Paradise Lost

[juxtaposed]

Could this song not also pertain to The Temptation of Eve?

Satan tempts with the forbidden fruit...

"Something kinda sad about the way that things have come to be.
Desensitized to everything. What became of subtlety?" ...among other lines.

Just a thought... "from a different angle, under a different light, so we can hopefully kind of see it almost for the first time."

[juxtaposed]

any comments?

[Luna Galapogos]

Could this song not also pertain to The Temptation of Eve?

Satan tempts with the forbidden fruit...

"Something kinda sad about the way that things have come to be.
Desensitized to everything. What became of subtlety?" ...among other lines.

Just a thought... "from a different angle, under a different light, so we can hopefully kind of see it almost for the first time."

I think the result of eating of the forbidden fruit is trying to become desensitized, but I don't think that Maynard was thinking about that at all. I don't think that it really fits in. At least, it doesn't seem to make sense at present. Perhaps if you elaborated on your opinion.

[juxtaposed]

Sure.


"Something has to change.
Un-deniable dilemma.
Boredom's not a burden anyone should bear."

- I believe it is Book IX of Paradise Lost that deals with the temptation of Eve. Adam and Eve are the 'gardeners' in the Garden of Eden. Perhaps they begin to feel jaded or uninterested?

"Constant over stimu-lation numbs me and I wouldn't have it any other way.

It's not enough.
I need more.
Nothing seems to satisfy.
I don't want it.
I just need it.
To feel, to breathe, to know I'm alive."

- ...the apple/knowledge.

"Finger deep within the borderline.
Show me that you love me and that we belong together.
Relax, turn around and take my hand."

- Satan knew that if he could tempt Eve, he could get to Adam.
Man can't resist the will of the woman... - Directly from John Milton.

"I can help you change tired moments into pleasure.
Say the word and we'll be well upon our way.

Blend and balance, pain and comfort; deep within you till you will not have me any other way.

Knuckle deep inside the borderline.
This may hurt a little but it's something you'll get used to.
Relax. Slip away."

- The voice/thoughts of Satan; convincing and petitioning Eve to take the fruit, enticing her with all of the 'benefits' of knowledge.

"Something kinda sad about the way that things have come to be.
Desensitized to everything.
What became of subtlety?"

- The voice/thoughts of God. The loss of innocence, then the 'hardening' from that innocence, just like we have with violence in the media, for example.

"How can it mean anything to me if I really don't feel anything at all?
I'll keep digging till I feel something."

- Man's search for wisdom. Without it, does one feel anything?
However, without wisdom/knowledge, do you even know that you do not possess feeling? Is ignorance bliss?

"Elbow deep inside the borderline.
Show me that you love me and that we belong together.
Shoulder deep within the borderline.
Relax. Turn around and take my hand."

- Adam and Eve take the plunge...


The great thing about Tool is that the lyrics DO mean different things to different people, regardless of how Maynard wrote them.

I hope that I have helped to clarify things.

Hopefully looking at Stinkfist from this angle may make for some interesting conversation.

[Luna Galapogos]

That is really interesting, in fact, it makes a lot of sense as well. hmmm....it is a thought worth consideration. I was never able to make a lot out of this song outside of some basic theories. I like this one. Thanks for your time.

[Mehhico]

Is it just me, or do all 3 of Tools full albums seemingly have references to The Great Deluge, just viewed in different ways or theories/ideas?

They seem have a similar basis, but almost as if the same situation is seen or documented at different stages of their/our evolution. Does that make sense?

Take care,
Andy

[juxtaposed]

Is it just me, or do all 3 of Tools full albums seemingly have references to The Great Deluge, just viewed in different ways or theories/ideas?

They seem have a similar basis, but almost as if the same situation is seen or documented at different stages of their/our evolution. Does that make sense?

Take care,
Andy


I see the connection to ænima, but I do not know the other songs that you are referring to. I believe that there is substantial evidence to your idea, but I am not sure where to look.

By their/our evolution, do you mean Tool's growth and progression corresponding to our learning of their music? Or how we have grown/adjusted to the band? Am I way off?

I look forward to hearing your response.

[Mehhico]

I see the connection to ænima, but I do not know the other songs that you are referring to. I believe that there is substantial evidence to your idea, but I am not sure where to look.

By their/our evolution, do you mean Tool's growth and progression corresponding to our learning of their music? Or how we have grown/adjusted to the band? Am I way off?

I look forward to hearing your response.

Hi juxtaposed,

I have really just tipped my ice-berg of thought, so
these ideas are very preliminary, and as I am sure
some will say, I may be looking too deeply. I shall
proceed, nevertheless.

By the way, none of this is literal, just metaphors
for stages of an individuals development.

On Undertoe, there is the title track which states
“gone under two times. I've been struck dumb by a
voice that speaks from deep beneath the cold black
water.” Is this voice the voice of God, or the
individuals idea of God? Pulling him down? Could be
someone who did not make it up to the next dimensional
level during “a” deluge or pole shift, and had to go
back to the previous one and try again.

“Soon the water will come and claim what is mine. I
must leave it behind, and climb to a new place now.”
(Flood)

Maybe Undertoe speaks from the depths of an ignorant
figure caught up in whatever their brain has attached
itself on (be it a religion, or whatever). They
realise something is happening on a grandiose scale,
but they can’t do anything about it “The ground is
breaking down right under me. Cleanse and purge me in
the water.” It is thought that if one was to fall back
to the previous dimensional level, the change will be
euphoric (Undertoe), as they would move from a
disharmonic level (44&2) to an harmonic level (42&2).

Now Ænima, as so many have said before, starts with
those magical words “Something has to change.
Un-deniable dilemma. Boredom's not a burden Anyone
should bear. Constant over stimu-lation numbs me and I
wouldn't have It any other way.” Think of this as
re-telling the story in Undertoe, but this time, the
individual has a different mind-frame. He realises
something has to change (this time), and wants to do
something about it. But, they are in the level of
choice and technology, which is hard to let go of. We
like and rely on these things way too much on this
level.

The difference with the Ænima story is that there is a
significant progression in the individuals thoughts.
He/she struggles to work out what he/she must do, and
that is to get balance back into their life and iron
out the creases, so to speak. Its psychological, they
have to dig deep into their minds to see what aspects
are negative and keeping them down, so that they can
work with it and reciprocate the negative energy with
positive. Songs such as H., Jimmy, and pushit are
examples of these struggles and realisations.

During the fifth track he begins to understand that
there is more to look forward to if they can progress
to the next level, and they will literally do what it
takes to get there. Moving along to Ænema, which is
self explanatory and then leading into the
re-connection to the 3rd eye.

In comes lateralus. Almost as sacred as Gods voice
itself. This is the more enlightened story (so far).
There is the solid grounds that love and communication
are the common denominators between heaven and earth.
The individual is becoming closer to heaven (4th
dimension?) and almost to the extent that they can
literally hear the voice of God. I have taken the
interpretation RRed gave a while back involving The
Book of Enoch. Yes, it is a re-ordering, yes, it may
well be far-fetched. But me likey very much.

The Grudge seems to be like a message from the
individual to God, asking him to “Give away the stone.
Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and
fated anchor.” But his answer is harsh and obvious:
Ticks and Leeches. I won’t get too much into it, but
Eon Blue Apocalypse may not necessarily be about Adams
dog.

I have just seen this sort of connection and it always
jumps out at me, but I haven’t done too much to pull
all of the pieces together. I might do it sometime,
but this is my starting point. I hope it makes sense
to you.

By the way, this is just an opinion ;)

Take care,
Andy

[Luna Galapogos]

-Mehhico

I think that you make lots of sense. With a little bit of work, I think that could be as much as a faq worthy theory of the connection, it makes a lot of sense.

[Mehhico]

-Mehhico

I think that you make lots of sense. With a little bit of work, I think that could be as much as a faq worthy theory of the connection, it makes a lot of sense.

Wow, and here I was thinking no-one was going read this. I am glad it has made sense, that was my biggest worry, as I tend not to want to bore anyone, so I summarise my posts. The problem with that is I usually don't explain myself very well.

Thanks for the kind words, though.

Take care, and have a great weekend. Shrooms for me ;) yum yum.
Andy

[juxtaposed]

Wow, and here I was thinking no-one was going read this. I am glad it has made sense, that was my biggest worry, as I tend not to want to bore anyone, so I summarise my posts. The problem with that is I usually don't explain myself very well.

Thanks for the kind words, though.

Take care, and have a great weekend. Shrooms for me ;) yum yum.
Andy

Andy,

This is quite an interesting angle! The progression of a message throughout the release of new albums is a very unique idea, one that would be fun to research and check up on. This makes logical sense and I will listen to the albums and look for your theories.

However, does Tool finally arrive at some conclusion; an ending to the story? Will that be their last album? How many more albums would we have to go through, if that was true?

Thank you for sharing and I look forward to hearing your reply.

[CrayonOfDoom]

Hi juxtaposed,

I have really just tipped my ice-berg of thought, so
these ideas are very preliminary, and as I am sure
some will say, I may be looking too deeply. I shall
proceed, nevertheless.

By the way, none of this is literal, just metaphors
for stages of an individuals development.

On Undertoe, there is the title track which states
“gone under two times. I've been struck dumb by a
voice that speaks from deep beneath the cold black
water.” Is this voice the voice of God, or the
individuals idea of God? Pulling him down? Could be
someone who did not make it up to the next dimensional
level during “a” deluge or pole shift, and had to go
back to the previous one and try again.

“Soon the water will come and claim what is mine. I
must leave it behind, and climb to a new place now.”
(Flood)

Maybe Undertoe speaks from the depths of an ignorant
figure caught up in whatever their brain has attached
itself on (be it a religion, or whatever). They
realise something is happening on a grandiose scale,
but they can’t do anything about it “The ground is
breaking down right under me. Cleanse and purge me in
the water.” It is thought that if one was to fall back
to the previous dimensional level, the change will be
euphoric (Undertoe), as they would move from a
disharmonic level (44&2) to an harmonic level (42&2).

Now Ænima, as so many have said before, starts with
those magical words “Something has to change.
Un-deniable dilemma. Boredom's not a burden Anyone
should bear. Constant over stimu-lation numbs me and I
wouldn't have It any other way.” Think of this as
re-telling the story in Undertoe, but this time, the
individual has a different mind-frame. He realises
something has to change (this time), and wants to do
something about it. But, they are in the level of
choice and technology, which is hard to let go of. We
like and rely on these things way too much on this
level.

The difference with the Ænima story is that there is a
significant progression in the individuals thoughts.
He/she struggles to work out what he/she must do, and
that is to get balance back into their life and iron
out the creases, so to speak. Its psychological, they
have to dig deep into their minds to see what aspects
are negative and keeping them down, so that they can
work with it and reciprocate the negative energy with
positive. Songs such as H., Jimmy, and pushit are
examples of these struggles and realisations.

During the fifth track he begins to understand that
there is more to look forward to if they can progress
to the next level, and they will literally do what it
takes to get there. Moving along to Ænema, which is
self explanatory and then leading into the
re-connection to the 3rd eye.

In comes lateralus. Almost as sacred as Gods voice
itself. This is the more enlightened story (so far).
There is the solid grounds that love and communication
are the common denominators between heaven and earth.
The individual is becoming closer to heaven (4th
dimension?) and almost to the extent that they can
literally hear the voice of God. I have taken the
interpretation RRed gave a while back involving The
Book of Enoch. Yes, it is a re-ordering, yes, it may
well be far-fetched. But me likey very much.

The Grudge seems to be like a message from the
individual to God, asking him to “Give away the stone.
Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and
fated anchor.” But his answer is harsh and obvious:
Ticks and Leeches. I won’t get too much into it, but
Eon Blue Apocalypse may not necessarily be about Adams
dog.

I have just seen this sort of connection and it always
jumps out at me, but I haven’t done too much to pull
all of the pieces together. I might do it sometime,
but this is my starting point. I hope it makes sense
to you.

By the way, this is just an opinion ;)

Take care,
Andy


VEWY VEWY GOOOOD!! I am enlightened by having read this!! I was talking to my friend about this the other day, we came to the idea that the albums are as you say, but ours was much much more generalized:

undertow: not so sure we talked much about this one, but i guess we figure it's an album about the outside world, all things worldly i guess, and such i guess.

AEnima: relationships with all of the things mentioned in undertow (pushit?), basically all we said was "its about relationships." <---with (insert whatever here)

Lateralus: seperation of the relationships with all of these things and views shoved down our throats (is that a stretch?), as in, getting rid of "the world" in order to see it from a detached point of view; shed all of that to get to the next level/album, and see things how they really are, starting within him/herself (see next)

NEXT ALBUM: more experimental, and taking place within the 'mind', no world, no opinions, no views on anything; we think it may come as a superbly executed trip into the rabbit hole.
*Keep in mind that when i say "within the mind" i mean within the all, not necessarily within the mind, but rather the "all".*
here is a link for understanding the all, I have heard many explanations of it, but never any as inspiring as these:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat-Number-1427364.html
be sure to read chinacat72's replies, and whiterasta's as well, although they are all very inspiring.


some of that may sound contradicting, but that's ok, i'd have to talk to him about it again to get it figured out better...maybe pm me if you're interested? i can never find my posts the next day....

FOOD FOR THOUGHT:
within that same converstion, we came to the 'cool' conclusion that hooker with a penis is about selling their soul to make a record....no shit huh? well we figure opiate wasn't really them- listen to the difference in music styles, not to mention they sound so much more FREE in later albums, we figure TOOL said something like:

"ok lets make a record that will sell, lets make it sound like any other band, they're making money."

or...

"ok we can't make what we want to, so lets sell out and do what (whoever) says"

so they sold their soul, they went below themselves to make a record like opiate that maybe the record company thought would make money? now that they realize who they are, they said screw that crap, and started making music that reflected on what they thought was appropriate, and then they even made a song about THE WHOLE ORDEAL!!
(not taking anything away from opiate because i do like it :) )


all just thoughts, and where i typed "we came to the conclusion, blah blah blah" please realize that isn't solidified, so if u feel like callign me an idiot, please just scratch that idea and sway my opinion :)

thanks for your time, have a great day.

P.S. Maybe the next album will be about the things that E.T.'s have shown us, hence Faaip De Oaid, and if they are a higher intelligence as is theorized, it is very possible that they could show us how to think of the ALL, at least show it to us.

[juxtaposed]

Good thoughts.

The next album, dealing with the seperation of the mind and body, would truly be a record like no other.

I believe that ALL of Tool's records have been about relationships. Some of this world, some of a higher lever, some of sprituality, some of stimulus and response, etc., but relationships nevertheless.

Body and Material, Body and Mind, Mind and Material, Body and Body....

It will be interesting to see where they will go from here. The stage is certainly set.

[CrayonOfDoom]

Good thoughts.

The next album, dealing with the seperation of the mind and body, would truly be a record like no other.

I believe that ALL of Tool's records have been about relationships. Some of this world, some of a higher lever, some of sprituality, some of stimulus and response, etc., but relationships nevertheless.

Body and Material, Body and Mind, Mind and Material, Body and Body....

It will be interesting to see where they will go from here. The stage is certainly set.


Yes I think I agree, I'm not sure how easy it would be to argue for the idea I set forth, if at all even possible. I think it's like one of those things that when you actually think hard about, you realize it wouldn't work. Anyways, it was fun to think about :)

[Ertai]

i think tool has like a theme or layout they use to create music..... for music like this to come outta no where just seems impossible....or improbalble