How can you ignore this....

[Lateral Us]

"Give away the stone. Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold."

Lead was both a popular material for the ancient alchemist's work, and a metaphor for the imperfect raw material of the universe, a substance in which the spark of divine was hidden by impurities and invisible to the uninitiated. The aim of the alchemist's work was to magnify this divine spark, so that it would purify and perfect the physical form in which it resided, transforming the impure raw material into an expression of balance and perfection.

Central to this spiritual and physical work is the idea of Transmutation, the idea that through the correct intent and work, any thing can be brought to a higher state of being, and eventually to perfection. The common notion of the alchemist working to turn lead into gold is just one expression of this path to perfection. The alchemist seeks to purify and elevate all that is worked on, and through this external purification, achieve an internal perfection of the self.

In fact, in ancient texts, the transmutation of lead to gold was not seen as an end in itself, but rather a test of the alchemical medicine, to determine if it was pure enough to be taken internally. If the alchemist's Stone was made truly perfect, it could in turn bring anything else to that same level of perfection, whether base metal or human.

From: http://www.al-kemi.com/Initiatic/T4T/t4t.html

Now, to me, that seems like the key point in uderstanding the meaning of this song. Anyone have any comments?

[Cyanide ChrYst]

I almost killed a dog when I was driving today.

[Lateral Us]

"Clutch it like a Corner Stone"

Something Else I found:

The Waterstone of the Wise (AKA The Philosophers Stone)

This important and influential text parallels the Philosophers' Stone with Christ, the Corner Stone. It had a long publishing history.
Johann Ambrosius Siebmacher. Wasserstein der Weysen, das ist, ein chymisch Tractätlein, darin der Weg gezeiget, die Materia genennet, und der Process beschrieben wird, zu dem hohen geheymnuss der Universal Tinctur zukommen, vor diesem niemalen gesehen. Darbey auch zwey sehr nutzliche andere Büchlein der Gleichformigkeit und Concordantz wegen angehenckt, nemlich, 1. Iohan von Mesung. 2. Via veritatis der einigen Warheit..., Frankfurt, 1619, 1661, 1703, 1704, 1709, 1710, 1743, 1760.
A Latin translation was included in the Musaeum Hermeticum, Frankfurt, 1625, 1678 and 1749. It was also included in Manget's Bibliotheca chemica curiosa, Geneva, 1702.
Later in the 18th century it still made an appearance in the Hermetisches A.B.C. Berlin, 1778, and the Magazin für die höhere Naturwissenschaft und Chemie. Tubingen, 1784.

From this alchemy site: http://levity.com/alchemy/hydrolit.html

Although this might have nothing with that particular line, thought some people might find something there, im undecided whether or not it is linked to the lyrics "Clutch it like a cornerstone", im very doubtfull.

[anotherPieceOfThePuzzle]

I almost killed a dog when I was driving today.

I wish the dog was driving and you were doing the walking...

[anotherPieceOfThePuzzle]

"Clutch it like a Corner Stone"

Although this might have nothing with that particular line, thought some people might find something there, im undecided whether or not it is linked to the lyrics "Clutch it like a cornerstone", im very doubtfull.

And you are still undecided ? :)

Thanks for the link by the way.

I don't get it why so many people scrutinize the lyrics while it's actually right there...in your face...the ancient recuring theme of the philosopher's stone...the 46&2 chromosomes...all figurally speaking...the theme of turning lead into gold...of dealing with all internal struggles and free us all (each man/woman holds the keys). It's the theme in 46&2, stinkfist, the grudge, reflection (I pray the light lifts me out)...and beyond tool it is what Buddha was searching...the end of this universal suffering.

I doubt it btw if Tool is against Christ as some like to believe. I don't want to speak for anyone else but it seems to me Tool is against depicting god as one person, Jesus Christ or the Devil if you're a satanist, and seeing yourself seperate from all that is. That's why each vote does matter !

[tcM_Emperor]

I wish the dog was driving and you were doing the walking...

That's impossible! Dogs can't drive.

[TheHolyGift]

What are you talkin' about? Of course dogs can drive. You just have to believe in them.

[Cyanide ChrYst]

I bet if you sit there and overanalyze the dog for like three days, it will develop the mental capacity to pilot an automobile.

[Cyanide ChrYst]

I wish the dog was driving and you were doing the walking...

Yeah? I wish you were the squirrel on the side of the road, and the dog was driving and I was the dog, except the dog was me so my body was driving with the dog inside my head and I was me inside the dog's body running in front of the car, and you're the squirrel with the nut in his hand you stole from another squirrel down the road, who ends up getting killed on his birthday by a raised '99 tacoma, and when you realize what has happened you put the nut on his body and then offer yourself to the screeching tires of the truck driven by the dog inside my body, only to end in a bloody spatter of mutilated mammal mass.


Bitch.

[Lateral Us]

And you are still undecided ? :)

Thanks for the link by the way.

I don't get it why so many people scrutinize the lyrics while it's actually right there...in your face...the ancient recuring theme of the philosopher's stone...the 46&2 chromosomes...all figurally speaking...the theme of turning lead into gold...of dealing with all internal struggles and free us all (each man/woman holds the keys). It's the theme in 46&2, stinkfist, the grudge, reflection (I pray the light lifts me out)...and beyond tool it is what Buddha was searching...the end of this universal suffering.

I doubt it btw if Tool is against Christ as some like to believe. I don't want to speak for anyone else but it seems to me Tool is against depicting god as one person, Jesus Christ or the Devil if you're a satanist, and seeing yourself seperate from all that is. That's why each vote does matter !

Thanks for the good reply, and i agree with what you say. I dont know about the cornerstone lyrics, but the undoubtfull side is because it is the same theme of the philosophers stone, which seems to be the theme of the grudge. Just cant find any more solid evidence other that the same word benig used in an Alchemy article. Ill keep searching.

[anotherPieceOfThePuzzle]

Thanks for the good reply, and i agree with what you say. I dont know about the cornerstone lyrics, but the undoubtfull side is because it is the same theme of the philosophers stone, which seems to be the theme of the grudge. Just cant find any more solid evidence other that the same word benig used in an Alchemy article. Ill keep searching.


Your doubt appears to be contagious :) I'm also not sure anymore if the corner stone is a reference to the philosopher's stone. Maybe it's just a...corner stone and nothing more. If you take it away, the whole house comes down.
Anyway, I think the most important thing is that we get the general idea behind the song. And that is the alchemy.

I also have no idea what Saturn has to do with it. I've read something about Saturn completing it's cycle in 29 years or so. I guess it's a metaphysical concept I haven't heard yet.

My guess on the Scarlet lettermen is that it is a metaphor for people who've been told what to do and how to behave. Their accusers want to control all and everything and are unable to forgive anyone who crosses their line.

This song never gets boring :)

[Lateral Us]

Your doubt appears to be contagious :) I'm also not sure anymore if the corner stone is a reference to the philosopher's stone. Maybe it's just a...corner stone and nothing more. If you take it away, the whole house comes down.
Anyway, I think the most important thing is that we get the general idea behind the song. And that is the alchemy.

I also have no idea what Saturn has to do with it. I've read something about Saturn completing it's cycle in 29 years or so. I guess it's a metaphysical concept I haven't heard yet.

My guess on the Scarlet lettermen is that it is a metaphor for people who've been told what to do and how to behave. Their accusers want to control all and everything and are unable to forgive anyone who crosses their line.

This song never gets boring :)

Yes, thats the picture i get from the corner stone lyric aswell. As for Saturn's involvement, the metal which saturn controls or 'rules' is Lead, lol. There are a lot of deeper things behind the planets in Alchemy, but i am not an expert, and i think it would take too long to explain if i could. I am still confused about the scarlet lettermen. As for:

"Calculate what we will or will not tolerate.
Desperate to control all and everything"

Put yourself in the situation of being the victim of verbal abuse, an argument etc etc. When someone says something that is hurtfull to you, immediately there is a desperation to take control of the situation, and say something hurtful back. What you should do with this grudge you have against them, is wear this it like a crown of negativity (just act as if it bounced straight off you, even if it didnt) and just tolerate the person. Basically, calculate whether your actions are going to result in a negative or positive situation, and if it is negative, just wear your grudge like acrown of negativity and tolerate the other person or persons. If you can do this, in time, those Leaden Grudges will become positive things for you to learn from, so you become a better person, - they are turned to gold. Think about how hard that is though, not easy to just walk away from situations like that.

[anotherPieceOfThePuzzle]

Put yourself in the situation of being the victim of verbal abuse, an argument etc etc. When someone says something that is hurtfull to you, immediately there is a desperation to take control of the situation, and say something hurtful back. What you should do with this grudge you have against them, is wear this it like a crown of negativity (just act as if it bounced straight off you, even if it didnt) and just tolerate the person. Basically, calculate whether your actions are going to result in a negative or positive situation, and if it is negative, just wear your grudge like acrown of negativity and tolerate the other person or persons. If you can do this, in time, those Leaden Grudges will become positive things for you to learn from, so you become a better person, - they are turned to gold. Think about how hard that is though, not easy to just walk away from situations like that.

Hummz that makes a lot of sense. Very similar to my viewpoint. Thanks.

The only (slight) difference is that I see this grudge as the grudge of others and not my own grudge.
I was told that in that book of the Scarlet Lettermen a woman had to wear the letter A for Adultery on her clothing...because her adultery was disaproved by others. So in this context that makes it their grudge that she was wearing.

If you act embarrased or affected because of having to wear the letter, than their judgemental mentality is rewarded and it has the desired effect. Wear it like a crown and it may open their eyes and the grudge (lead) may turn into a better perspective (gold) ...towards adultery, clothing, race, whatever.

[Lateral Us]

Hummz that makes a lot of sense. Very similar to my viewpoint. Thanks.

The only (slight) difference is that I see this grudge as the grudge of others and not my own grudge.
I was told that in that book of the Scarlet Lettermen a woman had to wear the letter A for Adultery on her clothing...because her adultery was disaproved by others. So in this context that makes it their grudge that she was wearing.

If you act embarrased or affected because of having to wear the letter, than their judgemental mentality is rewarded and it has the desired effect. Wear it like a crown and it may open their eyes and the grudge (lead) may turn into a better perspective (gold) ...towards adultery, clothing, race, whatever.

Good point, i agree with that aswell. I supose it could work both ways (my desription & yours combined), in that, both people will grow from the experience, through your personal strength of character, its rewarding in the end for yourself, but also helps the other person.

[anotherPieceOfThePuzzle]

Good point, i agree with that aswell. I supose it could work both ways (my desription & yours combined), in that, both people will grow from the experience, through your personal strength of character, its rewarding in the end for yourself, but also helps the other person.

Any other song you'd like to discuss ? ;)

I'm writing something on H of the Aenema album. Going to post it somewhere soon. It's probably one of the songs most open for interpretations, since I've seen people who say it's about Heroin, Half Empty/Half Full, Maynards' son Devo H and so on. I see it as a song with a budhistic meaning as well. I believe it's exactly that factor that makes the possibilities endless. It could be about everything and nothing. enough ramblings...;)

Take care !