MJK is a freaking genius!

[Theodagoth]

Lately, i decided to start writing lyrics in hopes to be a singer in a band. I have have Maynard to thank for it. I was originally going to be a guitarist or drummer, but i suck at guitar, and drum equipment is so dman expensive plus finding a drummer around where i live is easy. Anway, I have been reveiwing all of Tools songs by listening and by reading lyrics. It just boggles the mind! How does he do it? Maynard puts these lyrics together and makes it look like its easier than riding a bike. I envy him for his ability at this. I also like to write, so I am good in that field, but lyrics have to be short and sometimes evasive so normal writing techniques do not help. Does anyone out there have any advice on writing song lyrics? I'd love to hear any advice as long as it's not about killing some cat with M-80's or something, bands have already done that. TOOL is genius.

[tainednarf1014]

Believe me I've tried to wirte lyrics that were a fraction of the genius in MJK's but failed every time. I think one of the reasons for his more intellectual and metaphorical lyric style is a result of his age. He's no grandmpa but he is older than most singers rock bands around. I saw his military academy picture and it was dated 1983 thats 20 years ago. He had to be at least seventeen. I wish there were more lyricist who write close to the way Maynard does. The only two people I can think of are on the opposite polar extremes style wise. Bob Dylan and John Lennon are the only people I can think of. I would love to see MJK write a book. He's got the writing skills. I wish I could talk too him about his writing process and how he draws his inspiration. If anyone knows of an interview with this topic in it please let me know.

I am also, like you, a lead singer and songwriter in a group. It's a very tedious job writing songs. The only thing I can suggest is to read alot and write alot. I write everyday even if its not a song and I read everyday to. Its the best way to learn and get inspiration. I also Suggest to stay away from T.V., Its poison and it will surely suck you into the commercialized music we here today. Watch "Bowling For Columbine". It changed my view on alot of things. Oh yeah and be yourself don't try to copy or follow rules. Just set your own. When I first started writing and singing I noticed overtime how much my work sounded like maynards. I was always trying to obscure my words with metaphors only I would understand and I subconsiously tried to sing like maynard too. I wouldnt realize it until I heard the recorded version but once I did I had to pull myself away from the copycat syndrome. It wasnt easy believe me.

[RRed]

Fellow Comrades... I diffinately relate to your admiration of MR Maynard.. he is a very gifted person indeed.... and I agree his age and experience can be seen in his recent writings and songs.. An interesting thing is to listen to the progression of the music and lyrics from Opaite to Lateralus and you will see a lot maturing and growing in the music.. I mean Danney is and was an unreal drumming back in ther earlier days but I have to say Lateralus is a drumming monument.. really he continues to experiment and progress with his instrument.

Anyhow, as far as righting songs there are an infinite amount of ways to right songs.. or just stuff in general.. I would agree that writing on a regular basis is very important.. practice makes perfect.. Free Asociation writing is good as well because it shows you in retrospect your pattern of 'instinctual' thought and that is very important..

But as far as songs go.. for me.. it is important to hear the note progressions first.. if possible.. When I say this I mean.. hum the notes that make sense to you even before the words come to you because there is a certain degree 'rightness' or an appropriate and fitting arrangement of notes that need to 'make sense' so to speak. Think of your voice not just as an expression of words but as an insturment first.. that is very Key.. And in conjunction to this.. find the emotional connection with these progressions... An example for me would be the ending to Reflection.. not only are the words very moving.. but the notes and progression of these notes are very moving to me.. Remember.. music in its essence is pure prestine emotion.. that is very important to remember.. because if you gonna go on stage and sing about 'such and such', you got to make it worth it to you to sing in front of these people.. especially if it's gonna be on a regular basis..

Another idea that I typically do.. and always have a pen and pad where ever you go cuz some of the best songs 'approach' you in the most unconventional circumstances.. but what I was saying is right down the titles of songs that you would like to right... kinda like a thesis so to speak.. and now just because you've come up with a title doesn't mean you have to right the song right there... 'let it come to you'... thats another thing to keep in mind.. if at all possible.. don't force your expression.. be more of an medium to your expression and emtotion ant that's why I said always have a pen and pad ready... And on the lines of 'letting come to you' if you do have a vagrant moment of clarity where you're able to catch those emotions on paper, if you hit a road block.. let it be.. things grow and become complete when they need to... think of your expression, your music as a living thing.. Now back to the wrting down the titles... it gives you dirrection when you do find the perfect time to sit down and right that song..

Don't get me wrong.. some of these methods seem like I'm putting things into boxes.. and it is to a certain extenxt.. but thats why I have several of my 'own' boxes to place things in.. and you just need to define your 'boxes' as well.

Another thing, and I can't express this any more strongly but always have a pen and pad.... For me often times, in conjunction with the titles that I right down often times a chorus will come to me.. often thats how I right alot of my songs... but the churus comes but the rest of the song doesn't.... 'let it be'.. it will return to you if it's meant to be..

Some other stuff to think about is the idea of writing a song with out the music and conversely writing a song to the music.. both of these should be explored.. right now I'm really focussing on writing to the music because I have a tendency to right before the music which is fine.. I'm just switching things up a bit... And along these lines is the importance to be involved in the song writing process with the band.. remember think of your voice as a insturment.. and this will begin to make sense...

Lastly.. don't be afraind if things change or don't make sense any longer... 'let it be'.. if you need to start over just start over.. if you need to alter it... do it... if you need to throw it away, do it... it was meant to be.. Connect with your music and make that your objective.. for me.. it is important to make my music a healing experience and empowering experience for my self.. and I say this because I would play music and continue to write music for the rest of my life and be happy if the only people that hear it are my self and my band mates.. cuz its important to me as my own form of 'medicine' that balances me out.. and as always explore the world.. challenge your self to explore things that interest you that spark intrigue that tugs on the emotional strings of your heart and it that is done it will always translate to emotionaly charged and 'true' music.. and let your self think.. I like driving around and listening to music even if I really don't have any where to go imparticular.. go on walks, or do what ever it is that evokes stimulus or emotions..

Your music is your challenge.. remember that... challenge, to keep it as a vulnerable extension of your self.. your heart.. especially as a singer...

Have fun
peace

RRed

[Theodagoth]

Thank you for your input guys and tainednarf i do read a lot and write a lot. I plan to be a novelist. Songwriting is just one aspect of the writing field. Maynards age does have a lot to do with it, and im not trying to be him, im trying to build off of him. It's diffusion, it is almost impossible to be an innovator of music nowadays so im forced to build an even better style. I do watch TV, but very rarely. I do not get into todays music, in fact the only modern band i like is TOOL and they are not even that modern. I could say a few others i like but not nearly as much. I dont try to sing like maynard either, just dont have the voice for it. I just want to know how he gets his mysteriousness in the music. Thank you again for the input. Also Maynard was born in 1964, so he is about 40. Give or take a year. Maynard isnt his real name either.

[Talonwulf]

I have to admit I can right amazing lyrics, poems and can get good tunes going in my head. On my guitar, I can make a song JUST like that, split second stuff [in other wrds i can make up as i go along and it sounds "proper"]. Ive also always been complimented on my stories i do at school. Once it was sent to the head teacher and sent for all the teachers to read. I'm not lieing here, im being honest. [I bet i sound like such a showoff or butt sucker but tis true]

One problem. I cant fucking sing! AAARGH! I cant sing and i hate it! If only i could express my words, ideas and songs using a great voice.... I have such low charisma!

I practice a lot, and still, my voice sounds pathetic and unclear. Alos, my chances of getting into a band is very slim. No one where i live likes my style of music. They all into punk [they think theyre cool but little do they know punk is the lamest thing since pop]. It blows...

[tainednarf1014]

[One problem. I cant fucking sing! AAARGH! I cant sing and i hate it! If only i could express my words, ideas and songs using a great voice.... I have such low charisma!]

First I want to reply to the original posters 2nd post. I wasn't saying that you do try to sound like Maynard I was just warning you on how easy it is to fall into that kind of trap. I've done it before and I can think of about 20 bands that are famous right now who do it. [Puddle Of Mudd:Nirvana]. Just incase you took what I said in the wrong context. I wasn't trying to put you down in anyway I was only offering advice I wish I was given when I first started. RRed you added alot of valuable tips I left out. Thanks. Pen and a little pocket note book are a must for a songwriter on the go. My biggest trouble is remembering the melody I write the song in So I carry a little $15.00 recorder around with me.

last but not least talongwolf. You can get by with an alright voice. Everyone lead singer uses effects on there voice {Yes even Maynard. Check the article section of this page and look at the lateralus 2002 setup maynard uses distortion delay reverb and chorus on his voice. It doesnt mean he cant sing its just a way to do thing with your voice you cant normaly do.

[RRed]

Well as far as singing... and not feeling like you can... the thing is we all can sing.. its just becomes a little frustrating when you start comparing... The basics in regards to singing is holding a note.... in reality that's really it... I think the best way to 'find' your voice is by try to make voices... Mimic cartoon characters, mimic actors.. mimic what ever... I mean if you hear the vaccum on, try to mimic that tone and note.. it sounds stupid but it difinately works... and don't be afraid... scream, yell, wisper, sing like a girl.. what ever.. singing is all about being vulnerable..with out fear at least for the time being, and really connect with your emotions.. A good excersize is humming.. finding that middle tone in which you feel you can reach higher in pitch as well as lower... This, over time, will become your 'home row' when it comes to singing.. Another method is taking in the biggest breath you can and letting it out in a tone... a moderately low tone... it will get you acclimated to you voice... it will help you 'find your voice'.... and really listen to your self... if possible record.. record even the stupid stuff... thats also a good way of learning..

As far as TV goes... it depends... I don't watch much TV but the stuff I do watch... well I watch the news because it pisses me off... it gives me good ideas too... and even if you do get 'sucked in'... no biggy it just gives you a good position to discribe the monotonous bullshit that TV perpetuates..

RRed

[Talonwulf]

Ive tried different "styles" of voice. Kurt Cobain, Maynard [that was a laugh], James hettfield, so on. None really fitted in. The best sounding one was liek the dude out of motorhead, but that aint the style of music im wanting :P

I cant really hold a note very well, but i can make it "flow". Can u get surgery to get a better voice? lol

[RRed]

You know what I would try... is just try to yell as loud as you can... try to make it guteral though... kinda like pushing air.... sometimes that willl losen thing up a bit... As far a singing sometimes its good to find that singer that you can 'copy' so to speak but it just gives you tone.. sorta... kinda like when a singer warms up with a piano or something... Just keep trying and if its to frustrating, move to another form of expression... You if you're really serious you could investigate voice training. Just go a few times and if you feel it is working continue if not move on..... I've been doing alot of sampling and shit and tweeking out the wave forms of voices in dialogue and vocoding them and shit and it is so fun... and the cool thing is I can still get my point across with out singing.. but that's just a little hobby of mine..

RRed

[Madklikor]

I'm in the same case as you talonwulf. I'm a pretty good writer and musician, but when it comes to singing... well, I tried different style of singing, I took lessons (classical singing, which were definitively an improvement)... but I have come to a point where I had to admit it : I am not made to sing. I sing in tune, but my voice... argh, if I try to be honest and objective with myself, it isn't good. Not terrible, but not good... there are tons of people who can sing better than me. I can't change my voice, and I guess everyone can sing, but not everyone can sing "well". Actually my teacher was honest with me, she said that I had potential but it would take me years years to come to something ok... so I decided to let sing those who have a natural gift (lucky bastard, they get all the girls). I'm good at others things, so I now try to work what I'm doing best.

[RRed]

YOu know... thats really the best way to look at it... try it out and try your best but be honest with your self... singing is over rated to a certain extent... thats why I think TOol is so cool because the instruments portray and translate the same emotion that the lyrics do and vice versa... so just find your niche... experiment with all methods of expression and you'll find something that is attuned to you... Good Luck.. experimenting is so fun too

RRed

[Theodagoth]

hey cool more replies,

anyway Talonwulf I am in your same position with one slight twist. I can sing well, but i cant write lyrics i want. I can write badass lyrics in other people's eyes but i judt dont like what i write. Stories and poems wise, my teachers love me because of it. And i did get in a band as the singer woohoo! Sorry if i took what you said the wrong way tained narf, i was just kinda going out on a limb with it. I can say one thing, when i sing i dont sound like Maynard, or Kurt, or anyone I have really heard. I still like the sound though, its original exacelty what i wanted. I wouldnt have even known my voice if not for Maynard's singing to inspire me. If my band is ever famous he is the one to get the most thanks.

[INNER_STRUGGLE]

I write alot of poetry and I love to write, but I find it extremely difficult to write lyrics. Much props to all of you who can even come close to write from a lyrical point of view.