Want your opinions

[tcM_Emperor]

Maynard has stated several times that he hopes that the album Lateralus would inspire Lateral thinking. The last song that we know as "Faaip de Oiad" translates to "Voice of God" in a dead language. The entire album BESIDES Faap de Oiad is semi-hypnotizing and does in a way inspire lateral thinking but then Faap de Oiad breaks it. Do you think he's trying to say something about God/religion? Considering his strong stance on God/religion(listen to Judith by APC). Opinions?

[Orph8998]

not really, maynard has said in an interview, i think you can find it on the APC website that he is a spiritual person. I personaly think that it relates to the qabala. the voice of god will not be what you expected...

[JTCrace]

I agree with Orph8998. The title of the track, along with the content of the track, I think is an attempt to advise people to scrutinize their so-called belief in a God. Because, what if this all-powerful 'God' everyone has been worshipping for thousand of years is some fucked-up, anal-probing, neurosurgical prick?

Currently I am taking a philosophy course called, "Does God Exist?" In it, we are examining different 'proofs' for the existence of 'God.' Even though we have yet to come to an argument that proves beyond a doubt that God exists, there are arguments that make quite a lot of sense. But, what is extremely interesting is that even though these Christian theologians make sense, what they are always unable to strongly prove is that their 'God' is in fact the benevolent Creator they want Him to be. In fact, one could say that the Creator that did create this universe was an asshole and he isn't really around anymore. One can always throw that into the proof and the 'proof' would still work (work in the sense that it is deductively valid, not that the basic premises are true).

I was talking to my instructor one time and he said something that blew my fucking mind. He said there are really only two possibilities: either God is not around anymore or He has really bad taste. Funny, but, kinda sad.

[corps d'allumen]

Excellent post JT.

That song is about a voice that cuts through the noise, however you wish to define 'noise.' When people really understand polyrhythms, esp. like the big big 'one' in the previous song, they'll really understand this segue. When you listen to triad, there are so many rhythms going on it's scary. You can listen to the guitar track, or the drums, or the vocals individually, but to hear them all at the same time you can't listen to just one and reference the other. You have to zone out (disassociation is the correct concept here) and unfocus and listen all at once. That is where the magic is; that's when you truly understand the beauty. You can really tell when you hear it 'right,' rather, your ego disappears; you are no longer trying to understand, you just hear, you just are. And you will know when it's right, like you know when you get those 3d-cross-your-eyes books right. Once you know you can't forget.

Danny Carey, at last fall's drum clinic in Philadelphia, said something to the effect of polyrhytms are everywhere, you just have to listen to them. He said that he hears polyrhytms in everyday noises, like traffic noise. I've understood this for a long time...To get really neurotic, movement is rhythm too; people walking and breathing, trees swaying in the wind, the wipers on the car, etc. Beyond that is the planet, other planets, all the way up to the rest of the universe, which is beyond measure. Everything is locked in one monumental polyrhythm of movement and sound; the rhythm of life. The voice of god is in the empty spaces, between the rhythms; "the spaces betwixt the air itself" to quote disgustipated. There is no 'I' in team, although there is one in ketamine;) I'll leave the rest to the imagination...

"Quit trying to control everything and just let go. Let go!" -Tyler Durden

[JTCrace]

Fucking brilliant. I never thought about the universe in terms of polyrhythms. But I have noticed one particular instance where rhythms are very present: sex. The best polyrythm is the one created by the actual in-and-out of penetration and the one created by looking in your partner's eyes. On one hand there is this tribal, sensual, physical rhythm and then on the other this hi-frequency rhythm from the union of you and his or her stare.

Life is the rhythm to the physical universe. If it wasn't for life, the universe would be a dead silence, not a full, wholesome silence, but the silence of total death. That is the worst ugliness--pure mechanicalness. That is the gnashing of teeth.

There is a contradiction in your post though, corps. You mention something to the effect of one's ego disappearing. And then in the same sentence you say, "you just are." I know there is a lot of talk these days, especially in this corner of the web, about ego-loss and enlightenment. If one uses the game structure to examine life, then it provides some insight into so-called "ego-loss." What if it's not the ego that is being lost in spiritual experiences? What if it is the barriers that the Self finds itself behind that are disappearing? Check this out if your interested: orunla.org/pnohteftu/ch764.html

[corps d'allumen]

I understand how that could be I contradiction, but I do not mean it in that way. Most people I talk to have an odd understanding of the ego. To 'lose your ego' is not to disappear or erradicate yourself, but as you said, it's the self's barriers disappearing. That brings us to the question of 'what barriers?' That was a very cool article you posted... The 'game' is the barrier; judgement is the barrier; trying to control the uncontrollable is the barrier; duality is the barrier; the ego is the barrier. Our duality is what makes us human. I have been way beyond the limits of my body, but not my mind, many times and yet, I have always been there and conscious of it. You still exist without the shell; you exist as an experience of an experience. "Without judgement."

The ketamine reference was on purpose.
I hope this helps clarify my idea:)

[JTCrace]

I definitely understood what you meant, I just wanted to point out the way in which you used the language made it sound contradictory. Barriers are everywhere. It's cool to try and spot them, as you did a little. It's crazy to think about all of the barriers you and I have overcome to be communicating in this manner.

The hallmark of playing games within the physical universe is this: trying to 'find' absolutes in a relative, physical universe. Example: finding absolute love. Love is affinity or a tendency towards union. Can any body ever physically become 'one' with another body? No. But we try don't we? (That reminds me, I need to call my girlfriend).

In a relative universe, two things cannot exist in the same place at the same time. This shows that_every_viewpoint is completely unique. Example: two individuals witness the same car wreck. Even giving that they are standing right next to one another, say, even if they were hugging, they would still see two_different_events: person A saw the expression on the man's face before his head exploded against the windshield; person B did not because of a glare from the sun off of the windshield.

Unfortunately, beings become confused, thinking that the only viewpoint they hold is the one within this walking, talking piece of meat. But in reality beings are holding, concurrently, all sorts of viewpoints at the same time. It also seems possible for two humans to look at one another and see themselves in the other person's viewpoint at the same time. I think it's important for every being to realize that they essentially are not their viewpoints, but that they only have viewpoints. Similar to having a car. I am not my car, but I have one.

The 'ego' is a barrier, you're right. But the 'ego' is a barrier to the 'Ego.' There is this awesome text called "Thunder: Perfect Mind." It can found in the library of Gnostic texts called the "Nag Hammadi Library." A guy named Ed Dawson suggests that this text is a process whereby one realizes that one is not a viewpoint, but only has them. Here is an excerpt from the text:

For I am the first and the last.
I am the honored one and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin.
I am <the mother> and the daughter.
I am the members of my mother.
I am the barren one
and many are her sons.
I am she whose wedding is great,
and I have not taken a husband.
I am the midwife and she who does not bear.
I am the solace of my labor pains.
I am the bride and the bridegroom,
and it is my husband who begot me.

What do all of these viewpoints have in common? In the context of the text: "THEY ARE ALL ME!" Losing the ego is not losing the "I"--it is losing the "i."

[Parabowl]

i think faaip is actually summarising the entire album..

i..dont have alot of time.. um.. formerly employee of area 51...
..grudge.. eon..

recently let go on a medical discharge.. kinda been running across the country ever since..
patient.. mantra..

umm..shit.. i dont know where to begin.. umm.. there extradimensional beings that an earlier precursor of the goverment made contact with..
schism.. parabolas..

something like that... i could be pretty wrong...

think of it as a guy who got really high for the very first time..

[Orph8998]

i think faaip is actually summarising the entire album..

i..dont have alot of time.. um.. formerly employee of area 51...
..grudge.. eon..

recently let go on a medical discharge.. kinda been running across the country ever since..
patient.. mantra..

umm..shit.. i dont know where to begin.. umm.. there extradimensional beings that an earlier precursor of the goverment made contact with..
schism.. parabolas..

something like that... i could be pretty wrong...

think of it as a guy who got really high for the very first time..

...........................
i don't get it

[corps d'allumen]

i think faaip is actually summarising the entire album..

i..dont have alot of time.. um.. formerly employee of area 51...
..grudge.. eon..

recently let go on a medical discharge.. kinda been running across the country ever since..
patient.. mantra..

umm..shit.. i dont know where to begin.. umm.. there extradimensional beings that an earlier precursor of the goverment made contact with..
schism.. parabolas..

something like that... i could be pretty wrong...

think of it as a guy who got really high for the very first time..
I think you just got really high for the very first time:)

No, really, I know what you mean, I think... Nice to hear (err, read) a totally different idea though:)

[whalethesecond]

I definitely understood what you meant, I just wanted to point out the way in which you used the The 'ego' is a barrier, you're right. But the 'ego' is a barrier to the 'Ego.' There is this awesome text called "Thunder: Perfect Mind." It can found in the library of Gnostic texts called the "Nag Hammadi Library." A guy named Ed Dawson suggests that this text is a process whereby one realizes that one is not a viewpoint, but only has them. Here is an excerpt from the text:

For I am the first and the last.
I am the honored one and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin.
I am <the mother> and the daughter.
I am the members of my mother.
I am the barren one
and many are her sons.
I am she whose wedding is great,
and I have not taken a husband.
I am the midwife and she who does not bear.
I am the solace of my labor pains.
I am the bride and the bridegroom,
and it is my husband who begot me.

What do all of these viewpoints have in common? In the context of the text: "THEY ARE ALL ME!" Losing the ego is not losing the "I"--it is losing the "i."



the above poem reminds me of some writing by the argentine writer and philosopher Jorge Luis Borges. You may have read him.

'All men, who in the vertiginous moment of coitus are the same man. All men who repeat a line from Shakespeare are William Shakespeare'

(on the latter, one would of course have to feel the essence of shakespeare in shakespeare to become, not to repeat the words in a hollow manner; indeed many would postulate that this is impossible and this state is a limit, an asymptote as such)

I have been tentatively developing a theory that is a unification of ideas prevalent in ancients like Gotama and Lao Tzu and many moderns like Borges. Basically it follows on from the premises of Nietchze et al that propose the subjectivity of reality - there is no objective reality because we inevitably filter all our experience through our brains that are all structured differently. Hence there is only a multiplicity of subjective realities. But whilst being infinite they can be categorised, and so I can form a model where each being as we know it is not an individual being, but that each MENTAL STATE(there are infinite states) becomes the individual beings, and that we (our souls) are constatnly trasnporting from state to state, being to being etc. Hence empathy, genuine empathy is the state of being in the same body as someone else. If we read life in this way many ignorances will be overcome, for example, again with relationships, whilst with the everyday model of looking at things (using labels to highlight ones position in life) people try to predict what friendships will be based on these criteria. However under a mental states model, assuming that the catalyst, the very defining factor as to 'how 'good' a relationship is' is empathy means that similarity of mental states shows how good a relationship is.
(The beings would be categorised objectively form highest to lowest based on the level of integration. hence the highest being would be 'God' the Perfect Human.