saturn returns

[DonnieDarko]

Everyone has heard the phrase "to hold a grudge" which refers to harboring unnecessary negative feelings toward others. In "The Grudge," an insightful view is presented which offers the idea that grudges will get a person nowhere and the person will end up only hurting themselves. The concept of 'saturn returns' involves planetary motion. Once a person reaches roughly age 30, Saturn has completed a full cycle and has returned to the same position it was located when one was born. So, 'saturn returns' is kind of a metaphor for a turning point in one's life. A lot of people reach the realization that they are no longer children when they reach 30. It's kind of a self-evaluation point where you must ask yourself, "have any of my grudges gotten me anywhere?"
Now, the line "give away the stone.....and turn these leaden grudges into gold" is fascinating (aside from the obvious) because it seems to be a reference to alchemy......Any thoughts on alchemy's place in the song?

[Alexander]

so the whole point of the book the scarlet letter wast that hester the main character committed adultery with her priest
she got caught because she got pregnant. she had to wear a scarltet letter "A" on her at all times. eventually by the end of the book the people dont notice the letter anymore and all the children think it meas angel because she's learned not to be ashamed of her past. and to live a good life no matter what people think of you.and eventually everyone let go of their grudge.


the priest however did not get caught and the guilt built up inside of him untill he was going to kill himself.

so the moral of the story is to admit to your faults and wrongdoings and if people can let go of their grudges the world will be a better place

thanks for listening
alex

[JHKeats]

According to Hesiod's "Theogony," and the later "Metamorphoses" of Ovid, creation of the universe is ultimately enabled by the castration of Uranus, the sky, by Cronos (Roman titan Saturn) from within the womb of Gaea, the great Earth Mother. The parents, prior to the castration, are locked in an embrace that guarantees the reign of Uranus. From the castration of the father by his son, Cronos, there is the beginning of a fundamental theme of the son overthrowing the father, and that perpetual process of rebellion marks a separation of elements that enables the creation of the universe to ensue. Similar to his father, Cronus ensures the protection of his dominion over the world by swallowing his children. This act of divine cannibalism hinders the progression of creation upwards and outwards. With his mother's aid, Zeus manages to avoid consumption when Cronus swallows a stone dressed as the newborn. After maturing, the Olympian returns to his father, forces him to spit up his siblings, and effectively takes control of the world. During Cronus' stay in power, there is a "golden age" of man wherein mortals and divinities commune and connect in some mystical experience that somehow is transcendent.
As the story is one of repeated separation of beings and passing off of power from father to son, there is an indication of hope. Via the repeated nature of history man can hope to once again convene with the gods in a second golden age of Cronus. Essentially, it is my feeling that Tool is predicting an ideal state of existence. That state is one of transcendence and a higher level of consciousness. Life is ultimately driven by forces to something fated and real in some sense. I think they offer an explanation of whatever may come in the predicted second golden age. It is seems simply an artistic attempt to somehow symbolize the infinitely indescribable.

[Smokin joe]

really nice analyzation. I love the saturn theories. I've heard like 3 and thought one up myself. Yours so far makes the most (does it?) sense.

joe

[JHKeats]

Joe, I feel it makes sense. I want to be careful by saying that it is not an analysis, but rather a description of litrature that perhaps might help others to give the song meaning if they can't percieve the astrological approach in their emotions. If you have any ideas or perceptions please share. I'm struggling to give the world, and the music it creates, meaning. As of right now, I am trying to recognize the significance of the "scarlet lettermen." In taking the classical literature approach, there is a connection to Eclogue IV of Vergil's Bucolics whereinthe poet says "While clothed in natural scarlet graze the lambs." Connecting this work to the song, Bucolics is a literary attempt to describe the second golden age of Cronus taking place under the reign of Augustus. Moreover, within Eclogue IV, the poet reintroduces the return of Saturn. Joe, help me, can you feel a connection in the song? Once again the members of Tool show their creativity and ingenutiy.

[okkoto]

i think this song is all about the rising value of shares in the saturn car company's stock.

maynard bought for one, and is now selling for ten.

saturn is a great company.