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Seeker of Matter
08-08-2004, 01:40 PM
Hi there, I will start by saying that this is truly an amazing forum. I have never seen a place with so much intellect collected in one single place. It truly amazes me what people here think. it has at least made my horizon a lot wider :)

well i have been listening to lateralus for quite some time now and I think it is a great album in so many ways and planes. But there is this one thing that keeps bugging me.

In reflection Maynard says that we are really just reflectors of "information" and that we reflect that information like the moon reflects the light from the sun.
What I don't understand is how this can be positive knowledge. That we are just "lifeless satellites" without this "light", that is not even our own.
And what about the "crucify the ego" part. How can it be positive to give up one's identity, isn't that who you are?
Don’t get me wrong I truly love that song I think it is one of the best songs they have ever made :)

please help me cast some light here so that I can do some "self-reflection" and find out the meaning of this ;)

Please forgive my horrible grammer I am only a poor Danish student

thank you

Mr Omnipotent
08-08-2004, 04:14 PM
he says "without her we are lifeless satilights", and he says crucify the ego meaning crucify your selfishness, get rid of your dissonance towards others... its an uplifting song

tuniabdoh
08-08-2004, 09:30 PM
Hi there, I will start by saying that this is truly an amazing forum. I have never seen a place with so much intellect collected in one single place. It truly amazes me what people here think. it has at least made my horizon a lot wider :)Thank you, and welcome to TDN.

In reflection Maynard says that we are really just reflectors of "information" and that we reflect that information like the moon reflects the light from the sun.
What I don't understand is how this can be positive knowledge. That we are just "lifeless satellites" without this "light", that is not even our own.It's a Buddhist idea. First read this:

"A person getting enlightened is like the moon reflecting in the water. The moon does not get wet, the water is not disturbed. Though it is a great expanse of light, it reflects in a little bit of water; the whole moon and the whole sky reflect even in the dew on the grass; they reflect even in a single drop of water. Enlightenment not disturbing the person is like the moon not piercing the water. A person not obstructing enlightenment is like the dewdrop not obstructing the heavens."

- Dogen, "Flowers Fall"

The idea is that your beliefs are tools more than anything else. Try not to get too attached to them. Creationists and Scientologists are two groups that I think have a problem with this.

And what about the "crucify the ego" part. How can it be positive to give up one's identity, isn't that who you are?
Don’t get me wrong I truly love that song I think it is one of the best songs they have ever made :)

please help me cast some light here so that I can do some "self-reflection" and find out the meaning of this ;)If you've ever heard someone say that they "Believe nothing." You probably thought, "Well they must at least believe that they need to breathe." This is a reasonable thing to think, but it makes it hard to explain certain ideas.

The person who believes in nothing, has learned from experience that their body will die if they stop breathing. But they don't think of their body as them. It's what they use to experience this reality and very nice, but they can let go of it. Maynard isn't saying that you are nothing. He's saying that you are in fact a collection of many things.




This also relates to memetics. Memetics, is the study of beliefs where the beliefs (memes) are treated like genes. A giraffe with a short neck won't live to pass on it's genes, a man who pokes tigers will not live to pass on his meme (poking tigers is good) unless he escapes, in which case he will realise it is bad.

In the same way that genes work together, (flippers and gills) there are memes that work together. The most obvious example where I live (Southern USA) is fundamentalist Christianity. People need hope and fear. This kind of Christianity gives them things to fear (hell, demons, satan worshipers, gays, etc.) and hope (God, Heaven, Angels, Miracles).

Their hope comes from the Bible. Which they believe to be completely true. Since, evolution shows that many parts of Genesis to be nothing more than myth, evolution is bad. Because these people have become their beliefs, they are controlled by them. Like the genes in our bodies, the meme just survives and spreads, it doesn't care about who believes it any more than your hair color does.


I'm not very good at explaining things, and I'm not expert on either of these subjects. If you want to know more about specific things, you could take your questions to occultforums.com (www.occultforums.com)

Here are a few thing you should read if you want to know more.

The Source's has started several threads about both things here, if you want to know more you can start by reading those.
http://toolshed.down.net/opinion/forum/showthread.php?t=21025
http://toolshed.down.net/opinion/forum/showthread.php?t=21021
http://toolshed.down.net/opinion/forum/showthread.php?t=20177

Sorry for rambling so much. Hope I helped.

pathological2
08-07-2005, 05:57 AM
I think the song starts off very negatively. All the way up to "It's calling me". The rest of the song, Maynard remains in the negative, but wants to change ("I pray the light lifts me out before I pine away": "leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical). He craves the positive. So, yeah, you could say it's a negative song. But you could also say it's a very positive song. I guess it's both.

collapsed shell
08-11-2005, 07:37 PM
Thank you, and welcome to TDN.
Sorry for rambling so much. Hope I helped.

had to cut your quote down so as not to take up so much space, but i think you summed it up quite well. i felt pretty familar with the song and still found that "enlighting". so job well done.

Intertwined
08-11-2005, 07:48 PM
That quote is absoultely lovely.

Welcome to the forum Seeker of Matter, hope you enjoy yourself here.

Archetypically
08-11-2005, 10:20 PM
Sorry for rambling so much. Hope I helped.
I thought you did an EXCELLENT job of explaining things. I enjoyed it. I'd like to hear more of your rambling.

Brandon Heat
09-09-2005, 07:19 PM
Sorry for rambling so much. Hope I helped

No need to be sorry i loved ur explination for my personal fav song