View Full Version : Instrumental TOOL
GregoryWohlwend
01-21-2005, 04:56 PM
I'm hoping, but not giving my hopes up, for the upcoming album to utilize more of an instrumental feel rather than have maynard sing on 90% of the album. DRT is the best part of lateralus for it allows musical freedom, interpretive and otherwise. While the lyrics offer a great take, what if they released a double CD with one instrumental and one with lyrics... i mean they could have even done that without maynard when he was off doing his pub-work with APC... then maynard steps in on a whole new set of fresh ones and they all hash it out... i think that'd be really interesting.
thoughts?
MrMcPheezy
01-21-2005, 05:57 PM
I love the idea of the album utilizing more instrumental stuff, but I don't think I'd like a whole cd without vocals. I'd rather see a more balanced mixed, perhaps relying a bit more on instrumental sections.
I love the tool instrumentals..but I want maynard to redeme himself. Besides Fiddle and the Drum and Passive emotive was kind of lame. And lately he hasnt been nearly as tight live. I hope he pulls it back together when he comes back with tool
Tw1ster
01-21-2005, 09:42 PM
. when he comes back with tool
Looks like that may be soon...Maynards bald again and from my knowledge..hes never bald when hes deep in A perfect Circle...hes bald with Tool...thats just a theory though
Kapoo
01-22-2005, 05:07 AM
I love the tool instrumentals..but I want maynard to redeme himself. Besides Fiddle and the Drum and Passive emotive was kind of lame. And lately he hasnt been nearly as tight live. I hope he pulls it back together when he comes back with tool
Whatchutalkinboutinnercombustion? The fiddle and the drum kicked ass. who says lame anyway?
no fiddle and the drum was AMAZING. but most of the album was weak. I was mainly refering to his live performances lately. His voice is squeeking all over the place.
Windir
01-22-2005, 02:40 PM
"Looks like that may be soon...Maynards bald again and from my knowledge..hes never bald when hes deep in A perfect Circle...hes bald with Tool...thats just a theory though"
I love that theory. You might even have a good point there.
Tw1ster
01-22-2005, 03:30 PM
yeah, i saw an interview on A Perfect Circle's site and Maynard is as bald as a baby..and its recent too for he was discussing "Imagine"...i hope its true
i dont care if he's bald or not. its not like we'll be able to see him on tour. He probebly wont even be on stage. He'll just have a cordless mic and-
(First Union Spectrum bathroom stalls)
some guy who had to go "..what the hell...is someone singing in the toilet? jeez how embarassing.."
maynard .."IT will end no other waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay...and hey could you shut up? im trying not to exploit myself over here"
Tw1ster
01-22-2005, 07:47 PM
i dont care if he's bald or not. its not like we'll be able to see him on tour. He probebly wont even be on stage. He'll just have a cordless mic and-
"
Thats not what i mean..i could care less about him being bald too..im just saying usually when hes with Tool....hes bald..and hes bald now...which means he might be getting back into some work with Tool
or maybe he's just getting old
Tw1ster
01-23-2005, 01:33 AM
or maybe he's just getting old
Now come on...you dont really think that he just suddenly went balled because hes getting old...he had his hair past his shoulders not too long ago..and now hes shiny head bald..that shit doesnt happen over night..he shaved it
He wears a long ass black wig for APC plus he's worn wigs for Tool too. He's been bald for quite some time now, he said so himself that he suffers from male pattern baldness.
Man I wish I had some of that hair he use to have so I could clone him in the future.
He wears a long ass black wig for APC plus he's worn wigs for Tool too. He's been bald for quite some time now, he said so himself that he suffers from male pattern baldness.
see? .......see????
I think the album needs a balance, but the vocals is what really makes Tool stand out, so I would prefer more lyrics.
Tw1ster
01-23-2005, 01:50 PM
see? .......see????
I stand corrected, i apologize
GregoryWohlwend
01-23-2005, 11:34 PM
thanks for that tw1ster, you've enlightened us with your incredible hair-loss theory, and made our lives and this thread that much better...
in other news, do you think that, hypothetically of course, if TOOL did release some sort of instrumental CD without lyrics that a good deal of the fans would be outraged and perhaps storm off? furthermore, do you think Maynard and adhering to lyrics limits TOOL creatively, and if so are those limits good or bad? why?
in other news, do you think that, hypothetically of course, if TOOL did release some sort of instrumental CD without lyrics that a good deal of the fans would be outraged and perhaps storm off? furthermore, do you think Maynard and adhering to lyrics limits TOOL creatively, and if so are those limits good or bad? why?
Good question. I think fans would only get upset if there wasnt another cd with vocals. However, I think an instrumental cd would go over incredibly. For the second part of your question, I do not think the lyrics 'limit' tool's ablilty- even though songs like jimmy follow (for the most part) standard form, such as repeating verses and choruses, with a bridge, etc. other songs like pushit and third eye show how tool could work even without lyrics. I think it would be just as good, they would replace the vocals with simply expanding more in the song, making it a good instrumental, not a good song without vocals. Like King Crimson- they are made in mind, (for the most part) to not have lyrics. Therefor the melody is found in one of the guitars, instead of vocals. This would be harder for tool to do as a three piece, but Im sure they could pull it off if they wanted to.
Tool without lyrics = Tool without Maynard, makes Tool obsolete. Without Maynard then there is no message. I can understand it as being a concept but I would prefer it if he does what he knows best.
Although I do like the more music part just as long as Maynard is still on it, take Third eye for instance, long intro, Maynard says 8 lines then screams or what ever then there's music for another 1-2 minutes, then he comes in with the whispering, plus the rest. There's a lot of music in it but it's complimented very well with his singing and words, so more of that can be a good thing. I'm sure they know exactly what they want with this project.
So as long as he's on it for more than, let's say %70, then that would do me just fine.
vatas
01-24-2005, 07:59 AM
I love the idea of the album utilizing more instrumental stuff, but I don't think I'd like a whole cd without vocals. I'd rather see a more balanced mixed, perhaps relying a bit more on instrumental sections.
Yeah, what he said.
MrMcPheezy
01-24-2005, 09:40 AM
that's a wig.
Yeah, seriously. I didn't get why people were having that whole discussion about him being bald with tool and having long hair with apc. It's fact that he does it, and he does it intentionally by using a wig when with apc.
Heh, there was an apc webcast once where he joked that the long hair was real and that he wore a skull-cap when he was with tool.
Heh, there was an apc webcast once where he joked that the long hair was real and that he wore a skull-cap when he was with tool.
haha
Tw1ster
01-24-2005, 07:44 PM
.
Heh, there was an apc webcast once where he joked that the long hair was real and that he wore a skull-cap when he was with tool.
I saw that too....i actually thought he was serious, lol...stupid me
MrMcPheezy
01-24-2005, 07:46 PM
haha
GregoryWohlwend
01-25-2005, 01:29 AM
Tool without lyrics = Tool without Maynard, makes Tool obsolete. Without Maynard then there is no message. I can understand it as being a concept but I would prefer it if he does what he knows best.
Although I do like the more music part just as long as Maynard is still on it, take Third eye for instance, long intro, Maynard says 8 lines then screams or what ever then there's music for another 1-2 minutes, then he comes in with the whispering, plus the rest. There's a lot of music in it but it's complimented very well with his singing and words, so more of that can be a good thing. I'm sure they know exactly what they want with this project.
So as long as he's on it for more than, let's say %70, then that would do me just fine.
good point about Third Eye, i think you're right about that, however sometimes i feel like it's a bit saturated with words, perhaps too much thinking for the listener can take away from the raw emotion of the music. I'd say Third Eye(salival) is one of my favorite TOOL songs, and most likely maynards sparse yet important singing is one of the keys to its beautiful composition...
All that said, i adore maynards poetry and crave more, however i think it'd be interesting to see a more minimal approach, such as third eye is concerned...
agreed- I dont think mayard has ever (in tool) over taken a song. I think he adds exactly what is needed, no more no less
Andy DV
01-25-2005, 07:19 PM
i think its clear with their approach to songwriting that lyrics are always on the backburner to the music (maynard comes in after the music is already laid down, not the other way around, which is what im sure a lotta bands do). and i think it shows. i think maynard has become the frontman in such a big way not because his vocals are overbearing, but just cuz theyre damn good.
more instrumentals would be cool for change's sake, but i'm pretty content with maynard's stylings.
i think its clear with their approach to songwriting that lyrics are always on the backburner to the music (maynard comes in after the music is already laid down, not the other way around, which is what im sure a lotta bands do). and i think it shows. i think maynard has become the frontman in such a big way not because his vocals are overbearing, but just cuz theyre damn good.
more instrumentals would be cool for change's sake, but i'm pretty content with maynard's stylings.
exactly
The_Patient
01-27-2005, 04:10 PM
i think its clear with their approach to songwriting that lyrics are always on the backburner to the music (maynard comes in after the music is already laid down, not the other way around, which is what im sure a lotta bands do). and i think it shows. i think maynard has become the frontman in such a big way not because his vocals are overbearing, but just cuz theyre damn good.
more instrumentals would be cool for change's sake, but i'm pretty content with maynard's stylings.
Manyard has taken the lyrical aspect of music to amazing levels of
listener involvement. It's weird though, because the lyrics aren't very
relatable from a typical standpoint. But aside from the lyrics I have to agree
with Andy >
Manyard has taken the lyrical aspect of music to amazing levels of
listener involvement. It's weird though, because the lyrics aren't very
relatable from a typical standpoint. But aside from the lyrics I have to agree
with Andy >
I dissagree- I see alot of people on here say stuff like H. has to do with some eronriaiinla occult fantasy, but alot of tool songs really boil down to common human expieriances, same example- you have a tough decision, you're getting the little devil on one shoulder, angel on another. Schism is a breakup song. I think people can really connect with it on a basic level instead of (hate to be cliche') overanalyzing.
The_Patient
01-28-2005, 11:47 AM
I dissagree- I see alot of people on here say stuff like H. has to do with some eronriaiinla occult fantasy, but alot of tool songs really boil down to common human expieriances, same example- you have a tough decision, you're getting the little devil on one shoulder, angel on another. Schism is a breakup song. I think people can really connect with it on a basic level instead of (hate to be cliche') overanalyzing.
^ overanalyzing's what we do 'round here
The_Patient
01-28-2005, 11:50 AM
^ overanalyzing's what we do 'round here
...... I was just saying, do you know why parabola is called what it is/ what its about - or eon blue, or any of those? I meant on a basic elementary level of
humanity, no one is going to know what the hell anything to do with that, is....
^ overanalyzing's what we do 'round here
can't deny that
...... I was just saying, do you know why parabola is called what it is/ what its about - or eon blue, or any of those? I meant on a basic elementary level of
humanity, no one is going to know what the hell anything to do with that, is....
parabola is kinda a play on words from the previous 'parabol' the two songs share lyrics in a parabol teaching style, then the added 'a' making it a curved line, going up in this case, maynard said it was like an obstical you climb over, like a dune. I think it was just for the effect, and the meaning also kinda tied to it. Adam jones wrote eon blue appocalypse about his dog (named Eon)- who died, (hence apocalypse) and blue's in there just sounds cool.
The_Patient
01-28-2005, 01:24 PM
parabola is kinda a play on words from the previous 'parabol' the two songs share lyrics in a parabol teaching style, then the added 'a' making it a curved line, going up in this case, maynard said it was like an obstical you climb over, like a dune. I think it was just for the effect, and the meaning also kinda tied to it. Adam jones wrote eon blue appocalypse about his dog (named Eon)- who died, (hence apocalypse) and blue's in there just sounds cool.
^ Thanks! ^
As the hemispheres of the brain struggle for dominance there is a constant shifting of polarity between the right and left lobes that exists as music vs. number, image vs. word, being vs. doing, and holistic integration vs. linear abstraction.
hey whats that from
good point about Third Eye, i think you're right about that, however sometimes i feel like it's a bit saturated with words, perhaps too much thinking for the listener can take away from the raw emotion of the music. I'd say Third Eye(salival) is one of my favorite TOOL songs, and most likely maynards sparse yet important singing is one of the keys to its beautiful composition...
All that said, i adore maynards poetry and crave more, however i think it'd be interesting to see a more minimal approach, such as third eye is concerned...
The raw emotion aspect can only be felt once you have connected with Tool's music. What I mean by that is, if someone has never heard of Tool before and listens to Third eye they won't feel any emotion what so ever, to them it will be just another metal song. Because we know the lyrics and the moments of music we like to hear it means more to us on a personal level.
The saturation you speak of I think is great, if the lyrics were easy to understand or hear, then I think that would make it boring in the long run, as commercial radio songs have proven, once you hear a song you like instantly and you know the lyrics and you start humming them, then about 2 weeks later that song is no longer any 'fun' and becomes repetitive.
But then I can also see your point about it being saturated with to many words, once you know the song you wish that maybe perhaps there is/was no need for that part or this part. I personally would love to take out the part "PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE" as I think it detracts from the actual movement of the song, but that's my opinion.
I don't think anyone here would want to see/hear their next album(the one we've waited so long for) consisting only of music i.e instrumental, I think, well I know I would be devastated if Maynard was not on the record, at all.
As stated above, Third eye, it's great when there is just music playing but it gets better when Maynard starts doing his job, then gets even better when Adam kicks in towards the end, so it all works well.
Reflection has a long intro that mainly consists of the same cycle until the bass/guitar 'wind up' fully(it starts to 'wind up' each time but is cut short by the next 'wind up' not sure if that sounds correct, but anyway) then Maynard starts with his haunting words, some say that this isn't necessary, but I think it needs it as the song almost lulls you into a false sense of security and without being shocked(like with a huge sound or vocal), it gently winds up and takes you with the sound(mind you, you really need some good speakers and not some cheap shit brand)and it's like you have been hypnotized. I would love to hear more of this kind of stuff.
But I strongly oppose an all instrumental album.
In the end our opinions will differ from time to time but I'm sure we all want the same thing here, and that is more Tool, it doesn't matter if it takes them another 2 months or 2 years but I know I will be one happy mother fucker when I have it, what ever it is they release.
i think its clear with their approach to songwriting that lyrics are always on the backburner to the music (maynard comes in after the music is already laid down, not the other way around, which is what im sure a lotta bands do). and i think it shows. i think maynard has become the frontman in such a big way not because his vocals are overbearing, but just cuz theyre damn good.
more instrumentals would be cool for change's sake, but i'm pretty content with maynard's stylings.
I agree completely about Maynard's approach to the music, that's a good point you make there. As I've stated(not that it fucking matters anyway what I say) I would like to hear an even balance. The track Triad is good and fits in with the album very well but I hope that's where it stays. Perhaps maybe one more like that but nothing over the top to the extent where Maynard starts running out of material.
GregoryWohlwend
01-29-2005, 12:45 PM
I don't think anyone here would want to see/hear their next album(the one we've waited so long for) consisting only of music i.e instrumental, I think, well I know I would be devastated if Maynard was not on the record, at all.
I agree, that's why i was hinting at perhaps a double album, one instrumental, the other with lyrics... while the one intstrumental wouldn't be the same music as the other with lyrics i think maynard could lay down some guitar on it to replace the instrument that is his voice, or perhaps he could go patton/bjork and forget about representation...
I guess the reason I think TOOL will eventually go this way is due to the vagueness (is that a word?) of his lyrics and the shrouded meaning behind them. Eventually the fan base decides on a meaning, yet the reason they are so good is because anyone can interpret them as they wish. However i see TOOL as artists in the true sense of the word, and extremely progressive at that, perhaps i am wrong to paint them with that brush, but i think for them to try new things like fully subject listeners to the emotion of the music may not please every or even most fans out there, i think they would break incredible ground.
The more i listen to music the more i appreciate and covet the instrumental songs on albums, my favorite king crimson song prelude: song of the gulls, and most of sigur ros puts me in sucha tranquil mood. Then you contrast that with the stylings of mr. bungle or that sleepy time gorilla museum which attempts to jack up your insecurities and make you feel nearly quesy. Yet i havn't seen something from TOOL other than TRIAD which is probably my favorite song by them, (ESPECIALLY LIVE) which makes me pee my pants because i'm so damned happy and excited i'm like a little schoolboy when i first see the christmas tree and all the presents.
All that said i do entertain the dichotomy (sp) between the basic tune of a song and the lyrics it presents... hence the double CD, plus wouldn't we have a shitload of intrepretations and crazy theories like someone will play them together and get this weird acid manifesto...
Yea I guess we would be crazy enough to start interpreting instrumentals done by Tool. I can see what your saying about the double disc, one being the 'norm' and one being instrumental, but I think the instrumental side would have to be fast paced like Triad is because I just don't feel 80 minutes of just music would be sufficient enough to tie me down so to speak. Also if Tool were to make 160 minutes worth of music why not utilize at least %80 with Maynard? but that's for them to decide. Also the question of what music do you leave for Maynard to voice over and what do you use for the instrumental? would you want to hear one of the greatest pieces of music not utilized by Maynard to it's full potential? maybe it might be better off without him.
So the question beckons, what would or what type of direction would you want the instrumental to go in? fast paced? like Triad hypnotic like Reflection or maybe something even completely different like instead of having Adam's guitar tuned down perhaps maybe he could tune it up and Danny could use reggae drums. hahaha imagine that! reggae drums, yea mon.
Though I love the musicians (instrumentalists) in Tool, I don't really think a second full cd could work- Besides danny carey, adam jones and justin chancellor arent exactly fit for roles of holding that much weight. Dont get me wrong- I love their music more than any others' but in a band like king crimson, their guitar players and bass players are made to support full fledged instrumentals. They make up the absence of the vocals (in most songs) by sometimes playing two melodies on the same instrument! Crimsons' bassist plays a chapman stick (he's using 10 fingers at all time, all of them playing notes) Whereas in Tool, Maynard completes this last step, and thats where the chemistry is really completed. He is 25% to making Jimmy haunting, 25% to making Ticks and Leeches brutal, and 25% of making lateralis inspiring. In the same way, they each contribute to their share to bring out their thread of Tool. Triad isnt the most difficult song to play on bass, but the song does take on an energy and a mood. It works out really well. But I doubt that a whole album of instrumentals could carry its own weight. Either way, I don't think tool will do a bad job.
The_Patient
01-30-2005, 04:11 PM
hey whats that from
Someone wise...
GregoryWohlwend
01-31-2005, 01:21 AM
He is 25% to making Jimmy haunting, 25% to making Ticks and Leeches brutal, and 25% of making lateralis inspiring.
good way of putting it, but i stil lthink they could hold their weight.
you're probly right, just puttin out a point of view.
5th Eye
02-09-2005, 09:39 AM
Yeah, I agree that the vocals can really help the music a lot, but when I listen to songs like Triad I think...wow, who really needs Maynard all that much?
*gets shot by someone*
Triad's cool..but its really alot of the same stuff going around. dont get me wrong, I like it, but just as a taste.
5th Eye
02-10-2005, 09:37 AM
Triad's cool..but its really alot of the same stuff going around. dont get me wrong, I like it, but just as a taste.
Yeah, I used to not have the patience for it until I forced myself to listen to it a lot. The vocal samples add a lot to the song, as do all the other little subtle details...
The only complaint I have is that it's boring to play along with the first 3 minutes or so.
Its just its the same like 2 chords. I love the drums- he does some sick stuff in indipendance, and the guitar solo is just feed back..its not really anything special or risky. I still like it but I wouldnt say its the best thing tool has done. I like it best, and I think it only works, when it is played after Disposition and Reflection. Then its like part of something bigger, and it makes more sense.
5th Eye
02-10-2005, 02:38 PM
Its just its the same like 2 chords. I love the drums- he does some sick stuff in indipendance, and the guitar solo is just feed back..its not really anything special or risky. I still like it but I wouldnt say its the best thing tool has done. I like it best, and I think it only works, when it is played after Disposition and Reflection. Then its like part of something bigger, and it makes more sense.
I think it's mostly pick scrapes actually, plus normal playing with added feedback, according to most tabs I see. Yeah, it's mostly E and D chords repeated...it's most definitely NOT the best thing Tool has done, but the heavier chorus part still makes me sit up and go "Whoa!"
Triad is good for putting in your car to race to the shops to buy smokes and back again. The trick is to beat the song.
5th Eye
02-17-2005, 09:34 AM
I just like to play it really loud when no one's home, and make my house shake and stuff... Okay it doesn't really.
The trick is to beat the song.
Lol dont cheat with putting on D and R before it
There's nothing better than driving your car with the windows up and having D/R/T up so loud that you can't hear if you have hit a young mother pushing her pram.
I always knew that I could learn something from Tool, it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught.
5th Eye
02-19-2005, 02:37 PM
There's nothing better than driving your car with the windows up and having D/R/T up so loud that you can't hear if you have hit a young mother pushing her pram.
I always knew that I could learn something from Tool, it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught.That's even funnier because you used the word "pram" in a post.
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