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champion
10-24-2004, 11:30 AM
i recently had a discussion about undertow with a friend, and i've come to a nice explanation of intolerance.

in my eyes, the song is about recognizing a fundamental state of humanity. important lines from the song include "no one is innocent," "you lie, cheat, and steal, and yet i tolerate you," "our guilt, our blame, i've been far too sympathetic," and "i will no longer tolerate you, even if i have to go down beside you."

humans try to convince themselves of having a good-hearted nature. maynard is explaining the true reason why human beings are intolerant; not because we are upset that people get away with doing bad things, but because we are envious and angry because they are using us as a tool to get ahead. we live our lives completely for ourselves, and by other people being one step ahead of us, we feel cheated and used. "shroud of virtue hung to mask your stigma" is about our habit of pretending and convincing others that we are good people, when we fail to realize that the purely egotistical nature of man is what truly drives us.

the theme for the entire album, i think, is about the nature of humanity; ie., our problems and why we are only creating a deeper cavern by trying to convince ourselves that they can be fixed.

Andvari
11-17-2004, 09:40 PM
i recently had a discussion about undertow with a friend, and i've come to a nice explanation of intolerance.

in my eyes, the song is about recognizing a fundamental state of humanity. important lines from the song include "no one is innocent," "you lie, cheat, and steal, and yet i tolerate you," "our guilt, our blame, i've been far too sympathetic," and "i will no longer tolerate you, even if i have to go down beside you."

humans try to convince themselves of having a good-hearted nature. maynard is explaining the true reason why human beings are intolerant; not because we are upset that people get away with doing bad things, but because we are envious and angry because they are using us as a tool to get ahead. we live our lives completely for ourselves, and by other people being one step ahead of us, we feel cheated and used. "shroud of virtue hung to mask your stigma" is about our habit of pretending and convincing others that we are good people, when we fail to realize that the purely egotistical nature of man is what truly drives us.

the theme for the entire album, i think, is about the nature of humanity; ie., our problems and why we are only creating a deeper cavern by trying to convince ourselves that they can be fixed.


That is a truly an amazing theory :)
everyone knows that people are generally bad. a kind act could reflect the guilt of actions taken in the past, or the need to atone with your life as it is. A simple crutch to go on about your life. thanks for sharing your ideas

Undertolerance
11-19-2004, 05:40 AM
ASO! *bows* Very good grasshappa, you have seen the ways of the true nature. Well as much as the fragile human mind can comprehend, but you hace seen it. Perhaps you are not truly from "here", but mayhaps you are just brighter than most. Gratz on seeing something that beyond the standard illusion of man. That is quite the healthy perspective despite the fact that it may seem not as such to others, though it is most true. I have felt for many a year that humans are instinctively evil in nature, it is just a matter of how much they are willing to hold back. This is not to say by any means that humans are not good, quite the opposite in fact. Meaning; that human choice is the ultimate sign in what we do as a sentient lifeform. It is the freedom of will and thought that sets us all apart from the other animals, for that is what we truly are. We pray on and feed off of our preditory instincts more so than we realize. This happens daily and most people are unaware of this simple fact. One can see this by stepping outside themselves and all that surrounds them and looking at the whole picture from a safe distance. This is how one must truly "see" the world and how things really are.