a situation like that. Who the frickl needs another Jesus Christ? Who needs another martyr? Another scapegoat? After all, it's not =him= that matters....it's what he has to say and most of all...whether or not those that listen are at a spot in their growth to listen to it and run with it...

Anything that Keenan writes and sings about are things that we all face and realize at some point...some people not at all. In what comes off as his misanthropic ways he's actually tossing out little kibbles and saying that through willingly facing the pains that life throws at us and learning from them, we may actually come out as better people. He can only lead himself to the light through will and want. Each of us in turn, must do the same for ourselves. For those others, we can only point the way and hope that by their decisions: their will, their wants... we might eventually see them on the 'other side'.

Maybe the catch is that the words themselves do not validate the concept...we each must face ourselves and experience life without fear in order to transform what is 'knowledge' into 'wisdom'.

So when you look up to the full moon this month, hopefully a clear night away from all the city lights...take a deep breath an embrace her. Look into your shadow without fear but love and appreciation. Because without her we are .....

-Tant

[Adrenalin]

ill give you a nice part of the story..seeing to as i am Greek.
Narcissos was a very beautifull guy who couldnt help but look at himself in any chance that he got.so once he was looking at his reflection at a river and he desided that he had to kiss himself..that made tha gods angry (or jealous i might add)and they made him fall in the river and drown...well before he really drown they turned him into a flower (narcissos) in order to save him (stupid gods huh?).the flower needs other flower to survive and to climb upon, and THAT was the real punishment for the poor guy...that from now on he'd have to depend upon others to survive.WELL,maybe that gives a completely different aspect to the song doesnt it?meaning the ''maynard singing that this is the destiny of humanity'' and all..i for one think that the word narcissism is just a word meaning too full of yourself and nothing more than that...search deeper than that,and you miss the point.