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View Full Version : For I have seen Gods face


Noob_Jones
11-19-2002, 07:44 PM
A few hours ago I wrote a post about what Parabola the song ment to me, you can find that post HERE (http://toolshed.down.net/opinion/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74) . I would now like to describe what I belive the Parabola video is about just for the sake of being complete. :) I will not talk about the meaning of the words only that of the image shown.

The video starts off with what looks like small metal rings, I belive this symbolizes the most basic form of matter and how down there we are all alike. It then fades into the Parabol video where we see a man in a black suit who joins two other men at a table. I am not sure who or what the men represent but maybe religion in general? An apple then apears, perhaps the apple from the Tree of Knoledge from the garden of Eden? Within the apple we see a five points star, then a six point star, followed by a seven point star. The five points star could be a Pentacle witch is suppost to represent God. The six point star could be The The Seal of Solomon and the seven point star could be a Septagram, you can find out more about the five, six, and seven point star here http://www.angelfire.com/de2/newconcepts/wicca/sacredspaces.html.

Next up we see one of the men hold up his hands and there is a flame at the tip, now that is abstract! The only meaning I can put behind this is a possible symbolism of how we are made of energy. The three men then float in the air and spew forth a circle of black gew. This could represent how religions spews forth hate and that it is a never ending circle. You can look at the Holy wars or the modern day middle east to see what I am talking about. But that is what you get when you base a religion around fear rather than love ... or the Parabol video could just be about some cool occult stuff that I know nothing about.

Parabola, now we are getting to the good stuff IMO! The video starts off with a cool intro that I belive is nothing more than that. Next we see a man grab a slab of rock and then we see some falling rock shards before the rock is broke ( I will come back to why I think this is). We now see the man set the rock up, I belive this man is suppost to be God and the rock is all the matter in the universe. Next God pushes the rock over and BANG the big bang happens and the universe is set in motion. Now with a blink of Gods eye we see the matter stop and start to float upward and outward to form the universe. Now remember that there was broken shards before the rock hit the ground could this be a sign that before the big bang there was something. Is it possible that the universe is in a cycle of big bangs followed by big crunches to only start all over? Even I belive that I am probably over reading this, speaking of over analyising that leads me to my next point. At 5:05 in the video (if you have the version available on the net thats 10:10 long) you hear MJK sing "Choosing to be here" or in other words understanding you are alive. The image you see at this time is a small being and he looks at the camera and the camera moves up just a little and this seems to give the effect (to myself at least) that the creature understands he is alive! Next we see a face in a tree (great artwork I must say) this seems to be mother nature or the Garden of Eden and we then see God put his hand within the tree and the creature appears. This creature I belive to be man in his perfect form, you know before he let evil into his heart.

Next we see God create the other half evil, negative, the 'bad' emotions or what every you wish to call it. You will notice that it floats, possibly because alone it is harmless it needs someone to cary out its deeds, enter man stage right. Next up evil starts to grow and split I really wish I could figure out why it grows but I am clueless.

Now the video shows how the universe has grown over time it is now a full forest. The trees could represent the galaxies and each leaf a star but that is probably reading into the video a bit much. God is now looking out over his universe with man by his side, he is a little distracted by everything else to focus on man ATM though. So man, who is still in the Garden of Eden (tree off to the right) looks over to the evil ball and goes to see whats going on. Now that was a bad mistake for man to make, what an idiot to let evil into his heart! Well that is the end of perfect man ... he can not exist in a pure form with evil in his heart. Ohh damn it God seems pissed and he yells at the evil, possibly this is him creating hell? Now God tries to save man but it is to late so he wonders out into the universe with evil right behind (as it allways is). God finds a leaf (star) and from it makes mankind woo-hoo! The eye things stop near mans heart to create his emotions and then stop in his head to create his third eye, his ability to think and reason. The eye then leaves mans head and connects man up with whats around him because "we are all one mind" maybe? Next we see man fade and all that is left are some strings. The heterotic string theory states that all matter is basicly made up of strings and that the strings are the most basic form of matter in the universe. This backs up what I think the song means, that we are all made of energy and in that form we are eternal.

cradled
11-20-2002, 07:19 AM
In relation to what you said about the three men in the beginning of the video...

There are many notable things in groups of three. The most relevant ones here are "Father, Son, Holy Ghost", or "Christianity, Judaism, Islam". The latter would tie into what you said about religions always spouting crap. Since the goo is black, perhaps it signifies negativity as well. Is Tricky supposed to be God?

ozmoze
11-20-2002, 04:21 PM
hey about the star... 5, 6, 7...isn't that fibonacci sequence stuff? (which i know close to nothing about). disposition, reflection, triad were supposed to be one song named 5, 6, 7, after all...

Norfleet
11-20-2002, 06:06 PM
The Fibonacci sequence goes something like 1,1,2,3,5,8,13,... on out forever. Lateralus (the song) was origianally titled 987 because it has a beat of 9, followed by a beat of 8, followed by a beat of 7. It just so turns out that 987 is the 16th number in the Fibonacci sequence. Maybe I should have put this under the Lateralus thread, but I saw this here and figured I could shed a bit of light on the subject...

paraflux
11-21-2002, 12:11 PM
I am mostly fascinated, rightfully so, on the last minute of footage. It is just awesome how the eyes go through the body (playfully, but with purpose) and activate the heart chakra and then wander into the third eye. Then of course, the eye tunnel is there, he realizes the matrix, we are all one. Then for the last bit of genious, the perspective shifts from the individual to the whole, still using the man, but the eyes now funnel out through his head not around him.

Parabola is a repeating curve. This would go along with your theory of something "before" the big bang, and that it is a repeating pattern.

ozmoze
11-21-2002, 03:48 PM
oh damn, my mistake...i was way off on that one...sorry

john
11-21-2002, 06:58 PM
noob_jones, if anyone tells you youre reading too much into that, simply laugh. you're brilliant. that and you have too much time on your hands. hehe. jk

john

moonburn
11-21-2002, 08:03 PM
i've only started to analyze the first part of the video. what i have noticed about the video itself is that it is a parabola. it starts in the matrix, goes down into matter and hence human experience and then goes up into what we seem to be referring to as the matrix.
on to the beginning half of the video: what i've gleaned so far is this. five, six and seven pointed stars have a peculiar symbolism. what they symbolize ( to me) are various kinds of perceptual awareness. the first to appear is the five which is in the apple- a symbol of nature. this is pretty self explanatory- when you are being instinctive you are using your muscle memory. muscle memory only recognizes what is in your immediate environment. i.e. four directions. when you stop being instinctive and look into nature (cut the apple open) you see that there is another direction that you've been missing. so now you have five potential vectors of awareness.. you go deeper and you realize that not only is there something operating independent of nature but that it is nature itself (six pointed star is commonly associated with "as above, so below"). the final star- the seven pointed star is a kind of multi dimensional awareness. it's what humans are struggling with right now. you can perceive a fourth dimension by picking a point in space and imagining going into that point. it's interesting that demonologists and faerie shamans recognize this symbol as a gateway symbol to other universes

Noob_Jones
11-22-2002, 09:37 AM
Great views moonburn you have helped open my eyes :)

Geminikon
11-23-2002, 02:09 PM
couldthe three men spinning around the table be an example of a three pointed star? and possibly the table could be a one pointed star (if you really wanted it to be). Is there even such a thing as a three pointed star?

TheHollow
11-24-2002, 10:36 AM
here's my 2 cents worth....

From the point Tricky lights the leaf on fire and on, it simply shows the path to Enlightenment. The leaf is lit through his Lau Kung the secondary chakras, located in the middle of the palm. Then it drops ablaze and splits into two eyes. A red one and a blue one. The red one is yang ch'i, and the blue one if yim ch'i. They "enter" his body through the yong chuan secondary chakras, in the middle of the foot, and "spiral up", to join first on the hui yin chakra, then the dantien, navel, solar plexus, throat, third eye and finally the ba hui chakra. The crown chakra. The chakra that leads to enlightenment.

Then he becomes one with the universe...

Squeak
11-26-2002, 06:05 AM
An interesting thing you guys might want to know about. I was looking through 'The Mission of Art' by Alex Grey when what should I encounter? Our mysterious, glowing network, or the matrix as we call it. It's a work of Grey's titled 'Universal Mind Lattice', it's from a vision he had while on an extreme LSD trip. What I can gather so far is that it's exactly what it says, the joining of all the minds in existence. Also, the transparent figure with the multiple lights and flowers and chakras show up repeatedly in his works, but I have yet to get far enough into the book to decipher their meaning.

juliette
11-26-2002, 03:49 PM
Some of these ideas really make sense to me.

A4Ever
11-28-2002, 08:15 AM
...Evil was accidently created, cause Good can only exist in relation to something else.

...God realises that he can no longer exclude evil from his creation. The grey blob will always attack that what is only Good. Seeing the two parts of his perfect creature, he gets an idea and in a Final Act of Goodness, he allows Good and Evil to enter his body. After that, he recreates reality, which now consists of Good and Evil, tangled together in a web of infinite possiblities...

Peace.

Jason Sider
12-01-2002, 02:04 PM
I don't get anything being discussed here :( Maybe if i was a bit older I'd understand the meaning of all these tool videos, and songs. People seem to disect them so much. All these religonal sayings and math equations, blow my 16 year old mind. Where did all of you learn about alchemy and these pentagrams. One thing I did notice though that the men cutting the apple, look like rabbia's (or how ever you spell jewish religon leaders) Anyone have any books or websites that can help explain these ideas to me?

A4Ever
12-02-2002, 05:13 AM
www.crystalinks.com

www.philosophyforums.com

www.spiritweb.com

Dissonance
12-06-2002, 03:12 PM
Someone mentioned that Good cant exist without evil.

I'd like to refute that, if I may.

I think when people say that, they mistakenly see Good and Evil on a sort of line or spectrum. Like:


Evil <-------------|------------> Good

If that were the case, they would have a point. Good wouldnt have any meaning without evil to counterbalance.

However, i believe the notion of Good and Evil have more to do with distance than balance.

I believe in the Natural Law. Think about this: In every culture that has ever existed, it has always been and will always be evil to torture babies for fun. Agreed? That is an evil thing. The reason this is so universal is because there is a law written on human hearts that says so.

Thinks of the good things in life: loving one another, followship, beauty, etc.

As humans, we know from within that these are good. This is the Natural Law (which I believe was created by God, but thats not the point).

What I'm getting at is that Good and Evil is a measure of how obeying natural law. The closer things are to the Natural Law, the more good they are. The farther away they are, the more evil they all.

As such, you don't need evil. If we all existed solely in the natural law, it would be Good, and we wouldnt need anything to tell us that.


So its more like


Natural Law Good <---------------- Evil


see what I mean? and no matter how much evil you get rid of, Good remains always as Good is it has always been.

TheHollow
12-06-2002, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Dissonance

and no matter how much evil you get rid of, Good remains always as Good is it has always been.

Good thinking. HOWEVAH! I think you NEED to have evil, in order to make the comparison on what's more or less good. You need to have good, to see how evil something is.

Think more in terms of: "I know the pieces fit, cause I've watched them fall away".

A4Ever
12-07-2002, 04:11 AM
Torturing babies for fun is not acceptable, but there could be another reason than that it is part of the Natural Law written in our hearts.

If we don't torture babies, it is more likely that our babies will not be tortured. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. So refreigning from hurting a baby can not automaticly be qualified as 'good'.

Is there a way to think differently about this? Cause I don't like the idea of universal selfishness and survival of the fittest.

moonburn
12-07-2002, 05:30 AM
i think that it's a matter of common sense. it's not a matter of some ingrained mystical law- we don't like seeing babies being tortured because we have empathy. we are social creatures and we usually don't like seeing our own killed because we feel their pain in some way. and it all depends on what we consider "our own." for thousands of years babies of slave families have been tortured just for fun. all sorts of cultures would set a baby on a hilltop to die if it was deformed. even the inuit of alaska would kill their babies if there wasn't enough food around. we don't mind killing other animals or their babies. Natural law is just a last ditch effort of trying to dematerialize morality.
As for the good and evil argument i have this to say. i don't believe in good and evil. for me there are those things that would hurt that which i love and care for and those that won't. and when i say care for, that's it. it's all about harming those that YOU care about. Not those things that you have no real love for. i.e.- killing babies. i'm sure that the mother of the baby would be more upset than a person seeing it on the news. this is because she has a genuine love for it and can't change the channel. The person watching the news broadcast might be angry but not because THAT baby was killed. In his/her mind A BABY was killed and all that will happen is a little speech about how society is getting out of control and he/she'll forget about it the next day.

But that's just my opinion.

Blodi44
12-14-2002, 08:56 AM
An interesting idea (not mine) my friend said that the three men spewing out goo reminded him of politics and how corrupt they are and how all they speak is lies, which would be the goo. Here are my thoughts on the good-evil issue taken from Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Good and evil only exist within our minds. What is good and what is bad is only an opinion and varies from person to person. Humans established the word "good" and "evil" but still the definition varies from person to person. A good example of this is the holocaust. If Hitler succeeded he would be regarded as good now, not evil. Overall, in my opinion, good and evil only exist within our minds and there is no balance between them

shade13
12-14-2002, 12:05 PM
I agree with dissonance that, to a certain point, everything is good. Even Evil. Evil is merely a matter of perspective.
To me, the only true evil in the world, are lies. Like the ones the government tells us to believe. Or all those people who speak simply to be heard, even though they have nothing worthwhile to say. Lying to yourself is of the utmost evil.
I see life in such a way, that everything here is good. Even the blah boring days where you just want to sit around and be lazy. If you didn't have the boring days, you couldn't have the stupendous days where everything just falls into place.

flipmojo
12-14-2002, 12:28 PM
This is for Jason...

Don't get caught up in their over-analyzing. Allow Tool's music to really inspire you and don't become caught up in the excessive, disecting tornado that many Tool fans seem to be in. Listen with your heart.

I meant no offense to anyone.

Bisquick
01-08-2003, 08:59 PM
According to the Kabbalistic Tree of Life the 6 pointed star represents Knowledge, Im not too sure on the other ones, but the 7 pointed star is related to the enneagram i think, which is on the front page of ToolBand.com, and if you were real observant during the last tour the light scaffolds were arranged in the 7 pointed star shape.

nietzschepants
01-10-2003, 06:31 PM
first, on a personal note, suppose this about good and evil. imagine an xy coordinate axis, in which we have four axial extremes. on two connected extremes, we have good and evil. on the other axis, we have advantage and disadvantage. now, this plane is completely relative. whatever lies at whatever point on the plane is completely determined by the action taker/observer, who resides at (you guessed it) the origin. it is impossible for any object or action to have an intrinsic value, one must be imparted by an observer. think of the whole "tree in a forest" scenario. or, if you are a hardcore nerd, the "motion without a reference point" scenario. now, onto the original post, the growing of the black ball mirrors cellular mitosis. more specifically; the mitosis that occurs when a zygote transforms into a blastocyst during the development of a fetus. these neagtive thoughts could be growing into a life of their own, but instead of terminating in life (positive, biological blastocyst) the nega-ball terminates in the death of mr. rattle-face. i need to think into this some more, additional thoughts would be most helpful.

Bisquick
01-15-2003, 08:25 AM
ok, nietzschepants, i love your name. Nietzsche was wicked crazy, but a great philosopher, just good fun reading.