New Meaning To the World La-Te-Ra-Lu-s

[tainednarf1014]

I was looking at the alex grey website, studying the sacred mirrors when a thought weasled its way into my mind.

This is in its rough stages of theory and im only throwing out an idea. On one of the mirrors there was a PERIODIC TABLE OF ELEMENTS and I knew that most elements contained mostly to letter abbreviations so I pulled out my Chemistry book and looked through the table and to my suprise I found each segment of La-te-ra-lu-s fit into the element abbreviations.

Now so far ive been leaning towards the idea of perhaps the begginge or when you first get the album its broken up La-Te-Ra-Lu-S and towards the end of the album its spelled lateralus all with all the letters formed together as if the elements joined together and the songs afterwords could perhaps be the proggression or even regression of the combination of the elements.

[spiralion]

That is a cool idea, but what are those elements that make up La-te-ra-lu-s and what compound do they make?

[m4yn4rd]

ya that is pretty cool

[tainednarf1014]

Im not sure of the compound that it makes up, chemistry is not my strongest point but if we all work on this im sure we can figure out something. Maynard says he wants people to use there minds more and think so lets get crackin

[tainednarf1014]

found this so far http://www.webelements.com/webelements/compounds/text/La/La1Te1-12031344.html

[m4yn4rd]

ok well...

la = lanthanum
te = tellurium
ra = radium
lu = lutetium
s = sulfur or (sulphur)

ok well they all are elements, now is it possible anyone can get their hands on these, i doubt it, if so that would be cool, watch you mix it and a 3d puff of gas forms into maynards head

[crow011]

man, i dont care if this is over analysing - this is a fucking cool theory . . .

im extremely impressed with the lateral (sorry, couldnt help it) thinking involved with this theory . . .

i think the band would be impressed . . .

as to its actual practical application, however, im not sure how this would fit into anything . . .

what about breaking up the album into five equal (?) parts, and asign an element to each part? . . . then what would you get? . . .

peace and blessed be . . .

crow011 . . .

[tainednarf1014]

Me and a friend of mind have decided to get together tonight and do some research. He's a really smart guy so hopefully we will be able to figure something out. Ive figured out that La & Te make a compound but thats as far as ive gotten so far. The weird thing about the LaTe compound is that the molecular structure or model resembles a diagram ive seen somewhere that related to tool perhaps even the lotus but im not exactly sure with desing it resembled. I will look into it.

If anyone else finds anything make sure to post it.

[m4yn4rd]

cool, tell me what u get..........

[Mark D]

Every element has an atomic number. Maybe the atomic numbers of these elements have a significance. Just a thought...

[Digital Dreamer]

I can talk to my Chem. teacher about this. But if one were to create this substance... i think that they would find that there is insufficient information as to HOW to create it. For instance, what state shoudl the elements be put into Gas liquid solid? or how much to use.... i like the idea of the atomic numbers and i will look into what they could be used to mean....... ill keep you updated

[tainednarf1014]

Ive found out a couple thinks that could be relavent to this theory. I looked into the meaning of each element and each element derives from a latin word. So far I've found that La or Lanthenum means "to lie beneath" and Te or Tellerium means "earth" so maybe "to lie beneath the earth". I havent found out what the other elements latin definition is but I will look into it.

[twix elbert]

this is an interesting theory and tool do make references to alchemy in the grudge

Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold.

someone should see if these elements are to do with metals and alchemy. i've done a few quick searches for them and added +alchemy and there are a fair few links.


http://www.alternativeapproaches.com/magick/alchemy/alchemy05.htm
this link mentions tellurium in the transmutation of silver etc into gold.

[crow011]

you people kick arse . . . keep going . . .

i like the idea of the "to lie beneath the earth" latin meaning thing . . .

you just might be onto something . . .

peace and blessed be . . .

crow011 . . .

[Gastebucher]

Originally posted by crow011
you people kick arse . . . keep going . . .

i like the idea of the "to lie beneath the earth" latin meaning thing . . .

you just might be onto something . . .

peace and blessed be . . .

crow011 . . .

[Gastebucher]

Sorry for the mistaken post above, Maybe when Maynard says Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold. If you can do an experiment with any of the elements listed above they should be in liquid form, Let the waters, ( referring to the elements in a liquid state) Kiss (touch) transmutate these leaden grudges into gold ( The outcome of the experiment) Just a thought

[Paraguay]

I did some research into this very interesting matter last night. Here's what i found out.


1. LA
Lanthanum - based on Greek 'lanthanein' - 'to escape notice' (due to it being undetected in cerium oxide)
Proton Number - 57
Relative Atomic Mass - 139
(Inner transition metal - Lanthanide Series)


2. TE
Tellurium - based on Latin 'tellus -uris' - 'earth'
Proton Number - 52
Relative Atomic Mass - 128
(Non-metal - Group 6)


3. RA
Radium - based on Latin 'radius' - 'ray'
Proton Number - 88
Relative Atomic Mass - 226
(Alkali metal - Group 2)


4. LU
Lutetium (Lutecium) - based on Latin 'Lutetia' - ancient name of Paris, France, home of it's original discoverer.
Proton Number - 71
Relative Atomic Mass - 175
(Inner transition metal - Lanthanide Series)


5. S
Sulphur (US: Sulfur) - based on Latin 'sulfur; sulp(h)ur'
Proton Number - 16
Relative Atomic Mass - 32
(Non-metal - Group 6)


While looking through the dictionary I found some other interesting pieces of information. 'LA' or 'LAH' is the 6th note of a major scale and the note A in a fixed-doh system. 'TE' or 'TI' is the 7th note of a major scale and the note B in a fixed-doh system. I was unable to find this musical system with the other letters of Lateralus, though I believe the 3rd one is 'RE.'


And yes, I do have to much time on my hands.

[aethereddy]

purely based on my education in the subject area of chemistry, i would say no such compound exists, and any attempt to create such a compound would probably result in radiation poisoning or cancer, as it did madame curie, who discovered radium.

the idea of a sequence of numbers i find far more likely. now we just need to figure out what 75-52-88-71-16 means.

[crow011]

do you think Latetia is anywhere near Rennes-le-chateau? . . . (see any TOOLband.com newsletter or dannycarey.org) . . .

there could be some significance there . . .

and what about the literal translation? . . . doesnt it come out to be something like, "to be beneath the earths rays something something something?" . . .

keep going . . .

peace and blessed be . . .

crow011 . . .

[Windowlicker]

Originally posted by aethereddy
purely based on my education in the subject area of chemistry, i would say no such compound exists, and any attempt to create such a compound would probably result in radiation poisoning or cancer, as it did madame curie, who discovered radium.

the idea of a sequence of numbers i find far more likely. now we just need to figure out what 75-52-88-71-16 means.

Maybe those numbers are from maynards creditcard :-)

[Smokin joe]

the thing is, that those elements can't just react and form with each other. After taking chemistry a couple semesters ago, i realized that it takes a couple of elements, and they need to be oppositely charged, etc... Lots goes into it, so i'm sure La + Te + Ra + Lu + S can't = anything. But maybe the coefficients of those elements could give us some info.

i also noticed, who cares if this means anything, who here has learned a little more about chemistry then they knew before.

joe - fucking nice observation

[tainednarf1014]

Maybe with the lyrics in the grudge about the water, lead, gold think he's refering to the theory of mixing hydrogen with any other element to get gold. See if theres any way to mix these elements with hydrogen to get gold.

[Professor Frink]

Originally posted by tainednarf1014
See if theres any way to mix these elements with hydrogen to get gold.

hehe they've been trying that for hundreds of years... i dont think it's possible.

And I agree that these elements most likely do no form a compound. You hardly ever see a substance with so many elements of such a wide range. Very cool idea though.

[Smokin joe]

you fool, gold is an element

joe

[KCh]

Alkhemical processes are deliberatly masked in symbolism.

Look up things about alchemy and lead, gold, salt, sulphur, etc...they all have different meanings considering you take its interpretation to be something spiritual and not actually practical.

Blair recently said something about a mysterious gas that I think will turn out to be very interesting and perhaps has something to do with what you all have 'discovered', though I doubt it.

[Professor Frink]

Originally posted by Smokin joe
you fool, gold is an element

joe

is that to me? I realize that gold is an element,.

[Mslash68]

I checked these elements out
lanthanum
Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: silvery white
Classification: Metallic
Lanthanum is silvery white
The metal reacts directly with elemental carbon, nitrogen, boron, selenium, silicon, phosphorus, sulphur, and with halogens>

tellurium
Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: silvery lustrous grey
Classification: Semi-metallic
Crystalline tellurium has a silvery-white appearance, and exhibits a metallic lustre when pure >

RAdium
Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: metallic
Classification: Metallic
Pure metallic radium is brilliant white when freshly prepared>

lutetium.
Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: silvery white
Classification: Metallic >

sulphur.

Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: lemon yellow
Classification: Non-metallic
Sulphur is a pale yellow, odourless, brittle solid, which is insoluble in water but soluble in carbon disulphide. Sulphur is essential to life. >

[crow011]

could it be a coincidence that they all weigh 298 k when solid? . . . and the colour thing? . . .

perhaps . . . perhaps not . . .

peace and blessed be . . .

crow011 . . .

[TheRuleOfThree]

Remember something important...

La, Te, Ra and Lu are all metals. Although they react to a certain extent with each other, the only element that would cause a major change with any of them would be Sulfur, in that it isn't a metal.

Mabe you should look into something like how Sulfur reacts with each of the metals. You might get more compelling or productive results.

[m4yn4rd]

i doubt it

[Smokin joe]

that's the spirit

joe

[wordto_ya_motha]

there was a guy named Johan Dobereiner who organized the periodic table and grouped the elements into TRIADS

this theory actually makes a lot of sense

or its a huge ass coincidence

[Andy]

Originally posted by wordto_ya_motha
there was a guy named Johan Dobereiner who organized the periodic table and grouped the elements into TRIADS

this theory actually makes a lot of sense

or its a huge ass coincidence

so you think its got something to do with the last song? This Element theory is really cool, and I hope we do solve it.

[tantric-formula]

Originally posted by crow011
do you think Latetia is anywhere near Rennes-le-chateau? there could be some significance there . . .

and what about the literal translation? . . . doesnt it come out to be something like, "to be beneath the earths rays something something something?" . . .

crow011 . . .

i definitely think it has to do something with what you mentioned, the grandest puzzle of all. if anybody hasnt read the story of the preists deathbed confession, you should, its on dannycarey.org.

Just some snip-its from the story here to further suggest the possible element theory of lateralus. While reading stuff that you guys have posted all of this came to my mind. Maybe this is the alchemic process in which to create gold.
This story takes place in the city Rennes-le-chateau, France.

"The answer may lie in one of the coded parchments (parchment one) allegedly discovered by Sauniere inside a hollow pillar that once supported the ancient altar. By connecting certain controlling devices embedded in the Latin text a similar pentagram can be drawn. This, itself, maybe a clue to the whereabouts of a much larger pentagram laid out over the landscape in the region (Rennes-le-chateau). One that mirrors the celestial Venusian pentacle, reminding us of that favorite phrase of the alchemists, "As above, so Below." It has been suggested by many researchers that the alignments of the pentagonal geometry overlaying the Rennes valley contains the key by which one may unlock a great secret."

"since Asmodeus is believed to be the keeper of secrets and guardian of treasures, in particular that of King Solomon, is Sauniere telling us that discovering the pentagonal geometry in the area is the first step in locating a legendary treasure hidden there, whether material or spiritual?"

"The demon crouched inside the doorway has been identified as Asmodeus (or REX MUNDI to others, the devil of the Cathars). Asmodeus is known as the custodian of secrets and the guardian of hidden treasure. He is also believed to be the builder of Solomon’s Temple. At one time, the frightening statue of the demon held a flaming torch in his hand. This too may be important - the idea of flames. Crouched in a mirror image of the devil is Jesus who is being baptized by John the Baptist with water poured from a silvered cockle-shell. fire and water. Could this be related to some kind of secret alchemical process?"

"Upon his return to Rennes-le Chateau, Sauniere began more ambitious renovations inside the crumbling church, exhuming an ancient Carolingian flagstone from the choir floor which concealed the entrance to a crypt beneath. And there by the glow of a lantern he discerned several shiny objects. Whatever the nature of his discovery was, it was evidently of considerable consequence and importance to someone, for the priest suddenly found himself living in the lap of luxury, spending money on a grand scale."

"Speculation as to the nature of this treasure varies among the numerous investigators and includes the following: that which was stolen from the Temple of Jerusalem, The Ark of the Covenant, The Holy Grail, The lost secrets of alchemy (a formula for turning baser metals into gold, or for turning baser man into a more perfected being), the wealth of the Cathars and Knights Templars, whether of a monetary or spiritual nature, genealogies attesting to the survival of the royal Merovingian bloodline, the tomb and preserved remains of Jesus or the reliquary of some other saint such as Mary Magdalene, catacombs filled with the Lords of old adorned in their glittering finery, a stargate technology for journeying to other heavenly realms, a doorway to another dimension by which one can escape the apocalypse and enter paradise, an enormous geometric temple encoded with information of a high-tech nature, occult manuscripts, tunnels leading to Atlantis, and even the entrance to a cavernous underground base that is/was the home to a race of reptilian extraterrestrial beings."

'"Other researchers have offered other equally-clever interpretations of the stations. In the same Station (Station VI), the cloth held by Veronica to wipe the face of Christ looks very much like a pelican. The pelican has always been an important alchemical symbol because the bird wounds itself (by pecking its breast) in order to feed its young with its own blood.1 Are we therefore looking at an alchemical text, with the various stages of the Great Work openly displayed in the church furnishings for "those with eyes to see?"

1 This misconception that the pelican nourished its offspring with the blood from its own breast may have been based on the fact that the bird regurgitates food stored in its pouch. Nevertheless, it is an alchemical symbol of the Philosopher’s Stone (which, acting as a touchstone, also nourishes its offspring)."'


Can anybody see where I am going with this? If you read the entire story you may get a better feel for what I am trying to say, but this secret of his may be what we are trying to figure out. To me this is somehow all connected to this element theory which may be off by some degrees.

I may insert some more commentary based on my findings.... Any thoughts on what I have dug up?

[lycanthya]

i read what was going on here and thought it was great, and then it got me thinking... well, yes, lateralus, this got me thinking about lateralis... does this have meanings? is it related at all, et...
this is what i found in the good old dictionaries:

(1)
lateralis
Synonym: lateral, lateral, lateral.
Origin: Latin

(2)
lateralis (lat·er·a·lis) (lat²[schwa]r-a¢lis) [TA] lateral: a term denoting a structure situated farther from the median plane of the body.

(3)
lateralis: of the side

i think for me the 2nd definition, is most appropriate to both song and to album.

on the other hand, and now this is almost completely irrelevant, lateralis is used in the scientific names for many animals, for example:

citellus lateralis

n : common black-striped reddish-brown ground squirrel of western North America; resembles a large chipmunk

now where the above meanings fit into this, i have still not understood... i am hoping someone with more brain cells than me can explain it... however, i think you guys are more on the ball...

[SparklingOpiate]

Just a random thought, could have no relation whatsoever but what about these elements ionized? I haven't looked into it, it just popped in my head as I was reading the thread, but do any of these elements have significant ionization states? Or any other properties that might help us out here....

[pacifister]

Originally posted by crow011
could it be a coincidence that they all weigh 298 k when solid? . . . and the colour thing? . . .


298 K is the temperature that they exist in their standard forms solid.

It's weight (or mass which are often confused) doesn't seem all that relevent because whatever it is we do with this stuff can probably be done with however much we want as long as the quantities are proportional.

I like the idea that the last Element Sulpher is a necessity of life. I think that's a significant piece of the puzzle.

[Sora]

This is probably the most ineresting thing i've ever read. I wrote down the information that some of you guys mentioned. I'll give it to my chemisry teacher, he is a genius so he will be able to find out all about it. You guys have really latched on to something here, and you should stick with it. Also, off the subject but thats the right amount of numbers for a phone number. Anyone called it?

[SparklingOpiate]

it's not a phone number....I called it....got one of those stupid recordings.....

[ShackledEidolon]

I would imagine as with many other alchemical thoughts that this is a metiphor for spiritual growth. If we look at the idea that Sulphur is needed for life then we can call it life for this thought experiment.

So we have all these inert metals that in and of themselves are very complex yet are inactive until the element of life is thrown into the mix. Which element was it ...Lanthanum...reacts directly with sulpur...perhaps it is some sort of liason between life and this other quality that the elements possess.

I would tend to think less of the actual 'true' chemical process occuring and more towards the symbolism of numbers and the nature of the word lateralus itself. Lateral to the side and us of course being US (u and me) we are besides ourselves giving an objective vision...both within and without if indeed all are one.

75-52-88-71-16 ....I'd check into the numbers themselves and what they coorespond to. I know the number 16 COULD be the 16th path of the septhiroth or key 16 "The tower". But I dont know enough about that to really help out that much. But I would focus on the numerology and the latin roots of the elements to look for meaning and clues.

[SparklingOpiate]

Further thoughts, looking at this in terms of symbolism what do each of the 5 elements represent or stand for? Sulfer seems to be the necessary ingredient for the pieces to fit. What about the number 5? I'm throwing these out for anyone to think about, I haven't gotten any solids idea yet but what relates to five elements, I know the # 5 has importance somewhere or another I just can't think of in what context.

[dork]

Good thinking, but its split up like this
la-te-ra-lus
not la-te-ra-lu-s

[tainednarf1014]

In reply to the post above. Thats a good point its the only section of the title that contains 3 letters and its at the end of the word could this have any relation to Disp/Refl/Triad songs that are considered one. they to are at the end of the CD.

On a Different note. I would like to thank you all for the compliments on my theory. I was afraid to post it for a while because every theory I ever posted was torn to shreds and looked down on. You guys are great and im glad I have so much support with this theory. Thanks again

[George Bush Sr.]

i found something that said "latetia (modern day paris)" which isn't that far from rennes but it's not right next to it.
i also found that tellurium, radium, and sulpher are mentioned on a lot of alchemy websites but not the others. none of them are really symbolical either, just literal.

[Jerk-Off]

Just so you guys know, the reason gold can't be "created" is because it's an element itself, as has been stated earlier. You can't create oxygen, or hyrdogen, or carbon, or sulfur, or any of the other elements either.

good ideas though, for sure..

[Mark D]

Has anyone thought about radioactive decay?

Thinking deeply: Mark D

[crow011]

Originally posted by Mark D
Has anyone thought about radioactive decay?


not lately . . . what about you? . . .

ive thought about social decay, and tooth decay . . .

ive also thought about getting somehing to eat . . .

peace and blessed be . . .

crow011 . . .

[Mark D]

Originally posted by crow011
not lately . . . what about you? . . .

ive thought about social decay, and tooth decay . . .

ive also thought about getting somehing to eat . . .

peace and blessed be . . .

crow011 . . .


Crow? Of all people to get off topic I never thought it would be you! You are usually spewing full of intelligence. What happened? Its chaos here. Chaos I tell you!


Dammit now Im hungry... Mark D

[Jerk-Off]

no offense mark but i dont think radioactive decay has anything to do with.. anything =] i think all it means is when a radioactive substance is sitting alone, the rate at which it naturally decays into nothing. doesnt really change into anything new. but.. maybe i missed your point

[polarforsker]

Perhaps this is the key to all the Tool mysteries?!

Orginally posted by tainednarf1014
Maynard says he wants people to use there minds more and think so lets get crackin.



Originally posted by Smokin joe
I also noticed, who cares if this means anything, who here has learned a little more about chemistry then they knew before?


So if Maynard wants people to use their minds... he's has done one hell of job making you guys do it!

I'm not saying it's all bogus and hoax, but in theory you've proven yourself right... and Maynard must be proud!

(interesting theory on the lateralus title nevertheless, keep it going) :)

[Mark D]

Originally posted by Jerk-Off
no offense mark but i dont think radioactive decay has anything to do with.. anything =] i think all it means is when a radioactive substance is sitting alone, the rate at which it naturally decays into nothing. doesnt really change into anything new. but.. maybe i missed your point

Im not sure if I had a point so I didnt take any offense. But when an element decays, doesnt it lose electrons? So maybe an element could change into a different element (ie gold) ? Its been a while since I had Chemistry class, so I dont fully remember.

[msemple]

This is just random thought= maybe if you write the shortened electron configurations down you'll get something... or not?

[Spiralman]

Originally posted by tantric-formula
i definitely think it has to do something with what you mentioned, the grandest puzzle of all. if anybody hasnt read the story of the preists deathbed confession, you should, its on dannycarey.org.

Just some snip-its from the story here to further suggest the possible element theory of lateralus. While reading stuff that you guys have posted all of this came to my mind. Maybe this is the alchemic process in which to create gold.
This story takes place in the city Rennes-le-chateau, France.

"The answer may lie in one of the coded parchments (parchment one) allegedly discovered by Sauniere inside a hollow pillar that once supported the ancient altar. By connecting certain controlling devices embedded in the Latin text a similar pentagram can be drawn. This, itself, maybe a clue to the whereabouts of a much larger pentagram laid out over the landscape in the region (Rennes-le-chateau). One that mirrors the celestial Venusian pentacle, reminding us of that favorite phrase of the alchemists, "As above, so Below." It has been suggested by many researchers that the alignments of the pentagonal geometry overlaying the Rennes valley contains the key by which one may unlock a great secret."

"since Asmodeus is believed to be the keeper of secrets and guardian of treasures, in particular that of King Solomon, is Sauniere telling us that discovering the pentagonal geometry in the area is the first step in locating a legendary treasure hidden there, whether material or spiritual?"

"The demon crouched inside the doorway has been identified as Asmodeus (or REX MUNDI to others, the devil of the Cathars). Asmodeus is known as the custodian of secrets and the guardian of hidden treasure. He is also believed to be the builder of Solomon’s Temple. At one time, the frightening statue of the demon held a flaming torch in his hand. This too may be important - the idea of flames. Crouched in a mirror image of the devil is Jesus who is being baptized by John the Baptist with water poured from a silvered cockle-shell. fire and water. Could this be related to some kind of secret alchemical process?"

"Upon his return to Rennes-le Chateau, Sauniere began more ambitious renovations inside the crumbling church, exhuming an ancient Carolingian flagstone from the choir floor which concealed the entrance to a crypt beneath. And there by the glow of a lantern he discerned several shiny objects. Whatever the nature of his discovery was, it was evidently of considerable consequence and importance to someone, for the priest suddenly found himself living in the lap of luxury, spending money on a grand scale."

"Speculation as to the nature of this treasure varies among the numerous investigators and includes the following: that which was stolen from the Temple of Jerusalem, The Ark of the Covenant, The Holy Grail, The lost secrets of alchemy (a formula for turning baser metals into gold, or for turning baser man into a more perfected being), the wealth of the Cathars and Knights Templars, whether of a monetary or spiritual nature, genealogies attesting to the survival of the royal Merovingian bloodline, the tomb and preserved remains of Jesus or the reliquary of some other saint such as Mary Magdalene, catacombs filled with the Lords of old adorned in their glittering finery, a stargate technology for journeying to other heavenly realms, a doorway to another dimension by which one can escape the apocalypse and enter paradise, an enormous geometric temple encoded with information of a high-tech nature, occult manuscripts, tunnels leading to Atlantis, and even the entrance to a cavernous underground base that is/was the home to a race of reptilian extraterrestrial beings."

'"Other researchers have offered other equally-clever interpretations of the stations. In the same Station (Station VI), the cloth held by Veronica to wipe the face of Christ looks very much like a pelican. The pelican has always been an important alchemical symbol because the bird wounds itself (by pecking its breast) in order to feed its young with its own blood.1 Are we therefore looking at an alchemical text, with the various stages of the Great Work openly displayed in the church furnishings for "those with eyes to see?"

1 This misconception that the pelican nourished its offspring with the blood from its own breast may have been based on the fact that the bird regurgitates food stored in its pouch. Nevertheless, it is an alchemical symbol of the Philosopher’s Stone (which, acting as a touchstone, also nourishes its offspring)."'


Can anybody see where I am going with this? If you read the entire story you may get a better feel for what I am trying to say, but this secret of his may be what we are trying to figure out. To me this is somehow all connected to this element theory which may be off by some degrees.

I may insert some more commentary based on my findings.... Any thoughts on what I have dug up?

Just noticed that the favorite quote of alchemists above, "As above, so Below" is rearranged in track 9 to "As below, so above and beyond I imagine." More alchemy imagery perhaps. Oh yeah, the name of track 9: Lateralus.

J Lee

[Jerk-Off]

I'm no chemistry expert myself.. I'm just now in my second semester of college chemistry.

But this is how I think it works. Say you have a certain amount of some element that decays. That amount of substance is made up of an insane amount of individual atoms. Of course each atom has electrons and protons. When it decays, it doesn't just lose the electrons. It loses the atoms as a whole. Therefore you are left with the exact same type of atoms, just not as many of them.

You really cant split atoms apart unless you get into nuclear physics and all that.. which I'm not really knowledgable to say much about.


That's why gold is valuable in the first place. It's an element and therefore cannot be created. All we have is the limited amount that was originally here on earth.

Hope that helped some.

[pacifister]

Originally posted by Mark D
Im not sure if I had a point so I didnt take any offense. But when an element decays, doesnt it lose electrons? So maybe an element could change into a different element (ie gold) ? Its been a while since I had Chemistry class, so I dont fully remember.

Electron number doesn't change elements. When molecules lose electrons they become ions. hey waitaminute this has nothing to do with the puzzle but accidently refered to another Tool song (-)ions.
Proton number is what makes an element I believe. All the other particles are variable but if an lelment lost a proton it would be a different element. I'm pretty sure it's impossible for an elements to lose protons.

[Jerk-Off]

kinda getting off topic here (in the overall view of things) but:

What pac said was right other than the part about it being impossible for an element to lose protons. I just busted out the chemistry book..

In nuclear fission, there are certain things like uranium and plutonium that can be bombared with neutrons.

1 Neutron + 1 Uranium atom = 1 Barium atom + 1 Krypton atom + 3 neutrons

fission is only for big atoms though. fusion is for smaller atoms but takes so much heat that its really impossible to do anywhere other than on the sun.

so.. again, its not really possible to make gold. although some things are possible to create through nuclear reaction like that. :]

[Phlame]

Originally posted by m4yn4rd
ok well...

la = lanthanum
te = tellurium
ra = radium
lu = lutetium
s = sulfur or (sulphur)

ok well they all are elements, now is it possible anyone can get their hands on these, i doubt it, if so that would be cool, watch you mix it and a 3d puff of gas forms into maynards head
the amounts of what u use matter and some are unobtainable by us definately

[Phlame]

Originally posted by Smokin joe
you fool, gold is an element

joe

not pure gold!

[Phlame]

Originally posted by Jerk-Off
I'm no chemistry expert myself.. I'm just now in my second semester of college chemistry.

But this is how I think it works. Say you have a certain amount of some element that decays. That amount of substance is made up of an insane amount of individual atoms. Of course each atom has electrons and protons. When it decays, it doesn't just lose the electrons. It loses the atoms as a whole. Therefore you are left with the exact same type of atoms, just not as many of them.

You really cant split atoms apart unless you get into nuclear physics and all that.. which I'm not really knowledgable to say much about.


That's why gold is valuable in the first place. It's an element and therefore cannot be created. All we have is the limited amount that was originally here on earth.

Hope that helped some.

im in 7th grade and u can slplit atoms (a-bomb) fairly easily
i think they used hydrogen becuz it was eezy to split

this is a kickass thread but are we "over thinking over analyzing, seperating body from the mind"?

hey i dont want u gize to flame me for that i think wat weer doing is lagitament!

[Jerk-Off]

since you're in 7th grade i'll go easy on you for thinking that it's "easy" to split atoms :]

oh.. and yes, pure gold is an element. look on your periodic table for "Au"

[Well Known]

Originally posted by Digital Dreamer
I can talk to my Chem. teacher about this. But if one were to create this substance... i think that they would find that there is insufficient information as to HOW to create it. For instance, what state shoudl the elements be put into Gas liquid solid? or how much to use.... i like the idea of the atomic numbers and i will look into what they could be used to mean....... ill keep you updated


There is a fourth state called "Super Conductor" which exists as colder than solid. Just a fact.

[OpiAtE_666]

Just wanted to add something about creating elements. This of course is possible, because every element after Uranium is manmade and doesn't occur in nature by itself at all. There's two ways to create elements out of other elements

fusion

for example, if one H (hydrogen) atom is traveling fast enough, and it hits another H atom, the two can combine to form He, Helium.

fission

If you hit an existing atom with a beta particle, you can split it into two different atoms.

I think it would be possible to make gold one atom at a time in a billion dollar nuclear reactor... so its kind of impractical.

I think if you went to a chemist or a chemistry teacher with the symbols of the elements, La,Te,Ra, and S, they could look it up in the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics or some other book and find out if these atoms would react. I doubt if all 5 would react, but anything's possible.

I'm going to look at theat numerical sequence and see if I can make any sense of it.

[Rogue47]

Um, this thought just popped into my head while reading thise thread and listening to "The Grudge," but hasn't there been talk on the Tool website about Maynard making some sort of special wine in his own vineyard? I'm trying very hard to think of what they were talking about, and maybe I'm wrong, but does anyone know if gold, or the making of, had anything to do with Maynard's wine making?

[dueler25]

The thing about splitting hydrogen to make an H-bomb may only be feasible because of the simple nature of hydrogen atoms. It would be way harder to do the same thing with a more complex element like uranium. Of course, it can be done, but not easily.

[Phlame]

Originally posted by Well Known
There is a fourth state called "Super Conductor" which exists as colder than solid. Just a fact.

yah super solid is also a state and coloid

[Phlame]

Originally posted by Jerk-Off
since you're in 7th grade i'll go easy on you for thinking that it's "easy" to split atoms :]

oh.. and yes, pure gold is an element. look on your periodic table for "Au"


i sed fairyly easy as in doable but ardous im not sayin we can just go around splitting atoms but that we can if we need ot

[joeyt17]

I think this was mentioned before, but i will add a little more to it. on the album it is

La-Te-Ra-LuS

the Sulfer is connected to Lu (lutetium) so maybe that connection right there signifies a chemical bond. it could be the elements don't all bond together to form some huge compund, but lutetium and Sulpher may be the ones that bond together to form a substance.

Just thought i'd throw some gas on the fire, see if it lets anyones thoughts prevail or maybe create new ideas

[hardcore_oli21]

I am a new member to this board as of today but i have been coming and checking out ideas since the opinions section reopened
i checked out some stuff on this subject today and got this theory
for any metal to react it usually needs to react with a non-metal
if i'm not wrong the last digit in the word lateralus is "S" which would stand for sodium which is a non metal
so the equations we have are as follows
La+S=
Te=S=
Ra+S=
Lu+S=
out of these 5 elements, their order in the reactivity series is
Ra
La
Te
Lu
S
So obviously in the equations i worked out earlier none of the metals should displace the sodium so perhaps we should get
Lanthanum sulphate
Tallurium Sulphate
Radium Sulphate
and
Lutetium Sulphate

can anyone use this to help or can anyone figure out the element names for
Tallurium Sulphate
Radium Sulphate
and
Lutetium Sulphate
Ta

[KroniKlepto]

ok i checked out the links that mstajduh threw out there and here's the nuggets of what i got from them...

X-ray studies indicate that amorphous sulfur may have a <b>helical structure with eight atoms per spiral.</b>

<b>Sulfur is essential to life.</b>

(Lutetia, ancient name for Paris, sometimes called cassiopeium by the Germans)

Cassiopeia - This beautiful constellation at the edge of the Milky Way has definetely the shape of a "W".

lutetium is still the <b>most costly</b> of all rare earths.

(L. radius, ray) Radium was discovered in 1898 by Mme. Curie in the pitchblende or uraninite of North Bohemia, ..........on <b>distillation in an atmosphere of hydrogen this amalgam yielded the pure metal.</b>

Radium is used in the producing of self-luminous paints, neutron sources, and in <b>medicine for the treatment of disease.</b>

<b>Lead</b> is a final product of disintegration. (radium)

Tellurium improves the machinability of copper and stainless steel, and <b>its addition to lead decreases the corrosive action of sulfuric acid on lead and improves its strength and hardness.</b>

Lanthanum is silvery white, malleable, ductile, and soft enough to be cut with a knife. It is one of the most reactive of the rare-earth metals. It oxidezes rapidly when exposed to air. Cold water attacks lanthanum slowly, and hot water attacks it much more rapidly. <b>the metal reacts directly with elemental</b> carbon, nitrogen, boron, selenium, silicon, phosphorus, <b>sulfur</b>, and with halogens.

swing: To move laterally or in a curve


i'm still looking into this but feel free to throw your own $.02 in.

[tainednarf1014]

Has anyone discovered anything new in relation to this. The more I dig the more im pointed in the direction of alchemy I think Maynard has alot of Alchemy related lyrics and ive also come to believe that eastern asian reliqions are an intrest of his and a tool used in his lyrical expressions

[pacifister]

Originally posted by mstajduh
From these clues, I would say it means.. Here lies beneath the earth (cemetary) in paris "A season in Hell" ( Une Saison en Enfer)


I think this is in the right direction. I have no reason to think so. Call it intuition. and why exactly is Sulpher necessary to all life?

[LearnedStudent]

I'm reminded of a quote from Pi.

You want to find the number 216 in the world, you will be able to find it everywhere. 216 steps from a mere street corner to your front door. 216 seconds you spend riding on the elevator. When your mind becomes obsessed with anything, you will filter everything else out and find that thing everywhere.

[GregoryWohlwend]

75-52-88-71-16

loosely translated in hebrew from the best thing i could find, don't know how accurate is with the numbers exactly.

la = 75 = eye breath
te = 52 = fish house
ra = 88 = mouth fence
lu = 71 = eye ox
s = 16 = hand hook

lus = 71 + 16 = mouth weapon

see what you can do with this, i just found it.

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/STRINDEX.htm

75 = abac (aw - bas) = a primitive root; to fodder - fatted, stalled
52 = abiyshay (ab-ee-shah'ee) father of a gift, 'generous', abishai = an isrealite
88 = obth = (o - both) = plural of owb, water skins, Oboth, a place in the desert
71 = abanah = (ab-aw-naw) = perhaps feminine of 'eben' with the article inserted; stone of help; eben-ha-ezer, a place in palestine
16 = ebeh (ay-beh) = from 'abah' in the sense of bending toward; the papyrus -- swift.

71+16=87= abram = contracted from 'abiyram', high father; Abram, the original name of Abraham, Abram.

perhaps this can be connected in some way

humble generous Oboth stone of help bend towards??? i dunno, i'm not sure how the grammar works or how such sentences can be flipped around. anyone come up with anything else from this link or data?


i also found a greek one on there, i gathered from it loosely that it went something like this

75 52 88 (71+16)87 'how it appears on the album cover'
Strive towards ignorance permanantly and completely

perhaps leaping towards death in this state, complete ignorance lies in death only or perhaps drugs of some sort... i thought that greek translation was quite interesting

[JustifiedDenial]

Have we considered the valences of each of these elements? Valences help us determine Chemical formulae.

La - Lanthanum = +3
Te - Tellurium = -2, (+2), +4, +6
Ra - Radium = +2
Lu - Lutetium = +3
S - Sulphur = -2, +2, +4, +6

Would these numbers be of any use?

We also should work out which element can react with what. The metals, Lanthanum, Radium and Lutetium might react with non-metal, Sulphur, forming an ionic bond. This leaves the semi-metal, Tellurium...

Does anyone have any other ideas?

[aluchealchemist]

after a couple of months just reading ive decided to join this....susprisingly enlightening


back to the subject, its common knowledge that in the future Paris would be, i think literally, in flames, like if it was the new sodom or something....i say 'common' but actually its not that common....also, there are songs that relate to this, like 'arde paris' (burn paris in spanish), but i doubt its realted to alchemy....

dont forget the water-fire thing cause i think it has some importance too....

oh, and ive just found this website, really basic, but it contains an interesting bibliography regarding alchemy and the rennes mystery for begginers like myself.


in the wise words of maynard and crow011, keep going....

[aluchealchemist]

dammit, forgot the link, sorry..

http://www.connectotel.com/rennes/

[kirby]

quote: http://www.alternativeapproaches.co...y/alchemy05.htm
this link mentions tellurium in the TRANSMUTATION of SILVER etc into GOLD.

+

quote:
Maybe when Maynard says Let the waters kiss and TRANSMUTATE these LEADEN grudges into GOLD. If you can do an experiment with any of the elements listed above they should be in liquid form, Let the waters, ( referring to the elements in a liquid state) Kiss (touch) transmutate these leaden grudges into gold ( The outcome of the experiment) Just a thought

...maynard talks about (even uses the same word: transmutate) lead "transmutating" to gold, and tellurium does this, only with silver instead of lead, but lead is the same color as silver (or at least close enough)...

[astaroth]

Originally posted by Paraguay
I did some research into this very interesting matter last night. Here's what i found out.


1. LA
Lanthanum - based on Greek 'lanthanein' - 'to escape notice' (due to it being undetected in cerium oxide)
Proton Number - 57
Relative Atomic Mass - 139
(Inner transition metal - Lanthanide Series)


2. TE
Tellurium - based on Latin 'tellus -uris' - 'earth'
Proton Number - 52
Relative Atomic Mass - 128
(Non-metal - Group 6)


3. RA
Radium - based on Latin 'radius' - 'ray'
Proton Number - 88
Relative Atomic Mass - 226
(Alkali metal - Group 2)


4. LU
Lutetium (Lutecium) - based on Latin 'Lutetia' - ancient name of Paris, France, home of it's original discoverer.
Proton Number - 71
Relative Atomic Mass - 175
(Inner transition metal - Lanthanide Series)


5. S
Sulphur (US: Sulfur) - based on Latin 'sulfur; sulp(h)ur'
Proton Number - 16
Relative Atomic Mass - 32
(Non-metal - Group 6)


While looking through the dictionary I found some other interesting pieces of information. 'LA' or 'LAH' is the 6th note of a major scale and the note A in a fixed-doh system. 'TE' or 'TI' is the 7th note of a major scale and the note B in a fixed-doh system. I was unable to find this musical system with the other letters of Lateralus, though I believe the 3rd one is 'RE.'


And yes, I do have to much time on my hands.

This is interesting. Ok there was a reference there to ancient paris, hiding from notice, earth, etc,etc. Just a thought i had. If anyone recalls from the Tool recommended reading list there was a book called Holy Blood and the Holy Grail. This was a great book. Now the reason i mention it is because the whole research revolves around France and the merovignian bloodline-which the authors believe to be direct descendants of Jesus Christ.Now what if, like schism says, they've given us a puzzle and through communication such as this we can make the pieces fit?A prominent quote from the book is ET IN ARCADIA EGO which means "in arcadia i lie". Now i'm curious as to the connection between lateralus and the above mentioned as, if you recall, earlier on this year on the Tool official website this was mentioned in essay form. Keep working on the title, and maybe we can make the pieces fit.

[Ascended Master]

cool read relevant to, LA TE RA LUS could be the secret formulafor saturn!
read this please and see if it makes sense to u
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/hollandus_saturn.html
I hope the link works, if not post a note saying it doesnt work and ill try something else OK. Peace Jake

[axe4moe]

i know you guys are all ment to get what ever you can for yourselves out of tools lyrics and music, but you guys are way off. it was a good hack i admit, but the actual make up of these chemicals are purely coincidental. fact is, maynard was readinging and getting inspiration from sources that date way further back before people knew the make up of atoms.

the truth i believe folks, lies within some early news letters (September 2002 to be exact) about Maynards "Templar knights wine" in which he was trying to copy or reproduce.
This procedure is not just a scientific experiment, it is an ART. art of coarse goes further than material, it digs with the body, soul and spirit. You have just reached the surface of the alchamist/Material/Body aspect something great Maynard has uncovered. i will reveal more if someone else is listening, but if not then don't answer back. balls in your court Solve et Coagula

[LuisCarruthers]

I'm listening axe4moe. Tell us more.....

[axe4moe]

well, first of all i start by commending your effeorts, the latin was a good guess, if not educated. so were finding the symbols in the periodic tables and such.

But the only true connection i have found between you research and mine is sulfur. from my research i am under the inmpression that there are seven different metels to be found within the secrets of maynards words... "as below, so above " refers to the ascending and descending to heaven and back, but even that is metaphorical. the "above" is refering to astrology, and "below" is alchemly.
To understand this you need to understand them both.
In alchemy there is seven metals to be worked with
In astrology 7 planets.

Can anyone guess what there are seven of in us?

[axe4moe]

Of coarse i could go on and on showing you the simularities of his lyrics and a certain "porcess" or "Art" that is named VITRIOL(LATIN).


http://www.crcsite.org/Tabula.htm

V isita "Visit"
I nteriora the "interior"
T errae "of the earth;"
R ectificando "in rectifying,"
I nvenies "discover"
O ccultum "the hidden"
L apidem "stone."

I'll let you guys play around for a bit and looks for the endless simularities between Maynards work and this.
So now you can see why i believe he is speking in the pwocess of creating templar wine for this very process... :)

[axe4moe]

also looking at the cover found some interesting facts too...

acording to the site above there are seven points on the body named chakra's. these are
Heart, brow(forehead), crown, navel, sacral, throat and the base....now then. the infinate eye (as what i think it's called is placed on 3 on these chakras so far of what i can see, on the front of the lateralus cover (assuming base is the centre point of the chest,). then again it could be the heart though.
again another hunch in meaings but it's too close to be coinidental hmmm?.
Of coarse this being all coincidental, seeing as real reasons behind pictures come from the artist (guess who?) making maynard not the one to balme for this one. i believe thought if we saw the rest of the man on the front cover you would be sure to find more "chakras" in there places...

[random_1]

whats Solve et Coagula thatsa mudvayne song

and whats tabula. tabula is a sinch song. singing about some thing we carnt see.

sorry a lil off track. but what do they mean?

anyway. just a lil observation dus the number 9 have any thing to do with this. there is nine letters in lateralus, there is 9 fire eyes on the skin cover on the left side. and lateralis is number 9 song on the cd?

[LuisCarruthers]

Oil of vitriol is a name for various sulfates. One of the 7 achemial ingredients. Along with mercury and salt, sulfur is one of the main ingredients. Was sulfur the soul? Or spirit? No, soul, mercury was the spirit and salt the body.

As for Solve et Coagula, from one aspect, it is a simple achemial meditation. Stemming from the destruction/reconstruction theory. I guess it sounds like a clensing, focusing meditation. Prepearation.

.........Still listening.....

[dawn]

Ummm...Lateralus comes from latin...it means roughly...being on or to the side, away from the midline...


My handy dandy dictionary defines it as...Of or constituting a change within an organization or a hierarchy to a position at a similar level, as in salary or responsibility, to the one being left: made a lateral move within the company...

... Linguistics Of, relating to, or being a sound produced by breath passing along one or both sides of the tongue. ...

[axe4moe]

"Saturn Ascends, the one the ten"

Saturn is one of the branches on the tree of life, known also as "Binah" acording to this page. it's in the top left corner just below the middle top branch....see for yourself

http://www.crcsite.org/Tabula.htm

it's a small picutre with ten points on it(latin in each point).
Now i know this is from the song "the grudge" but bear with me, it all connects.
now for saturn to "ascend", this means it would rise to keter if going from the diagram.
what this means, i have know idea really, but they are too simular to be ignored.

oh and BTW Solve et Coagula means to:

Solve: dissolve, separate, break down and analyze.

et: join the two steps back together.

Coagula: synthezise the purified parts.


Another part i found similar was the colors he describes seeing in his "infancy".

Black then white are all i see in my infancy.
red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me.
lets me see.

now agin from the emerald tablet
The first signifieth gold, is intentionally YELLOW.
The second for fair WHITE silver.
The third, Mercurius, is likewise grey.
The fourth for tin, is heaven-blue.
The fifth for iron, is blood-RED.
The sixth for copper, is true green.
The seventh for lead, is BLACK as coal.

The first word is Visita and is attributed to the Sun. This is the heart chakra.
The second word is Interiora and is attributed to the Moon. This is the brow chakra.
The third word is Terrae and is attributed to Mercury. This is the crown chakra.
The fourth word is Rectificando and is attributed to Jupiter. This is the navel chakra.
The fifth word is Invenies and is attributed to Mars. This is the sacral chakra.
The sixth word is Occultum and is attributed to Venus. This is the throat chakra.
The seventh word is Lapidem and is attributed to saturn. This is the base chakra.

Now, Lapidem was latin for "stone" andis attributed to saturn. Saturn ascends could have some relation to a stone as black as coal ascending to something...
this is the part where i go crosseyed :/

[axe4moe]

"Black then white are all i see in my infancy.
red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me.
lets me see."

Now in translation to the tree of life and the emerald tablets attributes:

Saturn then moon are all i see in my infancy.
Mars and Sun then came to be, reaching out to me.
lets me see.

Does anyone know anything about astrology? cause i'm stuck here....

[LuisCarruthers]

Originally posted by axe4moe

The first signifieth gold, is intentionally YELLOW.
The second for fair WHITE silver.
The third, Mercurius, is likewise grey.
The fourth for tin, is heaven-blue.
The fifth for iron, is blood-RED.
The sixth for copper, is true green.
The seventh for lead, is BLACK as coal.



Just a side note...gold is yellow. Silver ..whiteish. Mercury grey. Iron has red/orange qualities under the right conditions. Copper obviously is green. Lead leaves black residue.

Does anyone know if tin has any situation where it has blue reaction? eg, like copper being green?

On another point. I keep coming back to the spiral. The Fibonacci thing. I think of ...wait for my brilliant spelling... I think of the coreolous effect. For those who don't recognise my word, I mean the way the water goes down the drain. In a spiral. And thanks to the Simpsons, we should all know that the water goes dfferent directions in the north and south hemispheres. seperate and reunite.

[LuisCarruthers]

ok, Saturn and moon - infancy. Looking to the future? Saturn comes past every 29 years, and it is like the end of childhood. Is the moon the father? Because it sounds like someone is looking to their future, questioning the man he will be, and the one he came from. Hmm. Moon= feelings, emotions. Saturn deals with reality, who we are. Our limits and powers. Sun is our core. Mars is our drive and ambition. As a child could he see his path? Mars reaching out to me? Lets me see?

I don't know where I am going with this. Just finding more jigsaw pieces.

[bullet proof]

Originally posted by axe4moe
[B]"Saturn Ascends, the one the ten"

Saturn is one of the branches on the tree of life, known also as "Binah" acording to this page. it's in the top left corner just below the middle top branch....see for yourself

http://www.crcsite.org/Tabula.htm


I think you've hit the nail on the head with this one. The words on the diagram (Visita interiora Terrae Rectificando
Invenies Occultum Lapidem) are the same ones that appear on the second page of Danny Carey's website (http://www.dannycarey.org/page2.html).

[stef]

i just like to say firstly that this development you guys have made on this is excelent ive been visiting this thread for over 2 months just seeing what developments have been made.

but just a random thought... the fibonacci sqeuence i found very interesting when relating it to maynards lyrics and just tool artwork in general
A) in the track lateralus towards the end maynard says

"I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.

Spiral out. Keep going, going..."

this to me just is full of ponderable things which i could blab about for a very long time but ill try and keep it short - ish.

firstly "whatever will biwilder me" it is sounding to me like maynard is setting us the listeners the intulectuals *haha* a chalenge to actually think about what he means and by god it is a hard task!

and maybe the following our will and "wind" we may just go etc could be related to alchemy im not really clued up on it too much... although i am aware of the pentagonal geographical referances made earlier in this thread, and the emerald tablet which is referd to

but now im just blabbing etc so ill take a different angle

maybe maynard is bieng ovbiously literal and just asking us as human biengs to be more free thinking and true to ourselfs as he has made points of saying in songs before such as things like third eye and hooker, to spiral out maybe a metaphor to grow and to expand not only our physical state but our mental bieng? (but come on lets face it maynard having a simple meaning... i doubt that) :D

another random idea is the number 9, it seems to be very important as said many times before but i just noticed that there are nine focal points on the "emerald tablet" and also the greek diagram possibly used to simmulate/understand its meaning "Azoth of the Philosophers" if that adds anything at all
read this... http://www.alchemylab.com/azoth.htm
if youve not already seen it

anyway back to the fibonacci! i also noticed that the artwork in the lateralus album sleve fits into the sequence... well not the charecter the spiraling paterns and the white pentagram surrounding his head seem to fit with this sequence

HEY WAIT...maybe even the musical structure fits into this sequence but now im just talking poo but they could make it work :P

oh yea something else i just rememberd on the disc itself whats that really small word say it looks like "nelor" or something i have no idea what it means or what language or gliphs it is using

but im going to cut off my random blab now so other people can talk... ive got alot more to say but ill save that for someother time, ive only started my arguements to get other peoples minds working of my thoughts... so if people read this and get a idea... post it and one day the world will understand tool!
or how to make a compound out of 5 random elements or how to turn lead into gold or how to find king solomans temple or however many other ideas were well ill let you all keep thinking

p.s i like the tabula ideas and chakera ideas they seem to fit if you look on the parabola video the lotus flowers and things seem to simulate the "blossoming" of chakera... just a thought

[axe4moe]

Originally posted by bullet proof
I think you've hit the nail on the head with this one. The words on the diagram (Visita interiora Terrae Rectificando
Invenies Occultum Lapidem) are the same ones that appear on the second page of Danny Carey's website (http://www.dannycarey.org/page2.html).

THAT is very observant!
i must say well done for that, even after you telling me and me looking at it the words are barley visable

ok time to finish up on my over all details to what i think the bands lyrics mean:

if anyone has read the faq on this site, you might have realized that the song Lateralus has an off beat to it. what the hell i'll post it anyway:

** Why can't I mosh to "Lateralus" correctly?
Unlike most songs, which stay in one time signature for at least two measures, track 9 on this album features a measure of nine beats, a measure of eight, then a measure of seven, repeating. This FAQ is not going to teach you how to count rhythms, but that will at least get you on your way.

This may have no connection to what we are talking about, but the fact that Danny Carey changes the beat pattern for this song could mean something symbolic to himself. Therefore it is in my best knowledge that this song could in fact have some thing to do with his intrests in alchemy.

As said before, alchemy can only exist when all three vessels of consciesness (physical, mental and spiritual) workin in one to create ONE. It is also said you can make gold from these steps, but it also to is said that you can become a whole being that is ONE in itsself (don't ask me what the hell that means cause i don't really know). My best guess is maynard is singing throughout the whole album about each step of process we must go through for this outcome. whether he is talking about making gold, becoming a transcended being or what not is out of our reach to grasp.

What i have found though lyrically is that he has taken inspiration from the emerald tablet and it's teaching of alchemy and made a cd out of it. End of story for me really.....to question further without an answer from the man himself would be percieved as grasping truth from our own opinions, which varies as we have seen from this thread.

Another exempt from the toolshed from the toolshed faq:

"** Why are "Disposition", "Reflection", and "Triad" all linked together on the back cover?
They were originally all conceived as one song, but ultimately broke into three separate tracks. They never had any collective title, however. "

THREE songs, ment to be linked together. these songs are all different sounding but all linked. how so i believe, is that they all represent each state of consciesnes (physical, mental and spiritual).

Anyway it's all food for thought as they say...... :)

P.S. just found a book written by Aleister Crowley. with much the same pictures right through it as the ones on the emerald tablet website.

[Kholdfire]

I did some work and found that the elements La and Lu do not bond molecularly... or is is ionicly? either way. The ones that i foudn would bond the easiest are Te, Ra, and S. When making a structure for this, I found that the group numbers of these are 4, 2, and 6. Rearranged we get 4, 6, and 2, or 46 & 6 (a theory of evolution). Possible AEnima reference? who knows, but when making the structure I had to add 4 hydrogens for balancing purposes. I wish I had payed more atention in chemistry.

Try adding up the atomic weights, the atomic numbers, the "gram" mass, etc etc. Maybe we'll find something out.

[bullet proof]

Originally posted by Kholdfire
I did some work and found that the elements La and Lu do not bond molecularly... or is is ionicly? either way. The ones that i foudn would bond the easiest are Te, Ra, and S. When making a structure for this, I found that the group numbers of these are 4, 2, and 6. Rearranged we get 4, 6, and 2, or 46 & 6 (a theory of evolution). Possible AEnima reference? who knows, but when making the structure I had to add 4 hydrogens for balancing purposes. I wish I had payed more atention in chemistry.

Try adding up the atomic weights, the atomic numbers, the "gram" mass, etc etc. Maybe we'll find something out.

Although I originally believed in and thought this theory to be
interesting, I've more recently been lead to believe that Maynard wasn't actually talking about elements and whatnot. I think he was trying to hint at the fact that Lateralus, as a whole, must be broken down into parts to be understood. Or maybe that we should be looking for patterns with the way he sings certain things & syllables (example- when the song Lateralus is broken down into how he sings them, it forms a Fibonacci sequence:

black (1)
then (1)
white are (2)
all i see (3)
in my infancy (5)
red and yellow then came to be (8)
reaching out to me (5)
lets me see (3)

[ Also, the way the count goes up and down also suggests a parabola of some kind. ])

Just my thoughts on the subject, sorry if they're a bit unclear.

[GernBlanston]

just in case anyone wants some more symbolisms on chakras in general....

Chakras (http://www.cs.utah.edu/~phister/NlightN/Chakras.html)

[crow011]

there are SO MANY FUCKING VIEWS OF THIS THREAD . . . IT'S NEARLY AT 3,000 . . .

i almost want to TEAR OFF MY FORESKIN IN EXCITEMENT AND PRAISE OF THIS THREAD . . .

seriously, though, this has been one of the most interesting threads i have ever read anywhere on the net . . .

good going, everyone . . .

peace and blessed be . . .

crow011 . . .

[reign3]

Originally posted by GregoryWohlwend
75-52-88-71-16

loosely translated in hebrew from the best thing i could find, don't know how accurate is with the numbers exactly.

la = 75 = eye breath
te = 52 = fish house
ra = 88 = mouth fence
lu = 71 = eye ox
s = 16 = hand hook

lus = 71 + 16 = mouth weapon

see what you can do with this, i just found it.

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/STRINDEX.htm

75 = abac (aw - bas) = a primitive root; to fodder - fatted, stalled
52 = abiyshay (ab-ee-shah'ee) father of a gift, 'generous', abishai = an isrealite
88 = obth = (o - both) = plural of owb, water skins, Oboth, a place in the desert
71 = abanah = (ab-aw-naw) = perhaps feminine of 'eben' with the article inserted; stone of help; eben-ha-ezer, a place in palestine
16 = ebeh (ay-beh) = from 'abah' in the sense of bending toward; the papyrus -- swift.

71+16=87= abram = contracted from 'abiyram', high father; Abram, the original name of Abraham, Abram.

perhaps this can be connected in some way

humble generous Oboth stone of help bend towards??? i dunno, i'm not sure how the grammar works or how such sentences can be flipped around. anyone come up with anything else from this link or data?


i also found a greek one on there, i gathered from it loosely that it went something like this

75 52 88 (71+16)87 'how it appears on the album cover'
Strive towards ignorance permanantly and completely

perhaps leaping towards death in this state, complete ignorance lies in death only or perhaps drugs of some sort... i thought that greek translation was quite interesting


Of all the far out theories so far suggested, I'd say this one has the most credibility. You guys made an admirable attempt with the whole alchemy thing. That took a lot of workand research. But I think you just got off on a tangent that wasn't really worth going out on. But who knows? I could be wrong. Any or all of us could be wrong.

When I see the word "Lateralus" broken into "La Te Ra Lu S" it just reminds me of language. I'm not sure about all the adding of numbers and such though. Remember, somebody came up with the name. Supposing it was Maynard (which it easily could not be), can you imagine him sitting down in front of a computer with a stack of books next to him doing all these crazy calculations? I don't think he or anybody else would put that much work into it. That's why I think that when they got the name, they didn't have to do so much work. Meaning, he didn't go through all of this. It was already together or at least part way. Which means, the answer is out there somewhere and it isn't impossible to find.

All this is assuming that there in fact is some secret message behind Lateralus. They've stated in interviews that it simply means Lateral Thinking. Don't count that out of the picture. I can just imagine the four of them reading all this and just laughing their asses off because they just came up with the word off the top of their heads.

Anything is possible though. I can see "ignorance is bliss" being a theme in the CD. Tool deals so much in human emotions that are difficult to talk about. They dig so far in it can be painful. Perhaps they are saying that you should "strive towards ignorance". I think we're all past that point now, but if we were to strive towards it, we would receive some of the benefits ignorance has to offer. Not all of them, but some.

Anything is possible.

[tainednarf1014]

I never thought when i started this thread that it would come anything near this. I was expecting lots of shit talking and critisism instead you accepted my theory and did everything you could to dig deeper into the intellectual makeup of this album. Im inspired by all of your willingness to figure out this puzzle and I know now who the real tool fans are. You are the people who take the music and look deep within for a higher meaning. Not just listening to the lyrics and nodding your head in a commercialy hip dance movement but looking between the lines trying to find meaning.

Thanks again for all your support on this thread and again I never thought my theory would reach this many minds. Hopefully Maynard's seen this.

[avarice]

75-52-88-71-16

i think these are actually penis measurements of the band members (in inches), except multiplied by ten..
"the one -> the ten"

so 7.1'' would be maynard.. he must've been using a penis extender since salival,
1.6'' would be maynard's cat
but i'm not sure who the other measurements would belong to.. any ideas?

[axe4moe]

Of all the far out theories so far suggested, I'd say this one has the most credibility. You guys made an admirable attempt with the whole alchemy thing. That took a lot of workand research. But I think you just got off on a tangent that wasn't really worth going out on. But who knows? I could be wrong. Any or all of us could be wrong.

The most credibility?
to be honest, i think thats statement is un-creditable in itself.
the fact that he got letters and made words out of hebrew to form and answer, states not at all the it has anything to do with ALL the band members views and beliefs.

anyone can grab a fucking word and translate it back to hebrew, half of our language was derrived from it.

fact is, i gave relation from the album and it's band members to give an answer (which myself and alot of others belive).

you have to remember, tools albums take fucking years to make, and to be honest take even longer to comprehend. the least thing you could do is go back to the source of which the music was made (i'm talking about the band members here) and work out what there inspirations are.

ok, now that i've had my little bitch session, i'm going to read on....

[awwww shoot]

What the fuck is this? They named the CD Lateralus because the basically means lateral thought. The CD is about reaching enlightenment through communication, selflessness, and thinking for yourself. People who look for theories of quantum mechanics in the CD title are just fucking lame. Tool value the meaning of their music too much to determine their CD title based on the periodic table of elements.

[axe4moe]

What the fuck is this? They named the CD Lateralus because the basically means lateral thought. The CD is about reaching enlightenment through communication, selflessness, and thinking for yourself. People who look for theories of quantum mechanics in the CD title are just fucking lame. Tool value the meaning of their music too much to determine their CD title based on the periodic table of elements.

I agree entirely (with the periodic table part). like you said it's just a CD title, but as i've stated (and others have found), thier are links with the SONG lateralus, towards mainly alchemy. as bulletproof stated:

Originally posted by bullet proof
I think you've hit the nail on the head with this one. The words on the diagram (Visita interiora Terrae Rectificando
Invenies Occultum Lapidem) are the same ones that appear on the second page of Danny Carey's website (http://www.dannycarey.org/page2.html).

ITS ON THE FUCKING 2ND PAGE OF THE DAMM DRUMMERS WEBSITE!

if you read the rest of my posts about the connections with alchemy with not only this song and others on the album, i'm sure you should see a different perspective my friend

P.S. note that danny's site WAS made around the same time as lateralus, which is slight proof that because it's most recent with the album it's contents may well be connected.

[RRed]

Yes, I agree completely with you.

Danny Carey's site is chuck full of connections, especially to help understand the meaning behind Lateralus.

RRed

[polarforsker]

Previously someone talked about chakras and their matching colours and planets. Earth, Sun, Mars and Saturn....

I'll try to be as cohesive as i can, i just thought of it, so i may come out a bit confusing...

In the song Lateralus the line "as below so above..." appears.
This line (though slightly changed) also appear in a book by Henry Lincoln (Key To The Sacred Pattern) about the Rennes-le-chateau mystery.
(I don't know much you know about the mystery, but i assume you know the basics)
Henry Lincoln discovers a pentagon in the area of Rennes-le-chateau. The church of Rennes-le-chateau is build in the name of Maria Magdelena. Her symbol was the planet Venus.

Now back to the geometry. Every single planet will in its path at some point reach a position where the Earth the Sun and the planet is on a straight line. Mars, the Sun and Earth does this four times, making a square. Venus however does so five times creating a pentagon....

as above so below, seems to bit the motive of the Rennes-le-chateau pentagon?!

It seems logical to believe that Venus somehow would be a part of this chakra-colour-planet-theory...

well, just a thought....

[LuisCarruthers]

Slightly off topic but not....One thing is obvious to me. It's not the answer that is interesting so much as the path to the answer.


I love finding questions, then you find answers that lead you to more questions.

So, instead of looking for the one answer, just enjoy the journey and see where it can take you. See, that is what I love about Tool. They give me things to think about, as do all of you with your theories on what songs mean. Oh and it is nice to see moe back with more details. I like your train of thought...

[RRed]

[QUOTE=polarforsker]
In the song Lateralus the line "as below so above..." appears.
This line (though slightly changed) also appear in a book by Henry Lincoln (Key To The Sacred Pattern) about the Rennes-le-chateau mystery.
QUOTE]


"As above, so below" is the infamous statement spoken by Hermes Trismegistus, aka Thoth the Egyptian diety, whos is also believed to be the medium and originator of alchemy and majickal tradition. This is also related to the pyramids and their Orion, or which is also know as Osiris, configuration, ie as below so above as in the heavens; micro v macro.

This is also related to the initiation and assumption of the Eye of Horus which is central to Lateralus as a body of work.

63/64 + 1/64= Thank you great god of wisdom.

RRed

[Grudge76]

To anyone who thinks that this is digging too deep, and that Tool has nothing to do with any of this.... i say two things.

1) Is a bad thing to push the envelope on thinking and try to expand our knowledge of this CD? Be it right or wrong, at least we thinking about it... and researching things we otherwise may never do....

2) no one has mentioned the "Elements" T-shirt put out by tool... coincidence? I think not...

Beautiful topic, this is the kind of board that really makes you realize once again, the Tool fan intelligence.

I just dont think this kinda stuff would show up on a Good charlotte board!

[Underalus]

Don't look at stuff that strays too far from the SONG. The song Lateralus is what will give us clues. Look to the fibonacci sequence and the golden spiral and whatnot. Also the number 987 might have some serious involvment in the whole deal. Try and find a relation between 987 and the atomic number of the elements. If i didn't have homework, I'd do it.

[animate]

would it be possible that something tool puts out COULD be taken for face value? you are all reading way too into this! maynard said that this album is all about lateral thinking. PERHAPS, JUST MAYBE, lateralus is just a spin off of the word lateral! i'm not sure, maybe i am just insane and too shallow to see the hidden meaning, but maybe not everything they do is that deep. i'm not saying it is shallow, in no sense is it shallow, but perhaps we should focus on other things than where the title for a song originated. i highly doubt maynard would want people to focus on this.

Don't stop thinking, but don't look too hard for things that will get you nowhere.

[Etamina]

PERHAPS, JUST MAYBE, lateralus is just a spin off of the word lateral!.


yah ok dummy. your such a *** eating jew sloper. Why don't you go and cut off the tail end of a banana feed it to your grandmothers cat, wait till it pukes, scrape it up, mail it to yourself in an old shoebox, and when you open it up you can say, "hey I'm a ***." yah thats what I thought, ***. you pencil-shaved, gascap trodden, overly congugated, appalachian husk farming linear trouble pastry slap off donkey tennis hair stylist lawnmower poolhall inspecter. Thats what I think about you.

Ha, I win.

[axe4moe]

..............why do the best threads attract the most number of retards :(. there must be some mathematical equation for this reoccuring attractiveness to stupidity.....

although Etamina's on the mark, it still doesn't help. It's true howw you say the CD is about lateral thinking, but i belive thats just the tip of the iceburg so to speak.

there's many ways we can interpret it

from our our thoughts
thoughts of A band member
thoughts from all the band members

whether or not maynard said it's about lateral think TO HIM is a different kettle of fish, seeing as there is another 3 band members.

[mr. id]

Saturn then moon are all i see in my infancy.
Mars and Sun then came to be, reaching out to me.
lets me see.

Does anyone know anything about astrology? cause i'm stuck here....

okay, saturn represents base urges and the element of survival, and i've read that saturn represents the base chakra, found at the base of the spine...this basically symbolizes survival. think for a second...it seems that all babies can do is survive. if there was a button that blew up half the earth whenever it were pressed but the infant was fed, it would not have a guilty conscience about it. it would survive, at any cost. the moon is a symbol of things feminine and the subconscious, both things clearly involved intricately with infancy.
mars is the planet of battle, masculinity, et cetera. also power and the realization and understanding of power. this comes after infancy. the sun is solely character. i hope i've helped

[bullet proof]

Someone I know had mentioned, in relation to Lateralus, that the planets had some correlation with certain colors (ROY G BIV). I'm not sure if this has anything at all to do with this hunt , but check out http://srath.com/lesson/creation_1.htm and see if it makes any sense to you. The site discusses the correlation between colors, planets, and chakras.

I'm not sure how far off the mark this is, but remember what color Danny writes in? Purple. He'll only sign things in purple. While he may be doing this just to mess with people, he has said that the purple is the combination of the red blood of Mars with the royal blue of Jupiter).

Digging further, if you read the August 2003 newsletter at toolband.com (http://www.toolband.com/news/letter/), you can find the following snippet of an interview with Danny:

A: You're not reading it right. What you think is an A is actually a P (no doubt scrawled in imperial purple - which combines the blood of Mars with the royal blue of Jupiter). It's PAIMON, the Ninth Spirit of the Order of the Goetia, said to be "a Great King who appears in the form of a man sitting upon a dromedary with a glorious crown upon his head." Paimon can teach all Art and Sciences and other secret things (including, presumably, what's in every American diner's favorite hamburger garish). For those who are interested, Crowley's vellum copy of his and S.L. MacGregor MatherÕs edition of the Book of the Goetia of Solomon the King is decorated with a red pen-and-ink drawing of Crowley "invoking"? the demon Paimon. This has been reproduced in the rare 'First Impressions' facsimile edition published in 1993.

And thus, you have a farfetched connection with the number nine.

[learist]

"
now agin from the emerald tablet
The first signifieth gold, is intentionally YELLOW.
The second for fair WHITE silver.
The third, Mercurius, is likewise grey.
The fourth for tin, is heaven-blue.
The fifth for iron, is blood-RED.
The sixth for copper, is true green.
The seventh for lead, is BLACK as coal.


The Alchemical Prayer:
"Purge the horrible darknesses of our mind, light a light for our senses."

First of all, I think that Tool has done just that.

For those of you still interested in the alchemy thing, as I was perussing throught a book on matter, I noticed a brief history of alchemy. This is what I have found:

1. Alchemists two main goals were to transmute gold from baser metals, and to search for or create the philosipher's stone(granting imortality)

2. The actuall methods used by alchemists were shrouded in secrecy and symbolism, leaving them unintelligible to the uninitiated.

3. Alchemist believed that when a metal is heated and maelted its spirit, symbolized by a white dove, erupts from the chared body. Put into a solution, the blackend metalis symbolized by a toad. The dove going back into the solution heralds the birth of a nobler substance, hopefully gold.

4. the Sun is the symbold for gold
the moon is the symbol for silver

5. In depictions of the proces for creating the philosepher's stone, the substance being manipulated frepuently appeared as a baby in a flask.

Ok, it's a bit random. Do with it what you will, if you do anything with it at all.

JUST SAY KNOW!

[AllforUnity]

Thank you for that...thank you.


As it has been said, anything is possible.

[ndtool]

Don't look at stuff that strays too far from the SONG. The song Lateralus is what will give us clues. Look to the fibonacci sequence and the golden spiral and whatnot. Also the number 987 might have some serious involvment in the whole deal. Try and find a relation between 987 and the atomic number of the elements. If i didn't have homework, I'd do it.

987 is the 16th Fibonachi #. S=16. probably is coincidence.

First time I've seen this thread. Pretty impressive.

[DredhedBuddha]

I do not wish to intrude, but I find this topic very interesting indeed. I was reading this and thinking about it last night when my freind came to the door in a very elaborate LSD thought-trip. We talked about it extensivley, and he came up with a very interesting theory:
"Ya know, Maynard is really intelligent, and alot of the songs are very spiritually and intellectually in-depth." He crossed his arms over his chest, stared hard at the floor, and said "What if Maynard is the next Siddartha?"
Personally, being a believer in the Buddhist way, I actually found this idea very interesting. But it is very difficult to distance the significance of the music, and the fact that it's "just music". Because it's not JUST music to me.

[corps d'allumen]

Of all the far out theories so far suggested, I'd say this one has the most credibility. You guys made an admirable attempt with the whole alchemy thing. That took a lot of workand research. But I think you just got off on a tangent that wasn't really worth going out on. But who knows? I could be wrong. Any or all of us could be wrong.

When I see the word "Lateralus" broken into "La Te Ra Lu S" it just reminds me of language. I'm not sure about all the adding of numbers and such though. Remember, somebody came up with the name. Supposing it was Maynard (which it easily could not be), can you imagine him sitting down in front of a computer with a stack of books next to him doing all these crazy calculations? I don't think he or anybody else would put that much work into it. That's why I think that when they got the name, they didn't have to do so much work. Meaning, he didn't go through all of this. It was already together or at least part way. Which means, the answer is out there somewhere and it isn't impossible to find.

All this is assuming that there in fact is some secret message behind Lateralus. They've stated in interviews that it simply means Lateral Thinking. Don't count that out of the picture. I can just imagine the four of them reading all this and just laughing their asses off because they just came up with the word off the top of their heads.

Anything is possible though. I can see "ignorance is bliss" being a theme in the CD. Tool deals so much in human emotions that are difficult to talk about. They dig so far in it can be painful. Perhaps they are saying that you should "strive towards ignorance". I think we're all past that point now, but if we were to strive towards it, we would receive some of the benefits ignorance has to offer. Not all of them, but some.

Anything is possible.

lateral-us, as in lateral-them. what if they're just saying "we are lateral." that would definitely be a 'lateral' way of saying it... that idea puts a new light on the alternate spelling lateral-is found on earlier copies. food for thought. also, one of, if not the only benefit of ignorance (or maybe just a letting go of the truly extraenous) is that your head doesn't hurt from overthinking about every little nuance... synchronicity is a bitch. if indeed there is some 'secret' hidden message, then it's not to be 'discovered' anyway, for those instructions are for the 'initiates' who know what they're looking for... unless many of you are avid crowley fans/students. anyone ever noticed that all of their "f*ck you" songs have gone in order? jerk-off#5, swampsong#6, hooker..#7, ticks&leeches#8. "suck me dry." i wonder what happens when they hit ten... i've been an 'in-depth' tool fan for many years, digging and digging... and it has personally changed me, although i'm not sure if has been for the better or the worst. why? (as if you might care) i've done the drugs, read the books, listened oh so carefully to every whisper and sigh... why? what's the point? if 'ænima' was a trip (i kind of like the overt lsd insinuation), then lateralus is more like hindsight mixed with realization of consequences in the 'real' world when (conceptual character) was en route. consequences of going too deep in. some things are good (the patience) and some bad (the schisms), but all things are effects of the ænima administered... read too much Jung, do too many hallucinogens, and listen to ænima way too much and closely all at the same time and you might get the same (negative?) side effects with the capacity for future mutation... most all great, modern conceptual artists have had a conceptual character; an entity born in and of their music. it is truly the spawned child of all the band's members, and it is alive. outside sources of art and literature are/can be very useful to understanding how the ideology of each member affects the whole, god knows i've read and used my fair share of homework, but they are by no means definitive of the true voice of the music. it is alive and will speak to you, just listen to hear all you need to hear. the true 'magic' of/in their music is just how very much alive it is, by whatever means...

[GregoryWohlwend]

well said corps d'allumen

I too have come to a similar realization, however it is probably more of a goal than an achievement.

Just to clear a few things up, the translation was in greek, which is the only other language than hebrew TMK that uses a numerical=language translation. The direct translation was "Strive towards ignorance permanantly and completely." IT seemed like this was more than a coincidence to me since it spelled out a fluent sentence as well as an altered cliche. if you read the lyrics with this in mind, especially the song lateralus, you will begin to see the correlation. This bit of knowledge haunts me daily, and i wish to rid myself of it and subsequent information. I've stopped my previous lifestyle and am working to recover, hopefully to become at ease with my self/soul. Each day i struggle with something that syncs up, some sort of sign that things are not as they seem. I do my best to ignore them, hopefully they go away...

[lostintrancendense]

good observation i have to wonder is it broken into 5 at first, then coming together to make one as a reflection on schism the song is about working something out(combining of the 5 elements) plus in the song the 2nd verse says"i know the pieces fit cuz i watched them tumble down no fault,none to blame it doesn't mean i don't desire to point the finger,blame the other,watch the temple topple over.to bring the pieces back together,rediscover communication.."could the division of the 5 elemental parts that we first see,get slowly rebuilt as the disc goes through? schism just happens to fall in the middle of the song listing almost as an unconcious attempt to reassure the listener that what might not be of a palatable nature at first will unify and make it more accesible to the newcomer or the strictly radio/MTV consumer not as privvy as the ones who are in the know. theres much more to this equation than is clear to the above average try as a deconstruction of it all..........
drop acid, and then bush

[radmanics]

This thred is amazing; I have learnt a lot and found some new interests. I am thrilled by what people have found from just 9 letters.

I have thought about the link between the title of the album/song and the song itself in relation to this thred, and have come up with the following:
This song is not about finding the ideals of a philosopher (the stone etc), it is more a warning of what trying to do so, might do to you:
"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines."

This song could also be a reference to what the band feels the priest's deadbed confession was? It seems implied that the priest has found out the philosophers' secret (or at lest that is what I have infered).

It could also be a warning from maynard or other members, that trying to find the alchemist's goals is >not< possible, "Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind".

Reading through the ideas of Hermes from the Tablet, though I might be wrong, the process sounds what Jesus has done. He came down from heaven, died, went from earth (though not to heaven straight away), came back and then assended.

I have to say though, your knowledge of Necular Decay is laughable comapred to the other information you have come up with.

In a neuclar weapon, Hydrogen was used, ionised, as the nuetron to split the Plutonium atom, which then spends out more nuetrons and 3 types of radiation: Alpha, Beta and Gama. Alpha is, I think, the proton and is the heaviest and slowest radioactive partical. Beta is the electron, the lightest partical and quickest partical. Gama is an electromagnetic wave, which is the fastest radiation, and has no weight due to being a wave not a partical.

Also, has anyone noticed the number of repeated lines?...
I embrace my desire to
I embrace my desire to
feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow
to feel inspired to fathom the power, to witness the beauty,
to bathe in the fountain,
to swing on the spiral
to swing on the spiral
to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human.

With my feet upon the ground I move myeslf between the sounds and open wide to suck it in.
I feel it move across my skin.
I'm reaching up and reaching out. I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.
Spiral out. Keep going.
Spiral out. Keep going.
Spiral out. Keep going.
Spiral out. Keep going.
Spiral out. Keep going.

It would be 9, if it were not for the line in italics... (it only being a repeating end of a line, not a whole line)... and as it says, the constant use of the number 9, not 7 as you would imagine with the alchemy etc.

I think that's everything I wanted to say... again, well done in continuing to think this far, I am very impressed.

And of course, if lateralus is only thinking about thinking literally, we've all thought quite literally for the meanings of such relationships, particularly, the 46 & 2 reference impressed me.

[corps d'allumen]

for very thorough and literate information regarding: Sauniere & the parchments & Rennes; the secret (pythagorean) geometry contained within the parchments, as well as, in paintings by Teniers and Poussin (to name a couple) and a few relevant headstones; how this geometry pertains to the geographics of the area, the placement of churches and 'markers', and some important dates of 'things'; plus lots more too long to get into here, read
'The Tomb of God' by Andrew Richards. this is the most in-depth book on the subject i've read to date. very informative.

jesus Felt unconditional love; he didn't carry an over-analysed equasion of it in his pocket, he carried it in his heart. moreover, it was infused with the very fibers of his being. the definition of 'christ-consciousness', 46&2, is an infusion of unconditional love into your being.

gamma rays are a form of electromagnetic radiation, just as ALL LIGHT is electromagnetic radiation, just of different wavelengths. gamma rays have the shortest wavelengths. also, it was a. einstein who concluded that light is a particle that behaves like a wave, as well as being a wave that behaves like a particle. a paradox? a positron, produced in thermonuclear fusion, is an electron with a positive charge... the perils of physics.

[bullet proof]

Just to clear a few things up, the translation was in greek, which is the only other language than hebrew TMK that uses a numerical=language translation. The direct translation was "Strive towards ignorance permanantly and completely."

Okay, you've confused me a bit here. From what I understand, you took the atomic numbers from the elements La, Te, Ra, Lu, and S (57, 52, 88, 71, and 16 respectively) and used those numbers to decipher a message inscribed with Greek numerology. However, when I cross referenced with the link you provided (http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/STRINDEX.htm) I wasn't able to find the same message that you did.

57 (La) - (unknown)
52 (Te) - Ignorance
88 (Ra) - Permanent; without ceasing
71 (Lu) - properly, to lead; by implication, to bring, drive, (reflexively) go, (specially) pass (time), or (figuratively) induce:--be, bring (forth), carry, (let) go, keep, lead away, be open.
16 (S) - well-doing


I'm not sure if this is worthwhile, but I did some reading into about the aforementioned elements (I even added in Li, on the off chance that the Lateralis mistake wasn't a mistake after all)and found some parallels between the words they are derived from and alchemy:

Visita -- Visit
Interiora -- the interior
Terrae -- of the earth;
Rectificando -- in rectifying,
Invenies -- discover
Occultum -- the hidden
Lapidem -- stone.

La -- From the Greek word "lanthanein" meaning "to lie hidden"
Te -- From the Latin word "tellus" meaning "earth"
Ra -- From the Latin word "radius" meaning "ray"
Lu -- From the Greek word "Lutetia" meaning "Paris"
S -- From the Sanskrit word "sulvere" meaning "sulphur"; also from the Latin word "sulphurium" meaning "sulphur"

Li -- From the Greek word "lithos" meaning "stone", apparently because it was discovered from a mineral source whereas the other two common Group 1 elements, sodium and potassium, were discovered from plant sources.

[MclT]

lol....this is pretty funny if you think about...all us tool fans trying to find some secret hidden message or chemical or something from our interpretation of the word "Lateralus". Not that i think this is stupid...I often like to analyse things to try and find coincidental connections...but honestly....do you really think that they would research on chemical compounds and Latin meanings and connect all these possible interpretations of the word with the lyrics in their songs and make hidden instructions on how to find out what it means just for an album? I mean we're not looking for the holy grail here.

[The Grudge]

This is an amazing fucking thread...Great job...but I dont think it has anything to do with what Tool intended, it was fun to read though and I learned alot...

Push the envelope. Watch it bend.

[radmanics]

lol....this is pretty funny if you think about...all us tool fans trying to find some secret hidden message or chemical or something from our interpretation of the word "Lateralus". Not that i think this is stupid...I often like to analyse things to try and find coincidental connections...but honestly....do you really think that they would research on chemical compounds and Latin meanings and connect all these possible interpretations of the word with the lyrics in their songs and make hidden instructions on how to find out what it means just for an album? I mean we're not looking for the holy grail here.

It's not taken us very long, and they take several years to make an album... besides, knowledge = power and power currupts... sort of backs up my earlier idea of the song being more of a warning ;)

[m4yn4rd]

Also, has anyone noticed the number of repeated lines?...


yes, that has to do with the fibinucci(sp?) sequence...


lol....this is pretty funny if you think about...all us tool fans trying to find some secret hidden message or chemical or something from our interpretation of the word "Lateralus". Not that i think this is stupid...I often like to analyse things to try and find coincidental connections...but honestly....do you really think that they would research on chemical compounds and Latin meanings and connect all these possible interpretations of the word with the lyrics in their songs and make hidden instructions on how to find out what it means just for an album? I mean we're not looking for the holy grail here.

Tool puts deep thought into everything they do, no one ever said it was a secret message, its just there, Im sure maynard isnt sitting ont the edge of his seat waiting for us to descover this, because he'd be sitting waiting for us to discover something about everything they've done... it got thought, believe me

[dueler25]

Remember something important...

La, Te, Ra and Lu are all metals. Although they react to a certain extent with each other, the only element that would cause a major change with any of them would be Sulfur, in that it isn't a metal.

Mabe you should look into something like how Sulfur reacts with each of the metals. You might get more compelling or productive results.

Maybe a thought like this was already posted but since we have 4 elements that are all metals and then 1 that makes each one radically different, the 4 elements could be in reference to each of the 4 members of Tool and then sulfur represents a driving force or something.

Please elaborate.

[dueler25]

987 is the 16th Fibonachi #. S=16. probably is coincidence.

First time I've seen this thread. Pretty impressive.

good idea about the fibonacci being #16 for 987.
sulfur.

[Corpus Christi]

Just curious why there are several references to the Jewish Kabbalah but none to the English. The 26 letters in the English Alphabet (the language Tool uses lyrically) changes numerical meanings significantly I think. A more personal note: Maynard does not know all, I do not think the purpose of the album is to educate in alchemy/astrology/qabala beliefs but perhaps to just reflect the discoveries of the band's own person journey. I think if we look at our own discoveries more as a tentative finding rather than a breach of some ornate code Tool expects us to decipher, our findings may seem more valid. I LOVE this thread.

[GregoryWohlwend]

75 52 88 (71+16)87 'how it appears on the album cover'
Strive towards ignorance permanantly and completely

i guess i messed up, i switched the 7 and the 5 around, which makes me even more curious. my life seems to be telling me something, something i don't like, nor want to hear.

[Metamorphosis]

this thread has amazed me... i dont know much on alchemy so i think i might contribute by agreeing with you guys that; by listening to tool, and doing extensive philosophical research, i have become, simply to say, very depressed... but i crave for knowledge, and the more i learn about the reality we live in, the more depressed i get... its as though learning the truth has a penalty... or maybe its because the truth hurts...

i find it relevant to say- "somethnig kinda sad about the way that things have come to be" because this is exactly how i feel... everything seems so different now, its like i am waking up from this dream, from the material world, and gradually becoming more spiritually aware... its a pain because i can feel myself disconnecting from society.

so, i guess what i have to say, is a confirmation for all those who understand what i mean, and also a warning for those who aren't sure what they are getting into... its simple, if you want to live a "regular" life (and im not one for sterio typing) then do "regular" things, in other words, dont take interest in philosophy (coming back to that ignorance theme) because it will sweep you off your feet... but its too late for me to turn back now, i have learnt too much...

[hailthemaggots]

I gotta sat this thread is fucking awesome. Never thought of this at all...I must say after readin everyone's posts, that i think it has something to do with the track grouping...Disp/Refl/Tri with Lus. How, I have no idea.....Maynard however....He continues to say we should explore our ideas, I reckon he's lying and guiding us away from his definative reasoning...I mean he must have a view on why he chooses the name, he just chooses not to tell us....

[radmanics]

just remembered... adding rabidium to water makes a decent explosion.

[clown137]

I dont no if someone already said this because i really dont want to or have the time to waste reading 4 straight pages of this but i rember reading some and alot of people saying La-Te-Ra-Lu-S (as materials on the peridodic table of elements), when put togethor, cannot equal anything. I think thats the biggest clue. the album has lyrics refering to the quabala, astorlogy, and spirituality. when you put these two facts togethor, this is what you get. La-Te-Ra-Lu-S (reffering to the album name and elements togethor) can not equal anything, HERE in the physical world, the world that you and I are apart of at this moment. We must reach a higher level, reach a higher plain, to fully understand this combonation. As the human body has the copasaty to do so. Being caught up in this material world and being caught up in this technilogical age, we completely forgot about what WE as humans can do with are body minds and soul. Without the help of computers. To try and open your third eye and be completly indepenent you must look at both worlds physical and spiritual. All of this is subject to Maynards lyrics in the album. Maybe im just talking a whole lot of meaningless bs but im not trying to. So think about it.

(pardon the spelling)

[Metamorphosis]

wow man, thats really enlightening, and whether the album is actually about that or not you still make a lot of sense. good work. its also good to see a post supporting my ideas of the spiritual and material world.

[_La_te_ra_lus_]

This is the most interesting thread I have seen on here, and I like the direction it's taking us. I was very interested in the alchemy theory-that the elements La Te Ra Lu and S could create gold- but I think the answer to Lateralus is in the seven Chakras. Lateralus has seven real songs, if you count parabol(a) as one song, and disp/refl/triad as one song. There are also seven chakras in the human body. My theory is that each song is about a chakra.

The Grudge-Chakra 1
Earth, Physical identity, oriented to self-preservation
Located at the base of the spine, this chakra forms our foundation. It represents the element earth, and is therefore related to our survival instincts, and to our sense of grounding and connection to our bodies and the physical plane. Ideally this chakra brings us health, prosperity, security, and dynamic presence.
This song is about our survival-calculate what we will and will not tolerate. Desperate to control all and everything.

The Patient-2
Water, Emotional identity, oriented to self-gratification
The second chakra, located in the abdomen, lower back, and sexual organs, is related to the element water, and to emotions and sexuality. It connects us to others through feeling, desire, sensation, and movement. Ideally this chakra brings us fluidity and grace, depth of feeling, sexual fulfillment, and the ability to accept change.
In this song, the person is patient in accepting change.

Schism-3
Fire, Ego identity, oriented to self-definition
This chakra is known as the power chakra, located in the solar plexus. It rules our personal power, will, and autonomy, as well as our metabolism. When healthy, this chakra brings us energy, effectiveness, spontaneity, and non-dominating power.
I think the video explains this one.

Parabola-4
Air, Social identity, oriented to self-acceptance
This chakra is called the heart chakra and is the middle chakra in a system of seven. It is related to love and is the integrator of opposites in the psyche: mind and body, male and female, persona and shadow, ego and unity. A healthy fourth chakra allows us to love deeply, feel compassion, have a deep sense of peace and centeredness.
This song is all about celebrating being alive and finally discovering that we are two parts-body and mind.

Ticks and Leeches-5
Sound, Creative identity, oriented to self-expression
This is the chakra located in the throat and is thus related to communication and creativity. Here we experience the world symbolically through vibration, such as the vibration of sound representing language.
The person is expressing himself for the first time now that he knows he is not alone.

Lateralus-6
Light, Archetypal identity, oriented to self-reflection
This chakra is known as the brow chakra or third eye center. It is related to the act of seeing, both physically and intuitively. As such it opens our psychic faculties and our understanding of archetypal levels. When healthy it allows us to see clearly, in effect, letting us "see the big picture."
"Over-thinking over-analysing seperates the body from the mind. Withering my intuition missing opportunities and I must feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines"

Resolution(Disp/Refl/Triad)-7
Thought, Universal identity, oriented to self-knowledge
This is the crown chakra that relates to consciousness as pure awareness. It is our connection to the greater world beyond, to a timeless, spaceless place of all-knowing. When developed, this chakra brings us knowledge, wisdom, understanding, spiritual connection, and bliss.
"And you will come to find that we are all one mind
Capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable.
Just let the light touch you
And let the words spill through
And let them pass right through
Bringing out our hope and reason ..."

I don't know if any of this is right, someone else let me know what they think.

Chakra information from http://www.sacredcenters.com/chakras.html

[radmanics]

just remembered... adding rabidium to water makes a decent explosion.
sorry wrong element :p that's rubidasomething. lol...

Tool seem to relate a lot of their songs to the chakras; do you think they work?

The hardest thing with analysing lateralus, for me, is defining whether the "over thinking" is a warning or a sort of instruction, as in "think, concentrate what you would see as too much", but the words "withering, my intuition" seem wrong for something you would do purposly.

[Katabasis]

First up, this is a really interesting thread, and everyone has come up with some damn good theories and put a lot of effort into research. OK, so I'm new to board; but basically I'm into the occult, so I'm fairly fluent in Crowleyana, etc, and kind of specialise in Alchemy, the Kaballah, Gematria, Demonology, etc.
Anyway, enough with the introductions, lets get down to business.

OK, for all those who are interested, here is some new info + a re-cap on ALCHEMY.

The transmutation of base metal in to gold (via the use of the 'Philosopher's Stone').

*nods*

That is what alchemy is. That is pretty much it. Now, how you choose to interpret that, however, is up to you. There are basically three levels of interpretation, here's a rundown on them:

Puffers: A puffer is pretty much someone who is into Alchemy to turn some garden variety lead into gold, and then sell this gold for big bucks. They're basically materialistic.

Advanced Puffers: OK, these guys are after the Philosopher's Stone not just to turn metal into gold, but to turn themselves from mortal into immortal (eg: Comte St. Germain).

Transcendentalists: If Tool are, indeed, alchemists, I would think they are of this variety. 'Lead' is basically a metaphor for the primal self, the base material that we are all born into. Through the use of the Philospher's Stone/Path of Alchemy/The Enlightened Path/Whatever You Choose To Call It, one turns their 'leaden' self into 'gold': a transcendant form.

Point of fact: the transcendent individual has to become basically hermaphrodite (according to some views); that is, they have to fully accept and integrate their female aspect into themselves (ie: integrate their ANIMA into themselves [from the male perspective], or the ANIMUS into themselves [female perspective].

(more in next post - I'll try and break up the subjects into separate posts)

[Katabasis]

Also, here's some info on the other subjects that have popped up (my two cents worth anyways):

Hermes Trismegistus: OK, this guy is credited as the founder of alchemy (whether he really existed or not is up for debate), and he supposedly carried around with him an emerald tablet/table/stone (the 'Tabula Smaragdina') which had this written on it (this translation is from the appendices in the back of Agrippa's 'Three Books of Occult Philosophy'):

"It is true, without falsehood, and most certain.

What is below is like that which is above; and what is above is like that which is below: to accomplish the miracle of the one thing.

As all things were formed from one, by the thought of one, so all things are born from this one thing, by choice.

Its father is the Sun, its mother the Moon, the Wind carries it in it's belly, its nurse is the Earth.

It is the author of all perfection throughout the world.

The power is strong when changed into Earth.

Separate the Earth from the Fire, the subtle from the gross, gently and with care.

Ascend from Earth to Heaven, and descend again to Earth, to unite the power of higher and lower things; thus you will obtain the glory of the whole World, and the shadows will leave you.

This has more strength than strength itself, for it overcomes all subtle things and penetrates every solid.

Thus the world was framed.

Hence proceed wonders, which means are here.

Therefore I am Hermes Trismegistus, having the three parts of world philosophy.

That which I had to say of the operation of the Sun is perfected."

OK, so that's the Emerald Tablet (I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with it, sorry to bore you if you already knew it). Yeah, so that's why alchemist's often refer to themselves as the 'Sons of Hermes', after the semi-mythical figure Hermes Trismegistus.

[Katabasis]

Random add ons (sorry about these damn lengthy posts) :)

*The Emerald Tablet has thirteen sentences (an important numer in Occult circles - it's also theorised that there were originally thirteen months [lunar calendar], with Arachne being the thirteenth star sign). Lateralus has thirteen songs (not to mention the Thirteenth Step).

*Alchemy (as I said before) involves incorporation of the Anima into the self ---> Tool's album before Lateralus.

*Sulfur is vital to alchemy: it forms a triad with mercury and salt. It begins with sulfur (active, masculine, solar, fire, the individual soul) and mercury (passive, feminine, lunar, water, the life force/soul in all things) [kind of like Yin and Yang]. Salt is the 'offspring' of these two, (it represents the body, the precipitate: it kind of balances the first two).

*lead is the metal that is attributed to the planet Saturn. It is the first step in the alchemical process.

*Most, if not all alchemy is symbolic. So if anything you read doesn't seem chemically accurate (in fact, you'll be lucky to find much chemically accurate info in alchemy, period), then that doesn't discredit the entire system of thought/belief. It is all symbolism. All metaphors.

*I know a lot of this is probably coincidental....but still, it makes you think

[clown137]

wow i like the charka post. good work man

[m4yn4rd]

For the people who don't wanna read this EXCESSIVE amount of information, can someone sum up what we've found(or not found)?

[Shitonme]

I must say, this is by far the most interesting post i have seen on this site. Maybe we are digging our noses too far, and into irrelovent information, but the point is, we're digging, always a good thing. I noticed no one has brought up the matter of charges, upper right hand corner for each element on the Periodic table, if im not mistaken. I think I will check that out, see if it comes out to be balanced or not.

On the matter of alchemy, i think we should take a metaphorical stand on this. Allthough it may be far-fetched, or, i hate to use the word, impossible, to creat the element of gold, i think the idea is turning what little we have, or are given, into something valuable, or precious. Possibly turning what ever pain we have experienced into learning, this is what i always think of whenever an alchemy reference is made, as i beleive the threory was dissproved. Anyways... Im going to stare at the periodic table for hours now, keep going guys! Im enjoying the read. I hope we get somewhere with this, it feels like an adventure.

-tim

PS: id ask my chemistry teacher.... but she is quite dumb

[umbilicalchemist]

I would imagine as with many other alchemical thoughts that this is a metiphor for spiritual growth. If we look at the idea that Sulphur is needed for life then we can call it life for this thought experiment.

So we have all these inert metals that in and of themselves are very complex yet are inactive until the element of life is thrown into the mix. Which element was it ...Lanthanum...reacts directly with sulpur...perhaps it is some sort of liason between life and this other quality that the elements possess.

I would tend to think less of the actual 'true' chemical process occuring and more towards the symbolism of numbers and the nature of the word lateralus itself. Lateral to the side and us of course being US (u and me) we are besides ourselves giving an objective vision...both within and without if indeed all are one.

75-52-88-71-16 ....I'd check into the numbers themselves and what they coorespond to. I know the number 16 COULD be the 16th path of the septhiroth or key 16 "The tower". But I dont know enough about that to really help out that much. But I would focus on the numerology and the latin roots of the elements to look for meaning and clues.


actually you get it all wrong !!!

it's 57-52-88-71-16 because Lanthanium atomic number is 57!

[radmanics]

For the people who don't wanna read this EXCESSIVE amount of information, can someone sum up what we've found(or not found)?
A lot about the chemical properties of the elements who have the same symbol as
La
Te
Ra
Lu
S
(nothing exactly useful)
Alchemy (see 2 posts above by Katabasis)

And... yeah, about that lol. Some stuff about the fibronic sequence... I read this ages ago and it took me two nights. lol. I forgot stuff ;[

Oh, there was something about radiation too (basic highschool stuff)

It is possible to create gold, by removing electrons/protons/nutrons from another element further along the table, however it ends up rather radioactive. i.e. useless.

[layersbeyondimagination]

this mite be farfetched but could lateralus have relation to latera recta in math?

in an ellipse, there are 2 foci. if you make lines go through the foci that are parallel to the minor axis (perp. to major axis) you get the latera recta.

http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/docs/reference/CRC-formulas/node27.html
go there for a more indepth look at it..

im not sure yet on how this may relate to lateralus but jsut the fact that latera is a part of it is quite interesting. put in your thoughts and maybe how it connects with the music/lyrics

[layersbeyondimagination]

this mite be farfetched but could lateralus have relation to latera recta in math?

in an ellipse, there are 2 foci. if you make lines go through the foci that are parallel to the minor axis (perp. to major axis) you get the latera recta.

http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/docs/reference/CRC-formulas/node27.html
go there for a more indepth look at it..

im not sure yet on how this may relate to lateralus but jsut the fact that latera is a part of it is quite interesting. put in your thoughts and maybe how it connects with the music/lyrics

could it have to do with saturn's orbit? i think planets have elliptical orbits and if they truly are, what lies on the latera recta? i did like 10 mins of research due to limited time and oculdnt find anything really. can someone find out?

[radmanics]

No idea what you're talking about, but planets do indeeed have ellipitical orbits.

[Odibilëph]

could it be a coincidence that they all weigh 298 k when solid?
Kalvins... yeah, temperature, ...as above stated.

Some stuff about the fibronic sequence...
Fibonacci.

[_La_te_ra_lus_]

I don't want this thread to die. It's too damn good.

[polarforsker]

lol....this is pretty funny if you think about...all us tool fans trying to find some secret hidden message or chemical or something from our interpretation of the word "Lateralus". Not that i think this is stupid...I often like to analyse things to try and find coincidental connections...but honestly....do you really think that they would research on chemical compounds and Latin meanings and connect all these possible interpretations of the word with the lyrics in their songs and make hidden instructions on how to find out what it means just for an album? I mean we're not looking for the holy grail here.


No, we are obviously not looking for the holy grail. I often wonder why people post stuff like this? Does it matter to you if the references are put on the album on purpose or if it is merely a series of coincidential patterns? I don't believe anyone posting in here is searching for any grail or the so called meaning of life?! Basicly we are just following what to us seem like interesting and fascinating clues to learn and expand our knowledge. If you do not wish to participate, then don't. No one is forcing you, really... and im sure we won't miss you. Take care, have fun.. bye!

[RRed]

Just thought maybe a few of you may be intersted in this... I entered the word 'lateralus' and broke it up like you guys did as la te ra lu s and entered each into a Hebrew Gematria 'calculator'.. it was intersting what it generated

La=31.... Kether of Briah, or 'And there was'

Ta=9..... Most luminous

Ra=201... Light

Lu=30..... It will be

S........... Use of Aiswass

Pretty intersting because 31 represents Kether in Briah... which corresponds to the 'world of creation' as well as to the Angel Metatron... the 'Bright Angel' corresponding to the colour of 'while briliance'.. in conjunction with 9 and 201 it makes you wonder... not only that but all the many references to Thelema and ushering in of the Eon of Horus.. may explain... 60... The use of Aiswass... Liber Al....

RRed

[ChaoticSyns]

Okay, first post

After hammering my way throught 4 pages and some pretty lengthy posts I have become quite interested.

First I would like to point out that Lateralus is spelled

l-a t-e r-a l-u-s

The lus are connected, but at 2 different levels

l-u and then the u-s are connected at a lower level

That made me think there might be something else you haven't looked into.
There is however no element "us" but there is "u" uranium, another radioactive element. So what about "us". Uranium Sulfate perhaps.

After a few google serches I came across the following.

http://www.members.home.net/saturation70/462.html

The first said something about seperating plutonium.



US 2,852,336 (Peroxide Process for Separation of Radioactive Materials) G.T. Seaborg, I. Perlman; Sep 16, 1958.

A method is described of separating plutonium, in the reduced state, from hexavalent uranium. It consists in treating an aqueous solution containing such uranium and plutonium ions with sulfate ions in order to form a soluble uranium sulfate complex and then treating the solution with a soluble thorium compound and a soluble peroxide compound in order to form a thorium peroxide carrier precipitate which carries down with it the plutonium peroxide present. During this treatment the pH of the solution must be maintained between 2 and 3.



A second search took me to a glossary.

http://webserver.lemoyne.edu/faculty/giunta/archems.html

Near the bottom is uranium which is what I was looking for but fortunatually I kept on scrolling and noticed something else.

vitriol: a sulfate, especially iron sulfate; see copperas.

uranvitriol: a uranium sulfate


I saw that word "vitriol" and knew I saw it somewhere else on this board.


V isita "Visit"
I nteriora the "interior"
T errae "of the earth;"
R ectificando "in rectifying,"
I nvenies "discover"
O ccultum "the hidden"
L apidem "stone."



Now, is there a connection, I don't know at this point but at least I shared my findings.

[RRed]

Just thought maybe a few of you may be intersted in this... I entered the word 'lateralus' and broke it up like you guys did as la te ra lu s and entered each into a Hebrew Gematria 'calculator'.. it was intersting what it generated

La=31.... Kether of Briah, or 'And there was'

Ta=9..... Most luminous

Ra=201... Light

Lu=30..... It will be

S........... Use of Aiswass

Pretty intersting because 31 represents Kether in Briah... which corresponds to the 'world of creation' as well as to the Angel Metatron... the 'Bright Angel' corresponding to the colour of 'while briliance'.. in conjunction with 9 and 201 it makes you wonder... not only that but all the many references to Thelema and ushering in of the Eon of Horus.. may explain... 60... The use of Aiswass... Liber Al....

RRed


Sorry.... the Ta was a mispelling but Te is equivelant to 9..

[Theodagoth]

I did some research into this very interesting matter last night. Here's what i found out.


1. LA
Lanthanum - based on Greek 'lanthanein' - 'to escape notice' (due to it being undetected in cerium oxide)
Proton Number - 57
Relative Atomic Mass - 139
(Inner transition metal - Lanthanide Series)


2. TE
Tellurium - based on Latin 'tellus -uris' - 'earth'
Proton Number - 52
Relative Atomic Mass - 128
(Non-metal - Group 6)


3. RA
Radium - based on Latin 'radius' - 'ray'
Proton Number - 88
Relative Atomic Mass - 226
(Alkali metal - Group 2)


4. LU
Lutetium (Lutecium) - based on Latin 'Lutetia' - ancient name of Paris, France, home of it's original discoverer.
Proton Number - 71
Relative Atomic Mass - 175
(Inner transition metal - Lanthanide Series)


5. S
Sulphur (US: Sulfur) - based on Latin 'sulfur; sulp(h)ur'
Proton Number - 16
Relative Atomic Mass - 32
(Non-metal - Group 6)


While looking through the dictionary I found some other interesting pieces of information. 'LA' or 'LAH' is the 6th note of a major scale and the note A in a fixed-doh system. 'TE' or 'TI' is the 7th note of a major scale and the note B in a fixed-doh system. I was unable to find this musical system with the other letters of Lateralus, though I believe the 3rd one is 'RE.'


And yes, I do have to much time on my hands.

ya you do, but way to use your ability to research and your brain. good job :)

[Theodagoth]

ok, i think you guys killed it. It's a nice concept but obviously if it takes 30 people to come up with such an abstract though i doubt one man can do it, especially in only a 3 year period. Hell, you can send all this to Maynard and show him the dedication you have to find the meanings of his songs. have fun, i think you all got it under control so I wont bother getting into it.

[1256]

it was before noted that of the last three letters, they are connected with dashes on different levels

could this symbolize different types of bonds, ionic and covalent?

IMPORTANT- dissectional.com abstract artwork may show the location of this french alchemical place which you were speaking of on one of the many pages
I think i saw it on the french church pentagram, but it may have been somewhere else

[1256]

You are all right.
Rennes-le-chateu(?) is cool. And Lateralus clearly has en alchemist meanig to it.
And it has something to do in connection with the templars stuff.


the french church pentagram mystery is related to this puzzle, there is a picture of it on dissectional. as to the templars, their history is connected with the pentagram as well. http://www.templarhistory.com/pentagram.html

as another possibility, what if the entire solution to the words Lateralus were in fact the VITRIOL acronym which we already discovered?

also, maybe we are looking at the mentions of the planets the wrong way. we are referring to them as chemicals, maybe they should be thought of in the sense of roman mythology, in which saturn is the equivalent of the greek god cronus. satrun ascends could refer to his becoming the ruler of all, or to his purported coming to earth after he was dethroned by jupiter (in greek, zeus) where he came to italy

in GREEK (different from the roman saturn story) mythology, cronus defeated his father uranus and ascended to become ruler of the heavens

[1256]

we have been assuming that this hidden message is a work of maynard
however, many of the clues (such as the words to the VITRIOL acronym appearing on danny's website) relate to danny carey instead

i think that danny is really behind this

http://www.toolband.com/identity/index.html
on danny's bio, it lists him observing his father preforming a masonic ritual. later it refers to the temple of solomon. how are these related? the modern-day knights templar are part of the masonic order. the ancient knights templar could be related to the rennes-de-chateau mystery. also, the geometry of the temple of solomon could be important to other things. the ancient knights templar had many strange beliefs about the temple of solomon. the five pointed star, when right side up, was a symbol of the knights templar (see http://www.templarhistory.com/pentagram.html) as opposed to an upside down "evil" one. this could relate to the french church mystery (see dissectional.com) modern day knights templar as part of the masonic lodge are found at http://www.knightstemplar.org/purpose.html

[1256]

to see rennes-le-chateau and its location in the french church pentagram , take the following steps

1. go to dissectional.com

2. enter the site repeatedly until you see the screen with the rotating shapes

3. CLICK ON THE STAR

4. rennes-le-chateau is the middle-left point of the star

clicking on rennes-le-chateau will bring up a story about the church and the philosopher's stone!!!!!!!!

the picture at the bottom of the story...
and who is standing at the tomb but danny carey, in front of "the skull-and-crossbones, a templar motif"

it appears that behind danny there is a figure identical to the anima cover...

[1256]

chakra five appears after leaving the rennes-le-chateau site on dissectional, then four, and then one that i believe to be a pentagram...

[1256]

I HAVE DELETED THIS POST BECAUSE OF NEW EVIDENCE I WAS SHOWN THAT NEGATED THE THEORY ON THIS POST ABOUT THE RELATION BETWEEN THE ARTWORK AND THE TITLE

[1256]

the emerald tablet had been previously mentioned, in relation to alchemy and the elixir of life

the emerald tablet had been supposedly written by thoth, an ancient egyptian god

the emerald tablet supposedly contains the recipe for the elixir of life

THE EMERALD TABLET BEGINS WITH THE WORDS "AS BELOW SO ABOVE..."

in danny carey's bio on toolband.com thoth is mentioned

danny has placed evidence on toolband and dissectional that the ancient egyptain secrets to egyptian embalming fluids, and perhaps the elixir of life, were in the rennes-le-chateau church

DANNY CAREY BELIEVES THAT THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR FOUND THE EMERALD TABLET, BROUGHT IT BACK WITH THEM, AND HID IT IN THE RENNES-LE-CHATEAU CHURCH and he used words from the tablet in the song Lateralus

[RRed]

the emerald tablet had been previously mentioned, in relation to alchemy and the elixir of life

the emerald tablet had been supposedly written by thoth, an ancient egyptian god

the emerald tablet supposedly contains the recipe for the elixir of life

THE EMERALD TABLET BEGINS WITH THE WORDS "AS BELOW SO ABOVE..."

in danny carey's bio on toolband.com thoth is mentioned

danny has placed evidence on toolband and dissectional that the ancient egyptain secrets to egyptian embalming fluids, and perhaps the elixir of life, were in the rennes-le-chateau church

DANNY CAREY BELIEVES THAT THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR FOUND THE EMERALD TABLET, BROUGHT IT BACK WITH THEM, AND HID IT IN THE RENNES-LE-CHATEAU CHURCH and he used words from the tablet in the song Lateralus

Not a bad idea... but please elaborate... as far as evidence is concerned.. how are you certain of this?

RRed

[Mehhico]

I can come up with words like "as below, so above" just by using AutoCAD.. it's called the scale function.

Wow, a fellow CAD man. How do you do?

[hi8is]

forget what post i saw this under... but last night, i saw that someone on a APC fourm had said that...

La = to lie benieth

Te= hidden

Ra= Rays

Lu= paris

S= fire or hell

hidden benieth the rays of paris is fire

hidden benieth the rays of paris is hell

dont know about the numbers or any of this alchamy in relation to these chemicals... but it would be fun to look at any who.
\
spiral out
keep goin
peace
t

[hi8is]

" Heres an interesting post I found on the thirteenthstep.net message board.

la te ra lus


Take the made up word "Lateralus" Notice how the letters are seperated into groups of two? The last letter S is tacked onto the previous group

Each group relates to a chemical symbol
----------------------------------------------
LA: Lanthanum
TE: Tellurium
RA: Radium
LU: Lutetium
S(last single letter): Sulfur

Greek & Latin Meaning
--------------------------
Lanthanum: From the Greek word lanthaneis (to lie hidden)
Tellurium: From the Greek word tellus (Earth or Beneath)
Radium: From the Latin word radius (light ray)
Lutetium: From "Lutetia", the ancient Latin name for Paris(often called the "city of lights")
Sulfur: From the Latin word sulfur (hellfire or brimstone)

After conjugating the verbs and whatnot:
"Lying hidden beneath the light of Paris is hellfire."

Given Tool's obsessive interest in the occult aspects of "Rennes-le-Château" and it's connection to the ancient Paris meridian, I think it's fair to say the album title is significant..."

[hi8is]

heh, didnt notice you all had already summed this up =)

[Sic Aenima]

cool theory man!

[Theodagoth]

it seems you all have a lot of time on your hands, and researching is top notch. way to go. you solved the lateralus mystery, now its time to solve where the other sock goes when i stick it in the dirty clothes hamper ;)

[1256]

http://www.alchemylab.com/emerald_tablet.htm

this site is an english translation of the emerald tablet
notice also the mention of thoth on danny's bio

if you want to help me find evidence to support the theory please post any information you can on the "Prieure du Notre Dame du Sion"
the best i can find is in a history of rennes-le-chateau that is obviously false and exaggerated

also i believe that this name has more than one layer of meaning. the elements have already been analyzed to death on the other four pages of this message thread. as long as we're revisiting the topic, however, i want to bring up that the VITRIOL acronym is similar in meaning to the translation of the elements (see previous pages for the VITRIOL acronym). if its on danny carey's personal page (written around a polygon on page2) then its probably important

[32FlavorsAndThenSome]

Wow. I need to come to this part of the site more often. This was a great reading and theory. Even if it is not correct and has no validity, it still is astonishing that someone could even think to research this. Good job, I feel enlightened for one of the first times...from this site anyway. :)

[crow011]

this thread is still going?!?!??! . . .

thank god for the return of the "view new posts" option . . .

peace and blessed be . . .

crow011 . . .

[1256]

I was listening to the song Lateralus yesterday as i scrubbed the mold off my deck, and I remembered some other posts about how we were overanalyzing the song. But then i thought, why is that bad? why is seperating the body from the mind a negative thing? don't laugh at this example, but on the original Star Trek there was an episode about a species called the Organians, who had transcended their physical bodies and become beings of pure energy

encarta on alchemy- "The fundamental concept of alchemy stemmed from the Aristotelian doctrine that all things tend to reach perfection. Because other metals were thought to be less “perfect” than gold, it was reasonable to assume that nature formed gold out of other metals deep within the earth and that with sufficient skill and diligence an artisan could duplicate this process in the workshop."

and the other goal of the alchemist was to make himself reach perfection and gain unending life. the quest for the philosopher's stone was not only about gaining the stone but about how the quest for the stone purified you in something more perfect, achieving a sort of divinity (which i don't believe in) while remaining a person at the same time- as in the song.

maybe by overthinking and overanalyzing through our quest for the answers to these mysteries, tool wants us ourselves to transform (albeit in a more real and practical way than the alchemists of old aspired to). our mind(s) can become more detatched allowing us to fully witness each moment, not just through our physical senses.

this gets me thinking, and maybe someone can research this, what did alchemists think their extended life be like after drinking the elixir of life from the philosopher's stone?

[neochrist]

"fuck you buddy"

[corps d'allumen]

No, we are obviously not looking for the holy grail. I often wonder why people post stuff like this? Does it matter to you if the references are put on the album on purpose or if it is merely a series of coincidential patterns? I don't believe anyone posting in here is searching for any grail or the so called meaning of life?! Basicly we are just following what to us seem like interesting and fascinating clues to learn and expand our knowledge. If you do not wish to participate, then don't. No one is forcing you, really... and im sure we won't miss you. Take care, have fun.. bye!
I think people are looking for the 'holy grail.' I think if Tool came out tommorow and said "this is the meaning of life" then two-thirds of the jackasses here would say "I knew it!! I told you!!" when really they didn't know shit, just copying each others "interesting and fascinating clues to learn and expand our knowledge." pretending to know something important. Want to know what their big secret is? How to get a bunch of monkeys to treat them like gods and drool on their dollars as they fork 'em over and make them rich. You go back and take a good, objective look at this forum and then try to say again that noone is looking for something. Why the FUCK! would anyone want to know, for the fun of knowing, what elements the letters in a word make? Secretly, you're all waiting for someone to 'figure it out' thinking you can smear it on your balls and turn into a god, like your idols. You want something to learn and expand your knowledge? Get a fucking clue.

and im sure we won't miss you. Take care, have fun.. bye

[corps d'allumen]

This is an amazing fucking thread...Great job...but I dont think it has anything to do with what Tool intended, it was fun to read though and I learned alot...

Push the envelope. Watch it bend.
Excellent opinion!
Although, the question is "did you learn anything useful?"

I didn't...

[tainednarf1014]

Wow, Its been over a year now since I posted my theory on an average boring school day, in the rarely visted school library. A year and countless posts later Im still unsure of what sparked this theory. Even if its not the actual meaning Im still proud of it. Look how long this thing has lived for I've never seen it off of the first page. Over 7,000 Tool fans have read this and close to 200 have replied. TWO HUNDRED! Thats why I love the tool fan base. Intellect. I have never seen a band create such a big web of thinking. I never thought there would be so many people who agreed with the theory. A board I used to be a member of always flamed my theories. Too them everything I mean everything was JUNG JUNG JUNG. Don't get me wrong I feel theres a presence of Jungian Psychology in some of the songs but I also think theres more than that. And even if there wasn't look at the spark it created in our thinking and puzzle piecing. I truely think that this post this thread deserves a little boasting not just for me but for all you who gave it more structure (The Oscar awards music cuts in, Telling me my to finish up)
So thanks again everyone and keep this thing alive

[tainednarf1014]

I think people are looking for the 'holy grail.' I think if Tool came out tommorow and said "this is the meaning of life" then two-thirds of the jackasses here would say "I knew it!! I told you!!" when really they didn't know shit, just copying each others "interesting and fascinating clues to learn and expand our knowledge." pretending to know something important. Want to know what their big secret is? How to get a bunch of monkeys to treat them like gods and drool on their dollars as they fork 'em over and make them rich. You go back and take a good, objective look at this forum and then try to say again that noone is looking for something. Why the FUCK! would anyone want to know, for the fun of knowing, what elements the letters in a word make? Secretly, you're all waiting for someone to 'figure it out' thinking you can smear it on your balls and turn into a god, like your idols. You want something to learn and expand your knowledge? Get a fucking clue.

and im sure we won't miss you. Take care, have fun.. bye

Why are you so mad. All we are doing is expanding our minds. You like to bring people down don't you. Im sorry you feel that way. We all are looking for something in life thats what makes it worth living. The journey for knowledge. And in all the interviews I've read with Maynard offer a different view of what you say. According to what he said in the interviews he wants his fans to learn and gain knowledge thats why he doesnt give out his meanings. He wants you to get something more out of it that a few programmed body movements. Were having fun doing this while your pissed off alone so why don't you quit while your ahead and join the side that has fun with music.

[PyRoTeKNiC]

We all are looking for something in life thats what makes it worth living.

So true,
I'd argue the real meaning of Lateralus, lies within us all.

[corps d'allumen]

Why are you so mad. All we are doing is expanding our minds. You like to bring people down don't you. Im sorry you feel that way. We all are looking for something in life thats what makes it worth living. The journey for knowledge. And in all the interviews I've read with Maynard offer a different view of what you say. According to what he said in the interviews he wants his fans to learn and gain knowledge thats why he doesnt give out his meanings. He wants you to get something more out of it that a few programmed body movements. Were having fun doing this while your pissed off alone so why don't you quit while your ahead and join the side that has fun with music.
First: I'm not Maynard, and I don't much care that you think I don't have the same opinion. I probably don't. To quote an overly quoted quote, "Think for yourself, question authority."

Second: LIFE is what makes life worth living. True, the quest for knowledge is important, as knowledge expands the mind. But the question is "what is truly trivial information?" If all this... stuff... makes your life worth living, as you said, then hooray for you.

Third: TOOL doesn't readily give the meanings to THEIR songs because THEIR songs are designed to help you learn and gain knowledge of yourself. All this extraneous information usually doesn't help you learn anything else but more extraneous information. If learning the atomic numbers to an album title helps you understand yourself better, good for you. In fact, help me understand how it relates; frankly, I don't see how it ever could...

Fourth: I really don't like to bring people down, although I know I come across that way at times. I am mad, but at the fact that the majority is abusing this band's message to fufill their own insecurities; you're not expanding your mind as much as you are clouding it. I've learned by living life that lots of really important things are not fun. Growth is not fun; growth is painful. Some of the greatest things ever come from extreme pain, just ask your mother. Real life and growth from its experiences comes from living it, not reading or listening or studying it, but living it. Take inspiration from everything and do something positive with it, but remember, it's just an inspiration. How can you live the atomic numbers? How do they help you relate and interact better with yourself or your fellow human beings? The point of TOOL's music is to open your eyes to everything else, not just their music/lyrics/artwork. That is unless you want to be a Tool expert, in which case, sorry to inform you, no universities offer degrees in TooLOLogy yet...

Lastly: It pisses me off to the Nth degree when people say things like, ::ahem::
"If you do not wish to participate, then don't. No one is forcing you, really... and im sure we won't miss you. Take care, have fun.. bye!" People have the right to tell someone that they're doing or saying something stupid, and they have the right to defend themselves. It's called a debate. But in this case specifically, the guy said 'I mean we're not looking for the holy grail here,' and he had the best point in this forum. So the other one tells him to leave because of it... How can this music inspire your life if all you do is dissect the inspiration to get the 'hidden message.' (and more than likely, there isn't one to the degree you think.) The real message, especially in this song, is right in front of your face. "Embrace my desire to feel inspired," not feel inspired to butt-rape someone's music. Maybe on a less tolerating level, "Take what you want and then go." Quote: "In a perfect world, people in general will hear the album, be inspired and do something extraordinary... I get resentful and upset when people don't use their heads about stuff. It upsets me when people are selling themselves short and letting themselves down, wether it's education or information." Hmmm, that sounds so familliar... So keep your fun group, i choose to live.

[africanherbsman]

this post may be coming a bit late, but I still would like to include my 2 cents. They are random, and possibly coincidences just like lots of the info we have come up with

the ear drum, or tempanic membrane, has another name. It is the later ligament of malleus. combine lateral and the us from malleus, and you get lateralus. You can't hear anything without your eardrum, and since this is music I figure that may be one of the many reasons for the album title

[1256]

i feel that as someone who has posted on this thread that i was one of the many people corps d'allumen. though i can only speak for myself, i would like to say that i am not here to find any holy grail or undiscovered secret, nor to expand my mind. i am trying to find for myself the underlying meaning of lateralus so that i can understand TOOL MUSIC AND TOOL MUSIC ONLY. all through tool songs there are allusions and double meanings. just off the top of my head i think of the quote "Saturn ascends" from Grudge. if i did not look for what that meant, i could think it means a planet, when really after thinking and talking to other people i believe that it is talking about the roman god. though i do not believe in roman gods, now that i know who saturn was, i can think about what the lyrics really mean.
i don't think that anyone can fully understand the music, which is all that i'm trying to find here, without knowing things about the band, all these allusions, and the bits of information that the band leaves for us in places like their websites and the song titles.

[polarforsker]

I am mad, but at the fact that the majority is abusing this band's message to fufill their own insecurities; you're not expanding your mind as much as you are clouding it.

That is one hell of an assertion that needs a lot of explaining. I have a hard time believing you would happen to know the lot of the people writing in this post good enough, to point out that we are abusing the bands message to fulfil our own insecurities. Really, seriously how can you make a judgement like that from what has been written in an internet forum? Please elaborate...


The point of TOOL's music is to open your eyes to everything else, not just their music/lyrics/artwork.

Again, how do you know that? How would it be possible for you to know the point of Tool’s music? You might be right, but the point of the music should in fact rely on the listener? Tool being Tool, I agree with you that there the band are conveying messages to it’s listeners. But really you have to search for it yourself… it works on a number of levels. It is possible to enjoy the music without knowing anything of the band and vice versa.
There is no right or wrong when listening to Tool or music in general.

And are we only discussing their music/lyrics/artwork? No, actually we are way beyond that. The first posts took Tool’s music/lyrics/artwork as a point of departure and several post later we’ve been places, seen things, learned bits and pieces that I for one wouldn’t have thought off only listening to the music, reading the lyrics and looking at the artwork.

So are we in fact not opening our eyes to everything else but the music/lyrics/artwork of Tool? I think we are...


Lastly: It pisses me off to the Nth degree when people say things like, ::ahem::
’If you do not wish to participate, then don't. No one is forcing you, really... and im sure we won't miss you. Take care, have fun.. bye!’ People have the right to tell someone that they're doing or saying something stupid, and they have the right to defend themselves. It's called a debate.

Yes, you’re right. It is called a debate. But as much as you have the right defend yourself and tell us that you think we are doing something stupid, as much right I have to defend myself and show someone the door. I can’t force anyone to leave? But I could give him or her the impression that I don’t care if he or she participates and hope that he or she would then leave.


But in this case specifically, the guy said 'I mean we're not looking for the holy grail here,' and he had the best point in this forum.

Again, that is something you think. I don’t agree, I think it was a somewhat indiscrete way of telling many of the people here not to be enthusiastic about something which they obviously enjoy doing? Reading this thread it should be obvious that most of the people writing here is not third graders or stupid bozos and why then should it be necessary to tell them that they are not looking for the Holy Grail? Don’t you think they know?


How can this music inspire your life if all you do is dissect the inspiration to get the 'hidden message.”

Perhaps it would inspire someone to read a book about physics or chemistry, I don't know? How would anyone know how it might inspire ‘us’? The mind is a tricky monster; you never know what starts a thought that might lead to pretty pictures, deep poetry or a great songs?

You might as well turn it around and ask yourself, how can it inspire your life to sit on your ass and criticize people for going in depth with something they obviously enjoy doing? That a question just as dumb as yours!


The real message, especially in this song, is right in front of your face. "Embrace my desire to feel inspired," not feel inspired to butt-rape someone's music. Maybe on a less tolerating level, "Take what you want and then go.

Oh! Now I get it. I see you really do know the real message. Bravo and bravura! But… do you mind if we look into it ourselves? It’s great that you have an opinion on the message of the song Lateralus, but frankly we we’re discussing the album in its entirety. And even more important… just because you see that specific message, doesn’t make it the real message. We might see something else.


Quote: "In a perfect world, people in general will hear the album, be inspired and do something extraordinary... I get resentful and upset when people don't use their heads about stuff. It upsets me when people are selling themselves short and letting themselves down, wether it's education or information." Hmmm, that sounds so familliar... So keep your fun group, i choose to live.

What extraordinary stuff have you been up to lately, corps d'allumen? Except from telling us that we cover our insecurities in the music/lyrics/artwork of Tool, revealing to us all the real meaning of the song Lateralus and enlightening us of the do’s and don’ts of inspiration?

In fact I am very glad you ended the post like you did - Yes, you choose to live… and you chose to end a post about us not being inspired, original and how we buttrape other people’s art with a quote from the very people you accuse us of buttraping. Who is the real buttraper here then?

[corps d'allumen]

Actually, I ended it that way to insinuate that maybe those people kinda do share the same opinion as me, with people selling themselves short or letting themselves down. what will you (informal) do when they're gone? even better (or worse), what will happen if there is no 'divine' message shrouded in mystery? You (informal) are not living, going as far as what you (informal) do with all this nonsense. I've revealed no 'true' meaning, to phrase it that way. I've only stated what is the clear and obvious message right in front of you (informal). What's funny is that most nobody takes it (or most anything) at face value; it all has to be some mysterious riddle. Maybe it is...

Ass for the "do's and don'ts" of inspiration, how could most any of this be positive? It's like Jesus. All he was really saying is 'love one another' and 'treat them as you'd want to be treated.' He had a good message, then it got sodomized. Look at the past 2000 years of the "don'ts of inspiration" there. Not insinuating any correlation, just an example. As for covering insecurities, I have yet to read anyone's post discussing something that Tool has said, (paraprasing) "READ THIS." Remember the book lists of many moons ago? Or even better, something that directly, and I mean directly, relates to the music. No one discusses, for example, Carl or Drunvalo specifically. And if someone does, there's always someone else to challenge it, like the terms taken Specifically out of those texts, aren't really those terms, but some great undiscovered irrelevant mystery. For example, almost any '46&2' post will discuss any far out, for lack of a better phrase, theory. But I've yet to read one that says "well, I've read 'The Portable Jung,' and in it is says this about personally understanding this, or "I've done some heavy research on Melchizadek, and He goes into great detail about this or that."
Have an opinion, be vocal about it, but be rational and informed. People want to have other people to relate with, it's basic psychology; no one wants to be alone in being or thought. Some of these posts are nothing more than that. It's good that people can get together and share ideas, but when it comes down to it, it seems that nobody's really listening to the music for what it says at face value, but over-analysing everything. You can listen to the song and hear what it says about that, or you can subdue yourself with the fibbonaci sequence or the chemical process of 'La Te Ra Lu S."
Gotta go, I'll finish this later.

[polarforsker]

Actually, I ended it that way to insinuate that maybe those people kinda do share the same opinion as me, with people selling themselves short or letting themselves down. what will you (informal) do when they're gone? even better (or worse), what will happen if there is no 'divine' message shrouded in mystery? You (informal) are not living, going as far as what you (informal) do with all this nonsense. I've revealed no 'true' meaning, to phrase it that way. I've only stated what is the clear and obvious message right in front of you (informal). What's funny is that most nobody takes it (or most anything) at face value; it all has to be some mysterious riddle. Maybe it is...

Ass for the "do's and don'ts" of inspiration, how could most any of this be positive? It's like Jesus. All he was really saying is 'love one another' and 'treat them as you'd want to be treated.' He had a good message, then it got sodomized. Look at the past 2000 years of the "don'ts of inspiration" there. Not insinuating any correlation, just an example. As for covering insecurities, I have yet to read anyone's post discussing something that Tool has said, (paraprasing) "READ THIS." Remember the book lists of many moons ago? Or even better, something that directly, and I mean directly, relates to the music. No one discusses, for example, Carl or Drunvalo specifically. And if someone does, there's always someone else to challenge it, like the terms taken Specifically out of those texts, aren't really those terms, but some great undiscovered irrelevant mystery. For example, almost any '46&2' post will discuss any far out, for lack of a better phrase, theory. But I've yet to read one that says "well, I've read 'The Portable Jung,' and in it is says this about personally understanding this, or "I've done some heavy research on Melchizadek, and He goes into great detail about this or that."
Have an opinion, be vocal about it, but be rational and informed. People want to have other people to relate with, it's basic psychology; no one wants to be alone in being or thought. Some of these posts are nothing more than that. It's good that people can get together and share ideas, but when it comes down to it, it seems that nobody's really listening to the music for what it says at face value, but over-analysing everything. You can listen to the song and hear what it says about that, or you can subdue yourself with the fibbonaci sequence or the chemical process of 'La Te Ra Lu S."
Gotta go, I'll finish this later.

It is a matter of perspective really isn't it? Whether you chose to take it at face value or like to go deeper. Only I can't see how the one excludes the other?

Now I wont disturb your thoughts further... I look forward to the sequel.

[darkt]

I would have to say that it is just a nice/cool/awesome way to type lateralus out on the cover.

[1256]

what will happen if there is no 'divine' message shrouded in mystery?

when i am researching what the meaning of Lateralus is, it is not to find some divine message or some holy grail. i try this to understand four people, who got together as TOOL to play the best music in the world.

[corps d'allumen]

It is a matter of perspective really isn't it? Whether you chose to take it at face value or like to go deeper. Only I can't see how the one excludes the other?

Now I wont disturb your thoughts further... I look forward to the sequel.
I really didn't plan to finish this; in retrospect, I don't know why I said I would finish it later... I must have been sleepy...

Not to disappoint, here is the sequel.

Mike Patton is a genius...

Can you feel it, see it, hear it today?
If you can't, then it doesn't matter anyway
You will never understand it cuz it happens too fast
And it feels so good, it's like walking on glass
It's so cool, it's so hip, it's alright
It's so groovy, it's outta sight
You can touch it, smell it, taste it so sweet
But it makes no difference cuz it knocks you off your feet
You want it all but you can't have it
It's cryin', bleedin', lying on the floor
So you lay down on it and you do it some more
You've got to share it, so you dare it
Then you bare it and you tear it
You want it all but you can't have it
It's in your face but you can't grab it
It's alive, afraid, a lie, a sin
It's magic, it's tragic, it's a loss, it's a win
It's dark, it's moist, it's a bitter pain
It's sad it happened and it's a shame
You want it all but you can't have it
It's in your face but you can't grab it
"What is it?"
It's it
"What is it?..."

[corps d'allumen]

when i am researching what the meaning of Lateralus is, it is not to find some divine message or some holy grail. i try this to understand four people, who got together as TOOL to play the best music in the world.
Use the tool to research yourself. Dig deep, and deeper still, until there is nothing left unknown of yourself. Clear it all away until the only thing left is a body of light.

P.S. 'Best music in the world' is a bit of an overstatement, don't you think?
The world is a pretty big place...

[corps d'allumen]

Tool plays good music? Tool plays incredible good music! New meanig to LaTeRaLus: Lateral us.....find us.....postion us.....
I like your opinion. I think of it like they're saying lateral-us, like "we are lateral." And that view of it, to me, gives a good meaning to the supposed misprint of 'lateral-is' on older copies. (In fact, I bought a new copy 2 years after it came out, and it still said 'is'...) The song has a definite 'instruction' or statement-of-purpose feel to it, esp. the breakdown part with "embrace my desire to..." etc. Being lateral, like US, IS this. Spiral out, keep going on and on to enevitable nothingness and infinity; the reduction of matter to the essence of everything...
"To swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human."

http://www.merkaba.org/audio/bluerace.mp3
(I don't much trust any org. that asks for money, but this information is pure.)

[corps d'allumen]

Also, if you listen Faaip de Oiad the caller talks about extra terrastials, maybe they want to be found.
Hmm, I don`t think so, it`s more positioning us in today`s society/world/way to live.
I'm not very sure what you're talking about; which goes with what?
If your second line refers to my interpretation of the song, it's more or less the same as yours. That is what a statement-of-purpose is, stating your intentions.

[ÆnimaticEnigma]

[QUOTE=m4yn4rd
ok well they all are elements, now is it possible anyone can get their hands on these, i doubt it, if so that would be cool, watch you mix it and a 3d puff of gas forms into maynards head[/QUOTE]

I would fucking buy the world's supply

[ÆnimaticEnigma]

Perhaps this is the key to all the Tool mysteries?!






So if Maynard wants people to use their minds... he's has done one hell of job making you guys do it!

I'm not saying it's all bogus and hoax, but in theory you've proven yourself right... and Maynard must be proud!

(interesting theory on the lateralus title nevertheless, keep it going) :)

I think everyone who has posted on here has that thought in the back of their minds. Think about it. Tool has made us all think. From Astrology(The Grudge) to Sacred Geometry (in particular, Lateralus), to expanding and reaching out (Basically Lateralus the album).

We have all become smarter by liking Tool, and I hope they are proud. We've opened up our minds and at least done a little soul searching.

Remember, it isn't the answer; the question is what drives you. If he gave us all the answers, we'd be stupid. Read the quote, he wants us to find out for ourselves, not to sit and learn, but to search and be educated..

Tool is full of metaphors, and we are still striving to figure half of them out. Thank you Tool, thank you.

And guys, don't come here right after you hear a song. Try and find your own meaning behind it. If it's way off, that's ok. At least you stand somewhere by yourself.

Keep learning, open up... and find your heightened state of mind...

[ÆnimaticEnigma]

it's not a phone number....I called it....got one of those stupid recordings.....

haha.. you're thinking...that's good...

Maybe it's some European number?

Haha I wonder what that'd lead to

[ÆnimaticEnigma]

You`re right, when someone thinks this is the best music, it`s personal, other people can think you`re best music is crap....but to me Tool is the best.

Yeah... that's why I get mad at people who are like "this sucks" or "this is the shit"

I'm glad you like/don't like it, but keep that to yourself.

Don't become a tool; get your own opinion :)

[ÆnimaticEnigma]

true... but if you get a meaning out of music, it has a meaning for you... just because it isn't your taste doesn't mean another hates it...

not everyone likes tool... sucks but you have to accept it. Some think Tool are your R&B... what would you have to say to that?

[1256]

what a sidetrack to my comment about tool being the best music
its my personal opinion blah blah whatever some people hate it i know i know

after coming back from being away for a while, i thought i would find some thought provoking stuff about the meaning but i hear all this well we're all entitled to our own opinion yeah i know my guidance councilors have talked to me

don't let the thread die
this information is priceless (well not quite but pretty useful)

so back on topic.. i wonder if there's a unifying factor linking together the meanings, from the "we are lateral" to the "occultum lapidem"... there is no coincidence here

[symbiosis]

i've spent 3 hours and didn't even make it to the 4th page, this is one great topic, thanks to everyone that contributed.

[spiralion]

there are such things as "triads" in chemistry..........

[radmanics]

Woh.. this thread's gone down the shitter.. s'all "you're wrong" "I'm right but I'm not because I can't be" .... :|

If we're not going to concentrate just on the music, we'd need extra suplurluous (spelling?) knowledge... Whatever "floats your boat".

corps d'allumen, most of the discussions like that are in the gen chat forums.. I've never read the actual topics, but I've seen titles. I am currently reading Jung - Modern Man in Search of a Soul, and I've 3/4 more of his books to read. I've read both The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail and its sequel The Massanic Legend.

As such, Rennes-le-Chatuex seems to be a colection of personal riddles of Sanerré (sorry, I don't know a word of french). The authoers of THBaTHG described it an introduction aucistrated by the Puirré de Sion (I can't spell english either I know).

No information is useless. You might not find a use for it now, but who knows, maybe you can use it to talk to a cute girl/cute for the first time? :p

[Fast Fingers]

Do you think that maybe the idea for this was already thought out when Aenema was released? Maybe Ions and some part of Lateralus go together so Ions was a segway into this album. That may not work though because Third Eye was the last track.

[Luke Madrid]

Re-arange the letters in Lateralus.

"True as all."
"A real slut."
"A real lust."
"A last rule."
"Aura tells."
"A last lure."
"All use art."

Any of these seem like Maynard's thinking?

[Cyanide ChrYst]

They all sound like those magical quotes he says in interviews.

"Say maynard, when do you intend to release the new album?"
"The wind blows where it will."


*crowd falls silent; into deep self-reflective trance*

[exojjl]

purely based on my education in the subject area of chemistry, i would say no such compound exists, and any attempt to create such a compound would probably result in radiation poisoning or cancer, as it did madame curie, who discovered radium.

the idea of a sequence of numbers i find far more likely. now we just need to figure out what 75-52-88-71-16 means.

its a telephone numbah!!!!
or at first i thought so. I looked up a 755 area code and got nothing.

[exojjl]

I checked these elements out
lanthanum
Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: silvery white
Classification: Metallic
Lanthanum is silvery white
The metal reacts directly with elemental carbon, nitrogen, boron, selenium, silicon, phosphorus, sulphur, and with halogens>

tellurium
Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: silvery lustrous grey
Classification: Semi-metallic
Crystalline tellurium has a silvery-white appearance, and exhibits a metallic lustre when pure >

RAdium
Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: metallic
Classification: Metallic
Pure metallic radium is brilliant white when freshly prepared>

lutetium.
Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: silvery white
Classification: Metallic >

sulphur.

Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: lemon yellow
Classification: Non-metallic
Sulphur is a pale yellow, odourless, brittle solid, which is insoluble in water but soluble in carbon disulphide.
SULPHUR IS ESSENTIAL TO LIFE. >


hmmmmmmmmm. The colors of them, and the colors mentioned in the song Lateralus. hmmmmmmmmmm. interesting.
Just a half thought process going on here.

Black then WHITE are all I see in my infancy.
red and YELLOW (Sulphur is essential to life) then came to be, reaching out to me.
lets me see.

For some reason i dont believe this is any coincidence at all. The band knows about stuff, and they research anything that interestests them.

[exojjl]

I was listening to the song Lateralus yesterday as i scrubbed the mold off my deck, and I remembered some other posts about how we were overanalyzing the song. But then i thought, why is that bad? why is seperating the body from the mind a negative thing? don't laugh at this example, but on the original Star Trek there was an episode about a species called the Organians, who had transcended their physical bodies and become beings of pure energy


REPLY:
becuase if you seperate your body from your mind, you cannot perform physical actions well. You need both your body and your mind equally together to perform. and when they are at two different lengths, its unbalanced.
Therefore Your mind cannot interpret what your body is doing.
I have used meditation to strengthen my body and mind.
When meditating, you are clearing your mind and bringing it back together.

[deloney]

lol im an idiot before i read ur reply i wrote: well i dont think its about seperating body from mind, but more of integrating both of these to the best of our ability. throughout human history we have let one part, the mind or the body, take control when infact they are one and the same. now dont laugh at my quote but its from nine inch nails. it goes "the way out is through." i think thats very true.

i agree with u exojjl. bravo

[exojjl]

lol im an idiot before i read ur reply i wrote: well i dont think its about seperating body from mind, but more of integrating both of these to the best of our ability. throughout human history we have let one part, the mind or the body, take control when infact they are one and the same. now dont laugh at my quote but its from nine inch nails. it goes "the way out is through." i think thats very true.

i agree with u exojjl. bravo

thank you, that is what i was trying to say.

You cannot live with one or the other.

[1256]

about the elements, if you read the whole thread, you would see that a chemical reaction with these components is next to impossible. first of all, only sulphur is a nonmetal (tellurium is a metalloid, all the others are metals). i suppose you could do some weird stuff to the valence electrons or maybe make some polyatomic ions using sulfur and the metals? or maybe you can't have metals in polyatomic ions... well anyway a normal chemical reaction is out. or is it... after all if the recipe is floating around, maybe this complexity is why no one's been able to create the elixir, because anyone with enough skill to perform it is too isolated from the mythology of it. but anyway, this is probably not real, its just a cool thing from tool to us which makes me think the elements are not the way to go. you should follow the other clues, such as the templar references and danny carey's fascination with the sauniere legend. reading through the whole thread will convince you that something's there. the only interesting thing i got from the alchemy posts where VITRIOL..which appears on danny carey's website. this is pretty interesting stuff.

[1256]

Have you never heard of alloys???
Alloys are mixtures, not compounds, and so are unlikely candidates, I believe, for the elixir of life.

[Cyanide ChrYst]

The elixer of life...you mean jizz?

Maybe the whole album is about spooging!

[tainednarf1014]

God this is insane. Almost 10,000 people have read this message. I just want to say thanks again to everyone's contribution. It's funny how many people are so close minded about this theory. I can understand someone disagreeing, but being so blindingly one sided reminds me of a large cult called christians or Republicans if youd like. It's amazing how the extreme lefts and rights think their so different. Use your mind not someone elses. Not bits and pieces you've picked up from proffessors and friends. If you listen just for the music thats fine but there has to be some deeper meaning to you. Don't put down someone elses idea just because you disagree, explain why you disagree and accept the fact that no one will ever know except Maynard and maybe the people he's told.

On a different note, I came across a Tool shirt i've never seen before. On the front of the shirt was and outline of a human body and in the four corners surrounding the human body were the letters of Tool but they were situated like this. Tt Oo Oo Ll, and they were placed in little boxes like the boxes you'd find in the table of elements. I just thought that was kind of intresting. Let me know what you think.

[davelisowski]

So I've read most of this and I must say, "I'm impressed." Whether or not these things were intentional or not, people are viewing this album as art and art is meant to be interpreted. I would not be surprised if Tool spent the time to come up with a variety of layers in everything they put into this album. If you think about it, all they had to do was follow every idea to the very end, just keep going. Spending a long time reflecting on the same things over and over again could possibly lead to some sort of huge inter-connected gallery of ideas. Regardless of coincidence, or intentional meaning, this album is a true work of art and each person brings what he or she can to the table. When everyone does this, all of our internal contexts provide a plethora of interpretations which I feel is really at the heart and soul (the essence) of art and of Tool as a band. I really enjoyed what I have read, and I look forward to seeing more threads like this (sans the flames for repetitions or interpretations).

[Ertai]

it appears that behind danny there is a figure identical to the anima cover...


maybe, but it can be anything... its not too convincing...

[1256]

so now that i know chem, i might go back and look at all the junk i and everyone else said. remember, alchemy is about the quest, not the result.

[Only gonna post once...]

http://dreamtheater.net/bb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68111&pagenumber=1

BTW my name says it all about me on this board...

[ARMZ]

http://dreamtheater.net/bb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68111&pagenumber=1

BTW my name says it all about me on this board...
Well you might come back to read........

For a band that's been around for 14 years now, has had only one member replaced, makes music videos that get hardly any airplay along with their singles, has sold millions and millions of records with out commercialism and has made only 3 original full length albums to date must be pretty fucking good.

To say tool fans are morons just because we like to make shit up that might not necessarily be in the exact same context as what the band had in mind, doesn't mean we should stop or that we are any different to you bunch of morons.

Fucking idiots I don't give a fuck if you think we're more intelligent then you are, or you think your more intelligent then us.
What the fuck are you going to do if you see a car speeding towards you? are you going to calculate it's trajectory and time of impact? or are you going to move out of the fucking way?. Fucking intelligence created the nuclear bomb why don't you fucking use that and stick it up your fucking ass.

What ever gets you hard.

[Andy DV]

you're not helping.

besides, theyre just jealous that their band doesn't leave much to the imagination.

[The_Patient]

Ive found out a couple thinks that could be relavent to this theory. I looked into the meaning of each element and each element derives from a latin word. So far I've found that La or Lanthenum means "to lie beneath" and Te or Tellerium means "earth" so maybe "to lie beneath the earth". I havent found out what the other elements latin definition is but I will look into it.



Perfect ^

[Only gonna post once...]

Well you might come back to read........

For a band that's been around for 14 years now, has had only one member replaced, makes music videos that get hardly any airplay along with their singles, has sold millions and millions of records with out commercialism and has made only 3 original full length albums to date must be pretty fucking good.

To say tool fans are morons just because we like to make shit up that might not necessarily be in the exact same context as what the band had in mind, doesn't mean we should stop or that we are any different to you bunch of morons.

Fucking idiots I don't give a fuck if you think we're more intelligent then you are, or you think your more intelligent then us.
What the fuck are you going to do if you see a car speeding towards you? are you going to calculate it's trajectory and time of impact? or are you going to move out of the fucking way?. Fucking intelligence created the nuclear bomb why don't you fucking use that and stick it up your fucking ass.

What ever gets you hard.

Am gonna have to break the meaning of my username and post more than once, but it's for a good cause. I have posted on that DT thread, since I am a regular on there. There is no point in bringing up figures and members of Tool or DT, since they have nothing to do with it. The point on there is very clear. This thread is weird. It's not creative, it's weird. Personally I don't think Tool fans are morons, but what was written on here is weird. I too have Lateralus, and am a big fan of Geddy, but that's got shit to do with this. It's got nothing to do with intelligence; nobody's intelligent and nobody is stupid here (hell, I know all that stuff about Latin since I have a doctorate in it, yet I keep failing my driving test!). We were poking you guys for fun...after all, the title of the thread was "IN THE END even Tool fans can be total morons..., since you are probably the very last group of fans to have done something incredibly stupid, so you can take a few chuckles away with you.

Peace brother

Peace

[Andy DV]

well, thanks i guess for trying to defend the more belligerent DT people, as i would probably do the same if i were to post over there. but its clear by reading that thread that they didn't find the theory 'weird' (which would definately be taken as complimentary around here), but stupid, which it isn't. its pretty damn cool and yes, creative, i think. especially if you know a thing or two about TOOL and the likelihood of latin being present in some obscure way.

but whatever. peace indeed.

[tainednarf1014]

Weird and not creative you say. Creative to me is weird after all Tool's music is outside the lines of norm, being weird, so to say it's not creative is pretty offending. I think the idea is weird but it is also creative. I'm not saying im right about the whole theory but look how many people responded. If anything it's sparked alot of conversation. I like Tool because they make me think, and I'm sick of you and every other fucking Tool dictator trying to tell us thinkers that were idiots, morons, wrong, uncreative and anything else degrading. We do what we do here because we like Tool, Who cares who knows more and who likes them the most. WE ALL LIKE TOOL AND WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME SIDE. KNOW YOUR ENEMY. The song interpretations are all theories and know one but Maynard will completely understand the true meaning of them. Our theories are just our own ways of interpreting their songs and drawing meaning out of what we enjoy and respect. Don't put people down beacause they went out of their way to find a meaning in a song from a band thats most likely a huge part of their life.

[thelambslain]

Maybe those numbers are from maynards creditcard :-)

This person obviously hasn't ever seen a credit card number before.

[aneriz]

Alright, I started readin this thread and saw it was 7 pages (2 years) long and decided to cut to the end, so if any of this has been covered i apologize.

First: My view of lateralus: I plugged the word into a latin translator i have and got this:

"later.us having X sides (only with numerical prefix)"

so if laterus is having X sides we need an X for the number of sides. What has been left out is AL. Hopefully this rings some bells...no?

Crowley's work centers on Liber AL, aka "The Book of The Law"
What does AL mean? Crowley uses the letters as numbers, the letter corresponds with its placement number in the alphabet so: A=1 and L=12 therefore AL=13

laterALus = having 13 sides (so AL isn't a numerical PREFIX, shoot me)

Second: all that stuff with the elements is quite interesting, i'll cut to the chase with this. The "philosophers stone" is actually gold in it's purest form which is a white powder, and (still reading about this) is made by using fire in a certain combination with base gold. Moses creates this powder --- "and he took the calf which they had made, and consumed the gold with fire, and ground it to a powder, and sowed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it".
(let the waters kiss, and transmutate...)

Read: Laurence Gardner's "Bloodline of the Holy Grail" and "Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark" (he has a couple other books too) and you'll have a different outlook on Maynard's lyrics (esp. if you read Bloodline...)
oh yeah and this is interesting too..."An Open Entrance to the Closed Palace of the King" by Eirenaeus Philalethes find it at http://www.rexresearch.com/alchemy/opntranc.htm

[1256]

i feel an idiot!

i never knew about the whole newsletter thing, but when i found it today i was like w/e, until, i was reading the recent ones and they're like rennes rennes rennes!
sauniere and stuff is all over that thing, and everything in those newsletters are clues. well not everything. some of it's news. but it's like a poem- there is nothing extraneous. so if you think something means something, it very well may. i, now, and too far removed from the marvel of the mystery to investigate properly. if one of you has the time and the perception, both of which i now lack, please enlighten me/us. this makes it very plausible that the members may have vraiment cache qqch in their disc.
and an aside, "heart of darkness" is very depressing. don't read it.

[Neil]

I think that Jaques Suenire (sp?), is a fictional character from popular novel The Da Vinci Code. So lets not try to cite anything involving Suenire as a source of information regarding the Holy Grail.

[1256]

I think that Jaques Suenire (sp?), is a fictional character from popular novel The Da Vinci Code. So lets not try to cite anything involving Suenire as a source of information regarding the Holy Grail.
dan brown didn't exactly invent his own ideas. sauniere of his story was no more an invented name than da vinci. the fact that someone has used a name in fiction should not make you think different of it in fact. so let's leave dan brown's flagrant twisting of a well-known legend out of this. the evidence stands for itself.

[jonathan2994]

purely based on my education in the subject area of chemistry, i would say no such compound exists, and any attempt to create such a compound would probably result in radiation poisoning or cancer, as it did madame curie, who discovered radium.

the idea of a sequence of numbers i find far more likely. now we just need to figure out what 75-52-88-71-16 means.


That is the same format of phone numbers in France...

[paraflux]

where is sandoz when you need her

[Sandoz]

It's not a French number.

[jonathan2994]

It's not a French number.


OK, then try (575) 288-7116. I thought about that in Biology class. Also, it's no "75", it's 57. Look at a chart.

[jonathan2994]

Holy shit.

I thought about what the number would call, and looked up the area code on the internet. 575 is New Mexico. Doesn't Maynard supposedly reside in Arizona or NM?

[jonathan2994]

I just did another, and apparently the number calls Bogota, Columbia.

[Ertai]

bump....its been a few months since this thread... we had something excellent brewing here

[Odibilëph]

Yeah... seems like the resources have been drained...?

[TenSpeed]

"LA: Lanthanum
TE: Tellurium
RA: Radium
LU: Lutetium
S(last single letter): Sulfur

Greek & Latin Meaning
--------------------------
Lanthanum: From the Greek word lanthaneis (to lie hidden)
Tellurium: From the Greek word tellus (Earth or Beneath)
Radium: From the Latin word radius (light ray)
Lutetium: From "Lutetia", the ancient Latin name for Paris(often called the "city of lights")
Sulfur: From the Latin word sulfur (hellfire or brimstone)

After conjugating the verbs and whatnot:
"Lying hidden beneath the light of Paris is hellfire."

Given Tool's obsessive interest in the occult aspects of "Rennes-le-Château" and it's connection to the ancient Paris meridian, I think it's fair to say the album title is significant..."

[1256]

if anyone bothered to read the whole thread, you'll see about 15 people who have said that, some with better translations than others... but since no one will, could i call your attention to vitriol?
V isita "Visit"
I nteriora the "interior"
T errae "of the earth;"
R ectificando "in rectifying,"
I nvenies "discover"
O ccultum "the hidden"
L apidem "stone."
kind of similar, but not completely. however, this is very important to the mystery, as we've seen many times before on the thread. please read the thread, the whole thing, i'm begging you. i'd see this through to the end if it wasn't for chicks stealing my attention. but if you read the thread, we won't have to re-invent the wheel. also its great stuff.

[Eric29]

Lateralus - working title was 9-8-7

La-te-ra-lus = 9 letters
La-te-ra-us = 8 letters
La-te-ra-l = 7 letters

[SuperSteve]

What a crazy thread.




Lets read on....

[Ashes-TO-Ashes]

I can't believe this has people thinking so much.

Am I to believe that Tool collectively ventured high into the Himalyas to study with Buddhist priests on a hundred years' journey to encrypt divinr messages into an album title? Can you picture Tool laboring over a periodic table, analyzing ions, sequences, melting points, Latin nomenclature, alchemical pseudo-interactions...?

They thought up the word Lateralus, then split it up to make Elemental symbols and lead all of you on a wild goose chase for the impossible.

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!